Episode 932- Grandmaster Rudy Duncan
In today's episode Jeremy sits down and chats with Grandmaster Rudy Duncan about his journey, his thoughts on training, finding your own teaching style, and making it fun! Grandmaster Rudy Duncan - Episode 932
SUMMARY
In this episode of Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, Jeremy interviews Grandmaster Rudy Duncan. They discuss his martial arts journey, starting with his introduction to karate as a young boy and his transition to studying Goju and Kempo. Grandmaster Duncan emphasizes the importance of embracing different martial arts styles and cross-training to continue personal growth. They also touch on the significance of katas, the value of questioning and discussing techniques, and the evolving landscape of martial arts. In this conversation, Grandmaster Rudy Duncan shares his insights and experiences in martial arts. He discusses the evolution of martial arts training, emphasizing the importance of personal development and adapting to the changing times. He also talks about the importance of individuality in teaching and encourages instructors to find their own teaching style. He highlights the significance of building relationships with students and creating a positive learning environment. He also discusses the benefits of internal martial arts and the impact it has on external techniques. Overall, Rudy's approach to martial arts is focused on fun, learning, and personal growth.
TAKEAWAYS
* Embrace different martial arts styles and cross-train to continue personal growth.
* Katas teach movement, proper stances, and spatial distancing, but they are not fighting.
* Question and discuss techniques to deepen understanding and encourage growth.
* The internet has provided a platform for sharing ideas and refining martial arts skills.
* Traditional martial arts are evolving, and it is important to adapt and improve. Martial arts training has evolved, and it is important to adapt to the changing times and prioritize personal development.
* Instructors should find their own teaching style and not try to copy their instructors. Individuality is key.
* Building relationships with students and creating a positive learning environment is crucial for success in martial arts.
* Internal martial arts can enhance external techniques and improve overall health and well-being.
* Fun and learning should be the focus of martial arts training.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and Overview
02:30 Grandmaster Duncan's Martial Arts Journey
08:36 Transition to Kempo
14:07 The Influence of Fred Valari
25:03 The Value of Katas and Techniques
28:45 Questioning and Discussing Techniques
33:59 The Impact of the Internet on Martial Arts
34:57 Adapting and Improving Traditional Martial Arts
35:31 Adapting to the Changing Times in Martial Arts
36:31 The Importance of Individuality in Teaching
37:48 Building Relationships and Creating a Positive Learning Environment
39:05 The Benefits of Internal Martial Arts
46:40 Fun and Learning in Martial Arts
Show Notes
Connect with Grandmaster Duncan at:
www.duncansmartialarts.com
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Show Transcript
Jeremy (00:00.176)
Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome. It's another episode of Whistlekick, martial arts radio. And on today's show, I'm joined by Grandmaster Rudy Duncan. This one's a little while in the making and I'm glad that we're making it happen. For those of you out there, if you're new, if you've never checked out what we do, please check out whistlekick .com because we do a lot of different things and we do them all in support of you, the traditional martial artists of the world. So whether it's this show or the events that we do or the products and services.
training programs that we make, please go check them out. And of course, whistlekickmarshallartsradio .com is the place to go for everything related to the show. All 900 and whatever episodes we've done are available there to you. So Rudy, thanks for being here. As I was getting ready, I had this voice in my head saying, maybe we need to give him like a professional wrestling style interview. And you're like, Rudy, right? You know, something.
Something like that, I thought that would be fun, but that's not really my style personally, so I have it.
Rudy Duncan (01:03.437)
No, the introduction was good.
Jeremy (01:04.816)
Well, thank you. How are you? How's it going?
Rudy Duncan (01:08.333)
I'm good, I'm good. It's today's my birthday, I want you to know. Yeah. Yeah, thank you. Absolutely. We've been trying for years to have this happen. I'm glad.
Jeremy (01:12.144)
Is it really? Happy birthday. And you're spending some of it with me. I am flattered. I'm honored. I mean, what would have... We have talked about this for a little while. Yeah. But as I've said to many people many times, you know, sometimes the timing isn't up to us, right? Sometimes that timing comes from other places, other people, and the episodes that get...
I don't want to say delayed, but they don't happen, you know, when we first start talking about them, somehow they still end up being great episodes and maybe they're better because we waited.
Rudy Dumcan (01:51.885)
Absolutely. Life gets in the way sometimes.
Jeremy (01:52.624)
I don't know. Yeah, yeah. And you're speaking of life. I don't want to say getting in the way because that suggests maybe it's things you don't want to do. But I know you're a very busy man. But everything that I hear you talk about, you have this huge smile on your face.
Rudy Dumcan (02:10.369)
yeah, yeah, well, I'm a very positive person and I think that the martial arts has been just a great journey for me. I've met people for the past 60 years all over the world. So for me, it's having an extended family, which I love.
Jeremy (02:30.832)
Yeah. How'd you get started?
Rudy Dumcan (02:34.349)
Well, it's interesting. I started 1961 as a young kid.
Jeremy (02:40.272)
which seems crazy because you're 30. I don't know how that math works, but all right.
Rudy Dumcan (02:42.221)
Yeah, a couple thirties. Yes, yes. I actually didn't know anything about karate. I was visiting a relative next to a church and I saw a couple people in what I thought were white pajamas in the backyard doing crazy things. So I said to my uncle, what are those guys doing in the pajamas? And he said, they're doing karate. I didn't know what karate was.
And then he explained that that's what it was. They were doing martial arts. So I jumped over the fence and started copying what the guys were doing. Well, the guy was a professor from Korea studying at Syracuse University, and he had a small class of about seven people. And he didn't speak much English, but he yelled at me all the time when I jumped over the fence and was copying the guys.
Well, eight years later, I got my black belt with him and that was my first introduction into martial arts.
Jeremy (03:47.024)
You know, and that is probably the best short and still accurate description of martial arts. People jumping around doing crazy things in pajamas. It's fairly accurate. You might not wear the pajamas, but you're still jumping around and doing crazy things regardless of what style you're training. I like that.
Rudy Dumcan (03:57.101)
yeah, yeah.
Rudy Dumcan (04:04.941)
Well, I always tell my students, martial arts should look like a bad accident or silk.
Depending on how you perform.
Jeremy (04:16.464)
I think much more of what I do looks like a bad accident, but you know, I guess if it gets the job done, right?
Rudy Dumcan (04:18.285)
Thank you.
Rudy Dumcan (04:23.597)
Absolutely.
Jeremy (04:25.52)
How old were you when you jumped over the fence the first time?
Rudy Dumcan (04:28.429)
I was in seventh grade, I was 13. And I've been doing it since that time, yeah.
Jeremy (04:31.98)
Okay, so 13.
And you know, you're training, were you, cause you said the gentleman was from Korea, but you were training karate, which, which might hit some people's brains funny because I think some people assume, well, if you're from Korea, you have to do Taekwondo, right?
Rudy Dumcan (04:43.981)
Yeah, each...
Rudy Dumcan (04:50.221)
Yeah, well, it was a solid taekwondo back then. I did that till I was 18. And then I started in Okinawa and Goju. And both my instructors were Marines who had studied and lived in Okinawa for years. And so they learned from...
Jeremy (04:53.776)
Okay.
Rudy Dumcan (05:18.541)
two or three of the schools in Okinawa. One was the Mabokan school, Miyagi school, and the other one was a Shobokan school.
Jeremy (05:28.496)
And that is such a common story. I think such, I don't know if how many people alive in training today realize how many of us that train are one to two generations from a Marine that was stationed in Okinawa. Huge numbers.
Rudy Dumcan (05:44.493)
Absolutely. Well, people have to remember until the late 60s, we had boxing. We didn't have martial arts. Martial arts didn't get to us until the late 60s or so. Everybody did boxing in different places around the world. But martial arts? Yeah, Judo and even in Kido, you saw that in Japan and stuff. But...
Jeremy (06:04.432)
We had some judo if you knew where to look.
Rudy Dumcan (06:12.621)
until the late 60s, especially on the East Coast. When I started in Goju, that was the only the first school opened up in Syracuse. And that was like 1960 something. I didn't start.
Jeremy (06:30.16)
And that's still pretty early. Syracuse is not a huge city, but it's a good size, especially if you get north of that latitude, to those of you who don't know your Northeast geography. It's a good sized town for getting that far north. But to have one school, I mean, how many schools does the Syracuse area have now?
Rudy Dumcan (06:40.141)
I'm going to go to bed.
Rudy Dumcan (06:50.637)
we probably had 60 schools.
Jeremy (06:53.2)
Yeah, it's changed so much in here. You were fortunate enough to be right next to something that was happening that sparked your interest at that moment.
Rudy Dumcan (07:04.141)
Yeah, and so, you know, both my instructors were Marines and the kids class, they didn't have a kids class. They only had adults because they didn't want to teach kids. So, yeah, so, and it's probably good they didn't teach kids because it was brutal training. You know, we trained like we were into the military. We trained seven days a week.
Jeremy (07:20.944)
Very few people were teaching kids back then.
Rudy Dumcan (07:33.453)
Four to five hours of class. Yeah.
Jeremy (07:35.376)
Really, that's a commitment, that's a job.
Rudy Dumcan (07:39.053)
It was, it was. And we didn't know that because that was the only way that we knew to train.
So we didn't know that there was other methods of training at that time.
Jeremy (07:53.264)
Given that it was so much time, what else were you doing with your day? Were you working? Were you going to school?
Rudy Dumcan (07:59.021)
Yeah, I graduated so I started my junior and senior year in Goju and then I graduated and went down to University of Hampton University in Virginia. While I was there I studied judo and then in the summers I would come back and continue to Goju with my instructors. So I did that till 1979.
and then I got into the Kimball system. And that was by accident.
Jeremy (08:32.432)
Okay. I was going to ask because one of the things I find interesting is we get people on the show, and I guess it really could only happen one of two ways, but I find both paths interesting. Somebody starts training in a particular style of something and then they can't find that so they find what's the closest thing and they end up in these very similar styles. And then you get people, whether by choice or by circumstance.
Rudy Dumcan (08:36.429)
Yeah.
Jeremy (09:01.616)
they start training in, I don't know, Chinese Goju and then they wake up one day and say, I'm gonna do, I don't know, what's the exact opposite of that.
Maybe Kjokkoshen.
Rudy Dumcan (09:15.629)
Yeah, yeah.
Jeremy (09:16.176)
Right? Something, you know, something a little softer to something a lot less soft, you know? And I can see the transition. I can see, you know, I've spent enough time with some people who've done Chinese Goju or Okinawan Goju. And there's some similar philosophy to Kenpo.
Rudy Dumcan (09:20.173)
Right. Yeah.
Rudy Dumcan (09:35.597)
Yeah, well, you know, well, if you remember the all the martial arts came out of Okinawa came from the Shurin -ryu temple from the monks. They practice a system of training, which we call Xuan Fa, which meant Chinese hand or Chinese fists. So when the Okinawans learned it, they didn't have a name for it. So when the emperor
Jeremy (09:36.432)
So have that.
Rudy Dumcan (10:05.357)
and Japan heard that they were practicing this stuff, he sent an embassy over and they had to have a name for it. They didn't want to call it Chuan Fao, Chinese fist or Chinese hand, so they called it Tei. And then later they called it Nahatei, because that was the city that was closest to it. And then only when it went back to Japan, then they called it Karatei.
Jeremy (10:32.304)
Because not everyone realizes there's still some tension between mainland Japan and Okinawa.
Rudy Dumcan (10:33.453)
Hehehehe
Rudy Dumcan (10:38.349)
Yes, yes. So anyhow, the kipo was the American word for xuan fa, Chinese hand or Chinese fist.
Jeremy (10:52.016)
Okay, see, I didn't, I didn't know that. Okay, so we're, we're talking about Kempo being kind of throwing it back, going, going a little more historical to that. Okay, interesting. I didn't know that.
Rudy Dumcan (10:58.861)
Yes. Yeah. And people don't know that. So people, if you do more of the hard Kimpo, they, you do K -E -N -P -O. If you put the -N, you mean you're doing more of the soft Chinese Kimpo. So that's a little, I mean, you should.
Jeremy (11:17.36)
Okay. Now a question, because I know some people get really, really, really wrapped around the axle on that one. Is that something that we've come to do in the States or is that supported, you know, back through translation? Is that, is, is that how it was also done then, or is that just what we've started to do now?
Rudy Dumcan (11:37.473)
No, no, no, no. Systems are manmade. You know. Yeah.
Jeremy (11:41.648)
Okay, all right. That's what I thought, but I wanted to find the nice way to ask because somebody out there is going, Rrrr, see. Well, you know what?
Rudy Dumcan (11:49.773)
No, no. So people, whoever they train with, if it was more hard style or whatever, and they see that a lot of it came from a more Japanese based system, then they use the N, K -N -B -O. If people think like the Fred Valari system or Fred Conn, you know, the five animals and the Fred Calder, Charlotte and Kimpo.
then people say, that's a more soft system. So then they started using the KMPO part of it. Does it make a difference? Not really, you know.
Jeremy (12:27.952)
I've had people get really bent out of shape and correct my spelling and I said, okay, you realize you're arguing about the translation of the thing where these letters don't exist, right?
Rudy Dumcan (12:33.005)
Thank you.
Rudy Dumcan (12:40.781)
No, no, and it's a philosophy. So it's mainly philosophy like Gene Kung Do that Bruce Lee did. It's a philosophy, it's not a system. Wayne Chung is a system. Gene Kung Do is a philosophy. So it depends on what your philosophy is, which designation you use.
Jeremy (12:45.84)
That makes sense.
Jeremy (13:03.152)
So how did you find, and I'm having a really hard time not making a joke here, Tempo.
Rudy Dumcan (13:08.941)
Hehehehe
I did the hard styles and then I was traveling one day in Syracuse and I saw a sign that said Kimpo. And I said, I didn't know there was anything Kimpo in Syracuse. So I went in. Yeah, yeah. And I went in and the guy had carpet. And we trained on concrete floors and pillars in the middle. And...
Jeremy (13:25.968)
You'd heard about it at some point through your travels.
Jeremy (13:38.736)
of pillars.
Rudy Dumcan (13:39.117)
And people were laughing and having a good time. And I was like, my God, you can do this in karate? Never heard of such a thing. So I went in and there was a nice guy, Doug Savage, nice young kid, and he was teaching the Frevalari system of Kimpel. So I introduced myself and said, hey, can I come in and try out some time? And he said, yeah. And that was my first experience of.
getting into the frivolous system late 1970s and stuff.
Jeremy (14:14.031)
which I, you know, I'm from the Northeast, right? You know, I grew up in Maine. I've only ever lived in New England, but there was a time that I remember through the eighties, I, you know, I was born in 79, started training in the early eighties. And I remember the mid, the late eighties, there was a Volari school in every town, every town. And people think, Jeremy, you're exaggerating. I'm really not.
Rudy Dumcan (14:20.109)
Yes.
Rudy Dumcan (14:37.453)
yes. Yes.
Absolutely.
Jeremy (14:45.104)
The little towns of, you know, five, six, 8 ,000 people, the organization found a way, who can we get to run a school here? And it made an impact and we could have discussions over what that impact was, but I'm gonna stay off that. But I know enough about not just the system, but the organization to know that that's a dramatic departure from.
Rudy Dumcan (15:02.508)
Yeah.
Jeremy (15:13.936)
a full -time job's worth of training.
Rudy Dumcan (15:16.429)
Absolutely. Well, it was, Trevor Lare was one of the first ones that marketed karate in a certain way. Before then, it was little schools and, and, you know, people taught at community centers, but people didn't really have franchises that he was one of the first ones that developed the whole concept of franchises of developing a system that you could.
you know, train people in and then set them off to teach and open up schools. And that's good or bad, depending on how you look at it. I enjoyed my time with the Fred Valary system, but unfortunately, like big organizations, they tend to have a lot of politics in it. And eventually things start to fall apart, which, you know, I was sad to see because Fred Valary, when I opened up and I opened up under Fred Valary system,
I was the first one to open up a satellite school where I didn't have to do a franchise view.
Jeremy (16:22.896)
How'd you get that? Deal.
Rudy Dumcan (16:24.941)
Well, Fred allowed me to do that. So I always had a special...
Jeremy (16:30.48)
So that suggests to me, because I'll be honest, when he passed, I was really sad I'd never gotten to speak with him. Because, and I think long time audience members know, I don't play the political game, I don't do any of that, I don't judge anybody. If you're reaching martial artists, you're good, in my book. And he did that, he reached more.
Rudy Dumcan (16:56.557)
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jeremy (17:00.56)
martial artist and he did more for martial arts than just about anybody. And I really wanted to talk to him. And so it didn't happen. He's gone. But you had it. You obviously knew him better than most. If he can, can you speak?
Rudy Dumcan (17:10.573)
Yeah. He put Marshall Wards in New England on the map. Yeah. Yeah. I talked to him over the years and stuff. In fact, I got invited for his 50th, you know, and conflicts in my life, I couldn't make it, but I was glad that he invited me to that and stuff. So yeah, it was sad that he passed away, but yeah, he helped put Marshall Wards on the East Coast on the market.
In fact, Grandmaster Gaskin, one of my people that I teach this system, he always wanted to meet Fred Bellardi. And he was sad that he never got a chance to meet Fred because he thought he had a major impact on the martial arts community, which he did.
Jeremy (17:57.744)
And anytime I see a man who is...
that big of a figure publicly.
It tells me there's probably something that they're covering or hiding that they're probably a different person quietly with the people they know well one on one. Was that the case with him? Did you know him well enough that you would say that to be true?
Rudy Dumcan (18:23.245)
No, but I know other people that knew him well enough and yeah, he had another side like most of us. When we're in the limelight, he's shown bright. But with family members and everything else, yeah, he was just a regular guy.
Jeremy (18:42.736)
What was it about your, your tempo time that made you embrace that system versus these other things that you had done?
Rudy Dumcan (18:52.301)
Well, you know, the other styles really put a lot of emphasis on cotton, but not a lot of emphasis on fighting and self -defense. They did fighting in terms of tournament fighting and whatever, but Kimball for me was an art that had a lot of good self -defense aspects to it.
Jeremy (19:18.928)
Was that something that was important to you early on and you hadn't found it or was it the contrast that made you say, I want this?
Rudy Dumcan (19:26.093)
It was a contrast. I had studied and got very good at katas and performing and stuff like that. But then when I went to the Kimball system and I saw that they did other kinds of things, a lot of more hands and foot kind of combinations and stuff, I really thought that that was a good system that took me to another level. And...
Because I did that, then I also went into the Indonesian Filipino martial arts, a sea lot and whatever. And Kempel was a great entry into that because whatever we did with the open hands, we also did with sticks or knives. So that transition helped me continue my career in other ways.
Jeremy (20:17.712)
Yeah, I'm so used to so many people describing their system now as...
or Kempo Jujitsu or Kempo Jujitsu Escrima, right? Like they tack on these other things that philosophically kind of round out the art that they practice. And I only see that in the Kempo world. And I'm intentionally, for those of you listening or even watching, if you watch my lips, I'm trying to smush the and the N together. I'm trying to make a new sound so I don't offend anyone. But I find that fascinating. Yeah.
Rudy Dumcan (20:45.741)
Okay.
Yeah, yeah. Well, Kimball borrowed from a lot of different systems. So, you know, we acknowledge that our forms came from, you know, Shotokan, the heons. Our pignons were heons that we changed. So, you know, and we were the first bad boys in the martial arts because we wore blacks to tournaments.
And in the old days, we couldn't do tournaments. They threw us out because you could only wear white uniforms. So we weren't allowed to do the tournament. So we were the first bad boys in tournaments. Yeah, yeah, not that bad, but, you know, but, so, you know, there's a lot of nice things about, about Kimball, you know, I also did a little American Kimball because Ed Parker's system.
Jeremy (21:19.344)
Really?
Jeremy (21:27.824)
The original Cobra Kai.
Rudy Dumcan (21:45.421)
had Al Tracy and a bunch of guys here in Syracuse develop the Ed Parker system of Volaris martial arts which came real big here in Syracuse and that was the Ed Parker system. So I had a lot of friends that did American Kimball when I was doing the Fred Volaris, Shaolin Kimball. So that was a nice thing. I got to mix with so many martial artists even in Syracuse that we cross -trained. And the nice thing about once you cross -trained then...
you are a martial arts community, it's not like my style is better than your style, which is no such thing.
Jeremy (22:23.12)
But what's interesting, you know, I'm fortunate in that I've had the chance to talk to a lot of people over, you know, trained over the decades and started training at various times. And there seems to be, seems to have been this kind of peak of my school is better than yours. Don't don't train with anybody else. And that seems to have gone from about seventy five to ninety five. That seems like that was in the kind of the peak there. But what you're talking about is you had the you didn't have that experience. And that's really interesting.
Rudy Dumcan (22:51.629)
No, no, and also, I mean, I've spent the last 30, 40 years inviting different martial artists from different systems into my dojo to teach, ongoing. So people come from Canada, people come from everywhere. I invite them to come and teach. And so we have that martial community all as one. And unless you do that, you get...
You know, you get that certain ego and pride in your old school and therefore you start to develop that attitude like this system is better than other systems because you don't branch out and you don't look at other systems and stuff. But by inviting other people in and sharing information, then you lose that kind of egocentricism.
Jeremy (23:45.424)
And that was something that I think struck me, because I heard about you long before we met, but that was the thing that I heard, that people told me about you, and then when I met you...
I don't get any sense of ego from you. Maybe you hide it really well, but that's just, that's never been.
Rudy Dumcan (24:03.917)
Well, I don't think I'm that important. The other thing is, I remember when I met Grandmaster Gaskin, Victor Sundy Gaskin, and I was teaching the Karazimple Goshin -Jitsu system, and we were doing some forms and katas, and he said, you're doing them different than I taught. And I said, should we go back and learn them the way you did? He goes, no. He says, you've been teaching longer.
the system longer than I ever did. And I started laughing. He said, also, art is a living art, martial arts. It has to grow and has to develop. I taught a system 34 years ago. He said, I expect you to take it to the next level. You know, tradition means something came before you, but it doesn't mean that you always have to do things the same way.
Jeremy (25:03.248)
I want to take that sound bite and I want to clip it out. And I want to hardwire into headphones and duct tape those headphones to about half the martial arts community. Because I agree with you, right? You can't, if something doesn't change, it can't get better. And why wouldn't we want it to get better?
Rudy Dumcan (25:05.017)
Thank you.
Rudy Dumcan (25:13.965)
Yeah.
Rudy Dumcan (25:19.821)
Yeah.
Rudy Dumcan (25:23.309)
No.
Rudy Dumcan (25:28.493)
Well, because, yeah, let's say that was the mindset, you know, you have to remember a lot of the cultures, this lot of the stuff that we practice came from Oriental culture, Japanese, very rigid, very set culture and stuff. So to say that you're going to change stuff that came before you is like, my God, you know, you can't, you can't do that.
Jeremy (25:28.592)
I don't have an answer to that. Because I always want everything to get better.
Rudy Dumcan (25:56.653)
But just like warfare, we don't fight the same way we did 150 years ago. Everything changes in life. We have to change with it. So I think since martial arts has only been around for 50 something or so years, because like from the late 1950s to now, we're starting to understand that it's okay to take it to another level.
and don't get locked into the past.
Jeremy (26:28.56)
And one of the things I think is really interesting is if we consider the last 10 to 15 years, the tremendous usage of the internet to spread what we're doing, to talk about what we're doing, sharing ideas, critiquing ideas. If we were to find some way to chart the growth of martial arts, I don't mean by participation, but I mean in skill effectiveness, et cetera, it's made a huge swing upwards.
Because now we can compare all these ideas really quickly. You don't have to know the person holding the seminar and get up and drive three hours to go to it. You can watch a YouTube video and that might give you an idea. And I love that. And it seems like you're embracing that philosophy as well.
Rudy Dumcan (27:17.869)
Yeah, well, you know, I'm also part of an international group and that group has, you know, people all over the world. So the nice thing about that is you can talk to different people in Europe, in South Africa, in India.
And because of that, it opens up a whole new avenue for you. So the internet is important. The only bad thing about it is some people then go to the internet to learn and think therefore they're training. And when I tell people, no, you train, then you can go to the internet and look at different stuff, but you have to train first to get proper application.
Jeremy (28:05.712)
I see books, video, et cetera, as an opportunity to refine or to adjust, right? It's detail, it's not macro, it's not the big stuff.
Rudy Dumcan (28:11.469)
Yes.
Rudy Dumcan (28:16.813)
No, those are tools, tools to aid you in your development, but you need the personalized training.
Jeremy (28:28.112)
So here we are, we're stacking systems. You've got all these systems that you've trained in. How much of the early stuff that you did, can we find, are there bits in what you do and train and teach now?
Rudy Dumcan (28:45.517)
Yeah, yeah, I mean the old katas and stuff from Goju are still there. People always argue what's the benefit of katas. Katas, you can look at them in a couple ways. Katas teach you movement. It's pre -arranged fights to give you something to think about, but it teaches you proper stances, distancing, spatial distancing.
Jeremy (28:46.608)
in there.
Rudy Dumcan (29:13.869)
turning left, right, both sides and stuff. So there's a lot of benefit to kata. But you have to understand, kata is not fighting. You're not going to fight like that in a street fight. So you have to change the kata. And if you just stick with how you learn something without examining it, then you won't develop. So.
I take what I've learned in the old days and I made it better.
And that's, we talk about the bunkai when people say bunkai. Bunkai is the hidden meaning behind what you do. But I tell people bunkai is a discussion. There's no right answer. It's just a discussion. Cause you may view it, Jeremy may view it different from I may view it. Both points are good. I can't say one's better than the other. So if you tell people it's a discussion, then you move forward a lot more.
Jeremy (30:13.552)
I think the value is less in what is the meaning and more so in looking for the meaning, the discussion over the meaning. I think that is much more valuable. it could be this. But what about the massive thought process you went through to come up with it could be this or it's not that, or what if it was this, right? Like I think that is much more interesting and.
Rudy Dumcan (30:25.549)
Yes.
Jeremy (30:42.128)
this came to me while you were talking kata was kind of the old youtube
Rudy Dumcan (30:47.053)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy (30:48.976)
Right? If all you do is kata, you're gonna be missing some things. But if you've got other things and you go back to them, there's a lot you can pull out.
Rudy Dumcan (30:56.269)
Well, you...
Rudy Dumcan (31:02.445)
Well, you know, you go in the seminars, you know that. You go to a seminar and then you stop and say, anybody has any questions? And there's hardly one question in the room. And you just said, well, hold it. I just went through a whole bunch of stuff. Nobody has any questions. And that's because we don't do that in regular class. You have to do that in regular class to train people to ask why.
and why does this happen and why are we doing this and could it be different and what about this and if they don't feel okay to do that in class they sure as hell not going to do it in seminar.
Jeremy (31:44.72)
Right.
Rudy Dumcan (31:45.421)
So we have, at the end of every class, we have a discussion, even in the kids' class. What did you do today? What did you learn? How did you feel? What worked? What didn't work? What do you think about this stuff? And for kids, we want that creativity. We want them to learn to think, not just do stuff.
Jeremy (32:09.296)
I don't know how this happened. This happened organically when I started my school. My school isn't even quite a year old. But we end and I invite the students who has a great question and it's led to some wonderful conversation, but it's also changed the tone of classes. I've had students and I'm thinking it's one example. You know, I teach my students even in early rank brush, grab, strike. And one of them is like, this seems awfully inefficient.
It's three things. Why can't I just block strike? And so we had a good conversation about it. And as he got better, he went, I get it now, right? And I think that that's so important. I think learning, you gotta kind of memorize. You kinda gotta trust. You kinda gotta go through the motions. But at some point, you gotta start asking why. You gotta understand.
Rudy Dumcan (32:39.933)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.
Rudy Dumcan (33:04.973)
Well, yeah, and in the old days when you did classes, you didn't get to talk. It was all very structured in training. So that's the way it would be for a long period of time. You didn't ask questions in class. If an instructor asked you a question, you could respond, but you couldn't raise your hand and say, what about this? What about that? Yeah, so we...
Jeremy (33:25.745)
I did a lot of pushups. A lot of pushups because of why. Yeah.
Rudy Dumcan (33:29.997)
We've changed that mentality. One of the things that I passed on to my long -term student, Jesse, is that same kind of thing. Question and answer and talk and have people just don't go with what you say, but feel free to ask whatever questions and stuff. In seminars, I always ask, what's more important, when or how to move?
And half the people went and half the people how. But nobody says both are equally important. You know, everybody will pick one, but they don't understand it. They're all important and why they're important. Yeah. So different training over the years and stuff. The fear is martial arts in traditional ways as we view it are starting to go down a little bit.
Jeremy (34:29.456)
What do you mean by that?
Rudy Dumcan (34:29.517)
Because we have these 30 minute kickboxing fitness centers where people want to come in. They don't want history. They don't want any knowledge. They just want to come and sweat, work out, hit some bags and stuff. So you have a whole industry to that. The next industry you have that's taking over is Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, which is great.
Once again, people are doing techniques. There's no history, there's no discussion of the art.
Jeremy (35:05.232)
Some, I'll challenge you a little bit there because there are, I see BJJ as one of those arts that can be trained in a very modern way, a very non -traditional way like you're talking about, but I've also known and even trained at schools that do take a very traditional approach philosophically. And you can tell when you work with someone very quickly what kind of school they were at.
Rudy Dumcan (35:27.277)
Yeah, as soon as you walk in. Right.
Yeah. But you know, we don't have the days where people train seven days a week, four hours a day and do like those days are over, you know, and you can't afford to with life. Life interferes with family, college, you know, kids, all that kind of stuff. And that's OK. I sold a diner source myself, you know, we train every day, not because we have classes, but we do that for our own personal development.
Jeremy (35:59.28)
you don't know what else to do. What else would you do with that time? What's more valuable than the time training?
Rudy Dumcan (36:05.581)
Well, painting the house, doing yard work, and there's a lot of other things we do. But training is important.
Jeremy (36:13.904)
Yeah. Yeah. Now you mentioned Jesse, who of course is Jesse Dwyer, who's been on the show. Great guy. one of the best senses of humor of anybody I know. I don't know how much of that he got from you. You also have a wonderful sense of humor, so we'll, we'll give you all the credit for that. But you, you, I forget how you put it, but you, the way you expressed it was kind of that he's taking.
Rudy Dumcan (36:31.085)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, some of the creed.
Jeremy (36:43.696)
what you've taught him in running with it. It's almost like you've handed some things off. Is that, did I get that right? Is that?
Rudy Dumcan (36:49.837)
Yeah, yeah. When he first opened up, he was like, we should franchise. And I go, we're not franchising. I want you to be your own person, run your own school, put your own thumbprint on it. That's the important thing I want you to learn, that you need to teach the way that you feel is important for you, because then you'll be successful with your students.
We pride ourselves on building relationships. A lot of schools in the old days, you'd come in, you'd pay, you'd do your monthly stuff, whatever, but you didn't, they didn't really get to know you. You didn't really get to know them. I've always had a family type relationship with my students. And I think that's carried on through Jesse. And we always say when you get your black belt now.
Welcome to the family. You're part of the extended family and stuff. So I'm proud that he's done that. But also I wanted him to be his own person. Sometimes people try to copy your instructor and the way that they do things. And it doesn't always work out because we're not the same people. You have to do it your way. So I've given him a lot of credit.
and wrote to say, go out and do it your way. And then when he does things that I think need a little taken back, then I pick up the phone and I call him. Well, maybe you don't want to do that, but yeah.
Jeremy (38:30.872)
You
I think it's so refreshing because so many of us, and this kind of comes back to ego because I think a lot of people, you've touched on your age a couple times, folks even much younger than you start to think about their legacy. And to a lot of them, that legacy is, this is the style, these are the forms, this is how we're doing them. I'm gonna put it on, in the old days, tape, I'm gonna record them. We're gonna keep this exactly as it is. I'm gonna write a book, whatever it is.
And that, I think, is a trap. Because as you said, nobody else is ever going to be you. At best, they are 99 % you. Right? Well, that means it gets less. It gets worse over time. I don't think that's a good thing. I don't think anybody thinks that's a good thing, assuming they agree with my math.
Rudy Dumcan (39:23.661)
No, no. Well, you know, the other day I was looking at all these plaques and awards and all this kind of stuff. And I said, what am I going to do with this? You know, when I, when I pass, who's going to want this stuff? I feel good that I've had all these accolades from martial arts hall fame, from, from instructors and different stuff, people that, you know, value what I, I've taught them or whatever. But.
It's going to go someplace. But I told Jesse I'd box up a lot of it, just send him, and then he could do stuff with it. Because my son and daughter don't want that stuff. They've got their own stuff. I wrote an article one time called In Search of Our Fathers. And it's on my website. But somebody asked me, it's like, what about rank, and what about this, and what about all these accolades? And I go.
That's not important. I said the most, the best accolades I ever got in my life is that parents trust me enough to send their kids to train with me. What more can you get? That's the best pat on the back I can ever get.
Jeremy (40:40.912)
I have, you know, there are plaques and certificates and things in the other room there. And I, if the place was burning, I'm not gonna save those. I'm gonna save the thank you card from the student that earned her yellow belt before she took off, right? Like that heartfelt note that I helped change someone's life, right? That means more to me than...
Rudy Dumcan (41:06.509)
yeah.
Jeremy (41:10.704)
proof of what I've done. I know what I've done. I don't care if anybody else knows what I've done. I'm hearing you say similar.
Rudy Dumcan (41:13.453)
Right, right. Well, that's, yeah, well, that's why I think I've been successful in getting along with so many different martial artists from all over. Because one, never cared about rank, never interest in it, just care about knowledge and sharing knowledge. So when people meet me, that's what we talk about, you know?
knowledge and learning because I can always learn. I tell my students I learn from them every time I teach class. Whether it's a white belt or whatever, I've become a better teacher.
Jeremy (41:49.968)
White belts are really, really good at teaching you how unclear your instructions were.
Rudy Dumcan (41:55.917)
Absolutely.
Jeremy (41:59.088)
Craig's got a good one. You know Craig. Craig's been on the show a bunch. Craig Wareham to those of you out in the audience and he tells his story at our teacher trading stuff. All right everybody put your hands up. And it was a new group and they literally just put their hands over their head.
Rudy Dumcan (42:02.573)
So.
Rudy Dumcan (42:13.357)
yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. Well, same thing when I have an instructor training program. You can get a black belt, but you can't be an instructor unless you've done two years of teaching under my tutelage. I can give it a black belt, but some of my instructors are terrible with kids. I don't have to teach kids. They're great with adults. Some of my people are great with kids. They're terrible with adults.
So, you know, but they need to know that. And I share that with them and saying, listen, you can get better. But for right now, your skill set is with adults and you do a wonderful job. So I did have one of my instructors one time, I left him with a kids class because I come teach that day and he came back and he said, please don't leave me with the kids. They ran all over me. I go, what? He says, yeah, they ran all over me. They didn't listen to whatever.
And I go, but you're the instructor. He goes, well, maybe you need to tell him that. And he was an Army veteran, but they ran all over him.
Jeremy (43:23.44)
gotta keep the energy up with the little ones. That's what I tell people. If you wanna teach kids, it almost doesn't matter what you do, if you convince them that you're excited about it, they'll follow you.
Rudy Dumcan (43:25.325)
you're going.
Rudy Dumcan (43:33.325)
And that's the thing you have to have them have fun and you have to make sure it's fun for learning adults. They don't care whether you have fun, you know, they want to. Well, I, I, I do seminars and I make sure all my have fun. Yeah, we have a lot of fun and in class we laugh and whatever, but it's not the same with kids. You know,
Jeremy (43:44.048)
You don't think so? I think they want to have fun. I think they just don't admit it.
I've been in your seminars, you have a lot of fun.
Rudy Dumcan (44:01.677)
My kids want to run and do push -ups and jumping jacks and rolls and tumbling. I come to my adult class and say, OK, guys, we've got to run, we've got to roll, we've got to tumbling. They're like, are you kidding me? Because I have an older group. All my young people are gone. This is my third, fourth generation of people. Kids, I taught them.
Long time ago, they're running around the street with their kids going, hey, you know who that guy was? That was my sensei when I was a kid. And you're 45 years old. So, you know, my, my group is changing. I'm getting older people in and want to come in and, and, and, and getting in shape, do some fitness and learn. We're talking 50 to 80. Yeah.
Jeremy (44:52.752)
Now when you say older, what ages are we talking about?
That's awesome. What are you doing to make them comfortable? Because that's an age group that most martial arts schools would love to have. What are you doing that the rest of us aren't?
Rudy Dumcan (44:59.565)
Yeah.
Rudy Dumcan (45:06.765)
Well, we break things down very slowly because they're information -based. They ask the questions. Why we're doing this block or why can't we do it this way or I feel uncomfortable doing this. And as long as you say, well, that's okay. I'm glad you feel uncomfortable because sometimes when we do things, you have to feel uncomfortable.
because somebody grabbing you, you're not going to feel comfortable. That's not something that's happened to you. So we do a lot of training where we're teaching touch and grappling.
and having people talk about the feelings and how they do with the older group. Because you can't just give a whole bunch of techniques. They don't care about a whole bunch of techniques. They want fewer techniques and understand what they're doing. So we break it down very slowly, very few techniques, but techniques that they feel that they can do. And that's the key, not just giving a whole bunch of crazy techniques.
Jeremy (46:18.064)
Probably not a lot of jump spinning crescent kicks in your classes.
Rudy Dumcan (46:20.973)
No, we do four bean kicks. Front kick, side kick, back kick, and maybe a roundhouse kick or crescent. And that's it. They don't need any more kicks. So when you start...
Jeremy (46:35.888)
I agree. We do five. My school has adds hook kick in there. No hook kick. We do round and hook. They'll figure out an axe kick. They'll figure out crescent kicks. I don't need to teach them that.
Rudy Dumcan (46:40.397)
you do the X? okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
My older crowd can't do a hook kick.
Jeremy (46:55.44)
I bet they can if they do it low to the side.
Rudy Dumcan (46:57.933)
They can, we have them kick the pads low and stuff.
Jeremy (47:03.44)
Hook kicks are great for teaching sweeps.
Rudy Dumcan (47:06.093)
Yeah, yeah, that's the hardest thing for them. Yeah, it's doing the sweeps, but you know, we break it down in such a good way that they know they can do it. And also we do a lot of partner training. And the issue with partners is if you train today, your partner has to leave with the same information you left with. You can't just say, I can do the techniques, but they can't do it. I got to make sure that...
your partner is equal. You know, and if not, you're in trouble.
Jeremy (47:44.24)
Here's a question for you, because we've talked about this arc of your time training and some of the philosophical differences over the years, but let's really look at it as a then to now.
What do you if you could kind of go back to maybe not day one for you? But when you started teaching if you could go back and visit that version of you when you were an early instructor What would you be telling yourself to do different?
Rudy Dumcan (48:18.925)
Teach less. I think the biggest mistake when you're a young instructor is you have a lot of information and you think it's important to just give all this information. Instead of standing back, give them very small sections. Because it's hard. Even instructors now, new instructors when they teach, I see them make the same mistake.
Jeremy (48:21.711)
in Lule.
Rudy Dumcan (48:48.909)
They wanted to teach like the whole form or person and it was like No, no only teach this amount But you want to show what you know So I think that was the thing I learned in the first year or so to cut back on I don't need to impress them that I know stuff because I know stuff But that's the feeling that you have it's like I gotta show them that I know all this stuff
Jeremy (49:16.976)
because you want them to believe that you're trying to help them. I think for most people it comes from a good place, but it can be so difficult.
Rudy Dumcan (49:20.589)
Yes.
Yeah, yeah, it does, but you know, you can get caught into that very easily of overdoing it. And then you see the deer in the headlight where people just, they're overloaded.
Jeremy (49:39.504)
And people need time and space to figure things out. I remember this seminar so vividly.
The instructor spent several minutes explaining and demonstrating what we were being asked to do. And I do it one time and it wasn't quite right. And he came right there with another 30 to 60 seconds on what I'm doing wrong. And I'm just sitting there the whole time going, you know, the second one, thinking the second one probably would have been.
Rudy Dumcan (50:05.793)
I'm going to go ahead and close the video.
Rudy Dumcan (50:16.973)
Right, right.
Jeremy (50:18.16)
In this time that you've been lecturing me, how many more reps could I have gotten? And gotten a little closer. We need space, we need time to make mistakes and figure things out. It's how, I mean, it's how we learn everything. Somehow we don't seem to think, some of us as instructors don't seem to think that that's the way we should learn, but I do.
Rudy Dumcan (50:22.285)
Absolutely.
Rudy Dumcan (50:29.769)
Thank you.
Rudy Dumcan (50:36.973)
Well, and one of my instructors, Master Joe Salamone, when we trained silent training, taught you a technique and you would practice that technique with your partner. One technique over and over, maybe 30 times, but no discussion.
You just.
Jeremy (51:01.648)
Would he critique or change anything or just observed?
Rudy Dumcan (51:05.165)
He would just observe. And then at the end, he'd call everybody out with your partner, and you would have to demonstrate technique. But all his classes were no talking.
because you learn from silence. Two months talking in between means you're not practicing. You're not doing the technique. So all our classes for years were silent. Then at the end of a two hour class, you could talk with your partner, you could talk with the instructor about what you think, how well you did or whatever. So I learned a lot about.
having people just go through and do techniques over and over again. And then good critique is always being supportive. What I teach my instructors is you say, let's make that better, as opposed to you're not doing it right. I can only make that better. That's a whole different positive way.
And kids like, yeah, I can't wait to make it better. And adults, the same thing. But there's too much of that. You're not doing that right. That's wrong, whatever. That negativity carries over into everything. So we try to avoid that at all times. And I think that's probably the best lesson that, you know, Shandwai has learned because everything he does is much more positive with all his people. That's why he has a great school.
Jeremy (52:26.8)
doesn't help anybody.
Jeremy (52:45.232)
You want to get better when he's teaching you. You just, you want to, he's inspiring in that way. Not, not because he's in the front of the room doing impossible things, but because you just feel in it. And I think a lot of people in the audience have instructors like this. And if you don't, I hope you can find one where your instructor gets better. That they make you feel like you can get better and they want you to get better and they're willing to do whatever they can to help you get better. And.
Rudy Dumcan (52:50.829)
Yeah.
Rudy Dumcan (53:08.621)
Yes.
Jeremy (53:15.088)
I mean, who doesn't want to be in that environment? Who's not going to succeed in that?
Rudy Dumcan (53:20.301)
And that's the biggest change in the martial arts, because in the old days, that wasn't the environment. The environment was military style, 8 ,000 pushups and sitting on horse stands for an hour. That was just painstaking. So I loved the change in the martial arts over the years. And I've been part of that change in terms of, you know.
Jeremy (53:36.848)
always more worst.
Rudy Dumcan (53:49.069)
taking that traditional hard style of doing it and making it fun. People come to class if it's fun and enjoyable and they're learning. And that's the key component to making the Marsh York School successful with anything.
Jeremy (54:07.28)
Things can be difficult and fun. You know how many martial arts schools out there would love to have the participation numbers of Spartan races. Right? That's really difficult and really fun because they focus on making sure you have the opportunity to have fun.
Rudy Dumcan (54:15.981)
yeah.
Rudy Dumcan (54:20.461)
Yeah.
Rudy Dumcan (54:25.485)
And well, it's funny because people who know me, you know, they think, geez, he must have a big school. It's like, what? I've never had a big school because this is not my career. This is my second career. I'm a mental health therapist. Yeah, I've done that for 45 years. The karate's just the way of, that's my fun time. Yeah.
Jeremy (54:39.28)
What is your career?
Jeremy (54:43.056)
Well that tried.
Rudy Dumcan (54:53.485)
But, you know, so I meet a lot of people and they say, geez, you know, how many schools you got? And I go, one, it's very small, whatever. And they go, what? I said, no, Jesse's got the big school. That's what I want him to have. He does that full time. He needs a big school. But for me, I've only done it part time for past 40 something years.
Rudy Dumcan (55:17.517)
Maybe that's why my eagle's not so large.
Jeremy (55:20.752)
Maybe. What are you learning now?
What are you investing your time into learning or improving or whatever word you want to throw there?
Rudy Dumcan (55:30.981)
I'm learning my internal arts more.
I do the Tai Chi, the Chi Gong, but I'm learning much more of the internal stuff. I've always had the external, been very good at it. But I've been teaching Tai Chi now for probably 30 something years. And I'm getting better at it. And every time I do it, I understand it a little better. And the breathing aspects are better.
and the whole internal system is better.
And I think that's what people need to go to. Some systems, the Chinese system, start with the internal, go to external.
Rudy Dumcan (56:23.053)
And the rest of us start with the external and hopefully at some point get to the internal stuff. We kind of do it backwards.
Jeremy (56:29.872)
What has, how has that impacted your external?
Rudy Dumcan (56:34.541)
So made it better. Movement.
Jeremy (56:37.84)
In what way?
Rudy Dumcan (56:43.917)
and touch.
I always tell people to do three different things. I move, I touch, destroy. Or we can say hit. But yeah, move and touch, you know, and the movements are smaller.
Jeremy (56:59.312)
I like destroy better. It's a better word.
Rudy Dumcan (57:09.645)
And when you first start doing karate, you do a lot of the large movements. But the more you go with the internal and the system, the more your structure aligns and destroys their structure, it's very little movement that you have to do. The more exaggerated movements, the more you change your structure, not theirs. So that's what I've learned.
And when I touch people, I always say, as soon as I touch you, I've changed your structure.
Jeremy (57:39.92)
I've reduced it.
Rudy Dumcan (57:41.837)
but I'm not doing it in a hard way. You don't feel the change in your structure so dramatic, but it changes where I have the advantage. And so that's where the internal stuff does. Also just makes you feel better if you do the breathing exercises and qigong, you'll find out that your health is much better.
And as a trauma person, I do a lot of vets with PTSD and the chi -gun breathing stuff helps for the ps post -traumatic stress stuff because before you can do cognitive behavioral therapy, I got to get that anxiety out of the organs before they can talk about it.
So I've had a lot of success. So for me, that's the best benefit of that, is helping a lot of people with different anxieties and different stuff. Yeah.
Jeremy (58:40.784)
If people want to find you online, you mentioned website, I think you have social media too. How would people get a hold of you?
Rudy Dumcan (58:47.341)
They can find me at www .duncansmartialarts .com. They can go Rudy Duncan Facebook. They can go Duncan's Martial Arts Facebook. They're not hiding. I can't hide. Even if I try to hide. Although I will say that five years ago, somebody copied my whole webpage.
Jeremy (58:57.84)
hiding you're pretty easy to
Rudy Dumcan (59:14.381)
changed just words and said they studied with me.
Jeremy (59:21.136)
Rudy Dumcan (59:23.277)
And I visited the school in Colorado and walked in and said, I'm the guy that you said you studied with me, but I've never seen you.
Jeremy (59:25.776)
how back.
Jeremy (59:37.424)
What happened?
Rudy Dumcan (59:38.765)
Well, I was very gracious. I told him he was going to do a seminar and I said, on Saturday, the seminar you're going to do, I'm going to do, and you're going to pay me. And that way I won't tell your parents that you've never studied with me. You don't know me. I said, you're a young kid. I'm glad that you feel like I was important enough for you to copy all my web pages and say you studied with me.
But from now on, here's what you do. I know some people in Colorado, and what you're going to do is you're going to call them afterwards, and you're going to train with them, because they train with me. And then you can say that you did stuff with me. In the old days, it would have been bad stuff. But, you know, I was trying to teach the kid a lesson, because he was a young kid. And I said, listen, you know, at some point when you put stuff out there, people are going to check it out.
Jeremy (01:00:22.192)
Yeah.
Rudy Dumcan (01:00:32.205)
and you're just lucky that I checked it out and then make a big deal and stuff like this because I want you to learn. You're not a bad kid, you just made bad choices.
Jeremy (01:00:41.904)
And lucky that your priority was still on education, right? Because you could have, I mean, you could have sued that kid into bankruptcy easily.
Rudy Dumcan (01:00:50.444)
Yes.
Rudy Dumcan (01:00:54.957)
Yeah, yeah, and what would be the purpose of that? Just, you know, I mean, that's not my personality. My personality is that I saw that the kid wanted to do something.
I felt kind of nice that he picked that he wanted to say he'd train with me. He just did it in all the wrong ways and stuff. Yeah. And I still hear from him. He's moved out to Colorado. He's got another school in another place. He's doing very well, but he keeps in touch with me. And so that I feel is a great way of that story ending there.
Jeremy (01:01:13.424)
Yeah.
Jeremy (01:01:32.816)
I think that's a perfect illustration of who you are and why the people around you, because I heard about you for years before we met, but it's why you're so special to so many people.
Rudy Dumcan (01:01:42.305)
Yeah, somebody said, man, everybody gets along with you and everybody likes you. And I said, well, because I don't talk to the people who don't. And they go, I don't know those people, so I don't talk to them.
Jeremy (01:02:00.528)
Well, in a moment, I'm going to throw it back to you to close us up, but I'll do a brief outro here for the audience. So, hey, all of you out there, if you ever get the chance to train at a seminar with this man, or maybe, you know, you've thought, hey, I feel like going to Syracuse, take the opportunity because you're going to learn and you're going to have fun. And if you've been around long enough, you know, those are the two check boxes that I think are important. Have fun, learn something. If you keep that on repeat.
Rudy Dumcan (01:02:04.525)
Yes.
Jeremy (01:02:30.928)
you'll be great, just, you know, in a few decades.
Rudy Dumcan (01:02:33.237)
Yeah. Yeah. And I'd just like to say thank you, Whistlekick, and I thank Jeremy for allowing me this time. It was a pleasure. And once again, I'm Grandmaster Rudy Duncan, or just Rudy Duncan. And you're always welcome to come to Syracuse. I'll put you up if you want to train, or if you just want to pick up the phone and call me and talk with me, you're welcome to do that anytime. And thank you.
Jeremy (01:02:58.896)
Yeah, thank you. Thanks for being here.
Rudy Dumcan (01:03:00.493)
All right, have a good one, sir. Okay. Yeah.