Episode 995 - Martial Arts Organizations: Ins & Outs

Join Andrew, Jenni and Craig as they discuss the ins and outs of martial arts organizations.

Martial Arts Organizations: The Ins & Outs - Episode 995

SUMMARY

In this episode, Andrew is joined by Jenni Nather and Craig Wharem and they discuss the various aspects of martial arts organizations, including their benefits and drawbacks. They explore the importance of community, the legitimacy that associations can provide, and the cultural impact of being part of a group. The conversation also touches on personal experiences with associations and the value of mutual respect among instructors.

TAKEAWAYS

• The camaraderie among school owners can enhance the testing experience.

• Associations may provide legitimacy to martial arts training.

• It's important for students to see their instructors learning from others.

• Joining an association should serve the needs of the school.

• The culture of a school is influenced by its associations.

• Not all associations require payment or strict adherence to rules.

• Rigid structures in associations can hinder personal growth.

• Community events can enhance the martial arts experience.

• Success in martial arts does not solely depend on being part of an association.
  

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction

01:48 Exploring Martial Arts Organizations

03:22 The Value of Community in Martial Arts

14:21 Global Martial Arts Associations

20:55 The Pros and Cons of Joining Associations

After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it. Don’t forget to drop them in the comment section down below!

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Andrew (03:48.644)

Welcome you're listening or perhaps watching the next episode of whistlekick martial arts radio and today in episode 995 we are here to discuss martial arts organizations their ins and outs This could get a little dicey. I'm joined today by two great friends of the show and of me personally. Mr. Craig Wareham Craig. How are you today?

Craig Wharem (04:17.343)

I'm great, Andrew. Thanks for having me on again.

Andrew (04:20.258)

I know it's like I don't know episode number that you've been on.

Craig Wharem (04:25.079)

This is 995, right? So this is episode 993 of me being on the show.

Andrew (04:29.66)

And we're also joined by a recent guest you will have remembered her from her Monday interview last week, which was Miss Jenny Nather. How are you?

"Philly Jenni" Nather (04:45.325)

I am great.

Andrew (04:48.204)

Awesome. Awesome. It's great to have you guys here. We're here to discuss martial arts organizations, but before we do, want to make sure that people listening or watching, please support the show. There are so many ways you can support the show. You can do that by just sharing an episode, right? That's the easiest, cheapest way to help the show is tell people about it. If you are watching on YouTube, which you should, cause then you could see, you know,

all of the glory that is on the screen right now. Hit the like, you know, subscribe on YouTube. Hit as they say, hit smash that like button. Subscribe so that you know when all of our episodes come out. Comment. Let us know what you think of the episode. You also can go to our website, whistlekickmartialarchradio.com. You can find out everything on every episode that we've done, all 994 other ones, as well as this one.

You'll find show notes, you'll find transcripts, extra photos, contact information for some of our guests. But you can also go to whistlekick.com. Another way you can support us is to check out the other things that we do. Perhaps you want to attend an event like free training day mid Atlantic or Marshall summit or whistle kicks all in weekend. Or maybe you want to purchase a training program.

Maybe you want to get stronger. Maybe you want to get faster. Maybe you want to get more flexible, which, by the way, the flex program completely free. But anything else you purchase at Whistlekick.com, for the most part, anything, you can use the code podcast one five and save yourself 15 percent. And we would greatly appreciate that. You can also support us by joining our Patreon, P A T R E O N slash Whistlekick, Patreon.com slash Whistlekick.

And you can get access to some behind-the-scenes footage extra episodes Maybe some book drafts of books that come out And so for as little as five dollars a month you can help support the episode So on that note Craig and Jenny, it's great to see you guys

Craig Wharem (07:02.761)

I know it's been so long since I've seen your faces.

Andrew (07:05.601)

I know. Yeah, we should do this more often.

"Philly Jenni" Nather (07:06.285)

I

Craig Wharem (07:08.151)

We should. We should start a podcast or something, guys.

"Philly Jenni" Nather (07:09.704)

We really should!

Andrew (07:13.808)

You know, that's a great idea. Let's do this a podcast. Maybe I should just record this.

"Philly Jenni" Nather (07:19.019)

goodness, what a brilliant plan.

Andrew (07:22.32)

Done. All right. So we are here to talk about martial arts organizations, know, some maybe associations, know, of people coming together, maybe a coalition, that kind of thing. And Craig, you know, we were chatting before we started recording. You mentioned that you were kind of at an event this past weekend. You want to talk a little bit about that?

Craig Wharem (07:22.711)

Yeah

Craig Wharem (07:49.599)

Yeah, so I run a couple of schools in New Hampshire and every other week I get together with five or six other school owners and we just talk in, you sometimes we vent about what's frustrating us or we talk about upcoming events and you know, I've been with that group, I want to say for about four or five years now and so throughout that kind of thing, what started to happen was the closer we got as individuals, the more we started to want to combine our efforts. And so

The cool part about that group is we don't wear our uniforms or our belts. We just kind of show up. We, you know, we do have an hour of some sort of physical training and everybody kind of takes charge once, you know, it cycles around and then we do an hour of business. so one of the people in our group reached out and said, Hey, I'm doing this black belt testing. I'm celebrating 25 years of running my school. Does anybody want to send anybody to be part of the test?

And it ended up being that there were four schools each sending Black Belt candidates there. what was fascinating in it was everybody was testing on the individual requirements of their school or the instructor who was sending them, but the other people were cheering them on and certifying it as well. My own students, I had three of them go.

their certificate ended up with six signatures on it of people that they know and admire because we've done these other things together, but not people who necessarily put forth a curriculum. They're people who supported and verified the curriculum that I had set forth. And I thought that was kind of an interesting way to do it. It was that camaraderie kind of thing where it was just a bunch of people who are close getting together and sharing what they love with everybody.

Andrew (09:39.47)

Hmm. Yeah, and and I what I love about that is it's a bunch of like-minded individuals Always different schools that just decided to come together for mutual benefits, right? I was gonna say mutual beneficial, but that's dumb for you know Mutual you all have mutual goals, right? You you all had black belts that were that were ready to test and so you all came together and you

what I found really interesting is that your students tested under you. You were the one quote giving the test, but they were just there to watch. you know, let's face it, make maybe your students a little more nervous, right? Cause they're there. But it doesn't sound like this is an organization in terms of you've got to pay them a yearly fee or whatever, right?

Craig Wharem (10:33.823)

Right, yeah, so the students who paid testing fees would have gone to the instructor who sent them. There was no, you know, I didn't get paid for the other candidates that weren't mine.

Andrew (10:48.922)

Yeah, but I meant you, your school didn't pay to be a part of this group. Yeah.

Craig Wharem (10:52.151)

No, nope. It was just out of a mutual respect and an admiration of the owners of the school, the senior instructors of the school.

Andrew (10:59.898)

Yeah, that's cool. Jenny, what do you have you ever had any interactions like this or something of that nature? Do you have thoughts on that?

"Philly Jenni" Nather (11:10.245)

Something similar. I have experienced life in an association. When I first started training, my school was one of, believe it was five or six in the association at the time. And it was nice to see the groups of schools coming together to do events. Namely our tournament, we would hold an annual tournament where everybody would compete.

We would do a summer beach workout where we'd spend a few hours just in the sand and the water training together. And at all of these types of events, it was really cool that each instructor had some sort of specialty. My instructor was the forms guy. Another instructor, for example, was the chucks guy. Everybody had something that they could share that was a little bit different. So we would rotate between all of the different instructors.

Andrew (11:39.792)

Nice.

"Philly Jenni" Nather (12:00.449)

to get a little time with somebody we don't normally see on a daily basis. And that helped broaden our minds a little bit. So that was a really good experience for us. Over time, because of the way that those students, not those students, how do I wanna word this? Let me back up, because most of the instructors for the schools in the association,

trained together when they were younger and then as they grew up they all owned their own schools and became part of this association. And as that particular generation of school owners saw more things in the martial arts realm some of them weren't quite as comfortable staying within the framework that was built into the association. So schools began to leave.

Andrew (12:27.675)

Mm.

"Philly Jenni" Nather (12:50.582)

and the association began to shrink. And you could see the difference in our group events with all of these people missing now. So it would have been fabulous if we could have arranged for those schools to continue joining our association events, but sometimes the timing was bad and things like that, and it just sort of drifted apart. So I would say that that was something that I valued from association life that I definitely miss now that I'm not in an association.

Andrew (12:52.774)

Hmm.

Andrew (13:08.23)

Sure, sure.

Andrew (13:17.274)

Yeah. correct me if I'm wrong, was that organ, is that group of schools, was it again, something that you paid to be, your school paid to be a part of, or was it just like Craig's where it's just, it's just a group of instructors that have mutual respect for each other.

"Philly Jenni" Nather (13:35.925)

Let's say that information was above my belt rank. That was not something that I can say for certain. I have ideas, but I don't want to get anybody in trouble by throwing speculation. Right.

Andrew (13:38.952)

that's fair.

Yeah

Andrew (13:45.122)

No, no, totally. That's fine. so I think it's, you know, obviously what I'm getting at here is that there are different ways to have this sort of environment for your students. It could be a formal, pay, you know, your school pays to be a part of an association, which we'll talk about in a sec, but, or it's just a group of like-minded instructors, Craig, like you have. And I think there's a lot of benefits to having

"Philly Jenni" Nather (13:55.885)

Mm-hmm.

Andrew (14:13.724)

There are benefits to having either right it just depends on what you're looking for I think it's really great for our student or I'm gonna speak for you Craig It's great for your students to see that you have other connections in the martial arts world that you are not Isolated that you're a little island There's nothing wrong with being an island if that's what you want to be But I think it's really good for students to see that

you have peers that you work with because it shows that you're still learning from other people. It shows your students that you're still a student as well, right? And it gives them exposure to, it makes their martial art world bigger, right? Rather than just being so insular. And I think in both of your cases, you both had that, right? For your students and your schools. And there's nothing wrong with,

having an association you have to pay for, but in this case, Craig, it's interesting that yours is just mutual friends getting together to help each other out.

Craig Wharem (15:24.021)

Yeah, I think one of the things that I'm very grateful that this group does that we have is there's a delineation between, you know, a rank on a mat and in a class and then just a bunch of people running a school. Like there's a difference. So it's funny when you said peers, right? Because they are my peers and very much so, you know, we go to holiday parties together and the kids know each other, right? Like we're friends.

But on the mat, I'm comparatively lower ranked than all of them. We're taught, you know, seventh, eighth, you know, some ninth degree black belts. And I'm not that. But in the minute we're in a business meeting, that doesn't matter anymore. And I think that that's the key. If you ever want to build something like that, you have to be able to put aside everything from the martial arts side when you're doing the other side.

And we've talked a lot on the show and as a community, the Whistlekick team, about not putting people on pedestals and those things. And I found that to be a very, very successful way to do that. Because when you're teaching or running a school or doing martial arts, then maybe your training and the school closes for whatever reason, right? It could be any reason. You really feel alone and isolated and like there's no one else. You know, I'm willing to bet if we...

did a poll at some point how many martial artists have found themselves looking for an instructor again or currently don't have one is probably a high number.

Andrew (16:57.286)

Sure, absolutely. I I went through that very recently.

Craig Wharem (17:00.789)

Right, right. And we talked about it. I mean, the other thing I think that's really important to think about about associations or things like that is think of the word itself. You know, I would consider my relationships with Andrew and Jenny an association in a different way, because Andrew, you've come and taught at my school for events when I needed someone to help me out with something. Jenny, spoiler alert, is coming up to visit me next month, right?

"Philly Jenni" Nather (17:26.541)

you

Craig Wharem (17:29.579)

But we have this idea that an association always has to be formal. It doesn't. There's nothing wrong with the formal and the framework. If you don't want to put in lot of necessarily like maybe you don't know where to go in this area or you're not sure what to do in this, having an association in the framework is a great thing too. It really depends on what you're looking for.

Andrew (17:53.36)

Yeah, yeah. So let's shift gears a little bit and talk about. you know, the the associations that you two both have talked about have been, as I understand it, very local, localized. Right. Let's talk a little bit more globally and let's talk about like other or like larger organizations, whether and.

I'm not, we're not talking specifically about this organization or any other, but something like the, the Japanese karate association or the ISKA or, you know, all of there, there are lots of them, regardless of what, what martial art you study or what style you're in, there are associations. And when I was training with my last instructor, his instructor had passed away and

my instructor was feeling, was not a part of any association. We were very much like an island. And he came to me at one point and said, you know, I'm considering joining this association. And I'm not gonna name the association, but I'm thinking about joining this large organization that, the headquarters are somewhere in the Midwest, I think.

and I'm just not sure and what do you think? And my first question was, you know, what would be the benefit to doing that? Right? And for him, his answer was, it gives some, he didn't use these words, I'm paraphrasing, but essentially it was, it gives some legitimacy, and I'm putting that word in quotes, some legitimacy to the martial arts that is being taught. know, the students that get ranked from us will be ranked

under this organization. Jenny, do you have any thoughts on just on that?

"Philly Jenni" Nather (19:53.546)

I did the thing that was running through my head just now was what if somebody was going to the store and it was the first time they were making a large purse purchase on a particular item and do I trust the name brand over the knockoff? I mean everybody knows the name brand right? They carry a reputation. So which one are you as an outsider more likely to lean towards? The one with the reputation that you're familiar with.

Andrew (20:18.128)

Yep. Yep. Craig.

Craig Wharem (20:21.973)

Yeah, I think, I really think it depends, you know, I'm sorry, that's not, I keep saying it's kind of similar things, but as the instructor, an association can add legitimacy, of course, based on lineage or things like that. I know for me personally, the certificate I have that means the most to me, even though I don't, I've grown past this rank, I still want to hang it on the wall. It's signed by people that I know my original instructor respected.

that I've met. And it's not signed by people I didn't. So for me personally, I would prefer that. However, I think legitimacy depends on what you want to accomplish, right? What is your goal for teaching or training your students? And after that, then you work on the legitimacy part. Yeah, I think associations are great to build community. And again, to give framework if you're not sure how to structure a curriculum or...

or what requirements should be, associations can definitely help with that. To me, that's where the value is in something like that.

Andrew (21:26.532)

Yeah. And, and I know that if Jeremy was here, at some point he would use the, expression value exchange, right? If you're joining an association, and I'm talking about one that you're paying for, right? You're, you're taking money out of your pocket to pay to this association to join it. There has to be an exchange of value. There has to be a reason you have to get something in exchange for that. and that could be.

joining the community, right? You could be getting something out of it in that sense. It could be, like you said, Craig, maybe help with curriculum or getting those types of things, or maybe it gives you access to have those instructors come to your school to give some instructing as well. But it's all about a value exchange. And I think it has to be beneficial for all parties. And I think that's where you then start to build what I think is the most important part, which is

the culture of your school. And I know Craig, that's a huge thing that you and I have talked about. And I know you have a bit of a soapbox to stand on when it comes to creating a culture for your school. the culture that you have created by having these connections to other schools is what it is because of those connections.

Craig Wharem (22:48.279)

Right, right. And again, that's just the thing is I wanted my students to be able to have the access to as many martial artists that I could work with that I felt really fit into the culture we have. Is it a positive experience? Is it a supportive experience? And I think that that's important. And I think that joining an association will change your culture in one way or another.

100%, you know, we were talking before we started recording this episode that, yes, I could have tested my black belts and promoted them here internally, but the joy and the camaraderie they got from testing with eight other people from different schools that they didn't know and the confidence that they got after the one who tested with the least amount of experience was 19 years.

And the amount of experience they got having instructors of different, that never knew them, never saw them when they were kids, never, it hasn't known their journey, I think was very valuable. So it can go either way. It's all about how you frame it. You know, I think that one of the things that I hear a lot, because, you know, traveling around and talking, is people when they join an association at some point or another, they lose sight of why they joined it in the first place.

Andrew (24:14.448)

Hmm.

Craig Wharem (24:14.633)

And if you lose that sight, you need to work to regain it, is to serve in the culture that you want to build in your school. Because that's the most important thing. A culture in your school is going to happen whether you pay attention to it or not, so you might as well pay attention to it.

Andrew (24:27.588)

Yeah, yeah. And we've talked a bit about the plus side, the things you can gain from joining an association. But that implies that everything about joining an association is good. There has to be bad. mean, you can't have dark without there being light, right? So let's take a little bit of time to talk about some of the negatives. Like, why might you not want to join an association? You know, any thoughts? There.

"Philly Jenni" Nather (24:55.03)

Yeah, I'll chime in for this one. With the school that my husband and I currently run, we do not belong to an association. And one of the many reasons was that we didn't want to have to pay into the association, but we also didn't want to have to follow anybody else's rules. There were so many ideas and things that my husband wanted to do with his school. We didn't want to have to answer to somebody else.

Andrew (25:02.705)

Mm-hmm.

"Philly Jenni" Nather (25:21.959)

So we instead decided we're not going to belong to the association, but hey, these schools that are in that particular association, we're friendly with all of them. So let's continue to work together. More that idea of a coalition. You know, money can obviously be a hindrance for a lot of folks. Another thought that I had from the student perspective in my prior association, it felt like everything was so rigid and the people above you were

better than you. And it felt like by the time I reached the level that those folks were on, I need to be that in my own personality. And I felt like I was never going to be that. I was never going to be able to stand above anyone. So again, that's from my perspective as a student in that association, that may not have been their intent by having the structure that they did.

Andrew (25:53.692)

Hmm.

"Philly Jenni" Nather (26:20.129)

but it sure felt that way to me. So it was almost preventing me from wanting to advance and continue on. So they would have lost a lot of higher ups within their own association that way.

Andrew (26:29.052)

Yeah, there can be, yep, yep. I could see that. It would be really easy to not have, for lack of a better word, us versus them mentality. It wasn't that way, but I think my point I think is being made, that you have to be up to here to get at a certain level. Yeah, I get that. I get that. Craig, any other negatives that you can think of?

"Philly Jenni" Nather (26:55.757)

.

Craig Wharem (26:56.607)

No, think the thing that always pops in my head, the only associations I've ever been a part of are that of fellowship where it's just, let's just get together, let's just train, let's just talk. I remember being 18, 19 years old and running programs for the first time. And I found other 18, 19 year olds who were doing the same thing. And we just started talking. I always wanted that kind of, I'm not alone on this island thing.

Andrew (27:09.818)

Yeah.

Andrew (27:25.454)

Mm, yep.

Craig Wharem (27:26.423)

And I think that the thing that knowing me and how I think and how I act, and I'm sure listeners who know me would probably be surprised to hear that I don't do well with rigidity or being told what to do all the time if I disagree or not being able to branch out and exchange ideas, which I don't have any personal experience in an organization per se. But those are things that I hear about when I talk to others who are or have been.

is those things happen. you know, I think at the end of the day, it just has to serve you as best you can. And it has to serve you. An organization shouldn't be about you serving it. It should be about it serving you.

Andrew (28:09.057)

Exactly. That's, you took the words right out of my mouth for sure. you know, I think the biggest downside that I can see is kind of piggybacking off of what Jenny said is having this structure of having to do certain things or not being allowed to do things. I know, I know students at schools where they're not allowed to go to

other events run by other people. Or they're not allowed to, you know, do certain forms in front in public or whatever. there are things that they're not allowed to do or things that they have to do that maybe they don't want to do. And I think that's an important thing to keep in mind. I think Craig, your mention of

you when you join an association, they are there to serve you. That's one of the whole reasons to be a part of it, right? What are we missing? What are we not covered?

Craig Wharem (29:24.021)

I can't think of much of anything. I just want to clarify one point because the idea that the organizations should serve you and not you serve it does not mean that you don't respect and honor the people who have built it or the higher ranks, right? That's not what that means. Of course, if people honor their work and what they've done and accomplished that you find value in. But I've always had the firm belief that the higher you go in rank or in stature or whatever,

in martial arts, the more you should be striving to serve others. And I think that sometimes that might get lost in the fold. So I just think that that's an important distinction because I don't want people to you know, don't join an organization because they're to make you do what they want. Like, that's not the point. The point is that you can respect others, but they still can be serving you. Otherwise, there's no point.

Andrew (30:09.372)

Yeah.

Andrew (30:16.922)

Yeah. And I think just like when a student is looking for a school, right? You do your research. You should anyway, like check out some schools, see if they're going to match what you're looking for. The same is true if you, as an instructor, are looking to join an organization or an association, like do your research, like find out. You may join an organization and realize, you have to teach this form this way. Well, but you don't want to teach it that way.

But now you're stuck because you joined the organization. And I say stuck. It's not to say you can't leave, but, I'm, I will be shocked if there are people listening or watching that don't have comments on this episode. Tell us what you're, what your situation is like. Go on our YouTube page and comment, go on our Facebook group, martial arts radio.

where we'll post about this and tell us what is your organization like? What did we miss? Were there benefits that we missed? I'm sure there are because I'm not involved in the association. So maybe there's more that your association offers that we didn't think of because we are after all just human. We do forget things. great. What's that?

"Philly Jenni" Nather (31:31.714)

have another thought too. Yes, I've known some instructors who feel like they need to join an instruction and an association when they start their own school because they get this sense that I won't be successful on my own. But as a school owner, we are not a part of an association. I can tell you that's not true. So please keep that in mind. We still have

Andrew (31:47.804)

Mmm.

"Philly Jenni" Nather (31:58.614)

plenty of interaction with other schools in our area. Plus we draw from our friends that we've met from all over the country at this point. We host seminars at least monthly in our school and we travel to other schools to help teach. So it's possible you do not need an association for success. So be careful the reasons that you are choosing.

Andrew (32:21.446)

Yeah, good point. Very good point, Jenny. If there's anything else that we missed, you can email me at andrew at whistlekick.com. Craig, any you want to give your email if anyone wanted to reach out to you?

Craig Wharem (32:33.687)

You can email me at craig at whistlekick.com

"Philly Jenni" Nather (32:40.373)

And I'm the odd man out. am books at whistlekick.com.

Andrew (32:40.614)

Jenny.

Andrew (32:44.894)

Hahaha

Thank you for joining us on this adventure. we, hope you enjoyed it and we hope that you, whether you liked or didn't like this episode, share it with a friend or another episode. have 994 other episodes that you could listen or watch and share with friends. And we would really, really, really appreciate it. you can check out patreon.com slash whistle kick to help support the show financially. The show does cost money, believe it or not.

It does cost money and we would love for your help in making this episode happen and all of our future episodes. If you believe in connecting, educating and entertaining martial artists, if you think that everyone in the world would be better if they have trained for six months, help us. I'm wondering if we're gonna be able to do the outro all together.

Craig Wharem (33:43.829)

"Philly Jenni" Nather (33:43.872)

All at the same time?

Andrew (33:45.478)

Yep.

Craig Wharem (33:46.967)

All right, here we go.

Andrew (33:48.124)

All right, Jenny, are you ready?

"Philly Jenni" Nather (33:49.869)

Wait, wait, wait, are we gonna go on three or do we one, two, three, go? Okay.

Andrew (33:53.2)

Okay, it's gonna be one two three go Now you ready? Here we go. One two three train hard smile and have a great day

Craig Wharem (34:00.065)

Train hard, smile, and have a great day.

"Philly Jenni" Nather (34:00.077)

Train hard, smile, and have a great day.

OUTRO

Andrew (00:01.264)

Five minutes before I got online which meant I took daisy out Jenny will laugh because I had to get up during our interview and let daisy outside So daisy's outside right now. She's been outside for 10 minutes, which is plenty of time I'm gonna go bring her in and put her upstairs and then I won't have any distractions And then then we'll get going

"Philly Jenni" Nather (00:10.742)

Yes.

Craig Wharem (00:19.019)

Perfect.

"Philly Jenni" Nather (00:19.214)

Okay.

Craig Wharem (00:22.487)

Jenny, we could have just talked about books this whole time. Let's do a mini episode right now for the outtakes for books. So what's new in the book division?

"Philly Jenni" Nather (00:28.654)

Dude, Books, books are new in the book division. There will be books coming out and they're gonna look like books and be books. So, yes, my serious answer. My favorite one that is coming up is the Modern Dads of Martial Arts and it's gonna mirror the idea of Modern Moms of Martial Arts that we produced last year. So I'm looking for anybody who plays a dad role and also trains in martial arts.

Craig Wharem (00:37.001)

Is there one in particular you're super psyched about?

"Philly Jenni" Nather (00:56.908)

The stories can be anything. It can be stories about how you trained with your children or with your grandchildren, or it can be stories about how you trained in spite of your children. And you'll understand if that applies to you, you'll completely understand. So yeah, that's great. It's gonna be one of those ones that's hard. Like it'll get you. It'll make you cry, but for good reasons.

Andrew (01:12.988)

you

Craig Wharem (01:13.655)

I love it. That's super cool. I'm excited to read it. There you go, Andrew.

Craig Wharem (01:25.599)

I love it. So, Andrew, we just did a mini episode about one of the books coming out. So you just got like a 60 second blurb about modern dads of martial arts.

"Philly Jenni" Nather (01:26.583)

It's good.

Andrew (01:38.488)

awesome. That's cool.