Episode 862 - Mr. Mathiam Mbow
Today's episode is a chat with Mathiam Mbow, originally from Senegal, now running Silver Lining TKD in Wisconsin. Mr. Mathiam Mbow - Episode 862
Today Jeremy is joined my Mr. Mathiam Mbow. Mr. Mbow shares his journey as a martial artist, starting with his childhood in Senegal, West Africa, being inspired by Bruce Lee movies, coming to school in the United States, and eventually running Silver Lining Tae Kwon Do in Wisconsin. Listen along and enjoy the journey!
Show Notes
You can reach Mr. Mbow at:
https://www.facebook.com/silverliningtaekwondo
https://www.instagram.com/silver_lining_tkd
@silverliningtkd
✅Subscribe to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio on the following platforms:
🎧Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3mVnZmf
🎧Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3yHVdHQ
🎧Google: https://bit.ly/3kLSpo8
✅You can find whistlekick on all social media platforms using the handle @whistlekick or visit our website at https://www.whistlekick.com or https://www.whistlekickmartialartsradio.com
Show Transcript
Jeremy (00:01.293)
Hey, what's going on everybody out there? Welcome, this is Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio and today I'm joined by Macham Mo. Did I get that? Did I do okay? All right, yes, yes. And if you're new to our show, please check out whistlekickmartialartsradio.com for everything that we've got there. Every episode we've ever done is available there and you can also check out whistlekick.com to see all the things that we're doing in our mission to connect, educate and entertain the traditional martial artists.
Mathiam Mbow (00:11.07)
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Jeremy (00:31.217)
of the world. But enough about me and about that. We're here to talk about you. So Mr. Mo how are you? Thanks for being here. Appreciate your time. What's going on?
Mathiam Mbow (00:44.714)
Hey, I'm doing great and excited to be here. Thank you for having me. When you guys reached out, I was like, Whistlekick, I never heard of these guys. And then I got a message from Andrew. I'm like, man, and I started, I checked out a couple of episodes. I checked out the one you guys did with, what's her name? She's a movie star.
Jeremy (00:49.442)
Thanks for
Jeremy (01:08.793)
Cynthia Rothrock? Yeah.
Mathiam Mbow (01:10.198)
Synthia Rathrake, that one. I'm like, wow, these guys are legit. So, you know, I'm like, all right, let's see what this is about. And I'm glad to be here. Thank you.
Jeremy (01:18.817)
We've been blessed that so many people have said yes when we asked them to come on the show. And that's the difference because you asked me into the audience. There's always chat before we start recording and that was one of the questions you asked me, kind of like what's some of the history on this? And that's the big difference between here we are now in our ninth year, 800 and whatever episodes versus the beginning. The beginning I'd reach out to people and say, will you come on this show? And they would say,
Who are you? What's Whistlekick? What's a podcast? You know, all these questions. And now we get yes. And that makes life so much easier. And because of that, we're just, we're really blessed with who we get to connect with, including yourself.
Mathiam Mbow (01:55.318)
Yeah, that's really cool.
Mathiam Mbow (02:02.142)
Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that.
Jeremy (02:06.149)
So it is a martial arts show, and the one question that we really have, and I ask it in all sorts of different ways, it's about the beginning. There's a beginning to your path as a martial artist. So why don't you tell us about that? What's that first step on your martial arts journey look like?
Mathiam Mbow (02:23.186)
Man, you want the short or the long answer? So, long answer, okay. So it's a two part really what got me into martial arts. The very first reason, you know, growing up in the 70s and in a very poor country in West Africa, I am from Senegal, which is a French speaking country on the West side of Africa.
Jeremy (02:26.093)
I want the long- we got time. I want the long answer. Yeah.
Mathiam Mbow (02:52.426)
And by the way, if I do say something that you don't understand, just let me know and I will say it again, because with my accent, sometimes I put the accent on the wrong syllable and then it makes it difficult to hear. Okay. Very good. Very good. So, you know, for me, growing up in the in that country and where particularly the town I grew up in.
Jeremy (03:02.877)
So far you're doing great. I've understood everything you've said thus far. I think we'll be good, but I appreciate that.
Mathiam Mbow (03:19.582)
entertainment consisted mostly of soccer, you know, with like a little cross ball, you know, just grab a bunch of cloth, tie it in a knot, and then you have something to kick around. So that was my childhood, you know, and that was the entertainment. So it was interesting that at the time, most of the movie, so to speak, movie theaters were only shown Bruce Lee movies.
And it kind of like got my attention when I saw the first Bruce Lee movie ever and watching this guy move.
I'm like, man, I want to be like this guy. I want to be a, cause I was a skinny kid. Like I want to do what this guy does. This is impressive. So from there, every chance I got to sit and watch a Bruce Lee movie, I took that opportunity. I basically saw all of the Bruce Lee movies and probably can recite them all to you. So that was my first introduction to the martial arts cause I wanted to be like Bruce Lee. And as you can see.
I have a lot of Bruce Lee figures behind me on the shelf there. He's my inspiration to start martial arts. That was back in 1988, 1989, so to speak, while I was in school. And, but I was not really serious about it because I didn't have any formal training at the time, I couldn't afford.
to go to a martial arts school and take classes. And even if I could, there were very few martial arts schools in my area where I was. And when I say few, I'm talking to maybe like one. And I couldn't afford it. So, you know, it was mostly like me watching a Bruce Lee movie and then going in my backyard and trying to imitate what I learned.
Jeremy (05:11.925)
You're certainly not the first person to do that, to start your training in that way. Yeah, yeah, we've heard that from quite a few people.
Mathiam Mbow (05:14.902)
to do that? Okay. Yeah, I would imagine that. But anyway, so that's kind of like how it started for me.
But I wasn't a very serious practitioner because I was not part of a school, part of a system that would force me to go. So I would practice whenever I could. And then, you know, whenever my friends would come and say, hey, you know, we have a soccer game. I'm like, all right, let's go. So soccer was always kind of like the main activity for me as far as trying to find an activity to distract me from the stresses of life. And people may ask.
Well, you are a teenager. What really, what kind of stress do you have? Well, if you grew up the way I did, you, you would understand how life can be difficult at times and you would also, um, appreciate those moments where you can escape, um, the realities and do something that would take your mind off of that. Uh, so we'll just leave that one at that. That's a, that's a story for another time, but that was the life, um, that I had.
got a chance to play soccer, I did. So now fast forward a few years, I'm in 91, 92 when I graduated from high school. My mom was very proud because I am her first born and she was very proud that her first born is off to college.
she wanted me to have more than a couple of pairs of outfits to wear in college. So she took me shopping and, you know, I don't know, you know, if you know anything about Africa, but we don't have malls like we do here in America, you know, where you walk into the building, it's all air-conditioned and you go from one store to the next and it smells good. In Senegal, it's a completely different story. The mall is outside and these are like little huts, little tents.
Jeremy (07:10.028)
Mmm.
Mathiam Mbow (07:12.308)
that people would, it's kind of like a flea market, so to speak, you know, exactly. So you, you know, you walk around, you know, it's, there's a lot of traffic, it's loud, it's noise, it smells, it's, it's amazing, multiple, it's amazing, beautiful. So as luck would have it, as we are walking around the marketplace trying to find things to buy for me to prepare for college, my mom was wearing a golden necklace.
Jeremy (07:15.849)
Yeah. Okay.
Mathiam Mbow (07:42.302)
And all of a sudden we have this big commotion and there are these four big guys that like around us and started screaming for whatever reason. I had no idea what was going on, but they started cursing at us and screaming at us. And I'm, you know, being protective of my mother. I'm standing there going, if you guys wanna travel, you have another thing coming because you're not gonna touch my mom.
And luckily there was a lady, one of the street vendors, saw the whole situation and realized what was going on. So she grabbed my arm, pulled me aside and explained to me that they were not intending to hurt us, but they wanted to create a distraction. So one of them would have an easy access to my mom to pull the necklace off her neck.
I'm like, I see now. So I went around, I went back behind my mom, I took the necrosoft and I put it in my pocket and we exchanged a few mean words after that and they disappeared. Disaster averted. We finished our shopping.
we went home and my mom is telling everybody, the rest of the family, how brave I was for standing up for her, protecting her and all that stuff. And I'm sitting in my room shaking and thinking, I almost died today. Because if that got physical and aggressive like that, you know, I was, I wasn't going to make it, to be honest, because they were all bigger than me. And talk
Mathiam Mbow (09:16.702)
I didn't have any chances. But that was also a very defining moment in my martial arts career, because after that experience, I made a vow that I was going to do something. I was going to learn how to defend myself, that I was going to try to change my body and build my body, basically, to become a weapon, so to speak. Not to sound too cliché, but I wanted
learn how to take care of myself in those situations and how to defend my family, the people that I love. And that was it. So I started really thinking seriously about martial arts training. A friend of mine invited me to go to a Taekwondo tournament before college. So I went and I'm watching at the time we only knew the WTF system in Senegal, the World Taekwondo, the Olympic style.
So I'm watching these guys compete and I'm seeing, you know, kicks to the head, people getting knocked out left and right. And I looked at my body. I said, that's what I want to do. Cause I want to learn how to knock people out too. And the very next day.
I went to a taekwondo school in my area and I talked to the instructor and I started training with them and then a few weeks later I left for college and I'm going oh my god I just started this amazing thing and now I'm off to college and I'm gonna have to stop and I was devastated.
And then when I went to college, there was a karate program. So I started learning karate with the guys. There was also like Vovinam, Vietnam. I don't know if you are familiar with that martial art system. Vovinam, V-O-V-I-N-A-M. So check it out. It's called Vovinam, Vietnam. V-I-E-T. Yeah.
Jeremy (10:57.074)
No, say it again.
Jeremy (11:06.781)
Okay, yes. I don't know that I would have been able to say it, but the way... when spelling it, yeah, that's familiar.
Mathiam Mbow (11:16.302)
Right, exactly. So when another friend of mine in college was practicing that, so I did a couple of sessions with them. I didn't have the flexibility it required to fly up and cross my legs around somebody's neck and go down with them. And karate, you know, really didn't appeal to me, you know, nothing against karate, but it just didn't appeal to me as the art that I wanted to do.
um, try to a little bit of Kung Fu again, same as Vovinam Viet, but I didn't have the flexibility because I'm a little too tall for that, I suppose. And luckily there was a, uh, one of the, uh, people in college was also doing Taekwondo and he started a Taekwondo program.
He wasn't even a black belt at the time. He was just a red belt, but he saw the need that people, there was no taekwondo. There's judo, there's karate, and vovinam, viet vo dao. And he saw that these people that were teaching these sessions were not even black belt. He goes, why not? So I have my red belt, you know, so we can start a program and just have fun. So it started as...
Let's get together, let's train, let's have fun. But that became soon a very serious activity. So every year, you know, I would do that in college. And then in the summer, when I go to see my family, I would go back to that school and I would continue to train. So that's kind of like how I started my journey in the martial arts. And this was around 92, that I became very serious about it.
Jeremy (13:02.053)
There's a lot there. There's a lot we can go to and you can probably see the wheels turning my head and wondering where we go. I want to go back and I want to talk about the Taekwondo that you saw before college. Right? So the... okay. And then... and where did you go to college?
Mathiam Mbow (13:04.343)
Yeah.
Mathiam Mbow (13:26.598)
So, excuse me, I went to college in a city in the north part of Senegal called St. Louis. That's the name of the city. At the time, there was only one university in Senegal, which was in Dakar, the capital of the country. And three years prior, that university was open. So I was like third generation to attend that university. So there was not like, there were maybe a total of a thousand students, if that.
Jeremy (13:49.687)
Oh wow.
Mathiam Mbow (13:56.51)
So it was like a deserted area when I went. So that was our life, you know? Everything was new. Exactly.
Jeremy (14:02.693)
So everything was new, right? And that's kind of interesting. This is kind of the sense that I was getting as you're talking about all of these different martial arts, all of these different opportunities. For most of us, when we go to college, when we go to university, it's new for us. But this was new for everyone. And there's something really interesting to me about that. And I imagine that the martial arts
Mathiam Mbow (14:21.706)
Everyone, totally brand new.
Jeremy (14:32.101)
Culture, you know a lot of times people go to college they go somewhere and they're training in a bunch of different things But there it's uncommon that happens most people I do this martial art, but I'm going to guess Tell me if I'm wrong That you weren't the only one like this that because so much of that was new that everybody was going Oh you do this. Well, I do this and there was a lot of sharing
Mathiam Mbow (14:39.385)
Thanks for watching!
Mathiam Mbow (14:56.874)
That is correct. And you are absolutely correct. And as a matter of fact, because of that, to promote the martial arts as part of the university culture, so to speak.
we would organize occasionally like this big martial arts night we called it, right, where we would collaborate, you know, we get together with other arts. So let's say the taekwondo folks will come and we'll, it was like a night of demonstration. So we'll do our taekwondo demonstration, the Virvadao guys would do their demonstrations, the karate guys would do their demonstrations, and then at the end what we do is we come together. So
Jeremy (15:12.855)
Mmm.
Mathiam Mbow (15:36.928)
it up with a judoka, a person that practices judo. And so we would show different self-defense techniques. So I attack, and so he attacks me and I do my dodging, my kicks and all that stuff. And it's fun. The crowd applauds. We're like, yes. And then I attack him and he takes me down. I thought the first time it happened, I thought I was going to die because when he dropped me, I didn't know how to fall.
All I know is that as I'm reaching over to grab him, I find myself upside down and I hit the mat so hard that I lost my breath. It was incredible. And you know, the benefit to that was you see stuff like that and you're like, okay, I realized Taekwondo is mostly striking and Judo is like pinning and taking you down and stuff like that.
So it created this friendly atmosphere where we would kind of like cross train.
So, you know, I would do my taekwondo and then the judo people would come and we'll teach them some striking and then we will go to the judo classes and they will teach us some grappling and some ways to pin people down and same as the, you know, kung fu at the time. Jiu-jitsu is very, very new in Senegal, like in the last couple of years. So at the time there was no jiu-jitsu, but judo is, judo was like one of the first arts to ever enter the country.
So we would do kind of like that. So you learned a little bit from the other systems while remaining true to the one that you really are driven to. So that was a cool experience.
Jeremy (17:22.273)
I think I heard you say, when you first saw Taekwondo, this is the martial art for me. You said something along those lines. But when you were exposed to all these other things, did that change?
Mathiam Mbow (17:30.134)
That is correct.
Mathiam Mbow (17:35.07)
No, not at all. Not at all because I still like the striking and it suited my body type. I'm a little taller. So, and I had fast legs that I could stand my ground in like a striking.
And I liked the idea of really getting in the ring with another opponent who's just as good as you are, maybe even better, and trying to figure out a way to knock him out. That was the main motivation for me to really do. It takes a lot of skill to be in the heat of the moment when everything is moving so fast to see that quick opening and be able to score that point.
whether it's just a point or you hit them hard enough that you knock them out. So that was the idea. Now, obviously things have changed since then and people don't smile like that. And when I say knock them out, basically everything we did was bare knuckles. We didn't have gloves because we were poor. We didn't have the means to buy gloves or the protective gear that was required. So, you know.
you come as you are and you fight as you are. So I'd be like in my shorts, in my t-shirts and that was it. This was basically like a street brawl. It was, but that suited me because for me it was a survival skill that I needed to learn and to learn that I needed to be in it and feel it and be able to understand how I can defend against it.
and try to make somebody else pay the price, so to speak, if what I'm saying makes sense. So that was it. However, I will say this, that's not what kept me in it.
Mathiam Mbow (19:26.194)
Yes, that's not what kept me in it. And I think maybe I'm not trying to take this conversation in a way that we don't want to because, you know, my life was never, was not always easy. Okay. And rumor has, I'm so sorry. I should have turned this off. I thought I did.
Jeremy (19:32.609)
No, no, please do, please do. Let's see where this takes us.
Mathiam Mbow (19:51.102)
Alright.
Mathiam Mbow (19:56.67)
I'm so sorry, I thought I turned the ring off but I missed it so...
Jeremy (19:59.853)
We've had over the years, we've had some very interesting interruptions. We'll just leave it at that. That's not even top 10. Please continue.
Mathiam Mbow (20:05.863)
Yes, I apologize.
Mathiam Mbow (20:10.86)
So, rumor has it that when I was a kid and a teenager, I had a temper that I was quick to anger.
And me learning that was kind of a way, in a way to let go of that anger or to express that anger. But that was not the whole thing. The whole story for me was I just wanted to learn how to defend myself because I've lived a hard life up to that point and I didn't want that life to continue be my existence.
what defines me as a human being. But I wanted to learn skills that if I were ever in a situation like that, I could assert myself, I could stand my ground. And I say that's not what kept me in the art, but that's the reason why I did it. I wanted to learn how to, so to speak, hurt anybody who's trying to hurt me or hurt my family. That was the motivation.
But that's not what kept me in it. What kept me in it after we had our very first test, my very first test in the art to promote to a next level. That was like going from white belt to yellow belt.
Jeremy (21:31.489)
And just I want to make sure because we've gone all over the place. How old were you? Okay.
Mathiam Mbow (21:34.354)
Yes, I was about 18, 19. I just graduated from high school. So yes, when I started really being serious in the art, I was like 18 years old. So this is my first year in college, like 19 or so. I'm old. So
Jeremy (21:53.481)
I've done the math, you're not old. Because if you're old, then I'm almost old. So you're not old.
Mathiam Mbow (21:57.13)
Almost. So after the test, this guy came from Dakar, the capital of Senegal, and he administered the test. There was a few of us testing. The room was hot, sweaty. And then he asked the question, how do you feel about the test? And we like very proud. We did a great job. We thought we did a great job. And we thought we deserved our next rank. And we were too excited. And then he said to us, yes, physically,
You did very well. You know, you did everything you were supposed to do. You met all the requirements to promote to the next level. And then he said, however, I want you to understand this very important lesson. Taekwondo is never about being the strongest person in the room or the best fighter in the room. Taekwondo is always about being the best person in the room in all aspects of your life. Not just as an athlete, but as a human being.
you need to understand what matters in life most. And that's not being the strongest person because no matter how strong you are, there is always somebody who's stronger than you. No matter how skilled you are, there is always somebody who's more skilled than you are. And all that physical skill you have, as you age, your physical abilities will start to diminish. So that, if you never measure your skill yourself,
based on your physical abilities, because that's gonna change. If nothing else, try to compete within yourself, not just what you can do physically, but how do you make yourself a better person? How do you make yourself more successful in your life? And how do you change lives? And that lesson, I never forgot. And then he looked at us and said, all of you are students, you are going to college.
And you are doing that because you want to build a better life for yourselves. You want to be successful in life. Make college your priority. Make school your priority. Be the best student you can be. So long as you're doing that and you are being a better version of yourself every day, you are indeed representing Taekwondo in the best of ways possible.
Mathiam Mbow (24:16.802)
That lesson stayed with me forever. He went on to say, this is something that you also need to remember. The best gift you can give a human being is the gift of life.
And then he said, let me explain. If you train in the martial arts and you get to a certain level of expertise and you have the skills, you're gonna realize just how easy it is to hurt a person. When you get to that level and somebody is trying to pick a fight with you or do something physical with you, making you angry, and you look at that person, know full well what you can do, and you choose to walk away from that.
you are giving that person the gift of life. And that changed my whole views about martial arts. What motivated me to wanna learn how to knock people out, how to defend myself, hurt anybody who wants to hurt me, I no longer had that desire. No longer had that desire. I competed, but I didn't compete at that point. Like, I'm gonna see how fast I can knock this person out.
I competed a whole lot because I wanted to test my skills against the very best and see how far I've come and how much I still have to learn. So that was my motivation for even entering the ring, not to win. I wanted to win, but I wanted to most more importantly, see how far I've come and how much I still have to learn, because every fight I ever lost was a lesson for me to improve, to go back in the gym and train even harder.
We got to the point where we knew each other so well that we would go to a tournament, I would win and the person would, we would finish the match, he would look at me and say, man, how did you score that point? And I would look at him and say, hey, this is what you did. That's why I was, I saw that and I did this and that's what happened. And then I would invite him to come to my gym, we would train together or vice versa that they did for me as well. And that created that friendship, that bond and that.
Mathiam Mbow (26:25.774)
made me realize this is what martial arts is all about. This is about bringing people together, helping people, elevating people so everybody succeeds. So as soon as that instructor said that, I just decided, you know what, he is right.
This is, I can change my life by applying myself more and not paying any attention to what anybody says or not paying any attention to how people feel about me. And that just changed my attitude about everything. I cannot care less if people doubt me, I'm still gonna prove them wrong. That's the best thing I can do. When people started being mean and telling me you are gonna be a nobody, you will not achieve this, you will not achieve that. I just laugh at it.
and I keep working hard too because I know what I'm capable of. So that changed everything and I started making school more of a priority. So my life in college was basically get up in the morning, go to school, after that go to the cafeteria, eat lunch, come back to my dorm room, maybe do some homework, stretch, do something and then in the evening go to taekwondo, come back, do my homework, get up the next day, repeat.
And I did that for four years, my four years in college. I did that. And as luck would have it, not to say that I'm the smartest, but I was able to maintain high enough grades that when I graduated from college, getting ready to go to graduate school.
we had an exchange program between UW-Madison, the University of Madison here in Wisconsin, and my university back home. There was an exchange program. And I was blessed enough to be awarded a full scholarship to come to Madison to pursue my graduate school. And coming here opened also so many doors for me that I wouldn't have had in Africa.
Mathiam Mbow (28:34.89)
And I attribute all that to Taekwondo, because had I not met that gentleman who told me, don't focus on your physical abilities, focus on making yourself better mentally, and to build a better life, being a good student and all that stuff, had I not met that person to give me that advice, that lesson, I don't know where I would have been or where I would be right now. So I attribute that to Taekwondo and come in here.
I really seized that opportunity to do well in school, while here, and as luck would have it, after my program was over, I still had a little bit of time left on my visa.
So the dorm that I was staying in, the owner of the dorm said, you know, I said, Hey, I have some time. It's the summer. I have some time left on my visa. And he goes, I can give you a job if you know. So he gave me a job and I was cleaning the property, making the beds, cleaning rooms and doing all that stuff. And he gave me a room to stay for free while I was still here. I'm like, why not? So that was weird. And that same summer.
Jeremy (29:41.049)
Perfect.
Mathiam Mbow (29:47.226)
I went to a job fair with a friend of mine who was living here that I got to know. So he was looking to switch jobs and there was a job fair here and we went to it and we walking around and I saw this lady, you know, can I say this? So I saw this lady, I thought she was hot. I'm like, I need to talk to her. So I, you know, I came and I started talking to her.
And she's like, you know what? I really like your personality. I like how the ease with which you communicate. I think we may have something for you. Why don't you come see me Monday and then we'll talk? And I'm like, yeah, right. My visa is going to expire here soon in the next few months. So she goes, don't worry about that. Just come and let's talk. So this was a telephone company that was in town.
So that very Monday I went to the office and I met with her and she called another manager and they hired me on the spot as a customer service representative because they thought that I had good inner personality and I could be good on the phone. Okay and I explained my visa situation and then they hired me still.
and then started talking to the president of the company, and they decided, all of them, that the company was gonna help me, sponsor me, so I could get my green card, so I could stay in the country. As luck would have it, I was the very first black person that company ever hired, and this was a brand new company starting, and I was the very first black person, so that was a way for them to also show inclusiveness and diversity. Now.
Needless to say, the initial goal that I had to talk and talk to that lady never happened because she was married, she was beautiful and we were...
Jeremy (31:36.643)
I was hoping that's where the story was gonna go. You were gonna get a job and a green card and a wife, and then she was gonna come on screen, but no, okay. All right, keep going.
Mathiam Mbow (31:45.194)
But we became best friends and to this day, we still talk. We still talk. And I met my wife in that company also, so yes. It worked out. So that's what happened there. And that's how I got to stay in the country. And voila, this was back in 99 that I started working there. I worked there for five years.
Jeremy (31:48.505)
That's great.
Jeremy (31:54.313)
Okay, so we're not too far off on that story then.
Mathiam Mbow (32:15.102)
Eventually I left the company and started working in the martial arts business. And then in 2010, I, my wife and I, we bought this location from a gentleman and we grew it and here we are now we are silver lining, Taekwondo and everything. Yeah.
Jeremy (32:31.349)
We're gonna talk about that in a minute, but I wanna go back because this is such an important arc in the story that you're telling. And it's something that I think people are more willing to talk about now than they used to be. And that is that the benefits of martial arts, the majority of them have nothing to do with self-defense. That all of the benefits that...
Mathiam Mbow (32:52.511)
That is correct.
Jeremy (33:00.237)
You know, we all know what they are. We talk about them. We advertise them in newspapers and online for kids classes. We seem to forget that these have continuing benefits for all of us, regardless of our age, to not just build, but maintain focus and discipline and increase the quality of our character.
Mathiam Mbow (33:12.802)
That's right.
Jeremy (33:23.501)
You know, we've heard this over the hundreds of episodes that we've done from nearly every guest, whether they say it directly or indirectly. These are good people. Martial artists are overall good people, and in my opinion, martial artists as a group are better than the average person, right? If martial arts makes us better, better versions of ourselves, then martial artists are better people. There's some logic in there. And...
You know, I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like if we put all the pieces together, we could say, if it were not for Tae Kwon Do,
Mathiam Mbow (33:55.362)
Thanks for watching.
Jeremy (34:04.017)
you wouldn't have met your wife, you wouldn't have moved to Wisconsin, you wouldn't have gotten this job, right? Like so much of your life today would not be there without Taekwondo. You'd have a very different life.
Mathiam Mbow (34:12.951)
Right.
That is correct. That is 100% accurate. So yes. And the benefits of martial arts that you're talking about, you know, it got to a point where it almost became cliche, but it is so true though. It is so true because first of all, you have to be disciplined to practice any art because it's not easy. You have to be disciplined to practice it. You have to be dedicated to keep doing it.
right? That perseverance and what happens even sometimes without the person realizing it, as you are continuing to train, you are developing those skills and they will seep out in other areas in your life. Like some martial arts, not everybody that practices martial arts does it for a living.
A lot of us have other jobs, but the same discipline we apply in our training, without even sometimes consciously thinking about it, we are applying that same discipline in our jobs. We are applying that same discipline in our relationships. So yes, whether we talk about it or not, those benefits are there. And for me,
knowing what my childhood was like and what I had to overcome to get to where I am. And knowing the doors that Taekwondo opened for me. Now, when I say that, I want to go back a step and say I'm a man of faith as well. So I know everything is by divine intervention. That's through martial arts that God worked.
Mathiam Mbow (35:56.578)
to open the doors for me. So when I say Taekwondo, yes, but I also am a firm believer that everything came from above. And that's the way it, you know, we always say God works in mysterious ways. In my case, God works in mysterious ways.
Jeremy (36:11.305)
What's more mysterious of a method than, okay, I'm gonna, I want you to go become friends with people by kicking and punching them in the head. And that's how I'm gonna work through you. Yeah, yeah. It's such a weird thing that we do, but at the same time makes so much sense, right?
Mathiam Mbow (36:29.639)
I couldn't have said it any better. So there you go. So being a living proof of the power of Taekwondo and the power of martial arts, that's why I am so motivated to do what I'm doing now, because I know if it helped me, it can help others. And as long as I'm in that position
instill in my students the same values that I learned through the art and the same persistence, so to speak, that helped me get to where I am. If I can help my students see that and realize that and understand their potential and truly work towards that potential, then I cannot think of a better job to have in this world.
Jeremy (37:17.633)
Yeah. Now.
Rank isn't the thing that I'm most interested in generally, but we've talked about a couple bookends here. Last we heard about rank from you, you were in Senegal and you had, I think you said your first test. And now we just heard a couple minutes ago, you have a school. Most martial artists never go on to teach for anyone else, let alone own a school. You must have kept going, kept...
progressing, learning, at some point started teaching, found that you enjoyed it, and all of these things happen. So talk about that because I want to know how that'll happen.
Mathiam Mbow (38:03.874)
So yeah, my wife and I, we have a school, we have a very large school. It's over 8,000 square feet in Madison. No!
Jeremy (38:15.917)
does she also train. Oh, OK. Oh, there's a story there. Your face says there's a story there. We don't have to tell it, but.
Mathiam Mbow (38:25.231)
She, let's just say that a few years ago she decided she was going to train and then she would come to class and then I would say everybody come to attention and all the students would say yes sir and then she would go yes honey that's not how it goes. So yeah that's not how it goes. So yeah.
Jeremy (38:46.948)
Oh
Mathiam Mbow (38:51.498)
I've been doing taekwondo for going on 34 years. I am a very, very beginner in the art. I'm a novice. And I've been teaching for the last 30 or so. I'm 52 years old now.
So when I worked at the telephone company that I talked about, what, how I started and stayed here, after I left, I had a couple of other jobs in corporate America. So I worked in corporate America for 10 years. And then in 2007, I worked for a company here in town, a very big company. And I was doing very well.
My father was really sick at the time. And then I got a call from my brothers and say, and they told me that there was not a whole lot of hope. And if I wanted to see dad alive, I better come home. And our son was just a year and a half at the time. And my wife was very adamant that if this was gonna be dad's end, he needed to meet his grandson before he went.
So I went to the company and I told them my father was very, very ill and I needed to go see him, but they wouldn't give me the time. You know, yes, that happened. They wouldn't give me the time. And they told me that they couldn't stop me from going. But when I came back, they couldn't guarantee that I would still have a job. Well,
Obviously, I don't even need to tell you what I decided to do. So we went and then when we came back two weeks later, yeah, they let me go. And then as luck would have it, again, the Lord works through in mysterious ways. One of my wife's friends said, hey, you know, much I know that Macham is in Taekwondo and he's been training, he's been teaching at the school. This guy, you know, through Craigslist.
Mathiam Mbow (40:44.254)
of all places. This guy just posted on Craigslist that he's looking for a Taekwondo teacher. And I thought my charm should apply. And my wife told me about it. At the time, I'm like, you know, that's a joke because people don't do Taekwondo martial arts full time, you know. People have daytime jobs and then they teach in the evening. So nobody, you know, it's not a full time job. She says, she said to me, what do you have to lose? Just apply. Like, fine. So I sent the email, it bounced.
And then I said, told you this was a joke. And she said, try again. So I sent another email and the very next day the gentleman responded and said, I need to meet with you because looking at your resume and your background, I think I have something bigger for you than just the teacher. So we met and...
He was a stunt person and at the time he got a gig to work on the movie Public Enemy with Johnny Depp. So he was hired to work on that movie and he said, I was looking for a teacher but looking at your background, I have two locations and I want to hire you as a general manager if you are interested. And I said, I am.
but I am currently training with another gentleman and I don't wanna take a job without his blessings because I would be working for his competition if I did. He says, I respect that. So I talked to my teacher at the time and he said to me, absolutely not, that he was not gonna allow it. If I went to train, if I went to work for this gentleman, he was done being my teacher. And then he offered me, he said, I cannot pay you as much as he's paying you but.
if you want to work at the school and help me grow it, then we can talk about that. And I called this gentleman back and I said to him, thank you for the opportunity, but my loyalty is to my teacher and he's not with it, so I'm not gonna take the job. And he said, no problem. So I went and I started working for my teacher. And then after about a month, he told me that he couldn't afford to pay me anymore.
Mathiam Mbow (42:56.362)
and I needed to find another job. And if I were interested in taking that job at the other martial arts school, he had my blessings. That made my wife very, very unhappy because I turned down a job that was paying me as much as I was making in corporate America. So to only about a month or so later, find myself looking for another job.
So my wife told me, call him back and tell him that you are still interested if the job is open. My pride wouldn't let me do that. So she's insisted, you know, I don't know what I would do or where I would be also without my wife right now. I got to tell you that. She's an amazing woman. So she says, you need to swallow your pride and call. You never know, but you want to know, unless you try.
So I called him back and he said, yes, you have a very good background and I'm very interested. However, I cannot pay you as much as I offered you initially, because I had to hire somebody else for it. And I understood that. But he wanted to hire me because he appreciated my loyalty. He appreciated that I wasn't just going to jump ship just because I could make more money and stuff.
So that was in January 2008. I started working with this gentleman. He was doing a completely different, you know, I was, I grew up in traditional taekwondo. He was doing more like the American sport taekwondo. So I started working with him and two years after that, he came to us and said, hey, do you want to purchase this location? Because I'm thinking of stepping away and I want to sell this one location.
And we talked a little bit and I said, sure, we, you know, but that was around in the height of the market crash. Banks were not lending money. Nobody was giving anybody any money. And as luck would have it, that same year I started working with him in 2008, I'm sitting in the office one afternoon and this gentleman walks in shorts, t-shirts, earrings, tattoos, loud.
Jeremy (44:50.657)
Yeah. Yeah, nobody was giving anybody money.
Mathiam Mbow (45:13.418)
He walks in and say, I want to train, I want to learn self-defense and I don't have time to do evening classes. This is the only time that I have during the day and I want to learn self-defense. How much and can you do that? I just came from down the street and I talked to that gentleman over there and they want to allow, they want to do any lunch hour classes because they don't start until four o'clock and I cannot do evening classes. I'm like, let's talk. What do you want to learn?
I want to learn self-defense. My wife and I would take a lot of trips to Chicago and the streets are not safe. So I want to learn how to protect her if anything happens. I said, OK, let's do it. Let's go. And so we started, I started training him during his lunch hours.
Little to mind, you know, as when you work one on one with somebody, you get to know a little bit about them. You talk and then we became very good friends. Turned out this guy is a multimillionaire, but you want to know it just by the way. He's the most humble person I've ever met. A multimillionaire owns his own company, does very well. But you wouldn't know. So he said, when I told him the opportunity that, you know, this gentleman.
offered to sell me the school. He said, it's about time. Cause I was going to talk to you about starting your own school. Cause you are too good to work for somebody else. And he said, if he's willing to sell, let's negotiate it. I will help you buy just like that. So we negotiated, we came to, uh, to an agreement and, um, you just go, all right. He wrote the check and that was it. That's how we became school owners. That was in 2010. And.
to this day, we're still running it. We rebranded it, we changed it a little bit in 2016 to make it even better. And we added some programs like an afterschool program. We are blessed.
Jeremy (47:10.413)
You look really happy as you're talking about this. I can tell, yeah. So.
Mathiam Mbow (47:12.57)
I am very, very happy, very blessed. Doing what I love to do, making an impact on people's lives and taking care of my family at the same time, I'm very blessed.
Jeremy (47:24.601)
What's better?
Jeremy (47:28.802)
What surprised you most?
between the difference of being an instructor, an employee, and owning and running the school. What was the part that made you go, I didn't even think about this, or I didn't know about this, or this was bigger or smaller or surprising, anything like that?
Mathiam Mbow (47:48.466)
Yes, and the big thing was growing the business and also finding the right people and they're taking care of them because when I started working for this gentleman, the second location that we currently own was kind of like relatively new.
So growing it to that point and having to find the right people to work in it and teach was also a challenge. And at that time it was, the economy was still a little shaky. So buying it and I didn't sleep much at night because it was always like, wow, when you are working in it and you're just getting paid, you don't really think about all everything that goes behind the scenes that pays your salary. But.
Being the owner, that was a big awakening. Like, I have to pay the rent, I have to pay the taxes, I have to pay the employees, and every time somebody would come and say, hey, you know what, we can't afford to continue training, we need to drop, I'm like, oh my goodness, what am I gonna do? People are leaving, I have all these responsibilities. So that was a big shock.
But you know, like everything else, if you learn and you are dedicated, you start to learn the ways to make it work. But the biggest thing for me was the fear of failure and the fear of failing the people that work for me because their livelihood depends on the success of this organization as well. We try to pay our employees very well. We have a good staff.
And we want to keep them because you're going to just walk off the streets and put an ad and hire people to become martial arts instructors. You know, they have to have the knowledge. It's a very skilled business. So we want to maintain the people we have and we want to pay them well enough that they don't desire to go anyway. But that means we have to Find more ways to make revenue.
Mathiam Mbow (49:53.374)
either increasing the student count or developing new programs. It's a fun challenge. It's stressful, but it's a fun challenge because it's like a game you're playing with yourself. Where do I go from here? How do I make this better? It's very interesting and I like it.
Jeremy (50:12.133)
Good. How have you changed, not just in terms of, now you own a school, but how about as an instructor? You've had a lot more time on the mats and you've been around a lot of people, you've had employees, I'm sure you've said, oh, I like the way they do that. So if we were to watch, let's say we all had some video of you.
teaching today versus 10, 15 years ago, what would we notice different?
Mathiam Mbow (50:47.47)
I got a lot smarter about the way I teach because early on when I was, when I started teaching or when I was a student, well I'm still a student, when I was learning it was all about how hard, how hard can I make the class. Really, how, you know, if you left the class and your legs were not shaking it was not a hard enough class. But that didn't necessarily mean we were doing it safely.
Jeremy (51:03.344)
Hehehehe
Mathiam Mbow (51:14.758)
So ever since that we purchased this location, the first thing I did was to become certified as a trainer because I wanted to understand how the body works. I didn't want to just like make a class so intense that people leave and never want to come back because they are too sore to come back the next day. Or make the class so intense when people may have some physical limitations or injuries of things that they are nurturing.
and I'm pushing them to the limit and make it worse. So I needed to understand to find that delicate balance of making the class hard enough that the people feel they are working harder, but doing it in a smart way. So I'm a lot smarter about the way I teach and I make the class more entertaining and you know, cause I wanna capture the kids attention. We have adult classes and I teach the adults in a different way as well. But with the kids, I wanna
emphasize, yes this can be fun but I want to emphasize that discipline. Because unfortunately this is just my personal view. We live in a time where if you give a kid a choice they will always pick that video game versus anything else. They will pick that iPhone, that iPad before anything else.
So how do I make the class fun, interesting enough that they're going to want to put that game down and attend and come to their class? But at the same time, I want them to learn that there is more to it than just having fun. I want them to learn.
the discipline, I wanted to learn the perseverance, that indomitable spirit that we talk about, everything that I learned through the art. But now we're trying to do it in a much nicer way and trying to speak the kids' language today because times have changed, times have evolved, and they learn differently, they connect differently. So I'm trying to learn ways that I can better connect with them when I'm on the mat and teaching instead of just kind of like drilling them.
Mathiam Mbow (53:22.978)
to tears, right? So if you watch the class, you will be entertained because I make jokes, I crack jokes, and I tell them just as a matter of fact, a lot of the kids, they don't know me as Mr. Bo, they know me as Mr. Crazy. So every time I have a new student, I introduce myself as Mr. Crazy. And I tell them, and you're gonna find out why they call me Mr. Crazy. And now they're like, whoa, right?
Jeremy (53:39.097)
Hahaha!
Mathiam Mbow (53:49.306)
So we get on the floor and I start cracking jokes and I do things and they laugh and then I bring them back to the technique we are working on and then making them doing it. So, you know, it's a it's a lot more interactive in the way I teach the kids with the others. Exactly. There is there you go.
Jeremy (54:03.765)
learn a lot better when they're having fun. We know this about kids, somehow we often, especially in the martial arts, ignore that. But here, you said this in a rather humble way. I'm going to say it a little bit more directly. There are two kinds of instructors. There are instructors who say, I'm going to do it this way, and you can come and if that works for you, great. And if not, get out. I don't want to see you.
Mathiam Mbow (54:12.344)
Yeah.
Jeremy (54:31.317)
And what I'm hearing from you is that because sharing this information, because giving the opportunities to students that Taekwondo gave to you is so important to you, you're willing to change who you are, where you are to meet their needs so they can get the benefits. And I, and that is just such a powerful sentiment. And it's one that I hope folks in the audience recognize it. I think we're getting better.
Mathiam Mbow (54:50.743)
That is correct.
Jeremy (55:00.289)
In the martial arts, people are getting better about, I need to meet my students where they're at instead of trying to force them into a small box that is how I want to teach.
Mathiam Mbow (55:10.003)
way.
Jeremy (55:12.589)
But what's a teacher without students?
Mathiam Mbow (55:14.018)
That's exactly, there you go.
Jeremy (55:16.525)
If you want to be a teacher, you have to have students. Having very high standards that no one can meet is pointless. If they're not in your class, you can't help.
Mathiam Mbow (55:19.08)
Right.
Mathiam Mbow (55:24.746)
That's correct. That is correct. Yes sir. Very well said.
Jeremy (55:34.297)
So what's going on now? You talked about the enjoyment of sort of, I would call it a puzzle, of putting together a successful martial arts school and growing it while also maintaining the integrity of the art that you teach, which is a difficult challenge. And I'm not pretending for a moment that is easy, but you've got all that you're working on. And I imagine somewhere in there, you're trying to train on your own. You have family.
Jeremy (56:06.617)
One, how are you balancing all of that? And two, what are you looking forward to in the future?
Mathiam Mbow (56:13.554)
So the first part of that question, how am I balancing it? That is something I'm still learning. It's very difficult to balance all of that. But one of the things we are doing is we are trying right now with the staff we have building the school where it's not personality driven. In other words, where people don't just come here because of my personality, because of me.
I want people to come here to work with me, but I've trained my staff well enough that we are all on that same page as far as the mission and what we want to accomplish with these kids.
And now I'm starting to slowly pull myself off the mat because, you know, I do teach, I enjoy that aspect. I do teach whenever I get the chance to. But as the business is growing, I do a lot of the initial consults with members. So I have a lot, you know, a lot of times I'm doing that. And inevitably, people always ask me, are you going to be the one teaching the classes?
Sometimes I am, but I also have a team of highly trained, qualified instructors, and you'll be working with them mostly. You will still see me, but most of the time you're going to be working with those guys. And once they step on the floor, they're going to realize that everything is kind of like the same as I introduced it to them as far as the lessons, what they are learning and all that stuff. So that's starting to free me up a little bit so I can balance that work.
family life a little bit. Otherwise, up until recently, I was on that floor all the time, teaching and teaching and teaching and teaching. So it's a delicate process and not one that is so easy because it's not cut and dry, right? It's not like I do this, I do this, and then I go home, I do this. So there's a lot of moving pieces. So that is balancing it is still something I'm learning.
Mathiam Mbow (58:14.19)
and hopefully getting better at. My wife may have a different take on that. But we'll just say that we're trying our best. And the second part of that question, remind me again. What do I look for? Yes. So yes. Yes. So what I'm looking forward to right now, my wife and I, we are kind of like starting to talk about an exit strategy.
Jeremy (58:22.2)
Hehehehe
Jeremy (58:29.517)
the future, as we look out a few years, what's come in, what are you looking forward to, what might change?
Mathiam Mbow (58:44.25)
in the next 10 years or so. So we started to plan when our son graduates and he moves on his own. Our son is a musician, he's aspiring to be a professional musician which means that he probably gonna be traveling a lot more. As a matter of fact we just came back from Atlanta yesterday for a show he was doing up there.
And as that continues to grow and he continues to be successful, we want to have time to be able to attend most of his shows and travel with him a little bit. So see the world is one of the goals we also have. So that's something I'm looking forward to building that future with my wife and following our son around.
see his success as well. Hopefully that's going to happen. If she were here she would tell me not hopefully when it happens she would say. She's very positive in that regard. So that's what we that's what we have going on. So trying to plan an exit strategy and grooming the stuff we have right now so they can take over the business if we need to step away from it for a minute.
But I'm still training. I still train. I have a teacher. Um, my instructor lives out in Colorado. He's a ninth degree black belt. He's a grand master, the highest you can go in Taekwondo. So I still work with him. Um, right now it's difficult because I don't have that one on one with him all the time, but
Jeremy (59:56.613)
Okay, you know what?
Mathiam Mbow (01:00:15.718)
I record videos, me doing my techniques and stuff, and I send them to him and he corrects them and we'll get on a Zoom call, he'll fix things, and then occasionally I'll travel to Colorado and we'll train for a week or so, and sometimes he'll come here and then we'll train. So we're gonna get together again in November in Maryland so I can continue, because I'm always a student. Once a student, always a student. That's correct. Yes, sir.
Jeremy (01:00:41.455)
The best teachers are also students.
Mathiam Mbow (01:00:46.294)
Yes, sir.
Jeremy (01:00:47.149)
People want to get a hold of your website, social media, email, anything like that you want to share.
Mathiam Mbow (01:00:52.114)
Yes, you know, you can go to our website is www.silverliningtkd.com.
Mathiam Mbow (01:01:02.758)
We are on Facebook, SilverLine in Taekwondo. If you just type in SilverLine in Taekwondo, Facebook, you're gonna see us. Same as Instagram, TikTok. We are on all the social medias. Yeah, go ahead and follow us. It's gonna be, it's great. We do have a lot of things coming up. We try to do our part and not only impact the students we teach right now, but we also try to impact our community and serve our community.
we really pride ourselves in doing is organizing free events for the community. We have one coming up where we're going to be doing like a free women's self-defense class, you know, because things are happening in this world and unfortunately not all of it is good. So we just want to do our part and help as best as we can.
Jeremy (01:01:54.573)
And I applaud you for doing that. I just, you know, watching this circle, you know, watching how strongly martial arts changed your life and that, you know, it almost seems inevitable that you would end up taking a role where you can do that for so many others. And I just think that's great. And I appreciate that you've done it. Audience, whistlekickmartialartsradio.com for the links, you know, everything we talked about today, transcript, all the other good stuff and the show notes, whistlekick.com.
if you're up for learning more about our mission to connect, educate, and entertain the traditional martial artists of the world. But Macham, if you wouldn't mind, this is your time to close us out. What words do you want to leave the audience with today?
Mathiam Mbow (01:02:40.182)
Simple, if you are currently enrolled in the martial arts, just understand that you're gonna get more out of it than just physical strength. So if you are enrolled in the martial arts and you are a dedicated practitioner, don't let those challenging moments make you stop or redefine your trajectory in the art. You keep persevering, you are better than.
what sometimes we give ourselves credit for and we can achieve anything we put our minds to. It's not always going to be easy but definitely a road worth traveling. If you are not in the martial arts or you don't have a kid in your kids enrolled in the martial arts you should I would strongly recommend that you consider signing them up for a martial arts program in your area because
Mathiam Mbow (01:03:34.668)
in that environment is beneficial for all children. So what I would leave people is keep training and keep believing in yourself and the sky's the limit, always be your best. That's our motto, how we finish every class. You know, we go one, two, three, and everybody goes, be your best. So always be your best. That's what it is, always be your best. Try to always strive to be a better version of yourself today than you were yesterday.