Episode 872 - Mr. Kenny Herrera
Today's episode is a chat with Mr. Kenny Herrera, who hold the distinction of being one of six people to have attained rank from Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis, and Bill Wallace!Mr. Kenny Herrera - Episode 872
In this episode, we are honored to host a true living legend who has earned rank from not one, but three iconic martial arts pioneers: Chuck Norris, Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, and Joe Lewis.
Our guest's journey through the martial arts world is nothing short of extraordinary. From the disciplined teachings of Chuck Norris, renowned for his martial prowess and contributions to the film industry, to the dynamic and kicking expertise acquired under the mentorship of the legendary Bill "Superfoot" Wallace, and finally, the invaluable lessons from the late Joe Lewis, a trailblazer in kickboxing and a celebrated martial arts philosopher.
Join us as our guest shares firsthand accounts of training with these three titans, providing rare insights into the philosophies, techniques, and life lessons imparted by these martial arts icons. Discover the secrets to mastering the mind, body, and spirit as our guest unravels the wisdom gained from their unique journey through the martial arts world. This is a conversation no martial arts enthusiast will want to miss.
Show Notes
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Show Transcript
Jeremy (00:01.305)
Hey, what's happening everybody? Welcome, this is Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio and on today's episode, I'm joined by Kenny Herrera. We're gonna get talking in just a moment. I'm so glad you're here. This is gonna be a fun one, I can tell. But for those of you out there, if you're new, go to whistlekick.com. See all the things that we're doing to connect, educate and entertain the traditional martial artists of the world.
And then when you're done over there, go to whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com. Check out all the episodes we've done. They're all there. So many. In fact, we get people on the show and they say, you should have so and so on. Well, we had them on four years ago. We're in year nine as we're doing this. So don't hesitate to poke and look around over there at who's been on the show. Quite a few people that that, you know, Kenny, have been on the show. I mean, if we were to. Yeah, yeah, it's it's.
Kenny Herrera (00:47.2)
That's awesome.
Jeremy (00:51.073)
Now I know who you are because of the circles that you roll in, the ones that I get to kind of hang out on the outskirts of. How did you get wrapped in with so many amazing martial artists?
Kenny Herrera (01:06.558)
Well, wow, it's ironic you're in year nine because nine is the magic number in martial arts. I feel really special. I was born in the ninth month, the third day, the root, in 1954 and five and four is nine. So I was built for the martial arts. You know, my career, I got started. I grew up here in the Antelope Valley in California and playing music. My dad was involved politically, had parties and he had a Dixieland band.
Jeremy (01:11.395)
Is it? Okay.
Jeremy (01:19.074)
Sure.
Kenny Herrera (01:36.026)
One of his partners was a drummer. I was fascinated. Threw me some drumsticks. I started playing drums. And then I started playing in a band. And the girls would wink at me, and their boyfriends would want to beat me up. So I thought I'd be able to protect myself. So I started off like a little Daniel and Karate kid, getting all these magazines and in my room doing this stuff. And met a guy. Wound up going to YMCA and met his brother, who had just signed up at Sherman Oaks Karate at a Chuck Norris school.
So I went with him down there and fell in love with the arts, started training, and Chuck encouraged me to compete and started traveling around competing and met my wife in Albuquerque, New Mexico at the Western National Karate Championships. And man, just because of the association with Chuck Norris, he introduced to some of the top martial artists in the world. You know, he brought Bill Wallace in 1979 at our first Black Belt Conference to...
Jeremy (02:27.993)
Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (02:33.238)
teach his style of kicking. And I loved it and been doing it ever since and brought in Benny the Jet, teach kickboxing, Jean LaBelle, Judo Jean LaBelle with locks and levers and brought in Joe Lewis and Joe had the school before Chuck there in Sherman Oaks. And then brought in the Machados and Gracies to teach the grappling piece and then the CROV. So it's a full service.
martial arts and it's been real exciting and just so fun, you know, and then being with Bill and traveling to the UK with him for the past 10 years, it's been very exciting. And, you know, he's the best all time kickboxer hands down.
Jeremy (03:16.437)
and such an amazing man. I mean, just, I think that's the part that, you know, you might not know that until you get to know him. You certainly, you know him better than I do. But that's the part that I'm always struck with when I get to spend time with Bill is how kind he is. And that if, you know, he doesn't, he doesn't talk poorly about people, you know, I've heard people ask him questions, and he's just like, you know, he doesn't want to speak bad of anyone. And in my experience, that's not
Kenny Herrera (03:17.928)
Oh, here it is.
Thank you.
Kenny Herrera (03:36.864)
No.
Jeremy (03:45.745)
typical of people who reach a point of, you know, an ascension, right? Like, he's done some big stuff, you know, he can come from a place. Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (03:56.854)
Well, in the upper echelon, I think they're like that. Chuck Norris was the same way, Joe Louis, you know, they're just gentlemen about it. That's why they're so special in the art. They really live the values, the core values of the art. And, you know, Chuck's thing, if you don't have anything good to say about somebody, don't say anything. So you really take that to heart. And that spills over into all the martial arts.
in groups like that with Joe and Bill the same way. They'll tease you, they'll have fun, but they never speak ill about anybody, you know. So they've been great role models for me in my life in that direction, so.
Jeremy (04:31.043)
Yes.
Jeremy (04:39.457)
Now I want to go back because you mentioned quite a long list of very impressive people, but you kind of worked in there. You met your wife through training?
Kenny Herrera (04:51.014)
Yeah, my wife was, she trained with Alan Malaya Dacascos in Denver, Colorado. She was a top competitor back then, one of all the major tournaments in fighting and form and team competition. And we go to these tournaments, we'd come out, I'd be holding all these trophies, and everybody thought, wow, that guy's really good. But they were all hers, you know, I have a little medal or something. But yeah, and she was just incredible. And we traveled around so she could
Jeremy (04:59.749)
Oh, wow.
Jeremy (05:11.951)
Ha ha!
Kenny Herrera (05:19.966)
And she knew Bill and Joe and those guys better than I did back then. And yeah, it was really fun. And Chuck had encouraged me to compete, him and Pat Johnson. And it was exciting. You learn so much about yourself, being able to put yourself out there and get on the line and do that. And the kind of preparation and what you go through mentally and emotionally during that stuff. And-
So it was really good. And then being a musician, I struggled a lot because I wanted to stay in train. And Chuck said, no, go do your career. Wherever you go and travel around the country, go to the local school, introduce yourself, tell them you're my student and see what happens. Most of the time it was really good stuff. People were really nice.
And I got to train and interact and learn things and teach them things. And then sometimes they, oh, you're from LA. You think you're a tough guy. We're gonna show you. We'd run out of the place. So it was a great experience. I got to meet JT Will, who was one of the top referees back in the karate days in Columbus, Ohio and train with him at his school and become friends. And Chuck Norris influenced my whole life.
Jeremy (06:19.931)
Yeah, yeah.
Jeremy (06:26.341)
Yep, yep.
Jeremy (06:35.717)
Hmm.
Kenny Herrera (06:36.43)
Just all the people and my wife, my kids, everything. So it's been really good.
Jeremy (06:42.509)
You know, when we talk about Chuck Norris, we can look at his influence on the world in a few, there are a few different angles we can come in on. And the one that I think is really interesting, it's actually, it's a kind of a, I'm sorry, what did you just hold up there?
Kenny Herrera (07:00.061)
It's his morning kick, his roundhouse. I mean, he's up with Lentz and Hormuz.
Jeremy (07:02.745)
Oh, yeah. You know, if it wasn't for the jokes, the Chuck Norris jokes, which, you know, initially he was not so keen on, there's a whole generation that wouldn't know who he is. And so you've got that as one bookend. And then you've got folks like yourself who
Kenny Herrera (07:11.822)
memes.
Jeremy (07:26.293)
when you start, if I'm doing the math right, when you started training, he was not at his peak. So, you know, it fascinates me, right, because we don't get a lot of legends, right, and when we look at the martial arts, we don't have a lot of legends, and most of them, you know, rarely is any of us, you know, like myself, going to see them before they become legends. But, you know, you're talking about some absolutely remarkable people, so let's start talking.
Kenny Herrera (07:31.825)
No, he's...
Jeremy (07:55.181)
about Chuck Norris and what it was like, you know, before the height.
Kenny Herrera (07:56.416)
Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (08:03.822)
Chuck has always been Chuck. He was a visionary back in the day. And it doesn't matter the amount of money or fame. It's about being that person who you are and being a visionary. And he was able to teach that and embody that whole concept. And it's been exciting. And I've got to watch the career flourish and the ups and downs of it, you know, that we go through in life. It's not perfect and rosy all the time, you know.
So I think there's a uniqueness and I know you're into music and I correlate this a lot with the top musicians. You can have Bach, Beethoven and Mozart, they're all making music in completely different ways and approaches to it, much like Bruce Lee, Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace and Chuck Norris. But the one commonality between them is they're all visionaries. They're all creative, they push the boundaries, which a lot of people don't. They get real comfort.
comfortable in their own comfort zone and they don't like to step out. They don't wanna be embarrassed. Chuck's one of the first guys I ever met that'll admit that he's wrong and made a mistake and change course, change directions. And we do that as fighters. We go in with a plan and things change and there you go. So it's all part of that. And it comes with being comfortable with who you are and pushing that envelope.
and being able to be true to yourself. And I think it comes from faith. The Christian background that he had with his mother and holding tight to that, it gives you that strong base and values and look for the best in people, look for the best in situations, assume best intentions and being able to be a fierce competitor, but yet hug it up after you're done and not carry a grudge and that kinds of stuff. So.
I think that's been a tremendous influence in my life. And, you know, the others, I mean, with Bruce Lee, with pushing, again, the envelope of with boxing and going outside of classical traditional martial arts. And then.
Kenny Herrera (10:15.574)
you know, the work he did with Joe Lewis, Joe was just a brilliant savant, being able to take that information, synthesize it, write it down and put it in a way to fight different kinds of fighters and different approaches to it. And then Bill Wallace having the attributes to execute all of that, and just to naturally be able to execute, maybe without doing his own version of that, where Bill is really pushing right now.
the concept in his teaching and being able to articulate what he does, what he did in the ring, being able to capture that and build the legacy on that. So it's very exciting to have been around those folks and learn what I can. In my teaching, I teach the concepts that I learned from Chuck Norris and the concept I learned from...
Joe Lewis and the concepts I learned from Bill Wallace and how they're much different. But when you put them into yourself and you adapt them to your style of fighting, there's a lot of value there. And I know once I started doing that with the three greatest masters, my career took off. I was able to start really seeing the fruits of my labor and competing and winning and winning some championships and that kind of stuff. So.
Jeremy (11:38.118)
When you talk about these guys, and we've had other contemporaries of that time on the show, and one of the things that strikes me that we definitely lost for a while, and I feel like it's coming back, and I'm curious your thoughts on this, was they were all sharing with each other. They were all, they'd get in the ring, and the best example of this for the audience, if you've never seen...
the 1980 when Bill and Joe fought that exhibition match. Best friends, like claimed best friend. They loved each other dearly. Beating the tar out of each other, right? The ability to set that aside and then come back. And it wasn't just in that way, they might compete and then go, okay, let's get better. Because they recognized on some level, whether conscious or not, that if they made their competitors better, they had to get better.
And it's something I've heard from so many of the folks who were active in the 60s and the early 70s. Can you speak to that at all?
Kenny Herrera (12:45.438)
Yeah, I think there's something intristic about it that's just like being a parent or a grandparent as I am. Chuck had that. He expects you to be better than him. He will teach you everything that he knows because just like a father and your child, you're gonna teach that child to fly on its own and do everything that you can and to be better and exceed.
And that's that quality that those folks had. They're going to teach you, you know, we have different bodies, we have different heartbeat, we move at different paces, all that kinds of stuff. So then it's your individual and how you develop it. But they would share information. Some people are so selfish that they'll hold information back so they can always have a lever over you. And that's not being true. Being true is be able to share all that information and hope that your students and the people that you work with
Jeremy (13:30.15)
Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (13:41.258)
can use that and become better than you. That's the evolution of the martial arts. Look how far we've come. I mean, Joe Lewis invented the kickbox and we didn't have it before then. He'd won every major karate event and tournament around. What's the next level? Well, let's incorporate that. Let's put gloves on and let's go out as this stuff worked for real. And boy, if you've ever squared off with Joe Lewis, it's one of the scariest things ever. I mean, to see that mountain of a man.
You know, and that intensity where he lines up and comes out, you're holy buckets. You feel an adrenaline rush like ever. And gulp and hope that, you know, he's not gonna kill you, so to speak. Or injure you. Yeah.
Jeremy (14:17.083)
Yeah.
Jeremy (14:23.29)
I've talked with a number of folks who went through black belt testings with Joe Lewis and they just they talk about, you know, clock time, it being relatively short. But in terms of impact, yeah, just unbelievable. And you know, you, you make it or you don't.
Kenny Herrera (14:27.884)
Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (14:37.29)
Yeah, three minutes. Three three minute rounds, yeah.
Jeremy (14:48.917)
You get good faster, you don't. You try hard and get better, or you don't.
Kenny Herrera (14:54.218)
Well, you know, Bill Wallace is the same. His tests are grueling. Chuck Norris the same way. They have high expectations and high demands. I remember the old days of black belt testing. Not everybody passed. And I remember a test where everybody got through with their forms and Chuck said, you guys are all gonna have to come back another day.
You're not driving your knee on your front kick, and you're not driving into your stances on your forward stances, and you're not transferring power, you don't get it. You haven't mastered the basic fundamentals. So you need to come back another day. And 11 disappointed candidates that day, but he kept true to himself, the system, and held that bar of quality up. And that legacy continues where we strive hard to keep and maintain those high standards in those organizations today.
Jeremy (15:43.429)
Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (15:44.026)
That's the Chuck Norris organization, the Superfoot, the Wallace organization, and the Joe Lewis legacy systems.
Jeremy (15:52.649)
I can't imagine there are very many people that have the ties to all three of these gentlemen. I mean, you probably know who they are. If there is anyone else that you... Six? There's six? Okay. You know, maybe off air we can... I'm curious. There are a few. Actually, I think I've met two of them prior to... Okay. Yep.
Kenny Herrera (16:05.448)
There's six of us in the world right now.
Kenny Herrera (16:16.054)
Well, I'll name them for you. John Maynard was number one, Steve Smith, number two. I was three. Tony Gooch was four, Dave Sinopoli, five, and recently, as of last year, Walt Lysak, number six. So it's a really great group of guys. They're all just cut from the same cloth. They give you the shirt off their back. They're brilliant martial artists, brilliant teachers, and willing to share.
Jeremy (16:29.653)
Okay, yeah, I know.
Kenny Herrera (16:44.802)
show you the differences and just how to synthesize that together.
Jeremy (16:49.013)
So actually, let's talk about that piece, the idea that these are all good people, right? I don't know any of the six of you well. I'm not going to claim that I know you well.
But the idea that at these high levels, these incredibly capable martial artists are generally, at least of this generation that we're talking about, good people. And one of the things I find that we talk about on the show is that sometimes people, in my mind, slip through the cracks and get promoted, and they're no longer good people, or they aren't good people and they achieve rank. What was it about that era or that philosophy or whatever that made it different?
that all of these people are great people, in addition to being very skilled.
Kenny Herrera (17:37.834)
Well, you know...
When we were training in the early days, we trained to get black belt technique, not to get a black belt. So there was a little different concept and the higher ranks, you did you tested up through third and then there was a lot of honorary ranks beyond that. And people were honored for what you had. You can just show up three years later and get your rank. You had to be participating, be active in the system. And you know,
Chuck Norris, Pat Johnson, they were pioneers with that because in the Korean system, you only tested up through third. But what they started doing is, you're gonna test for fourth, fifth, all the way up. And because you need to keep continuous improvement, continually learning, learning new katas, learning weapons, doing presentations, being able to teach and different requirements.
So they kept evolving like that. And I thought that was really good. And I think from my training partner all these years, I was so blessed to have one of the best guys on the planet, Steve Smith, had that mindset of continuous improvement. And if you look what Chuck Norris taught us, hey, what are you gonna do next? Now that you've reached one goal, what's your next goal? So, you know, I've got black belts in five different systems, 30 ranks, master in three, and
and working on achieving a black belt in Filipino stick fighting. And, you know, having an accountability partner, a training partner that's going to continue to push you, push the envelope and not sit back and go, oh, look who I am, look what I've done. It doesn't matter, you know, what you did yesterday, what are you doing today, what are you doing? And I think it comes from those tenants that Chuck Norris instilled, Bill Wallace instilled, you know, Bill's what, 70-70?
Jeremy (19:37.63)
7
Kenny Herrera (19:38.59)
And he's, I train every Wednesday with him and he does as many of everything just demonstrating as we do. And every time I learn just something new, I've been training this stuff for years, been training with him for years. But you can always learn, you can always get better. And I think that's that concepts that they instill in you, that continuous improvement, discipline. So you have to take a solid inventory of yourself and go, well, what's discipline?
What am I really doing? Am I really behaving the way I'm claiming I am and doing that? And I had to take inventory and say, no, I'm really not. I need to get better. I need to do better. I need to be more disciplined every day. So it starts a lot with physical, having that mental attitude. But you got to do something physical to get those endorphins going. So every morning, I discipline myself. Then I get up and do 100 push-ups.
and I had to do a motivation, so I use my granddaughters. I do 10 for each one of my granddaughters and 25 for my grandson and 25 for my other three kids. And just religiously, every morning when I get up, I do that. And if for some reason I can't the morning, I pick it up later in the day or before I go to bed. But.
I gotta be true to myself and be disciplined to do that. And other folks do other things. I know some of my friends got shoulder injuries and they can't do push-ups, so they find something else to do. But even if it's just brushing your teeth and making your bed, find some kind of a discipline that you can do every day so you can feel good about yourself and move that on. And not only the discipline, but...
So many people, we live in a culture and we grow up, we're very selfish, it's about me. And it's like, how are you using your art to help other people? And, you know, are you open-minded enough to understand that other people need the values that you're getting in the martial arts, and they need them sometimes more than you do. And I feel pretty good and fortunate that
Kenny Herrera (21:45.27)
I'm healthy, I got all my original parts where a lot of folks my age, they got new knees and hips and all this kinds of stuff. And those are challenges in themselves. But I look at people that are overcoming real physical obstacles, like maybe only have one arm or they're in a wheelchair, or they have a severe disability that limits their breathing or the way they move. How vulnerable do you think they feel?
Jeremy (21:49.541)
Hehehehe
Kenny Herrera (22:14.186)
I know a lot of self-defense classes I do, I go into some facilities where there's military guys that have lost their legs or an arm and boy, they feel vulnerable. And when you can give them some techniques they can do, it really empowers them and makes them feel good about themselves. And nothing is better than raising the ability to defend yourself and your family. So, it's about giving back. And you look at those examples, Chuck Norris.
giving back through UFAAF and United Fighting Arts Federation Organization and all that he does there. And just being that inspiration and Bill Wallace, he travels to, I go to the UK with him and he's a superstar over there. It's like going with Mick Jagger or something. They love him because he shares and he empowers them and makes them better and willfully gives of his time and energy and...
Jeremy (23:00.613)
Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (23:13.27)
I don't know how he does it sometimes, but it's just really cool to see people like that. And Joe Louis was the same way. And it's really neat. And what I'm excited about is the next generation of superstars that are coming up like Terry Dow and just different guys in different organizations. The Chip Wright that was there with Chuck Norris, his stunt double.
Jeremy (23:24.483)
Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (23:40.258)
Just some amazing people out there in different organizations. And guys like Chris Natske, they got visions that are keeping this stuff going, keeping this stuff alive. And Paul Barnett, the work that he's doing over there in England, bringing these people over and introducing them to the UK martial artists. So there's a lot of great stuff going on. I spoke to Dave Brock this morning. They got the legacy Long Beach International stuff going on.
Jeremy (23:48.622)
Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (24:09.418)
where they do a Hall of Fame there. And, you know, it's just exciting to see that there's a lot of people that still care about the martial arts. Cynthia Rothrock, the work that she's doing around the globe and through her film, it's just exciting. They're very inspirational to a lot of people that need inspiration today. And, you know, the world's a little chaotic and people are struggling economically and martial arts is a good...
Jeremy (24:09.962)
Oh cool.
Jeremy (24:20.526)
Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (24:39.122)
opportunity to divorce your mind of any kind of bad stuff and stay focused on in the moment and what you're doing and feel good about yourself and be able to tentacle out and help other people.
Jeremy (24:50.289)
Hmm. Completely agree with everything that you just said. That in the moment piece, I think is something that we are so desperately in need of these days. You know, the world is clamoring for our attention constantly. You know, my phone's right there. Yours is probably not far away. You know, a good many of the folks watching or listening to this episode are doing so on a phone. This thing that just commands so much of what we're doing.
Kenny Herrera (24:54.766)
Thanks for watching!
Jeremy (25:19.141)
we're doing, but yet we don't bring our phones on the training floor. Right. Like we were, we, we separate that we recognize the value in stepping away from it for a time.
Kenny Herrera (25:24.039)
No. No, it's-
Kenny Herrera (25:32.158)
Well, you know, you bring up a good point, and I think it's the exciting piece for me is the community. You know, the community that Chuck Norris had at the early school in Sherman Oaks. I mean, that was a melting pot. I met, you know, movie stars and musicians and car mechanics and hairdressers. I mean, it's a myriad of all the different people, but when you got on the mat, they all leveled out.
There was no superstar on the mat except Chuck Norris. Everybody learned together and it was a real common thread that everybody could share and equal. I was blessed to be, when Chuck sold the school to Pat Johnson and started acting lessons, Pat took over Chuck's private clientele and used to teach Steve McQueen there. I got to be Steve's workout partner as a musician.
Jeremy (26:27.985)
Well, what was that like?
Kenny Herrera (26:29.918)
It was incredible. I mean, a little intimidating at first when I first met him. And, you know, he pulled up in the back alley, he had just finished Towering Inferno and had a big beard and his wife, Allie McGraw, and she'd be in a black dress doing her nails and he'd come and shake sweat on her, you know, and she'd go, and we'd work out. But once, again, once you got on the mat, he was very respectful, called me Mr. Herrera. And I mean, it was...
It was so cool to see that just what martial arts humbles people and gives them and made me feel good about myself that, you know, I could help him and share. It was just really unique situations and getting to meet a lot of musicians and, you know, Ralph Johnson from Earth, Wind & Fire. We got a chance to work out and it's just really cool stuff and all the way from Earth, Wind & Fire to
You know, Henry Gordy that was playing with Elvis Presley and Neil Diamond and Roseanne Cash back in those days and had a country background wound up going to Nashville. So.
Jeremy (27:37.209)
Let's talk about music for a second. You know, if anybody watching can see there drums in the background and you know I've overheard you In Terry kind of compare notes on drumming in the past and there seems to be a lot of crossover between martial artists and musicians First would you agree with that statement? Okay, and secondly why?
Kenny Herrera (27:56.674)
Totally agree, totally agree.
Jeremy (28:02.217)
I'm not a musician. I appreciate music. I love music. I just don't play anything. So why the crossover? Why that intersection there?
Kenny Herrera (28:09.982)
Well, I think number one, it's an art form, much like it's freedom of expression like the martial arts are. Famous drummer Buddy Rich was a black belt. I don't know if many people knew that, yeah. But it's all about rhythm and timing.
Jeremy (28:21.049)
I didn't know that. Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (28:28.13)
Joe Lewis used to teach about broken rhythm like Bruce Lee and its timing of when you can go in there to get your technique in and get a punch. And you find the rhythm of the other person and you counter that. And so there's a lot of synergy between drumming and martial arts that I see. But the challenge of the art form piece of it, and you know, kind of like the martial arts, if you look at the yin and yang,
You know, part of the end is the art form of it, that we practice the art and we learn about the history and the breathing and the balance and all the technical pieces. And then we got the sport part of it where we wanna go and try and use those techniques and see if we can get in there and make them work. And the whole time, we're keeping in mind the self-defense aspect of it in the street. How would I use this in a real situation to protect myself? Which we hope we never have to do.
And much like music the same way, we can do it just for ourselves where we can play and practice and work those notes, the art piece of it like that. And then we can go perform with ensembles or groups and get that sport piece of it and do that. And then we can go perform, which is a big thing.
And much like a street situation, that's where the adrenaline rush comes, the nerves come in, all of a sudden everybody's looking at me where you gotta stay in the moment and be on task and perform. Much like fighting, I find when I'm playing, I gotta concentrate. If I make a mistake and I start thinking, oh, I made that mistake, I make another mistake, you gotta stay in the moment.
Same like with fighting, if you make a mistake, you start thinking about it, you're going to get hit again, you know? So there's a lot of similarity there. Yet one of the artists I work with is one of the greatest, a guy named Peter White from England. He has a phrase, don't dig on yourself.
Jeremy (30:19.557)
Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (30:33.034)
So if you do something really good, don't be thinking, oh, how cool am I? I just did that because you're gonna get hit again. You know, you're gonna make a mistake right after that. So it really, the arts teach you to stay in the moment and be in the moment and enjoy the moment. Don't be in the past, prepare for the future, but don't be thinking the future, you gotta stay in the moment. If you stay in the moment, it'll all take care of itself.
Jeremy (30:39.461)
Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (30:59.766)
You know, a lot of times in life we try and push things, make things happen, do this and that. Whereas sometimes if we just let things organically percolate on God's timing, things work out a lot better for us.
Jeremy (31:13.337)
Hmm, so true. Yeah, this idea that, you know, when we're, when we're fighting sparring, whatever you choose to call it, you have to remain present or you're going to get punched in the face, right? This, you know, whether, whether the last exchange went well for you, went poorly for you, you have to put it aside. You can unpack that later. And I think there are a few places where you absolutely have to set those things down.
you know, when you're playing, I would imagine that you... there isn't quite the same physical deterrent to remain present. You know, you can miss some notes or fall out of tempo, and yeah, it's not good, but it's probably not going to injure you if you miss.
Kenny Herrera (32:00.462)
Well, you know, it's funny you say that because it brings to mind Pat Johnson, who is Chuck Norris's number one black belt took over the organization when Chuck started off doing the film. Brilliant teacher, and he used to say, you can probably get hit three times in a fight and survive, but beyond that, probably not. And you get to choose where you get hit. Okay.
So if you don't want to get hit in the face, you better learn to protect your face and that kind of stuff. But beyond that, it's going to be trouble. And it's kind of the same thing playing music. You don't want to do, you know, if you make a mistake, that's one thing, you're human, you're going to make some mistakes during a performance, but it's how well you recover from that. If you go, ah, shoot it, you know.
you know, or make a sour face like everybody's gonna know it. But if you make it like that's part of the show, it's just like much like you do when you're sparring, somebody hits you and good shot, you know, you keep going. You, you know, oh, poor me and all this kinds of stuff. So, you know, the good fighters, that's what was so cool about the Chuck Norris organization guys like John Natuidad, Bob Berubis, Chip Wright.
They were so elite that they could, they would be happy for you if you scored a point on them or did something good. They would acknowledge the good stuff that you did. I don't see a lot of that today. I see, you know, people are like, he didn't really get me or it's like, you know, that sportsmanship.
Jeremy (33:41.877)
Yeah, and that's kind of what I was mentioning before. I feel like in pockets it's coming back. I feel like it's starting to come back.
Kenny Herrera (33:48.446)
Yo, yo.
Jeremy (33:54.349)
You know, in the work that I do, I do travel a decent amount. And, you know, I'm sometimes at competitions, whether it's, you know, amateur MMA or maybe it's more of a point fighting competition. And I see more of that than I used to say 10 years ago. So I'm hopeful that we're coming back on that. Cause that's how I was raised. You know, I, you know, I'm younger, but I was raised with what I now understand to be that older mindset. And I'm, you know, that's, that's how I think I'm quite appreciative of it.
Kenny Herrera (34:12.747)
Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (34:23.41)
Well, I think, you know, it's the 80-20 rule. I think 80% people are doing the right thing, you know, and striving for it. But, you know, we live in an imperfect society and not everybody's perfect all the time. And I think it's incumbent upon instructors to teach those values that we learned and carry them on. That's carrying on that legacy.
Jeremy (34:28.977)
Hmm.
Kenny Herrera (34:43.358)
And it's being true to yourself. You know, we're not perfect. And if somebody scores a point on me, I need to acknowledge that and go, hey, man, good shot. You know, and then go back and how could I have done that differently? Maybe pull my arm down or this and that. So, you know, and that's being true. And that helps them that they know that it was valid what they did. And it helps both of us. So that's what you want is a win-win in this thing.
Jeremy (35:12.209)
I would imagine being perfect is boring, right? Like one of the things I love is all these opportunities to get better. I was actually taking stock of this earlier this morning. And what really gets me fired up is, oh, here's an opportunity to learn and to improve this aspect of my life.
Kenny Herrera (35:30.612)
Yeah.
Jeremy (35:30.777)
but the things that I'm better at, yeah, they're good and I wanna maintain those skills. But just being good, I wanna get better. I wanna find the things I'm not good at, make those better.
Kenny Herrera (35:43.426)
Yeah. Well, and I think the other thing is, is that, you know, as we mature in life and mature in the martial arts, we get more knowledge, we get more things we got to get good at. And it takes more time and more dedication to be able to keep those perishable skills up.
And what that requires is a solid strategy, a life strategy. You know, and I'm blessed that some of the top martial arts guys have also expanded into the fitness world. You know, Anthony Albany is one of my dear friends in the East Coast. You know, he's a fitness nutrition coach. He helped me a lot with just ensuring
a proper eight hour sleep and get the right water intake and food intake. It's really helped me be a better, higher performer and, uh, in what I'm doing. And we need those strategies as we, uh, as we mature in life. You know, I was telling you.
Chuck Norris has gotten into everything with the Roundhouse. He started doing the supplement. It's just a powdered stuff that, and this isn't an ad for it, but it worked for me in just getting, making sure that I got all the right nutrients and stuff. And I felt, I feel great. I felt great.
Jeremy (37:17.178)
Yeah, it is remarkable to me how much we discount the really fundamental things, you know, sleep and water and eating decent food and it's all, you know, it's led to an observation for me and I make this statement and people sometimes get upset at it. You can't out-science nature, right? Our body has become, however you look at the body, right, whether it's evolution or design
Kenny Herrera (37:24.535)
Yeah.
Jeremy (37:45.457)
creation, it is what it is, right? We have this and it is used to certain things. And it wasn't that long ago that those things were plentiful and we don't give it those things now. And people get shocked when it doesn't work well.
Kenny Herrera (37:58.142)
Yeah, but I think, you know, if you look at the history of the martial arts and the battles and these guys, a lot of these guys, their training methods, hitting makawaras to deform their bodies, you know, they expected to die in battle. They didn't expect to live to be 100. They deformed their bodies, they kicked tree stumps, they do all the phlebitis by the time they're 40. I don't want to be like that. I want to live to be 100 and be able to see my...
grandkids and great grandkids. And I wanna keep continuing to study and practice martial arts. And in order to do that, you need a healthy body or as healthy as you can be, whatever it is it is, but maintain what you have to the best of your ability and be able to train and adapt your training. Remember Chuck Norris taught me that years back. He said, quit kicking a heavy bag. You're gonna destroy your hip lining.
Jeremy (38:29.786)
Yeah.
Jeremy (38:52.614)
Mm.
Kenny Herrera (38:53.046)
for a time he kicked in water and we you know, Bill uses a soft bag to kick and we kick for speed and not that pounding on the on the hip lining so, you know as Technology improves and the world evolves we evolve our training methods and you know, we're not I want to play drums I don't want to beat my hands on concrete and stuff and So we're smarter about what we do and taking care of our health is number one If you're not healthy, you can't train and do that
And so it's imperative that we take care of our health. And then it's got to reach out. You got to take care of your spouse, your mate in that case, and your children, and your grandchildren. And I know we're on a special Halloween day. So I'll save my grandkids. I'll eat some of their candy for them, you know? But.
Jeremy (39:42.782)
It's very kind of you. You. With health first, you know there's.
You in addition to coming up at a time when everyone was sharing, you know, my understanding is there was quite a bit of just Banging your head against the wall really rough difficult training And and I look at it now and you talk about, you know, we improve we start to learn and If you're always leaving training Limping and you've always got things that are hurt You know to me, that's the opposite of self-defense
Right? If your training is constantly damaging you, well, not only does that make you less likely to perform well if you need it, but it seems counterproductive.
Kenny Herrera (40:30.038)
Totally agree.
Kenny Herrera (40:35.254)
Bill Wallace has his training methodology that works for him and his teaching and his weight training, his boxing training and shadow boxing. I've incorporated a lot of that into what I'm doing. But you have to, you can't, and Chuck Norris, I had a lot of discussions about it. You can't overtrain. You know, your body needs recovery time.
So if you train hard on Monday and you stretch and you fight and you're banged up, bruised up, Tuesday you gotta give yourself a rest. And that might be the time where you work on your artistic piece of it, maybe your forms or something else to balance. Remember the yin and yang, you gotta find that balance in your life with everything you do. And let your body give it time to recover. And everybody recovers differently. It might be one day, two days, whatever that comfort zone is for yourself. But...
I think the one thing where that discipline comes in is that you can train every day, some aspect of your training, whether it's reading a book, watching a video. We're so blessed today. I mean, when I was coming up, Chuck encouraged us to write everything down in a notebook and there was Black Belt Magazine and some Bruce Tegner books and stuff. But today you can train with any top martial artists almost anywhere in the world, anytime of day on your computer or cell phone or YouTube.
It's amazing. I train people online, Germany, East Coast, South. It's pretty exciting how you can do that and get a lot out of it. So to supplement your training like that, it's really awesome today. And there's no reason why you can't carve out, they say if you take 17 minutes a day working on something,
that within a year you'll be ahead of 90% of the people on the planet. So that's pretty amazing statistics. So you can find out how much you're wasting.
Jeremy (42:29.241)
Yeah, if I'm doing my math, right, two minutes a day ends up being for most people an additional, I think it's month of training. And if you go, you know, if you're going four days a week, maybe it's an extra two weeks, right? Two minutes a day. And you might think, you know, what can you do in two minutes? Well, you know how long two minutes is if you've been to a super foot test.
Kenny Herrera (42:53.39)
I can do my 100 pushups. I can do my 100 pushups, I know that.
Jeremy (42:57.017)
There you go. Yeah. You mentioned that you're kind of, maybe shifting gears isn't the right word, but that you're training with sticks now. You're doing some Filipino martial arts. What prompted that? Because that feels like quite the departure from the other things you've talked about.
Kenny Herrera (43:09.054)
Yeah, for the past year.
Kenny Herrera (43:15.334)
Well, my accountability partner in martial arts, Steve Smith. We train with a gentleman named Anthony Kleeman from Australia. He's from Australia. He's got a black belt with Benny the Jet. In addition to that, he used to train out of a Jet Center and fabulous martial artist. And we do key lot, which is our hand techniques and
kickboxing techniques and then it evolved into knife fighting and then into sticks. But we studied dose paras, Filipino martial art of stick fighting. And it's fascinating. I'm used to having drum sticks in my hand. A funny story on that. A few years ago, Steve and I went with some with a friend of ours, another Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace black belt named John Graham.
We went to the Philippines and then to China for some teaching and competitions. While we were in the Philippines, we were talking, he goes, man, I'd really love to hear you play drums sometime. I go, yeah, there'll be an opportunity. And we went to this mall and I bought some cauli sticks. And here they are right here, I'll get them for you. But they came in a nice little bag.
You know, they're about 29 inches long and they're real pretty. So I had these with me and we're walking along the boardwalk and he goes, yeah, I'd really love to hear you play sometime. And all of a sudden we look over and there's a band playing, a big pavilion and a set of drums there with no drummer. He goes, here's your chance. I go up there.
Jeremy (45:02.752)
Did you play with the ca-cali-sticks? AHAHA
Kenny Herrera (45:04.494)
There's no sticks on the set. Their drummer hadn't showed up, so I pulled out these collie sticks, and I start playing. And the singer turned around, and she's like, yeah. So I jammed about three songs with them until their drummer showed up. It was just like a god moment. It was really funny. But.
Jeremy (45:16.602)
Oh, I love it.
Jeremy (45:20.401)
That's super cool. Had you ever used, because those sticks are quite a bit thicker. Have you ever done that before?
Kenny Herrera (45:24.85)
Oh, no, I haven't. But I used to use parade marching sticks. They were big around like that. But it was kind of fun. But yeah, the music stuff's fun. And the stick fighting is, boy, it's intense. And there's a lot to it. I'm learning a lot, taxing my brain, trying to get all the forms and all the windows.
Jeremy (45:51.837)
Are there things, I would imagine the footwork stuff plays fairly well back and forth, but are there other things that you have to, I mean unlearn might be too firm of a word, but are there instincts that you have to temper?
Kenny Herrera (46:05.382)
Yes, you know, that's a great point. I've been, I taught a seminar last, well, this past summer at UFF conference. I'm teaching it again next month at the Western Tongsudong. I call it Bocat, the blending of classical and traditional martial arts into modern day. And, you know, like the yin and the yang, there's, there's different attitudes towards fighting. If you look at
all the classical forms, they step into the attack. So much like Krav Maga is moving forward, you're shielding, moving into the attack. With the evolution of martial arts and the instinctive in today's world, we got video cameras all around and people are defensive, they move away.
I don't want to get hit. I don't want to get involved. So like the new Chuck Norris, you found forms, they're all moving away, the first move is away, rather than the classic way of moving in. So it's a little different philosophy, different thing. So doing the sticks, it's a lot of zoning. They call it zoning. It's indirect fighting that if you compare it to like a Joe Lewis system, and it's moving all directional.
kind of like the clock method where you're moving in, you're moving out, just direction. And it's based on distance, whether you're at a long range, medium range or close range. So just a different way of thinking of things. And there's a lot of things that I can apply that are universal through the other martial arts I've studied, but a lot of things that are brand new concepts that I've had to.
kind of retrain myself to think out differently.
Jeremy (48:03.733)
And so as you're doing that, does that create moments with some of your other, let's call it more the training that you've done for longer, stuff you're more comfortable with? Does that do you bring that stuff in and go, I want to change this, I want to adjust this, does it start to permeate?
Kenny Herrera (48:21.802)
Yeah, I think so. I think it's, again, I'll use it like playing music. One of the things you have to do that, like Bruce Lee talked about, when you go to training, you have to empty your cup. You have to empty, OK, all that bias and all that stuff that you have in your brain with that. But at the same time, you have to hold true to who you are and what you are and how you move. Typically, people revert back to their basic style.
And fortunately, I got a good base with Chuck Norris and the Tongsudo. So I revert back to that. And that's my base that I do everything based off of. So I think like with playing music, I'll learn things in playing jazz drumming that will spill over when I play country. The way it's approached, the way it's manipulated on top of the beat.
And it's the same thing, I think, with martial arts. You can blend certain aspects of it into one another, and you can articulate. One of the things that I changed in my program, when you have your own school, I had a school for 23 years. One of the things when you have your own shingle up in your own school, you get to do things your own way a little bit. But staying within the framework and parameters of your association and that kind of stuff.
So one of the things I changed with some terminology, when my kids were little and when I was growing up, I learned up, down, forward, backward. So when they would say slide up, I'd always move up, because that was up direction. And no, they'd spend all this time saying, that's not what I mean. Well, say what you mean and mean what you say. I want you to move forward. Well, then say slide forward.
And then it keeps your head down. So terminology and linguistics has such an impact and effect on people. So there's a book called Verbal Judo that's very.
Jeremy (50:29.873)
I mean, a lot of people are talking about that book lately.
Kenny Herrera (50:31.466)
Yeah, it's written by a police officer that's encountered many different types of cultures. And the difference in all the cultures is so interesting. I'm getting a phone call here. And the reason for that is because they all interact different. Some cultures have their head down and, no, look me in the eye. Others get right up into your face.
Some use the hand movements and so you have to be cognizant of all these cultures so you're not offended by them and they're not offended by you. So it's kind of interesting when you study that and go around, you know, you travel around the world. I don't speak all these different languages but you can use hand signals and you know I'm tired or I'm hungry or so there's all these, you know,
physical communications that you can do. So the communication is like the number one thing. And as you become a good teacher and instructor, the way you communicate is so important with your students and you're communicating visually. So you better make sure that when you demonstrate something that it's accurate and it's the right thing, or you could look at students and tell who their instructor was, because they do it just like them, whether it's flawed or not, you know? And...
Jeremy (51:57.169)
Right, right.
Kenny Herrera (51:57.962)
Real interesting perspective with that. The other thing is being able to articulate what you want and it's using those language. You can get quicker results if you say slide forward rather than slide up and just things like that. And the way you, you know, what's interesting, you get like with the Bill Wallace, my wife was the same way. How do you do around it? Well, they just do it.
Jeremy (52:15.683)
sense.
Kenny Herrera (52:26.05)
their bodies are just so incredible that they can just do it effortless. Where me, I was like, huh, I gotta break it all the way down to all these little components. Well, you slide up, you inhale as you do that, you coil your leg. And so I became a good teacher with it because I could break it down to all those little elements. But not everybody needs that or has that. Vice versa, having come up with Chuck Norris, Pat Johnson, you can assess talent.
Jeremy (52:42.062)
Hmm
Kenny Herrera (52:54.122)
you can see what's going on with somebody and fix them. Coach them up really quickly by knowing these key factors on what leads to body movement and all of that, the science behind it that you're talking about. And everybody's built different. And so it's the connection of all those different kinds of people that you meet and experiences and being able to communicate with them. Bill's been very effective. We teach the European teams over there.
Jeremy (53:05.849)
Mm.
Kenny Herrera (53:23.758)
kickboxing teams in Wales and England, Scotland, and they've done really well in that European circuit over there. A lot of it's using those techniques.
Jeremy (53:35.477)
Oh, cool. You mentioned wanting to train for longevity and, you know, I think I heard you say you wanted to train, you know, when you were 100. Does that mean that there are, you know, on the other side of the Filipino martial arts training, is there something you're looking at next or next? Are there other things that you want to experiment with training wise?
Kenny Herrera (54:01.434)
Yeah, you know, that's a great question. I want to continue to explore and perfect the arts that I already know and do with the Chuck Norris system and with Superfoot system and Jola system. But like within Chuck's system, we have a BJJ program.
you can black belt in that. We have a CRAV program, you can black belt in that. So I've achieved ranks in the CRAV. I'd like to someday maybe get a black belt in that, pursue that. Just to, I, you know, had some top CRAV people I met with earlier in the year and want me to get into their program and I just don't have the mental capacity for it right now. I got too many other things going on because...
Jeremy (54:56.421)
I understand. Yeah.
Kenny Herrera (54:57.742)
because I'd love to do that, but I can't commit to it because of just other time constraints and mind capabilities right now. Very wonderful art, offers a lot of things. I love the jujitsu. Early in my career, the jujitsu with the Chuck Norris system in the early 80s, we trained with the Muchatos and Hoist Gracie, and I mean, there's none better. I loved it.
when it became so popular, you brought a lot of different folks in that had different agendas, and they'll try and tie you up and pull your shoulders out and your knees out. You know, so I'm, this is what I got left. I want to really preserve it, make sure I work with good, high-level people that aren't going to injure me. And I like doing that piece of it, you know.
Jeremy (55:53.088)
All right. What else? What else has come in? What else is next? I'll see you at some point, probably maybe this year, but probably at some point next year. And I say, hey, Kenny, what's going on? What do you want to tell me has happened? Or maybe we look out a few years.
Kenny Herrera (56:01.294)
You know?
Kenny Herrera (56:08.61)
Well, first off, it's been a very exciting year. I spent the first part of the year on the East Coast with Bill Wallace and teaching seminars in, we were in New York and New Jersey and Philadelphia and then Atlantic City for the big events there. And then we went to England, taught over there for a few weeks and attended the Hall of Fame Awards. That was always great. And then came back and...
was in Las Vegas for the UFAAF conference, competitions. And, you know, I'm still blessed that I can still move around and compete and do stuff and, you know, did well and it was exciting.
Kenny Herrera (56:56.094)
Last year, Chuck honored me with the Waylon Norris Award, the highest award in his system. So it's been continuous. Promoted me this year in that to a sixth degree. So that was exciting. And then being promoted in the Joe Lewis system, the fifth degree. So just continuous improvement. I wanna do that. And next year got plans to head over and...
back to England with Bill and May and go to Germany, do some teaching over there and spend time teaching my grandkids. That's always fun. It's kind of going full circle. I used to teach my kids. My grandkids are doing that. So seeing how I can share the art and do other things, we've got some conferences to go to next year and...
Jeremy (57:39.128)
That's awesome.
Kenny Herrera (57:52.086)
some award shows. So it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be filled with stuff, music stuff. I worked the past couple of years with Peter White on a new smooth jazz album that's gonna be coming in release first of the year. Played percussion on that. So I love doing that. And hopefully we'll be doing some performances for that next year. We did some performances this year, played up in Yosemite.
Jeremy (58:02.379)
Oh nice.
Kenny Herrera (58:20.37)
and the Redwoods up there and Sequoias. So yeah, it's been fun. It's been a great year. And big year for my wife and I next year. We'll be married 50 years. Yeah, the same one and all because of karate.
Jeremy (58:32.529)
Congratulations, it's amazing. Well, if people want to get a hold of you, how do they do that? Website, social media, anything like that?
Kenny Herrera (58:43.65)
Probably the best is my, yeah, I'm on social media and you can post my email up there, Kenneth.nolan.herrera222 at Gmail. And I'm always up for that.
Jeremy (59:00.377)
Well, I'm going to throw it back to you in a moment to close us up, but to the audience, thanks for being here. Thanks for, I mean, you should be thanking me for these amazing stories that we brought you and certainly I thank you Kenny. If you want to support, you know, shoot over guest ideas or topic ideas, Jeremy at whistlekick.com, follow us on social media, we're at whistlekick and you know all the ways that you can help us out and I really do appreciate those things. But
It's time for you to close it up for us, Kenny. So what, you know, how do you want to leave things with the audience, folks watching, listening today? What do you want them to think about?
Kenny Herrera (59:34.854)
Well, there's always that untold story. Next time we'll get into talking about some of the experiences with Karate Kid. Got to work on those films, and that was a lot of fun. And I got a part in Karate Kid III, and my own trailer. That was pretty exciting coming up during those days. And Joe Louis's movie, Force Five, kind of fight scene with Benny Arquitas and that, that was pretty exciting. So there's more to me.
wait for next edition.
Jeremy (01:00:06.684)
Yeah, it's a lot more to you, that's for sure.
Kenny Herrera (01:00:08.77)
Well, it just begun.