Episode 906 - Tashi Tim Caves
In today's episode Jeremy sits down in person and chats with Tashi Tim Caves about his journey through martial arts.Tashi Tim Caves - Episode 906
SUMMARY
In this episode, Tashi Tim Caves shares his martial arts journey and his transition from engineering to teaching math. He discusses his early training, his enjoyment of teaching, and the challenges of teaching martial arts in a school setting. Tashi also talks about his training curriculum, which includes styles such as Harimau Silat, Dikiti Tirsia Sirads Kali, Northern Mantis Kung Fu, and Shaolin Kung Fu. He reflects on his years of training and the overlap between different styles. Overall, Tashi's story highlights the passion and dedication he has for both martial arts and teaching. In this conversation, Jeremy discusses with him, his experience teaching different martial arts styles, his training schedule, and his track and field background. He also talks about the similarities between individual sports and martial arts, his future plans, and the importance of self-critique and improvement. Lastly he shares advice he would give to his younger self and encourages listeners to train and balance their commitments.
TAKEAWAYS
*Tashi Tim Caves started his martial arts journey at the age of seven and has been training for over 20 years.
*He transitioned from engineering to teaching math and enjoys the opportunity to help students understand and reach their goals.
*Tashi's training curriculum includes styles such as Harimau Silat, Dikiti Tirsia Sirads Kali, Northern Mantis Kung Fu, and Shaolin Kung Fu.
*He finds that there is overlap and fluidity between these styles, allowing for a comprehensive and integrated training experience. Teaching different martial arts styles requires adapting and finding ways to make it work for all students.
*Maintaining a consistent training schedule is important for progress and improvement.
*Individual sports, like track and field and martial arts, offer opportunities for personal growth and support from a group.
*Filming forms and techniques can serve as a valuable reference for self-critique and improvement.
*Opening a martial arts school requires a significant time and energy commitment, and it's important to consider personal preferences and priorities.
*Balancing training and teaching requires effective communication and finding ways to manage multiple commitments.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and Background
03:05 Early Martial Arts Training
08:12 Interest in Teaching
09:31 Transition to Teaching Math
14:13 Career Path: Engineering to Teaching
21:26 Reflection on Years of Training
24:34 Training Curriculum and Styles
27:32 Ranking and Enjoyment of Styles
30:49 Integration of Different Styles
31:22 Teaching Different Martial Arts Styles
33:01 Training Schedule
34:38 Track and Field Experience
35:57 Individual Sports Done in a Group
38:30 Future Plans
39:22 Balancing Personal Training and Teaching
40:05 Filming Forms for Reference
44:04 Self-Critique and Improvement
50:16 Opening a Martial Arts School
55:54 Advice to Younger Self
59:51 Encouragement to Train and Balance Commitments
Show Notes
This episode is sponsored by Kataaro. Please check out their site at Kataaro Custom Martial Arts Products - Kataaro. And use the code WK10 to save 10% off your order. And be sure to ask them about a wholesale account for school owners!
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Show Transcript
Jeremy (00:00.634)
Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome. This is Whistlekick Commercial Arts Radio on today's episode. Episode. Episode. I'm joined live, as maybe you can see, by Tashi Tim Cabe. You were worried about you flubbing stuff. Look, this is how I'm starting the day. Tashi Tim Caves, and we're gonna talk all about your journey. You know, it's funny. I've known you for years, and I know almost nothing about your origin story, so I've been excited about this.
And if you're new to this show, usually my intros are a little better, but you know what? We just kind of run with it here because that's life. Sometimes we keep it organic here. Actually, we always keep it organic and authentic.
But if you're new to what we do, please check out whistlekick .com for all of the things that we do because we make this podcast, but we also have apparel and training equipment and training programs and the best program for martial arts schools, Whistlekick Alliance, as well as a bunch of other stuff. So go to whistlekick .com and check out that stuff over there. And if you want to go deeper on the episodes, whistlekickmarshallartsradio .com. Now today's episode is sponsored by Katara. And if you know Katara, you know that they
They do amazing things and they need this sweatshirt. But I want you to consider something about their belts. So Kataro makes the best belts in the world. They are awesome. And I know some things about making belts because we tried to make belts once. Not internally, but let's just say it didn't go well. And anybody out there with a whistle kick belt, it's a collector's item. You're not going to see those again because Kataro makes really great belts.
But if you go and you go to buy a belt from Kataro, you're not picking from like one of eight choices in their warehouse that it goes out of stock. Their warehouse is full of material. They make every belt or sash, right, you wear a sash in your training, to order. So.
Jeremy (01:58.042)
You're only limited by your creativity. And you can check out the belt that we came up with in conjunction with Kataro. One side is black with white embroidery, the other side is white with black embroidery. And as it wears through, the black wears through to white, and the white wears through to black. It's really cool. And that was my vision. And it was something that represented what we do here at Whistlekick. So you can check that out.
in my notes here, if you can dream it, Kataro could probably make it. So don't be afraid to reach out to them. Use the code WK10, capital letters, for 10 % off your first order. And if you're a school, make sure you have a wholesale account. You're gonna get even better pricing there. That's really their big thing. And I know schools that have standardized on Kataro stuff for their black belts and above because they give free stripes. You can send it back and they'll do free stripes for life, which is a really cool program. So thank you to Kataro.
And thank you to you for being here. Thank you for having me. Yeah. Is your sweatshirt green or is that the lighting screen? It is green. I haven't seen a green one from you guys. That's awesome. I like that. Yeah, we had a couple in last order. Nice.
Jeremy (03:04.858)
I've been on the floor training with you, you've come through thematic trainings, I've seen you at all in Weekend, I've seen you at Free Training Day and Marshall Summit, I've seen you in your school a dozen times, I know nothing about your martial arts training other than when we've been in context together. You said 20 years you've been with Mark?
and you're not a whole lot older than that. So you started young. I started when I was seven. Okay. August of 2003. Okay. Why? I started actually because of a library. So the library, the local library nearby me had a program where...
Kids got points for reading certain number of books. You could spend those points at any point during the summer or you could save them up for the end. My brother and I decided to save them up for the end and a lot of what they had was gone. The best prize that was left was, I forget if it was two or three weeks or two or three months, but something, trial. Free martial arts training. Free martial arts, yeah. School owners, you just heard a really cool idea. So.
My parents had apparently, and I don't remember any of this, tried to get my brother and I into martial arts when we were even younger, and we had adamantly refused. I don't remember any of that. So my mom had said - Maybe even deny it now. I mean, it's such a big part of who you are. The idea that you were interested in martial arts initially closed my mind. Well, we probably didn't know what it was when we were pretty young. But my mom had said, we'll walk in the door.
give it five minutes. If you don't like it, we'll walk out and we'll go back. And obviously that was August 2003, I'm still training. So something went right it went well. Yes.
Jeremy (04:56.25)
We had our first couple of intros and then just went from there, stood towards the back of the room for the first few classes, just had to figure things out. I was six and a seven year old. My brother actually, they were nice enough to, because he was super shy at the time, put him in classes with me, even though we would have been split because he was, he would have been one of the oldest of the three to six year old dragons and I would have been one of the youngest of juniors, but they knew he'd never stay in class without me. So they put him in with me and he was fine and it was good for both of us.
Were you close? Yeah, we were very close. What do you remember about those first days? I'm not sure if... It's more just images of standing in the back of the room. It was a carpeted floor. 20 years is a long time. We had little tape spots on the floor. The first location. There were a lot of kids in class, so there were a lot of people to watch and a lot of it...
was just me trying not to get things wrong. Which you know me well enough to know that. I do. Very much me as. I do, yeah. You like to get things. Less so as an adult, but I still like to get things right. You're a detailed lioness in person. Yeah. Maybe a little less hard on myself about it now. Sure. But. Sure. Let me just double check the recording. Everything looks good. Okay. No, I can focus on you. Okay.
Jeremy (06:23.61)
I like what you said, you know, that request of your mother, give it five minutes. I think that's something that... I think...
Jeremy (06:36.73)
need to use as a tool to get buy -in, right? Because, you know, momentum, right? You get somebody doing something and then they keep going. But what I think's most interesting to me is this initial apprehensive, resistance might not be the right word, but reluctance maybe is a better word, to training, to martial arts in general, and then to know you now, where that's just such a...
seem so counter to everything I know about you. When did that change? When did it stop being reluctance? Honestly, it might have been that first day when we actually figured out what it was and what we were, because part of it too, I think I remember my mom also saying, like, my dad wanted to get my brother and I in boxing gloves and we were like four and five, just so we could.
have it out any time that we had an injury. Had he done anything? Had he boxed or anything? No, he never had any formal training. He got into a lot of fights, but he was never... He never had any formal training. All right, so he saw some value in you being able to use hands when maybe it was necessary based on his upbringing. Sure. Okay. And...
I feel like there were a lot of things that he tended to push that we tended to push back on. So it might have just been that. Plus not knowing what it was that we were doing. So once we actually had the exposure to it and saw the environment, definitely had no problem sticking with it.
because I've never in 20 years questioned, like, should I stop or anything? So. Yeah. Now, I mean, we kind of have to bounce back and forth in the timeline. And here we are now, you know, you teach some classes and at one point you were teaching a lot of classes at the school. And the only reason you're teaching fewer classes is because you're teaching other classes. You're a math teacher. In a high school? Yes. Okay.
Jeremy (08:41.178)
I'm remembering things well, I'm proud of myself. When did you realize you enjoy teaching? So I was asked if I wanted to start assisting with classes, I think probably around 14. I think I did things like leading stretches and things a little earlier than that.
I can remember at the first location doing some of that after I got my black belt. So I know it had to be before that, but I'm not sure exactly when. I just enjoy, and I'm not sure when it clicked for me exactly, but I do enjoy the idea of helping somebody else reach that level of understanding, helping them get through.
Jeremy (09:30.938)
But that's one thing I enjoy about teaching is watching other people get it.
Jeremy (09:38.06)
Satisfaction knowing that it helped him get there. That tracks, that makes sense. That lines up with your affinity for math, your teaching math, right? Getting it. Was that, now that being such a core part of who you are, and we know that in martial arts there are plenty of things that don't have a correct answer, and knowing your instructor, I know that he, maybe even more than a lot of others, leaves some leeway for personal expression with,
in what you do. Was that challenging? Do ever get stuff where, you know, do I do it this way or that way? And he'd say, yes. You know, one of those. I think a little bit early on, I did, I would say eventually start to say, okay, well, now I see where you're going with that. There are different ways that we can do this and any one of them could be right. Or at least several of them could be right, if not anyway.
And I'm at this point happy to see, and I know math, so on one side of it where I teach math, it's so like, a lot of it is there's one answer, or sometimes two, and you have to get that answer. But I think it's opened me up a little bit with that as far as different people have different ways of getting to that answer. So it ties in there where you might have different ways of reaching the same result, but as long as it's a way that you understand. And then with martial arts.
often I'm just happy to see, okay, where are you taking that? Where are you going with it? Can I tweak this a little bit to get you there a little bit easier than the way you were? Are there little things that I can tweak, but I'm not gonna change where you're going? All right. So you're starting to teach at 14, which is also around the time that people start asking you, what do you wanna be when you grow up? Was it always, I wanna be a teacher? No.
I actually went to school for engineering. I have an engineering degree. What? I didn't know that. Okay. Yeah, I got a degree in computer engineering. And...
Jeremy (11:46.746)
I didn't get any job offers right out of college. And then we had some family things that it was better that I was only teaching martial arts at the time. I had a little more flexible schedule to be able to assist with things that my dad and my brother were going through, help my mom out in handling that. And so that stayed consistent through when the pandemic hit, actually. And.
after that, so the first school year that everybody was all back in person. My mom's best friend was also a teacher in the same district that she taught in for 30 years. Your mom was a teacher? Was a teacher? Yeah, she taught for four years. She worked for 30 years in New Brigham Port and one of her friends...
who just retired had gotten a request from her friends to be her sub while she was out on medical leave. And she was technology teacher. She did a lot of CAD and things along those lines. And so my mom's friend said, well, I don't know how to use any of that. And she consulted with her son who's an engineer who I've worked with. And he said, well, mommy wouldn't be able to figure that out in time for the school year probably.
and she thought, well, I know somebody who probably does know that if he's interested in doing it. So she got that teacher in contact with me and I ended up being her sub for the year. Okay. So during that time I got my teaching certification and got my license and I got my license in math because I was told the technology test was apparently something that...
was really difficult even if you knew your stuff because of how varied it was as far as different things they pulled from different areas. So you could really know your stuff in one area and they'd pull something from another area for the test and you might not have any knowledge of that. So she said, go for that and then you can take that later if you want, but at least then you'll have something. Okay.
Jeremy (13:42.298)
So that's how I got into teaching math. All right, so what I think is most surprising to me, I know, you know, so Tashi Dev Mahoney, who has been on this show, was a school teacher her entire career. And I understand that you have a number of other public school teachers. Yes, middle school art teacher, middle school science teacher. We have an elementary school teacher. You're surrounded by school teachers. So I had always assumed that you just,
all these teachers and then you say your mother was a teacher I was like oh okay this makes sense but that it had been in the back of my mind as an option but it wasn't something that was at the forefront oh I really want to do this okay what was it about computer engineering that I'm going there okay I've always pretty much ever since I did I did a lot of job classes in high school and I enjoyed all of those I enjoyed making things building things I always as a kid enjoyed seeing how things worked and that ties into martial arts as well of course
I remember I'd go on some kid rides at an amusement park and I'd be looking down at the gears and seeing how all of it operated when I was maybe six years old. Yeah. So that's always been something that I've been interested in and then I got more to the electrical computer side of things because that track at the college that I went to is the same for the first two and a half years and then it branches a little bit. Okay.
found that I enjoyed programming as I went through as well. And so that's where the computer part comes in, the logic, using logic gates, all that. My senior project was basically building a processor from the ground up. Oh, nice. Like in physical form or? Digitally. I'd done one in physical form, maybe not ground up, but like taking each of the parts and putting them I still have the breadboard, it's about that big. Yeah.
for those of you listening, it was like four hertz.
Jeremy (15:44.666)
but we took an entire semester to build and program it. It was a lot of fun. That's awesome. That's awesome. I've always loved doing that. My degree is in computer science. Okay, yeah. I did not, after I got into it, I did not have quite the same positive experience. That's the difference in computer science in the early 2000s. It was, okay, write code all the time and only code.
Jeremy (16:14.51)
And that was one thing one of my professors used to say is you have the best of both worlds because you get the hardware side with all the electrical and you get the software and you get the integration. The hardware is far more fun. Yeah. Okay. I enjoyed both of them.
Jeremy (16:30.01)
One of the things that I find interesting when I talk to anybody, it's a lot of the things that we develop in martial arts through our training, it's obvious what we bring into maybe our careers, right? So I would imagine you're more patient than a lot of people, you, because of your background, teaching students on the floor where often you've got to come up with six, eight different ways to teach the same thing in the same class, you probably have those skills
transfer to the classroom. What about the other way? What about what you've picked up in being a school teacher that you bring back to your martial arts and or your martial arts classes? I think presence in the class and being able to command the room, which you'd think is something that I would have probably had a little more of teaching martial arts. But somehow.
not quite the same. It's tougher with a class of 20 something 14 year olds. It's different. Martial arts at that point, almost every kid wants to be there. You're teaching in public school where that is not the case. And they often let me know. Yeah.
And you have to use different techniques, different tactics, because I don't have the physical aspect of it where I can have them do a certain thing or ask them to do something in a certain way to get their attention, to get them focused. I have to do it while they're in their seats. So a lot of different skills for retaining their attention in that way. Do you have strategies around that that you wouldn't mind sharing? Anything specific?
top of my head there isn't a whole lot I can think of. I know wait time is a tricky one. I know you use it a lot. Because I've seen you use it. And that's something I'm trying to get better at in the classroom as well because sometimes they just won't stop talking. Where you just stop and wait. And eventually they shut up because they realize, oh wait, that noise we were trying to talk over is gone. Something is different. What's happening?
Jeremy (18:32.866)
Assuming of course that they do recognize your authority. Yes, it works better for some than others. On the younger side obviously for a teacher, so sometimes that authority isn't as recognized.
Overall, it's been helpful. Do your students know that you train? Yes. In fact, actually, a couple of them about a month or so ago managed to find the school's YouTube channel. And so they went through that and found a video of me doing a staff form from about eight years back. And for whatever reason, they keyed in on that. Has that been?
Because let's be honest, anybody who has been in high school knows that the default setting for a group of high school students is to mock everything. It doesn't matter what it is. Once in a while you get an exception and it's never been the things that I thought would be the exception, but everything is mocked mercilessly. Even if you're a teacher, maybe not to your face, but they're mocking it behind your back. What is their response been just knowing you train and finding those videos?
I think that's been a little bit of mocking, but in general I think they find it pretty cool. Okay. And I've had some questions about things that I've been happy to answer. Oh, all right. There have been a couple of kids who asked me to demonstrate things on them and I said, no thanks, I'd like to keep my job. But overall it's been pretty positive. Nice. Aside from the couple classes that it derailed when they first found out.
Jeremy (20:02.33)
I'm wondering if there are ways in a non -touch way you can bring some of that into the classroom. I don't know. I might.
I might have to figure something out someday as a reward for them. I might show them a couple of videos of me doing different things because I have a lot more videos than what's on the YouTube channel. Me doing things. I film myself doing pretty much all of my forms just as a record for myself. And you've done a bunch of competition, right? Yeah, so I have videos of that as well because I've had people who've been kind enough to film me. So I have plenty of material that I could show them to have to find the right timing for it. Now you said that initially there were some
derailment as they found this stuff. Can you talk about that? Well, they all have a MacBook. So they all have laptops all the time and trying to keep those away is a struggle at times. And when they get to independent work, I usually look and take them out because they have some online work that they can be doing. And with that comes some derailment there. Sure. And just the questions in the middle of me trying to teach.
So they'll ask me questions about martial arts as I'm trying to teach them about math. It doesn't quite, it's not the best time. Got it. So their sense of timing is not always the best.
So if we think about where you're at, I don't like to make a big deal about age versus rank and time training and experience, but I think we have to kind of acknowledge that here, that 20 years you're 27? Yeah. 27 is fairly young to have 20 years of doing anything. And...
Jeremy (21:51.386)
you know, my situation, I'm older than you, but I started almost the same time, a little bit younger, but at that point, you know, seven, four, six, right? Like you're splitting hairs at that point. It's something that I, I sometimes have a hard time wrapping my head around this idea that I'm 44 and I've been doing something for 40 years. Do you have the same thought? You're 27 and you've been doing something for 27 years? Yeah, and some of it, uh,
It'll hit me when kids talk about their age and I go, oh, I've been training longer than you, or I've been a black belt longer than you've been alive. And that's, right, it's weird. Yeah. And a lot of the people that I train with, like even some of the younger adults at this point, I've still been training longer than they've been alive. And that's weird. And I can only imagine how Touch Mark feels about all that. Right.
I get it a little bit. There are some people that I train with who were only a few months old when I started. That's how I remember how old they are. Does that, as you contemplate that, does that make you think about the future? You're not gonna stop. I don't see you stopping training. Yeah, and exactly. And I was...
I think the most that I've really contemplated it was around the time that I was in college and I wasn't sure, okay, where am I gonna end up after this? Because you were open to going elsewhere. I keep training, but I'd have to figure all of that out as far as if I went somewhere else. You've been at one school from day one. Wow, that'd be really weird. So I'm glad it came to pass that I'm still at the same school. Did you train through college?
Whenever I was back on breaks, yeah. They had a martial arts club at the school that I was at for the first couple years, but they didn't have an advisor. They couldn't get a professor to advise it, so it fell apart after. And the advisor they had before that apparently was very close -minded, so the students weren't sad to see him go, but they were sad to see nobody replace him. So I did a little bit with them the first couple years. Or really softly, because I don't think I even knew it existed freshman year.
Jeremy (24:07.866)
That doesn't speak well. No, it was. Well, I think that was the last year of that other. So the sophomore year was the year that it ran. It was purely student run and then they couldn't find an advisor, so it had to. Let's talk about your training because. Your your curriculum is interesting in that it has. A few distinct components that.
are, my understanding from the outside, are acknowledged as being different, but are connected and at times trained together. Is that a fair way to put it? Yeah. Talk about that. So we train bringing Sakthi, which is a style of Harmao Silat from Indonesia. We train Dikitertia Seratus Kali from the Philippines. We train another Maitis Kung Fu and we train Chilling Kung Fu with a little bit of Wing Chun thrown in there.
So, and then we also have kickbox classes. And so we tie in, a lot of it tends to be tying in the Breaking Socky with some of the Chinese arts, which might sound odd, but a lot of...
I think you said it and I actually said it independently of you. There are only so many ways that the body can move effectively. I'm not the first person to say that. I think a lot of us come to that same conclusion. So there's a lot of overlap in those styles because they all independently found things that work and a lot of those things that work overlap.
There's a lot of fluidity in all four of those styles. I can see. I think the trickiest thing is with the brachiosoccal, a lot of the stances tend to be with the heel up, with the back heel up. And so trying to teach the kids, well, this time you have the heel up and this time you're doing leaning stance, the heel is down. I think that's one of the trickier things for them. Yeah. But.
Jeremy (26:03.244)
Other than that, I think a lot of it does flow together nicely. Like I do a shell in snake form where I drop to the ground in basically resting stance the same way, lady stance, the same way that you would drop for C -Lows and Bergen's octet. So a lot of the motions translate in that sense. There are a couple of...
the form that Touchy Dev taught for training day has a motion in it that we also do in bringing Sockty that has that kick, the legs come up and around to switch sides while you're on the ground. So that's mantis, but it's also bringing Sockty. So there's some translation there. A lot of the Kali translates to our blade line in the Chinese arts. So using broadsword, you're cutting at the same angles.
helps to show some of the applications of you might be doing with those forms.
teaching you, you're not necessarily online the whole time, you have to get offline and defend. So there are a lot of overlap. If I was to find a way to go back 10, 15 years and have younger Tim rank, let's call it the four styles, would you rank them the same today? Do you think of them the same? Do you enjoy them in the same way?
Well, I know Collie wouldn't be ranked as high. And Collie wouldn't be ranked as high because it's only been about...
Jeremy (27:38.106)
three, maybe three and a half years that we've been training directly with Grandmaster Nana. Oh, really? Okay. That started in the fall of 2020. Okay. That was a pandemic thing. Yeah, we started, that was what was the catalyst for that. Okay. We started doing Zoom classes with him. And that was originally just Tashi, Mark and me, and we've grown it so we now have on a good night, seven people that are So where was that curriculum, that college curriculum coming in from? That had been coming from...
So we had known him through martial arts research institute in Salem. So that was where we had originally started with the Harmo and the Kali because they had the connections with Gurudwara Libi and Garamastri. Alright, okay.
and then we slowly formed those connections independently of them as well. Tasha Mark had gone over to the Philippines, he'd gone over to Indonesia a few times. There's a piece in a story I know that now I get it, that I know you're being diplomatic about and we're not gonna go there, but there's a - So that's how we got introduced to status. Got it.
Okay, so Kali wouldn't have been as high as you've gotten to experience it more, you enjoy it more? Yes, I enjoy it more and the direct training with the Grandmaster of the system is... You can't beat that. Maybe I could if I was doing it in person, but for the circumstances for him being halfway around the world, pretty good. Three times a week training with him. Is that your favorite part, the Kali? I think I would still say it's probably the Mantis. Why?
I love doing the forms, I love how dynamic some of them are. I actually transitioned to one of those being my tournament form. That tends to be the style that we end up with a lot of the weapons as well and I've come to really enjoy doing the broadsword. You like forms? Yeah. Oh yeah. Me too.
Jeremy (29:41.114)
So I think that's part of why that one's so high up. And then just being able to tie everything into all, well, you can tie everything into everything else. So that part's a little bit of a wash as far as which one's my favorite. But.
I would say probably the Mendes, Colley, but it's all really close. Trying to actually give a definitive ranking and stuff. And I would imagine after this much time, it starts to get a little blurry. Yeah. Right? You you gave the example of that back heel coming up or not coming up, right? I don't know. I've played with, I've taken some of my forms. You know, I grew up with.
very different karate styles trained and kind of thrown together. And I've done the Isshin -ru forms with the Japanese, more Japanese philosophy and vice versa. And it's kind of interesting, I guess, when you've done some of the same stuff, even if maybe not intentionally. I'm just looking at our time. Yeah.
Yeah, and it's been so.
I think one good example, I had a class a couple of Fridays ago where I had one person who strictly does kickboxing and I had another student and they were the only two in the class who came to us from a Taekwondo school who's been training all of the styles with us but hadn't done much kickboxing. So was thinking, okay, well, how can I make this class work for both of them? How can I tie things in? That's problem. Yeah, so that was, it was an interesting class. What did you do? I pulled, I started off with kickboxing warmup and tried to keep it,
Jeremy (31:22.106)
a little familiar for the kickboxer. I didn't know the Taekwondo student could hang with that pretty quickly. And he, especially where he had come into a school where he hadn't done any of the arts that we do, he was pretty open to whatever I wanted to do. Cool. Also helps that he's about 17. So he was... He's adaptable. Yeah.
And I went into some applications out of kickboxing. So we have these moves in the kickboxing form that we do that you start with. The only requirement is that you have the whole thing by the time you reach or you go for your black belt. And so I took some applications out of that form and tried to tie them into what our regular curriculum would have been for the non kickboxing students. I think it was bringing sock to that day, so I took some things and tried to tie them in that way.
But it was a fun problem to try to figure out how can I make this work for both of them in a way that neither one feels terribly uncomfortable, might be a little out of their comfort zone, which is a good thing, but not so far out of it that they're going, what are we doing? It's a, I mean, to people out there who don't teach classes, a good instructor does that every class, right? But you usually have more students, so you have...
These are fun overlap. Yeah, yeah, maybe maybe you know out of 20 people you're. I want to say hanging two of them out to drive, but OK, you know there's 20 people here. 18 of them definitely need this and I need to go in this direction and so they're getting maybe more time more focused than those two. Cause you can only split time in so many ways. But I like that example. That's that's really cool. Nice. What about your own training?
So I train, and I know I actually got a star for this at MEDIC too. I'm there seven days a week. Really? I am. Seven. I'll be there tonight for a class with Nene. Is that... Is that always an easy decision?
Jeremy (33:18.65)
Not always. There are some days and there are some times that I'll take it's usually turns out to be a Wednesday because that's the day that I do the least. And then I'll say I'm exhausted. I need a night or I have this thing that's going to run right up against where I only get home at 5 .30 and I have to be there at 6 .30 and I still have to eat and decompress from whatever I was doing before that. So sometimes it'll be six days. Oh no.
But part of it is it's just a routine at this point. So I'm used to it. It's not as overwhelming as it might be for someone who generally only trains two days a week to go up to seven. Obviously, I don't think I've ever trained less than maybe three or four days a week. Even when I was really young, we still got there about three times a week, I think.
and then through high school was working around sports and things so sometimes it might have been a day less than What sports did you do in high school? I ran cross country. I ran cross country and track. I've done every distance on a track except the 400. And I don't mind that. 400's the worst. Yeah. That seems to be the general consensus. Yeah. It's the world's longest sprint if you're good at it. Although I say that enjoying the 800.
Jeremy (34:38.18)
Although 800 is my best distance, relatively to what other people run. I was a hurdler. Oh, okay. Because just running was boring. I needed to do something while I was doing it. The only three track events I never did were either the hurdles or just the 400. And I've actually done the 400 in a relay once.
Really? Yeah. I ran relay a couple times because they were short of person. Yeah, that was how it turned out. I got on the bus thinking I was doing the full way. Somebody's On the bus I was told I was also doing the four by four and then halfway through the meet I was told I was also doing the four by 200 for state relays. I think they stuck me on the four by 100 once.
I started out as a sprinter because I had a friend who did it who I was in scouts with. Yeah. And so I jumped in and I did sprinting because he did sprinting and then I did cross country because he did cross country and then by junior year I switched to distance. So that was how I covered all of everything from 100 to 2 mile.
So, and anybody that's been a track athlete knows that other than the relays, which you can make an argument that they're not even that different, there's something really similar in that you can say about martial arts and track and that it is an individual sport done in a group. Right.
Jeremy (35:56.474)
Is that is the fact that you ended up in? Probably the only other sport you can really say. I mean, you could say that maybe about tennis or golf, but. I ran track. I've seen plenty of track teams. I've talked to track athletes. It tends to attract. Let's say some unconventional athletes. Yes, people rarely say, you I'm deciding whether I'm going to join the soccer team, join the football team or run track.
Jeremy (36:30.106)
It's interesting with both because there's a lot of support and it's where you're able to support each other because you're not necessarily doing the same thing at the same time. Like I had my events, I'd run and then I'd go support everybody else doing theirs.
similar with tournaments where I'm and even now I'm still there for mine for my own events. But in the meantime, I'm all over the place. So there's an element of similarity with that. Also with the difference like track you have your running events, you have your throwing events, you have all the jumping. So there's variety there in terms of.
what different people are doing, you might not necessarily know how they do it, but you can still appreciate the skill that goes into it. And I think that also translates to martial arts and tournaments where I might not know the style that somebody's doing, but I can recognize their ability in it.
I can recognize a good stance is a good stance. I can see power in strikes, things like that. Even if I don't do it, I can understand it and respect it or understand what it took to be able to do that. So that ties in. Did you do any other sports? No. No. No, that's right. There's a lot of crossover somehow between, maybe it's just because so many kids end up doing soccer, right? I think it's just, especially younger.
Organize chaos. Yeah, I suppose I played the league. I did soccer from kindergarten to second grade. Yeah. So I had a little bit of that, but not enough to say I did it. All right. So what do you think is is next? Do you are you going to open a school one day or are you are you going to? What do you do? You've got so many years ahead of you.
Jeremy (38:30.33)
Not 100 % sure. So I know, obviously I'm gonna continue teaching math as long as the, one more year before I attain professional status and that'll be It's a pretty good gig. Yeah, yeah, that'll be nice. Teaching math, keep teaching martial arts as much as I can in the afternoons and evenings. And even now where officially I only teach.
There's a class Friday night and then there's a junior class Saturday mornings, but half the classes that I'm in, it's a 50 -50 whether I'm gonna end up participating in the class or assisting with it or a bit of both. So there's a little bit of, even when I'm not teaching and teaching. Let's take a tangent and talk about that because one of the things that can become an issue for someone who's been training for a long time, and I would imagine that...
you are at the point in your journey that of the styles that you train within your curriculum, you know the material and you are now refining the material. I'm guessing there aren't forms you don't know in these curriculum.
We'll say that now. Curriculum through Black Belt, I definitely know I have that down. Forms beyond that, I, like there's occasionally, like right now I'm working on a Daisoji form, which is, for those who might not know, basically a shorter Kung Fu staff, it's got a joint and then almost like a Okay, so there is some new stuff that you're still So there there are like some weapons forms and there are some new things that I might not necessarily know. But for the most part, you're right, it's refining what I have. So how do you balance -
because as you get further along, it takes more and more time to maintain what you know and to continue to improve. How do you balance that responsibility to yourself of getting better with responsibility to your school and the students that are there with helping them get better? Well, one nice thing is that...
Jeremy (40:29.338)
All the forms they're working on are things that I know. So I get my practice with those as I'm jump in with them. Yes. And so if I'm in the class more working on it, then I'll practice it. And otherwise, if I'm helping them to learn it, then I'm helping myself to practice it. So I'm learning as I'm teaching and practicing as I'm teaching. And then that's another reason that I film every form or as many as I can find time to film of all the things that I've learned over the years. And I started doing that when I was in college. I think the first time I did it was the summer before.
for my senior year, I had about half a dozen that I wanted to make sure I had because I knew I wouldn't have the time or space necessarily to practice in college that I'd like to have. So I wanted to make sure I had a reference to go back and say, okay, I'm You film yourself doing your forms as a reference in case you forgot stuff on it later. That, I have not heard that before. I've heard people filming for self -critique, and we'll come back to that because I'm guessing you're doing that as well. Yeah. I've heard people...
filming for other people but the idea, hey I feel like I've kind of got this down or I do have this down but I'm not gonna have the time. That's a really cool idea because I think there are a lot of people out there who they go to seminars, they go, they train with other people and they pick up some stuff but it's not gonna, it's never gonna be core to what they do. Building your own reference library, that...
That's blowing my mind. I'm loving that. Especially what I tend to focus on for that, like I haven't filmed a lot of forms that are in our white belt, black belt curriculum because I do those all the time. And we actually have, I am filmed doing those on the YouTube page because we did that during COVID. We wanted to make sure that people had a reference that they could access because we weren't as available right there for them. Sure.
So all those are filmed anyway, and half of them, it's me that's doing the four. So in a sense, I am. Those are the videos that your students found. Yeah. And then, but a lot of the ones that, like you said, aren't necessarily core to what I do. So I have, I don't know how many forms. Between the four styles. Dozens? There are a lot. Yeah, definitely dozens. And so some of the ones that I might not get to as often, I especially want to film because I want to make sure that I have that.
Jeremy (42:55.258)
I want to make sure I have that reference because I know that I'm not going to have practice 40 forms. So if I can rotate through them, just keep them kind of fresh, but I have that reference of this is how it should be done and I can go back and if I need to pull that one out and focus on it, I can do that. It's such an important way to address that because...
You know, it can be easy with a simpler curriculum to say, work on everything all the time. But when you have a broader curriculum, or in this case, really four, and if we want to be nerdy curricula, right? If we want to use the correct Latin here, everything can't be the top priority. So the ability to say, to acknowledge the reality of, I'm going to have to put this form down from time to time, but I want to set myself up for the best.
way to pick it back up and get back into it and make some movements and effort with it quickly. I like that.
Are you, I'm guessing that when you film you're also reviewing those and saying here's where I need to improve this, that, the other. Oh yeah, definitely and I'll do a good half dozen takes because I'll go through it and I'll look at it and say well I don't like that, I wanna fix it. Especially now.
if I decide to post any of those forms at any point, those I wanna make sure are really solid. Like some of them, and especially some of the earlier ones, I was a little bit more relaxed about, okay, this might not have been perfect, but it's enough to give me the idea. I didn't have a whole lot of time to film this, so it's enough to get me through it. But now if I do it, I really make sure it's really solid, because then I can take it and I can use it for me, but I can also post it in the chair. So.
Jeremy (44:51.898)
I think, and I know I've said it on the show, but I think the self of, where's mine? It's over there, is the most underrated, underutilized martial arts training tool. Because most of us, I mean, you teach people, you are trained to look for where people are deficient in their movement.
And how do you do that with yourself? I mean, pre -cell phone we would use mirrors, but guess what? You really can't watch yourself in a mirror while you're doing things for real. But you can film it on a phone. The last time I competed, which was eight, 10 years ago, eight years ago, I prepped in two training sessions.
probably a total of an hour because of my phone. I was blown away because prior to that, it had been 10 years since I'd competed and things had come a long way. We had video on cell phones then, 20 years ago, but it was a flip phone and it was this big. And even if you did have the cable to get it over to the computer, by the time you enlarged it, you couldn't see it because it was 12 pixels, it was so blurry.
But to do it and to go back and watch and go, okay, I'm gonna fix ABC and go back, do it again. Yes, I fixed that. Okay, this one still needs some work and now this and chh, chh, chh, and then do it a few more times and really lock those things in is such a valuable way of training that I think people don't appreciate. Do you think you'll...
Did you come up with the idea to film your stuff yourself? Or did somebody encourage you? I came up with that and that was inspired by going back to school and knowing that I wasn't gonna have time to practice. So things like I had a double broadsword form that I really liked that I actually competed with. And I used that video to train myself back up on that before I competed with it a month or two ago. That video from? From eight, nine years ago? have been 2017.
Jeremy (47:09.174)
Okay, seven years ago? Yeah. So I was able to use that to turn myself back up and maybe refine some things that weren't as precise then. But so I had that form. I had a couple other forms that I had learned like over the summer that I knew because especially one of them that I know I just learned over that summer, I knew wasn't going to stick if I didn't film it.
I think there's something else and maybe as a teacher you can speak to this. I don't know this for sure, but I would theorize that because it's you watching you, right? Like you can't hide and you have to accept it for what it is, especially if you're the one that did the filming, right? Like, you know, this isn't CGI. This isn't a deep fake. I filmed myself doing this and this is where I'm at. And I think you accept that reality.
Sooner I've used video to show people Yes, you are moving in that way and that is incorrect and now I have proof and they go oh And they just there's something about that Easier acceptance of the reality, right? Yeah, because something is not you telling them. It's them seeing oh, I am doing that Yeah, so there's no oh, well, you just saw you think you saw this
One of the coolest things I've seen, and someday if I have a full -time school with a, you know, actually like the shout out to Nathan Porter, Rising Storm Martial Arts for hosting us today, it was when I was doing parkour, and the parkour classes were in a gymnastics space, and they had a camera set up with a seven second delay.
So somebody could do beam or vault and they use it primarily on vault because vault is quick. You know, they run down the track, boom, boom, boom, hit the block, land, and they immediately could turn and look and watch what they did. And it was just that constant seven second delay. So there was no, yeah, the coach could be involved, but if you know what you need to work on based on your observation, then that coach, that instructor can be so much more useful.
Jeremy (49:27.34)
to so many more people. And how cool would that be to have that kind of constantly running on maybe a 60 second delay if you're doing forums or 90 seconds, right? You can tweak it based on what you're doing. Then everybody can watch and go, oh.
Oh, right. I think initially there'd be a lot of, yeah, I don't want to do this, but I just, I think that would make a big difference. If anybody out there does that, that you have that running on that console, I want to hear about because I want to talk to you about it. Okay. So you, you, you don't know where things are going to take you, but are you, do you have ideas? Are you dreaming of it? Like, so I'm not sure I would ever open.
And at this point, I'm not sure I would open the school just because I know the time and energy commitment, that would be a full time, probably a full time at F4 everything. And I'm not sure that that's something that I would be, I'd be afraid that I might come to resent that that's, that would be everything. And I don't want to resent it. So that's, that's the big thing that would kind of stop me from opening school.
because you really do. Like, Tysham Mark pours everything into that school and he's perfectly happy to do that. I've tried to get him to get a hobby. And it's a rare thing to be able to do that. Yeah, and it's impressive. He doesn't do hobbies. He's like, all my hobbies are martial arts. I just do more martial arts. But it's a rare person who can do that. Yeah. And I don't think I'm one of them. I do have other things and I like to have other things. And if I have other things, then I can't put everything into that. I think it's so important to recognize the reality of that because I think a lot of us end up
on this track, it's, it's assumed that you train for awhile.
Jeremy (51:23.13)
you weren't high enough rank, you start teaching classes, and you do that for long enough that you have to go off and open your own school. And I don't think you have to. I think you can. And I think that teaching is important because I think it furthers your own education. I know you know that. You probably know math better than you ever did because you're teaching it, as well as martial arts. But I, it...
I don't think it has to be automatic. What are the other things that consume your time and attention? I still dabble in coding. A couple years back, I started trying to teach myself Python. Because most of what I did in college was C. Or C++. They went back to C. When I was in college, it was Java. I did Java in high school. That was my AP computer science class. So that was my introduction to coding.
I did not enjoy Java. I enjoyed C much more. Yeah, so there's a little bit of that.
Obviously the teaching math as well because that's my profession. That's what I primarily do. Martial arts. I haven't been on a hike in a while, but I love hiking. When I was in scouts, that was something that as when I was younger and probably had to do with just not being used to it, not having stamina for it. I wasn't a huge fan of, but as I got to about high school or so, I started to enjoy the hikes a lot more. And so that's something I haven't done in ages that I'd love to get back to doing a couple of years at least.
I like hiking too and I could say the same thing that I don't hike as much. I made a commitment last year I was gonna hike once a month. I hiked three times. So it didn't happen. Maybe it was four times. But the app All Trails, it's a great app if anybody out there likes hiking. And you can probably find trails that you didn't know existed closer to your house. Yeah and there are some that like...
Jeremy (53:28.698)
You've met Katah and she's been on the show actually with a couple others. She knows a lot of the trails around Ipwich. Oh cool. And so I've gone on a couple, like walking through Willowdale State Fort, Bradley Palmer, some closer by.
more recently. So I've started to learn some of the ones that are closer. I used to do, there's an Audubon trail near where I grew up. That we used to walk all the time when I was a kid. So I've done that a couple times. So I've done it a little bit, just not. You ever train outside? Yeah. In fact, actually that's where those first videos were. Oh really? Backyard of my house was my mom filming.
outside is the best. It really is. If you've never trained outside, just the energy is so different. And especially on irregular ground, wearing shoes, and you start to go, hey, this is a lot more difficult, but also, hey, this is probably how it would be if I had to use this. And that was one thing, especially filming those. Going back and watching them, I go, yep, that was uneven ground. But.
It's definitely good to adjust and have to have to adjust to that footing because even just the lawn in my backyard was uneven versus say I'm on a trail. That's a lot more uneven. And I'm fortunate with all that running experience. I'm pretty good at running and hiking. I'm pretty good at maintaining my footing.
So I'm fortunate in that sense, but it's still a whole different animal.
Jeremy (55:14.746)
So one of the things that we've done today is we've kind of bounced forward and back, and it's pretty common for our episodes. We bounce forward and back in the timeline. So let's imagine, you know, there's a, we find a time machine over there in that leading room, and you get to go back to, maybe not your first few classes, but I'm gonna guess like in that 12, 13, 14 year old timing, and you get to sit down with yourself and talk about...
You know, yeah, probably life and your career, but let's kind of focus a little bit on the martial arts side of it. What would you tell yourself?
One thing probably would be to pay a little more attention, not pay more attention to my teachers in the sense of I wasn't paying attention to that because I absolutely was, but pay attention to how they did things. Start that a little earlier. Like their teaching methods? Yeah, start to understand their process of how they did things a little bit earlier. Maybe start filming myself earlier. I was wondering if you were going to say that because...
Well, we do, while Taishamark does have some records dating back about that far, it's not maybe as many as he certainly, he's certainly got much more of an online presence now. And I'm sure you've had a hand in that, and thank you for that. So thank you for that. Jeremy's very good at that. Any schools out there want help with their social media? It's not a thing that we talk about often, but it is a thing that we do.
So maybe, yeah, start to film. And granted, at that point, it would probably be with a video camera and not a cell phone because... A video camera? Remember the monster ones it took? You're old enough to remember, right? It took full VHS tape. Yeah. So...
Jeremy (57:11.576)
Pay more attention to the teachers, film myself a little more.
Jeremy (57:19.706)
I don't know, I competed a lot back then, so I wouldn't, so as far as saying maybe try to get into more competitions, I was doing a lot of competing then as well. I was on the demonstration team, so I was doing a lot with that. I wouldn't have imagined there would be a lot of big changes. Yeah, not so many big changes.
Jeremy (57:38.106)
maybe try to look for some of the similarities between different things that I was doing. Because that's something that also I don't think happened really till maybe later in high school. Just a lot of those things that come with more experience than I would have figured out, but maybe not that young. Sure.
Jeremy (58:00.25)
If people want to get a hold of you. I mean, we can, this is the time we can throw out the school social media and website and stuff too, but also what about reaching you directly? As far as reaching me directly, I have a martial arts Instagram page.
Jeremy (58:18.842)
Admittedly, it's recent enough that I don't actually have the handle number. Okay. We'll just get it over, we'll drop it in the show notes. Yeah. That's probably the best because, yes, I have a Facebook page. I've tried to privatize that a lot because school teacher. I understand.
I have, so I do have social media that I keep private for that reason, but the martial arts one I keep public. So that's probably the best way. Okay. Drop that in there. In the school page. Yeah, the school page. Mark Warner PMA .com. Yeah. And there's links to the YouTube page there so you can watch all those videos I was talking about. Of me and of others doing all sorts of things. It's a really good reference.
There's Apparel. That's a recent addition. There's a new website coming soon too. Oh, yeah. This is the thing I've been working on. Eventually, but not always right away. That's good to know. But it's a good reference.
And then school has all sorts of Instagram, Facebook. I think he has TikTok. I'm not sure how much he's so close to that. He's got all sorts of... Tashi likes social media. He does. He likes to get out there and connecting with people. Yeah. If there's a social media site, he probably has something there.
Well, I think you know how we close. What do you want to tell people?
Jeremy (59:51.098)
If you haven't, obviously if you're watching this you probably train. If for some reason you don't or you've gotten out of it, it might be worth trying to get back in, find something local school that has something that interests you. Give it five minutes. Film yourself with your formals.
as a reference, help improve, help remember them, especially if you, like me, have a lot of them that you're trying to remember and you have trouble with that. I know Tasha Devoe says my memory is great. A lot of that, some of that is my memory. Some of that is what I do to be able to remember them if it doesn't stay in my brain. So definitely use that as a resource. I'd say those are the big... And...
One thing we didn't touch, I kind of touched on it with saying the different things that I've done, but if you have a lot of things like I was doing in high school, cross -country track, scouts, martial arts, if you're having trouble balancing those, if you find that, talk to your coaches, talk to your instructors about how to try to manage that so that you can maintain, and maybe you are doing too much, but try to maintain.
that communication to be able to say, I might not be able to do this, but I can do this. Some is better than none. Yeah. Because that was a big thing for me getting through high school. And it's something we didn't quite talk about, but it's definitely an important one, especially for any younger people watching this who might have a lot more things going on like that. Yeah. Well said.
Maybe we'll have to do a part two or we'll, you know, that's actually not a bad subject. Maybe we'll do an episode on balancing martial arts with other aspects of your life. I don't know where Andrew is. I think he's going, he's picking up the next guest. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for being here. The thank you and the, what feels like the goodbyes feels a little hollow, because I'm going to see you in two weeks at most.
Jeremy (01:02:04.666)
Right? But to all of you out there, thank you. Thank you for being here. If you're new, remember whistlekick .com. Shout out and thank you to Kataro, K -A -T -A -A -R -O .com for their sponsorship of this episode. Use the code WK10 to save 10 % on your first order. If you're a school owner, make sure you sign up for a wholesale account. Check out their great belts and sashes. And I would challenge any of you to come up with an idea for a belt.
that is actually a belt that they can't put together. In fact, let's do this. If you can come up with a reasonable belt, something that, you know, not like, I want suspenders, but you know, a reasonable martial arts belt or sash that one would wear and Kotaro can't make it. I'm going completely off script here. I'll give you a hundred bucks.
but you've gotta prove to me that it would make sense and Kataro can't do it. I have no idea if I'm gonna get in trouble for this, but we will find out. Remember you can follow us on social media, we're at Whistlekick, my email, jeremyatwhistlekick .com. Until next time, train hard, smile, and have a great day.