Episode 856 - Sensei Gregory Williams
Today's episode is a chat with Sensei Gregory Williams from New Hampshire.“I know what martial art Patrick Stewart would teach. It would be Makeitdo.”
Sensei Gregory Williams - Episode 856
In today’s episode of whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, we chat with Sensei Gregory Williams and embark on a journey through the realms of discipline, camaraderie, and fun!
In the world of martial arts, we've all experienced those unavoidable breaks in training. Whether it's due to injuries, life's unexpected curveballs, or even just a momentary loss of motivation, we've all been there.
But it's not just about getting back on track; it's also about the exhilarating process of learning from new faces and fresh perspectives. We'll explore how welcoming new instructors, training partners, and styles into your martial arts journey can breathe new life into your practice.
So, prepare to be inspired, entertained, and maybe even surprised as we explore the ever-evolving world of martial arts on today’s episode. Put on your metaphorical uniform, tie that belt, and join us as we kick off this exciting adventure together!
Show Notes
✅Subscribe to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio on the following platforms:
🎧Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3mVnZmf
🎧Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3yHVdHQ
🎧Google: https://bit.ly/3kLSpo8
✅You can find whistlekick on all social media platforms using the handle @whistlekick or visit our website at https://www.whistlekick.com or https://www.whistlekickmartialartsradio.com
Show Transcript
Jeremy (00:00.514)
Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome. This is Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio. And I've got a feeling there's going to be a lot of laughter happening with this one. Stick around. I'm joined today by since a Gregory Williams, Greg Williams. We talked about six different iterations of names here. That alone has set us on tangents. But if you're new to the show, a couple of places I want to send you head over to Whistlekick dot com, see all the things we're working on.
to connect, educate, and entertain the traditional martial artists of the world. We have a goal, a stated goal, of getting everybody in the world to train for just six months. And you can see all the things that we're doing to that end because martial arts radio is not the only thing. You can also head over to whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com for every episode we've ever made, as well as transcripts, links, photos, all kinds of great stuff for this and every other episode we've made. But without further ado, Sensei Greg, how are you? Thanks for coming on.
Gregory Williams (00:54.679)
I'm doing very well. Well, actually, you know, I am a bit bruised and beaten. I guess came from a martial arts camp over the weekend. So I'm recovering in the best way.
Jeremy (00:56.162)
Good, good.
Jeremy (01:02.506)
Oh nice. Nice. I was hoping it was going to be for good reasons and not because you tripped over the couch or something.
Gregory Williams (01:10.505)
No, just you know friendly brutalization between you know Karateka so it was good.
Jeremy (01:16.274)
Yeah, you know, isn't it funny how, you know, I suspect you would have had the same reaction. You said, you know, of a bit bruised and there was this dichotomy in my head. I'm hoping he got hurt at class or in training. Right. I'm hoping that's where it happened. Not, you know, I'm hoping that it's not too bad. I'm not hoping that you get better soon. I'm hoping that the reason for your, your bumps and bruises are.
Gregory Williams (01:34.547)
I pray.
Gregory Williams (01:46.619)
Well, martial arts people are a strange bunch, aren't we? You know, you're like, oh, you got a bruise. I know, isn't it great? You know, it's just like, I'm so proud of that one. You know, a bruise is a lesson, right?
Jeremy (01:49.186)
We are.
Jeremy (01:59.222)
blood, blood on a gi, blood on a uniform, right? It's like.
Gregory Williams (02:02.247)
I'll stay away from the blood if I can, but a good bruise, you know. Okay, well, you know, that does teach you something. Fist to the face will change your perspective.
Jeremy (02:04.61)
But what if it's your own?
Jeremy (02:10.058)
It does.
Jeremy (02:15.358)
It hopefully does. If it doesn't, you might wanna make it to make an adjustment somewhere along the way. So I'm gonna get the sense just based on those couple statements that you made that you.
Gregory Williams (02:17.639)
Hehehe
Gregory Williams (02:22.151)
Big sigh.
Jeremy (02:31.554)
from an old tradition, an older, maybe not necessarily in terms of lineage, but an older training culture, right? There are a lot of newer training cultures now that are not so rooted in rough-and-tumble bruises and bumps and blood and whatever.
Gregory Williams (02:39.516)
Oh yeah.
Gregory Williams (02:49.807)
Well, yeah, I started back, I'm guessing it's 87, late 87, early 88. So this is still in the time when, you know, I don't want to say Cobra Kai, but you know, there, there was those, you know, we're going to go out and we're going to brutalize each other. We're going to, you know, you know, there was, you know, a few years earlier, you know, there'd be karate schools that would, you know, be very, very rival with each other instead of the community that we have today.
So yeah, definitely come from an old school place, but I think my mentality has totally changed since then. When I started, it was very...
Jeremy (03:25.838)
Hmm.
Gregory Williams (03:31.191)
martial science versus martial art, you know, very, very much. I mean, it wasn't really karate was kickboxing really. I mean, it was, it was punching and kicking, you know, terms like tuite and, and Kyusho and meiotode all those kind of words that came, you know, from Okinawa were not in our lexicon, you know, we weren't even using much counting.
Jeremy (03:54.382)
Interesting.
Gregory Williams (03:59.719)
in Japanese at that time, at least not to my recollection. So, but, you know, and then along the way, you know, you meet people, they enlighten you, you get that, those quantum leaps of knowledge and new perspectives and change from kickboxing to really karate, you know, real karate.
Jeremy (04:24.178)
Were you enlightened or were your instructors enlightened?
Gregory Williams (04:27.615)
Oh no, I was oblivious. There was people along the way.
Jeremy (04:29.39)
Okay, okay. So, well, I think it's an important question because, let's face it, most martial artists, especially once they reach the place where they're opening a school, don't have these dramatic epiphanies where they make wholesale change to what and how they do. So the fact that you ended up with a school that happened, that's pretty, I think that's pretty special.
Gregory Williams (04:45.404)
Well, I think-
Gregory Williams (04:51.887)
Well, to be fair or not fair, it wasn't the school where I got these epiphanies. You know, where I was very much still that kickboxing, you know, very tournament oriented, you know, very pugilistic, we're gonna spar. Like we'll do kata, but that's the stepping stone to kumite, right? Let's get the kata out of the way and let's fight. But it was when...
Jeremy (04:59.154)
Okay.
Jeremy (05:13.038)
Hmm.
Gregory Williams (05:20.379)
you know, you're part of an association and you're only in your dojo and you're not associating with other people, even your own style, let alone other styles and other arts. It's when you start those associations, you go to camps, camps for the best. You go to a camp, you meet somebody and that's where those epiphanies happen. And you see somebody who's, you know, got tuned in to something.
You know, they've got a perspective that's just beyond what I had ever seen. And that leads you down new paths and re-excites you for what you're doing. You know?
Jeremy (06:06.89)
I do. Why did you get started?
Gregory Williams (06:11.611)
Um, what got me interested in martial arts or what or what got me walking in a door?
Jeremy (06:14.605)
Yeah.
How about both? If it's two different answers, I'd love to hear both.
Gregory Williams (06:19.951)
It's two different answers. So what got me walking in a door and cliche karate kid, obviously very big for anybody my age. It wasn't a, the karate kid was never something that like, oh my God, this is, you know, this is what led me to karate, but it was a catalyst, right? It was a catalyst.
Jeremy (06:28.267)
Mm-hmm.
Gregory Williams (06:46.823)
and I would, you know, I saw the movie, I would go out in the backyard, I would kick stuff, you know, I was an only child, so I, you know, kicking trees and playing with fake swords and doing that kind of stuff. Well, I had an upstairs neighbor, we owned a house and the upstairs neighbor just happened to be dating a guy who had a martial arts school. And she gave me a free pass, you know, and you know what, I went in for like an open house and
Jeremy (06:55.703)
Mm-hmm.
Gregory Williams (07:15.983)
I put my free pass, if you wanted, you could put the free pass in a little like fish bowl and I won a year's worth of karate. So very lucky in that regard. And you know, so I started training, you know, trained for a year. And when that year ran out, I liked the place. It was still the same karate style to this day. I liked the place, but I didn't quite like the environment, the atmosphere and other things pulled me away.
And I went down and I did some baseball, soccer, other sports. Um, and I eventually found another school and went there and that's leads us to another story, but that's how I got started that way. But what got me interested in the martial arts is. Well, if we keep moving backwards in time, the next major event was I had a religious experience. Now I speak, say that as an atheist. Uh,
I went into a very dark building. It had these red chairs. I remember sitting in the red chairs and the red chair, I must've been six years old. The red chairs were super high. My mom was on one side, my dad was on another side. And this music started to play. This huge fanfare. And all of a sudden, these yellow letters started scrolling up the screen. And then Darth Vader came out. And I'm sure you've heard that before.
uh Star Wars being very
Jeremy (08:42.694)
Not with that setup. That was a far better setup than I've ever heard that story. Please continue.
Gregory Williams (08:47.311)
All right, all right. But you know, Star Wars, definitely a big, big influence. And from the time I was that age until maybe 25, anybody asked me what I wanna do when I grow up, it was always Jedi, I wanna be a Jedi. That was always my answer. But thinking about it, what really got me interested in the martial arts was Zorro, the three musketeers.
Robin Hood, you know all that swashbuckling stuff that stuff I ate up as a kid and I think even to this day my favorite thing about the martial arts are weapons I love I love to play with weapons. I mean, you know Who doesn't love to throw a stick around and you know bash it up a bit? so, I mean, yeah, that's I think that's the Origin of you know, what got me interested in the martial arts and then you know that led to you know
Star Wars that led to credit kid that led me down the path of walking in a door. So, um, is that similar to other people's paths that you've seen?
Jeremy (09:57.114)
It's not far off. It's not far off. You know, I think for most of us, there are really only... I mean, either you want to do it or someone encourages you to do it, right? And really, the bifurcation there is usually around age, right? Like I started when I was really young and wasn't so much my choice because I wasn't aware enough of the world. You know, my mother said, you know, go do this. Okay, so I go do this. Because, you know, when you're that young, you do what your parents tell you. No choice. But it's the...
the times when someone chooses, oh, I want to go do this. And there are a handful of cases, and it's often something in TV or movies. It's Karate Kid, it's Ninja Turtles, it's Star Wars, it's Errol Flynn, it depends on generationally where people are at. But the dynamic element of weapons and specifically of swords or lightsabers,
Gregory Williams (10:31.748)
Right.
Jeremy (10:56.034)
I think is really compelling because it, you know, I think for a lot of us, and tell me if, this still has some applicability to you, those weapons give us more, right? Like we get more range, we get the promise of more impact, more power. I mean, there's a reason I have a letter opener right here on my desk, right? Because that gives me the belief that I have more capacity.
Gregory Williams (11:17.427)
Thanks for watching.
Jeremy (11:27.274)
And I think especially when you don't train, the idea of a sword is so powerful because everybody you ever see on TV or in a movie with a sword is bigger than life.
Gregory Williams (11:27.379)
Okay.
Gregory Williams (11:40.111)
Right, Errol Flynn, the Three Musketeers, as I said. It's, yeah, I don't know if it's wanting to be the hero in my own story or just being drawn to those heroic archetypes. I think that appeals to some people in the martial arts, wanting to be respectful, disciplined.
you know, doing the right thing. You know, I mean, that's what we teach kids when you teach kids and adults. And it's a good life goal, I guess. It's good, you know, path. If that makes sense.
Jeremy (12:21.582)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
So you leave that school after a year, right? And did you go immediately into the next school?
Gregory Williams (12:31.831)
No, there was a gap, I'm guessing six months, maybe a year, not too long. And I did, that was me. It wasn't anybody saying, hey, do you wanna go back? It was like, no, I wanna do that. I miss that, you know? I miss taking.
Jeremy (12:36.618)
Okay, so not too long.
Jeremy (12:50.392)
How old were you at the time? I don't think we got that.
Gregory Williams (12:53.031)
So I was born in 1971, so that must have been, you know, I must have been 17, 16, 17, at that era, that age. And I remember leaving the one school and I was, I left as a yellow belt, but that yellow belt was like higher up on the rank scale, you know, because, you know, belts changed between schools. When I started the new school, the yellow belt was down lower, but I was too afraid to say anything. So I went through two belts to get back to the level I was.
Jeremy (12:55.105)
Okay.
Jeremy (13:11.275)
Hmm
Gregory Williams (13:23.799)
Um, it was just, it was just funny to me in hindsight, you know, I was too afraid to say anything. It was the exact same style. So the two schools that were in the same town, uh, came from the same place and just different, different instructors.
Jeremy (13:26.722)
Hmm. Similar style? In the new school? Oh, okay.
Jeremy (13:37.163)
Was there animosity?
Gregory Williams (13:40.403)
Yeah, a little bit but not overly so, you know, you know, we're better than them that kind of thing Not like I hate them, you know but yeah, then I you know, it started at that school and You know, they knew I came from the other one. So as you were saying was there any animosity? No, not really, you know, I mean it was just like, you know, welcome ward. It wasn't super friendly, but it wasn't you know Any pushback, you know, you know It wasn't unfriendly
Jeremy (13:46.509)
Got it.
Jeremy (14:06.34)
Mm, it wasn't unfriendly.
Gregory Williams (14:10.991)
Then I you know what I trained there until I got to be about a green belt same school didn't leave and That was when someone I remember I was in class and I heard the words What about Greg and I was like what about Greg and I said come on over here And they gave me someone to teach You know and like hey show him how to do a B and C and that was like, oh, I'm scared now I don't know anything. I don't remember what I was supposed to do
And, but I loved it, you know, after I was done and that person can do what I just showed them that, you know, re-inspired me. And I ended up becoming, you know, a student instructor and then got hired on as, you know, part-time instructor as a green belt. You know, there's a shakeup in the school.
and things going, you know, this, you know, I had gotten my brown belt, it was a shakeup in the school, people, mass exodus, and I ended up being the head instructor of the school as a brown belt, teaching black belts. Yeah, it was, that was, you know, talk about feeling, you know, like you're thrown into the deep end, but
Jeremy (15:29.166)
Do you mind talking a bit more about that? Because I'm sure because the automatic response that I think most of us would have is if there were black belts Why were you as a brown belt the head instructor?
Gregory Williams (15:31.706)
Sure.
Gregory Williams (15:42.107)
That's a very good question. And I think there's a couple of answers to that. One, I was available. Not everybody had that point in their, not had the free time in their life to move into that kind of instruction, that kind of job. I was at that perfect age to say, I can do whatever I want in this life. I can take the job. The other thing was I was good. I won't say I was ever
Jeremy (16:04.29)
Probably had just finished high school.
Gregory Williams (16:11.795)
great at karate even to this day, but I will tell you that I have always been good at, I'm the jack of all trades, master of none thing, I've always been good at things, you know, maybe never the best at anything, but I've always been good. So I was good and you know that was noticed and that's why probably they said hey what about Greg? And you know so I was good and I think, you know, the other thing was that I would have been on the staff. So was I the best person for the job?
Jeremy (16:27.651)
Mm.
Gregory Williams (16:41.795)
I was the best option for the person, you know, at that time, you know, so.
Jeremy (16:45.998)
Yeah. And I think that's important. I am not someone who believes that, well, I think there are two problems often with the way we handle instruction and instructors as in the martial arts. And one is this false belief that simply because you can do something, you can teach it.
Gregory Williams (17:07.339)
Oh yes. Big difference.
Jeremy (17:08.89)
and the fact that, and then sort of the ignoring that the inverse can also be true. The idea that just because you've not done something doesn't mean you can't advise and help people progress with it. I can, I mean, to this day, I could watch a forum I've never done and I could say, your balance looks off in this stage. Is that supposed to happen? I'm guessing it's not supposed to happen, right? I could still help someone progress even though I don't know it.
And so as a brown belt, with some competency and some knack for teaching, I see nothing wrong with that. Makes perfect sense to me, especially if you were, as you said, the best option.
Gregory Williams (17:37.553)
Right.
Gregory Williams (17:49.239)
Right. And, you know, the thing I think I thought at the time, I remember an MP friend of mine once said, you know, you know, I'm, you know, I'm a sergeant as an MP and I have got to arrest majors and things like that. And, you know, I have, you know, they, you know, how was it put? Don't confuse your rank with my authority. And, you know, as an employee of the
Gregory Williams (18:19.243)
I have to respect your rank, absolutely, 100%. But let's not forget that I'm an employee here and I'm here to service you. We gotta put these egos aside, you know, and my insecurities aside. And, you know, I'll teach you what I know and I can learn from you. Because, I mean, really, you're a teacher. When's the time that you learn the most? When you're teaching.
Jeremy (18:47.246)
when I'm teaching.
Gregory Williams (18:48.611)
when you're teaching and I think you know that was the situation I don't know if I explained that well but
Jeremy (18:56.722)
You did you did so there are a couple things that I'm curious about well The first one will come back to and that is how do you know? How did this event impact your skill in your progress as a student? but first What occurred is in a kind of a perfect storm to filter out people with tremendous ego Right people with a lot of ego. We're gonna look at your belt. They're gonna look at their belt and go
Gregory Williams (19:08.211)
Sure.
Jeremy (19:26.154)
My belt is darker, how dare you try to correct me or teach me or tell me that I'm wrong. So they probably left and you were probably left with people who were very open and there for what I would call the right reasons. I'm gonna guess you had an amazing culture in that school.
Gregory Williams (19:43.235)
It was, it's amazing to me. Um, I don't want to say anything disparaging, but, but there was.
Gregory Williams (19:52.915)
What was above wasn't ideal, but so many fantastic martial artists came through that dojo. So many fantastic martial artists to this day, have schools, or are teaching internationally. I mean, I see people to this day they came from that school and they're just amazing martial artists. And...
If the culture is right and the people are right, you know, amazing things can happen.
Jeremy (20:28.17)
My theory and I'm curious if you would say that yes, this was at least a factor one of my big theories around teaching is that If unless someone believes they can get better unless someone believes they can learn something, of course They can't learn something and so I don't believe that just to be a binary state that it's a spectrum and so the more someone is willing to kind of surrender to the learning process whether it's academics or martial arts or
dance or anything. So if those egotistical people were filtered out and what you were left with was a bunch of people who just really wanted to help each other get better, led by a youthful brown belt, then you all probably progressed really fast. And I'm going to guess that that's why, you know, you're thinking of these folks that were in there with you that are off doing great things because they probably progressed very rapidly and achieved
developed skills and understanding that didn't happen at most schools.
Gregory Williams (21:31.123)
crucible, you know, kind of burn away the chaff and or whatever that's called and you're left with what's you know, pure Kind of thing I can see that You know So you asked a little bit about you know, how you deal with those egos and stuff like that You know for anybody who had that kind of ego, you know, I would talk with them and just say listen You know, if you don't think you can learn anything for me, that's great You know, just consider me the person counting for you
Jeremy (21:32.685)
Yeah.
Jeremy (21:40.44)
Mm.
Jeremy (21:49.997)
Yeah.
Gregory Williams (22:01.956)
I'm just your timekeeper, you know? If that's what you need from me, take that, you know? But...
I'm young, I have some really good kicks. You could probably learn some kicks from me. There's things we can learn from each other. And you just have that conversation.
Jeremy (22:20.718)
Where did that maturity come from? I mean, that is an absolutely, you know, that's at least 10 years early in terms of that attitude.
Gregory Williams (22:32.088)
Um, I don't know if it was maturity as just trying to find a path, you know, you know, a connection with somebody, you know, it is good business. You know, you want to keep students, you don't want them walking back out the door because, you know, some lowly bloke, you know, brown belt is teaching me.
Jeremy (22:41.175)
Hmm.
Jeremy (22:44.738)
It was good business, perhaps.
Gregory Williams (22:57.391)
You find some way to have that common ground You know and just work with it. I don't know it seemed to work. We didn't
Jeremy (23:04.658)
Yeah. And to the folks out there that are, you know, there are still plenty of people these days who would look at this situation if it occurred today and say, how dare a non-black belt open a school? And let's remember a lot of the people that we hold in very high regard had dramatically less experience when they started teaching and changing the world of martial arts than you did at that time. And they were barely, barely older than you. So.
I think that's important to acknowledge. But let's talk about how your own training and understanding of martial arts and personal progress was affected by this.
Gregory Williams (23:45.427)
Oh, it changed everything for me, honestly. I mean, imagine being in that position and how insecure you must feel, you know, standing up there in front of people. So I had to get better. You know, if I'm gonna teach first degree black belt, I better have first degree black belt kicks are better. You know, if I'm gonna be hit a second degree black belt, I better be able to beat them in a fight, you know? So it really, you know, pushed me to get better.
Jeremy (23:51.469)
Mmm.
Gregory Williams (24:15.267)
Um, was that ego? Maybe was that insecurity? Sure. Was that because I wanted to get better? Yeah. But it also opened up opportunities for me to train with other people across the country or, you know, as, you know, the head instructor of that dojo, you know, um, I got to expand my knowledge by going to train and going to camps. Camps I can't say enough of, you know, it's, it's those, those are the places where I've
You know, made lifelong friends. Those are the places where I've, I've learned the most or had the, the biggest leaps in knowledge at any one time. Um, going to, you know, I've, you know, gone to camps in, uh, Canada. I've gone to camps in North Carolina, California, uh, you name it. I, if I can go to a camp, I will. But yeah, but that's how that, you know, being put in that position gave me the opportunity to go those places.
because it was also part of my job, so my expenses were taken care of.
Jeremy (25:16.047)
Oh no, I have to travel to go to this weekend long camp, sorry.
Gregory Williams (25:21.075)
Exactly. So yeah, it did help progress. Yeah. And so yeah, then I continued with that dojo. Got my black belt. 94. Yeah, 1994.
Jeremy (25:33.596)
How was that handled?
Gregory Williams (25:36.869)
How do you mean?
Jeremy (25:38.739)
The, well, I mean, I'm guessing you didn't promote yourself.
Gregory Williams (25:42.399)
No, no, so to be fair. I was head instructor but I there was a dojo owner who was Definitely so the he was definitely. Yeah, there was definitely somebody above me. Um, I was the person They give it as uh, you know break it up a card, you know The the number one if you will, um, but not that cool, uh
Jeremy (25:45.742)
Mm-hmm.
Okay, okay, I missed that piece. Got it.
Jeremy (26:07.786)
Can we just take a moment? If Patrick Stewart was going to teach martial arts, number one, I would train with him regardless of what it was. But number two.
Gregory Williams (26:09.948)
Sure.
Gregory Williams (26:17.394)
Mm-hmm.
Oh, I know the martial art he would have. I know the martial art. Make it though.
Jeremy (26:21.743)
What would he be teaching?
Jeremy (26:28.078)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Gregory Williams (26:30.324)
Sorry.
Jeremy (26:38.392)
Half of the audience thought that was hysterical. The other half does not get the joke and we're not going to explain it because even if we do you won't find it funny. So that was brilliant.
Gregory Williams (26:53.063)
dad jokes. They're the best. I probably ruined your train of thought though.
Jeremy (26:54.514)
Love it. I love it. I love it. There, I, oh, for sure. But I'm thinking of a few people. Andrew is one of them. Andrew's gonna listen to this and he's probably going to stop the recording because he's going to laugh that hard. That's my guess. And I'm thinking of a few others who also appreciate a good dad joke. So thank you. Thank you for that. Actually, our social team hopefully grabs that and runs with that as a meme because it, you know, give you full credit. I'm gonna.
Gregory Williams (27:09.459)
Thanks for watching.
Gregory Williams (27:19.495)
Hahaha
Gregory Williams (27:23.251)
Alright, well we were talking about Patrick Stewart, so you had a thought.
Jeremy (27:26.418)
All right, hold on. No, I'm making note of that. Make it dough. There we go. All right, hopefully somebody will run with that. Rewind, rewind, where were we?
Gregory Williams (27:29.075)
Thanks for watching!
Gregory Williams (27:37.959)
No.
Gregory Williams (27:42.311)
Patrick Stewart, if he was doing martial arts. All right.
Jeremy (27:44.938)
Yeah, but before that.
before that. You were the number one at the school. That's where we were. Okay. Did you have any, you know, we might today call it imposter syndrome. Did you have moments where you're like, I can't do this?
Gregory Williams (27:51.53)
Yes, yes.
Gregory Williams (28:03.871)
little bit. I think everybody has that when they're put in a position of authority. You know, even to this day, you know, I'll teach at my instructor's school and you get that imposter syndrome for a moment and then you just let it go. Just teach them karate. You know, let's just do it. So
Jeremy (28:09.326)
Sure.
Jeremy (28:32.558)
So what I'm hearing, and especially if we think about the time that this is happening, right? Like doing some rough math.
We're talking about this stuff happening in the 90s, when cross training was really just starting to happen. It wasn't broadly accepted. But what I think I'm hearing is as you're going to these camps, there may be not all the style that you train, that you're pulling stuff from other places. And so speak to that.
Gregory Williams (29:01.965)
Oh, definitely not.
So yeah, go ahead. So yeah, these camps, you know, you know, my style is Sean Rue, Sean Conn. And, you know, going to that camp, that's who's hosting the camp. But we have, you know, Ishin Rue guys, you know, we got Rute guys, we got, you know, Kempo Karate guys, you got Matsubayashi Sean Rue, you got, it was, you know, a hodgepodge. It was, you know, a bunch of basically,
It was a bunch of Marines who had learned karate in Okinawa and had different styles, come back to the United States, and you get to meet somebody. Oh, you were a Marine? Oh, you did karate? And then they become friends, and they start holding camps, and then they start bringing people from their associations down, and you get this nice mix of people that are doing different things, but when you boil it down, it's the same thing, right?
It's only so many ways the human body moves. We're just picking a different way. It's always picking a different way. And in the end, we're ending up the same spot.
Jeremy (30:12.386)
Did you have any moments as you were going to these camps where you went, this makes so much more sense or I have to stop doing this in this way, you know, light bulb moments, epiphanies.
Gregory Williams (30:24.479)
Oh yeah, absolutely. I remember going to one of my first camps in North Carolina and that's where I learned, like what's Tuite? What's Kyusha? What's, sure.
Jeremy (30:40.054)
for folks who don't come from Japanese traditions, if you could just define those terms loosely.
Gregory Williams (30:45.635)
Sure, tuite is just, you know, grappling, you know, joint locks, more specifically, where kyushu is vital point striking, you know, hitting those parts of the body that hurt more in layman's terms. But, you know, that wasn't something we, you know, had been thinking about at that point in our time. As I said, it was more kickboxing than anything else. And then that's where those, you know, epiphany moments happened. And you see people, you know,
grabbing people's hands out of the air. Oh my gosh, how did he do that? Did he really grab somebody's hand out of the air? No, he hit the pause button on that human being really hard. But it was, yeah, those moments were very, very eye-opening. And I think those were the moments in learning those, I don't wanna say magical, but those techniques, special things that
Jeremy (31:41.806)
special.
Gregory Williams (31:45.783)
stayed with me because there's going to be a point if we go on this story where I have a gap in my training and it's those moments those things that really swirled around in my brain during that gap of time where I was not training karate that pulled me back you know like yeah
Jeremy (32:08.67)
Well, let's get to that gap because I can already tell there's some powerful stuff in there. So, you know, let's follow that timeline to that point. How do we get there?
Gregory Williams (32:12.113)
worth.
Gregory Williams (32:18.023)
Sure, so got my black belt in 94. Decided, and I knew I was gonna go to college. I hadn't gone to college at this point. I knew I was gonna go to college. I just, I knew I was smart enough to know that I was too dumb for college at the time. You know, just wasn't mature enough in that regard. So in 95, went back to college. And that had me step away from that job. Still trained, still went.
but I was no longer a head instructor. I had to focus on college, which during those college years, great. I trained, I continued to progress, got my second degree, black belt. And that went on until I graduated from college in 2000 because everybody knows a four-year degree takes five years. And when I graduated in 2000, things happened real fast. I got a job, moved away, got married.
had kids and I was in a place, you know, I moved to Maryland and I'm isolated. I'm with my wife at the time, two young kids trying to find training, but not having the time. I'm trying to build a career. I'm trying to manage two little kids. I'm trying to be my friend to my wife because we don't have anybody down there. So karate drifts away.
I find you know place to do maybe a little boxing a little boxing like why things like that But Wasn't able to train and I would go to places you walk in and you get that Feeling you know that this is not where I want to be You know are there golden arches, you know in the background You know the places and or you walk into a place and it's just like
Well, that's cool. I don't think I can do that. You know, I don't think I can do Wing Chun. I'm not built like that, you know? So, not to disparage Wing Chun.
Jeremy (34:23.358)
Or it's just not what you're looking for. It's not the fit. No, no, I recorded an episode earlier today where the guest was talking about that in almost a musical quality that you could just kind of.
Gregory Williams (34:38.309)
Oh, nice.
Jeremy (34:42.05)
feel slash hear the cadence of the class. And then it just didn't sound, and for those listening versus watching, I'm using air quotes, that the sound, it didn't quite sound right. And you've been around long enough, and I suspect a number of folks in the audience have as well too, know exactly what he's talking about. That there's a resonance, a vibration, an energy, whatever you wanna call it,
the type of class you're looking for.
Gregory Williams (35:13.027)
Right. Definitely.
Jeremy (35:15.018)
and you know it when you see it.
Gregory Williams (35:18.379)
Exactly. And, and maybe it was a little bit of I feel spoiled by what I had seen before. Maybe that was just me with blinders on I don't know. But as I said, it was those moments I had seen before that kept resonating in my brain.
Jeremy (46:55.306)
All right, everyone. So we have a little bit of technical difficulty there and we're back on track. So.
Jeremy (47:09.466)
You were in Maryland, you said, looking for where you might call your next martial arts home and kind of striking out. So I'll pass the ball back to you.
Gregory Williams (47:13.544)
Yeah, let me in Maryland.
Gregory Williams (47:25.188)
Right and you know, it was many things it was not finding some place that sparked joy in me or you know, and it was also just Exactly and Just not having the time with two little kids and uh, You know building a career and just it, you know, I don't want to say I don't want to make excuses. It's just that's you know
Jeremy (47:33.442)
The Marie Kondo martial arts path.
Gregory Williams (47:54.104)
Well here I have a question for you. What's the hardest part of a joke?
Jeremy (48:02.334)
knowing when to tell it. Timing, yeah.
Gregory Williams (48:03.104)
timing. Hence the pause but a bump. Sorry for those that long pause there. Um but yeah, it just wasn't the right timing and you know, eventually moved back to New England where we were happy. Um to a couple years and then
You know got my dad bought on and decided you know what I miss it I would have karate dreams. I would dream about karate. I'd be dreaming. I was doing kata or dreaming I was you know sparring and I just I knew I had to get back um, and You know, I had a friend he had a dojo in Rhode Island. Um, he's actually been on this show. He's my sensei is uh, Dave Aarons, um and uh Kyoshi Dave Aarons, I don't want to
demotive there. And, you know, I had, you know, hadn't seen him in a while, I had to walk in that door. And that's, that's really hard. You know, for anybody who's taking a break from the martial arts, especially if it's, you know, extended, to walk in that door is really hard. 12 years is it's roughly 12 years. So from 2000 to 2012. You know, I, I trained on my own. But did I progress? No.
Jeremy (49:08.948)
How long was that break for you?
Jeremy (49:17.847)
time.
Gregory Williams (49:22.364)
You know, I maintained, you know, I maintained what I had learned, or as much as I hope. There was certainly some rust on there. But when I got on the floor, oh, no, I got on the floor and I was doing the katas just like everybody else, a few spots that had been, you know, misaligned along the way on my part. Had to get shaped back up.
Jeremy (49:31.202)
but not as much rust as there could have been. And I think that that's an important thing to acknowledge.
Gregory Williams (49:49.628)
So I've been, I've been actually training with him since 2012. I live in New Hampshire. He's in Rhode Island. I drive two hours down on a one day a week, uh, train for three hours, drive two hours back and been doing that for 12 years, 12 years in January this year. And then I, of course, you know, training my own, I have a few of my own students and private privately, and then, uh, teach at camps and train at camps. And we've been doing that ever since, but yeah, walking in the door. That's.
That's tough.
Jeremy (50:20.03)
Talk about that. You know, it's one thing when someone takes a break after they earn their blue belt. They train a year or two. Or maybe they even train three years. Or somebody moves across the country and they start a completely different style. Or they train as a kid and then they train as an adult. They don't generally have the awareness.
Gregory Williams (50:31.893)
Okay.
Jeremy (50:47.634)
of I'm going to call it the loss because you've been training long enough that this was something so important you were dreaming about it this was fundamental to who you not only from my external perspective who you were but who I suspect you saw yourself as that you were depriving yourself of a big part of who you were what was that first time back that first class back like
Gregory Williams (51:09.615)
Oh, oh, definitely.
Gregory Williams (51:18.888)
Embarrassing, right? You know, here I was years ago, you know, thinner, stronger, faster, hair, had hair, and walking in that door, yeah, dribble. But also exhilarating, you know, getting back into it. It helped that I was welcomed, you know?
Jeremy (51:32.782)
For the audience, we share a hairstyle.
Gregory Williams (51:48.656)
it helped that, you know, there were people there that I knew from, you know, so the person I trained with was also came from the same place as me. You know, we came from the same martial arts style. We, you know, he was an instructor at the place I was at before I became an instructor. So there was, you know, certainly the same martial arts, but there was also people there that I knew. Interestingly enough, people who now outranked me that I used to teach and...
Talk about having to check your own ego. There's someone who has a white belt who now owns a dojo. I taught them as a white belt, now they're owning a dojo. And what do you do? How do you act? How do you cope with that? And really it's like, you gotta realize, why am I comparing myself to them? Only person I should be comparing myself to is me.
Jeremy (52:27.371)
Yeah.
Gregory Williams (52:48.36)
The person that was a minute ago, the person that was an hour ago, the person that was yesterday. It's not about them. It's not about, you know, they've made choices that led them there. All power to them, so happy for them. I love where they are. I just have to worry about where I am. And again, check my own ego and, you know, Sensei, they're my Sensei now. So learn from them and be mature, be an adult.
and get over it, right? That's hard, but what's the other option? Close myself off from them or be upset with them because they had a different path and they are where they are? No, that's closed-minded. That's childish, selfish, right? Because it's just sort of anyway.
Jeremy (53:42.51)
doesn't serve anyone, but it's also understandable. There's a tremendous amount of vulnerability required in doing that and sadly a lot of people don't have the conviction to be able to do what you did. I'm sure you know some folks, I have these conversations with people, I don't wanna say all the time, but often enough, yeah, I used to train, you know, and it's that 10, 12, 15 year sort of thing. You can train again.
Yeah, but... and then, you know, there's always this list of excuses. I'd have to start over. I, you know, like, I'm not in as good of shape. I forgot this. It's a different style. I don't want to learn from people I used to teach. They knew me with hair. You know, whatever it might be.
Gregory Williams (54:27.602)
Right.
Gregory Williams (54:31.996)
There's a quote I remember, I'll paraphrase it, and I can't remember who said it, but I can't go back to the past, I can't go back to the beginning. I can only start from where I am now. What it can affect is the ending, right? I can affect what's going on from now forward. I can't worry about what happened before. I can't change that. I just gotta start now and worry about wherever my path takes me.
Gregory Williams (55:03.38)
Maybe it was CS Lewis, something like that.
Jeremy (55:03.518)
Yeah. It sounds familiar. You know, the interesting thing, and whether we're talking about martial arts or really anything, it is so incredibly rare that the reality of the, let's call it fear, I mean, that's really what it is, that the fear of that action, that the reality of the fear is warranted. Could there be people in the room who look at you and go, oh, where's this guy been? Sure.
Gregory Williams (55:23.268)
Oh, yeah.
Jeremy (55:32.854)
But what's more likely to happen? You're welcomed with, oh my God, where have you been? We've missed you, right? That it, it's a 10 to one, it's a hundred to one, that it's more that. And it's really, it is, it's our own ego that gets in the way. And I've had some opportunities to step back in with some groups that I've known over the years. And some in martial arts, some out of martial arts. And it's always worthwhile.
Gregory Williams (55:39.558)
Exactly.
Jeremy (56:00.17)
No, it doesn't mean I always stay. It doesn't mean that it's permanent. Doesn't mean that some of my concerns weren't realized. But I'm beating this drum for the moment because I hear from people periodically that one of the ways that some people will get back into their training is they engage with this show. They watch the show. They listen to the show and they hear the stories and it provides motivation and it reminds me.
if you think back, we're both old enough, double dutch on the playground, right? And people on the side and they're do, they're trying to get the timing right. And they just hang out in that, in that, that jump pattern. And I hope. It was for those of you old enough to get my, my metaphor here. I hope you just jump in because the ropes don't hurt as bad when they hit you as you think they are. It's not as big of a deal.
Gregory Williams (56:31.816)
Thank you.
Gregory Williams (56:49.364)
Right.
Jeremy (56:54.978)
The longer you wait, the harder it is. And it's, you know, even that extra day, that one extra class that you might get is worthwhile. Just do it.
Gregory Williams (56:55.802)
Well, you know
Gregory Williams (57:06.368)
Well, they're just putting that door between them and someplace great, right? And another quote, you can't save time, you can only spend it, right? You gotta take those moments as they come. You gotta, you know, tomorrow may not ever happen. You know, if I keep pushing things off, pushing things off or letting my fear, my ego, my...
Jeremy (57:19.054)
Mmm.
powerful.
Gregory Williams (57:36.164)
insecurities, you know, hold me back. How much have you wasted? You know, and just take that step. If there's somebody out there listening to this and they haven't been, you know, they're in the martial arts in a while and they really want to get back. They're afraid. You know what? There's going to be somebody out there who wants you who wants to work with you.
Wants to see you walk through that door and give you a big smile And then they're gonna want to kick you really hard and thank you for it
Jeremy (58:12.15)
because we are a weird group. Martial arts schools, if for the folks out there, if you've not been part of a number of schools, you might not have connected these dots, but Greg, I'm sure you have. That the best martial arts schools are the result of the best people in martial arts being in that school. If you are someone who has something to contribute, and I don't mean necessarily standing at the front of the room, if you show up with a smile or...
Gregory Williams (58:15.365)
We are a weird group.
Jeremy (58:41.406)
a well-timed joke, or you enjoy getting banged and bruised up and being a good partner. All that is so incredibly valuable. And the more of that exists in a school, the better everyone's experience from the first day white belt to the head instructor. And so even if you don't have an official role, what you bring to the class has value. Don't second guess that.
Gregory Williams (59:10.068)
And let's face facts. A dojo isn't just students. A dojo is parents of students. A dojo is a family, it's a community. And it's not always the people that are practicing the martial arts. It's everybody there, right? There's a lot of friendships to be made that don't have you crossing hands with somebody. You know, right? There's people out there that...
are my dear friends and I met them through karate and they've never done karate a day in their life. It's community.
Jeremy (59:51.894)
what to what we have a we have a lull because we just wrapped up something so big and so powerful and the idea of just
Gregory Williams (59:54.492)
We have a lull in the conversation.
Jeremy (01:00:03.414)
moving on to the next thing just seems so hollow timing, right? You said that you have private students. What was the decision to, to make that your method of passing on the information rather than the more traditional method of opening a school and, you know, two days a week come at this time.
Gregory Williams (01:00:28.116)
So saturation is the answer. Where I live, there are over 20 martial arts schools. Over 20, and yeah. So I could open one, sure.
Jeremy (01:00:37.654)
You do have a lot in your area.
Jeremy (01:00:42.014)
I'd say close to a good third of those folks, I think, have been on this show. Several of them have been on the show. I know a few people have been. And then I know of some that have not been on the show.
Gregory Williams (01:00:49.824)
There's a lot of people doing martial arts in this. So yeah, I mean, this is not where I'm gonna end up permanently in life. I'll move from, I'm not sure, as I said earlier, I'm getting married soon. Cheap plug there. And...
Jeremy (01:01:08.586)
We should get your registry on the show notes. Ha ha ha.
Gregory Williams (01:01:11.584)
No, all good. But, you know, I'll be moving somewhere and, you know, on the horizon someday, I would like to have, you know, my own dojo. I'd love to retire doing that. I love to do karate for the rest of my life and just teach students and, you know, pass on the art and keep kicking until the day I die.
Jeremy (01:01:21.594)
Hmm.
Jeremy (01:01:25.367)
Hmm.
Jeremy (01:01:36.194)
Yeah, that's awesome. So if we get together, you know, in 10, let's say 10 years, and, you know, you've opened, you've moved somewhere, you've opened a school, what do you wanna say about that school?
Gregory Williams (01:01:56.528)
I would love it to be a place where people are happy to go. I would love it to be a place that people find, you know, other enlightened souls who love doing what we do and a place people feel safe, right? I mean, that's what, you know, people won't go places they don't feel safe, you know, or scared to go there. I want people to be able to walk in.
and see me and know that, you know, hey, everything's gonna be okay. You know, Greg's gonna make a joke. He's gonna do a silly dad joke or he's gonna do something, but it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be a welcoming place. And that's what I'd like. That's what I'd like. Yeah.
Jeremy (01:02:45.362)
If people want to connect with you, you know, are you on social media? Any, anything? Do you have a website, anything you want to? Okay.
Gregory Williams (01:02:51.94)
You can find me on Facebook. If nothing I want to plug. No. Um, like a, uh, shout out to my instructors, dojo, east coast karate, uh, Rhode Island. If you're in that area and you're looking for a great place to train, come on down.
Jeremy (01:03:09.078)
I don't remember what episode he was on, but maybe Andrew will get it in the show notes for us. People wanna follow that tree. At some point, we're gonna have to make like a martial arts family tree with episodes because we can do that. Yeah.
Gregory Williams (01:03:22.798)
That would be interesting. Is it like the order you're supposed to watch the Star Wars movies in or you know, you should pull them in this order.
Jeremy (01:03:29.35)
Oh, that's...
That gets people.
Jeremy (01:03:36.166)
Star Wars fans might be the worst fans in terms of the vitriol that comes through at times.
Gregory Williams (01:03:37.364)
The mighty community.
Gregory Williams (01:03:50.98)
and I feel it myself. And that's a whole episode we could have just on Star Wars.
Jeremy (01:03:55.562)
We could. We could. We you know, it's funny. We the number of times we've talked about Star Wars on the show, the Princess Bride. What else has come up a lot? Obviously, Ninja Turtles. Really?
Gregory Williams (01:04:06.076)
Oh, that's how I met my fiance.
Gregory Williams (01:04:12.484)
Yeah, Princess Bride, another swashbuckling. Well, it's not overly exciting. Sure, of course. We met through a dating site as modern people do and my screen name was As You Wish. And, you know, her being a fan of the movie, she had been hiding in the background, waiting for somebody to, you know, engage with because you don't wanna be a woman on these sites, I feel for them. And she...
Jeremy (01:04:15.023)
You gotta tell that story. If you don't mind. That's okay.
Jeremy (01:04:38.85)
This is what I've heard.
Gregory Williams (01:04:41.756)
reached out to me and the rest is history.
Jeremy (01:04:44.846)
Oh, that's great. I love that. Congratulations. We, you know, we went through this phase. It was probably about six months where the sword fight scene And you know the one anybody was seen the princess bride knows the one Where that was held up as the best fight scene Where just we just ended up with these guests from all over and probably half a dozen of them point out They just said that fight scene, you know folks who had been in movies and things. This is the one
Gregory Williams (01:04:56.211)
Okay.
Gregory Williams (01:05:15.856)
that are the dualists, right? That's the other one people reference.
Jeremy (01:05:16.326)
Why often? Hmm. Yeah. Alright.
Gregory Williams (01:05:22.472)
But yeah, amazing fighting and fun. Fun, that's what soft watch buckling is, right? Fun.
Jeremy (01:05:26.891)
Yes.
Jeremy (01:05:31.818)
Well, I appreciate you being here in just a moment. I'm going to ask you to close us up. But thanks for your time and for your willingness to just be so open about things and navigate technical difficulties with me. But this is, we're going to close up. Yeah. The gremlins don't, don't get your computer wet. That's definitely not going to make the situation better. Um, and don't stuff food into it after midnight. I'm not really sure. I think the.
Gregory Williams (01:05:44.856)
The gremlins.
Gregory Williams (01:05:52.183)
Thank you.
Jeremy (01:05:58.57)
I think the metaphor starts to fall apart. We are, we are. If this wasn't my third of the day, then I might be able to pull it back, but Gremlin references, yeah. But this is your episode, and so I'm gonna ask you to close us up. What do you wanna say to the audience? How do you wanna leave things with them today?
Gregory Williams (01:05:59.56)
we're going down a really bad tangent hole.
Gregory Williams (01:06:10.624)
Hahaha
Gregory Williams (01:06:26.996)
Get off the couch, go train. Go do it. That's it, go train. Whatever it is, BJJ, karate, boxing, get off your butt, go train.