Episode 951 - Team Paul Mitchell
In this episode Jeremy sits down and discusses the longest running sport karate team, Team Paul Mitchell, with their Executive Director, Chris Rappold.
Team Paul Mitchell - Episode 951
SUMMARY
Chris Rappold discusses his relationship with Team John Paul Mitchell and the culture of the team. He shares how he got involved with the team and the regional competition scene in New England. Chris emphasizes the importance of the team mentality and the concept of 'we before me' within the team. He also talks about the confusion surrounding the names Paul Mitchell and John Paul Mitchell and how the team remains a part of John Paul Mitchell Systems.
TAKEAWAYS
The team mentality and the concept of 'we before me' are crucial in Team John Paul Mitchell.
The team's success is attributed to the selflessness and dedication of its members.
The team has a strong culture of celebrating team successes and supporting each other.
The team's legacy and impact extend beyond martial arts, with the creation of trading cards and a monopoly game.
The confusion between Paul Mitchell and John Paul Mitchell is clarified, with John Paul Mitchell being the co-founder of the company and the team's sponsor.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and Background
02:47 The Regional Competition Scene in New England
08:03 The Creation of Team John Paul Mitchell
11:36 Becoming a Rival to Trans World Oil
17:24 The Michigan Event and Team Dynamics
20:10 The Importance of Team Mentality: 'We Before Me'
28:59 The Strengths and Contributions of Each Team Member
43:12 Clarifying the Confusion: Paul Mitchell vs. John Paul MitchellAfter listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it.
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Show Transcript
Jeremy (00:01.682)
what's happening everybody. Welcome back. It's another episode of Whistlekick, a martial arts radio. And I am joined again by Chris Rappold. Chris, thanks for coming back.
Chris (00:12.7)
That's my pleasure.
Jeremy (00:15.708)
I think we're running these pretty close together, if I remember correctly. And to the audience, if you don't know the behind the scenes, we record and then episodes don't always air in order, right? There's a lot of things that we're trying to account for. But when you and I talked, and I know that your interview episode's gonna come out first. When you and I talked, we left out such a huge part of your relationship to the martial arts.
that I said, we've gotta bring you back because, not just because of, we're gonna get into some cool stuff, but I felt like we left part of you off the table, so to speak.
Chris (00:57.98)
Okay.
Jeremy (00:58.078)
And so of course I am talking about your relationship with team John Paul Mitchell.
Chris (01:04.818)
Hmm, yeah, that's a certainly an important part of the journey for me. Yeah, absolutely. 30 right now this we're going to be going into our 38th year with the sponsorship 2025. So it's I've been doing Marsha for 38 years.
Jeremy (01:23.754)
And how long have you been involved?
Okay, you've been there. You were there at the beginning. Which is crazy because you're 35, right? I don't know how you pulled that.
Chris (01:29.966)
Yeah, I was picked up at the end of the first year, which was wonderful. And here's what I'll say about that, because I'm not the best martial artist in the world. There are people that can punch stronger and kick
Faster and you know do all of those things. I truly and I don't think it's falsely modest I had the good fortune of being born in New England and the team had its origin above 35 40 minutes from where I live it started out as a regional team And at the time I had the good fortune of competing against
the original members of the team. Some of them, you know, we kind of came up together. Had I been born in Oregon, I'm not sure I would have had that good fortune. So, you know, a lot of it is, you know, does go to right place, right time. And then a lot of work. Yeah.
Jeremy (02:47.34)
And right, right. absolutely. Now I am I'm old enough to to be able to make this statement. And for people who have come up through the competitive side of martial arts more recently or there just happened to be younger, it is easy to forget that 30 to 40 years ago, martial arts competitions were a lot more regionalized and you absolutely had a few hotbeds and New England.
was definitely one of them.
Chris (03:20.998)
Yeah, we, you know,
Jeremy (03:22.804)
And we've had a lot of guests on the show whether or not they've come through the team, the team, right? We're talking about John Paul Mitchell. And to those of you out there, maybe you're not big followers of the competitive side of martial arts. might be scratching your head saying, I think I know that name and I don't think it has anything to do with martial arts. you'd be right. We're going to talk about that.
Chris (03:27.312)
Yeah. Yeah.
Chris (03:41.478)
Hmm.
Jeremy (03:43.702)
but you were about to tack on what I was saying about that regional side.
Chris (03:47.698)
You know, we were, New England was known as region 12. And I think unbiasedly, I think, you know, anybody from that era would say, yeah, region 12 had some amazing people come out of it that went on to national acclaim, certainly. And again, to be able to cut my teeth.
you know, on and, you know, against those people and, you know, be teammate, two team members alongside them to be able to train with them, to be able to be taught by them, you know, extraordinary, extraordinary.
Jeremy (04:29.58)
Now when you say region 12, because this goes back to when I was younger, so I don't quite have the memory, are you talking about specifically AKL, PKL? Or were the regions the same for other circuits? The region break down those numbers.
Chris (04:38.587)
Mm -hmm.
Chris (04:42.864)
I believe it was.
Chris (04:48.274)
This was the national circuit, I want to say it was Karate Illustrated at the time, it separated us into regions. In New England was considered region 12, New York region 11, it might have been New York and New Jersey region 11.
Jeremy (05:06.513)
Now I know AKL PKL also did that and those were the same numbers and the only reason I know that is because I just rehung my plaque the other day.
Chris (05:11.89)
Okay. And I knew it at one time, but I mean, it's been, you know, 30 years since I looked at what the regions were. That'd actually be fun for me to look back. yeah. You know. But, yeah.
Jeremy (05:30.14)
Okay, so I wanna talk about that right place, right time. Tell me that story. You said you got picked up the end of the first year. You were competing against some of the team members. How did this all happen?
Chris (05:43.27)
Yeah.
Sure. I was an up and coming competitor. I got my start with Billy Blanks who at the time was a multi -time world champion, considered one of the best in the world.
Chris (06:04.887)
It was after the Atlantic team started and you know the Atlantic team for the listeners that might not know the Atlantic team I would I would I would say it was the dream team. It was the Michael Jordan. It was the Larry Bird. It was the Magic Johnson. It was the first time that
you know, a national team with the very, very best all got put together. And it was, you know, very much an unbeatable team, much like the dream team was, you know, with Bird, Magic, and, and Michael. So I was competing alongside them and it was Don Rodriguez and
Steve Babcock that had started a regional team called Spiderbrand. I don't know if you remember that name, but Spiderbrand was a a martial arts supply company, a local martial arts supply company, and they put together a regional team. And the gentleman, believe his name was Bernie, was sponsoring this local team to give himself exposure. And
I think as the story goes, they were up in Canada and Spider Brand didn't secure the hotels, didn't have the registrations all taken care of. And the Spider Brand team was up in Canada with no money to be able to compete as it was promised. the team...
Jeremy (07:49.588)
It's not what you want to see out of a company that is supposed to be about money and logistics, you know, providing product.
Chris (07:53.842)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't know the story. Certainly nobody's above having a run of bad luck or whatever. yeah, yeah, yeah. don't have any insight into what it was. I never inquired. So you had this group of Region 12 competitors. And they
Jeremy (08:03.04)
Yep. We all make mistakes.
Chris (08:20.144)
had a team and then they lost their team. So Don Rodriguez and Steve Babcock, both from Rhode Island, got together and they said, you know, what are we gonna do about this team? And, you know, do you know of anybody that might be interested in picking up the sponsorship? So they talked back and forth and Steve Babcock said, you know, when I lived out in California,
I used to rent a place from a guy named John Paul, and he runs a company called Paul Mitchell. Now for the listeners, this is a point of confusion. There's Paul Mitchell, and then there's John Paul DeGioria, and they were co -founders of the company Paul Mitchell. And sometimes,
Chris (09:17.03)
sometimes there's a level of confusion and I'll jump into that in a second. anyways, Steve reached out to the person that he had struck up a relationship with when he was out in California. He started out renting an apartment from him and then started to teach his kids some karate in the garage and all that. And he said, I don't know if he'd be interested. So reached out to John Paul and John Paul said, you know, hey, you know, sounds kind of interesting.
you know, why don't you write me something up and send it out to me and let me take a look at it. So we did and a week or two later, they got their first check of $5 ,000. Now the significance of that $5 ,000 back in, you know, 88, you know, that was big money. We weren't sponsored by an oil team, as in the case of Atlantic or then later Transworld Oil, but
$5 ,000 was still $5 ,000 and it was, my goodness. And we're proud to say the start of the karate team sponsorship launched the entire sports marketing division for Paul Mitchell. So then what came after that, then it's the beach volleyball and it's the sponsor of Olympic athletes. It's the skiing and
you know, everything, everything started with the karate team. And, and that's a source of pride for us because that was a major identity that the company took on for decades. So I was competing, against the, you know, the current Paul Mitchell members at the time. And I truly don't remember this, but Steve Babcock said I, I beat him in a tournament, but I, and
Again, I really truly don't remember it because I would have been a middleweight. He would have been a heavyweight. So it must have been in a grand championship. But and, you know, competing and beating some of the other team members. And then at the end of the first year or the start of. I think the team was started halfway through the year, so that first year went into 89.
Chris (11:36.626)
But around January, February, I won the first two NASCA tournaments of the year, which gave me the number one spot in the country. And that's when I was picked up by the team. And I was 18, 19 years old, yeah.
Jeremy (11:50.604)
How old were you at that time? 18, 19?
Chris (11:57.188)
I was in senior year of high school or first year of college, somewhere there around.
Jeremy (12:05.29)
Yeah, you hadn't, so you hadn't started your school yet, right? We heard about that in your other episode, okay. All right, well.
Chris (12:06.586)
No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, no, not at all. Yeah. And, know, that afforded me the opportunity through college to travel the way that I did because, you know, being a college student, I, you know, came from a middle -class family. were in destitute in any, any sort of way. but did we, was there the extra money to fly all over, you know, the places I was able to do? No. And, you know, I remember in those early days, was,
fun because, well, fun slash sometimes not fun because my team members who were early 20s, they'd be going out on Friday night and Saturday night and, you know, I'd be unpacking my books and, you know, doing my homework. So it's a little different.
Jeremy (12:59.76)
What was it like, you know, cause now anybody who's attended a high level competition and any of the members of JPM showing up, there's an acknowledgement, right? Everybody knows and there's some, I'm gonna call it reverence. There's simultaneously, depending on who the non -team competitor is, there's a...
man, as well as maybe a challenge, like I'm gonna rise to the competition here because here we are in 2024 and there are few people on non -JPM teams that I think people would look at and say, this is genuinely a top tier, top of top competitor, right? The way things flow now is when you reach that standing, this is where you go in the same way, you talked about the dream team.
Chris (13:32.092)
Yeah.
Chris (13:57.085)
Yeah, Sure, sure.
Jeremy (13:59.276)
92 basketball for those of you who are not fans.
Jeremy (14:05.526)
But it wasn't like that at the very beginning, was it? There were other teams, you mentioned a couple of them that were very highly regarded.
Chris (14:08.452)
No, no it wasn't.
Chris (14:13.848)
sure. Yeah, absolutely. And the big one out there, the Paul Mitchell of the day would have been the Trans World Oil team. And, you know, they were the they were the team that just nobody could beat. You know, they had they had Kevin Thompson and Billy Blanks and Steve Anderson and Tony Young and Richard Plowden and Terry Kramer and Anthony Price. I mean, that's
That's a formidable team. know, Anthony Holloway was a part of that team. It's just so many greats.
Jeremy (14:53.352)
all names that have come up on this show a number of times.
Chris (14:54.894)
I'm sure, know, they were that decade before me, you know, so they were my martial art heroes in peers, but still they were further along than we. So eventually what it came down to, know, Paul Mitchell continued to do well, but we were much of a regional team and we ended up doing a challenge match against them in Michigan at the
Palisade Auburn Hills with a Detroit Pistons play. was a televised event. And we ended up, know, the main event that night was the team fight, us versus them. And we ended up beating them, if I recall, 17 to seven. And the next day, Christine Bannon Rodriguez, was a member of the Trans World team and
the wife of Don Rodriguez, our coach, lost her position on Transworld Oil and became a Palmichel team member. that, you know, it, yeah. Well, Chuck Merriman, yeah, no, Chuck, yeah.
Jeremy (16:07.948)
she lost her position?
Was that, that's, that's, yeah. And both Christine and Chuck Merriman have been on the show for the audience. He was the coach, right?
Chris (16:15.778)
Yep, Chuck Merriman, he was the coach and an absolute, always a perfect gentleman to me. He'd done so much for our sport. had been a legendary, traditional martial art figure. But, you know, we became a rival and it just so happened that Christine was on his team.
And his rivals became Paul Mitchell, which was run by Christine's husband. So, you I think it was just a, a sensible parting of the ways that we can't have that. And, you know, and that's kind of the way it went. And that, created the, that started the creation of the rival. And then many of those people that I named ended up finding their way after Transworld dissolved onto
Paul Mitchell because we kind of took their spot and we had the good fortune of a sponsor for some, you know, all of these years. Please.
Jeremy (17:24.46)
I want to go back to that Michigan event because you're describing one team as big, dominant, and you're describing your team as not that. So going into it, this outcome of 17 to seven, was that the opposite of what people were expecting? Were you very clearly the underdogs here?
Chris (17:43.096)
yeah, that was a, clearly. You know, first of all, it's in Michigan where, you know, my dear former teammate, Richard Plowden lives. Now I can't point to any bias and I don't mean to imply that, but you know, it would, you know, if Richard fought us in New England, you know, there may very well be a little, you know, bias because they're always used to seeing us compete. But yeah, no, that was a...
Jeremy (17:50.079)
Okay.
Chris (18:12.462)
Nobody, nobody anticipated that we would end up beating the team. But if you look at the people that we had out there, you know, they all went on, you know, everybody on the Paul Mitchell side, they all went on to, you know, be phenomenal in their own right. So it was just, it was, it was Steve Babcock, who was our co -founder and he was, you know, a national champion. had fought.
Jeremy (18:33.526)
Who are some of the folks, who are some of those names you were there with?
Chris (18:43.088)
He had beat in his later years, had beat Richard Plout and Terry Kramer, Anthony Price and you know, whoever else he had a number one spot in the country. There was John Payton, who became a national champion and one of the best fighters in the world with a light heavyweight. Yeah. We've had Alberto Montron, Alberto Montron.
Jeremy (18:58.828)
Mm
Jeremy (19:05.718)
John's come on the show. That was a great episode.
Chris (19:11.992)
won some of the biggest tournaments in the country, a very unorthodox fighter from Joe Pena's school, Joe Pena Boston Taekwondo, and has turned out some amazing champions over the years. You had myself and then you had Pedro Xavier who most people would choose Pedro if not the number one, you know, probably top three of all time. So if you look at
If you look at all of the people on our side, though we were a young team and young in our career per se compared to that, you know, that generation, you know, they had five to 10 years on us. We all went on to become top in the world in our respective divisions. Yeah. So it was, yeah, it just matched up well.
Jeremy (20:10.444)
You're using some language here that I want to point to because it's something I've observed and I'm sure you're very aware of it. You are constantly referring to this team as a we. And, you know, let's not forget martial arts, sparring, point fighting, whatever we choose to call it, martial arts competition. The majority of events, you these are individual events and a lot of people look at their participation in a team as
Chris (20:19.815)
Mm
Jeremy (20:39.328)
They are members of a team. have an individual relationship with their team. But I've never heard that, that I recall. I've never heard that approach, that language from anyone on Team Paul Mitchell. It is always we, and I find that fascinating. Can you speak to that?
Chris (20:53.308)
Yeah. Yeah, I will. So we have one of our sayings. have a few sayings. And one of the sayings that is held dear to the culture of Paul Mitchell is we before me, we before me. And sometimes you'll see hashtags, we before me. And as the executive director of the team, that is a cultural...
Chris (21:20.818)
standard that I constantly talk about in all of the Paul Mitchell meetings, you know, that I have the opportunity to run because it's what, you know, you don't get 38 years without a culture of we before me.
You know, you're flattering and statistically certainly you're correct that, you know, Paul Mitchell is the pinnacle that we've just, we've been doing it longer and there's just on sheer years, there's nobody that could touch the records, the world championships, the grand championships, et cetera, just because of the expanse of time.
But we are not a team of superstars. There are, there are superstars on our team, but there's a level of selflessness you have to have to be on our team. And if you don't have that, if you want to be, you know, an individual, you're going to probably lose your spot on the team or you're going to quit the team because
It's because of the way that we run it. Some people, really, really talented people, but they're born with a mirror in front of them in their language. If you listen to them speak, not that they're better or worse than me or you, but you will hear, I, I, I, I did this, I did that, I did this, I did that, I innovated that, I, I, I.
Jeremy (22:41.238)
Hmm.
Chris (23:10.87)
And that, you know, to our culture, that's like nails down a chalkboard. We have, you know, currently we have three forms competitors on our team. And I'll just, I'll point to this to explain. We have Ben Jones, we have Esteban Trembley, and we have Dawson Holt. And they compete against each other.
And the only thing that they care about is that we take first, second, and third. I have watched their facial expression close. And you're talking a thousand or $2 ,000 win for winning that grand championship. They are equally happy for each other, you know, and
And they work hard and they push each other like if if one of them decides not to train the other one is gonna beat it You know is gonna beat them at the next tournament they ride You know see the best part of competition Is the the pushing towards your potential that you need because when somebody
And again, that's not my forte, but when somebody jumps up in the air and does a, you know, a 1080 or whatever they do, I don't even know the names of it. It makes you number one, realize it's possible. And it gives you that impetus to say, okay, I got to figure out how to do that. And then what's the next thing off of that. So I think the competition at its best is a driver that unlocks your potential.
Yeah, and if you want to be on the team, we celebrate our team successes. And that's it. And we're proud of our team members and let them humbly accept their win or their number one spot or whatever. But that's it. Yeah.
Jeremy (24:59.21)
Hmm, completely agree.
Jeremy (25:27.513)
Is this something that can be taught and cultured and coached? Or do they have to come in with this attitude?
Chris (25:32.334)
Well, we have the good fortune of watching competitors for a long period of time before they come on to our team. So I would never put anybody on the team unless I've seen them win and unless I've seen them lose and unless I've heard how they handle both of those and seen it for myself and talked to them and understand their background and how they tick and...
There's a vetting process we have for people on our executive team that that X -ray people up and down. And it's a given that they're going to be the top in the world. So that's, that's the given. But the second part of it, which is not a, it's not a resume. It's, know, getting to know the person, getting to know their instructor.
you know, talking to people. When I was first on the team, and I'm talking this was first or second tournament, it might've been the first fly tournament, our team went to an event and we're waiting out at baggage claim and the promoter had sent a limousine for our coach, Don Rodriguez.
So the limousine pulls up and the whole team is waiting there and the limousine pulls up and it's a limousine for Don Rodriguez. And Don said, I have my team here. Well, we're only allowed to take you. And Don, especially in the early days, had a temper and could get heated, but he was actually offended.
Like, how dare you send a limousine or transportation for me and not for my team? Thank you, but no thank you. And that's the start of teaching the we before the me. So can you teach it? Yeah, but it has to start with the example that you set. And that's one of many, many examples I could tell you of small things that are done.
Chris (27:51.994)
Steve Babcock, the co -founder of our team, he put, this is before I was executive director, this is years ago when I was competing, he put Anthony Price, Terry Kramer, and Richard Plowden on the team. Well, those were his greatest rivals. He put them on the team because we wanted to have the best team in the world.
and they were top in the world. Kevin Thompson was not on our team.
Pedro Xavier was asked, should we put Kevin on our team? Now Kevin and Pedro were the height of their rival and Pedro didn't hesitate. Of course, of course put him on the team. Are you kidding me? It wasn't, there wasn't even a flicker of, well, you know, how is that gonna, you know, what's that gonna do to my win record? Or wait a minute, this is my rival. Like it's, are you kidding me?
Jeremy (28:41.496)
Big rivals.
Chris (28:59.139)
So, you know, there's three examples, one from a coach and two from pillars of our team. And that creates the lore that creates the stories. And those stories are continually told and reinforced, you know, by myself and the executive team. So that as new people come on the team, they understand, you know, the expectations. And again,
If you want to be a superstar and if you want to talk I, I, I, I, or you want to be, you want to get on Paul Mitchell as a resting place and just, you know, trying to cocoon yourself around the fact that you have Paul Mitchell on your back, you're not going to like it very much because what people don't realize is as soon as you put that on your back, you might as well be walking around the both sides.
Because now people are training to beat you. People are doing film study on every single move you do and they're breaking everything down and they're, you know, there's psychological games that are played and, and sometimes you're being put on in front of somebody else that wanted to get on the team. So now there's that, you know, so in a lot of times people don't.
Jeremy (30:01.693)
Mm.
Chris (30:28.668)
think through those things and the decision that you're really ready to handle that level of pressure to be able to rise up and live with that day in and day out.
Jeremy (30:54.172)
It's my suspicion, you know, and I think you've pretty much already confirmed this but I want to lay this out there because I want I want the folks out there to recognize that you know, we often talk about the white belt mindset, right? Shoshin this idea that you can continually learn and The culture as I understand it here so wonderfully exemplifies that this idea that
you know, would you rather be the big fish in the small pond or would you rather be in the bigger pond? Would you rather have all the other big fish around you because you're going to help each other get better and you're going to reach, you know, bigger heights. What's more important? Is it the trophy at the end of the day or is it becoming the best that you can be? And that is an approach that you can bring into everything, whether it's martial arts or not, whether it's your martial arts school or a competitive team. And I'm not going to name the name. You'll probably know who I'm talking about.
Because I've not been given permission to share any of this publicly but somebody that I know somebody in my circles Spent some time as a high -level competitor and was from what they've described Frequently invited to Rhode Island to train with the team as someone who was very good in
Jeremy (32:11.761)
What I heard coming out of those stories was the real world practice of everybody is pushing each other. They are sparring together. They are riding that line of challenge, push and wanting to win and wanting to do your best and make your partner better. And just barely not crossing that line of.
hitting too hard, being a bad teammate, et cetera, like really dialed in on that one.
Chris (32:37.626)
Yeah, and also too, I would be lying if I told you that that's an easy line to maintain. I'd be lying to you. There was one time, know, Alberto Montron and I, and it's a funny story. We were competing and
Jeremy (32:53.932)
think that takes a tremendous personality.
Chris (33:04.496)
The match didn't matter because we were both going to make the United States team. So I understood, just go out and you guys just go out and fight. It doesn't matter who wins, just go out and fight. Alberto understood it as, you know, just go out and play. doesn't matter. So I went out and fought him and I.
beat him significantly. And Alberto and I, always traded matches back and forth. Maybe I'd beat him, you know, I don't know who, doesn't really matter. Well anyways, on that match I beat him 11 to 2. And it was a source at the time of, Chris, what did you do? What are you doing? And I came off the stage like, what? We were just
said, gloat and fight. And, you know, apparently there was a mixed message. So anyways, he was understandably upset. And I was, yeah, and I was what? You know, so anyways, you know, so there was this heat and this tension. And I remember, and this truly happened, John Rodriguez.
Jeremy (34:15.436)
That's embarrassing to lose 11 to 2.
Chris (34:28.006)
grabbed both of us and put us in a hotel room and said, I don't care what you do to each other. Don't come out of the hotel room until it's resolved. If you guys want to beat each other up, if you want to talk it out, like, I'm going to wait outside of this door and you guys don't come out until it's done. And, and we did. And
Again, that's a life lesson. I don't really remember. But the point is, Alberto and I, there is nobody I have more respect for. He's a brother. We traveled after that happened. We traveled all over the world together. We fought side by side each other.
Jeremy (35:03.712)
How did you resolve it?
Chris (35:23.346)
You know, he's an ambassador right now for the United States and, you know, has a very high political position. I haven't seen him in, I don't know, seven to 10 years and we'll hit each other up on Facebook from time to time. He is a lifelong friend that if he needed something at four in the morning, I'd be there for him. You know, but you have those kind of struggles and to the best of our ability.
Jeremy (35:50.156)
Mm.
Chris (35:52.838)
We try to, if there is those tensions that happen, you isolate it and you work it out and you find your way through. And that just, that has to be done. Yeah.
Chris (36:13.522)
you know, the times change and my coach who's been the only coach I've ever had, Don Rodriguez, because I got picked up on the team when I was 18 or 19, you know, times change and there was a vice president of global sports marketing from Paul Mitchell, kind of recognized.
Jeremy (36:16.566)
How did you become executive director?
Chris (36:43.066)
that for our team to realize its potential, we need more depth of information and insight. And the job was getting bigger with the team's successes and stuff. Then it was bigger than what she felt that both Dawn and Steve could do themselves.
And she wanted to amplify the power of the team. Now, she had the foresight on that, that we all did. And I don't even think Don and Steve at the time did. But those two single -handedly ran the team for, you know, 20 plus years, 25 years. doing what I do now, it's like, I don't even know how the heck they did it. So she put these people together and said, you know, hey,
work as a team and figure this out, you're now all equal, equal say in the team. And for the first year or so it was, we had, even though we all knew each other, we weren't quite sure how to work with each other and highlight each other's strengths. So I came to her about a year later and asked her, said, you know, could I have your permission to take a
lead on this and let me see if I can create a level of structure. And that structure never would have happened if it wasn't for the faith, the trust, the friendship of Don Rodriguez and Steve Babcock enabling me to hold that position. And that was 2011 -2012 and I've had that position since then and
Jeremy (38:30.316)
Hmm.
Chris (38:41.042)
It's just been a wonderful experience because each of us on the team, bring something, we bring something different to it. You know, yeah. And, and, you know, here, here's again, we before me and strengths is, you know, there's nobody that knows stats like Don Rodriguez. I mean, if you ask him about a match 15 years ago, it
Jeremy (38:57.472)
That's what a team should be.
Chris (39:10.064)
this gymnasium, he'll tell you the score and what the last point was that won. He's the one that could tell you. And he is the one I really have to give credit to because all I've known is Paul Mitchell. So I have limited viewpoint. I don't have an outside viewpoint on who we are. I just, I've been involved in it. But he's the one I really have to give
credit to for continuing to remind us guys, do you know what we're doing here? Do you know, you know, we're the first team that had trading cards. We've had a monopoly game made about us. We, we, you know, and he'll list, you know, the amount of grand champions and the amount of world champions and the, you know, and it's, you know, him beating us over the head with that in his own way for years got us to believe, you know,
It's even something bigger and more special. He got us to believe in. This is about JP's legacy, you know, because what do you buy a, you know, person who's seven billion or whatever he's worth, you know, what do you, what am I going to do? him a tie? But when you're talking about being the person or one of the people responsible for his contribution and legacy to sport karate, well now
There's a different level of behavior that goes with that. Steve Babcock, he brings a perspective that I don't have doing it for so many years. Our fighting coach, Damon Gilbert, has been there and done that. has beaten everybody on the planet during his day, always considered probably one of the best fighters ever.
His fighting IQ is extraordinary. His ability to be able to break down people. And then not on our executive team, but our forms coach is Jackson Rudolph. And, you know, Jackson, his, you know, he's seen it, done it, you know, understands it, and his social media expertise.
Chris (41:33.894)
you know, because of his age, dwarfs all of ours, you know, my coach still uses a yellow legal pad, you know, that's his computer. He still has a flip phone, believe it or not. So we needed, you know, we needed somebody with that level of expertise, you know, so, and none of us are perfect, particularly Don and Steve, they've seen me at my worst.
Jeremy (41:40.832)
Mm
Chris (42:04.342)
They've seen me at my best and I've seen them at their worst and their best. And we love each other. recognize.
our faults and we recognize the faults in each other and we're all super respectful of that. We all recognize what our limitations are. I recognize as the executive director the way I bring a message to Coach Damon is different to how I talk to Coach Steve or, you know, Coach Don Rodriguez. It's everybody is an individual.
and everybody has to, you you have to be able to meet them where they're at. And like any human being walking the earth, we all have a level of ego. We all want to feel important to the contribution that we each uniquely make. So from the executive team down through the players,
down through the history of the team, stemming from those ideals that we had to bring to life in sport karate, which were a reflection of Paul Mitchell corporate. We're not perfect, but we do the best we can. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Jeremy (43:44.246)
is? Who is? I know we're running up against time here, and I'm so glad that we've been able to talk about this, but you promised us one thing, and I just want to make sure we go there before we close up, and that was confusion around the name.
Chris (43:48.668)
Sure.
Chris (43:57.466)
Yeah, yeah, at the end, for sure, at the end of the first year, we got message that Paul Mitchell had passed away. And my God, you know, first of all, what a heartbreak. And second of all, you know, a distant second for sure, but we don't have a team anymore. The team member, Steve Babcock, knew, you know, we didn't know there's there's two people. So
Jeremy (44:00.138)
the idea of, you know, it's Sean Paul, it's Paul Mitchell, John Paul Mitchell, JPM, right? So can you clear that up for us?
Chris (44:27.506)
Paul Mitchell, who the company is named after, died of pancreatic cancer in 1989. John Paul DeGioria, who most people would recognize as the face of Paul Mitchell, he's the gentleman with the ponytail and kind of that iconic look. He was the one that rented the space from Steve Babcock or, you know,
rented Steve Babcock the space and he had the relationship there. John Paul was now chairman emeritus at Paul Mitchell and now his daughter, Michaelene runs the company. But I think out of a source of respect and pride for the team and her father's wishes, you know, we remain in
And the company has changed. They do not sponsor sports anymore. They don't have a sports marketing division anymore. Everything has been reallocated with the advent of social media doing what it does. And companies always have to reposition themselves. But we were the first and we remain. And like I said, we've gone into our 38th year.
You know, it's exciting. I should also note that though I was on the team at the end of year one, I'm one of those unique people. took 12 years off in between. retired after I won the world championship and put my total focus into personal best and then had a midlife crisis and said, you know what? I want to come back and try to, you know, do it again. So it was 12 years.
that I was absent from the team. So, you know, again, I go back to our founder and our, you know, our two co -founders. I mean, they deserve the lion's share of the respect. They've truly been there from day one all the way through. And I think if I do a good job, I think it's the inspiration that they give and, you know, the other coaches give.
Chris (46:56.05)
Hahaha.
Jeremy (46:58.272)
Well, I'm glad that I got to put some more pieces into the puzzle for my understanding of a team that I grew up on the competitive circuit watching and looking up to and realizing, you know, I was a good competitor. I was never going to be a Paul Mitchell competitor. And I knew that, but that didn't change my admiration. And it doesn't change my admiration today for the folks that, you know, we get to talk to and.
Chris (47:01.509)
Yeah.
Chris (47:07.698)
Sure.
Jeremy (47:27.158)
those of you in the audience who have been around a while, you know we've had, I think we've had well over a dozen past and present competitors on the team. And it's just, it's great to see anything that increases the exposure of martial arts is something I can get behind. And this is another example of that.
Chris (47:39.696)
Yeah, and you know, if somebody asked me. You know what was your, you know, what was your biggest win or what was your? You know, greatest victory. You know, I would, I would say the number one thing I would have to say is being part of team Paul Mitchell. You know, I can point to memories. But for most of us that have. Been part of the team, if somebody pinned them down.
The greatest accomplishment was being a part of this fraternity of some of the most amazing martial artists of the past almost 40 years. And what a complete privilege and honor it is.