Episode 972- Director Kory Martin Juul
In today's episode Jeremy chats with Kory Martin Juul, a Hollywood visual effects artist, director, author, and martial artist currently living in New Zealand. Director Kory Martin Juul - Episode 972
SUMMARY
In this conversation, Kory Martin Juul shares his journey from a young martial arts enthusiast to a filmmaker involved in major productions like The Matrix and Lord of the Rings. He discusses the importance of storytelling in martial arts films, the cultural significance of different fighting styles, and how his experiences living in various countries have shaped his understanding of martial arts. Kory emphasizes the deeper philosophical aspects of martial arts training and how they can inspire personal growth beyond physical skills. In this conversation, Kory Martin Juul shares his extensive journey through martial arts, highlighting the physical, mental, and spiritual transformations he experienced over the years. He discusses the evolution of his training from traditional styles to a more holistic approach that incorporates diet and personal development. Kory also delves into his experiences with shamanism in the Amazon, which further expanded his understanding of healing and consciousness. Finally, he reveals his passion for storytelling through film, specifically his project 'White Tiger Legend,' which aims to convey the deeper lessons of martial arts beyond mere physicality. He discusses how asking 'why' can lead to deeper understanding and mastery, and how a focus on fewer techniques can enhance learning and retention. The conversation also touches on the philosophical implications of martial arts training and its impact on life beyond the dojo.
TAKEAWAYS
• His background in filmmaking includes working on iconic films like The Matrix and Avatar.
• He emphasizes the cultural significance of different martial arts styles in films.
• Kory's journey reflects the impact of martial arts on personal development.
• He highlights the engagement level in martial arts training compared to other sports.
• Kory's experiences in various cultures have enriched his martial arts perspective.
• He sees martial arts as a means of personal enlightenment and growth.Kory's passion for choreography stems from his visual effects work in films.
• Training in multiple styles allowed for a deeper understanding of martial arts.
• Physical training led to changes in diet and overall health.
• Spiritual elements of martial arts emerged through practice and katas.
• Experiencing shamanism opened new pathways for healing and growth.
• Martial arts training empowers personal development and self-discovery.
• Creating a film was a way to share martial arts knowledge with a broader audience.
• The fight scenes in films should advance the story, not just showcase skills.
• Kory's journey reflects a transformation from physical training to mental and spiritual growth.
• The film 'White Tiger Legend' aims to convey the deeper meanings of martial arts.
• Rediscovery in martial arts is essential for personal growth.
• Asking 'why' is crucial for understanding and evolution.
• Mental training is as important as physical training.
• Kung Fu represents mastery, not just a set of techniques.
• Focus can significantly enhance achievement in any field.
• Training in martial arts can lead to unexpected life paths.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction to Kory Martin Juul and His Work
06:07 Martial Arts and Film: A Personal Journey
09:00 Cinematic Storytelling and Martial Arts
12:01 Living in Different Cultures and Their Impact
15:03 The Role of Martial Arts in Film Production
17:50 The Philosophy Behind Martial Arts Training
21:54 Returning to Martial Arts: A Journey of Rediscovery
24:47 The Evolution of Training: From Basics to Advanced Styles
27:57 The Spiritual Awakening Through Martial Arts
30:42 Exploring Shamanism: A New Path of Healing
32:53 The Intersection of Martial Arts and Personal Development
39:53 Creating a Film: The Vision Behind 'White Tiger Legend'
51:35 Rediscovering Martial Arts
54:10 The Importance of Asking 'Why'
58:29 Kung Fu: Mastery Beyond Techniques
01:00:28 The Journey of Personal Growth
01:02:24 The Impact of Martial Arts on Life
Show Notes
To connect with Kory Martin Juul:
http://www.whitetigerlegend.com
http://www.youtube.com/whitetigerlegend
http://www.twitter.com/@whitetigerfilm
http://www.facebook.com/whitetigerlegend
This episode is sponsored by Kataaro. Please check out their site at Kataaro Custom Martial Arts Products - Kataaro. And use the code WK10 to save 10% off your first order. And be sure to ask them about a wholesale account for school owners!
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Show Transcript
Jeremy (09:30.188)
Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome back to Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio. And on today's episode, I'm joined by Kory Martin Juul. Corey, thanks for being here. I appreciate it. Our pre-show chat, if we want to call it that, I know we're getting into some cool stuff. Audience, you know what? I'm not even going to tell you. I'm not even going to tell you the things that this man has worked on and I'm pumped. But before we get there, remember.
Whistlekick is here to serve the traditional martial arts community. We are here to connect, educate and entertain all of you out there, no matter what you do, no matter where you are, because we believe that training for just six months changes people. And if the more people we can change, the more we can change the world. So your support in that means a lot to us, lots of ways you can support us. Check out whistlekick.com, check out whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com for everything related to this episode and the other episodes we've done.
And a special shout out to Kataaro for sponsoring this episode, k-a-t-a-a-r-o.com. Everything from the world's best martial arts belts to some fun apparel, belt bags, key chains. They print custom certificates. If you haven't checked out what they've done recently, because they're adding stuff, just like we do, they add stuff all the time. Please do, kataaro.com and use the code WK10 to save 10 % on your first order. Thank you again to Kotaro. But Kory, thank you.
for being here and joining us on Marshall Arts Radio.
Kory Martin Juul (10:58.156)
Thank you, Jeremy. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to share. Yeah.
Jeremy (10:59.896)
Yeah, yeah, this is gonna be fun. And we should acknowledge first off, because you said two things before we got here, that you're in New Zealand and it's 8 a.m. and you're not a morning person. So.
Kory Martin Juul (11:14.968)
Yeah, really, I'm a night owl and I get a lot done at night. So yeah, we're on the other sides of the world and it's pretty exciting times that we can do this.
Jeremy (11:20.398)
Yeah.
Jeremy (11:25.976)
Yeah, yeah, this is cool. It wasn't that long ago we wouldn't have been able to do this, right? We would have been emailing back and forth and said, okay, when are you gonna be here? When am I gonna be there? And kind of figuratively holding our calendars up to each other, looking for that intersection. But now with technology, as long as we can make the time zone stuff work, we can talk to anyone.
Kory Martin Juul (11:46.289)
Yeah.
Kory Martin Juul (11:50.492)
Exactly, and the streaming is just so fast now. mean, we're on islands. When I'm not here in New Zealand, I'm in Hawaii. And it's just amazing you can be in some of the most remote places in the world and still have access to everybody. So it's really a gift.
Jeremy (12:01.314)
Yeah, yeah, and now with various satellite internet, know, Starlink, et cetera, even those areas that maybe they weren't so good, now you can do it there too. And from what I hear, Starlink's pretty good.
Kory Martin Juul (12:16.24)
Yeah, did you see the robots that Tesla just came out with? I was thinking those would be some great sparring partners.
Jeremy (12:23.746)
You know, okay. You've seen the show How I Met Your Mother.
Kory Martin Juul (12:29.531)
No, I haven't actually. Yeah.
Jeremy (12:30.228)
Okay, okay, great show, great show. And actually we've talked about it on this show a couple times before because it was from a recurring sub theme in that show that the world really got ready for Cobra Kai, which is kind of fun. So if you're all a fan of that series, go watch. But there's something that comes up a couple times in that show, robots versus wrestlers.
Kory Martin Juul (12:57.806)
yeah.
Jeremy (12:58.006)
And it's always made me wonder, so it's fun that you bring it up. What would it be like if we had robot sparring partners? You know, we'd have, we'd certainly have to throttle it down because I don't know about you, but I have a hard time kicking wood, let alone kicking metal or, or carbon fiber plastic. I don't want to break my shins.
Kory Martin Juul (13:11.484)
Yeah.
Sure, but for targeting and finding, you know, spots and making sure it's, you know, getting the timing. Yeah. You could just do some simple things that you wouldn't have to, you know, have your hand up like usually with the human, you know, and you could really get in there. Those things were coming to mind when the guy was pouring all the little TikTok videos I saw from the Elon Musk party. Yeah. That'd be really cool.
Jeremy (13:18.638)
Yeah.
Jeremy (13:41.166)
We'll see maybe we can maybe we can partner with Tesla and make our make a whistle kick Tesla sparring partner Elon if you're watching let me know we'll we'll make it happen. You're gonna have to do all the work I'll just put a sticker on it. That's about all I'll able to contribute to that
Kory Martin Juul (13:50.384)
Yeah.
Kory Martin Juul (13:59.206)
I'm sure he'd be down with it. He seems like a really cool guy. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy (14:01.15)
He does. He does. All right. So let's start here because you said Hawaii, New Zealand. You mentioned before you're American. How does how does one end up on the other side of the world and seemingly hone in on islands as places of residence?
Kory Martin Juul (14:19.836)
Yeah, well, my dad was in the Navy, the US Navy. And so we've always lived near water. And I just kind of gravitated towards places that were warm and tropical and water. So I grew up in Florida, started martial arts in Florida. I then moved to Virginia, Italy and Spain. Then I got into filmmaking and that set me off on my journeys around the world to New Zealand, working on Lord of the Rings, King Kong, Avatar.
California, worked on the matrix. So anywhere there's a beach or, you know, technology and martial arts, I've tried to get involved. And then I moved to Hawaii after California. I always wanted, I was born there and I always wanted to move back when I retired because it's very expensive there. But at some point, you know, life just worked out in a way where I was like, what am I waiting for? Let me just go do what I want to do now and let it work out. And and it has, so every now and then I do have to leave Hawaii. Like I came down recently to New Zealand.
Jeremy (15:03.416)
Hmm.
Kory Martin Juul (15:18.588)
to work for a couple months and then I'll be going back and enjoying. But yeah, so I've been very fortunate to be able to live in some really great places and you learn a lot when you live in different cultures and different places, as well as visiting China and other countries, just purely for martial arts, yeah.
Jeremy (15:30.84)
more.
Jeremy (15:38.478)
Yeah, you you mentioned some films that I love, you know, the Matrix franchise, I think is wonderful. We've had some folks that have been part of that from the stunt side on the show. And, you know, to me, Lord of the Rings is probably the best example of cinematic storytelling that, in my opinion, right? Like, I mean, some people might go to head with me on Star Wars, but, you know, I think Lord of the Rings does it better.
but there's still, there's combat in there, right? Show me a great story that doesn't have some combat, that doesn't have something that's at least martial arts adjacent.
Kory Martin Juul (16:19.292)
Yeah, definitely. And the great thing about those films in particular is they really got into the worlds. Like if you go into Agent Smith, he fights for Botical. If you go into the other characters, Neo is more fluid. You get into the elves, they have their own systematic style of fighting versus the Uruk-Kai and the orcs. And it's all been very well thought out and choreographed. And that's really, as a martial artist, it's exciting to see the different types of styles and stuff.
because that's an expression of their culture, even though it's a made up culture. But even in the past, in the 70s, like you'd watch some of those 70s films and, you know, we kind of write them off because it was pre Bruce Lee and it wasn't very effective looking, but they were showcasing. Like if you went on an eagle style, let's say that you were watching Eagle for the first time. So the guy was doing as many moves as possible to demonstrate what this was about more so than this is how I'm going to, you know, beat my opponent.
And so when you look at it that way, then you can appreciate it. But now it's more like MMA and stuff, and it's very combat effective oriented instead of a showcase. And so it's cool when you see like multiple fights, like in the Matrix, when Neo gets better and better and better and better, you can see his development and just the, you know, the growth of the character, not just as a character, but as a fighter and as he gets better and to see that play out.
It's very cool to watch when you start looking for those subtle details.
Jeremy (17:50.54)
For sure. Now, I think I need to ask, you're involved in films. What is your role? you working? Because you clearly spoke with a lot of passion about that aspect, things that a lot of people aren't even gonna notice in fight choreo. So is that where you're working on films?
Kory Martin Juul (18:10.236)
No, I really got into the fight choreography when I started doing my own film. But when I was young and I'm going to backtrack just a little bit. When I was young in Florida, I first started martial arts when I was about six or seven in a Korean style called Taksudo. And after we left, as I said, we were in the military, we moved quite a bit. I could never find another similar style. There was Taekwondo, there was other things, but some of the countries we moved to, there wasn't anything I
Jeremy (18:20.759)
Yeah, please.
Kory Martin Juul (18:39.856)
felt comfortable doing. But once I got back to California, was working on the Matrix film as a visual effects artist. That's the role that I usually do in films. And that's towards the end of the film where we're adding the characters with whatever's fake or removing the backgrounds, making it all look seamless. And every day, just for fun, we could see clips of Dragon and the other choreographers doing stuff, the fight scenes. And you have to look at them for reference.
going to make Agent Smith. I worked on more of the battle stuff than the Neo Smith fights, but I would still watch that stuff every day and it was very inspiring. And so you're seeing, you know, let me try a triple spin instead of a double spin and you're seeing them work this stuff out and it's all captured there on video. And I'm like, I got to get back out and start moving. So I went back down the street. I found a martial arts school, picked it back up and started learning Kenpo and Kung Fu. And so that's where I began.
my journey to a black belt again. But yeah, that's where it came from. So yeah, I'm on the technical end, but I really love choreography and I'm not on set with those guys, but we get to see that stuff all the time. And yeah, it's really inspiring.
Jeremy (19:56.878)
Nice. So, you know, here we have yet another example of martial arts in movies getting people to train, but, you know, in a slightly different way. I don't know that we've had anybody that was working on the movie.
Kory Martin Juul (20:05.5)
Jeremy (20:15.628)
the editing side, the the effect side. We've had actors who went, wow, I like this, I want to go deeper on it. But cool.
Kory Martin Juul (20:26.081)
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. Like even when I was a boy, like we did, like I saying, Tang Soo Do and the teacher there was very good. Like I liked playing baseball and soccer, but I didn't really gravitate towards it. The thing about martial arts was that all the time you were engaged, like in baseball, you only got to bat once every once in a while. And then soccer, sometimes the ball was way over there. But in karate, you were always on like all the whole class.
Jeremy (20:42.35)
Hmm.
Jeremy (20:52.109)
Yeah.
Kory Martin Juul (20:54.208)
And so that was really great for me. But it wasn't until I saw the Karate Kid in the theaters when it came out and they took us all, you know, the whole school, we got tickets, we went to see it. That was really like it took it to another level. And I really, know, Mr. Miyagi and the philosophy and all the stuff that goes behind what we're doing. We're not just punching and kicking like what is the purpose here and that personal journey that people go through and then enlightenment and
We can go through all that, however far we want to go, but that is the real juice, you know? And the hook is the action, like, look, check that out, check that move out, check this out. That was amazing. But then as you develop personally, the real juices is in the other things that aren't seen on screen.
Jeremy (21:43.512)
Hmm. Yeah, no, I'm, I'm with you. I'm absolutely with you there. So you start training in Kempo and of course, California is a, is a hotbed of Kempo and how long had you, had you been out of training?
Kory Martin Juul (21:45.372)
from my personal take, yeah, yeah.
Kory Martin Juul (21:54.139)
Mm-hmm.
Kory Martin Juul (22:04.499)
Probably 15 years. Yeah, I've been playing soccer. Yeah, it was a while. Yeah.
Jeremy (22:08.427)
Okay, that's a while, a while. What was it like going back?
Kory Martin Juul (22:15.516)
It was a kind of a breath of fresh air at first because a lot of things just came back that were muscle memory. But I also got to see how much I was going to be able to grow. Like when I was young, I couldn't understand the differences in soft style and Kenpo. And we began with Shotokan, which was extremely rigid. And they want you to start with the basics. And so it was fun to just lock those punches out again, get into that horse stance.
Jeremy (22:36.974)
Yeah.
Kory Martin Juul (22:45.622)
and just exercise like that primal, know, here in New Zealand, I don't know if you've ever seen the rugby team, they do that haka at the beginning and they really get into it and it's a really good expression of, I'll say positive.
Jeremy (22:56.663)
Yeah, actually.
Kory Martin Juul (23:06.126)
aggression. And in our culture, we don't have any outlets like that. And so to be able to go from behind my desk where I was working out, you know, physically clicking a mouse and making cool stuff to be able to physically exert myself in a positive way was was very invigorating in it. And it feels great. mean, that's bottom line is you feel great every time you walk out of the school. You feel great. Yeah.
Jeremy (23:11.886)
Hmm.
Jeremy (23:28.43)
Hmm.
Kory Martin Juul (23:34.394)
Yeah. So that was my initial, I was like, I'm back, know, here we go. Yeah.
Jeremy (23:34.798)
Right on.
Jeremy (23:40.366)
and you know, you're training Kempo, you're feeling good and how long, I mean, obviously you've left there physically, because you're physically not there, but how long were you training in that school?
Kory Martin Juul (23:56.122)
training there for about seven, seven to eight years. It starts with a Shotokan, like I was saying, and then you move into Kempo, which is hard, soft, and then you move into same school. They call it a master. Yeah.
Jeremy (24:07.048)
this is the same school. Okay, I missed something in there. Okay, you did say that, but it didn't land. The same school is taking you through a multi-style progression. Interesting.
Kory Martin Juul (24:15.558)
Yes.
Yes. so the final step would be five animals of kung fu. We did tiger, snake, crane, dragon, and panther or leopard. They're about very similar. yeah, so that was a full journey. then that's, you know, the physical aspects, but you also have the, as you start working out more, you have to change your diet. You know, it's up to you how far you want to go, but
you start cleaning your body out. And then the school never got into anything spiritual. Like they pretty much stripped it. I don't know if that's a result of, you know, the lineage of the people that we learned from. It kind of went from Matosi to William Chow to Ed Parker. And then he put the belts in and then it became very systematized. So the people that we learned from came from that lineage. And so things were very systematic, but
There's a deeper spiritual element that just kind of starts to happen as you work out and as you do katas and you start to understand the way you feel when you do a kata after you've done it right. It's kind of, I don't know if anybody's golfed, but you hit the golf, you you hit it just right. And then you get addicted to this present moment, oneness sensation that you can't put your finger on when.
your first training because none of that was discussed with me. was just these are the moves. This is what you do. But this stuff starts happening and then your body's cleaning out. You have to change your diet at some point because you're working out for so long that in order to just be able to continue to train at a level that you want to be at, you need to incorporate new things. And then you start to learn, hang on a minute, what I'm putting into my body has a tremendous effect on the way I feel and the way.
Kory Martin Juul (26:16.174)
able to perform. And so that became a journey for me as well, seeing different things. And at the moment, I'm a raw foodist, plant-based, but I did go for a year entirely on meat. I was eating eggs and boiled steak just for the protein. That was what the guidance was. And then I started asking myself, you know, the Shaolin monks are completely vegetarian. Do I need this meat? Like my dad's dad passed on from a heart attack. Is there another way to do this?
Jeremy (26:24.364)
Hmm.
Kory Martin Juul (26:46.254)
And you get to go through the experience yourself of, me try this and see how I feel. Has this affecting my performance in the martial arts? Yeah. So there's a lot of learning, a broad spectrum of things that you just, when you go in the door thinking you're going to do some punching and kicking and kicking, but you just come out the other end, a completely different person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy (26:54.254)
Hmm
Jeremy (27:10.722)
Yeah. So you mentioned that this school in California, you you felt it kind of removed what you're calling the spiritual aspects of training.
Kory Martin Juul (27:15.708)
Mm-hmm.
Kory Martin Juul (27:21.986)
Thanks.
Jeremy (27:23.564)
So where did you get that? Was it a personal journey? You said, wait a second, there's something here? Or was it another school that introduced that to
Kory Martin Juul (27:31.628)
No, it was intuitive, just I'm gonna say the motions themselves maybe had something to do with the way that your body awakens. Combined with the cleaner diet, was more clear. But doing katas, a lot of times people poo poo katas because they're not physical enough or combative enough, but okay, awesome.
Jeremy (27:57.654)
Not me. Not me.
Kory Martin Juul (28:00.378)
The motions themselves, there's a particular style in China called grasping higher consciousness, zing yi ba, I think, I'm maybe not pronouncing it correctly. If you watch the guys, they have extremely winding, twisting motions, and they're basically wringing themselves out like a squeegee. The motions themselves and the fluidity of it is unlocking your Qi meridians.
I've gone a long way through healing as well. Once you learn to destroy the body, then you start to learn to heal the body. And I believe that the twisting motions in those katas was actually awakening some sort of much like a meditation, a deeper awareness. And then you feel that connection when you're done with the kata, you feel like a million bucks. You're like, you don't really know what's going on, but every time you do that, you just keep going back to, want to feel good. Let me go through that again.
you then you start to learn a little bit that it's connected to your mind and your mindset. But all those spiritual elements came full circle at the end after my black belt. I went to the Amazon jungle and I studied with some shamans there and they taught me some shamanism and shamanism. If you look it up in Wikipedia, it's one of the most primal religions they call it, but it's really, I'd almost call it close to Star Wars.
where you are connecting and defining spaces and you're actually fighting, but it's entirely mental. And yeah, so you begin to train your mind in defining spaces. And when I say space, I mean the area around you, like the space I'm in now, the kitchen. Yeah, yeah. No, it's okay. It's okay, I'm going on,
Jeremy (29:48.434)
Yeah, so I hope I'm not cutting you off, but I want to go back because you presented the idea that, I earned my black belt and then I went and I lived in the Amazon. As if that is a thing that people do trivially and they don't. I mean, unless you're running in way different circles than I am, how does that happen?
Kory Martin Juul (30:08.124)
Later.
Kory Martin Juul (30:13.222)
Yeah, so I got to the end, towards the end of my black belt, and there's this movie that my teacher showed me called Circle of Iron. And I don't know if you've seen it, it's one of the last Bruce Lee films, and it was made after Bruce Lee died. And in this film, at the end, he looks into a book, and he has to make this decision if he's going to stay with the martial arts group, or if he's gonna go out into the world and train on his own.
Jeremy (30:27.182)
Okay.
Kory Martin Juul (30:42.44)
And this looking into the book, he sees his own reflection and that's the same as the dragon scroll and Kung Fu Panda. It's the same in the new karate kid when he looks into the dragon pool. So I was given this choice of, I going to stay with the school or am I going to go off into the world and teach? And there was a relationship involved as well. I don't really want to get into it with someone else. And that
Jeremy (31:08.408)
for sure.
Kory Martin Juul (31:11.066)
was not going the way I had anticipated. And so physically, I needed some healing. And I was looking in to just synchronistically, I was working with some friends. They were at ILM at Lucas and they'd saw this documentary about the shamans in the Amazon. And this documentary needed visual effects done on it to demonstrate what was going on. And I was looking at this and I was going, holy cow, if what this is is true, this is the
the most amazing thing I've ever seen. And I need to check this out. So I got on a plane and I went to the Amazon and that's when I met the shaman. There was a Western shaman there who had been training with indigenous people. So he was able to kind of be a liaison between their, different worlds, because it's a completely different world. Their, their fundamentals are completely different. And so that healing process is what
opened me up to my next stage of training. So in a way, some of our biggest obstacles become, you know, guideposts or something to a new direction. And that was the connection there. Yeah.
Jeremy (32:22.711)
and how long were you there?
Kory Martin Juul (32:24.636)
I went multiple times. didn't stay there, but I went probably been six or seven times and Yeah for you know, you go for several weeks and you go through pretty intensive Well, it's a combination of ceremonies and and your own personal process of unwinding and and growing personal development and at that point, you know, I will say that martial arts is
very very empowering on a personal development level. Like you become a better person and the shamanism breaks you out into more of a global, not global, larger consciousness where you no longer are concerned with your own personal development. It's more of a, it's bigger than that. So you are, you're opening yourself up to more and yeah.
So it seemed like a logical next step and that led into the healing which took me to Wudang and I started learning some the traditional Chinese medicine and being able to see that. You know, and you were talking about earlier the way the things were stripped out and a lot of it was the reasons for that were because it wasn't understood and you didn't want to come across as woo woo or talking about stuff that you didn't have any experience about. So
Whenever I talk about things, it's all from personal experience. So I didn't believe in Chi. I didn't believe in any of these concepts until I actually physically was able to feel them and experience them. yeah.
Jeremy (34:04.642)
Yeah, it's, you know, as as Westerners, we are kind of raised in a at least loosely scientific approach, even those of us that were there are raised in very religious households have a very, you know, cause and effect.
I don't believe until I see it sort of mindset. And I think you're right. I think a lot of martial arts schools, even the instructors that have some of these ideas, and I'll include myself in there, I don't talk to my students about this stuff early on. And granted, my school is new. So I don't have anybody that's been training with me 10, 20 years. So maybe I would as they get further along.
But I think that's because it's difficult for students to understand certain things that require context until they have the context. Until they've been through this stuff, you can say it, they can hear it, they can even believe it, but do they get it?
Kory Martin Juul (35:03.173)
Mm.
Kory Martin Juul (35:09.212)
Yeah.
Jeremy (35:10.946)
And then you get somebody that maybe doesn't fully get it and then they go off and they teach and they don't have that aspect. And I think that's a lot of what happened as martial arts were brought to the West post-World War II. A lot of those people were training a year or two. They understood the moves, but did they understand the deeper meaning?
Kory Martin Juul (35:32.112)
Yeah, and I think that deeper meaning is kind of starting to see the light of day now. I mean, it's in a lot of the films and that's part of what I'm trying to share with the film that I'm working on as well is getting the deeper concepts across because like we were talking about earlier, the punching and kicking is the hook. Like if you're into yoga, like you are already gravitating towards something kind of spiritual, but the people that are gravitating towards martial arts aren't
going to martial arts to learn how to meditate. That's the last thing on their mind. They wanna go kick butt, feel good, develop themselves. And it's the same thing though. It's the way the universe is reaching out and connecting with you on a level that you're ready for to pull you on the same journey. And we're all going on this same journey, which is returning to the core of who we all really are. And I can't.
I can put it in some different terms, but I don't want to turn off the audience at all with any preconceived notions is really what it is because it's a stripping away of our concepts of what we think it is and then opening up to a bigger picture.
Jeremy (36:43.138)
Yeah, yeah, it's some point when you look at at least my understanding of all the religions that I understand, right, which is not certainly not all of them and definitely not even most of them at a deep level. But through all of them, it does mirror martial arts training in that as you get further, you have to put aside some things you have to cultivate some vulnerability and you get to a certain point. And you realize there is.
connection and and and I think you know if you look at Maslow's pyramid I think that that's what a lot in the West would call self-actualization is that that not just logical belief but that that entrenched understanding that we are all connected and martial arts I mean from from for me I'm more comfortable being vulnerable because I know I have a backup plan
right, whether that is physical or emotional or whatever. And I think that that is something that others feel as well.
Kory Martin Juul (37:50.608)
Yeah, you have a grounding in something that's, yeah. Yeah, and that's something that you build as through your, know, from my own point, building through like boxing and being in the ring and sparring and taking the punches and learning that, you know, hey, I'm still here, I'm okay, even though I just lost. And there's a lot of losing in martial arts, which develops you into overcoming. And then from overcoming, eventually you find that you're...
Jeremy (37:53.272)
Yeah.
Kory Martin Juul (38:19.77)
just really fighting yourself this whole time. You have been fighting yourself. And when you come to the peace with that, then you're like rounded in, you know, everything's going to be okay regardless. And then, you know, people ask, do I still physically train? And it's like, I don't feel the need to be able to protect myself in that way. It's all going to come out when it needs to, but the training has become mental. with the, to connect back to the shamanism, you start defining your space and
If someone comes up to me and is aggressive or whatever, you can dispel that. You can feel the energy that they're coming with. You can work it. You can move it. You can make a joke about it. There are so many ways to deal with it besides going toe to toe. And that's just really, to have that toolkit is just amazing to be able to avoid confrontation that's unnecessary and to spend more time feeling.
joy and happiness and uplifting those people as they come to you that have these things because everybody's got a thing that they a trauma or something that hits somebody in their life that they have got to then overcome or it's going to wreck them. And so as martial artists, we learn to overcome those, but many people are still on the journey of learning to overcome. And, know, we're here for those people to help them to, to, to be their best. Yeah.
Jeremy (39:45.048)
Yeah. All right, so you've mentioned it a couple of times. We've got to talk about it. Movie? You're working on a movie? Tell us about this movie.
Kory Martin Juul (39:53.744)
Yeah, so after Avatar, watched, when we were working on Avatar, we got to see the entire low quality version of the film before it was made. And so we watched it every day and James Cameron would say, make it look like this. He would constantly reference the low quality version he did. So in 2005, I wrote a script for a film that was gonna teach kids.
But there was another film called Kung Fu Panda being made at the same time. And so I could never get my film funded. And so I took it upon myself and it was similar. Yeah. And I would have arguments, you know, like, Hey, you know, there's deep impact and there was another movie Armageddon at the same time. There's lots of similar competing movies, Bugs Life and Ants, you know, they were coming out like, let's do that. You know, we can have two. There's more than enough.
Jeremy (40:24.418)
Hmm. Because it was sim- because it was seen as too similar.
Kory Martin Juul (40:47.792)
The plan was in 2008, the Beijing Olympics, everything was about China and it was the perfect time to launch. But the Kung Fu Panda budget was so massive compared to what they were willing to fund for mine. They didn't feel that it was a worthwhile adventure. It was good business sense not to make it, but it left me hanging. So I eventually took it upon myself to make the film myself because it's really hard to get someone to read a script.
And so in 2010, after watching Avatar and seeing this low quality previs, that got me inspired to make an entire film on my own at low quality. And I motion captured the whole thing. I put on the dot suit for people who don't know what motion capture is. And I choreographed all the fight scenes. I played all the characters. And I got a really great team of actors to come into the sound booth and they voiced the characters. And that really brought
Jeremy (41:30.19)
Cool, yeah.
Kory Martin Juul (41:43.632)
their own, each person's individuality to the character because I couldn't possibly embody every character if I had to create it myself. Like you see Andy Serkis and people like in King Kong and Planet of the Apes where they really are giving the performance live, like right there, they're creating the character. But for me, I was listening through speakers that were replaying the actors' voices from the sound recording.
And then I would embody the character if it was a big character or the choreographing. I would design the fight scenes. And I pretty much just created this entire film. And it's a deep martial arts experience that takes someone on the full journey that I went on from belt to black belt. But it's entertaining. It's not like a documentary, but it goes deep. Like a lot of the things that are glossed over in films like...
we get to the rocky moment of overcoming, you know, pretty early on in the film. And then from there, you go through the destruction and the recreation of the self and the deeper, the deeper connections to everything around you. We get into all that, which is a lot of the stuff in the martial arts that is not imparted to people. So yeah, it's a really different film and I'm still looking for funding. It's been incredibly difficult.
even though the film's finished at a low quality, it's an ongoing process. yeah, the book is out there. You can see the trailer. yeah, you should go to our website, whitetigerlegend.com. You can see a trailer. And then there's also a link to our book on Amazon, which really goes into a lot more of the details that I couldn't put in the film. So that's all there for people to go on. Yeah.
Jeremy (43:14.892)
Hmm. Is that something that's viewable? Or do you have to? Okay.
Jeremy (43:34.016)
There's a book too, which came first.
Kory Martin Juul (43:39.19)
the film came first. And then when I saw that it was going to take so long for it to be released to the public, I thought this is stuff people need to know now. So let me put it in a book version. And Harry Potter was big at the time and books were taking off into films. So I thought, you know, Harry Potter's got a lot of dense material in there that, and so let me get it all in there so that people can get the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they can be engaged for, for long periods of time. Yeah.
Jeremy (44:00.61)
Harry Potter proved that kids can handle substance.
Jeremy (44:07.096)
Yeah.
Kory Martin Juul (44:09.574)
Yeah, and so yeah, there's just a lot of deep knowledge in there I wanted to impart that I couldn't, I'm just glossing the surface here, you know, and I feel like I'm all over the place bouncing between the Amazon and China and yeah, yeah, but it's all in the book. So yeah, people can really get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeremy (44:17.272)
Hmm.
Jeremy (44:26.099)
awesome. And is the title of the book the same?
Kory Martin Juul (44:29.5)
White tiger legend. Yeah. Yeah. It's on Amazon.
Jeremy (44:31.032)
Tiger Legend. Okay, awesome. Yeah, we'll make sure we have links to that in the show notes for folks.
Jeremy (44:39.326)
This idea, right? This idea that you, you you do some training and you take a break and you go in and you go in so deep that you have these stories to tell. And what I'm hearing is these stories need to be told. Okay, movie. Okay, that's not going to happen. Okay, book. Right. And I imagine that, you know, you've probably considered telling the story in other mediums, right?
I consider myself a storyteller. I'm here helping you tell your story. And we've done books and I wrote a novel with the idea that it could very easily turn into a script, right? Like the choreography for me that's read the novel I wrote, you know that choreography is right there. Like it works. was playing it out as I was writing it. Have you considered telling your story in other ways?
Maybe it's facetious, you know, it looks like you're about to answer. I'm not gonna cut you off. Go.
Kory Martin Juul (45:38.908)
I feel like the film is the way to show it because it's such a visual medium. The real dense knowledge is in the book as well, but the visual storytelling is what hooked me as a boy, you know, watching the Karate Kid and watching The Matrix and all those things that I wanted to just take that same avenue. And so if it doesn't get released as a full feature film, we're considering putting like five minute episodes on YouTube for free and just doing five minutes at a time.
Jeremy (45:52.238)
Hmm.
Jeremy (46:04.43)
Mm.
Kory Martin Juul (46:08.47)
until we get to the end. And that is also a possibility. But yeah, you were talking about choreography and the way that you could see it. It's really fun to choreograph and figure out the different fights if you're in a different style, because we have different animal styles in the film. So we have tiger, we have crane, we have... And so to embody each one of those animals...
They're not fighting as animals, to do the style and to impart like, okay, now I'm going to be ultra aggressive as a tiger. How would I attack someone who's a crane? And to play that out in your mind and to then say, okay, I've seen a fight, but is this telling a story or is it just a showcase? And then you add the other element of story and what is this character's drive? And you really create these amazing fights.
The fight scenes aren't just a flash, like, okay, now we need to do a fight, now we need to do a talk, and now we need to fight again. It's really an integral part of the story and the characters' development, so it's gonna be exciting for audiences. Yeah.
Jeremy (47:19.712)
I'm pumped. want to check this out. But you mentioned something that I think is really important. And we think about the best, what I think most people can perceive as the best martial arts films, the fight scenes advance the story. They don't break the story. I've heard the same sort of things said about love scenes in a good Hollywood film versus, you know, essentially pornography, right? Where it's just
And I think most martial arts films are similar in that way that, yeah, there's a story and, okay, nobody's fought for 20 minutes. gotta have, we need these two people to be in conflict for some reason. And yeah, those fight scenes can be enjoyable, but you're skipping ahead to the quote, good parts.
Kory Martin Juul (48:10.672)
Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. And that is a huge part of choreography and learning from people in the past. I would do a lot of studying, like Bruce Lee. At the beginning, we were talking about the 70s movies. You can go back and watch any of those, and they're showcasing like we were talking about. But then Bruce Lee came in, and he was like, OK, I'm going to show the combat effectiveness of this. One kick, one punch is all it's really going to take to take somebody out.
And then he took everybody out and people were like, whoa, this is awesome. Like I want to be able to do this. And then Jackie Chan came in with his humor and then Jet Li came in and Jet Li, he really incorporated a lot of boxing. Like he tried to make his wushu a little bit more combat effective. And, and those were amazing films, but yeah, they were all based on, and even the karate kid films, like they're all driven by story. And so.
Yeah, it's not just superfluous flipping around to flip around. Yeah.
Jeremy (49:13.794)
No, know, and long time members of the audience know my favorite martial arts film is Crouching Tiger, Crouching Tiger, Hint Dragon. Ironically, I hate subtitles in movies, but that movie just still has such a special place in my heart. And every one of those fight scenes, you know, for, for if somebody doesn't understand what we're talking about here, the idea that a fight scene can advance a story, go watch that. Even if you,
Kory Martin Juul (49:20.796)
So...
Kory Martin Juul (49:27.568)
Hmm.
Jeremy (49:42.422)
If you don't care, try not to care, try to mute it and tell me that you don't get through some of those fight scenes and say, wait a second, I need to know what's going on. I feel like there's an advancement here even through the combat. It's powerful.
Kory Martin Juul (50:02.332)
Yeah, yeah, it is. You'll like this. I got to go to China and film at the Shunen Bamboo Sea, which is where Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, with all the treetop sequences where they were filmed. it's a massive forest, just all of bamboo and some beautiful lakes. And yeah, yeah, I filmed there for some sequences of our film and I shooting background plates. Yeah. We'll put the characters in there later. Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah, it's so great. China is a massive country. I don't know if you had a chance to go, but there's so many diverse areas and
Jeremy (50:08.891)
cool. Yeah.
Jeremy (50:22.325)
wow. that's awesome.
Kory Martin Juul (50:32.326)
I would get on that train overnight and then the next place I would show up in a completely different province, have to just get out there and film whatever area, whether it was the desert or like the bamboo sea and everybody speaks a slightly different language. Everybody was so welcoming and the range of martial arts was very different. Like I was really surprised when I went to Wudang and stuff, like there was amazing
Jeremy (50:40.206)
Hmm.
Jeremy (50:53.431)
Hmm.
Kory Martin Juul (51:01.454)
stuff going on. And I learned a lot of healing there from teachers, but the martial arts, feels like a lot of it actually did flee China and come to America. And some of the stuff that I was learning in California, some of the styles and the forms and stuff, a lot of that stuff was lost or it's been hidden or it's not there anymore. so that was really surprising to me when I was watching demonstrations was there was amazing skill level and people and
Jeremy (51:05.902)
Mm.
Kory Martin Juul (51:31.43)
but the range, the diversity of what was being taught was much more narrow. Like, yeah, yeah.
Jeremy (51:35.874)
Yeah, I think there's something really interesting and as a self-proclaimed nerd, I really find this to be an exciting aspect of what's going on in martial arts right now because I think so much of it was, it was a combination of hidden and kept back, you know, for whatever reasons, but you do that long enough and people start to die off. And so what you're left with is a lot of people thinking that they have the full context when they don't.
Kory Martin Juul (51:42.865)
Mm.
Kory Martin Juul (51:53.317)
and
Jeremy (52:04.856)
But we're in this time now where people are saying, but wait a second, right? So I come in at it from a, from the perspective of anatomy and physiology. I believe that you don't have to spend a lot of time training to go, wait a second, this is a more efficient way to do this physically. So if we're not doing it this way, why? And I look for that. And there's been a lot of that proven out, you know, with biomechanics and everything saying, okay. So this tiny little rotation here.
is meant to engage your lats or whatever it is, right? And I see other people coming at it from different angles with applications within forms or within the spiritual stuff. We've had people on the show who've talked about a variety of these things and it's so cool to watch all this rediscovery.
Kory Martin Juul (52:56.956)
Yeah, and that's, that rediscovery is key because you read rediscovering yourself and at very core level. And yeah, there's so much, I don't know if the word's bravado or whatnot in the martial arts where you want to hype up what you've got to be the best. Everybody wants to come from Shaolin. Everybody is a descendant of the man. And, and I'm not taking away from anybody, but
there is a history of, and then when you get to the core of what is really being taught, like even Bruce Lee came back and he made a lot of people upset, but he was really trying to see the effectiveness like you were talking about, and redefining his own style. And it's important to take those things on. And that's the fun is in that discovery and, this wrist lock or this twist, or this is really how it goes. And yeah, and just making it work for you.
you know, because this is about your own journey and there is tradition and the importance of tradition is in having that rote solid foundation to start from, but then you take off from there and you bring the next evolution. Yeah.
Jeremy (54:10.734)
Yeah, what's the most important question? It's why it's the question that we ask incessantly as children. It's the question that in various forms threads through religions. And I think within martial arts, and this is something that's really important to me, our training becomes some boundaries from within which we can safely ask the question why, and it is in asking the question and finding our own answers that that personal growth happens.
Kory Martin Juul (54:41.564)
AS and rediscovery and finding out who you really are, like, and asking that question at a deeper and deeper, deeper level, like not who am I as an individual, then who am I as a, can go deeper. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy (54:44.834)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy (54:56.684)
Right, right. So much deeper, so much deeper. So you mentioned and I'm sure there are some people out there who dismiss this idea. I'm certainly not one of them, but you mentioned that your training now is not rooted in physical aspects. It's rooted in, believe you described it as mental aspects. I think that was the word you used. Okay. Can you just...
Kory Martin Juul (55:22.48)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy (55:25.314)
give us a little bit about what that means, because that's something that I think most people listening aren't familiar with.
Kory Martin Juul (55:31.408)
Right, right. This spawned from the shamanism. And when you go into a space, any space, not outer space, but if you're in a three dimensional, like right now I'm in a kitchen, every space has got its own set of rules. You walk into a dojo, a dojo has got its set of rules. And when you enter a space, you can then change that space. Adding music to a dojo will completely change the space.
Your presence and who you are stepping in and your energy levels will change the space. So there's this constant connection with everything around you and how you enter a place and how you react to whatever is being presented to you can dictate the way things are gonna go. A lot of times, early stages in martial arts, you feel like you're in some sort of, I'm not gonna say victim mode, but that you are dependent on what's being thrown at you. And if you are in a physical confrontation,
Yes, you do need to fight back. I'm not going to say there's some woo woo way around a fight or to not fight, but there are so many things you can do prior to a physical confrontation that can dispel any sort of tension. And so as a mental exercise, for me, it's, it's, mostly mental in that when I feel something come up in myself that has some sort of feeling of tension at all, I,
able to disperse it and by me dispersing it, will also whoever's around me will also come or I'll crack a joke or there will be ways to keep the harmony of everything smooth so that you no longer ever get into the possibility of there being a conflict. And when that happens, you know, then you're always safe. And if you also follow a path of truth and you're always telling the truth,
Truth has its own level of protection that just you can be walking down a very dangerous street and somehow you will be okay. I'm not advocating to just go do that just to see that it works, but I'm just telling you life will work its way around you in a way and you can be in a mouse room and you'll be all right. And so that's what I'm speaking about when I'm saying mental things. It's equally as important to train and cleanse your mind as it is.
Kory Martin Juul (57:57.434)
your body. So after you're done training your body, you know how to take care of yourself in a fight. Doesn't mean that you're the best fighter of all time, but that you are ready for the next level. And then it becomes mental for me. Yeah. Yeah. So I do my basics, right? But I'm not going to, you know, go do a three hour, you know, every single technique I know just to stay in shape, you know, like it's more about enjoying life and
Sharing with others, yeah.
Jeremy (58:28.622)
I get it. And, it sounds like you're philosophically coming more out of a Chinese tradition. And, you know, and we've talked about this on the show. What is the word kung fu mean? It doesn't mean doing this set of techniques. It's not specifically a style. is mastery. When when I had, I believe it was Jonathan Blustein on the show who actually just wrote another book. just sent me a book. Shout out to Jonathan. Thank you.
I think we started our, it was like 20 minutes of our conversation was talking about him gardening. And that was Kung Fu as he sees it, right? You get really good at something and there's a lot of carry over in how you approach it. you become really good as a martial artist, you can become good at anything. I truly believe that.
Kory Martin Juul (59:03.932)
Yeah.
Kory Martin Juul (59:23.255)
Absolutely. You learn the fundamental, I don't know you call it a technique or a self belief or what it is that allows you to continue to persevere through any adversity and then your own drive and your love for whatever, you just become hyper focused. And I think focus is a big part of it. Today's generation is on TikTok, on Facebook and they're getting
I get hooked into it too, those reels, you just watch them and you watch them and you watch them. And your focus is, but if you can learn to focus and then you can stretch that focus and then stretch that focus and you can hold it for a year, imagine what you can accomplish in a year if you just are focused on one thing, you know? And that's where it's at. Yeah.
Jeremy (59:52.142)
Sure.
Jeremy (01:00:11.758)
for for sure. We're gonna start to wind down here, but before we do, let's make sure we hit all the stuff, websites, links, social media, email, any of that stuff that you want the audience to have.
Kory Martin Juul (01:00:28.804)
Yeah, please check out white tiger legend.com. You can see the in progress trailer, how much we've done so far. There's also a link to the book. I also have another website. You just mentioned the gardening, immortality, I O R T A L I T E. It's a French pronunciation of immortality and it's based off of Chinese herbs that have been incorporated into a product that extends your life.
I've learned some of this stuff in the mountains of Guizhou, China. And we're also competing in a hundred million dollar XPRIZE HealthSpan competition. So it's not Elon Musk, but it's close. And yeah, the products in that are making people younger. So you're feeling better, you're looking better, you're anti-aging and that's a whole other rabbit hole. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeremy (01:01:17.518)
Well, I assume you're taking it. And if I did my math correctly, you're my age or older. I'm 45.
Kory Martin Juul (01:01:31.05)
Yes, but biologically I'm somewhere around 34 from DNA methylene testing.
Jeremy (01:01:35.732)
Yeah, yeah. And folks watching are seeing that. When you said you saw the original Karate Kid in theaters, I said, okay, this guy's older and he looks for sure. So, I mean, there's a testimonial to you right there. I'm gonna have to check this stuff out.
Kory Martin Juul (01:01:56.208)
Right on, right on. Yeah, it's amazing and it's Chinese medicine. So the path, people sometimes say, you why should I go into a school and start martial arts? You don't know how it's gonna come out. Here I am working on longevity and filmmaking and it was all from a bunch of punches and kicks. And yeah, so just get in there and start, you know, like you don't know how, what you're capable of or how much you can give to this world if you just give yourself a chance.
Jeremy (01:02:24.946)
And I'm sorry, I've got to step on your toes because that would have been the perfect way to close out. But I just need to mention. So I'm going to throw it back to you in a minute. Maybe you want to think about how to extend that or maybe take it in a whole different direction as we wrap. But I do want to thank the audience for hanging with us. This has been a lot of fun. Check out those websites. Check out that book. I'm already on pins and needles for that movie without having even watched the trailer yet.
Kory Martin Juul (01:02:30.209)
Alright, that's okay.
Jeremy (01:02:53.848)
You better believe it's the first thing I'm doing when we get off this recording and shout out to Kotaro for their support of this episode and so much of what we do use the WK10 at kotaro.com K-A-T-A-A-R-O. But yeah, Corey, this has been phenomenal. So how are we going to close up? How do we put a bow on this thing?
Kory Martin Juul (01:03:13.904)
I have no idea. Yeah. How did we even get here? I mean, no.
Jeremy (01:03:17.742)
It's a question I think most of us could ask at any given time in our lives and go, wow, this was quite the ride. And this was quite the ride. We went everywhere. And that's one of my favorite things about the show. Here we are just about 10 years in, just about 1,000 episodes. And I still love doing this because we always start in a fairly predictable way. Who are you? Where are you?
What have you trained? Why did you start training? And over the course of 45 to 60 minutes, we always end up someplace dramatically different from every other episode, and I love that.
Kory Martin Juul (01:03:58.468)
Yes. Yep. Thank you so much for sharing all this with everyone.
Jeremy (01:04:01.422)
Thank you.