Episode 863 - A Chat with Restita DeJesus and Kathy Long

In this episode, Jeremy sits down and chats with legendary American kickboxer Kathy Long and Sifu Restita DeJesus.

A Chat with Restita DeJesus and Kathy Long - Episode 863

After Free Training Day Pacific Northwest, Jeremy sat down and chatted with two of the presenters from the event. It was a fun experience for both of them, and nice to reconnect to past guest Kathy Long. If you are looking to hear more about Sifu Restita DeJesus, look for an episode from her coming soon!

Show Transcript

Jeremy (00:00.822)

Hey, what's up everybody? Welcome, it's another episode of Whistlekick, a martial arts radio, and I am incredibly lucky because returning back on the show, we called you coach last time, I think. Which is fine. Coach Cathy Long and Sifu Restira De Jesus, who we just recorded an interview episode, but now I get to talk to both of you, and I'm pretty lucky. We've done some formats before, where we've had multiple.

people in the same place at the same time. But usually we're in a car. I put a GoPro on the dash. And we just released one not long ago with Tashi Mark Warner, who a lot of you saw. And he's in the back seat. And so he's kind of leaning forward. You know, so. That's hilarious. Because we were going to free training day in Philadelphia. And I was like, let's record. It's kind of like, what is that? Taxi karaoke or whatever that is. Yeah. Car karaoke.

I'm sure we could come up with better ways to do the audio in that, but the whole idea is we make it simple. So it's GoPro on a dash mount that I built. It looks terrible, but nobody ever sees it. It's awesome. It works though. It does. It's all that matters. It does. I want to start here. You two have a show. And you know, that was, it was, it was kind of a trip for me because when we were recording, you were looking at the camera.

My guests don't usually look at the camera. In fact, even if we're doing something over the internet, they're usually, a lot of them are looking away from the camera, right? Because the camera is intimidating. How long have you guys been doing that? You started it, and then you joined it later, right? I joined it later. Yeah, my friend Bob Deal and I started Dynamic Dojo Talk TV in 2012, and this was kind of...

We started it because I was a co-host on Grandmaster Daryl Sargent's Modern Combat Masters, a blog top radio podcast. I was the co-host. So pretty much had to learn how to use blog top radio. In 2012, I think everybody was learning how to use that stuff. That was all new ground. And I was like really hip on it because like when I was in high school, I majored in radio and TV.

Jeremy (02:23.382)

loved doing radio stuff and stuff like that. So I was like, oh, okay, I'll do this. This is easy. And it's online. I don't have to deal with this. No mixing board. I did some TV stuff in college and it was like, we have to do what? Yeah, exactly. And it's kind of like, and this, you guys not won't see it, but this counter kind of reminds me of that angle. Right? But, but.

Are you looking for the peak lights in the back? Yeah, yeah. Most of you have no idea what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. I've seen it. Ding, ding. Yeah. I've been in rooms where they're doing it. Yeah. Those red lights going off. No, you're talking too loudly. You talk too loud. Chill out. Remove the mic. Yeah. But Bob goes, hey, we should have our own show. And then 24 hours later, we had Dynamic Dojo Talk TV on Vlog Talk Radio. So.

Because back then there were so few.

Jeremy (03:26.094)

I can't even remember the name now. What was the one? The platform? No, I'm trying to think. There was a podcast that had a bunch of episodes before we even came along. Anyway.

Hi-yah. The Hi-yah podcast. Hi-yah, yeah. Hi-yah. Which was a great show. And so when did you join? And did you have a choice? Well, I did have a choice in that. You're going to join now! I think when Bob left the show, Rusty looks at me and she goes, I need somebody. I went, I'm in. Let's go. Had you ever done anything like that? No. I've never done anything like that.

You know I've done films and TV shows and stuff like that, so in that respect, yes, but not sit and talk to another martial artist or interviewer. I've been interviewed quite a few times, so I guess I had a familiaration. I was familiar with it, so in that respect, I'd never done anything like that, but I had a sense of where they go and what they do with it and how they do it, so in that respect it was all good.

One of the things that I noticed yesterday when you were teaching and you were assisting.

There's a strong relationship here. And I won't talk about that, but if we're gonna talk about that, we kind of have to talk about how you two met. Oh, yeah. So what's the story there? Well, I was attending an event called the USA Martial Arts Hall of Fame. And there's the USA Martial Arts Hall of Fame was all over the United States. And it just so happens to be happened at that time in 2015 to be here in the Puyallup area.

Jeremy (05:17.086)

like I forget when it was October or something they always they always brought it here in October so anyway I was nominated by one of my friends who was also a martial artist I was nominated and I'm like oh wow okay so I you know came right after work you know got into you know my formal evening gown and stuff like that and met my friend Justin out in the parking lot and then we come we come in when the doors opened and he's like

Oh my God, is that Cathy Long? And I forgot what you were doing. A reaction many of us have had when seeing her. I forgot what you were doing. I think you were like doing something with trophies or something like that. I was setting them up and putting them together and getting everything ready. You were putting trophies together? Yeah. Yeah, why not? I was helping Jim Thomas and Lori Hallmark, That's awesome. you know, put the place together because, you know, they flew me there and I thought, you know, as long as I'm here, I might as well help them.

So in that respect.

Jeremy (06:20.246)

When I was sitting up, I saw her come in. At the time when they were, everybody was figuring out where they're gonna sit and looked for a little marker on the table to find out, okay, that's my table, I'm gonna sit there, on and on. So I saw her come in and I knew right then and there, literally, that I had known her before in another lifetime. And I just knew it.

I couldn't have articulated that, but at the time I just, I just, I recognized it. I recognized that feeling because I've done that with other people and I just thought, well, I'm going to sit with that and, and let it, let it develop as it will. Did you have a similar feeling or were you as so many of us been, oh, as Cathy Long? Well, it was more like Justin was like, oh my God, is that Cathy Long?

Yeah, yeah, you know, because he was fanboying. You know, a lot of people were fanboying and fangirling. And I'm like, yeah, it's going to be long. And we sat down and introduced ourselves to everyone else at the table. But there were several other people that were at the table, like Mike Shintaku was there. Craig Jorgensen was there. They were at the event yesterday. And so we sat with them and had a great time. And then, but it wasn't that I was like, oh.

I met her in a previous lifetime. It was like, I didn't feel the starstruckness. Is that a verb? I didn't find. I didn't. It is now. We're gonna make up words. I didn't. This needs to be a lot of fun. I didn't feel like the star, the fanboy thing. I didn't feel the fangirl thing. It was more like, it felt like when she sat at our table, it felt like, huh, you know, like we've been friends already, right? But it wasn't like.

Oh, you know that kind of thing. I don't like everyone's like, you know, get an autograph, you know, and on Facebook, like get a rotograph. That's what people say on Facebook. And then, um, but later on that night before I left, I said, would you be on our show? Would you be interested in being on our show? And yeah, well, there's a little more to it than that. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, what.

Jeremy (08:48.359)

Well, do you want to tell the story? Well, there was another point in time when she was having her birthday and she wanted to celebrate it at Vanny Helmets in California. That was the California, USA, much loved Hall of Fame. So I went and while she was having her birthday celebration, tons of people were there because we're all there involved in the show and the award ceremony and whatever else. I was standing behind her.

talking to somebody like I'm talking to you, but I'm standing behind her. And while I was standing behind her, I kept getting all these visions of being in.

And I want to say China, but it could be wrong. But this was hundreds of years ago. We were in a, we lived a very simple life. We had a small ranch and we were living together as male, female, I was the male, she was the female. And I was seeing all of this was flashing before my mind, like there was a transparent screen in front of me and I'm watching this going on. And

I'm thinking, okay, now I understand where I knew her from and how I knew her. In that scenario that I'm watching, she got killed and I didn't get a chance to complete the relationship or complete the time we were supposed to spend together because it was cut short. I had, at that point, vowed that I would come back at some point and see her again.

And you know, it's funny to add to that story because like, you know, a lot of people go, oh, hey, yeah, you know, like past lives, whatever, right. But, you know, I was, this is when she was still living in California before she moved up here. And I went to near my workplace, there's a 7-Eleven. And it's in the middle of downtown Seattle. And yeah, you know, sometimes there are homeless people that ask for a dollar or whatever. But like one time I, I went over there and there was a

Jeremy (10:57.382)

ladies sitting out there, you know, obviously homeless, but I've never seen her before. And I went into 7-Eleven and got my stuff and came right out and she goes, hey, how's your husband? I'm like, I don't have a husband. Yes, you do. And then she stood up and she got like right in my face. Yes, you do. It's been a long time since I've seen you. Where's your husband? And I'm like,

Jeremy (11:26.17)

going on? The tall Chinese guy and I'm like, uh, you know? Yeah, it was you. I'm like, my head, I'm thinking I've never met you before, but she was like all in my face and yeah. What I'm getting from you is that there was something about that conversation that you didn't just instantly dismiss it as.

She's crazy. This person's crazy. Yeah. It was something that felt... Yeah. There was something weird that felt like, I don't know. And it was weird. And then after like blah, then all of a sudden, excuse me, do you have a dollar? Yeah, I have a dollar. And all of a sudden, yeah, it was, pardon my French, freaky! I was gonna say it. It was freaky.

And, and, and then I, when I got back to work, I immediately texted Kat and said, okay, this, this lady, you know, asked about my husband. Because you would have told her about what you had seen at some point. It sounds like prior. I can't remember. I can't remember if you had said it before, but I'm like, this guy, this lady comes up and he's like, where's your husband, the Chinese guy or whatever. Big, big Chinese guy. And.

you know, what'd you do? You know, blah, you look different and blah, blah. And she introduced, and I'm like, and you are, she's like, and she said, amma. And I was like, amma, that means like, but like in the back of my mind, I'm like, why does that sound familiar? But I've never met this woman before. And then she's like, got a dollar?

It's like somebody changed the tuning on the radio. Exactly. So I don't, to this day, I still don't know what happened. I don't know if something, and for those of you that believe in that kind of stuff or not, I was there. I don't know. I don't know what happened. But yeah, and I told Kat about it, and she's like, yeah. And I think that's when you told me the thing about the China stuff. And we don't live in China.

Jeremy (13:45.27)

You know, my beliefs on this stuff are vague, right? Because I grew up as kind of a science guy. And I've seen some things. You know, I've seen real. Yeah, science is real. I've seen some weird things that I can't explain. So I leave space. That's how I talk about it. I leave space. I'm open to things. But even if folks out there don't believe, this is something that's important to you. And I think that's more significant than whether or not they believe, because that's a strong component of your friendship, of your bond.

Absolutely, absolutely. You know, in that respect.

Jeremy (14:24.386)

I died when I was 10. I drowned in a pool and was dead. We talked about this when we were little. When visions like that come to me and they're very strong in my mind, I don't ignore it. Because it's there for a reason. Right. Yeah. And on that note, kind of similarly, I was born three months premature in 1966, which at that time... That's a big deal.

Yeah, which at that time was a big deal because, but luckily, the University of Washington here in Seattle, they opened up a brand new preemie ward with all the modern bells and whistles and stuff like that. I had to be airlifted there from a hospital from a different, different part of King County because they didn't have any way.

to take care of me. And ambulance can't handle that. And ambulance couldn't handle that fast enough because I literally was born dead. So it was kind of like, what do we do? And then they managed to get me to breathe. And they're like, no, we got an airlifter. And so literally, dead alive, dead alive, dead alive, dead alive, hit the University of Washington hospital. And there I stayed for about three or four months until I was of age. So the

I get very vague recollections of what it feels like to not be around, which is weird. Right? And for lack of a better term, and you know, a lot of babies will forget being a baby. I forgot the event stuff, but I think my body remembers. There's a lot of trauma there. Yeah.

My body remembers the stuff. Emotions get watched. Yeah, exactly. So, and it used to be, until I figured out what it was, it used to be that around my birthday, I would literally get flighty and scatterbrained and like stressed out for no reason. And I'm like, you know, for a couple decades, I should be happy, it's my birthday or whatever, but every time I would get scatterbrained, I'd get stressed out about it.

Jeremy (16:43.498)

and or just stressed out in general. And, um, and then I was talking with, um, some other people, I was talking to a couple of psychologists later on down the road and a couple of hypnotherapists. As a matter of fact, at that time, and they probably said your body that they said, your body is probably remembering what happened. And, um, because there was always going to be, there was always a three to four month period where I go through this. And it was.

during that time, it was like three or four months that I was in the hospital. But I never put two and two together. My parents never made a big deal about it. And the only time I'd ask what had happened was like when I was around nine. And they said, oh yeah, you were born, you know. I mean, I knew I was born three months premature, but they didn't go into detail until I was nine. And when I was about 15 or 16, that's when I found out I was literally.

dead, alive, dead, alive on the, you know, on the flight to the hospital and stuff like that. So, and then later on, this was shortly before my own mom died. We had a discussion about, you know, how the body remembers, you know, trauma like you were talking about, and what, you know, that can invoke and stuff like that. And, yeah, with that said,

With that being said, I'm a firm believer that, you know, if you feel something weird or something that, you know, there's got to be something behind it that, you know, probably can explain that. There's a book written titled The Body Keeps Score. Oh, right. Okay. And I don't remember the author's name, but it's a very good read if you're interested. Body Keeps Score. Yep. The Body Keeps Score. I have a good friend who's a...

a Rolfer, structural integrator. And I've learned a lot from him about the way the body stores emotion in the fascia. And if you don't believe in this, talk to anyone who's done massage for a long time as a structural integrator for a long time, and they will tell you stories about people just losing it on the table for seemingly no reason. Not at all. That's right, I've done that too. I was a massage therapist since 94. So you've seen people just

Jeremy (19:08.098)

Completely snap in a sense and they can't explain why they just all of a sudden they were just flooded with so much emotion yep, and The good thing is they have a they have a way of releasing and not hanging on to that trauma So in that respect the massage can be a very good thing. It can be very therapeutic Some people you know, I've had a couple of people who would just freak out

and literally get off the table. Like what's going on? It's too much. Yeah, too much. Way too much. Yeah. But that does happen, it can happen. It's really important that if you have gone through traumatic events to find a way to release that and not hang on to it, because that'll just tear you apart. I agree. And we've probably all seen people in training who come in and they've got some stuff.

Yeah. Right. You know it. And you can see it. You can see it. And you know, there are obvious scenarios that, you know, we don't even have to put words to because they're terrible. But then there are some others that are, that happen. I mean, we've all got our stuff. And I think we're probably on the same page that is one of the beauties of martial arts training is that it can help us work through our stuff. Yeah. You know, you can only train for so long before you have to confront your demons, whatever they are. Yeah. Yes. I couldn't agree more.

And we were both psych majors in college. Not that either one of us continued with that because she decided to open a martial arts school and I decided to do the same thing. It's kind of funny. We both gave up our desired career in order to open a martial arts school. Open your destined career. Yep, indeed. I actually thought about being a Seattle police officer for a while. Also, just before I opened up my first dojo.

And I was telling some students this the other day. I'm like, yeah, I got through all the tests. And I did the physical test. And then I was going to ask to come by for the psyche bell and then fill out all the paperwork, go to the academy. And then I received a word that I was able to get the space that I wanted to open my first dojo. So it was kind of like,

Jeremy (21:35.034)

Was your desire to be a police officer similar to, I've known a lot of more shortists who become bouncers because they want a way to test their skills that they don't have to feel guilty about? In a way it was more like I wanted to be able to use my skills in a way to help the community. And at that time, you know, in the late 80s, early 90s, mid 90s, the police were still respected.

Crazy, I know, right? People will watch this in a few years and hopefully things will have corrected a little bit. Yeah, yeah, the police were still respected and the police were still regarded, you know, guardians of the community, right? I mean, yeah, still back then there could have been, you know, the few bad eggs, you know? I mean, that's been around for a while. You got that everywhere. You know, I got that everywhere. However, that's what I want to do. I want to be able to use my skills.

to help the community and in a way to be able to get that real world greedy, you know, you don't know what's going to happen and how to make these decisions type stuff. It didn't even occur to me back then that there was the risk that I could die. It didn't occur to me, but then- How old were you then? I was 23. Yeah, no 23 year old thinks they can die. Unless maybe they've already-

Yeah, unless they've already died. Yeah. You know, yeah. But you know, that was, that was during the whole Piss and Vinegar period. Right. And, but I still wanted to help the community. My parents weren't all that keen on that because of like, you're going to die. We don't want to, you know, we don't want to get that knock on the door type thing. Right. But at that time, you know, like I said, I did get a notification from the realtor that I had been going through and they said, yep, you can.

You're all clear. You can have this place. And I'm like, OK, dojo. I'll do the dojo. Yeah, dojo. Yeah. It's funny, you were saying how some martial artists become bouncers to test them, test their skills. And I became a bouncer, but I did not want to. I did not want to at all. What drew you to bouncer? Well, the manager at the restaurant that I was working in, he had a small dance floor and, you know,

Jeremy (23:59.242)

super cool, super gay guy and would love to throw these events, right? And he didn't have, he knew he had the wrong bouncers in there because they were looking to pick fights. So he wanted somebody who, you know, he knew I did martial arts and he wanted somebody who had a level head and was, you know, not somebody who was gonna just, oh there's that guy's being a dick, so now I get to beat him up, right?

Jeremy (24:28.618)

Anyway, long story short, he offered me cash money to balance Thursday, Friday and Saturday night and I said, no, I'm a liability to you. I said, I'm 120 pounds and if I end up hurting somebody, I'm going to have to hurt them. I can't just pick him up and force him out the door. I can't do that. Can't just be imposing. Right. Yeah. And he says,

So he kept offering more money. Every time I turned him down. Sounds like he wanted to see that. Oh Lord. No, he didn't want to see it, but he just knew I have a level head. And he just knew that I was kind and that would transfer over into people who are drunk and they're either total assholes when they're drunk or they're super nice. It's interesting.

Jeremy (25:21.194)

I kept turning him down and saying, no, I'm just a liability to you, I can't do it. At some point he just offered me so much money, and I'm like, god damn it, all right, I'll take it. But the problem with that was that I had to deal with the current lead bouncer because I was taking over his position while he was still working there. Yeah, not good. It was, I'm going to guess a large man who liked to pick fights based on him. No, it wasn't large, but he...

loved fighting. He just loved, you know, the whole idea of, I'm gonna grab this guy, hit him, and get him out of the room. That was him. And he was kind of a dick. Do you know the comedian Ron White? No. Oh, bad. Bad cat. I don't. No, it's okay. His comedy is around stories. He describes a bouncer once as someone who...

probably goes home, watches Roadhouse, and enjoys themselves, we'll say. So that's kind of what it is. I think you nailed that one. Yeah, that's funny. Enjoyed himself. Like, what prompted me, I mean, I still had to work there and as the lead bouncer because he got demoted. And he was stuck around for a little while. For a little while until I watched him. Cause...

Imagine this, you walk in the front door of the restaurant, and that for the bar, you walk into the restaurant, and to the right is where the bar is, so you go through a doorway, and you go into the bar. But in order to come into the bar, you have to come in through a separate door, show your ID, pay money, and then come in. So the front door to the restaurant was considered the back door, right?

and the back door had a push bar. So somebody had to patrol that area, which is of course right where the bathrooms were. So you had to patrol what we called the back door and you had to keep an eye on the bathrooms, make sure nothing was going on there and keep an eye on the restaurant to make sure that nobody was going in there and doing whatever. So at some point, the guy who was the lead bouncer and who got usurped, and he was- That's a good word. Usurped.

Jeremy (27:44.942)

Truly that's exactly the way it worked. He was patrolling the back door area and I was in the main floor and I watched him There was a guy who had been nursing a drink for a good while and he was a Vietnam vet because I had struck up conversations with this guy because he would sit by himself and just nurse one beer and People watch and that's all he did one beer all night

And then when he was done, he'd get up and go home, right? So that guy never got drunk. That vet never got drunk. Never a problem. Always a good guy. And I see him get up and I see that guy, the lead bouncer, who was the lead bouncer, follow him because he had a drink and he had a glass in his hand. And so he's following him out. I don't know if I told you this in the last. It's okay, not everyone's. Not everyone, yeah. So long story short.

He's following the vet, I'm following him. And he gets, the vet comes up and he gets to his car and there's four clickers, right? So this is how long ago it was. Puts the key in the car and then the bouncer comes up, tries to hit him from behind. And before that can happen. We're stealing a glass? Just because. He's just angry. Just angry and wants, you know.

I don't know what, I don't think there was ever a conversation between the two at the time, but I think it was just something he wanted to do because he was really angry at the whole situation. Why didn't he just leave? I don't know. But long story short, stuck my foot in the hollow of his knee, got him in a chokehold, got my finger in his eye, slammed him on the ground and I'm kicking him because he came behind the guy and was going to hit him. Yeah. It was like, Oh no, oh no, no. Not on my watch. You don't do that.

and I'm stomping on the gut. You know what I'm saying? All kinds of supertatives. I'm not going to go into it. But at that point, right then and there, I walk right back in. I made sure the vet was OK. He looked at me and goes, I'm fine. He gets in his car and he leaves. I left him laying there. I walked back into the barn. I said to the manager, whose name is Dexter, that I won't forget, I said, Dexter, you don't fire him right now? I quit. He was fired. I mean, obviously. Yeah.

Jeremy (30:13.494)

that sort of behavior. I'm guessing most of the problems went away at that point with this departure. Yes. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Some people shouldn't even be bouncers then. No, they shouldn't. I'm going to guess most people that are bouncers shouldn't be bouncers. Yeah. Just in my experience. I don't spend a ton of time at bars and clubs, but the good ones, you don't even know they're there. Yeah, exactly. Because they anticipate, they see the problems. I've worked.

I haven't been bouncer, but I've worked event security. I've worked security for big shows and everything. And you see the people that are about to be the problem, and you let them know, hey, what's going on? Yeah. Oh, well, OK, well, let's solve the problem before it escalates. Exactly. Oh, you're having a bad experience. I see security and bouncing as more of a customer service job than anything else, if it's done well. Yeah. Rather than like,

I'm the bouncer and I'm going to argue with you until you swing and then I have an excuse to slam your head into the ground. And you know, a majority of a lot of the videos that I see on YouTube are like that, where some of the bouncers will literally get on. Like, get out of here, get out of here, yeah, well you're mother too, and this and that, you know. And it's like, you know, and it's like, gah, you know. The hard part sometimes was...

When you're working the main floor, not the front or the back, but the main floor, and the bartender goes, okay, this one's got to go because he's being belligerent or he's had too many. And the bartender was really trying to be very careful about not giving them too many drinks, even though they, you know, give me another, give me another, give me another. And they'd look at him like, and they'd find me. This one, right? He's got to go. And the sad part is, a lot of times...

they would leave quietly. You know, I'd offer them to buy them a drink if they came back the next day. I'd say, let me call you a cab. You have somebody you can call. Is there any way we can get you home? And I would just be super nice. And a lot of the time they were fine. That was always the one on the occasion who would just, you know, haul off and try to hit me or be super belligerent and get up and just be a total a-hole, which sucked. Cause then I had to be one.

Jeremy (32:38.966)

Yeah. Because I can't just pick them up and walk them out the door. I can't do that.

Mmm. Yeah.

Jeremy (32:50.166)

Would you do that work again? Forget about the money part, no. Never. If you could rewind, if we had the time machine, you wouldn't have done it. Again? Well, I learned a lot. Sure. I learned a lot about...

Jeremy (33:05.71)

delayed pain reaction where one guy who the bartender had asked me to get off the stool, he was huge, I mean huge, and he gets up and he grabs me in a bear hug from the front. So I'm trapped in like this, right? My arms are in, my body, I'm squeezing his nuts as hard as I can and nothing. And in my mind I'm going, this should be working.

I was told this would work. Why isn't this working? Because he was super drunk. And he's super huge. Yeah, I mean it did work. Eventually. It took a while. Like I said, delayed pain reaction. Interesting. But that sort of thing...

I don't like bars. I mean, I'll sit in a bar, of course, and enjoy myself and have fun. But, you know, I find myself if I'm ever in a bar with friends, always looking around. Yeah. Things are copacetic and you're looking for the one. The one. Where's the one? Yeah. Where's the risk? Yes. Yeah. So it's hard to relax and enjoy. Yeah. I'm the same way. I'm guessing you're the same. It doesn't have to be a bar either. No, no. It can be a restaurant.

It's a restaurant, it's a trampoline park. Like yesterday, everyone's like, where are the exits? Probably the safest place anyone could have been in the area yesterday. Cause we're all doing that, right? It's like, okay, who's gonna be a problem? Yeah. Well, in that one room that we were all in there together is like, well, we're all together. Yeah. No one's gonna be the a-hole here. Yeah. Well, not intentionally. I mean, the problems were the, there were a couple of the lower ranks who.

You know, might not be executing techniques, but on that there was no problem. Right, exactly. Or the people outside, you know, the people playing video games, next door, whatever, but you know. Yeah, it was the CrossFit competition. They were the threat. Shady, man, shady. They were shady with their campfire and everything over there. Yeah, we thought you were having fun. We wanted to be like, here's their campfire, yes. They were having a good time. Yeah.

Jeremy (35:28.783)

So let's, actually I want to go back because you said you had invited Kat on the show. Oh yeah. And then we took a great detour. Yeah we did. Let's go back there because I think we need that. Yeah so I invited her on the show on that day at the USA Marshalls Hall of Fame. She said sure. Now this is in October. No of course the holiday season is coming up. She's going to out me. I'm going to out you. I'm going to.

The holiday season's coming up and I tried getting a hold of her like in November before Christmas, you know, to kind of say, hey, would you be willing to be on our first show for January? And I got no response. I went, oh, well, you know, this is because, you know, I didn't know her. So I'm figuring, you know, celebrity martial artist, busy, probably teaching, you know, 24-7, that kind of thing. Doesn't check.

Facebook all that often because that's what I wrote written through this Facebook and I think it was closer to January it was closer to January 30th or something like that where she's like she emails yes I'd love to be on your show, but you were in like Cancun or something like that teaching in Cancun and I know it isn't awful. Yeah, it was horrible Teaching it's just been really busy and sure I'll be on your so show and then

And then, yeah, she was on the show with me and Bob. And I think the first show of the year, I was gonna say 19, 20, 15, no, 2016, because we met in, yeah, it was 2016. First show of 2016. And she became like a guest co-host once a month for the majority of that year. And then I think not...

long after, not long after that, then you just joined me and Bob, that kind of thing. So there was that. And then, you know, life happens and, you know, Bob had to leave. So I was like, eh, could you, could you not be a guest co-host now and actually be a co-host? So, so there we go. And just, just kept running with it. Just kept running with it. And we, we were.

Jeremy (37:52.658)

religiously on every Sunday. But there came a point where Bob and I, you know, we would be so busy during the week, you know, he had a full-time job and, you know, I had a full-time job and teaching at night. So it was really hard to like get a hold of potential guests and setting up the show and, you know, finding... I understand. Yeah, you know, and finding the material because Bob and I had, well...

had a segment called weird news. So we just bring up weird news. Health news. You know. So we literally had to scour the internet for the latest stuff and stuff like that. So it was kind of like, oh my gosh. For a tiny bit there was the cat's corner. Yeah there was cat's corner. Cat. Any questions about fighting or training or things like that. It was just it was a lot that you had to do. Yeah. There was a... I don't think people understand how much work goes into this.

And here's the proof. Go look at how many podcasts start, and they make it to episode like eight. Yeah. And then they're done. Because they think it's, I'm gonna hang out with my friends and this seems to be the premise of most BJJ podcasts. Oh, uh-huh. I'm gonna get two of my friends together, we're gonna have a beer. Yeah, and then talk to other BJJ people. And we're just gonna shoot the breeze about martial arts, and then we're gonna become internet famous.

And that's not what happens. There's work, and if you wanna stand out, you've gotta do more work. Like the fact that we're recording episodes here today, live, in person, and this was a big part of what justifies the expense of me flying to the West Coast and us doing this Retrain Day event, is that we're capturing content. Yeah, you're right, a lot of people forget. And the weird thing is, is like, you know.

as it was back in the like the 1950s and 60s sitcoms and stuff, we go live, right? You know, so whatever happens, happens live, you know? And we've had times where we've had prank callers. Oh my gosh. And those were the, those were the weird times. We then we had like a couple of stalkers like on the show. Yeah. And not.

Jeremy (40:16.05)

Yeah, not, you know, and then they call, and then we'd have people like literally drunk and talking mess, you know, just the blog talk radio platform was great. But you know, since it was so public at that time live, people would just look at it like, Hey, let's spend an afternoon like, you know, calling these random podcasts and like making their life hell. Right.

There were times where Bob and I would have to deal with that. And what was hard between me and Bob is that he was in Burbank and I'm in Seattle. So we would have to have an alternate way of communicating with each other while we're on live. So there'd be texting. And we both had to set up, you know, back then, setting up texting on the internet. That was rare at the time. So we'd text on the internet and pretend like we're looking at the camera when we're texting.

I have no idea what that's like. Back channel communication in the middle of an episode. I've never heard on that. Oh man, you know, and sometimes the guests themselves would be communicating with us because they couldn't get on or something. And you know, it's just tough to have that you know, the what do we do now, Plan Z. You know? So, but now you know, with the technology it's a little easier. A little easier, but

research that I'm sure you have to do. And travel, oh my gosh, travel. I know, all the way from the East Coast. Yeah, so there you go. Through Philadelphia. The life of podcasters. It's very glamorous. It is a wonderful way to earn negative dollars. Yeah, exactly. You live in Philadelphia? No, no, but I had to fly through. Oh, I see. Because living in Vermont, there are no, you know where the direct flights are. Yes, of course. It's to Atlanta, Philly, Detroit.

Wow, why is that? And New York, New Jersey, that's it. It's called Miami. Because nobody, we have 630,000 people in the whole state. Oh, okay. So to get enough of us together to get on a plane, it takes some coordination. And it's like, okay, where does everybody wanna go? Nobody wants to go to... Let alone are we gonna get enough people to justify a plane big enough to make it to say LA? Right? So it's like, all right, well...

Jeremy (42:39.85)

All of you can go to Philly and then you can get your own plane. There you go. There's a funnel jumper and then... Yeah, there you go. It reminds me of flying to Maine. I had to take a similar there, you know, it's just like ding ding. Three different stops before I could get to Maine. Yeah. I remember growing up in Maine and Portland was so... The Portland airport was so small that you just kind of go and you can...

You know, we're watching the planes from like here take off. You know, there's like a fence. Yeah. You know, I don't mean like there's big security like there is now. I mean, it's like a fence and we'd sit at the end of the runway and eat a sandwich. My mother and I. Oh my God. Remember being able to walk to the gate, walking my grandmother to the gate? Yes. Yeah. Now they won't like. Long gone. Yeah, those days were gone. That must have been a blast. It was. I mean, also, you know, it was back when, not Portland, but some restaurants had good food.

You know, so you can go and... How could you not have good food in Maine? Well, good seafood, good crab. Again, the airport, you know. The airport, yeah. The airport, but you know, you get out... The best food is always in the crummiest looking place. The best lobster rolls are in the crummiest looking places. You know it, yeah. The dive, the hole in the wall. The hole in the wall with the lobster rolls. That's right. You've traveled and taught pretty much everywhere. We talked on your episode that you've...

done at least a little bit of traveling, I suspect far more than we've talked about. Yeah, a little bit, not as much as she's been traveling and stuff like that. She's been to countries I haven't been and vice versa. There's something that is often romanticized in the martial arts world about traveling to a spot to train, even if it's, you know, I train kung fu, I want to go to the Shaolin Temple. But it's also, I train kung fu and I want to go...

anywhere and train with different people you know and to a certain degree that's what happened with this event you know not everybody traveled far but they went to a place that is not where they typically train and train with people they don't typically train with. What's up with that? Why do we do that? Why is that such a powerful draw even after we've done it a few times? Because you get to experience something new and different no matter how many times no matter how many years you've been involved in martial arts.

Jeremy (45:06.574)

There's always a different spinoff or a different take on somebody's idea of what they teach. And you can learn from absolutely anyone, literally anyone, even a white belt. First day white belts are great at teaching you how your instruction could have been better. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Here's the beautiful thing about teaching a brand new white belt is that you get to learn how to...

teach them in a way that they absorb that in the best way possible. As they always say, you learn more by teaching. And a lot of people go, what do you mean you learn more by teaching? Well you learn how people learn. You know, how do I teach you in a way that you're going to get it? And you have to come up with typically a lot of different ways to show somebody or people in general. If you go to a group of people, not everybody learns the same way.

it's to me that's just a beautiful way of getting to know people and how to teach people is get a get a group of people you don't know and teach them yeah and the and the whole like getting out of your own little box in the universe i think is a big draw for a lot of us like in the previous interview i said that i started out and with tokukan karate

which is a relatively new and small, small art here in the United States. And, you know, in the mid to late 70s, it was like, oh my gosh, I'd love to see what Kung Fu is about. I'd love to see what kickboxing is about. There was only one kickboxing school in the whole, you know, in the whole city, that kind of thing. And it's like, and we wanted to see what was outside our universe.

that kind of thing because we knew that there was a bigger community of martial artists out there. We just didn't know, well you know being you know a kid, we just didn't know where it was and that was a big draw to be able to get out and do things and back then we were able to visit other schools without them going, what you're gonna steal our stuff? You know we were able to visit schools and they would welcome us with open arms and say, hey here you go and then they would

Jeremy (47:29.494)

just drop off at, drop in at our dojo, we'd be like, hey, whoa, thanks for visiting, right? And yeah, then that changed. And then we talked a little bit about that arc actually in the session that I led yesterday that kind of the first crop of martial artists in the West, it was very welcoming. And then it fell off through the eighties and became really kind of nasty. And then through the...

early to mid 2000s, it's starting to come back where people are, hey, let's share, let's cross train, let's make each other better. And I was really lucky in that I started and my instructors had this culture of welcoming. If somebody, because growing up in Maine, so there were a lot of people that would visit, they'd come up for the summer for the week and they'd want to train. So they inevitably find this karate school, one of, you know, there couldn't have been a dozen karate schools in Maine.

when I started, you know, one of this tiny town of less than 2000 people, I was really blessed. And they'd come in and instructors would say, Okay, what can you teach us? Right? It was very, it was almost backwards from what you might expect. And so I grew up thinking that was the norm. And it did not take long for me to go, Oh, yeah. Oh, I remember after we've established our school, and maybe four or five years later, we reached out to all the martial arts schools.

in Bakersfield where we lived at the time. And we got them all together in a restaurant and we're having dinner and we proposed the idea of having a Marshall University. And we said, hey, why don't we all get together in one building that, there's one particular building that's available for rent and we could all pitch in and everybody could be teaching their art in the school. Yeah, wouldn't that be cool? This is my dream. Yeah. And do you know what they said to us?

You're not stealing my students, fuck you. Pardon my language. But you know, hell no, blah, blah. And there was just so insecure and so, yeah, so close-minded. Yeah, they didn't even stop to think that, hey, a collective space where I could have my own space to teach my stuff, you know, and it won't cost me as much as if I was paying for a space myself. They didn't even stop to think about that. The first thing that they went to was, you're not stealing my students.

Jeremy (49:50.23)

That's the first thing they came to. Well, here's the real world counter example. Where do you see every Burger King restaurant? Next to a McDonald's. Yeah, exactly. If that wasn't the way it worked, wouldn't you think that the folks at Burger King who have the resources would say, OK, McDonald's is here. Yeah. And there's another one here. I'm going to put it in the middle. Right. Like they're going to stay as far away. But that's not what they do because it creates a collective awareness. Right. Yeah.

Can you imagine how easy the marketing would be? Oh, I know. In that building? There are 42 different martial arts classes you can take in this building. Come up and we have agreements. You can try them all and pick the one that you like best. Yeah. Oh, and then you pitch in on the marketing together and every- That's what we proposed. It'd be amazing. It was, well, the thought was amazing. The thought was amazing. Yeah. Yeah, but in traveling all over the world in that respect.

I haven't been to every country and tried their martial art, but going to different countries and I've learned not so much that, I mean there's a similarity in martial arts, it doesn't matter what country it's from, there's only so many ways you can kick somebody or punch somebody or gouge their eyes or whatever the case may be, right? But I learned, what I did learn really early on was that human beings are all

doesn't matter what country they're from, they all have fear, they all have desires, they all have, they wanna be happy, they wanna live in a nice place, they wanna work in a place that, where they feel supported and they can make the money to support their families. Every country is like that, except for the ones who are extreme third world. But even those people are very close knit, and very caring with each other, because they don't have so much.

And as I learned, human nature is exactly what it is, no matter what country you're in. Everybody has the same fears and the same insecurities and the same desires and the same loves and the same everything in that respect. It might have a slight twist to it, but it's essentially the same. One of the things I found myself saying, and I'm curious your thoughts on this, I think traditional martial arts training is kind of the prescription for a lot of those...

Jeremy (52:14.434)

those fears, those concerns, the real world, modern world, concerns that we all have. And so when you're teaching your classes, how do you serve your students beyond the physical needs? Oh, go ahead. No, you were gonna. I was just gonna say that like, what I've noticed at least with this particular generation now is when they come in, they've...

at least the people that come to my school, they already have an idea of what they're looking for. Again, that helps a lot because, you know, as you know, if people join the school and they're like, eh, I don't know, and you know, give them that, you know, I don't know what I'm looking for, right? And a lot of times, sometimes people don't even expect that question, what are you looking for? They just want to do martial arts. A lot of times you don't ask them, what are you looking for? And I'm a firm believer in that, you know, that should be a first question and get them really thinking about

why they're getting into it. It could be, well, I got mugged last week, or I was raped three years ago, or I'm afraid for my kids, or whatever, right? It could be all of that, but I'm a firm believer in that. That question should be in their mind because it affects how they train, right? And what-

Right and I know that Kat's training style is or teaching style is very similar to mine in that You know we want to make sure that each person goes home With something new based on how they learn But the trick is how do you teach a whole class? you know in a semi-general way and And get that personalized teaching out to each person

It is the biggest challenge. It is. It's a big challenge. And a lot of it can center around how you speak, how you move, how much of the information that you give at any given time. There's so much to consider. But in my belief, that offering of a personalized, almost like a private lesson within a group, in a way, is something that we both strive for.

Jeremy (54:38.314)

So that way each student goes home feeling confident that they have something to put in their notebook and chew on until the next lesson. And both of us have different types of students. I have students that tend to text me with like technical questions and I'll make myself available for that. And in Kat's case, people will text her for more of the emotional questions and stuff. So it's, and sometimes it...

switches. So it's kind of interesting because it tells us how are we teaching that way, you know what I mean, based on the questions that we get from students. So anyway. It's something I've stressed, especially in kickboxing, not so much in kung fu sensu, but in kickboxing because you get to hit things as hard as you possibly can and want. So in that respect, it's a great release.

you know, I'll give a gentle reminder. It's like, you know, you're hitting that heavy bag and you can picture whoever you want on that bag, right? Pound the crap out of it and get it out of your system. So it's not sitting there festering and nagging at you and getting you even more worked up, right? So that is, to me, it was a great release because when I was being severely abused by my boyfriend coach, Kung Fu instructor, whatever,

my release was the heavy bag, the focus mitts, and my sparring partners. The sparring partners, I'm sorry. Sorry sparring partners. Sorry, no, and I say that because all my sparring partners are men and at first, the first few years of learning kickboxing, they beat the crap out of me. And I learned, learned an awful lot from them, but I was also, you know, I learned how to hit hard, I learned how to hit fast, I learned superior footwork.

And then it wasn't so much beating on them as a way of release. It was more of, OK, I appreciate what you're teaching me while you're beating the crap out of me. But I learned a ton from them, just an absolute ton. But it was a great emotional release as well, especially hitting the heavy bags when I was in the school by myself, pounding the crap out of the bag. Yeah.

Jeremy (57:04.27)

It's really hard to be scared or angry when you are trying to breathe. Yeah. And that's, that's one of my strategies. If I'm, if I'm having a really, I'll, I'll just get down on the floor and I'll do burpees until I'm not scared or angry anymore. And it doesn't take that long. Yeah. You know, just kind of hit that reset and so heavy bag or, you know, Well, running for me was.

was the best meditation I could have ever done. You know, I just, I developed a rhythm with the breathing. I'd count the breathing with my steps. And once I got into that rhythm, gone. I mean, I was able to just release all that stress and get rid of it all because, you know, once my body got into that routine, I didn't have to worry about thinking, okay, am I breathing right? Am I stepping right? Did this hurt, that hurt? Then I could clear my mind. Yeah.

Mabu training, horse dance training. It's kind of like the Kaji Kembo people's running. They'll sit there and they'll be like, you know, knowing that they- Self-imposed? Self-imposed, well, if I say, okay, horse dance training, drop, you know, and I don't give them a time, I just say, I'll tell you when you're getting it up, right? And it's that combination of, oh my God, is she gonna like-

Is he gonna be on crack and leave us here for 20 minutes? Or, you know, is it gonna be just two minutes at our lowest? They don't know. So in a way, it's kind of fun because they try to like challenge themselves, oh, I'm gonna go as low as I can. Psychologically, that's a place that it only happens in martial arts. Yeah. That stimulus with an unknown time domain. Yeah. And it builds mental resilience. It does. Well, then you have the one who will go, see, when are we getting up? Yeah, oh yeah, of course.

Is it time? Are we getting up soon? Yeah. Have you seen that meme that goes around? It goes around martial arts circles on social media from time to time. And it's an older gentleman. And actually, you noticed that I interviewed Gerald Akumarva recently. And the guy in the image kind of looks like Gerald. And the top says, complaining about horse stance? And the bottom says, sounds like you need more horse stance. Yeah, exactly. More horse stance. Yeah, exactly.

Jeremy (59:27.126)

Absolutely. Right? You know, and it's kind of... And there was one meme that I put out there. It was like, it's that boxer dog that looks like, like that. And I wrote, what do you mean? Another five minute horse dance, that kind of thing. And I put that up on our Facebook page and they'll go, well, if they don't, you know, some of them will get really low and then some of them will fall out and then trip back up. And some of them will just try to like...

Try to stay in one spot and not move. And it usually I'll only do it for like five, seven minutes or something like that. Not like, not like a test for 20 minutes. It's an hour for my blue belt. Yeah. You know, an hour, an hour is, was a Kajikambo norm and it's kind of like, oh my gosh, you know, um, and they, the, and they know that they know that somewhere down the road, they're going to have to do an hour, they know somewhere they're going to have to do 300 kicks per leg. They know some, you know,

So they're like, so is this the training or is she pissed off at us? What did we do wrong? You know, did I forget? Did somebody forget their belt? And all of us are paying for this, right? Are we supposed to be mad at her or are we supposed to be mad at somebody else? Yeah, I know. Right. Help me direct my anger. Did I do something wrong? I know. Did I do something wrong? Are we all paying for this? What's going on? You know, so you got all this going up and they're

They're trying, they're trying. But I think for the most part, some of them find that to be their running in a way. They're like, can I get past this pain? Will I give up? I know of at least five of the adult students that are at that mindset where, am I gonna give up today? And then they'll try to prove themselves wrong kind of thing, so yeah.

Interesting. This has been fun. I get the feeling we could probably do this all day. All day. But we can't do this all day. So how about this? How do people find your show? Because if they've enjoyed this, they are probably going to enjoy your show. And I hope all of you out there will check out the show. On Cathy Long's profile or my profile on Facebook, Restita De Jesus, and also we have a show page, Dynamic Dojo.

Jeremy (01:01:54.222)

Talk radio it's actually talk radio and I haven't changed it to talk TV, but it's dynamic dojo talk radio make sure that you Go to the page not the group Yeah, we're trying to get rid of the group part, but I changed the name to like something retired. Yeah, exactly a few of the things that we yeah Not the official yeah, so dynamic dojo talk radio and if you can't find the

the page itself, Dynamic Dojo Talk Radio. You can go to our profiles and direct message us if you're interested in finding out how to find the show or if you know someone or would like to be an interview guest. Just send us a message. Awesome. Anything else we want to share? No, I really want to thank you. Yeah, thank you for having us on. Thank you so much. Of course, this was a lot of fun. Yes, it was. I want to do it again. Definitely. Please.

Yes, thank you. Bye.