Episode 973 - Teaching to the Test
In this episode, Jeremy and Andrew discuss teaching to the test and what that means.
Teaching to the Test - Episode 973
SUMMARY
In this episode, Jeremy and Andrew delve into the concept of 'teaching to the test' within martial arts education. They explore the implications of standardized testing, the challenges of curriculum size, and the importance of fostering genuine understanding over mere memorization. The conversation emphasizes the need for creative teaching methods and the balance between evaluating competency and ensuring students grasp the material deeply. Ultimately, they encourage instructors to reflect on their teaching practices and curriculum design to enhance student learning and growth.
TAKEAWAYS
Teaching to the test often leads to memorization rather than understanding.
Standardized testing can create pressure on teachers to prioritize test results.
In martial arts, the test is often determined by the same person creating the curriculum.
A simplified curriculum can help focus on essential skills.
Quality over quantity in curriculum is crucial for effective learning.
Creative teaching methods can enhance student engagement and understanding.
Evaluating competency should go beyond just passing a test.
Students should not have to cram to meet testing requirements.
Bonus material can enrich the learning experience without overwhelming students.
Instructors should regularly assess their curriculum and teaching methods for effectiveness.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction to Teaching to the Test
10:40 Curriculum Size and Student Understanding
16:18 Creative Teaching Methods
21:29 Evaluating Competency Beyond Memorization
After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it.
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Show Transcript
Jeremy (01:27.535)
What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Wizarding in Paradise Radio. My name's Jeremy. I'm joined by my good friend Andrew Adams and we are here to talk to you about martial arts specifically teaching to the test.
Andrew Adams (01:46.776)
What's happening?
Jeremy (01:47.909)
This is a subject that came up a few episodes ago and we're going to go deeper into this. If you're new to what we do, please visit whistlekickmartialartsradio.com for all the things that we do on this show. This, the number one traditional martial arts podcast in the world, as well as whistlekick.com. We are here to support you, the traditional martial artists, whatever you train, wherever you train, why, how, when ever you train.
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at all the places that seem to make sense. So, Andrew, teaching to the test. When I hear this phrase, I think of high school. I think of this very simplistic...
Jeremy (03:02.699)
formula that a number of my teachers had, which was they knew what was going to be on the test. They would reverse engineer the test and make sure we learned that material and only that material. And it was really an expectation of memorization, less so than understanding. And I hate it.
Andrew Adams (03:27.296)
memorization, not retention.
Jeremy (03:30.255)
Yeah.
Yeah. Read, write, regurgitate.
Andrew Adams (03:34.136)
Yep. Yep. Yep. And I think that's fairly common in schools these days.
Jeremy (03:41.221)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's been a little while since you and I have been in high school, but I don't think it's changed because it was in place before us, right? But it seems like it's gotten worse, right? Because how do you evaluate the quality of a teacher?
Standardized testing is a big component of that. And if you know that your job depends on a certain metric that comes out of that test, it's only natural that you're going to prioritize the results of that test in lieu of other evaluation criteria. But that doesn't just happen in an English class or a science class or a Latin class.
Andrew Adams (04:04.194)
Yep.
Andrew Adams (04:18.178)
Yep. Yep.
Jeremy (04:29.079)
It often happens in martial arts classes, but there's a different aspect here. And that is that in most cases, the test is determined by the same person determining the curriculum and the lesson plans. So it becomes a little bit more complicated of a discussion.
Andrew Adams (04:47.362)
Yep, exactly.
Yeah, yeah, that person in the school system is often, depending on the curriculum, depending on the class, is not coming up with the curriculum that they're going to be teaching or they have a broad understanding. You know, like I could see in an English class, for example, they might have some say in terms of what books are going to read and whatever, but when you have a test at the end that is going to be on this, this, this, this, this,
they have to make sure that they teach this, this, this, this, and this so that when the students take the test, they can answer those questions correctly.
Jeremy (05:32.539)
So when we use the phrase teaching to the test, I think a lot of people have an immediate negative connotation. Admittedly, I do too. When we pose this question, should a martial arts school be teaching to the test, I become resistant right off the bat. But I don't know that I should. I don't know that it's fair. And maybe it's because of
my experience with that in public school.
Andrew Adams (06:05.624)
Sure, and that makes sense and and I get it I I Get it gets my hackles raised a little bit. So I understand where you're coming from
Jeremy (06:16.265)
If, and what's really interesting about this, we've talked a bit over the last year and a half about my martial arts school and some of the things that I'm doing differently. And one of them, for example, is I have a dramatically simplified curriculum.
Are there plenty of things that my students are going to learn that I do not evaluate them on? Yes.
Jeremy (06:48.731)
Does that mean I don't care if they learn them? No.
Jeremy (06:57.093)
For me, our testing is based on determining their competency of the most important things, the things I will not compromise on, the things that I believe if they check those boxes, other things that can be a lot more individualized are possible.
Jeremy (07:25.839)
So do I teach to the test? Yeah, I do. Because the curriculum was developed in such a way that the test is basically the curriculum.
Andrew Adams (07:45.676)
make the argument that in many schools that might not be the case.
Jeremy (07:52.134)
I think in many, even most, I don't know if I wanna say most, in many schools curriculum is this big and to properly evaluate that material would take longer than the test is permitted to be. So it's either simplification or random.
Andrew Adams (07:59.522)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (08:08.334)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Jeremy (08:11.855)
Now if it's random, it becomes really hard to teach to the test.
Andrew Adams (08:16.941)
Yep. Yep.
Jeremy (08:18.907)
But if you know what's on the test and testing is coming.
and you are prioritizing test elements over things that outside of testing you would say are equally important, I think that's a problem.
Andrew Adams (08:36.834)
Yeah, I think the place where I experience it is schools where, and I've seen this in a multitude of schools where you'll go to class for months and you'll work, you'll not lurk. You will work. So lurk was a combination of learn and work. put them together. Sorry. So you'll work on maybe.
Jeremy (08:53.019)
Hopefully you're not lurking at schools.
Andrew Adams (09:03.886)
You forms applications or techniques on this or that or the other thing and then test is coming up in two weeks. Okay, we gotta get basics Let's do blocks and blocks and blocks and and blocks. No strikes We're gonna do them in this order because the school does them in that certain order and you have to demonstrate them that way and Then you get to the test and those are the things you show but for the last two and a half months you've worked on forms applications or these other techniques and those things aren't even on the test but the test is coming up so for two weeks you work on
the test and then the test is over and okay, let's go back to the forms applications and techniques and things.
Jeremy (09:41.801)
What that makes me think when you talk about that is that the instructor is disconnected from the curriculum. They don't believe the curriculum is a direct reflection over what they feel is most important for those students at that stage in their education.
Andrew Adams (10:00.482)
Yeah Yeah, yep, and I will admit I have been a victim I've been a victim of this I've been the student and I have been the teacher that is like, shoot I This is testing month and you know, it wasn't my school. I didn't run the school, but I was one of the instructors Excuse me, and I was like I gotta get I want to make sure that these students look good for sensei Let let's start working on stuff that
Jeremy (10:02.289)
And that's a problem.
Andrew Adams (10:28.934)
I know is going to be on the test. And I feel bad about that. it shouldn't take there being a test to work on those things. things should be an ongoing thing.
Jeremy (10:40.975)
Right. I think for a lot of schools, the problem comes in, in that the curriculum is far too large. There are a lot of schools out there that as soon as they come up with some good stuff, it becomes a requirement. And that's a problem because everything can't be in the curriculum. And here's why everything can't be in the curriculum. Because the more you ask people to know, the less well they will know any one thing.
Andrew Adams (11:10.862)
Absolutely.
Jeremy (11:11.479)
That is a fact. If you expect that by adding material to your curriculum means your students are going to spend additional time training on their own, you are sorely mistaken. They have a finite amount of time they're going to invest in their training, both at home and in class. And the more material you ask them to learn, the more diluted their time is on any of those specifics.
Andrew Adams (11:22.188)
Yeah. mean, how many
Andrew Adams (11:33.976)
Correct. How many people have heard the quality over quantity?
This is the perfect example.
Jeremy (11:44.025)
Now, it's interesting because when you go back to the writings of many of the founders of various styles that we have today, they preached this. Funakoshi said, you need three katas.
Andrew Adams (11:57.294)
Yeah, but then he put that but the show comes got 26 kata's in their system. Yeah. Yeah
Jeremy (12:01.521)
And that's my point, right? There's a disconnect in there. And if you talk to most people that have been training a long time, know, 30, 40, 50, 60 years, they tend to agree. Doesn't mean they don't like forms. Doesn't mean they don't know dozens of them. Do they need that many? Do you need 400 ways to respond to a straight punch? You don't need them, right? What...
Andrew Adams (12:18.166)
Yeah, yeah, sure.
Andrew Adams (12:27.982)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (12:30.213)
When I started my school, I worked backwards from the question, what is most important for my students to know at any given stage? What is a great yellow belt look like? What skills do they have? What is most important? And if it wasn't that top tier of importance, it either got bumped up to blue belt or thrown away.
Jeremy (12:57.53)
And I have a...
rotation of concepts that we teach and a rotation of material. It's not quite a rotating curriculum, but it's similar and it has worked really well because they get to focus on things. Now, sometimes that plethora of material comes in because instructors don't know how to make the same material fun.
Andrew Adams (13:26.859)
Yeah, yep, that's fair.
Jeremy (13:27.537)
They only know one way to teach it and it becomes boring. So they're like, all right, gotta come up with, I gotta give them something else. Or maybe you just need to be a little more creative in how you present that material.
Andrew Adams (13:39.33)
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And one of the things we talked about last week is having a different teacher because they teach things a different way. That's a skill you can learn is how to teach the same thing different ways. Like here's a perfect example. Teaching down blocks, right? And this is something I haven't necessarily done in an adult class, but in a kid's class.
Yep, they're practicing down blocks. Great. Turn to the side. Okay, great. It's different because we're facing a different direction. Lay on the floor, facing up. You're staring at the ceiling. Now you're doing down blocks, right? You're, they're still practicing down blocks, but it's a different way of teaching the same thing. Carry that over to other things. Maybe I'm not saying do everything laying on the floor, but find different ways of teaching the same thing so that
you don't have to find 45 things to practice. You can practice 20 things in 45 different ways as an example.
Jeremy (14:42.642)
I could, you've done this, I could make a whole class out of teaching that one block. I'm not going to because that's not gonna move my students forward at the rate and in the way that I want them to move forward. But if we're just talking about enjoyment, I could come up with an hour long class that was just low blocks.
Andrew Adams (15:03.964)
Yep, absolutely.
Jeremy (15:04.623)
conditioning, standing in place, laying down, moving around, moving on command, stepping backwards and doing it. One person steps in and throws a low block. You could think of it as a hammer fist. The other steps back and blocks it with a low block, right? What if low block isn't exactly low? What if it's mid-level? What if it's head level? What if we're using it as one step or three steps sparring, right?
Andrew Adams (15:20.323)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (15:33.061)
There are so many things that we can do with that one technique that can make it exciting and different. And in fact, I would argue that most instructors throw too much material in, they dilute out the brilliance of that one technique or that one form or that one whatever by asking students to learn too much. so students don't get
Andrew Adams (15:57.762)
Yep. Yep.
Jeremy (16:02.649)
the nuance, the depth that they really could, the detail in that technique or form or whatever.
Andrew Adams (16:09.484)
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So learning multiple ways to do the same thing is a great teaching tool for sure.
Jeremy (16:18.467)
Now does that mean every one of those ways to do that have to be evaluated on the test?
Andrew Adams (16:25.335)
No.
Jeremy (16:27.215)
I would say for most, let's say, take Black Belt for example, right? Because most schools have a, even though they implement it differently, a Black Belt generally means you know this thing, right? Whatever material is taught to you prior to Black Belt, you're usually expected to know it and know it well. So if we continue that example of low block.
Jeremy (16:52.731)
Does that student, that black belt candidate need to go through an hour long black, a downward block class to prove that they have a good understanding of a downward block?
Andrew Adams (17:10.06)
Not necessarily.
Jeremy (17:10.617)
No, no. Could they, if they've been through that, that downward block class once or twice at some point in the last few years, could they on the fly be asked, hey, do this with your downward block? How many people out there who've been training a while have never done a downward block while laying on their back and can imagine what that feels like and they can imagine, okay.
Andrew Adams (17:27.822)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (17:40.003)
So I'm gonna lose, I don't really have the ability to rotate with that. That's gonna feel a little funny. The balance of my hand, it's probably gonna drift up, right? Like I've never done that, but I can imagine what that feels like. And if I was evaluated in that way at a test, it's gonna show my understanding.
Andrew Adams (17:51.721)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (17:59.97)
Yep. Yep.
Jeremy (18:02.639)
When we talk about testing as checking a box, do you have this degree of competency on this thing?
Andrew Adams (18:04.334)
you
Jeremy (18:13.339)
Forms, we did an episode a long time ago, I think this was before you joined the show, talking about forms and all the different ways you could train a form. Doing it mirror, backward, reverse, doing it without hands, doing it without feet, doing it in a pretend phone booth. If you really know a form, how many of those do you have to demonstrate to prove you really know it? How many people out there just learned a form and they can do it reverse?
Andrew Adams (18:21.539)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (18:37.772)
Yeah, does.
Andrew Adams (18:44.291)
yeah, it's hard. Yeah, yeah, it's really hard.
Jeremy (18:44.301)
You've gotta know that form really well to do that.
Andrew Adams (18:50.188)
Yeah, absolutely. And in fact, I mean, we're going on a bit of a tangent here from teaching to the test, but doing things on the opposite side is really hard. Most weapons forms, most Kobudo, know, Okinawan weapons would be Kobudo. Most of those forms are all right handed. And there are moves that you never, ever do on the left. And when you start to like
work them. It's like, wow, this feels, why is this so weird? because I never do it on this side. So yeah, anyway.
Jeremy (19:28.153)
Now, if you're gonna learn, and I think, I don't quite think this is as much of a tangent as you think it is, because how does someone learn how to do the left? They refer back to the right. They refer back to, okay, so it goes like this on this side. Okay, I gotta do it like this on this side. You've gotta be able to do it well on the first side before you can do it on the other side, right? And so, if I wanted, if you gave me, you gave me black belt candidates,
and I understood your curriculum and I understood what was expected of those students to be black belts, I could test them maybe without the cardio stuff, maybe without some of the resilience, the overcoming that is common in testing. But if I just wanted to evaluate their competency of skill, I could do that in 15 minutes.
Right? I could say, okay, so what's your first form? All right, I want you to do it last move to first move. And then I want you to do it mirror. That's gonna show me pretty much everything I need to know about someone's basic forms. I can see in there, okay, so they're uncomfortable, they're unpracticed. What do their stances look like? That's a default stance for them because now they're uncomfortable.
Andrew Adams (20:25.664)
it.
Andrew Adams (20:37.102)
Thank
Andrew Adams (20:51.288)
Mm-hmm. Correct.
Jeremy (20:53.007)
Okay, the stances look good, the techniques look good, they're unsure, but by unsettling them, I'm getting a more authentic view of who they are as a martial artist, right? But a lot of schools would say, okay, at your black belt test, you're gonna do your form and you're gonna have to do it last move to first move, and you're gonna have to do it in mirror, and you're gonna have to do all these other...
Andrew Adams (21:02.85)
Yeah.
Jeremy (21:16.569)
implementations of that form. You're going to have to do it in a pretend phone booth. You're going to have to demonstrate the application with somebody else.
Jeremy (21:26.235)
Okay.
Jeremy (21:29.755)
But the problem comes in when you run all of those for purpose of the test. You run the risk.
of it being that, and this is where we go back to the beginning, that read.
Jeremy (21:48.889)
Remember regurgitate right that memorization rather than that understanding and I think that that is really important and I think if you if your Curriculum does not leave space for personal understanding You are depriving your students of the ability to truly grow as individual martial artists and you're turning them into robots And if your goal is to make them robots
Andrew Adams (21:54.038)
understanding.
Andrew Adams (22:14.082)
Yeah.
Jeremy (22:18.149)
That's fine. But most instructors I know don't want.
Andrew Adams (22:19.832)
Great. Yeah. I mean, if that's what you want. Yeah. I mean, if that's what want, there's nothing wrong with that. Just know that that's what's happening. That's all.
Jeremy (22:30.565)
Have we missed anything?
Andrew Adams (22:32.738)
Probably and if we did I hope that our listeners and viewers on YouTube will let us know
Jeremy (22:38.287)
I felt like this one meandered a little bit more, but it's a tough subject. This would be, if we were evaluating a specific school with a specific curriculum and specific testing requirements, that would be a lot easier for us to talk about. Here's where we're seeing the gaps. But because we're looking at this from an 800 foot view of martial arts schools in general, knowing that we have schools on,
Andrew Adams (22:58.476)
Yeah.
Jeremy (23:07.877)
that do things so dramatically differently. It's really tough for us to say A, B, because you determine so much of that. And my hope is, and I think I can speak for you too, Andrew, our hope is that in watching or listening to this episode, you take a step back and you say, right, when my students get to the test,
Andrew Adams (23:20.374)
Yeah.
Jeremy (23:35.665)
Do they know what I need them to know? Or are there things that are missing? If they're missing, go ahead. Yeah, if there are things that are missing, then maybe my time between testing is off. Maybe I've got too much material. Maybe I'm going too far off curriculum during my classes. There's nothing with bonus material. My students have bonus material. I'll tell them like, this is bonus.
Andrew Adams (23:41.954)
Did they have to? I was gonna say, did they have to cram to get there?
Andrew Adams (23:58.531)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (24:04.719)
This is not part of the curriculum, but we've naturally ended up in this place and I want to spend 10 minutes talking about it. Because I think they'll get value out of that. But I want you to take a step back and ask yourself, is the ABC, is it lined up well? And if it's not, it's okay to change it. Whether that means you find more efficiency in how you present the material or you remove some of the material, maybe you have a longer test, maybe you wait longer between tests.
Andrew Adams (24:11.342)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew Adams (24:33.265)
Sure. All of those things are options.
Jeremy (24:33.457)
There's no right answer.
Jeremy (24:38.169)
So like Andrew said, if you have feedback for us, Jeremy at Andrew at whistlekick.com, you can leave a comment under the video at YouTube. Hopefully you're watching these episodes because we have a lot of fun and we have make funny faces sometimes. And so you can, you know, you can see us make funny faces. Okay. If you are not subscribed, make sure you're subscribed everywhere. Subscribe on YouTube, turn on notifications. We release Monday and Thursday.
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Andrew Adams (25:14.19)
buy us a coffee.
Jeremy (25:17.115)
There's a literal surface though called buy us a coffee. So it's not that. Yeah, there is. Yeah. But we give you a bunch of bonus stuff behind the scenes. It's the only place you're ever gonna find out who and what topics are upcoming on the show. We're getting better about releasing bloopers. Andrew cuts out some of the silly things that happen either with these episodes or with guests.
Andrew Adams (25:20.901)
really? I didn't even know that. Okay, don't do that for me, cause I don't like coffee.
Jeremy (25:44.825)
So if you really enjoy the show, consider supporting us. It's five bucks a month. There are tiers that are higher than that, but that's the low end. And it goes a long way. This show is still not profitable. Whistlekick as a company is by a little bit. The show is not. And your support in doing so would help us cross that threshold. Anything else we want to say? All right, until next time, train hard and have a great day.
Andrew Adams (26:10.68)
Smile.