Episode 901 - Pressure Testing without Injury
In today’s episode Jeremy and Andrew discuss how to pressure test your techniques without getting hurt.
Pressure Testing without Injury - Episode 901
SUMMARY
In this episode, Jeremy and Andrew discuss the concept of pressure testing in martial arts training. They explore different levels of training, the importance of pressure testing, and the challenges it presents. They also discuss the value of controlled training, building trust in techniques, and balancing speed and power. The hosts emphasize the need to reduce the risk of injury and set parameters for training. They suggest using protective equipment, creating scenarios for pressure testing, and maintaining safety in training. They also discuss the role of competitions and the importance of overcoming fear and building confidence. The episode concludes with a reminder to gradually increase speed and force while identifying and working on individual limitations.
TAKEAWAYS
*Pressure testing is an important aspect of martial arts training to ensure techniques work in self-defense situations.
*Training should be conducted at different levels, balancing speed and power, to gradually build skills and confidence.
*Safety is crucial in pressure testing, and protective equipment can be used to reduce the risk of injury.
*Creating scenarios and setting parameters for training can help simulate real-world situations and improve performance.
*Overcoming fear and building confidence are essential in pressure testing, and competitions can be valuable for testing skills.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
01:53 Understanding Pressure Testing
03:26 Different Levels of Training
04:04 The Importance of Pressure Testing
05:01 Challenges of Pressure Testing
06:17 Building Trust in Techniques
07:38 The Value of Controlled Training
09:04 Balancing Speed and Power
10:32 Reducing the Risk of Injury
11:32 Setting Parameters for Training
12:26 Using Protective Equipment
13:24 Creating Scenarios for Pressure Testing
14:50 Maintaining Safety in Training
15:26 Overcoming Fear and Building Confidence
19:45 Using Heavy Bags and Foam Swords
20:27 Pressure Testing in Tactical Training
21:52 Competitions as Pressure Testing
22:22 Safe Sparring with Trust
23:25 Gradually Increasing Speed and Force
24:14 Identifying Limitations and Working on Them
25:28 Training with Natural Instincts
26:56 Conclusion
After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it. Don’t forget to drop them in the comment section down below
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Show Transcript
Jeremy (00:00.61)
What's up everybody? Welcome to another episode of Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio. Today's episode, Andrew and I are talking about the subject of pressure testing and how you can pressure test your skills, your techniques, while dramatically reducing the rate of injury. If you're new to this show, Andrew Adams, I'm Jeremy Lesniak.
Thank you for being here. We appreciate you. You're probably a martial artist. We're martial artists. And Whistlekick is a company for martial artists. In fact, our stated goal is to get everyone in the world to train. We're here to connect, educate, and entertain all of you out there. And if you want to be connected, educated, and entertained beyond this show, visit whistlekick .com for all the things that we have over there. Everything from protective equipment, which I'm sure will come into play at some point in our conversation today, to...
Apparel training programs. We've got whistle kick Alliance, which is our offering for martial arts schools. It's incredible offering. And if you have a school and you haven't checked it out, make sure you check it out. Whistle kick martial arts radio dot com is a place to go for the show or social media is at whistle kick. We're everywhere you search whistle kick. You're going to find us. And we do so many things that we can't even tell you about all of them in this intro. Otherwise, you will probably press stop. It's true. The.
The phrase pressure testing seemed to have come out of nowhere over the last few years. Yeah, not the concept, but the usage of that of that phrase. Yeah, absolutely. And I don't remember when I first saw people using it, but I'm seeing it even more now. And for those of you that might not be familiar with that phrase, the idea is how do we test our skills so we know that they work in a self -defense situation?
Without being in a self -defense situation. Yeah Yeah, and it's it's a an easy concept to understand but it's difficult to Get there I think yeah now, of course different people have different ideas of what pressure testing is we're not going to tell you what you should define it as where something is qualifying as pressure testing but I Think we can all agree we can see it as a spectrum
Jeremy (02:23.298)
On one end, we've got super chill, super light, gentle, you know, Andrew and I are still sparring.
Right? The risk of injury here is about zero. Yeah. As close to zero as it's going to get. In fact, maybe solo training, although I know some people who would hurt themselves. They go to kick and fall over. And then the other end is no rules, full contact, full speed, whether or not we know each other, we're going to make it a fight. Yep. I don't know anybody that trains out.
Most of us train somewhere in the middle. What we just demonstrated, that slow sparring, that's something most schools still do not do. It's something that I personally advocate for when I travel and give seminars. It is around the value of that and a whole bunch of other things related. But most of us train, if we consider a dial from zero to five in terms of speed and power, most of us are training in the two, three, four range. Yeah, on both.
I would say probably closer to the 3 -4 range. Most of the time, yeah.
Jeremy (03:34.242)
Now, not everyone trains for purposes of defending themselves. I know that might be a shock to some of you. Some people just don't care. That's not they do not see that that is something likely to happen to them. They train for a bunch of other reasons. It is not for us to tell people why they should train. That's part of the six freedoms of martial arts. Yep. First freedom. We're not going to tell you why to train. OK. But if you do train for purposes of wanting to defend yourself, you've probably posed the question.
Would this work? That was fun. And it's a valid question. And for a long time, the cliche dialogue would be instructor, but would this work? Yes, just keep practicing it. But how do I know it'll work? Trust me. Yeah, right. Now I'm not saying that most schools did that, but...
That's what a lot of folks in the modern traditional martial arts community have responded to when putting forward the concept of pressure testing. Because just being told, yes, this will work, if it's your first day, maybe first few months, maybe even your first year, we could make a case that that's a valid way to respond to that question, especially if it's something.
More risky if someone says how do I know that poking them in the eyes is going to work? How do I know that? You know breaking this elbow will incapacitate someone you've got to have an element of Trust that that will harm the person well enough that it's going to make a difference because you're probably not poking your friends and your training partners in the odds Now having said that intentionally I did a seminar with Ian Abernathy a number of years ago
few years, probably 2018 I think. And he talked about, he heard of, so this is all now, we're talking third -hand information, but it's funny to think about. Some, an instructor who would have students wear these special glasses with grapes, like glued to the outside of them so that you could actually like squish the grapes, which were like the eyeballs. Now, I don't know how true this story is.
Jeremy (05:58.338)
I hope it is. But it's really funny. I hope that's true. That's great. Shout out to Ian. Yeah. And maybe he was just saying it to be funny, in which case, good on ya, because that is really funny. But I could see it, right? I could make a case for the value.
Jeremy (06:17.666)
When you said poking eyeballs that was just the thing that popped out into my head was him telling this story. Trusting that things work. Yes, so if we If we want to get past okay, I trust that this is going to work I want to get somewhere closer to it and over time get close enough to it that I can feel like you know what I've done this in an intense enough environment that a street confrontation is not a huge step, but a step.
Mm -hmm, right because it's always going to be a step. It doesn't matter what your situation is in training. There is a difference between People trying to help you get better and people trying to harm you sure absolutely Yeah, I mean I can let's take the the the arm break for example like that. You know someone breaking the elbow like
I have never broken someone's elbow. I have never had my elbow broken. Me either. But I trust that if I, and I have to trust that if I'm holding the arm and I hit the elbow in a certain way with enough force, I have to trust that it will work. Because the alternative is the only way for me to really test that is, hey, can I have your arm? Let me break your arm. And let's find out like, I don't want to break your arm, you know? Right. And this is where,
You know, so we'll take a small detour. My instructors had a philosophy. My original instructors had this philosophy that there's kind of a sweet spot where, you if we're talking about this, these dials, you know, if you're getting into the three and a half range and just to explain them speed zero as you're stopped five, you're moving as fast as you possibly can. Technique breaks down. Four is the fastest you can move while having some reasonable technique strength.
the amount of force you're putting into things. You can't, you can do zero. Zero is where if I hit Andrew, he doesn't move, but my hand collapses. One, nothing happens. Two, he moves a little bit. Three, he can feel, actually that's three. I'm not going to hit him with four. Oh, you can, go ahead. Cause he's not going to enjoy it. No, that's right, go ahead. I don't want to. Five, again, technique breaks down and I've done everything I can. This is where if you see videos of people with the...
Jeremy (08:36.962)
The arcade boxing machine. Yep, right. That doesn't look like a martial arts technique, even if it's a martial artist. Yeah. You're just raw. You're just forcing through it. If you're in that three and a half range, you're not always going to be three and a half because we're not perfect. Right. Sometimes we miss three and a half is going to drift into four from time to time. You're going to slip. You're going to pop somebody once in a while. And oh, right. We've all had those shots.
And it's not fun. It doesn't feel good. But if you train long enough, you get and give enough shots that you start to trust, okay, I have an idea of what this is like. Yes. Now that was their philosophy. I'm not saying that's the right way or the best way or the way that you should do it. But it is a way. Because here's the reality. Most people don't want to train it for. That's right. Most people don't want to go to work with black eyes.
Most people don't want to walk in with limps. Most people don't like to harm other people. Yep. My arm doesn't have to be broken to be to need to be in a split, right? To have to wear, you know, something. It still could be hyperextended and still be a pain to deal with in my day to day life because I can't use it. I've had people that go too far on grappling stuff. And yeah, it hurts and it takes a few days to a few weeks to heal up properly.
And that's part of where I take my idea that, yeah, this stuff is going to work. But ultimately the subject here came in as a question to a past episode. And really they were, the question was focused around striking. How can we pressure test striking arts in a way that reduces or eliminates the risk of injury? Now, right off the bat, there's no way of eliminating the risk of injury. You can get pretty close. Yeah, it's still a con.
Even when it's not a contact sport, it's a contact. You know, and I don't care how good you are. I don't care how much control you have. I'm thinking of people that I know that have been training for a long time that have incredible control. And I've watched them slip because like anything else, it's a roll of the dice. If you've got a one percent chance, you do 100 kicks. One of them is going to land a little bit differently than you'd intend. I mean, how many of us have been in unintentionally?
Jeremy (11:02.114)
injured slightly or hurt or by their instructor. Yeah, they're like they're supposedly the best at what they're doing in the class. They're teaching because you know, not always. Sometimes we have assistant instructors, but but my point is like someone who's incredibly skilled can still occasionally on accident slightly injure someone. It happens all the time. So there's our big setup for this. So how do we reduce the risk of injury in a pressure testing environment?
The first thing is you don't pressure test every aspect all at once. Correct. If you think about the dynamics of a self -defense situation, there's a great deal of speed. There are a lot of unknowns. There is strength. There are no rules, most likely. There could be weapons involved. There could be multiple people. I'm not going to recommend that you do all of those things at once, but you could.
take a couple of them out and put together a scenario. Sparring is just so one of those. When we spar, we are reducing speed, we're reducing strength. Sometimes, I've trained in environments where you can go as fast as you want, as long as you're not hitting hard. Or you can hit as long as you're going slow enough to make sure that it's on this side of the safety line.
Yeah, and I talk about that with some of our younger students that are getting up in ranks that they have to learn the control to be able to go fast but not hit. And I actually have them practice punching a wall really fast because none of them want to really punch. I can be fast, you trust me. I can be fast but just barely hit you. You can do that to anything if you train at it. And so.
Here, I'm practicing my speed, but I'm not practicing my power. Then we can start practice power, but maybe we back off on the speed a little bit to work that power. Obviously, I don't do that with Jeremy's arm. That would be on a bag or something else. Then you can start to, but you're right. It's taking variables out and working on separate things at a time. When I put together scenarios for my students, I refer to them as parameters. There's always parameters. Even if it's a self -defense,
Jeremy (13:24.78)
real world situation, the parameters are who it is and where it is and when it is and what you're wearing. Those are all parameters that are relevant. And so we try to my school work on one or two of those parameters at a time. Yep. Right. So maybe we're working on reaction time. Maybe we're working on strength or speed. If we're doing anything with knife defense, we're probably.
keeping it really slow and really gentle because I want them to have some confidence as they go through, right? And just as an aside, I think one thing that most of us would agree on is that if your drills reduce the confidence of your students in a, you know, not to temper them and show them, hey, you got a little cocky, but to make them feel like they are less capable of defending themselves, that's probably not a good way to It's not working. Yeah. Yeah.
You're kind of defeating the purpose of what you're trying. We did an episode a while ago that the the myth of bad self -defense something like that Yeah, and really it can go back and listen to it But the ultimate outcome was if someone is more confident in themselves and in their abilities that are less likely to be attacked So this is an important piece So that that's step one make sure you are being intentional of the type of training the parameters that you are training and
that you are guiding your students or yourself to do so in a way that...
Jeremy (15:00.066)
creates a path for progress while remaining safe. That safety piece is really critical. People don't ingest new information when they don't feel safe. No, because when they're not safe, they're scared. I mean, if you don't feel safe, the opposite of that is you are scared. And we all know we fight or flight, right? If you're scared, you're either going to fight or flight. But when you're fighting and you're scared, you don't have control. Now, that is a parameter.
Right? We can put our students and ourselves into situations where it's really scary, but it can be done in a safe way that, you know, we're creating this environment. We've talked about drills on this show before that make people nervous. And a lot of it comes from the unknown. Who is going to attack me? What are they going to do? Right? Yeah. That's where a lot of that comes up for, especially.
Beginner to intermediate martial artists. Yes, and I actually took part in this type of drill actually Name -dropping again. Yeah, I was in England and visited Ian Abernathy's school and I was actually on my honeymoon and Partly is the best wife. Yeah, I do you're right towards the end of class we had on our sparring gear and he Said say Abernathy actually he hates he doesn't like being called sensei. I
Ian had three or four people, you know, stand in the center of the room, separate from each other and close their eyes. And he told everybody else to quietly, and there were like, you know, 30 other people in class, separate themselves and surround the other people. And when he said go, when he, what did he, because it was years ago, he would like motion with his hand to go and you had to keep your eyes closed and you couldn't open them until someone touched you. And.
Once you felt someone kick you again, we're wearing sparring gear But then you can open your eyes and you have to look around you might have two people around you. You might have 15 And you know, I was on the I had my eyes open side a couple times and then he said Andrew, you know You're here. Like why don't you get in so and Teresa has this on video I think somewhere I don't know if we still have it but so I closed my eyes and I don't I didn't know this happened because my eyes were closed
Jeremy (17:22.306)
But everyone kind of spread out and I had like three or four people on me and Ian's like... And he sent like 17 or 20 people on me and everyone else said hardly anybody. Just for fun because I was the new guy. Now, make no mistake, completely safe. It was definitely sparring at like a three, two or three. We were all wearing gear. It was done in fun. There was no malice here. It wasn't like he was hazing me.
I realized I was telling the story, it might come across as like, oh, get the new guy. But it was definitely one of those, you open your eyes and it was a little bit of being scared. Like a little bit of like, I've got like 20 people on me, and they're all coming in and I had to try and defend myself and get out. So anyway. Yeah, so that's an example of kind of hijacking the brain's response. On some level, you knew you were safe. Yeah, absolutely. But you're still overwhelmed.
And that's still pushing the adrenaline forward and forcing you into that place. And there was no grappling. It was all just, you know, like no one came up and choked me. Another way that you can mitigate, you mentioned it, sparring gear. Right now, of course, Whistlekick makes sparring gear. This is not a commercial for sparring gear. We do make the best sparring gear. Holds up very well. Check out our reviews. Talk to people who might have it. It's really good stuff. But.
some manner of protective equipment, whether that's sparring gear or maybe you are sparring with someone, but instead of them hitting you, you're holding a shield or a target or something, right? You can take that force off of your body. One of the drills that we do with very, very new students who have no control, especially on the younger end, is we'll have a shield and...
piece of PVC with some, with a pool noodle on it as a sword. And they have to defend the sword and hit the shield because they don't have control yet. And we're helping them work through that. Right now, not really a pressure testing drill, but it gives you an idea that striking doesn't have to occur on the body. It can be off the body. You mentioned a heavy bag earlier. It's a wonderful way. Heavy bags don't, but kind of do.
Jeremy (19:45.922)
Hit back. If you hit wrong, if you hit poorly, it hurts. You know, if you go hard for 10 to 12 seconds, you're gassed. Not everyone, but I am. Nobody's going full tilt beyond 15 seconds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you instantly know. I remember I came in once with back technique on a hook punch.
I didn't have a strong enough wrist and it folded it hurt. Yeah, absolutely it hurt. So, you know right away What are other ways that we can safely pressure test?
I've got one. I mean, I'm thinking stepping a little outside of martial arts, but You know in the Tactical training world they do stuff with lasers. Yep, and things, you know that you can you know, whether you were hit or not But you weren't hurt What's the equivalent their competition points boring mm -hmm, okay now
A lot of people are going to look at that and say, Jeremy, there's absolutely no redeeming value in pressure testing. Well, I disagree. You're being evaluated by people that you probably don't know. You are possibly sparring someone that you don't know. And it's an environment that's rather intense, especially if there's a lot else going on and it can really get your adrenaline up. And how many of us, the first few times we competed, came out and said, you know what?
I did the absolute best I could. No, quite often it's, I was burning a lot of kind of emotional energy just existing in that space. And you don't know what the other person is going to do, right? It's, it, there's a huge variable. So coming out of that, as you get better at it, you have set yourself up better for a street confrontation because that environment doesn't bother you as much. That is incredibly relevant. Here's another way.
Jeremy (21:52.482)
You and I could do this. If we put on some gear and we made sure we were in agreement on what the rules were, I would spar four four with you. Sure. Probably wouldn't punch direct to the face. Yeah. Yeah. Right. We might have to have some safe words. Right. Like I need a break here, but we could do that on a limited basis because we've been practicing a while. We know and trust each other. I was going to say we've built up a trust. There's not going to be a
a risk that one of us, he's trying to be a jerk. Yeah. Right. He hit me too hard. So I'm gonna hit him harder. But no, no, if you hit me too hard, you hit me to five and not a four. I'll let you know. Oh, hey, back it down. That was a little much. That was a little too much. Because we're, anytime we're progressing, we're trying to find where's that line and get really close to it. Because that pushes the line. Right. You don't get stronger lifting all of the weight once you get stronger consistently lifting.
near your maximum. And you also don't get stronger lifting the exact same weight every single time. Right.
Jeremy (23:02.498)
So what else? What are some other examples? I think that the construct of focusing on and removing other parameters is really what it comes down to. Yeah, yeah. I think the, and we want to still continue to stay safe, you know, so for safety, you're as good, you mentioned pool noodles. I use them in our school when I'm teaching. I often.
Because I'm a big nerd I did a lot of larking when I was younger so I have actual foam swords Not ones that you went out and bought like I made these myself But I will use them in class for the exact same thing like we block this boom and and if they miss it and I hit him in the head It's a foam sword. It's not gonna hurt right, right, but they can see whether what they're doing would actually And over time you're moving that faster and faster absolutely because the that's
That drill, hitting with a foam sword, sacrifices the force in favor of being able to prioritize the speed. Speed, yep, exactly. And you gradually can, like you said, build that speed up and then you can go fast.
How do you put it all together? There's no perfect way. And this creates a lot of arguments. And I don't think that those arguments are necessarily valuable. If you want to be as ready as you possibly can for a self -defense situation, then you have to identify where are the places that I'm most limited. Is it, for a lot of us, it's comfort with getting hit? I hate getting hit.
I'll admit, it's probably the place I could use the most work. Thank you. I appreciate that. I hate him. So hard. That was a one.
Jeremy (24:58.274)
But for you, maybe it's your ability to respond without turning away. I know a lot of people that when they get panicked, they turn. It's that fight or flight. It's more of a flight. It is innate. It is natural. This is why there are systems out there. Shout out to Tony Blower. He's been on the show a few times. It's why there are systems out there that exist that try to work with those instincts rather than contradicting them, which frankly, a lot of our martial arts systems...
Try to train out those instincts. So anything else? No, I think that's pretty good. All right. If you have things to add, we would absolutely love to hear them. Best places in the Facebook group, Marshall Arts Radio. You can also email us, andrewatjeremyatwhistlekick .com. Whatever platform you listen on, make sure that you give us a thumbs up and a like and a review and a comment and all that good stuff. And...
Make sure you're sharing these episodes with other people. Help us grow the show so we can, I appreciate the pantomime, so we can grow what we do and find new and better and interesting ways to serve you, the traditional martial artists of the world. We appreciate you for being here. Check out whistlekick .com and at whistlekick on social media. We good? Until next time, train hard, smile, and have a great day.
I thought you were going to say, So we can find new and better listeners. And I'm like, better listeners? No, we don't like any of these listeners. All these listeners are terrible. But then you went, better ways to... Okay. But I swear, I thought you were going to say, so we can find new and share it because then we can find new and better... And I'm like, listeners? I put my foot in my mouth sometimes, but usually not that bad. No, you're okay. You're good with that one. This is going to end up in... Yeah, of course it is. But it was true. I did think that.
Oh boy.