Episode 993 - Being Underestimated in Martial Arts
Join Andrew, Mark and Nick as they discuss being underestimated in the martial arts. Should others underestimate you? Should you underestimate yourself?
Being Underestimated in Martial Arts - Episode 993
SUMMARY
In this episode of Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, Andrew, Nick, and Mark discuss the theme of being underestimated in martial arts. They share personal experiences and insights on how underestimation affects martial artists, both from others and from within. The conversation emphasizes the importance of self-perception, confidence, and the impact of external opinions in the martial arts community. They also touch on the challenges posed by the digital age and the significance of maintaining self-belief amidst criticism.
TAKEAWAYS
Being underestimated can be a common experience for martial artists.
Self-perception plays a crucial role in overcoming challenges.
Confidence gained from training can influence how others perceive you.
It's important to distinguish between realistic self-assessment and underestimation.
External opinions, especially in the digital age, can impact self-belief.
Community support is vital in combating feelings of underestimation.
Teaching others can reinforce your own self-belief and confidence.
Martial artists should strive to uplift each other rather than underestimate one another.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction to Underestimation in Martial Arts
05:39 Personal Experiences of Underestimation
09:43 The Importance of Self-Perception
12:15 The Role of Confidence in Martial Arts
17:07 The Dynamics of Physical Altercations
19:28 The Impact of External Opinions
22:00 Navigating the Digital Age of Martial Arts
25:32 Closing Thoughts on Self-Belief
After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it. Don’t forget to drop them in the comment section down below!
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Andrew (00:12.442)
Welcome, you're listening or watching to the latest episode of Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio. And although as soon as I say that, think, you know what guys, it might not be the latest, because you might listen, the person listening to this could be listening to it next year, which case it wouldn't be the latest. So you are listening to this episode of Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio. Thank you for joining us. I'm joined today by...
Mark Warner, Mark, how are you?
Mark (00:43.064)
I'm doing awesome today, sir. I hope you're doing well as well, as well as well.
Andrew (00:47.182)
Yes, indeed. You might hear a little raspiness to my voice because a little under the weather, but I'm doing pretty well. And then also joined by good longtime friend of the show, Nick Taber. Nick, how are you?
Nick (00:59.8)
Better than I deserve and feeling amazing, man. Thank you.
Andrew (01:02.926)
excellent. So we're here to have a fun chat, but before we get there, I want to make sure to let all of our audience know that we at Whistlekick do a lot of stuff and we'd love to have you join us on that journey. Maybe you're going to join us by going to whistlekick.com to purchase something, whether it's a t-shirt or a hat or a training program or come to one of our events that we do. don't forget if you do purchase something, most things you can purchase with a discount.
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make the show happen. So here we are to enjoy a fun conversation and we're here to talk about being underestimated in the martial arts. Now, Nick, I'm going to throw it to you because you brought this as a topic idea specifically with Mark being on the recording with us as well. So let's talk about being underestimated.
Nick (02:47.265)
That's it.
Nick (02:56.118)
Well, I I grew up in the martial arts and it was a very unique situation. know, on paper, I probably shouldn't be here. You know, I grew up with cerebral palsy and you know, what, you know, afflictions in my right side. So when you go through and they go, hmm, you know, kids would say, Tabor can do something. You know, he can, he can, he can do that. that's cool.
You know, and when we were growing up, right, you know, like the ideal martial artists that we always saw was, and I was a quote from a mutual friend of all three of us who said this, that, you know, we expected that a martial artist would be the guy that would take out six guys in an alleyway and not break a sweat. But the reality is the martial artist is the person whose car breaks down and they don't lose it.
You know, that's the real deal. That's our reality right now. Or something doesn't go wrong and then we pivot. You know, or if something goes wrong, excuse me, and you know, then we pivot to the right direction. You know, that's where it is. So we're underestimated as martial artists. think at first it's like, oh, don't mess with that guy. And then, you know, when you look at it and you go, no, you know, you can really trust this guy because, you know, he has...
Andrew (03:51.132)
Hmm.
Andrew (04:13.628)
Mmm.
Nick (04:20.43)
he or she has knowledge, but you know, has knowledge, but you know, they, helps us blend in society. If that's a good term, you know what I mean?
Andrew (04:30.938)
Hmm. Yeah, that makes that makes sense. Mark, what about you? What about your thoughts being underestimated in the martial arts?
Mark (04:38.256)
Well, I remember a time way back when this is early on in my training, somebody was going to deny me a black dog because I was unable to do a split. So I'm not quite sure what that has to do, being able to do a split has to do with being a great martial artist. But that's just one of the little things that I have seen through my time. Now I am where I am now and I'm teaching a lot of children and I'm
trying to make sure that they never underestimate themselves. I have a few that like to do that with this, that, and the other reason. I'm like, no, no, look this. I have one young man and he's always been very hesitant and very reticent about his abilities. He's on my double team and I've taken a lot of movies of him doing some outstanding stuff. So being underestimated is...
Andrew (05:10.204)
Hmm.
Mark (05:36.47)
not practical in any martial art.
Andrew (05:39.044)
Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. And I think it's an important distinction that we sometimes might be underestimated by others and we can't control that. That's something beyond our control. But I think it is important to understand that we can, but shouldn't underestimate ourselves, right?
Nick (05:39.511)
Mm.
Nick (05:55.181)
Mm-hmm.
Mark (05:55.194)
Thank
Andrew (06:05.786)
We can't control what other people think and or feel. And in a lot of cases, we can't control what other people do, but we can control ourselves. And I think, Mark, that's a really important distinction about not underestimating ourselves.
Mark (06:18.777)
Yes.
Yes, for sure, for sure.
Nick (06:23.202)
Yeah. I think that that's a really good point as well. And especially like myself, I teach a lot of people who have different disabilities. You know, that is, that has become my very big strong suit. And I've had a lot of people who have asked to underestimate themselves a lot and
Andrew (06:40.988)
Mmm.
Nick (06:42.99)
you know, the way I teach is to show very practical applications. Like right now I, I onboarded six students recently and they did not know a single thing about martial arts. Like we are coming up to, and this has a point to admit, not like a tangent, but we are coming to a point now where people do not know who Bruce Lee was. You know, that it's.
Andrew (07:09.628)
Mm.
Nick (07:12.608)
It's just a difference there that something's new. They're gonna wait. can't do, I can't change a, you know, somebody who's trying to choke me. I can't turn that around. yes, you can. Let me show you how to do that. And you know, we're the three of us have grown up with martial arts is that there are things that I we all have something that, know, that has held us back and what's what brought us into it in the first place.
Andrew (07:27.868)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (07:42.092)
You know, so the way that I show it is like I tell this story where, you know, my sensei never let me give up on anything. Therefore it produced a martial arts attitude for me. You know, where I would get into something and it would be like, you know, I got laid off in 2020, you know, from a very high paying job that I had.
And now I had to go, but I'm scared to death of shaking hands. And I heard, I heard him in the back of my head going, well, what the heck you gonna do? Retire? You know, you can't do that. You know, so well, you know, go back to the dojo days. Wednesday night was sparring night. That always is the same thing. You know, so you have to get on the ring and you have to spar. But are you going to stink at it? Yes. Are you going to get better at it? Well, hopefully.
Andrew (08:17.658)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (08:34.287)
Mm.
Nick (08:37.742)
but learn to live in the suck and keep moving, you know, and keep moving. So that translated to, I'm not the best fighter right now, but learn to do better. And then when I get laid off, it's like, okay, I'm going to do job interviews that are not that great. So I'm underestimating myself, but then where I'm like, oh, this is the, this is the first, there's the underestimation. So you know what? Go back to those lessons I learned in the dojo.
Andrew (08:56.029)
So, yeah.
Nick (09:05.762)
I'm going to suck at this right now because I haven't interviewed in 14 years on the other end. And now I'm going to be able to move forward there. So that's the attitude that comes along.
Andrew (09:07.132)
Thank
Yeah, yeah.
Andrew (09:15.023)
Yeah. And I think it's important, like we're talking about not underestimating ourselves, but having a realistic expectation of what you are comfortable doing, right? You you mentioned not being comfortable for a while shaking people's hands, right? Okay, so you lost some of those skills of, you know, being in the workplace or whatever, but that's not like they're not gonna come back. That's not an underestimating yourself. Like it's okay to be realistic.
I am in a few weeks having surgery on my foot. I'm probably not gonna be great at doing jumping spinning kicks anymore. I mean, I'm certainly not as good at doing them as I was in my 20s. But that's not me underestimating myself. And I think that's an important distinction, right? Knowing your own limits is fine, is one thing. But I think underestimating what you can do, I think is different. Mark, would you agree?
Nick (10:01.538)
Mmm.
Mark (10:12.956)
Definitely. One of the words I do not allow at my school is can't. We don't say that here. Now I was reminded last weekend by a fine gentleman that there's a better word, yet. It is probably, yes, probably the most, the strongest word in the English language. It's the second time I've heard it from you, but now I'm adapting it. So can't is not used here. Now when I'm teaching at my school, I teach from three to...
Andrew (10:25.596)
Mm-hmm.
Mark (10:44.112)
70 something in my martial arts classes. So when I'm teaching in my martial arts classes, a lot of times I'll have, adult classes, I'll have 18 year old to 70 year olds. And I'll say, okay, we're gonna do these kicks. And a lot of times, a lot of the kicks, like some of your spinning back kicks, jump spinning back kicks, are for the younger ones. And I'll look at the...
people my age, which is 66. And I saying, yes, sometimes I teach us things that we may not want to do on the street, which I believe is as important as teaching everything that we would want to use. I mean, if some technique is not comparable to my style of motion, we don't want to do it. It's not underestimating ourselves, it's putting ourselves in the proper direction. I myself, right to this time, I'm trying to get through it.
I don't do too many jump spinning kicks right now. However, even my top guy, 28 years old, he's like, nah, you can still take me, I think. So when we get the thought like this that we can put ourselves in these positions, it's a great thing. So that's it, and I'll come back because I have more about other people under us meeting us as well.
Andrew (12:08.54)
So the other thing I was thinking of is
And we probably have all had this happen or other people listening may have had this happen to them. When people find out that you do martial arts, they wanna challenge you, they wanna test you, right? And I have found that being, no, no, no, no, I'm not that good. know, works very well.
Nick (12:31.938)
Yes.
Andrew (12:46.2)
But I would imagine, like again, I'm thinking of myself. Oh, it just happens to me, for example, in a few weeks. Oh, I just had surgery on my foot. Like, yeah, no, no, no, no. It's, know, like they're gonna underestimate me because I have a bum foot. I'm okay with that. I'm okay if I get attacked on the street that somebody underestimates me. I actually want them to.
Nick (12:58.318)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (13:15.504)
because they're not gonna take me seriously. And I thought we could spend some time talking about that.
Nick (13:25.036)
Okay. So, yeah, I've had that, you know, that example multiple times in my life that, you know, Tabor does martial arts and you know, how, you know, one thing I remember back in grade school, Tabor does martial arts. How does he punch? And, know, at one point in my life, it would be, let me show you. And, you know, like, okay, I'll do that. And that would be the aggressor in that situation.
Andrew (13:49.125)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (13:54.754)
But as I'm 40 now, my first reaction is you do martial arts and then there's a challenge. I bet I can beat you up. My response is not likely. Not likely that that's gonna happen.
And then see where it lies because I find that this is more internal martial arts than external is that when somebody is being the aggressor towards me, they're very, very emotional. And when they get emotional, it almost becomes comical to me in a way that when they, yeah, when they do that, go, okay. And then I'm concentrating on my breathing as they're trying to move around me. And I'm just at everything else is slow.
Andrew (14:25.628)
Mmm.
Andrew (14:31.6)
interesting
Andrew (14:40.678)
Interesting. I, I, that's interesting. I handle it the exact opposite way. If someone comes up to me and tells me they can, they can beat me up. usually say, you know what? You're probably right. Yep. You probably could. So it's interesting. Totally different. Mark, how about yourself?
Nick (14:46.498)
Yeah.
Nick (14:52.502)
Yeah.
Mark (14:57.416)
Well, in my town, I think I was very fortunate because I have a big window in front of my school and I think everybody kind of knows me here. So a lot of guys in town really don't underestimate me. A lot of the guys in town aren't quite sure what I do, but they don't bother me at all. mean, it just does not happen. I walk down the street, it does not happen. In fact, I'm right next to a...
Nick (15:05.496)
Did you do?
Mark (15:25.954)
alcoholic establishment. if they come in, they come in, look around, they go shake their hands, they sit down, fall asleep in a chair, then they wake up and leave. So, and, and for myself, if I, if I go somewhere, like if I go to Boston, I'm sure it's happening to you guys. If you go somewhere where you're not known and people don't know you, the confidence you have from martial arts exudes from the body. So you walk, you walk down the street and not many people underestimate you.
Nick (15:50.914)
Yes.
Mark (15:55.92)
If nobody, they all respect you. In fact, one time I had to go to Boston for, I had to go to a court for a reason. I went to the wrong courthouse. I was supposed to go to like civil court or something. And I went to the other one. There was some interesting people there. I walked in and said, where am I? They're like, oh, you're in the wrong place. I said, thank you. And went to the other place. No problem at all because you don't get that.
Andrew (16:13.168)
Hmm. Hmm.
Mark (16:23.48)
when you exude the confidence the martial arts gives you. Nobody, nobody that, the people that do not know you will not underestimate you. They'll like, head's up, his chin's up, his eyes are all, especially my eyes, all of that.
Andrew (16:36.016)
Yeah. Yeah. And I, and we've talked about that on the show, Jeremy and I in the past about, not about Mark's eyes going all over the place, but, about how just training gives you confidence, right? And that exudes when you're going, when you're out and about, but you know, again, I would say that in an altercation, I still want people to underestimate me.
Mark (16:46.064)
No.
Nick (16:51.904)
Right.
Andrew (17:07.248)
I don't know where I wanna go with that, but for those that do wanna get into a physical altercation, I don't want them to necessarily think that I can do all of this stuff. I want them to think I don't know what I'm doing.
Mark (17:19.524)
Yep. Yep. Don't know anything. You're just a bald guy walking in the street.
Nick (17:23.852)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it... Just the bald guy. This looks very different if you're watching on YouTube. But... Yeah. No, but I think... I think when people do underestimate me, it's a matter of just... It allows me to channel in on where they are emotionally.
Mark (17:34.136)
Yeah, this would suit. But that, really...
Andrew (17:34.479)
That's true.
Nick (17:51.574)
And there I can, I can leverage the fight there. You know, if it, it, it, it, it doesn't happen too, too often in reality, because if I presented as a martial artist, 99 % of the time lately I'm the teacher. But there are some times where it does come, you know, it does, somebody does come up to me and I'm six two when I'm a pretty well built dude, you know, but if they do come up to me and see something or sees that they're like,
Mark (17:54.904)
Exactly.
Andrew (18:05.488)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (18:22.674)
Okay, now what are we doing? Yeah, and marks, right? I do we do kind of exude and Andrew said as well We do exude it because we train You know, do we train and we try but I think you know at some point where if 99 I don't know the exact statistic, but I mean most of a fight at least over 50 % I think you guys would agree is mental more than physical, right?
Mark (18:29.636)
Thank you.
Mark (18:47.344)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Andrew (18:49.596)
Yeah, majority sure.
Nick (18:53.058)
Yeah.
Mark (18:53.828)
I think if somebody on the street overestimate you, it's going to be one or two reasons. It's either to be alcohol or ego and the ego stems goes everywhere. And if they have that type of ego, you got to mate because our ego is like.
Nick (19:03.127)
Exactly.
Mark (19:13.648)
Well, they're going to, they're going to underestimate you. They're going to think you're a bald guy who can easily be picked on. You're going to look him in the eye and they're going to probably get him back off to begin with. And if you were going to be hands in, Oh, please don't bother. It's going to be over for him.
Andrew (19:23.718)
Yeah.
Andrew (19:28.816)
Yeah, so we want the other people to underestimate us, but we don't want to underestimate ourselves. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the crux of what we're getting at today is that, you know, I want people to underestimate me, but I don't want to underestimate myself. I think that's an important distinction.
Mark (19:33.267)
Right.
Nick (19:33.686)
Yes.
Mark (19:36.27)
Yes.
Nick (19:36.814)
Right.
Mark (19:50.467)
Yes.
Nick (19:51.073)
Right.
Andrew (19:54.5)
Yeah. What else do we have? Is there anything else? Mark, you mentioned you had something else I thought you said.
Mark (20:00.34)
Yes. Did you want to go into the aspect of other martial artists who underestimate us as martial arts? Or would you rather leave that for another?
Andrew (20:10.33)
No, I mean we can.
Mark (20:12.452)
Because it ends up being much to their chagrin, much of their, actually much of their downfall. I've known quite a few people who have underestimated me and sort of brushed me off. Well, I know in two instances, I would or could have been running a school with their name on it, which isn't happening because they underestimated me, made it myself.
Nick (20:12.494)
Hmm
Nick (20:18.871)
Right.
Mark (20:41.552)
I do have scoliosis and I walk kind of funny, but if you see my students, you see what I'm about. I think a teacher, you see the teacher from the students. A friend told me once, a farmer said, my crops, are they good? I don't know, go look at my crops. That'll tell you if I'm a good farmer. That's way you know if you're a good martial artist.
Andrew (20:57.068)
for sure.
Nick (20:57.687)
this.
Mark (21:11.172)
So when people look at you, you, you, and you say, well, I don't know, you got something, you got something, you got something. They don't, they're not looking past it.
Andrew (21:22.747)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mark (21:24.162)
And you should always look past it to find out what's on the inside, see how they are. I think I'll leave that one there.
Nick (21:27.607)
Well...
Andrew (21:30.214)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and you know, and I think it's interesting too that we as martial, and I'm talking we as in Mark, and myself, like I can't speak for every martial artist in the world, but you know, we work and strive hard to make sure that we don't have an ego that we take everyone at their, you know, at face value and, you know, are happy working with other martial artists and other schools and other styles and things like that.
Nick (21:32.715)
And I...
Andrew (21:59.708)
And I think it's unfortunate when you get other martial artists who don't feel the same way. And they, Mark, as you said, they may underestimate those other schools or those other people, but who are they ultimately hurting?
Mark (22:16.237)
Yes, very much so.
Nick (22:17.278)
Right, right. So can I jump in on one other point? Because there's a similar to that. I want to bounce off it. We have the digital world now. So going from where when I grew up, it was you flip the flip in the phone book, look for karate dojo's and, you know, try to find it. And now going for, you know, word of mouth, go into that and then.
Andrew (22:17.488)
themselves. Yeah. Nick, what were you gonna, you were gonna jump in there.
Andrew (22:38.716)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (22:44.226)
You know, finding somebody's reels on YouTube or on there on tick tock, you know, and I produced a few of a demo that I did actually at Mark school. And, know, then got a ton of comments and using, you know, phrases I don't want to use here. and, know, my urge was at first, okay, I'm going to fire a response to every single one of these people. But then I realized.
These are the keyboard warriors. You know, these are the no, no, but these are the people. then you can also look and see when they comment. So they look at 10 seconds into it and then they make an assumption, you know, and then they do things and you know, all this other stuff that happens when you make an assumption as well. I'll leave it. I'll leave that part of that. But I think realizing when you do something nowadays,
Andrew (23:15.61)
It's not gonna change, you're not gonna change anybody's opinions.
Andrew (23:29.222)
Yeah.
Nick (23:42.664)
We want to advertise, we want to grow our school. want to put something out there and then we're going to get flack back right away. Then, you know, and do that. But like, got something locally where I was teaching and then said, it's wrong for you to charge for self-defense classes because people need it. And it's well, I need to eat as much as you do. And it got into a back and forth. realized they're giving an opinion.
Andrew (23:50.428)
Yep. Yep.
Nick (24:11.138)
that doesn't matter. And, you know, we could underestimate ourselves because of an opinion that we get on a Facebook comment or whatever else, and then it could devalue it. But when you realize that, it still keeps our inner martial artist strong.
Mark (24:13.049)
Yeah.
Mark (24:26.446)
Yes. Yep.
Nick (24:28.898)
Yeah, and I'll leave it at that because I wanted to put that point up.
Andrew (24:32.144)
Yeah, no, that's Go ahead,
Mark (24:32.368)
You know what helps me with all those comments, especially on TikTok? Delete. did delete. That's delete. Makes me feel very calm, very collected. If you do get a chance sometime, go to that page and see what they're about. Because I got to tell you all these, well, the only one...
Nick (24:43.554)
Yeah. Right.
Nick (24:51.511)
Right.
Mark (24:57.924)
The ones with the negative comments usually don't do martial arts of any type. So let's delete.
Nick (25:01.87)
They do not. No.
Andrew (25:05.38)
Yeah, yeah. All right, audience, what did we miss? Have you been underestimated in your martial art? How did that turn out? Do you underestimate yourself? I know, I can almost guarantee there are martial artists listening that underestimate themselves. Don't do it. Let other people underestimate you. That's okay, but don't underestimate yourself. Any other closing words, guys, before we close out here?
Nick (25:32.546)
think we nailed it, man. Be strong, Yeah.
Mark (25:33.988)
Be strong. Believe in yourself.
Andrew (25:36.636)
That's right. Thank you for joining us. You can reach me at Andrew at whistlekick.com. If you have anything for, for Nick or Mark, you know, shoot it, shoot it to me. If you don't already know how to get in touch with those guys. don't forget to check out whistlekick.com for all the stuff we do. Please consider being a Patreon subscriber. it might not seem like giving the company, the podcast $5 a month will make a difference.
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Episode comes out. So You think we guys you think we can do this ending round robin? Me mark and Nick Ready? Here we go train hard
Nick (27:14.136)
Okay.
Mark (27:17.018)
Smile.
Nick (27:18.454)
and have a great day.
Mark (27:21.176)
Yeah!