Episode 974- Sifu Michael Garner
In today's episode Jeremy sits down and chats with Sifu Michael Garner after Free Training Day Pacific Northwest, about his martial journey in Kajukenbo.Sifu Michael Garner - Episode 974
SUMMARY
In this conversation, Sifu Michael Garner shares his extensive journey through martial arts, military service, and various roles in security and law enforcement. He discusses the influence of his upbringing, experiences with violence, and the importance of self-defense training. Sifu Garner also delves into his teaching philosophy, the unique aspects of Kajukenbo, and his aspirations for the future of his martial arts school. In this conversation, he also discusses his journey in martial arts, emphasizing the importance of overcoming excuses, the growth of his school, and the unique gender dynamics within his classes. He highlights the significance of empathy in teaching, especially for students with traumatic backgrounds, and the need for instructors to adapt their methods based on individual student needs. The discussion also touches on the evolution of martial arts, the role of ego, and the necessity of maintaining an open mind in training. Sifu Garner concludes with a call for continuous learning and adaptation in martial arts practice.
TAKEAWAYS
• Martial arts can be a lifelong journey of learning and growth.
• Military training significantly shapes one's approach to martial arts.
• Experiences with violence can lead to a desire for self-defense knowledge.
• Teaching martial arts is about empowering others to protect themselves.
• Kajukenbo combines various martial arts styles for practical self-defense.
• Personal experiences in martial arts can lead to deeper insights and humility.
• The importance of community and support in martial arts training.
• Understanding the dynamics of violence is crucial for security roles.
• Martial arts training can help in high-stress situations, like in healthcare.
• Building a martial arts school requires dedication and adaptability.
• Overcoming excuses is crucial for personal growth.
• Starting small can lead to significant expansion.
• Gender dynamics in martial arts can shift with the right approach.
• Empathy is essential in teaching, especially for trauma survivors.
• Understanding individual student needs enhances teaching effectiveness.
• Ego can hinder the evolution of martial arts practices.
• Martial arts should be adaptable and fluid, not rigid.
• Open-mindedness in training leads to better outcomes.
• Context is vital for effective martial arts instruction.
• Continuous learning is key to being a successful instructor.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and Overview
02:55 Martial Arts Journey Begins
06:05 Military Influence on Martial Arts
08:53 Experiences with Violence and Self-Defense
12:04 Transitioning to Security and Law Enforcement
14:56 Teaching Martial Arts and Violence Prevention
17:55 Bail Enforcement and Adrenaline Rush
21:11 Martial Arts Training and Philosophy
24:02 Kajukenbo: A Unique Martial Art
26:47 Personal Experiences in Martial Arts
29:53 The Evolution of Kajukenbo
33:04 Building a Martial Arts School
36:06 Conclusion and Future Aspirations
43:09 Overcoming Excuses and Starting Anew
46:27 Growth and Expansion of the Martial Arts School
49:31 Understanding Gender Dynamics in Martial Arts
52:08 Empathy and Trauma-Informed Teaching
56:20 The Importance of Context in Martial Arts Training
01:01:08 Ego and the Evolution of Martial Arts
01:06:52 The Fluidity of Martial Arts Techniques
01:12:55 Encouraging Open-Mindedness in Training
01:17:53 Final Thoughts on Continuous Learning and Adaptation
Show Notes
To connect with Sifu Michael Garner: www.greywolfma.com
This episode is sponsored by Kataaro. Please check out their site at Kataaro Custom Martial Arts Products - Kataaro. And use the code WK10 to save 10% off your first order. And be sure to ask them about a wholesale account for school owners!
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Show Transcript
Jeremy (00:00.046)
Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome. It's an episode of Whistlekick martial arts radio. Thanks for spending some time with us. Today I'm joined by Michael Karner and we're going to have a good time. If we have half as good of a time as we did training together yesterday, this is going to be good episode.
But before we get to that, just a reminder, if you're new to the show, whistlekick.com for everything we do as an organization, whistlekickcommercialarchradio.com for everything we do for this show. And a special shout out to Kotaro for sponsoring this episode. K-A-T-A-A-R-O.com is where you want to go for the best belts in the world, as well as some fun stuff like this hoodie. You were saying, you love this saying, it's best to be a warrior in a garden than gardener in a war.
this great hoodie. carry around my, we did a collaboration on belts, right? Like the belt that I wear almost every time is that great Kataro belt, that black, white, what I call the yin yang belt. They call it something else, but it's awesome. And there's a belt bag that they made and I carry the belt in that and they just do so much great stuff. And they're really supportive of not only what we do, but the martial arts industry as a whole. Use the code WK10.
Check out on your first order save 10 % at Katara.com Katara.com and thank you again to Katara. Michael, thanks for being here. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Yeah. So here we are. We are at Kiai Martial Arts in Puyallup, Washington. Pretty sure I said that close, but not perfectly. That's okay. Free training day Pacific Northwest, the third annual event up here. And we're in CJ's office.
Some of you who have been around for a while might say, I recognize that office. Yeah, we did a few episodes last year. We're doing some episodes this year. It's good place and we had a good time yesterday. Yeah, awesome time. I enjoyed it very much. was great. Let's start in the boring way. know, the way that we, I don't know that we need to, but it's an easy place to start, which is your martial arts background. We'll see where that takes us. So how'd you get started?
Jeremy (05:38.028)
Well, so I was always interested in martial arts, even as a child. was, of course, watched every martial arts show that I could, or know, movie that came out, especially, you know. have favorite? Probably, at the time, growing up, probably Enter the Dragon was one of favorites. I loved watching Bruce Lee when I was younger. You know, you know.
age myself a little bit as far as some of those goes. Then of course the cartoons which I I Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles when it first came out. The original is not the new updated craziness. Some of the new stuff is okay but my heart is always going to have a special place for those originals. Yeah absolutely. you know and then when I as I grew up and things I I had an interest but never really followed it.
I didn't really get into any type of actually martial arts training until the Marines. So when I was, I was cited for a delayed entry program at 17, left as soon as I turned 18, pretty much. And that was one of my favorite parts of being in the Marines was, you know, the physical and the hand to hand. Why, why did you want to?
What'd want to go into the military? You come from a military family? I come from a huge military family. Everybody in the family has been military. My father was Navy. My grandfather was Navy. My godfather was Navy. And they let you go in as a Marine? Well, yeah. My uncles, they were all either Air Force or Army. So I mean, all the way around. I remember right after graduation, I called my uncle and...
He's like, I'm really proud of you. He goes, man, I'm the only one that's ever gone Marines. And so he was just like, but you just, you had to show up the rest of us, didn't So I mean, it was pretty good feeling. you know, coming from both ones that had served and also some of them, like my godfather and my grandfather, they were both World War II vets. So it was pretty awesome like that. So I figured, yeah, I needed to go into the military, you know, had that calling for it.
Jeremy (07:58.292)
And I chose Marines. Probably because they had the better uniforms, know, and looks better. know, hey, whatever reason there was, it worked out well. Taught me a lot. You know, I really, really got interested in even more so into the physical training, you know, of martial arts, as well as, you know, the combat side of it, where it's like, OK, I...
I want to learn more. So that was your first experience with hand to hand? That was the first real experience with being taught hand to hand. I had plenty of little episodes and all kinds of occasions in we talk about that? It's not even the smile on your mouth, it's the smile in your eyes that tells me there might be something we should talk about. Well, know, I've always been small.
you know, currently a whopping five, five, two, and I've always been smaller and my grandfather was the one that actually taught me about that. He used to me little one and he was the one that, really embedded into my head that, know, if when you get picked on or if you ever have to defend yourself, there's no such thing as a fair fight because you use whatever is necessary to deal with your, to, equalize that. Yep. And I carried that through. the unfortunate part is
I grew up in an area that was, I think out of, in my high school, I think we had
450 500 kids and I'm pretty sure that at the time there was Eight between eight to ten minorities So Any and all minorities inclusive, right? Okay. Yeah, and so I I grew up with dealing with a lot of things there and carried unfortunately quite a bit of
Jeremy (10:00.042)
anger over racial issues and some other things. your background is? I am Yaqui, half Yaqui, which is a tribe that is basically in northern Mexico, Arizona, and Texas. I grew up that way.
Well, actually, didn't know at the time. Everybody thought I was Hispanic. Because I was adopted when I was about three months old and my mother's Hispanic. My father's white, which created an interesting that they had a whole different story of themselves. I'm surprised. I don't know how they made it through the times because they grew up, obviously, in the 60s and 70s when interracial mixed couple. My mother is Roman Catholic. My father's Southern Baptist.
and you know, so they kind of defied everything from the very beginning. So I grew up in a, in a, in a mixed family and understanding that it, none of that matters. And unfortunately, when I, you know, in school and things, well, it had matters to other people. And so I grew up with quite a bit of anger, a lot of, a of, you know, basically hate about a lot of the ways it was treated. So lots of fights in high school.
to the point where I was like, okay. Now, if we kind of want to talk about that for a little bit, we've had others on the show that fighting was part of their youth.
But they don't, not everyone who fought as a kid, and I'm going to guess, felt like they had to fight, you know, it sounds like that describes you, had the same perception of violence, right? Sometimes people, the moment they can get out of that world, never want to be violent again, right? So you're going into the military, which, you know, not necessarily violent, but is combative.
Jeremy (12:04.256)
Right? So you clearly weren't one of those. couldn't say, okay, I'm a pacifist now.
Jeremy (12:12.886)
A lot of times folks come through that and they become, and a little bit of a spoiler because I did talk to your wife a bit yesterday, but of a guardian mindset, not wanting others to go through that. Yeah. So did, had that, had that attitude, did that exist back then too? Were you protective of others?
Yeah, yeah, we're still predominantly protective, especially family. Sure. You know, chose part of the, you know, I, I look back at it. mean, we joked around about the uniform and things like that, but part of the reason, you know, I, I went with the Marines is that, more prone to combative or, you know, honestly violent type. I figured, you know, what better way to.
to also better myself in that if I'm going into something that's gonna go along those lines. My father wasn't very happy with it. was all about, know, all you're gonna be is combat or you're just always gonna be a rifleman. I want you to go in the Navy where you can get education, where you can do all these things. And he like, well, that's great, but no, I want the on the ground, want to put it on the ground. Yeah, that's why I chose that. In fact, my MOSs were infantry.
I was special weapons security for the first year and a And then when I was, after leaving that, went to third battalion, first Marines, the infantry unit was assigned to, with the special operations group was assigned to force recon for their backup missions, as well as Marine expeditionary unit special operations. So spent the last two years, you know, predominantly.
Gone a lot and doing all kinds of fun stuff. you know, after I left the Marines, I went two years with Subbase Police. I spent multiple years with, after that, with everything from casino security to... Why did you leave the Marines? You know, it was a choice in dealing with family. It was more one of those that...
Jeremy (14:30.518)
I look back, I should have just stayed in. I would have been better off. I was doing everything I loved doing, some issues with my first wife and things like that, and dealing with family. I understand it now more so because we married out of high school. Of course, you don't believe it at the time, but looking back, there was huge changes that occurred.
military changes a lot for you and a of people don't realize that and they no I'm good nothing's changed I'm you same person no you're not it changes everything for you and you know my last year in I was home what six weeks out of the whole year and it's hard to maintain any kind of relationship yeah especially with you know two children and they it was just it she had said that you know hey
can't do this if we're gonna continue this and can't deal with enlisting and re-enlisting and so forth. So I got out, we separated six months later, I should have just stayed in. In fact, when 9-11 happened, I just about re-enlisted again and just about went. But after I got out the military, I mean, I went to...
Obviously, I mean like you said a guardianship type roles. That's where I was drawn to security or law enforcement Spend time, know casino security Bodyguard and VIP security was traded with that Since that point time I've also
Jeremy (16:11.682)
just some general type security, like property type, but the biggest ones were I spent three years with juvenile corrections, and then another six years as security lead supervisor for hospital security. So, was an eye opener in itself right there, because a lot of people don't realize exactly how...
how violent and how necessary security is in hospital. And how hamstrung people are. This is something that if you dig into medical related strikes and you don't know, most of the audience doesn't know, I live just a few miles from the big hospital in Vermont, which is a small hospital in the rest of the world, but it's the big hospital in Vermont. And so anytime anything's going on with contract negotiations,
and looming strikes, some of the details end up in the news. And one of the things that I see time and time again is we're not feeling safe. We're not feeling right as, you know, especially nurses get the short end of the stick. They're getting beat up constantly. do. National statistics show that approximately 80 % of nurses nationwide will be the will be the unfortunate victim or have been victims of assault.
That's insane. It's a higher percentage than than law enforcement or other security or anything else, you know, so Is there any is there any
Does gender play a role in that at all? If we take a big step back, we think about self-defense, it's generally man assaulting woman, is it? Still the same. It's the same. Yeah. Because a lot of the patients that do assault are male. They see the females as an easier target. But at the same time, we've had plenty of the males assaulted also because they're working a lot of times in what
Jeremy (18:23.318)
a lot of people still consider a female role. So then of course, if you're male, you you're girly, you're working, know, something that's female-oriented, and so they get targeted also. My last, then going from the hospital, I left there after six years. While I was at the hospital, I also was still, besides security itself,
I also helped develop and also then taught the violence prevention program to medical staff. that role kind of continued because it's not only am I going to be there to help you, but I'm going to teach you some of the things that are going to help you prevent possibly being a victim or possibly those violent acts towards you. Not only just the physical, but also here's the signs to watch for, the awareness, how to deescalate, and then how to, if necessary, all right, now I have
physically deal with it.
Jeremy (19:30.124)
A lot of nurses, our staff really benefited from that because they used some of the same techniques and actually were able to defend themselves effectively, but also without necessarily hurting the patients, without themselves getting seriously hurt like a lot of had before. From the hospital after I left there, well my last two years at the hospital and then for the...
Almost five years after that, was involved with bail enforcement. So fugitive recovery. That's an intense role. I know people who've worked in that field. Let me ask, were you...
Were you missing intensity? Were you missing the action? I'm pretty sure. Because there's a large amount of time, nothing's going on. You're just a lot of surveillance, a lot of tracking people down. It was always funny because people would ask, what do you do for a living now? Besides teach martial arts. I was like, well, I hunt people down. I hunt people for a living. And they just look at me like, what?
What do mean? No, that's literally the job. I hunt people down. The job itself, mean, when it's not surveillance and when you actually have to go in after somebody, whether it's just knocking on the door. mean, there's a huge adrenaline rush just in that alone because you never know what's on the other side that. I mean, obviously, the adrenaline rushes are okay. They don't answer, so now I get to kick the door in or we're going to be fighting about it.
and you know the martial arts and all the training helped a lot with that because for some reason people that miss miss court and know or that have been bailed out and they don't want to go back to jail huh say hi it's weird yeah so they're willing to do some things yeah yeah I mean you know and 80 % of them they go without a problem they they're like yeah they got me there's about
Jeremy (21:41.07)
The other 10, there's 10 % after that that'll resist a little bit. It's still a good number. But it's not a major resistance. And then there's that last 10 % that's like, no, I'm not going, we're going to fight. I was like, OK, well, we can go that route. It's going be a bad day for you, but all right, we'll go. so job-wise, I've pretty much been in.
Either, like you said, a guardianship type role or...
hands-on or know in occupations that have had the potential of violent encounters. You mentioned in there that at the time you were doing bail work you were teaching martial arts but we didn't hear when you started. Where did martial arts start for you? I started and I had taken throughout after the Marines I had gotten I had taken a little bit of time and in different arts I took some of keto for a little bit.
I spent about maybe six months in Taekwondo and that was enough of that. Taekwondo, I mean, it had its merits and things, but for me especially, know, at least the school I went to, Taekwondo focuses really heavily on the kicks and everything, which is great, all right.
but no i like being hands on close in and were you in it in itf school or wt was punching to the head
Jeremy (23:20.718)
Yeah, it was. I was trying to remember back then because that was a while back. Probably in ITF or ATF. Like I said, spend some time learning keto.
Jeremy (23:36.024)
through a private instructor that was prior military. did do about a year of kendo, which was always fun, learning the swords. That was my very first humbling experience. mean, major humbling with Martyrs' Martyrs. It was actually right after the Marines. It was about two years after the Marines.
Jeremy (24:02.542)
I'm a Marine. I may have come out of there just a little cocky a little bit, know, hey, you know, I'm a Marine. I'm a badass. Guess what? All right. So we were that's where I still relate the story to my students is that never assume because they're older or never assume that your instructor, you know, because you get one over on him has taught you everything. But that doesn't have little things that they're they're holding on to. And we're going through
and we come at each other and I mean beautiful strike right across the midsection from him. I got a little cocky. I was like, yeah, that's right. He's like, okay, let's go again. I came at him and he busted me on top of the head. Are you using Shinais? yeah, we're Shinais.
That doesn't stop the pain. They will still leave a wealth on top of your head. It sets the tone, Because I've been hit with a shinai in a time or two. It's an experience. least on top of my head, didn't pinch the skin like, know, he could get hit in the arms or anything. But he nailed me right on top of the head. He put me down to my knees. mean, immediately a little goose egg right on top. And that was the point in time where he looked at me and goes, I haven't touched you ever.
don't assume. was like, yeah, yeah, that was. so what was your emotional response to that? Right. Because if you're there, if you're feeling cocky, do you get angry or? No, no, I didn't get angry at was a sudden realization that the epiphany moment like, yeah, maybe I should, maybe I should, you know, keep my mouth shut and just learn and not get all like, yeah, that's right. You know, so that was.
And that actually helped me a lot after that, that one moment, because I approached martial arts and everything after that. Much more humble attitude is like, what can I learn? Who can I learn, you know, who can I learn quality stuff from and actually, you know, implement that? So in 2009, I actually started Kaji Kimbo under the Academy of Kung Fu in Longyear, Washington. So was this, you you found Kaji Kimbo as your...
Jeremy (26:22.542)
searching because I'm getting the sense you were searching you knew you wanted something combative. In actual I had started in 2001 and
I was still younger at the time. let some things get in the way. Primarily, when I started in 2001, I...
And one of those, not to my own horror thing, but I excel extremely fast in learning. Learning the cause, the forms, learning the self-defense. And it was one of those that I wanted to learn as much as possible. the way to do that is, my instructor at the time is like, here's, you have time with me, but here's your advanced students also that can help you out.
Jeremy (27:16.302)
And the unfortunate part is it reminded me similar when I was growing up in school. Some of the advanced students were very much against somebody moving forward faster than what they did. some of them were very adamant about, not going to teach you anything, or criticizing and things. And so I let that get to me, and I stopped. I started back up, I'm sorry, it wasn't 2009, I started back up in 2005.
And with a whole new dedication to it and it said, you know, no, I miss it. I want back in there. So I went back to the same school. I started back up and, you know, told my instructors like, no, I'm going to finish this to myself. I'm going to finish this. The. Kaja Kimball usually takes five years for Black Belt. I made it in four years, three months, because I mean, I dedicate the point. I was there sometimes, you know.
three times a week, sometimes five times a week. And then as I advanced more, was assistant instructing and moving up that way and pushed myself to the point that it's like, no, I'm gonna finish this. So, I'm trying to think of how to phrase this. We've had a few people on over the years that have come out of Kajikambo. And being an East Coast guy, we don't have nearly as much Kajikambo over there as you all do here.
But the folks that I've talked to who came through Akaji Kempo School.
Most of them
Jeremy (28:58.702)
seem to come from backgrounds that are a little rougher around the edges versus other traditional arts. Right? And I've got a very limited sample set here, but your laugh tells me maybe my observation is accurate. So Kaja Kemba when it was first started was started basically in 1947, 1949. That's when it was developed.
in Hawaii in Hawaii Paloma sediment Oahu Hawaii. So when it was developed, the thing is it was there was there was five there was five gentlemen that got together and they they had experience and know proficiency in basically five different arts. So it's made up of karate, judo, jiu-jitsu, kumbo and Chinese boxing, kung fu. All right.
the
The primary breakdown of it is the kicks, right? Especially the thrust and the ball, the power kicks are karate based. A lot of the hand strikes and the multiple strikes are the keppel side of it. Judo and jiu-jitsu, we do have throws and locks and holes that come in from that. And then our animal forms, a lot of the flowing technique comes from the kung fu side. So it's this blend of I can flow when everything moves along and then all of sudden it comes into those hard strikes.
The it was broken down eventually over the years got broken down into four different styles. There's original Kacha Kimbo There's one hop condo and there's chuan fa and then the fourth division was Tum-Pai and the thing that separates Tum-Pai from yep from there is that Tum-Pai is the only Recognized soft style
Jeremy (30:47.596)
And it's considered a soft style, not because, of course, you know, anyone that understands the difference between hard style and soft style, you know, understands that soft style doesn't mean that it's going to be any easier or any you're going to hit hard or softer than anything else. It just means that the way that I'm going to employ things is going to be different. I know I don't focus on power versus power. It's going to be flowing techniques that involve voiding and opening up and using their their speed, their momentum, their power against them. So I've always I shouldn't say
always but I think of soft styles as more circles versus straights and angles and edges. Yeah it's gonna be a lot more of you know those those slowing around things and so what Tumpai means is central way.
And so the theory behind it is that I move around their center or I move around my center. And so it's like you said, it's that flowing, I'm moving around more. The other thing that separated Tumpi from everything else was it implemented and evolved.
adding in Tai Chi. So a lot of our form has the Tai Chi aspects implemented and, you know, blended in with it. So a lot of those, those techniques that they use that were all horizontally, like you said, where it goes linear, I may move linear, but I'm going to open that up. And we have put it to my students, it's like a bullfire. What does a bullfire do? All right, they're standing there, they wait for that bull is just about there. And at the last minute, they just do a simple turn, pull that
pull that flag back, know, and bow goes right on through. That's more the way that the Tampai is. It's designed to not stop and counter their movement, but to allow their movement to continue and then you redirect or, you know, mess up their whole movement as it continues. So that was, you know...
Jeremy (32:48.002)
That was a little bit different. as far as the Kaji Kimbo side of it, when you said it's little rougher around the edges, when it was first started, the basic way they did it is they trained it. They got to the point where, OK, this is where we want to be with it. All right. Well.
how do we effectively make sure this works? We're basically gonna go find a fight in town, create one, if need be, and then we're gonna test the technique. If it works, we're keeping it. If it doesn't work, we're scrapping it because it's not gonna be effective for the street or for actual self-defense. So that's the way they developed the system. But the other thing is the original school.
The stories that go with it is that if there wasn't some blood on the mat, they weren't done training. And that was their way of dealing with it, to harden that, to make sure that, OK, no, the people that are going through this, you're going to earn that. It was designed to be more of a defensive and more of a street art rather than competition or sport type art. was nothing, the originals, was nothing sport about it.
just all, we're gonna break things, we're gonna hurt you, wrong one to pick on along those lines. So yeah, it was very much developed around that aspect. or if you know John Hackl, when the pit master was on the show, he talked a bit more about those early days and fascinating, fascinating stories and just.
Jeremy (34:29.806)
When I think of a quintessential Kondukembo person, it's him. Listen to the way he talks and he talks a little bit differently than you would think of lot of martial artists talking about combat. So I went through, I received my first degree in 2009 and then from there...
I've had two schools, I had one school that I had for about a year and a half and then I had to close it because when I was working at the hospital the schedule was just crazy.
Jeremy (35:11.438)
I'd work Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, have like Thursday, Friday off and then work Saturday, Sunday, then have the following week. It was always opposite days off each week. So that's real difficult to run a school when people kind of look at it in consistency and, well this week I can train on Tuesday and Wednesday, but next week I can't train until Thursday and Friday and it doesn't work so well. I closed that and in...
the end of 2021, you know, and you said, we'll go back on that because you said you had talked to my wife and Michaela. And so Michaela and I met at the hospital. All right. She told you that I'm the one that, you know, saved the buck quite a few different times from, know, from some patients and from some situations. Her favorite one, of course, is we had to deal with
very large gentleman he was about 6'3", 6'4", and easily about 320 pounds. He's a big guy. Yeah, I mean everybody, the funny part is everybody referred to him as Haggard from Harry Potter because he was about, yeah that's what, he was about that size. Fairly violent past, had, you know, mental health issues and some other things and so I mean could be very violent and very scary just in size alone and
There was one time he was on a hold, he wasn't allowed to leave.
And he's myself and my partner, was Chris Moore, which is one of my favorite partners ever, because him and I pretty much, meshed. We had our moments. We didn't necessarily agree with things, but we meshed really well as far as work goes. We understood each other as one of those partners that I didn't have to think about what he was going to do. He didn't have to think about what I was going to do. We knew exactly how this was going to go down. two completely opposites, because I'm Native and Spanish.
Jeremy (37:11.76)
You know long hair. He's He's white tattoos all over the place short hair. He was army. I was Marines and You guys give each other a lot of we give a lot of crap But it was a complete opposites because we've we dealt with like racial issues or anything There was times that I have skinheads in there didn't like me loved him. He fits the profile Opposite Hispanic or native they love mage. They didn't want anything to do with him. So it was a really good working relationship and we
We were in there talking with him. He said he's leaving. I said, well, you know, no, I'm just unfortunate you can't. said you have to stay. And he said he's leaving. right. Michaela was his nurse. He jumps up and literally I grab an arm, Chris grabs an arm, and he slides us about five feet back. I mean, just moving forward. All right. Across the room.
Michaela my loving beautiful wife right she decides the best way to contain this man All right, and to make sure that he doesn't get out and everything else is she just shuts the sliding door behind us and puts her foot into it so that the door won't open So she basically just locks us in there. She's on the outside locks us in there with and I'm like
Really? That's great. Awesome. It's lot of faith or sacrificial? I'm not sure how to interpret not sure which one it was, but at the time he slayed us back until both of our feet hit the door. And about that point time I was like,
Now it's our turn and they would say he ended up on the ground in restraints and everything else. If I may, if you're willing to talk about it, that's a dramatic situation and I'm sure there are plenty of people watching who would assume the full complement of material that you have available is an option. But being that you are at work,
Jeremy (38:59.296)
In medical setting, my understanding is all of that material is not available to you that you have. No. avenues that you can approach this problem. How did you approach it? We both had an arm. it was one of those that, you know, we attempted to push back on him. has enough weight, enough power that that's not going to work.
Our job was restraining, was control and restraint. I teach on three different levels. There's the first level, is escape. The second level is control and restraint. And then the third is I like to play as just destruction.
nurses and like women's self-defense and things this is escape. You're not going to go hand to hand or fight this fight this person for a long career time. You want to get out of that situation. Restraint is what security, you know, a lot of times law enforcement deals with that destruction is that complete self-defense where now I have to I have no concern or care for their welfare anymore. So I'm going to do whatever is necessary. Knives, guns, you know, you can't you can't be there. You can't operate at that level. You can't, you know, unless, of course, there was
lethal threat that was involved. pretty much, know, attempt to push back and everything like that. I was like, nope, not happening. So basically, I simply reached between legs, grabbed the back of his leg, high up on the leg where it pinched enough that he lifted that leg just enough, balance shifted and he's going down to the floor.
It's crazy because once he went down the floor, I mean, we, you it went all the way to the back wall, you know, and he's crammed in there. He's crammed in there basically turn him into the pretzel into the fetal position. He's all crammed in there and, you know, we get control of him, get him up there. You know, but it was one of those simple little techniques that you wouldn't think would.
Jeremy (41:00.11)
when most people would never think of it was just one of those like, well, where do I know pressure points are? Where do I know that it's going to hurt? You know, and even if it's enough just to shift that weight as big as he is, was my my tech one, no instructor's favorite self-defense, get a little bit of skin on the side of the thigh. if they're not expecting it, changes the dynamic because if they lift that foot at all, now the whole balance shifts and the huge, you know, we got him down there.
The funniest part is once we had him down to control the arm, things like that, I got a hold of the fingers. The really funny part is later on, Michaela went to go check on him and of course he's sitting there.
It was a complete change around because he's sitting there like a little you know like a little six or seven year old kids holding on his finger booboo lip and everything like that and she's like you're right and he's like the native broke my fingers It's like well, there's there's that But yeah, we we we met the hospital and
she decided to really start martial arts again. had taken taekwondo and because of an injury it stopped, but she really decided to start martial arts after seeing the way that that went and after things went along that line. She wanted to learn more and then stay safe at work, stay safe at work primarily. And she unfortunately had dealt with it pretty mentally and
other types of relationship prior to me, in which she finally realized and got out of. And so she basically wanted to make sure that she no longer was hoping to get over the fears of that and to deal with the insecurities along with that. 2021, she finally convinced me, she goes, you're really good teaching. Why don't you open a school again?
Jeremy (43:09.504)
At times I had all kinds of excuses. Well, you know, I don't have the time. I don't have the space. I want to dedicate everything for this. It's a big commitment. It is. And you knew that commitment because you've done it before. Plenty of people go in there first time and like, yeah, this is going to be great. And then they realize, whoa. Well, my first school had a total between the adults and the kids.
I think I only had 15 students, 15, 15, 20 at the most. It's still a of It's still a lot of work. But when I opened, I finally listened to her and Kaya stopped with the excuses and said, okay, I'm going teach again. And we started off in the garage, which was basically, what, like a 10 by 12 foot training area.
You know, so small. We started off with... And about the size of this room? Yeah, pretty much from the front of counter, maybe over to the door. It wasn't huge. My two children, Kayden is now 14, Mackenzie is 12. And they had both been involved in martial arts in my first school. They've been taught by me throughout the period of time, you know, since they were about five and six.
And so they were my first new students again. And they both excel at it. I'd like to say it's strong genetics and that they just pick that up. But they both understand it. They both excel at it. so I had them. I had another student that came to us from another school that was friends of the family. So I started off with three students. And in about...
We opened in July of 21 and by March of 22 we had, I think five students. All right, so it's growing. By the mid part of 22 we had...
Jeremy (45:16.782)
I was getting up to where we almost had 10 students. There was one that was kind of in and out. So we had nine 10 students right there. And I was like, I can't figure anymore in here. It's like, I'm going to run into a problem. And that's no advertising.
I'm just like, okay, I'm getting people word of mouth and so I need to look at something. Luckily when we bought our property, it had this really nice huge shop up there. They had a granite business and they had a trucking business. So it was a big enough base to be able to pull semis into. So I had a really nice, you know, huge shop area. we're like, we're going to turn it into a school. Started framing off on all the walls, got everything situated. The floor was...
Is it 20 was a 22 by 20 foot so it's basically double the size of the garage. All right. Okay. Now we're going good Still no advertising I Word of mouth alone it went from 10 to 22 students. All right by the end of by the end of 22 we that's where we're at in
Let me see, this is October, so midway through 23, I had to expand into the other bay. So it jumped from a 22 by 20 to a 22 by 40 foot space.
I now have 56 students within a year. so it was like, yeah. And it's still no advertising. They've been talking to me, we need to do advertising now to bring more students in because my ones are advancing to bring new ones in. And there's this part of like, it's a real business. It's a real good problem to have. But at the same time, I'm like, all right, now we're
Jeremy (47:07.47)
expand to because now I'm gonna have to tear off possibly out this other wall and do some more expansion as I get more in but it's it you know it's three times the size of my original school it's it's moving forward great I have everything from ages my youngest is age 6 and my oldest is a 73 and you know we
Jeremy (47:34.749)
We have quite a range. The crazy part is most of a large amount of our associate adults are female, which is a little different because most of the, especially when you go to Cochicambo, most of them are male. Most schools are male. Most schools in general are male, to have most students being female, that's interesting. What do you have that up to?
well i have a lovely on an awesome life that is is great promoting but she's recording yes recruits but the other thing is we actually
have gotten to quite a few from their kids training. They see their kids training. They are interested in themselves. see the way that, know, myself as an instructor, have my other two instructors are both second degree black belts and in Kaja Kimball and they are both female. So, you know, we have a good mix because we have male and female instructors. You know, the kids that are there, pretty good blend of everything. And some of them have come from also like our, when we've done women's self-defense.
They've seen that the way that that's taught and want to learn they want to continue learning more where they feel that safe and that security You know that they didn't feel before so we've gotten a lot from those aspects there the number one correlation I see with the male-female mix in a school is is their senior leadership are there there females at the front of the room if there are
Generally see 50-50 right if there are I generally see 90 10 80 20. Yeah. Yeah our mix on male the female as far as On the adult side of it and teens is it's honestly about 70 30. That's cool. No That's a whole different energy it is and You know it it's really helped me have a better understanding of how to teach because
Jeremy (49:31.918)
you know, males, like I have one that's that's that's prior military retired gun resurgent from the Marine Corps. He was here yesterday. here yesterday. He's an interesting man. like it. One of last men you'll want to, you know, you'll think is an easy target because it'll be a bad day. But, know, obviously I can talk with him differently and train with him differently than necessarily I can with a female that's had a very traumatic incidences, you know.
and you have you realize that you have to not necessarily treat them differently because you don't want to ever sit there and well they're more frail or they're anything like this because they're not it's just they have triggers are things that you have to be more aware of in things that you do. The way you convey that information has to acknowledge the reality of the student. know the other reality of it is the physical aspect okay if I grab you by your wrist
you're probably going be okay with it.
you know, and even males, but I mean, anyone that's been in a traumatic situation where they've been, where there's been abuse or they've been attacked in that fashion, now I grab hold of you that way, it can trigger a response that, you know, you better be prepared for because... Everything else that went along with that prior experience comes flooding back. And so, you know, it's been a really good learning curve for me as an instructor, also understanding all aspects of how people respond as well as how
to relate to them in dealing with different aspects of experience, unfortunately traumatic experiences that they've had, their backgrounds, just really understanding how to relate to everybody. I'd like to say I do a pretty good job of it, at least that's what my students all tell me. sounds like it. If you've got women coming in and they're remaining...
Jeremy (51:32.834)
you're doing something right with that. so. Like I said, a lot of them have commented how things have already changed for them. There's been evidence of these changes in the way that they act, the way they hold themselves.
Jeremy (51:49.918)
much more aggressive, much more outgoing, much more along the lines of, okay, they started developing that confidence, you know, increases self-esteem and that feeling of safety and security. So it's always been a positive for me on that. What do you do differently now as an instructor?
as you've wrapped your head around this general subject of accommodating people who been through trauma, what are you doing now that's different than maybe you did a couple years ago or even your first school? Especially from a large amount of it came from the hospital is a much more...
Jeremy (52:32.918)
is a greater sense of empathy with it. my students, know, the term sensei or sifu, either direction Chinese or Japanese, I mean, primarily means instructor, but it also has that other meaning of basically like a father figure. having a deeper understanding that
has helped me go along with those. right, it's not babying or coddling them, but you have to have that empathy. You have to understand kind of what they've gone through, right? And sometimes take smaller steps with them, right?
And the expectation is still going to be there, but the expectation may be it's going to take us a little bit longer to get there and be patient and understanding with that. When I first started, not so much the same. It's like, okay, this is the standard. This is where we're supposed to be. Let's go. Let's move. It was more of that military aspect. It's like, let's go. All right. And it used to frustrate me a little bit. And it was like, okay, why aren't they getting this?
And so since that point in time between my first school and even now, even though it wasn't terribly long, it was only about a four year, but I was working in the hospital. And that actually opened my eyes to a lot of things about how I have to deal with deescalation, how I have to deal and work with patients as well as other staff.
I have to look at it differently and think about the things that they've been through and readjust the way that I talk and act with them. It's funny that we've gotten here because folks who've been around in the audience a long time know that I generally have a...
Jeremy (54:24.042)
a problem that's always circulating in the back of my mind. What is this thing that I'm trying to figure out, trying to solve for a couple years that was around ego and how our industry approaches ego within the context of training. And right now, it's how we approach context. I grew up, you probably grew up,
within the martial arts context anyway, that there was no, little to no acknowledgement that students didn't have the context of what they were going through because they hadn't gone through it yet. And so as instructors, it was, well, just trust me, I'll get you there. But you have to submit or surrender. have to have faith that you are being guided in the right way. And for some people that works. And at a certain time in
that was more effective than it is today, but what I think we have now is If people don't have the context for where you're bringing them We've got to find some other way for them to trust the process that is beyond well just want you to trust me and know that I have your best intentions at heart and I think what I'm hearing from you is Maybe not in those words, but a recognition of that that
Instead of you're here. We want to get you there. I'm over there in my past that in fact because I've been through this I'm I just want you to take these really big steps and know that you know, I'm not gonna let you fall But what I'm hearing is okay Here's where the next footprint is. I've got you. You need me to hold your hand for that. Okay, cool. You don't okay? I've got my hand here if you need it I'll support you. Yeah
A lot of my students have said one of the things they love the most about the way that I instruct is I explain.
Jeremy (56:20.514)
which helps them, you know, and I explain it on multiple levels because everybody has a different learning style and that I've learned that over years and years with this is that you have to be able to appeal and be able to work with them with all the different learning styles. Some people, you know, like my son, I can show him and go through and he will follow one time and he'll pick it up.
You know, my daughter, not quite the same way. She doesn't always do it that way. But I can tell her and say it as I'm doing movements, and she picks that up and she can follow that. You know, some people, I can guide them through it, right, and tell them they can follow me step by step, all right, and...
They have no, it's that, well just trust me, follow me, all right? And they go through it, but it has no meaning to them. And then of course we break it down, you know, and this is what you're doing, all right?
This is what these movements are doing. This is how this applies. And all of that light bulb kicks in and goes, now that makes sense. Now I understand why I'm doing this. So therefore, now I can effectively do it and not just simply just follow those movements. And that was one of the major things as an instructor that I had to develop is that, OK, I need to be able to work with them on all the levels and not just simply, like you said, follow me and trust in the fact that I know
that I know better. It's like, this is why we do it. This is what's occurring. And I I even leave it up to them. It's like, does that make sense? Is there something that you think would work better? And I've had students say, yeah, I would do this and this. OK, so let's go over that. If you were to actually do this and I did this, would it actually work?
Jeremy (58:25.644)
Yeah, no, works so much. I understand how you came to that, but all right, now do this this way. And you know, it's like, yeah, that works much better. So I mean, it's also being open to.
You know, they say that black belt is that beginning of the journey. Well, part of that journey should also be you being one and open to being able listen to the other people. Whether it's your students, because some of the things I've come up with and some of the things I've learned is from the students. Even if it's, well, this person's left hand, they step funny or they do something weird.
Okay, now I need to revise certain things and if I'm working with somebody that's left handed or what happens, okay, if I'm now having to deal with the defense against that side. So, you know, I mean, it's a learning process and it should be where you're open to everything. And like you said, ego, unfortunately in martial arts, it truly has no purpose in it.
because you look back at the codes of Bushido and everything else, being humble was the one major faucet of that. a lot of instructors, lot of martial artists and everything, unfortunately, have forgotten that. And it's a shame because if you are teaching in the right way, you're learning more than your students.
I believe that wholeheartedly. There's a reason that teaching is an inevitable and even required aspect in I think I can say most martial arts schools, martial arts progressions.
Jeremy (01:00:08.748)
Because you learn so much and if you're not willing to be open when you're in the front of the room I think you are missing out. I my best stuff the stuff that when I'm traveling that I'm sharing with folks the best stuff generally comes From me teaching a class and something happening accidentally 100 % of what I shared yesterday came from accidents in class going Okay, they're not getting it the way I want them to get it. How do I get them from where?
they are to their let's try this snap that worked cool all right all right we got to remember that let's take some notes on that and let's continue to explore that yeah right and and I'm a better instructor because of it yeah yeah the more open you are to to all avenues you know it doesn't mean you have to follow off them but the more open you are to them you know you know and especially you know one of the one of my pet peeves and my frustrations is when
You know, it's partially that ego, it's also partially that defense of your own art is the ones that, well, my art's, Darmart's the best, and we've all heard this, well this art's absolutely pure in itself, and this is the best one for all these things. It's like, okay, well, basically,
There is no pure arts anymore. They've all been influenced whether they've, you know, by other instructors and when they created, were, yeah. Every one of go back, read the source material from everything we have documented. Every single art was cobbled together from other stuff in the same way that Kaji Kenpo was. They just, you know, did it for longer and they weren't super forward about, here's how we came up with the name. Yeah. Kaji Kenpo, especially, mean, we, they're
Tumpai is pretty much the redheaded stepchild of the Kaja Kimbo system. It's one because the other three styles are still hard styles and they're very similar. Tumpai shot off and basically carried the foundation, but it made huge changes in the way a lot of it was done. so, you know...
Jeremy (01:02:22.795)
I've heard the arguments and I've heard even between the traditionals and things like that of well, art's this and it's, we don't want to venture, move away from that traditional and everything and it's like we don't include these things or we don't want to look at, keep an open mind adding things in. It's like.
We started off as a mixed martial art. Why would we be, why would we have objections to adding more things in or changing aspects when we started off that way and the whole thing was developed by taking a whole conglomeration of things and shoving it together? And my response, I think, is even more fundamental. Okay, so you're saying you never want it to get better. Because something can't improve unless it changes. is a natural law.
That was one of the things with Kaji Campbell and what a lot of have forgotten is that C. Joe's Adriano Emperado is looked at as the primary founder of Kaji Campbell. But unlike a lot of...
instructors are founders of systems that say, well this is the tradition, this is the way it's supposed to be passed down, all the instructors are technically supposed to keep passing it down in this fashion only. He didn't do that. He actually left it open to where the instructors could change things and where they could alter or add things in if necessary for their students and for their own instructor. Most...
style founders when we get to the original style. Not the offshoot of the offshoot of the offshoot. But when we go back, I'm not aware of anyone, and someone can check me on this, but I'm not aware of anyone who founded a macro level style that we still have today that said this needs to remain perfectly as is for infinity. They all had that attitude of this is what I put together, here you go, run with it.
Jeremy (01:04:31.104)
and change it, grow it, improve it. Yeah. And the unfortunate part is that somewhere between that point when it started and now you have people in between, it's not supposed to alter, it's not supposed to change. You know the one I find most ironic? Which one? Chikunda. Yeah. And less people think that I'm being critical. For me, this is a philosophical debate.
I do see a lot of value in approaching an art as a historical artistic pursuit like here is the heart here the hard edges of the box. What does that look like because that's how I approach forms cut them right like this is the content as I was taught.
And those edges give me something to explore within. And that's fun, right? Like, okay, so if this is all we had available to us, if I couldn't take in this cool thing I learned over there, how would I solve this problem? And I think academically, that's really, really interesting. I think there's a lot of value there. you know, in Kata forms alone, know, Kata, Pinyans, forms, whatever you call them in your system is...
we played with this yesterday. The simple fact, this is a form, you know, we can change it, we can add things to it, and it's still gonna have the same primary.
Alright, foundation, right? But the other thing is that we did, which a lot of people have lost, that, well, these are the techniques and this is what this does and this is the only way that it does this. Well, we did it just yesterday, okay? Three different ways of doing the same thing. Or the interpretation of like, just because I moved this way now, alright, how many different things can actually be done from that?
Jeremy (01:06:24.896)
It's not just simply that form. It's not just simply this step and that's the only thing, you know, and there's unfortunately there's a lot that, this is the tradition. This is the way it was passed down and this is the only way that it can be used or utilized. I think a lot of people want to be right. I think they want the correct way because then they can check the box and move on. And I don't believe martial arts is check the box and move on. And for some people that's really frustrating.
I think it's the beauty. The biggest part that they have lost is the medium of martial arts is military arts. Combat. There is absolutely nothing that is in the box, perfect square edges about combat. It is going to be the most chaotic, absolutely...
It's controlled chaos. Watch any video of an actual fight. It's messy. is no absolute rights or wrongs. There is no absolutes when comes to that. So why if ours is technically military arts?
Why would we try and say the same thing to trying to cram it into one little box check? It's like you said check the boxes or sit there and assume that all right Everything that we do is control aboard that it's only one way. Let's be good. Right? mean, that's that's the only reason
Maybe not the only reason. think that's the main reason. They want to feel good that, okay, I know this. I've checked this box. I can move on. can, you know, if this, then that, my rank reflects my boxes being checked, right? However, they're going to look at it. And, you know,
Jeremy (01:08:09.888)
I would rather someone be training in that way with that stuff than not at all. But I do think you're missing out on a lot. And to tell the audience, we worked through, we made a form, a nimbly short form. We worked through it together.
And there were some, we were given some parameters with two different styles, with two different styles. And I was trying to adapt my stuff to kind of your philosophy, right? So it didn't feel like Kajikambo move karate move, right? Kajikambo move. Right. And it went through together pretty well. And actually I can still remember it. there was some fun stuff in there and you got me thinking, right? And, that's my favorite thing is, okay, your response from here is this.
I see enough of what you were thinking and that's really interesting to me and I like letting the wheels turn because if I come up with something cool enough, if I learn something interesting enough, well now I'm adapting my own personal art and I believe everybody has their own personal art because we're smaller guys.
So we're going to solve a problem differently than someone who is six, four or differently than someone who is a 12 year old child who's, you know, four, eight. Right. Like, like it, there has to be some level of individualization. I think ignoring that is, is somewhere between sad and foolish. Well, you you brought up ego, but it's not always just, it's not always ego. Sometimes it's just simply that.
the instructors haven't been open enough to learn anything else. So they're stuck then with what can I teach them? Well, I can only teach them what I've learned. I don't have anything else to draw from.
Jeremy (01:10:01.602)
You know, and the other unfortunate part is that you're dealing with a lot of instructors and it's a good thing. It goes back to, know, it's better be a warrior in a garden. right. Katarra.com. Yeah, right there. But it's, it also deals with, okay, a lot of instructors in the world have never actually had to utilize the things, which is great because we want to, we always want to be defensive and not, okay, I'm looking for that fight.
But at the same time, there's a lot of things. It's like, and my seminar yesterday, I brought it up. How many times have you gone through as a student, or even as an instructor, and wondering, was this really gonna work? So you're just basing on, okay, well, I was taught this way, so I went with my instructor, he said it's going to work. I've given it to you, okay, that yes, it's gonna work, but there's always gonna be that little tiny bit that badens back. They're like.
I'm not 100 % and the unfortunate part is when you have students that come back and go, that didn't work, right? Now everything starts to collapse on you and so, you know.
The best instructors are the ones that actually open themselves up to learn as much as possible. And you may not add every bit of it in. You may not be like, I'm cramming all this stuff into my new thing. But you know, my instructor.
I've told him I'm making alterations, I'm doing things, I'm changing some things. What does he say? His response to it is, okay, absolutely, can you explain why? And I can explain why, and when I can explain why, and he goes through it, he's accepting of it.
Jeremy (01:11:42.976)
If I couldn't explain why, he'd be like, well, then that doesn't make any sense. If you do not have a valid reason as to why, all right, and how it's going to work, then why change it? And he's very open to it. mean, we teach the curriculum. This is the curriculum of, now here's the adaptions, all right? Because it means that all of that doesn't work for you, all right?
It has to be flowing. You're now controlling that chaos that is current. So you have to go into the next steps of where it is. I know, unfortunately, a lot of schools and lot of instructors don't train that. And the unfortunate part is that their students are kind of stuck only in just that one lane. There are people who advance the martial arts. There are people who pass on the martial arts. And the people who pass on the arts...
and
Jeremy (01:12:40.594)
still playing an important role because other people train because of them and maybe one of them advances the arts. Right. Right. We need both. If all of us were advancing all of the arts all the time.
that's not necessarily the way that we all move forward as well, right? Because what if all of a sudden yellow belts are advancing the arts and first aid white belts are advancing the arts, right? Like there needs to be a certain amount of context, right? We're coming back to that subject. There needs to be a certain amount of context before you could appropriately ask the why and get good answers coming out. Right. Yeah, that's, you know, and I mean, it's...
Hopefully I look at it as, you know, I'm...
I pass it on, at the same time, I want kind of a combination. I want to be pass it on, but I also want to be able to advance it to keep that level to where they can feel that they would be effective, to way they can see they would be effective. And one of my favorite things, honestly, is what ifs. I encourage my students on that. It's like, if you have a question, or you get the point and it's not working, ask the what if. Or what if, OK, we don't have a technique for this. What if somebody grabs me like this?
If I don't have an answer, right? I will actually go through and we create one. Let's figure it out. Let's figure this out how this is gonna work. Yeah, I encourage my students at end of every class who has a great question. That's exactly how I phrase it and We don't always end class with a great question but sometimes we do and they go back and they think and They feel like they can ask why or you know what about because some of my students have been in the mix and they they've had some
Jeremy (01:14:27.86)
unfortunate things happen to them so they've got context I don't I'm if I am NOT the best person to teach people self-defense I am a great person to teach you how to not get into a fight in the first place I've been able to diffuse all that you have different experiences there right so if we're talking about self-defense things
I'm going prioritize your experience over mine. But if we're talking about de-escalation for teenagers, maybe that's a subject I've got that you don't know. And both are valuable. It's all valuable. Yeah. Because if you can avoid it in the first place, you're great. Right? But at least have basic understanding when it doesn't. Exactly. I got to be able to do something. So yeah, it's great. This has been a lot of fun. It's been a really good time. We're to have you give the...
the final words, sounds so foreboding. It doesn't mean you're gonna get stabbed as you walk off camera, but I'll have you close this up with the audience in a moment. But to the audience, if people wanna find you, social, email, web, video, that stuff. So if we found, I'm the lead instructor and owner of Grey Wolf Martial Arts in Winlock, Washington. You can find me at greywolfma.com.
We also have Facebook page which is Grey Wolf Defense and Martial Arts. We do everything from self-defense, Tai Chi, we run ages from age five all the way up to at least right now 73. We, you know...
also specialize highly in violence prevention on both like law enforcement first responders as well as the medical, know, the main programs like everyone else, you know, women's self-defense, the bully proof programs. But, you know, we also do a really good job of combining here's curriculum and here's, you know, the possibility of real life and what happens. So can be contacted, you know, easily there.
Jeremy (01:16:30.03)
The official title is Grey Wolf Defense, right? So it can also be found that way. And like I said, it's in Winlock, Washington. So it can always be contacted there.
Appreciate it very much. Thank you. Awesome. Thanks. Absolutely. So whistlekickmartialartsradio.com is the place to go for transcripts, links. We'll have all that stuff linked in the show notes. Photos, videos, any of that stuff. We mentioned a few other episodes today. You can find all those there. We don't put anything behind a paywall. Whistlekick.com is the place to go to find out about products and our events, right? Like if you're sitting there going, man, I'm in the Pacific Northwest. I didn't know about free training day. Well, you got to get on some email lists. got to pay attention
to what we're doing because I can't just show up at your house because I don't know where you live and drag you over here as much as I would like to. Thank you again to Kataro, K-A-T-A-A-R-O dot com. Use the code WK10 to save 10 percent on this great hoodie or belts or any of the other cool stuff. They do amazing rank certificates. Like they really do solid stuff and
The reason I'm so excited that we work with them is because their professional ethos in the martial arts very much lines up with ours about quality and stuff like that. but Michael, how do you want to close today? What do you want the audience to consider, remember?
as we go out the door. You know, the biggest thing is with with martial arts is is train, always train. All right. But always also train with an open mind is the keep to keep that open that, you know, and don't ever get stuck in the what this is the this is the one correct style or this is along those lines, because unfortunately, the people that you may have to defend against have a say in how things go. And so therefore, they're not always going to go according to the way that you've trained if you only if you only go one way.
Jeremy (01:18:23.748)
keep your mind open. You want to try and take in as much as possible from all different sources. Even if you don't implement everything, even tiny bits of that may be very valuable to you in the long run.