Episode 864 - Sensei Nathan Chlumsky
Today's episode is a chat with Sensei Nathan Chlumsky, a martial artist and author from Oklahoma.Sensei Nathan Chlumsky - Episode 864
Welcome to another exciting episode of Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, the show where we dive deep into the world of martial arts, its incredible practitioners, and their fascinating stories. Today, we have a truly exceptional guest joining us: Sensei Nathan Chlumsky.
We explore Sensei Chlumsky's personal journey through the world of martial arts, discovering the pivotal moments and inspirations that set him on this path. From his humble beginnings to his current status as a martial arts teacher and author, we'll get an intimate look into the life of this martial arts polymath.
But our conversation won't stop there. Sensei Chlumsky is not only a dedicated martial artist but also a prolific author, known for his numerous contributions to the martial arts literature. In this episode, we will have the privilege of discussing his varied body of work, which covers a wide range of martial arts and non martial arts topics.
So, whether you're a seasoned martial artist, an aspiring practitioner, or simply someone with a deep appreciation for the art of combat, this episode promises to be a rich tapestry of insights and experiences. Without further ado, let's welcome Sensei Nathan Chlumsky to Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio!
Show Notes
You can reach Sensei Chlumsky at:
https://www.facebook.com/nathan.chlumsky/
https://www.facebook.com/BartlesvilleOkinawanKarate/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathan-chlumsky-357747214/
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Show Transcript
Jeremy (00:01.229)
Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome Whistlekick martial arts radio today joined by Sensei Nathan Chlumsky Welcome the show will chat in just a moment But for the audience, if you want to go deeper on this or any other episode make sure you hit whistlekick Martial Arts radio Calm I've got a bunch of links from since I hear that we're gonna drop in there I know we're gonna talk about some things that he does that you will want to check out after so Don't be afraid to miss that if you want to check out the things that we do and support our efforts Head on over to whistlekick.com
But right now, it's about you, Sensei. Thanks for being here.
Nathan Chlumsky (00:35.266)
Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.
Jeremy (00:37.641)
Of course, of course, really do appreciate you coming on. And well, I am honored. I am honored. It's such a weird word, isn't it? You know, if you've been listening or watching the show for a while, you know what I've said often that just, you know, I'm just, I just ended up in this spot. It wasn't really by choice. It's just weird things happen. And that's, you know, I think if we look at how most people end up in martial arts.
Nathan Chlumsky (00:41.538)
a big fan.
Nathan Chlumsky (00:46.926)
The honor is all mine, trust me.
Jeremy (01:08.089)
It wasn't very rarely does someone wake up and they say, I've never heard of this thing called martial arts. I'm gonna go do martial arts, right? It's usually somebody either directly or indirectly push them into training or they watched movies or TV. It seems to be one of those two. So I'm curious, which one are you?
Nathan Chlumsky (01:28.606)
Well, kind of a mix of both. I grew up in Larned, Kansas, which is a very small town of about 4,700 people. What makes the town is a state mental hospital that's been there since the 30s. And so if you're from Larned, they let me out on good behavior.
Jeremy (01:33.255)
Okay.
Jeremy (01:47.837)
Probably a joke or two in there that I'm gonna leave alone, right?
Hahaha
Nathan Chlumsky (01:56.65)
Chances are if you're from that town, you probably worked there and I worked there my dad worked there at one time I'm all my grandparents. So That's that's kind of how it is but I was
Jeremy (02:00.072)
Mm-hmm.
Nathan Chlumsky (02:15.61)
I had a lot of friends as a young kid, but then once we got into school, those kids started, they were my friends outside of school, but they were bullying me in school. And all the way up until high school. Yeah, about first grade on up. And they,
Jeremy (02:30.303)
What age are we talking here?
Jeremy (02:35.229)
So even starting at like five, six years old in kindergarten.
Nathan Chlumsky (02:46.219)
They would push me around, call me names and everything. And I...
I, my parents always told me, don't fight. If you fight, we're going to beach and we're going to spank you, you know? And, and so I, I grew up not fighting back. And, and so they took advantage of it because it made them look big and bad. And, um, I always loved the martial arts. I'd say when I was around maybe four or five, I saw my first martial arts film on TV. Um,
And I don't remember what it was. I think it might've been like 10 tigers of, or something like that. It wasn't, I don't think it was a Bruce Lee movie. It might've been, but I just thought, wow, that's so cool. That's awesome.
Jeremy (03:44.817)
Was that something like one of your parents was watching?
Nathan Chlumsky (03:48.122)
Um, no, it was just on TV. I was, I was watching TV and it came on and I saw it and I was like, Oh wow, that's awesome. And, and I was fascinated about by the movements and everything else. And, um, I wanted to, to train and, but there wasn't really any schools around, um, where I was and, um,
Jeremy (03:50.685)
You're just looking through as a kid and...
Nathan Chlumsky (04:16.946)
As time went on, there was some schools, a small school around the area, Taekwondo school, and I begged my parents, but they were afraid to get me in because they didn't think I would stick with it. And they didn't want to spend the money just to have me quit because I had a cousin that he got into Taekwondo and he got close to his black belt and then he quit. And so I never got the chance to train.
And I just kept watching. This was in the early 80s, late 70s, early 80s. And I started watching more and more martial arts flicks, got watching Chuck Norris movies. And then Jean-Claude Van Damme came out and Seagal and the karate kid, of course, in 84.
all these movies and I just, I was fascinated with it. And, but I was continuing to be bullied, uh, even to the point where, um, even school officials lied to my parents, they would, they would pretend that they didn't know that the bullying was going on and, um, uh, what have you and, uh, that just went on all the way through high school and, um,
I don't know if you're familiar with, it was Book It. It was through, in Kansas we had, it was called Book It and it was put on through Pizza Hut. And you could purchase different books and then you would get points and you'd get pizzas.
Jeremy (06:05.201)
Yes.
Nathan Chlumsky (06:11.782)
And so when I was probably around the fifth, sixth grade, I purchased my very first learn how to do karate book.
Jeremy (06:21.213)
You have a karate book from back then. I remember that book. I remember seeing that book on, yeah. Who's the author on that?
Nathan Chlumsky (06:23.862)
back then and not very thick but um this was uh by Russell Kozuki
Nathan Chlumsky (06:38.89)
And, uh, two 25 is the price. So yeah, yeah. And, and I got it and, and reviewed it. And I remember one time this kid challenged me to a fight and, uh, he was on the same bus route as mine. I was like, oh great. And so I was studying this book for a couple of weeks, getting ready for the fight.
Jeremy (06:41.873)
Which back then was a lot of money.
Nathan Chlumsky (07:05.898)
And of course I knew nothing about how to punch properly or stance or nothing. And I wound up, uh, I got off the bus and we circled up to each other and I was like, I'm wanting to get the first punch in and then I'm going to take out running. I'm going to knock them down and I'm going to run and, and that's, and it went just as planned, but little did I know there was a guy that
crouched down behind me, you know, where people would crouched down behind you and the other person would push you over. And I squared off and I threw the punch and I knocked the guy down, but because I didn't know proper stance or anything else, I fell back and fell back over the guy. But I immediately jumped up and I took out running. And that was kind of the introduction.
Jeremy (07:37.863)
Thank you.
Jeremy (08:01.421)
It's not a bad strategy, right? I mean, even today, a lot of schools do what you got to do and then take off, right? Like that's ideal.
Nathan Chlumsky (08:08.802)
Yeah. And, and of course they chased me down and they caught me and they tried punching me, but I had so much adrenaline. They were hitting me in the stomach and it wasn't even phasing me. It was like whatever. But as I got older, eventually I finally started kind of sticking up to myself. Around the eighth grade, my parents finally realized what was going on and they said, hey, if it's self-defense, that's a different story.
And I still held back, but there was a couple of times that I would stay on my ground. And, and then finally around my junior year of high school, uh, the bullying started tapering off, people start realizing that I was going to stand up to myself. And plus I think everybody was starting to grow up a little bit and they wasn't so interested in bullying and, and now.
Those people are very good friends of mine now, today. And I've forgiven them for what they did in the past. And I mean, we were all young and now we're really good friends. And I'm proud of their accomplishments and what they've accomplished themselves. They got some good families and beautiful families, so I'm happy for them.
Jeremy (09:29.661)
Can we talk about that for a moment? You know, because not only is something that I think incredibly powerful, your ability and willingness to forgive people who made such an impact. I mean, you can see the emotion as you're talking about your childhood here. I've talked about this a little bit on the show. You've done a far better job of forgiving the people who.
Nathan Chlumsky (09:32.014)
Sure.
Jeremy (09:55.325)
treated you poorly as a child that I have, and I suspect I'm not alone in that. So would you mind talking a bit more about that and how you got to that point?
Nathan Chlumsky (10:04.139)
Um...
Well, like I said, I've had a lot that's happened to me. I mean, I was, I, a lot of the bullying was pretty serious. I mean, I was, I was, I would cry myself to sleep at night. And even in the fifth grade, there was an eighth grader and some high schoolers in a truck. And I was riding my bike and they ran me off the road and the eighth grader,
Jeremy (10:19.878)
Yeah.
Nathan Chlumsky (10:36.194)
got out and he had a high powered pellet gun that shot lead BBs and he shot me in the leg. And it was actually about an inch or so from my main artery and my leg. And
Jeremy (10:49.146)
Mm.
Nathan Chlumsky (10:57.71)
that caused it hurt, obviously. And the crazy thing is, it was three months before the police even interviewed me about it. And then eventually, as years went on, that eighth grader, I wound up working with him. And he remembered.
who I was and he apologized. He goes, Hey man, what I did to you back then, I'm sorry. And, and we became friends. We shook it out. And, and I think a lot of it is just because of my upbringing. Um, I was born Methodist and Christian. Um, I admit I'm not the best Christian. I'm not the greatest. I, I do stuff that's questionable, but I try to have good morals. My sister's actually a, a Methodist Reverend.
pastor and she inspires me a lot. She's my younger sister but I'm very much inspired by her and what she's gone through over the years and how she's kept her faith and so I tried to do the same and but at the same time I kind of owe it to my training my martial arts especially my
my primary, I've had multiple instructors, which I can go into in a little bit, but my primary instructor, Bill Ratzlaff, I've been with him off and on for 30 years now. And,
Nathan Chlumsky (12:41.258)
I, he, he really instilled in me how to be a professional Mark, not just a martial artist, but a professional martial artists, all the tenants, the martial arts teaches integrity, honor, respect, and, um, he, he pushed that into me and, um, I tried to instill that out and, and in my opinion, part of that is also for forgiveness and, um, and just moving on, you know, and, um,
They may not respect me, but I try to respect them. And yeah.
Jeremy (13:18.841)
All right. So you said you started formally in eighth grade. Is that what I heard?
Nathan Chlumsky (13:25.486)
Uh, no, um, I, I wanted to, but like I said, um, uh,
I wasn't able to get into martial arts until college.
Jeremy (13:40.549)
Wow, okay, so that's a long time to wait. You're talking about being four and being interested and wanting to do this and it taking until, I mean, that's 14, 15, 16 years of waiting. That's a long time. What did you end up doing? Go ahead, sorry.
Nathan Chlumsky (13:49.962)
Yeah.
Nathan Chlumsky (13:56.27)
Yeah, I started buying. I was doing everything I could to get into martial arts as I started working. Once I became a teenager, I bought myself a small TV, had a built-in VCR, and I started going and I was buying karate movies. I have about, you can't see it, but I have about
Jeremy (14:15.877)
Hmm?
Nathan Chlumsky (14:26.666)
well over 300 movies and a big bulk of them are martial arts movies and documentaries.
Jeremy (14:32.365)
Oh, that's cool. What were some of the early ones that you picked up that you watched, I'm sure, over and over and over again?
Nathan Chlumsky (14:38.826)
Um, well, like I said, I was a big fan of the Van Damme movies, Bloodsport, all those, No Retreat, No Surrender, Cynthia Rothrock. I was a big fan of hers. The Tiger Claw, Lauren Avedon, just all those people. And then of course, when the 90s came around, I really became a fan of Jeff Speakman.
I just loved his Kenpo and so just a bunch of movies, Adolf Lundgren movies, you name it, martial arts, I was into it.
Jeremy (15:24.477)
So college comes around, what was it about college? Was there a club on campus or did you go to a different area? How did it happen?
Nathan Chlumsky (15:33.514)
Um, yeah, I went to community college. That was just 30 miles from where I grew up. And, uh, I majored in art and graphic design at that time. And back then, um, it didn't matter what your major was. You had to take physical education. And because of that, most colleges had martial arts or some form of self-defense.
And Barton County Community College in Great Bend, Kansas, they had Muda Kwan Tong Sudoh, Taekwondo, and it was taught by Master Joe Felke. And it was through Kim's Academy of Taekwondo out of Wichita, Kansas. And so I immediately started training. I enrolled in that for my class. And
Uh, eventually got up to my yellow belt green stripe and that I took a couple semesters, um, but, um, I became friends with this one guy, Larry Churchill, who I'm still friends with today, and this is back in August of 1993 and he told me, he goes, Hey, I heard about this third degree black belt in Okinawan karate. And he teaches weapons.
And he was just as crazy about martial arts as me. And I'm like, okay, I got to check this guy out. And so I found out where he was located and I immediately went to his school. And, um, he was teaching Okinawan, Shonryu, Kinshin-Kan, which is through Fusei Kisei out of Okinawa. And, um, uh, I enrolled that day.
So I was doing about six hours of karate every week, three times a week, and then about three hours of tongsudo and for way over a year, about a year and a half. And I just loved it. And I loved also how
Nathan Chlumsky (17:55.57)
Sensei Radslav. He's now a seventh degree black belt, but he I loved how he also taught the history. And it really made me appreciate what I was learning more. We learned about the grandmasters going all the way back to the past.
Jeremy (18:18.749)
And this makes sense because so much of what happens in martial arts films is, you know, they're only a handful of plots in martial arts movies, right? Is it's there's always some competition or some vendetta, you know, somebody killed so and so. And so you end up with a lot of. Value in the history and the lineage and the who came and, you know, my master and all that. So you kind of you almost had that before you had the physical skills, that appreciation, I would imagine.
Nathan Chlumsky (18:47.046)
I did, I did. It was, it was, I just really loved it because I'm a big historian. I love the history of any type of martial art. It doesn't matter what type. I love the history. I love the stories. And Matsumura Saito is very prestigious because it's named after
Nathan Chlumsky (19:16.79)
the 17th, 18th and 19th Kings of Okinawa. So very prestigious history. And so it made me proud and instilled that pride into me. And I've been to schools where there's been fourth, fifth degree black belts and they didn't even know the name of the style. They just go, oh, we do Taekwondo or karate. But they didn't know the actual name of the style. And that takes a lot from me when you don't even know that. And...
Um, so, uh, I, I was training off and on got to my fifth Q green belt and, and Kenshin con, and then I had to move, um, with college and everything else. And since they Rats laugh moved and we've, we kind of broke away for a while. And then I did a song ham tie Kwon Do. Um, I, I enrolled in.
Hays, Kansas at Fort Hays State University, and they had the martial arts team. And so I, and that was songham taekwondo. So I did that got up to a yellow belt, did it for a year, and I competed, went to some tournaments, stuff like that. And then eventually, I did I had I had a great time in tournaments. I enjoyed it.
Jeremy (20:34.093)
Sound like you had a good time with the tournaments just the way you said that.
Nathan Chlumsky (20:43.474)
And then eventually moved to Manhattan, Kansas and started getting into security and law enforcement. Done a lot of that work. Working for a major security firm and at Kansas State University there in Manhattan, Kansas, they had Aikido. It was like Sadokan Aikido. And so I did that for a while. And
until I started really working and my work kind of overtook my training and I wasn't able to train as much. And then eventually wound up moving back to Larned and started working at the state mental hospital and since the Ratzlaff moved back and I got back with him and we learned, I learned then that we were no longer associated.
with Kenshin-Kan. He broke away mainly because Kenshin-Kan was a mixture of, it was created by Kisei, and it was a mixture of the Matsumura Saito and the Shorenji-Ryu that he was also a black belt in. And he kept saying that he was teaching Shoren-Ryu, Matsumura Saito, when actually he wasn't, he was teaching in his own style.
We started looking at old eight millimeter footage of Ho Han Sokin, who also trained Kisei, and realized that just how much the katas has changed. And he was renaming the katas like Anan Ku International, Kusanku International, what have you. And what they actually were was the Shotokan version. And his reasoning behind it was...
Jeremy (22:37.393)
Hmm.
Nathan Chlumsky (22:41.546)
Well, by having Arcada the same, it's easier to judge in tournaments because we look the same. Well, we didn't like that. That's what made us special. The Matsumura Saito is we were a diamond in the rough. We wasn't like everybody else. We were different. And so we sought out Steve, Grandmaster Steve Warren out of Texas. And he trained.
He was a black belt, got his black belt through on soaking back in the early seventies and, and Fusei Kisei. And he had his style showing room at Samira Wakidokai. And we started training with him and, um, he wound up then, uh, um, getting certified in Israeli Haganah under Mike Lee Canary and, um,
He was like the 20th person in the U S certified to teach Haganah. And he integrated the fighting. Aspects into the match. Marisito and it blended perfectly because a lot of the things that was going on in the Haganah, we also did a match Marisito and we did an Arcata and our bone Kai. And it blended well. It was.
It was a beautiful blend and it enhanced our fighting strategies. And we really liked that. And so we, we did that. And, um, until about, uh, about three or four years ago, we kind of broke away from Warren and, um, Sensei Ratzlaff got reacquainted with his original. He, Sensei Ratzlaff, um,
learned kinship and con when he was in the Marines and Hawaii back in the 80s. And he got associated with his original instructor, David Lockhart. And Sensei Lockhart got acquainted with Ronald Lindsay out of Bastrop, Texas. And Sensei Lindsay, they were going back and forth and Sensei Lindsay introduced Lockhart to
Nathan Chlumsky (25:02.018)
uh, grandmaster Saison Kinjo who's out of Okinawa. And now we're. Sure.
Jeremy (25:08.422)
I want to jump in for a moment because you're, for a couple of reasons. One, it's really clear that the lineage of the history is important. You mentioned history is important. You value that. And question, do you have like a cheat sheet of all this or do you have this memorized?
Nathan Chlumsky (25:25.706)
Pretty much memorized.
Jeremy (25:26.905)
Okay, that's really impressive. But what I'm really interested in too is, because while some of these names have meaning to me, admittedly, most of them don't, right?
But I'm interested in what it was like for you during these changes. Most of us, if we've trained somewhere for, seem to be 10 to 15 years, somewhere in there, something happens, right? A school splits, a high-ranked student goes off and takes a crew or the school that the instructor, that your instructor was under moves to somebody else. And there are a lot of different reasons. Some of them are positive, some of them are not so.
But because you went through this a few times, that the school you were under was no longer affiliated with. What was that like? How did you feel, not as a historian, not as someone who, if you can separate it, not as someone who would look and say, you know, technical accuracy here, but as a student, as someone who was participating in the culture of that school, when these breaks happened, what was that?
Nathan Chlumsky (26:43.794)
Um, well, I just went with the flow. I was like, Hey, you know, I, I was, I was always dedicated to sensei rats. Laugh. Um, um, I, even when I was a white belt, um, if he would have a demonstration or something, I would draw up posters to advertise. I was always trying to help promote the school. I am trying to be a loyal student.
and show my respect and my appreciation and that I was with him no matter what. But a lot of those changes too, it did affect my training. Like when I got my fifth Q green belt, when I left and then came back,
some of the caught because of the changes some of the cod is a changed um my bowl uh
bow, my first bow kata, for instance, I was flip flopped on what I was supposed to know. Because my bow kata that I knew was now the second bow kata. And the second bow kata was now the first. So I was reversed and backwards. And then some of the kata changed too, because
Jeremy (27:59.465)
Hmm.
Jeremy (28:13.437)
the whole pinion shirt on pinion knee down thing all over again.
Nathan Chlumsky (28:20.762)
Hey, this is this was changed by quise and, and this and that, and this is how it was originally done. So, so then I had to learn those changes, subtle changes. They wasn't too bad, but I still had to learn them and relearn. And so every now and then that would kind of hamper and everything else and, and put a stick in it. And, and with life and everything coming in to be.
It caused issues. Right now at the moment, I'm a fourth degree black belt, but in reality, I could be a sixth degree. I've been a fourth degree now for 10 years. Back in 2011, I got injured on the job. And as of this June, I've had nine shoulder surgeries. It was faulty equipment, opening a door, and I had multiple tears.
Jeremy (29:12.669)
What happened?
Nathan Chlumsky (29:18.914)
and a bicep tendon tear in my shoulder and had to have joint replacement. Wound up being allergic to the nickel and had to replace that with titanium. And the doctor couldn't figure it out. I actually Googled the symptoms and figured out I was allergic to the nickel. And even then he denied it. He said, no, you wear nickel, you don't break out. Well, wearing it and having your bloodstream, two different things. And so,
Jeremy (29:26.718)
Ugh, you know.
Nathan Chlumsky (29:47.574)
because of all that, I haven't been able to promote. So hopefully maybe next year, I'll be able to try to test for my fifth. But yeah, basically I just went with the flow. Like I said, I respect Sensei and I respect his decisions and I love what I was doing. So I said, hey, this is the way it is. So I just went with it.
Jeremy (30:16.797)
So what's training with a... I'm assuming you're doing something. What's training with a shoulder replacement? We have plenty of people on with knee and hip replacements. We don't get a lot of shoulder replacements.
Nathan Chlumsky (30:29.894)
Well, my range of motion is bad. I am kind of partially disabled. I mean, this is as high as I can get my arm up right now. And can't even do a proper head block. But I mean, I'd have my surgery and two days later, I was teaching class, just wearing the sling. And yeah, I teach. Yeah, I teach.
Jeremy (30:50.761)
Wait, you teach? Okay, you're just sliding that in there. All right, we keep going, but we gotta come back to that.
Nathan Chlumsky (30:58.29)
I'm definitely old school. Um, uh, yeah. Um, when I, I now live in Oklahoma, um, North of Tulsa, uh, North of Tulsa and Bartlesville and moved here 10 years ago. And, and, um, I got offered the chance to buy into a martial arts franchise. And, um, I didn't know that it was basically a belt factory McDojo and it had a bad reputation. It was going bankrupt.
and it drug me under. I don't have bad things to say about the franchise. The CEOs were amazing. It was just the former instructors. They do. But it was just the former instructors and the former instructors actually lied to the CEOs too. The CEOs didn't realize how bad it was. So.
Jeremy (31:31.165)
Does that, I don't want to put you in hot water.
Jeremy (31:38.153)
I'm
Jeremy (31:42.227)
Does that organization still exist? Okay.
Nathan Chlumsky (31:58.158)
Um, I won't name their names or where I was located, but, but I was, I was very fortunate, it was, it was funny. Cause, um, I, about two or three weeks after taking over the school, I was teaching and this gentleman walks in and he goes, um, I, I've been watching you. And he goes, I want to tell you that your students look like crap.
Jeremy (31:59.793)
No, no, quite all right. We try to keep things positive here as you want.
Nathan Chlumsky (32:27.282)
And, and I was like, everybody's like, I'm not saying that now. He goes, I know you're new. He goes, I know you've only been here a couple of weeks. And he goes, in the couple of weeks that you've been here, I've already seen a huge improvement and he stuck out his hand and he goes, he goes, it's nice to have a real martial artist here in town for a change.
And that was Sokay Gary Dill, Grandmaster Gary Dill of G Kundo. And, and, and I, being a historian, I knew who he was that he trained with. I was like, Oh my goodness. There's a guy that trained with Bruce Lee right here in Oklahoma. I'm like, and I've trained with him off and on a few times and a great guy and smoked a few Stogies with him. He's a big cigar smoker.
Jeremy (33:00.253)
He's been on the show.
Jeremy (33:14.878)
Nice guy.
Jeremy (33:20.969)
He is passionate about old cigars, isn't he?
Nathan Chlumsky (33:23.823)
And I really respect him a lot. And he lives just five miles from me. So, but I will, I will. And it meant a lot to me. And after a year, I broke away from that franchise. And I'm back to being old school. I teach out of my garage and just...
Jeremy (33:32.433)
Next time you see him, please give him my best.
Nathan Chlumsky (33:51.614)
A few students here and there and yeah.
Jeremy (33:56.213)
Nice. All right. Let's go back to the whole teaching thing, right? Because you've spoken so passionately about your love for the martial arts in so many different ways, right? The training, the history, the lineage, accuracy is something that's clearly important to you. When did teaching start and how did that start? And was that by design or accident? Like, where does that happen in your journey?
Nathan Chlumsky (34:23.83)
Well, again, I owe that to Sensei Ratslaf. Um, he...
with having students and stuff, he would try to focus on everybody. And so he instilled in all of his students teaching. Um, when I was like a blue, back then we had, it was a white belt. And then we had three blue belts, three green belts, three brown belts, and then our black. And then when we switched over to what keto Kai, we were white and yellow.
Um, purple and then three, uh, three green, three brown black. And, and then now we're back to the original white, blue, brown, uh, green, brown, black. But, um, like when I was on my second, third, second and third belts, um, we'd get a new white belt and he'd be like, Hey, could you teach them Fuka got itch the first Cata? And.
Jeremy (35:27.581)
Mm.
Nathan Chlumsky (35:31.006)
So I would take the student and try to teach them the first kata. And then he would come back to make, obviously come back to make sure that they were getting the pattern and everything. And so we started teaching relatively right away after we've got a couple ranks up, teaching lower belts, helping to teach. And then as time went on.
When I got my Brown Belt, I got into the Black Belt Club. And with the Black Belt Club, we were required to have perfect attendance. And if for some reason we missed a class, we would have to do a private lesson to make that up. We were doing demonstrations. We were doing different stuff. And because of that, we were required to be better than everyone else. And so we were helping teach then as well.
And then when I got my black belt, I took an extra, I was required to get my instructor certification. I had to take an extra, it was either 10 or 12 hours to get my instructor certification. And it was based on how to teach properly. And Sensei would do different scenarios. Like he would pretend to be out of control young kid, oh, I don't want to do this and then acting like a little kid. And we had to okay, this is how I would handle this as an instructor and stuff and, and how to do that. And, and our black belt test was, it was a nightmare. It still gives me nightmares to this day. Sensei incorporates 12 hours of hell, um, technically 14 hours for our black belt test and it's like eight, eight months or, eight weeks of Marine Corps basic training in 12 hours. And, um, I loved it. It made me appreciate my black belt more because I know I earned it. Um,
Jeremy (37:47.433)
How did you feel about that?
Nathan Chlumsky (37:56.326)
I got up at 4.30 in the morning and I ran, I don't know how many miles carrying a 60 pound duffel bag, doing pushups and sit-ups in the river and just different stuff psychologically, you know, to wear me down. And it just made me appreciate earning my black belt that much more. And mine was the first one that we recorded.
We got about an hour and 15 minutes worth of footage recording the promotion. And I showed that to Sensei Warren, Grandmaster Warren. And Grandmaster Warren goes, you're an idiot. He goes, if I would have had to do that for my black belt test, I would have told Soken and Kisei to kiss off. He goes, you're crazy what you did. But.
Jeremy (38:50.025)
Do you have your students do stuff like that?
Nathan Chlumsky (38:52.342)
Um, honestly, I have yet to promote anybody to black belt. Um, they, I would, um, I would, um,
Jeremy (39:01.898)
Would you have them do that?
Talk about that. This is a subject that's come up on the show a bit. And if you don't mind, you know, just say a little bit more.
Nathan Chlumsky (39:10.05)
Sure. Well, like I said, it really helps you to appreciate it. Now, the way Sensei Ratslav does it is, if you've already been in the military, you don't have to do that 12-hour because you've already done that. It's that psychological thing. And for younger kids, younger students, he doesn't go quite that long. It's a few hours, but it really tests to see what you're made of and how to push yourself beyond the limit and pass. Cause you know, if you're in a real fight, you might have to do that. You never know how far you're gonna have to push yourself. You might have to push yourself to do things that normally you wouldn't wanna do.
And wouldn't think of doing just to survive. So it helps you to appreciate that. And I definitely would. I've helped him when he's promoted some other students to Black Belt. I've gone and I've helped with their promotion to be the, because we've, the way he does it too is he has one black belt volunteer to be the emotional support going, hey, you got this and trying to push them on while the others is going, come on, maggot, get down, give me 50. And so you got the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde thing going back and forth here. And it really kind of gets you, but.
Like I said, I was exhausted, but, and even if we wouldn't have done it, that black belt would have meant still the world to me, but knowing what I went through, it just, oh yeah, I know I earned it.
Jeremy (41:22.665)
Right on. Cut.
So what I'm hearing, if we kind of go back to the beginning and we put together these points that are your timeline, your martial arts timeline, we've got a pretty good idea of who you are and clearly your passion for training. And I would say, I think I want to use even a different word, immersing yourself, right? You...
People use the word lifestyle in different ways. And I think a lot of times when people think about lifestyle, they think about something that is all encompassing. That's not quite how I see it. I think of it as something that connects to all the different parts of your life. And it sounds like that is a good way to describe you in your relationship to martial arts. You're a student, you're an instructor, you have connections to people, you've made it at least part of your profession.
And I know you've got some other things going on. So first, would you agree with that? Do you live a martial arts lifestyle as you see it?
Nathan Chlumsky (42:27.646)
Um, yes, um, I, I try, um, I, I tried to live a martial arts professional lifestyle. Um, I tried to lead a life that, um, is inspiring to others. Um, uh, I tried to instill in my students, um, try to be a role model to them. Um, admittedly, I don't train. Uh, I haven't been training like I should.
Um, but it's because of a lot of things that's going on in my life right now. Um, my shoulder issues, um, I don't sleep very much. I average about two to three hours of sleep a day and, uh, because of my shoulder, I wake up. Yeah.
Jeremy (43:10.681)
Well, good job for being coherent. I don't know that I would be coherent after two or three hours once, let alone consistently.
Nathan Chlumsky (43:19.47)
Yeah. And I'm also back in college. I got back into college in 2017 because of my shoulder issues and stuff. I've kind of lost my passion for law enforcement. I've been doing it for 26 years. And with my shoulder issues, I am kind of a security risk. And I wanted something that actually has financial security and pays good because my last security job, I was getting paid.
the very same amount that I got paid 20 years ago. And so I got back into college and decided to go into a field that I know nothing about and that's sports. Unless it's martial arts or WWE wrestling, I don't know much about sports, but it's a growing field. So I got into sports management and I figured if anything, maybe I could learn some new skills that would also...
transfer over to help me with my karate business and my school. And, um, now, and my family has no idea about this. They, they, I got my master's degree last year and they think I stopped, but I'm actually at the moment going for my PhD. And, um, I'm going to get a PhD in philosophy of education, and I hope to be a college professor and teach sports. So I'm very busy with all that.
So usually when I'm training, it's when I'm teaching.
Jeremy (44:54.589)
You're not alone. There are a lot of people for whom the majority of their training is when they're in the front of the room.
Nathan Chlumsky (44:59.206)
Yeah, and I'm trying.
Jeremy (45:01.049)
I can, I can say that too. I mean, that's most of my training is when other people are doing what I tell them.
Nathan Chlumsky (45:06.514)
Yeah. I'm, I'm trying to work in a little bit more training and trying to, because I really do want to promote and, and everything. So I'm trying to work in on that and everything. So, um, uh, but it's, uh, I still got a lot going on. So, and, uh, I do a lot of research being a writer and everything. I write books and publish books. So
That takes a lot of work too. So, so. Sure.
Jeremy (45:37.001)
Let's talk about that. Let's talk about the books. First off, what are you writing? How long have you been writing? And you know what? First question, why writing? Because writing a book is probably the least effective way to convert time into.
Jeremy (46:03.325)
Right? So why did you want to write books?
Nathan Chlumsky (46:05.431)
Yeah.
Nathan Chlumsky (46:08.68)
Um...
Nathan Chlumsky (46:13.91)
because it's a way to do the research, but also keep that knowledge out there to the people, to the people that want, yeah, love of history.
Jeremy (46:20.585)
So we're going back to your love of history.
Nathan Chlumsky (46:27.596)
I started back in 1999, well, even before that, I was compiling a lot of information on martial arts. And I got to thinking, man, I ought to put this into a book and create like an encyclopedia of martial arts. And so I started doing a Chinese martial arts encyclopedia.
And I had about 365 Chinese martial arts styles and about 110 weapons. And...
Jeremy (47:13.039)
make a style of the day, style of the year calendar out of that.
Nathan Chlumsky (47:16.083)
Yeah, and I had...
Nathan Chlumsky (47:21.146)
I had an old brother word processor. So I would have to type and figure out, okay, this is where I want my margin in. And then I, because being an artist, I would freehand pictures of stylists doing certain poses for that particular style, like a key, key pose. And as I continued doing that word started getting out and more martial artists of those styles.
Jeremy (47:35.977)
Mmm.
Jeremy (47:41.154)
Oh cool.
Nathan Chlumsky (47:50.294)
started sending me actual pictures. So I rewrote that book about three or four times from 1999 up to about 2015 when I first published it. And I self-published and it's an amazing book, has great pictures. And so I did that. And then a lot of my students
They were like, you ought to write a memoir. Because I told them what I've gone through. I've gone through a lot. I've had a lot going on in my life. I had an ex-girlfriend, and there's a documentary. It's called the Dolly Madison Murders. It happened in Great Bend, Kansas, and it was in a bakery.
and she was 24 at the time and there's a 79-year-old woman and they were brutally murdered and they were found by the delivery driver. And my ex-girlfriend.
Jeremy (49:01.732)
I'm sorry, I want to make sure I heard you correctly. You're saying you have an ex-girlfriend that was murdered? I'm so sorry.
Nathan Chlumsky (49:06.202)
Yeah, she, she was nearly decade, the only thing holding her head, uh, in place was her spinal cord. And I'm, I saw her just three days prior to the murder and we were no longer together, but we were friends. Um, I was married. I was married at the time and, uh, to this day, it's still a cold case. Um, there's a composite drawing and.
Jeremy (49:12.485)
Nathan.
Jeremy (49:25.817)
just still someone you knew and cared.
Nathan Chlumsky (49:35.138)
Like I said, it's on Tubi, there's a documentary of it and everything and even on YouTube. But I always wondered, you know, if she, because there were signs that she fought back. And I was like, and I've always wondered what would have happened if she had martial arts skills, would she have been murdered and stuff. And so I wrote a memoir and
And did that. And then I wrote a book on bullying and child abuse and domestic violence and the national statistics. And, and I talk about 15 famous people that were murdered. So it's kind of an inspirational book. Um, and then I, I did a book. It's about 500 pages. The first two years of the ultimate fighting championship. And it's written like an encyclopedia from A to Z and
I'm hoping to do a volume series all the way up to the present. So it's going to be multiple books. Um, I did a book on verbal deescalation. Uh, I'm a verbal judo instructor. And, um,
Jeremy (50:43.73)
Okay. I don't know what that is. I mean, I can infer what that is, but you're saying it like it's a codified thing that I'm unaware of.
Nathan Chlumsky (50:50.138)
Um, well, uh, this, uh, Mr. Thomas, um, back in the 1980s, he created, uh, he wrote verbal judo and it's a way, verbal deescalation techniques. And it's been taught to law enforcement, mental health, people all over the world. But the thing is, um, it, it's not really politically correct. They use terms like mentally retarded and stuff.
So I rewrote the book to make it politically correct. And then it also talks about how to talk to people in general. Well, you can't do that. For example, if you have, say, an adult that's 30 years old, but they have the mindset of, say, a 10-year-old, well, you don't talk to them like a 30-year-old. You have to talk to them like a 10-year-old. You have to talk to them where they can understand. And so
My, my verbal I keto book, um, is, um, you blend with the aggression and the redirected to a mutual outcome. And, and I include disability area awareness. And I talk about multiple disabilities and how to talk to those people. Depending on their disability. And, um, most recently, um, I've written an encyclopedia, um,
I now have, as of a couple of weeks ago, the first two volumes. And between the two books, it's over a thousand pages. And volume one, it's extreme martial arts, fighting styles from around the world. And it's anything martial arts related. Volume one, I just talk about the chronological history of the martial arts.
Jeremy (52:27.687)
Alrighty.
Nathan Chlumsky (52:46.266)
And I go back to 30,000 BCE when the first weapons were created all the way up to 2023. And the volume two is nothing but A. And it's 492 pages and yeah, and it's about 110 styles.
Jeremy (53:02.543)
You're gonna be happy this whole while my friend
Jeremy (53:08.027)
It's just A.
Nathan Chlumsky (53:12.758)
But then it has key figures of the martial arts. I talk about like George Alexander and techniques. Like even my current book right now, now I'm working on volume B and I'm on like page 90 and Aaron Bank, not Aaron Banks, which he will also be in the book, but Aaron Bank, who was the person that created the US Special Forces.
So anything that's martial arts related, key events that happened in time, stuff. And so people are now affectionately calling it the Encyclopedia Britannica of the martial arts, because this is going to be the most extensive martial arts encyclopedia ever created. I mean, it-
Jeremy (54:05.521)
sounds in and just page count alone. I think it's hard to argue that.
Nathan Chlumsky (54:09.874)
I'm expecting it's going to be at least 15 volumes, if not more, from A to Z. So it's definitely, it's going to take several years to get it all out. Um, since the early nine and mid-nineties. So, uh, compiling all this info I've, I've compiled over three. I've, I have a bookshelf and I have Manila folders and
Jeremy (54:20.861)
How long have you been working on it?
Jeremy (54:29.071)
Thank you.
Nathan Chlumsky (54:37.762)
from A to Z of different styles. And I have approximately 3000 styles.
Jeremy (54:45.636)
Um, uh, are, are.
There's a tongue-in-cheek question, like a sarcastic question, but there is, it's true at the same time. What are you doing to live a long time to make sure you get this done? I mean, obviously, you're more focused on it now. So I don't expect it's going to take a long time, but even if you're, you're spending a year, a book, which is not out of the question. A year per book is still going to take you a, you know, at least a decade more, probably two.
Nathan Chlumsky (55:00.016)
I don't.
Nathan Chlumsky (55:09.425)
Right.
Nathan Chlumsky (55:15.322)
Yeah, yeah. And I'm 48 years old now, so I'm getting out there a bit.
Jeremy (55:20.809)
I mean, you got time, but you don't have time to waste, I guess is what I'm hearing.
Nathan Chlumsky (55:24.922)
Right, right, right. And I just try to take time here and there. At the moment, it's kind of pathetic. I have a master's degree and yet I'm barely making a dollar over minimum wage. I'm a substitute teacher. And, but because I'm a substitute teacher, I get time where I can just sit down. So I take my laptop with me to classes and I sit and I'm typing.
during classes and so on. Anytime I get a little free time, I plug in, but I just, I've written, my books aren't just martial arts related. They're anything that inspires me. Like I said, I did that one over bowling. I was inspired to do it because I'm friends with this girl, her name's Jessica Hickman.
Jeremy (55:54.505)
There it goes.
Nathan Chlumsky (56:22.366)
And she lives in the UK in Cardiff and she's blind. She had a tumor and she had surgery and made her go blind, but she's hoist Gracie's goddaughter.
Jeremy (56:40.841)
Hmm
Nathan Chlumsky (56:41.826)
and she's his highest-ranking female. And she still trains in Brazilian Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and everything. And she had a friend that was, she knew a girl that was 13 and she committed what's called bully side. When you're bullied and you commit suicide. And she asked me if I could do something and that's what led me to create my book on bullying.
I have a book right now, I learned in sports that there are not many colleges that teach terrorism prevention in sports. And there's only like one or two colleges where you can major in sports management and take a course on terrorism prevention. So I wrote a 17-chapter book. It's almost 500 pages.
on terrorism prevention and sports. And I'm trying to get that published right now. And I'm hoping that some colleges will take it and maybe create a course and use that as an instructional manual. So I do anything that inspires me, I write. I just, love writing.
Jeremy (57:52.425)
I hope so.
Jeremy (57:56.125)
Yeah, and that's, you know, I can hear that, right? And to the audience, if you're not watching this, you can't see it, but you know, this is the segment. You've been very matter of fact through our conversation, you know, as a historian who appreciates facts and figures one would expect to be, but as you're talking about this, you're smiling, you're, it's clear there's a lot of emotion here for you, that you're passionate about this, and I love that. Where can people find these books? Or...
Are any of them available currently?
Nathan Chlumsky (58:27.526)
Yeah, they're all on Amazon. Pretty much everyone's self-published. Other than my mom. Um, I might have. I'm not sure.
Jeremy (58:32.197)
Okay, I think we have links. Did you send us links to your Amazon? Okay, I think we do. If not, let's make sure we get that in the show notes for folks.
Nathan Chlumsky (58:40.778)
Yeah, all you have to do is type in Nathan Klomski on Amazon and they'll all come up. But they're all pretty much at the moment through Amazon. My memoir is actually through Austin McCauley Publishing. But yeah, they're all up there. And there's seven books. Yeah, so something like that now. So.
So yeah, but that's just, I just love getting the info out there. I love sharing the knowledge. I...
Jeremy (59:17.424)
Mm.
Jeremy (59:25.233)
You are a teacher. You are a teacher in the true form of the word. You have information and you're finding ways to connect it and then give it back. And I think that that's great. Really happy.
Nathan Chlumsky (59:37.142)
Yeah. Well, I love, I love the stories that go with different martial arts styles, and different myths. It's just, it's just so fun to read about and learn and hear about things and, oh, this person can catch an arrow with his bare hands and stuff.
Jeremy (59:44.262)
Hmm.
Nathan Chlumsky (01:00:05.054)
and look into it and read it. It's just so much fun and learning about that. And I just, I wanna keep that knowledge out there and writing is a way. And you're right, I'm not making much off of it. I've sold only just a handful of books of each book. I mean, it is a special market and it does.
Jeremy (01:00:30.309)
Yeah, it takes time and it's difficult. And that's something that we've faced. We've put out a number of books and it's interesting how you'll put out a handful of anything, right? Musicians will say this about songs, authors say this about books. Artists say this about their paintings or their sculptures. It's never the ones that they think are going to be the best.
and you get just this one or two out of however many that one sells well. We've got a couple like that. It's like, you know, I had a meeting yesterday.
Jeremy (01:01:10.353)
That's the book that's selling now? Why is that bookselling? We don't know, it just is. We just say that.
Nathan Chlumsky (01:01:15.014)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Jeremy (01:01:21.112)
If people want to get a hold of you, social media, email, website, stuff like that you want to share?
Nathan Chlumsky (01:01:26.766)
Um, yeah, I'm not on too many sites. Um, I'm on LinkedIn, uh, Nathan Klomski. Um, I'm also on Facebook, uh, Nathan Klomski. Um, and that's pretty much it. I don't, I don't do too much social media. Um, I have a Twitter account, but I haven't been on it. Probably a year, a year and a half. It just, I just don't get into it. Um,
But Facebook's pretty much the biggest one that I'm on and I communicate through. They're welcome to look me up. And I love talking to people. I love sharing my story.
and meeting with people and yeah.
Jeremy (01:02:15.037)
Well, before I hand it to you to close us out, you know, I just want to remind the audience that whistlekickmartialartsradio.com all the links, and the things that we talked about today will be available there. There'll be a transcript, might not be a day of release, but it goes up shortly after. And hopefully, you'll support us. Go to whistlekick.com, and check out all the things that we're doing. So since Nathan, it's you, it's your responsibility, I guess, to close us out here. We've talked about a lot of different things. So
How do you want to leave this episode with the audience?
Nathan Chlumsky (01:02:46.81)
Um, I just want to say, uh, no matter what you're going through, um, people tell you you're not going to be able to do this. Don't believe them. Um, I was told by many, that you're never going to be a martial artist. You're never going to be a black belt. Uh, you're never going to accomplish this. And it gave me the drive to prove them wrong. And not only have I proven wrong, I've gone past, uh, not only did I get my black multiple black belts. I'm a high-ranking black belt. I'm a three-time Martial Arts Hall of fame inductee under Action Martial Arts Magazine. My picture was on the Thomas Ruder billboard in New York City in Times Square for 24 hours for being a professional of the year in martial arts instruction for who's who Strathmore worldwide and
People were probably going, who in the world was that? But use that for your fire to push yourself. And also appreciate where you come from, appreciate your lineage. Try to learn about it, and be proud of it. And try to learn from that and share what you know with others. And...
and keep that part alive as well as just the training and, and the evolving of the techniques. Um, uh, also keep that because like I said, I've, I've been to schools where people have taught martial arts and they didn't even know the name of the style. Um, they taught good stuff, but, um, you lose a lot when you don't even know what the style name is or the lineage. So keep that going.