Episode 657 - Rank Systems Aren't Equivalent
In this episode, listen in as Jeremy and Andrew ponder on why Rank Systems Aren't Equivalent.
Rank Systems Aren't Equivalent - Episode 657
Are you worried or annoyed by the rank of other martial artists? Is your rank inferior to the other guy’s rank from the other school? In this episode, Jeremy and Andrew talk about how Rank Systems aren’t equivalent and why you shouldn’t be threatened or even ashamed if another martial artist outranks you. Listen in and join the conversation!
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What's going on everybody? Welcome. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio. And today Andrew and I are talking about rank systems and the fact that they're not equivalent. And maybe people need to stop worrying about it so much. Stick around, it's gonna be a great conversation. Of course, if you're watching, you can see us, Andrew Adams here on my left, I'm Jeremy Lesniak founder of whistlekick. And we do what we do, because we love the traditional martial arts. And if you want to see all the things we do, go to whistlekick.com, you're gonna find a ton of stuff over there, including our stores. It's one of the ways we pay the bills. Look at this expensive set we have here it's very expensive,
Andrew Adams:
Great set dressing.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Look at the plant. We have plants, we have plants now
Andrew Adams:
It's not a fern though.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's not, it's not and there's only one. Between two avocados? Go to whistlekick.com, you probably won't find anything as humorous is this. But there are other things over there and if you use the code, PODCAST15 you can save 15%. Get yourself a hat, maybe a hoodie. There's all kinds of cool stuff over there. Now if you want to go deeper on the show, whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. That's where you're going to head for that. Every episode we've ever made available for free. You get transcripts, show notes, links, photos, videos, you name it, it's over there. If there's a particular episode that you really enjoy, and you want to go back to it and learn more about the guests or the topic. That's where you want to go. When you sign up for our newsletter. And if you really want to support us, we have a Patreon patreon.com/whistlekick, there we go. Bringing you exclusive content depending on the tier you're at, you're getting more and more and more and people rarely stop their contributions, which tells us we're doing something right. Okay, let's dig in. The genesis for this, this one was my idea and it came from my frustration, people complaining about other people's rank. Blah blah this must be a McDojo, because they gave this rank to this person under these conditions. blah blah blah.
Andrew Adams:
Mm hmm. Heard it all the time.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Why does that necessarily make the school bad? Why is hypothetical person complaining definition of X rank? And usually this comes up with black belt, but I've seen it a with every rank. Yeah, that person's not a green belt, they didn't do this, or they only do this or this time. Why does that matter? Why does what you put in for your black belt? I mean, different than what I put in for my black belt have any impact on me?
Andrew Adams:
It shouldn't at all? I mean, that's the ultimate answer. It should have no bearing whatsoever. And I think it all stems from what does the black belt mean within a school? To me? My answer is, they've quote, I hate to use the word mastered, but like they've got a strong foundation in the basics for that school. Every one school is gonna have different basics, or different amount of them, or why
Jeremy Lesniak:
Define understanding is different,
Andrew Adams:
Correct, absolutely. It's all different.
Jeremy Lesniak:
On the show, we often come back to the analogy that a black belt or you know, the equivalent rank and systems that don't do a black belt is kind of like a bachelor's degree, like a four year degree, University, College sort of thing. A lot of martial arts schools take roughly four years during a black belt. It's not a bad analogy. I've never heard someone from Yale complain that somebody else has a bachelor's degree from Phoenix University online, right? Like, I think we would all imagine that a Yale education would probably be more rigorous, would probably carry more weight in the world, but at the end of the day, the piece of paper is going to say that the degree is the same. And it's probably no mistake that we use degrees in academics, bachelor's degree, associate's degree, first degree second degree, Black Belt.
Andrew Adams:
I hadn't thought of that. Yeah, interesting.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I just thought of it right now. Did you like how I
Andrew Adams:
That was good, just came off the dome?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Like it's something I've thought about for a while? There's there are no notes on this episode. We're just rolling with it. But it's a subject I've thought about a lot. It's a subject that really other people's perceptions really frustrate me. Because it seems like they're dedicating their time they're making excuses to not train. How do I present this in a way that will never get back to the person? Somebody I know, like and respect, both for their personality and their skill, as a martial artist. Has individuals in their organization that hold rank. That if I look at it, through my perspective, my lens, are utterly ridiculous. They're not even remotely equivalent. And what I mean is people with far less time under their belt significantly younger, like they could be my kids. Like, if we really push the biology could be by grandkids outranking me. So what? How does that change my life? It doesn't?
Andrew Adams:
No, it doesn't. And it doesn't change your training at all.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It shouldn't. I think what we run into this is kind of a notch down from that standard ego-centric instructor, almost, it's become a cliche on the show, we talk about it so much. I feel like this is a lighter, lower version of that. Yeah, someone defines who they are, and who they are as a martial artist so strongly by their rank, that if someone else seems to threaten their position of their rank, they fall apart, which is the third, when you think about it really is.
Andrew Adams:
Every school is different. Even within an organization schools can different.
Jeremy Lesniak:
People are different it's going to be different.
Andrew Adams:
All the rank system is used for is to determine where one particular student is in relation to the other students in their school. And I think that's where people have a problem they get hung up on, it's within their school. I mean, at a particular school, should someone who is a black belt or equivalent thereof, should their stuff look better than yellow belt or green belt? Well, yeah, you would expect that to be the case,
Jeremy Lesniak:
Generally speaking. Yeah. There may be some odd exceptions. Physical limitations and whatnot.
Andrew Adams:
But I would say even in that case, that black belt will understand the material better than the lower rank. It is unrealistic for me to then say to that black belt and compare it to another black belt on another school, who trains in something totally different. Totally different set of expectations from the school. different set of material being learned. It's totally, totally different. And so the fact that people take such umbrage with someone who has a good word... Take such umbrage with this other school, who cares, you do your own thing, it doesn't matter what everyone else is doing. You know. My stepdaughter is in the fourth grade. And they are often told in class, you just deal with your own stuff. Don't worry about what the other kids are doing. And you know, Tommy is, you know, throwing his pencil on the floor, we'll just ignore him, you deal with your own stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If I have a fixed amount of time, energy, money in my life at any given point, which I do, right, then certain limitations, I mean, maybe I can sleep a little less. But right, there's a fixed amount of all three of those. Why am I going to spend any of it on somebody else who does not have any impact on my life? It is an utter waste of time, every minute, or ounce of energy, dollar that I spend on some person on the other side of the world, doing something with their training, who I will never meet, never trained with, and is unlikely to have any amount of influence on my life in any way. It is a waste. And I would go so far as to say a foolish expenditure. Let's go back to the academic analogy. You've been in classes, academic classes. I've been in academic classes. I bet somewhere along the way we took the same class. Yeah, that's some kind of writing class maybe even have the same you know, 101, 102 whatever designation. I took calculus, you know, as a math, whatever, you know, it wasn't quite a 101 level class. But consecutive numbers. Yep. I guarantee you I can find a school that had a full year of calculus with those same numbers, and a completely different curriculum. Guaranteed a better instructor. Why? Why does it matter? Yeah.
Andrew Adams:
It Doesn't
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now, let's try to flip this on its head to be a little more empathetic to the people who've been beating up this whole time, because there are a lot of people out there who may agree with us, but are still finding a visceral reaction. They're finding some emotion in there. And they may say, you know, Andrew, Jeremy, I hear what you're saying I understand. But I don't feel like you're a grouping of all this as an ego response is necessarily accurate. Okay. Now, I would say that there may be some people in that group who just don't realize that's what's going on. But we have been taught culturally, socially within our schools, to treasure rank, to treasure our black belt, to the point where it was only a few years ago, I learned that the American Karate tradition of not washing your belt is not something done universally, in Karate. Forget about where it came from. It's irrelevant. The fact that we have become 11:38 tunnel vision on rank, we have convinced the rest of the world that a black belt is something that is standardized. We lament, oh, and they quit just before they are in their black belt. Oh, you know, I earned my black belt, and then I dropped out, right? Like we use it as a line of demarcation. In our martial arts, we have done it for a long time. We continue to do it, in our schools, and out in the world in pop culture. How else can we expect people to react if this is what we're going to do?
Andrew Adams:
That makes a good point. I hadn't thought about that. How we, you're right, we very clearly have a demarcation. At that time, in someone's training.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Everything is termed before after. It's the numbers, the gups, the cues, you know, depending on what system you're in, or its degrees of black belt. So here's what I would say. There's a box around you and your training that you have control over. If you have longer arms, you can extend the box, right? I want to make a movie about a mine who's a martial artist...
Andrew Adams:
But he's stuck in a box.
Jeremy Lesniak:
No, like, he's just like, he's miming. And then he's like, ah, that's for another time. Okay, sorry. We're both in a mood. Like if you got here in like a normal mood. And I've been in like a distracted weird mood, and I pulled you over the line. I pulled you over the black belt 13:27. I can't control what another school is doing. If I can't control it, it doesn't affect me. And let's be honest, it may work for them. Why is my definition of black belt, right? Why is it right? Everything else we talked about on this show? It's not necessarily right. It just it is what it is. So instead of trying to make everybody else like you, let's celebrate the differences.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, why? Why try and make everyone fit into your box. Everyone has their own box.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There are people who will resonate better with a school where rank is more difficult. There are people who will resonate better with ranks is less difficult. And I will always come back to my belief that any training is better than no training. And that any school that keeps people training in a safe ish, healthy ish, mutually beneficial environment is a good thing.
Andrew Adams:
Agree.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Anything else we should know?
Andrew Adams:
I think we could probably delve further into this maybe in another episode. We could maybe next week.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And if somebody wants to tackle this, if you have feedback if you have stuff. Let us know. You know one of the things I hear offhanded, you know I get emails, you probably get emails Facebook messages. I like this episode. I like this. You know, we don't Get a lot of the healthy criticism that we used to. And I honestly like I miss it, I like it. So let's take this opportunity to invite healthy criticism if you have a different perspective. Because let's face it, a lot of the things I believe have come from working those things out in past episodes of the show. Yeah. And if you look at something differently, I want to know what that is doesn't mean that I'm going to change your mind. You're gonna change my mind. That's not the point. If you when I spar, the point is not for me to win, or for you to win. The point is for us to collaborate..
Andrew Adams:
and mutually grow
Jeremy Lesniak:
Physically and get better. Yeah. So why can't we extend that philosophy to our discussion? We can, we should and I hope people watching or listening.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah. Healthy Criticism is good. And it promotes discussion, which then promotes more thinking about stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know, all I've ever asked is that people think
Andrew Adams:
Yep, and and I suspect this episode is being recorded before the episode, before it is going to come out. We may have some feedback after last week's episode. Cool. We will see.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let's see what happens. All right. If you want to get in touch with us, Andrew@whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, Jeremy@whistlekick.com. All of our social media is @whistlekick. We've got books on Amazon, we've got stuff in the store. We've got the patreon.com/whistlekick. We've got programs at whistlekickprograms.com. Do you want to get stronger? Do you want to get faster? Do you want to be better conditioned? Do you want to get more flexible? Go check those out, whistlekickprograms.com. Sign up for the newsletter. There's stuff all over the place. If you're not paying attention to all the things, it's probably because you have a life. I don't. So that's why we do all these things that we do to make sure that there's at least some aspect of what we do that resonates for you. And if you appreciate that your support in any way, reviews, whatever is appreciated. Anything else? No, I think that's it. Until next time, train hard smile. Have a great day.