Episode 738 - Master Matt Nather

Master Matt Nather is a Martial Arts practitioner and instructor from the Philadelphia area.

I’ve said it a lot over the years, I’d rather have a school with 10-15 students that I know who are going to put the effort to become as great as they could be, rather than having a hundred students that make me want to go home and bang my head on the wall.

Master Matt Nather - Episode 738

In this episode, Master Matt talks about his journey to martial arts and how he found his passion as an instructor, especially for children. He also talks about his testing for a 4th degree belt. Listen to learn more! Listen to learn more!

Show Transcript

You can read the transcript below.

Jeremy Lesniak:

What's going on everybody? Welcome. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, Episode 738, with my guest today, Master Matt Nather. I'm Jeremy Lesniak, I'm your host here for the show. I founded whistlekick, because I love traditional martial arts. And I wanted to support and connect with other traditional martial artists. And if you look at all the things that we do, you will see that thread running through all of it. And the best place to find all the things that we're doing. Whistlekick.com, one of the things over there is our store. It's one of the many ways that we cover our expenses and try to grow this company. And if you find something over there, you're like, throw in the code PODCAST15, when you check out, you can save some money. If you picked up a swag pack, a random assortment of cool stickers and other flat things we can mail to you in an envelope inexpensively. It's $5. So go to whistlekick.com. Get a swag bag for five bucks. And you're also going to get at least $5 back in a coupon for your next order. anywhere from five to 100 bucks. Yep, we make it fun. 

The show, the Podcast, Martial Arts Radio, it gets us on the website. whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. Because we name things very simply over here, you're gonna find two episodes each and every week, they get their own page with transcripts and more at that website with the goal of connecting, educating, entertaining, the traditional martial artists worldwide. If you are also passionate, or at least acknowledge the value of that mission, please consider supporting us with a purchase with a share and mention. I don't know what whatever works for you, you know, we've got a Patreon that you can contribute to and get a ton of good stuff back everything from merch to exclusive episodes. And if you want the entire list of all things you can do to help us out. It's whistlekick.com/family. 

All right now today's guests are somebody I've known for a while. This is one of those people who popped up early on whistlekick days. And I feel like I know him well. But at the same time I don't. Because we've not actually met in person, though, by the time this airs that will have changed. Timing is funny. Sometimes. Master Matt Nather is one of those people that I know I can go to if I want a strong opinion. And to some people, that might be a criticism. But if you know me coming for me, that is a compliment. I really appreciate this man's support of our mission, his contributions to our efforts. 

And I was absolutely honored to get the opportunity to sit down and chat with him and learn more about his journey. And no surprise, a lot of synchronicity here, between what he's experienced and what I did. So here we go. How's it going, man? All right. Well, I mean, you've, you've listened to episodes, you've been around a while. I don't want to do an episode that feels repetitious. For you, where I asked, you know, roughly the same questions that I know you've heard answered quite a few times. So, let's see if we can mix it up a bit.

Matt Nather:

While I talk so we can grow whatever questions I'll answer. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

And that's one of the things that I've noticed about you. Whenever we have a discussion topic come up in any of the various things, you generally have a strong opinion, that's fair to say. Now, I don't I don't say that in any kind of a negative way. Because you always have behind that strong opinion, really seems to be a lot of thoughtfulness. Now, I don't know if when the subject comes up, you go off and you spend time thinking and come back. But you've always struck me as someone who feels strongly about the things that they have opinions on, because they have invested time and energy, forming those opinions.

Matt Nather:

Usually, sometimes it's like a lot of your questions, but when I get home from work, Jenny will be like, hey, shoot me or it's like I'm walking in the door, so my mind is still in work mode. And I just had the catches right on or I'll pick whatever opinion is against hers. To get the ideas out, okay. Sometimes I want to hear what her thought processes are because I know you've noticed both pretty well at this point. We're very sensitive to everything.

Jeremy Lesniak:

So it's fair to say that you appreciate not just…

Matt Nather:

I'm very open to a lot of things. I have a lot of experience with a lot of different things. I think you might be one of the few people trained in as many different styles as I have, even if they were brief. Like, I think in the two year span I have a hard problem. So I wasn't allowed to teach anything, and my boss found out. 

So I trained in about a dozen different styles. And that two year span lasted for close to a year. So I just got a lot of outside input. And there was a lot of I don't make it sound like foreigners, but like, I had two guys from Brazil that were teaching me Jiujitsu and Muay Thai, I had a guy from somewhere else. Bet brought in this other random file, I couldn't tell you what it was.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Now, we've talked about cross training. And you know, we've beaten that subject, I don't want to say to death, but I think everyone out there, even if they haven't listened to conversations , understands the dichotomy there. 

Either you put all of your time into one thing, or you put the same amount of time into a variety of things, we can imagine what those outcomes look like. But when people cross train, you're usually talking about, I'm going to do this other thing, or I'm going to train these two things simultaneously. 

If someone's going to train in a whole bunch of things, it doesn't even have to be a dozen, but like even more than three or four, in such a short period of time, I don't imagine that's by accident. No, I mean, that was something that you sought out to do. 

Matt Nather:

Once my boss found out and was like, I really can't let you do this until the doctor clears you. I think you got to kind of leave with a strong opinion, I teach teaching, it's kind of become my biggest passion on anything. 

If I want to keep something, I want it to be the most efficient, whether it's ABC, or whether it's things like portable, every different style, every style has been based on a good accent. But behind why and how application varies. So every scenario, whatever application I want to be able to give as much as I can get.

Jeremy Lesniak:

That approach suggests an openness that was likely instilled at some point, somebody at some point told you to be really open to a variety of opinions. Where did that come from?

Matt Nather:

I had a lot of bosses that are very narrow minded. That approach. I actually had an argument with my boss this morning or last night, however you want to look at it, about the same thing. Because I have been but I also have a very realistic expectation of how things are gonna fall into play or and are just, you know, it's this every time. 

Like, no. Have you not been there? Have you not experienced more than, you know, looking at paperwork, signing the deal? How can you implement something on the floor? If all you see is burnouts, not the people. You're another team. You're with the scenario.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yeah, so to say it another way your openness is in defiance of being told this is the right way? And you want to determine for yourself if that is in fact the right way you are generally unwilling to accept, do it this way. Because I said so. That's not in your nature.

Matt Nather:

I want to know why. Even if I don't agree with why there should be a reason behind whatever you do.

Jeremy Lesniak:

And is that your attitude in all avenues of your life? Or is that..?

Matt Nather:

Pretty much. People tend to either really enjoy my personality, or they're very turned off by it. There's not much middle ground. I think that's actually what's meant to be with you the first handful of times we thought,

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yeah, yeah, you and I are very similar in that. He bounced back

Matt Nather:

He bounced back and forth and changed sides. Just to get the other opinion again.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Where did martial arts start for you?

Matt Nather:

So according to my mother…

Jeremy Lesniak:

You got to ask her if you're going back a long way.

Matt Nather:

Yeah. I wanted to be a ninja turtle. I don't remember much of that. As a kid. I remember a lot more power rangers. Okay, but in kindergarten I had a friend Jim, who did karate and my best friend and for years I tried to try to kind of shut that off. And then somewhere around the age of 10. There was a budding idea before. And he brought me in. I got a uniform that night. That was it.

Jeremy Lesniak:

If you're starting at 10, I imagine you have some at least vague memory of what it felt like. You might not remember technique, but I find people often will remember emotional content. Do you remember how you felt in that early martial arts endeavor?

Matt Nather:

I don't remember much about the bloody night. But my first class was actually the next morning. And the class was me and one other new suit. Like we are a school class. And the instructor was Robin Walker, who actually probably ended up becoming one of my biggest inspirations and started being an instructor who taught me to fall in love with teaching. 

Which is really funny, because my talk for now is that her whole personality has changed now that she's teaching all the time. But it was a lot of just high energy. She wanted to see what we could do because we were young kids, we're both the same age. And we're kind of slightly ordered that we're kind of coming to the cost of that. 

Man straight that comes out of nowhere. Yeah, she likes to play with that idea. So just what kind of noise and get the pads and make the bagging do pop. Have you really jumped today? We did a lot of jumping kicks for our first class, which has instructors now. I'm like really timeless, like Oh, my God that's slated.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Just remember, tired kids are easier to listen to. If they are physically exhausted, but still engaged, they're less likely to act out by experience.

Matt Nather:

I'm actually working on a little dragon class at my school with five year olds, from my favorite class forever. But everywhere I've taught it's already kind of been established. So the kids have someone else to kind of follow or pull from, but because they're all brand new, they all have no idea of structure. 

And with COVID the last few years, Kid interactions have been very minimal. This is new and exciting to share stories with each other because kids are new to each other that aren't sevens. Well, I can give myself a little karate thing to make starting with a lot of relay races balanced as drills or games, just to burn that initial excitement down, we can focus a little bit.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yeah, I've always enjoyed watching the way people teach that younger age group, because you see some dramatically different approaches. And the one that I think works the best is kind of what you're talking about, like, you know, let's forget about teaching them overly structured forms and one steps and all these things and rather just getting them to do basic physical things, can they can they balance, can they identify, you know, left from right, and set them up for their next their next class when they're, six years old?

Matt Nather:

That's actually exactly what the program that I saw in my brain, lay people in the office. There is karate involved. But those buddies, you're still learning how to work your body. So we're gonna learn a little bit. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Remember kids that age fall over for no reason.

Matt Nather:

And they think it's fun. So we played with that idea a little too. But it's, they learned how to focus and learn what focus is. What is respect? Oh, can I use that? 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Oh, absolutely. 

Matt Nather:

Like you kicked another, someone put their shoes away on their own, like incorporating that with a little bit of learning how to turn your body and I kind of care a little bit less of what it looks like but as they get closer, like a cup of moving up into like a normal basic class. I don't push a whole lot on what they look like, as long as they understand what they're kind of supposed to do.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Did I hear you say that? This is like your favorite class to teach? 

Matt Nather:

Yeah. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Why?

Matt Nather:

The personalities are so wrong. There's not that influence that I can be embarrassed about. I'm afraid it will happen. It's always like, every time they come into our first class, I'm excited to be here every time. I don't, it doesn't matter what we do here. And then the question.

Jeremy Lesniak:

It's raw, and it's real. And I think people that teach those classes, love them or hate them for that reason, that it's so raw.

Matt Nather:

I feel the same way. There's a small middle ground, but if you get excited to see them or you want to cry, but you know, it's yeah, we got to do it. Well, my favorite class since I started DJing. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

If you think back to the first times you were teaching that age group, right? Like, I think we all remember. Oh, whether it was intentional or not, and teaching a class of lots of very small ones.

Matt Nather:

Like a blue belt. So like a year and a half to two years of training at that point. So I learned I started assisting very early on because of when my brother started training. So I was getting ready to start learning in that class. And it was my first time with that class. And we had a super upset parent. So the head doctor pulled them into the office and said, “I'll be right now”. And that was my first time meeting these kids. I had no clue what their curriculum was. At this young kid sitting there, like, they all were, like a kid on some baby face. And I'm like, Oh my God, it was the worst class I've ever taught. Because I was just so not ready for that.

Jeremy Lesniak:

So how old were you? Start there?

Matt Nather:

Well, maybe 13.

Jeremy Lesniak:

So, this is not long after what we heard from you before. Did you have them do it?

Matt Nather:

We did. Jumping jacks. Well, a three year old idea of a jumping back shot. We did some stretches. I had them try to do a punching exercise. Just horseback standing putting punches out there. And I think I stretched that out for almost 25 minutes. And then I know they ended with a game. So I called one of the other people from the next class. I'll be waiting in the back to help me try to do like dodgeball with them. Which still didn't really go very well, because I didn't know her name or anything really, just kind of what they told me at the beginning of class. So I'm like you, we got you. You're out. What happens now?

Jeremy Lesniak:

Now, you said it was the worst class you've ever taught? But was it fun? Did the kids have fun?

Matt Nather:

They seem more confused, because I didn't know who I was. I didn't know what was going on. Like, they weren't new to the class. But because I was new. I was still stumbling upon words and trying to figure out who they were and how to approach that age group for teaching. Like I have younger siblings, but to me that was different. So it just wasn't well, it was almost like you have a substitute teacher do even at that age. And you give them a hard time to see how they'll react. So you're not my instructor when.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I have to do this. You're not the boss of me. I'm not gonna listen to you. 

Matt Nather:

Yeah, exactly. But now I look at it. And I laugh really hard, because I've had an awful class, and I'm like, it's still gonna make me feel like that.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I've learned over the years when I'm teaching anybody but especially young kids, and I'm sure you feel the same way. As long as you own the room. And you keep the energy level up. Everything else. It's not even secondary, it's tertiary you can do anything you want. If you are confident, and energetic, usually, if I teach a kids class, my voice is gone by the end of the hour.

Matt Nather:

Yeah, so I feel most nice. Sometimes I get home and my wife looks at me like what's wrong with you? Oh, I didn't want to go and you jumped in tonight.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yelling at children for an hour is great.

Matt Nather:

But it's nice because they're still young enough. Whatever bike you give off, they're just gonna pick it up, even if it's not what they wanted. Even if they come in, like, oh, I was outside all day, it was fine. I don't want to be here. But the moment you just jump, you get excited. And they're like, okay, let's go.

Jeremy Lesniak:

For sure. If you're excited, they'll be excited because they don't know any better. So we're seeing a bit of a theme going here early on teaching, currently teaching but we've got some middle that we've got to fill in there. So you know, less than a couple of years in your blue belt. You're assisting with classes and even though you said it was the worst class you ever taught. Sounds like it went pretty darn well. Oh, to me…

Matt Nather:

It could have been worse. I mean, or could have gone better, but it still wasn't like, hey, parents are pulling their kid from the school. There was a lot of pushback, not a whole lot out there because I didn't have a whole lot of effort to put in. I was imminent. But after that, actually, I'm gonna backtrack school lightly. 

It might have been like six months before then. Because my brother would say his lessons before mine on Saturday morning, like an early instructor, Robin Walker would pull me on the floor to help assess and do things. And I fell in love with that thought. And the idea of learning how to do that. So as a green belt, I actually asked my instructor for teaching in the middle of a class.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Oh, okay. Like, you raise your hand and you're like can I have a job I want to teach.

Matt Nather:

But like, I walked over, I've never been afraid to hear the word no. So this I went for it was like, when you get your black belt, we'll talk slightly more. I got a lot of experience in assisting up to that point. For a while, I felt like I was at the school four or five nights a week. Even if I didn't train, I was just there. 

I hang in the lobby, I assist the classes they live in. At the time, there were a lot more kids classes, and then adult classes. I feel like in the last 10 years, most voices kind of moved, like the family vibe of it to an adult train together. 

Like places in this area. I'm seeing more of that. So anytime it was a kids class, I'd assist, depending on who showed up, I would love to help the adult brain, mainly because of rank.

Jeremy Lesniak:

So as someone who's doing a lot of teaching now, and you look back at all that assistant instruction, because honestly, this is something that I find to be very polarizing. In the martial arts, I've trained with instructors who, on day two, they've got you teaching day one people.

Matt Nather:

All these people in class, but if I'm gonna have an actual assistant for the class, have at least one rank of bulk.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Sure to totally understand. But there's the other extreme. And I think we've already foreshadowed sounds like you're in the middle, but I'll finish asking the question anyway. And then you've got people who say, you know what unless you are whatever standard, black belt second degree, black belt fifth degree, black belt, you shouldn't be teaching anyone anything? Because you don't have all of the as many of the answers you don't have the details, how important to who you are as an instructor now, was that time as an assistant instructor?

Matt Nather:

I don't think I've ever really been close. I mean, now if you're in class, usually I don't do the same rank, I'll do the next one, I'll be even. I'd be like, I've let you test on that. So I want you to be confident in the fact that I'm going to show somebody else. So I want them to walk away looking like you. And then I play with the idea of Burbidge giving them feedback. But sometimes I'll be like, I let them fail. 

But I need to have that fail sometimes to understand what's going on. And he also tries to explain it to somebody else, sometimes going to realize who you really are. Sometimes I'll do it for that and have it like we don't do this, right. But if I have a new show, and so you might realize what I've been trying to tell you. 

I've had quite a few sessions over the years, where we'll be working with somebody and we're doing that and all of a sudden, they're like, you see that light bulb go off. And they'll just feel like this is what they meant. Like you realize you're still doing something right? 

Jeremy Lesniak:

I've been on both sides of that. Experiencing that epiphany while teaching something, you know, I remember probably 6 to 12 months into having my own school teaching the first forum opinion shown on in the curriculum that I grew up with that I was passing on, and doing a movement and just stopping it. It was something to do. I can't remember what it was. Now I remember roughly in the forum where it was stopping and out the entire class we would, what are you doing? There are more moves. And just saying no, hold on. Hold on. I need to finish this thought. Because it's 20 years in the making. Right? That's what they meant. That's what they were trying to get through to me all that time and I just didn't get it.

Matt Nather:

Oh, okay. Yeah, especially in my slightly more recent years of teaching, I feel like I have a lot of moments like as a practitioner, I feel like I'm okay. I say I'm average, but being consistent with my training and having very intense perception makes it seem better than what I think it really is. Like, I never would have tested myself at certain points. But the intensity of the instructor saw that as something more. But as an instructor, I feel like I get a lot of my students to be better than I ever was. Which is, makes me feel great. Like, even my students are, I'll say lesser, but they don't put in the same effort or not. They don't go to my practice, they showed minimal times a week. But they still want to be there when they're there, better than when I wasn't growing. Pretty close to that same.

Jeremy Lesniak:

And I think if we were to unpack it intellectually, every instructor thinks that's their goal. And I've met quite a few sadly, and I'm not gonna say it's the majority or even a large portion, but I've met a non insignificant number of instructors who it is clear, they are not willing to do that. They don't want their students to be better.

Matt Nather:

They're not better than me, they can't grow, so I left my thoughts on it. Like, I run a Leadership program at the school, I try to let that wherever I end up teaching, so they can learn how to teach and assist. And I'll fly out usually within the first class or two of them learning even before a leader is that, in order for martial arts to keep progressing to keep getting better, they have to leave better than about one of them due to replacement. 

And that makes it better than if I hold on to all the knowledge eventually, at some point, that same knowledge calls off to die though. So the art takes a hit more than anything else. Like I hear, I've heard a lot of stories that come through about the masters and instructors and all these high ranking people before even my instructor probably would be demonstrations. And they're thought to get people to their school. 

And I feel like a lot of schools hit a hard point there, where they want to stop. And that was thought and then it just taught me that I want to be the best at school. But why? Why do you have to be about four?

Jeremy Lesniak:

I think as with any motivation, there's a positive, there's a negative side, you should, as an instructor, you should want to be the best person. But you should be using it as positive motivation to yourself. But I think whether you're an instructor or not, you should always want to be the best. And be the best that you can be, not necessarily the best in the room. But being so good in and of yourself that you are the best in the world.

Matt Nather:

I think that's a little on my wording. Like I mean, I don't really, I feel like I'm like where my best would be when I train and I do things. But I want that cost passed by the majority of my students. If I think I'm a five, I want to tell my students.

Jeremy Lesniak:

But it doesn't mean you're gonna sit on your button, let them pass you.

Matt Nather:

Not gonna let them make it easy for them. But that's my end game. I want that. Right?

Jeremy Lesniak:

My original instructors were very open. I started training when I was really young, as a kid in Maine, and my instructors were very honest, like we started a school because we wanted people to train. I mean, like, and if you think about that, and you know, anybody who knows, knows these two knows that they're a husband and wife, they pushed each other. And there were those of us in training that also pushed them as we got better. And so they had to get better, because they wanted to continue to show up to help us get better. So they needed to have more, to help us get better. Even if it wasn't their desire to be better themselves. It was their desire to be better, so they could assist us in getting better. Because if you're a five and your students are seven, it's hard to help them get to eight.

Matt Nather:

That makes sense.

Jeremy Lesniak:

So I think we're on the same page. We're just using slightly different language for yeah, now I want to go back because you've mentioned someone a couple times and this is where the fact that I have a bit of a relationship with you and actually spend a decent amount of time talking to your wife. 

Yeah, that may not sound wonderfully appropriate to those out there who don't know. But Jenny is in charge of our book division and helps run the tour stuff that we do. So I spend a lot of time talking to her. And I know that this woman that you've mentioned, your original instructor, played a significant role in inspiring you. 

And I'm wondering if you might, to the point where she has been able to articulate things to me about someone that you first met 20 plus years ago, so that says something about the power of what this woman represented to you. And I'm wondering if you might say a little bit more,

Matt Nather:

I think there's a lot of little things that played much bigger parts into it than I probably should have. Because I was on my second, maybe my third belt, maybe training for a little under six months, she pulled me up to help start assisting because basic classes, my brother was there. And then the whole teaching thing clearly never went away. She was a very interesting instructor, I don't think I've had anyone else like or, like when I came through, we had a different character every day. 

Some were awesome, I connected with all of them on a certain level. But I hit like a very personal level of for whatever reason, our personalities mesh. And then as I became a slightly better instructor of law, the events last given all of a sudden events last year, I wasn't hiring for it. And then she did a lot of application and Bunkai used things in class with a very realistic, hey, this is what you're doing. 

And as a young kid, I was like, What do you mean, and she used me as a guinea pig a lot, because you know what I take the abuse. But I take the view of the abuse, because I don't understand why what happened, what they are really feeling. And I was like she was a little brutal. 

But I appreciate that. I want to work. So that played a big part. And then she ended up stopping teaching somewhere around when I got my first or second degree. I think I might have been around my first when I started teaching. Or as a paid instructor. I was always teaching but I was teaching at different locations, we were kind of like a part of a smaller franchise, we had like four or five schools at one point. 

So they opened a second school I was teaching there. And she stopped teaching. And then four or five years after that, because of her moment with the Association and different things, they asked her to test for a third degree, sir, to test for her fourth that was considered a masters. So she heard coming around again to do that. 

And I actually got to help train her master. So that happened, all the little small things she made fun of or said to me in class and stupid jokes, it all hit again. And it really sunk in and it just reimplemented all the things that I forgot she had done. I feel like that instantly changed me as an instructor again, I can't even explain how it just sunk in.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I experienced it. I did an interview earlier today. And we spent some time talking about the value. As a teacher, you know what a teacher hopes to get out of teaching. And I think we could apply this to martial arts really anything and, it comes down to something pretty simple, you want to know that it made a difference. 

You want to know that if you invest the time and energy in teaching someone that they got something out of it, it may not be exactly what you hope to get out of it, but you want there to be some values. You show up and you teach and everybody leaves and their wives are not better in at least some measurable way at some point. 

You know, that's depressing. But what we're talking about here is someone who was teaching you so much that you weren't even aware of what was being taught and it took further development for those lessons to even click in. 

It's almost like the word that's coming up for me is like prerequisites in school like she was dropping things that you couldn't even use at the time. But when it came time for you to maybe not need but want them they were there. She set you up for success.

Matt Nather:

Yeah, absolutely. I don't even think she's aware of how much of an impact she's had on me like we've had very small calm recessions in more recent years. And it's more about life. Because at this point, I have my own kids. And that's exciting. She's had, you know, her grandkids that she got to spend time with moved on south to live with that for a little while. 

And just because they had that personal relationship that meant a lot more time together, as I was learning how to teach and assist and do those types of things. We've been there too. And I think it's funny, I think Jenny actually has more conversations with her now on Facebook than I have in the last maybe 10 years.

Jeremy Lesniak:

She is a better conversationalist than you.

Matt Nather:

That's fair. I can't disagree.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yeah. So when you think about that dynamic, that, you know, she set you up for so much success? Are you aware that you might hopefully be having that kind of an impact for people you're teaching? I don't even come into your mind.

Matt Nather:

I feel like I would like certain students, I've actually had a few students who open their own schools at this point. There's a few that have actually surpassed me in rank. I think one of our first conversations was about being right. I won't go too deep into that issue, culture. So again, I have four or five students. 

Now I think, at some point, I mean, most of them have gone to other schools and instructors, but they've actually surpassed me in rank. A few of them have their own schools. And I've had the privilege to walk in and see some of their students and I'm running class. And just the way they say or do certain things, I hope part of that isn't impacted. That sounds familiar, or something that me and then may have said, that has happened at some point.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Forget about the rank stuff for a moment. Let's just talk about the fact that somebody you taught someone for whom you were not even necessarily the exclusive instructor, but a substantial component in their martial arts development, and they go off and they open a school, and you go to visit that school, and you get to observe what they're doing. How does that feel?

Matt Nather:

I don't even know if I could put that to work. Like, it's almost like a kid's Christmas morning. It's really exciting. And it's almost really emotional. Like, you know, I hope I played a part in that wanting this because I expected them that they wanted to really be me, not just me saying I wanted that for them. And then seeing that they're passionate enough about it, that they want to make this trip where their life like this is where they want to immerse themselves in all the effects of the other side.

Jeremy Lesniak:

It seems to me, I have not experienced this, none of the students that I ever had went on to open their own schools. But I imagine it's similar to having a kid. It's the martial arts equivalent of having a kid.

Matt Nather:

It's how it feels. It's, it's really odd, or it's, there's no other real comparison. It's my brother who actually teaches now. I think one of the, when I first started trying to get myself back into training, he had a couple of guys that were a little bit older, they can handle they don't refer training on policy, the old school training, but more old school training, we could take the hits and give them back and it wasn't like, hey, we don't do this here. It wasn't an option. So I was trying to get myself back into shape and stuff. So I started teaching for maybe like two years, I stopped teaching just the way life played out. It didn't happen.

Jeremy Lesniak:

No, you you've referred to it as you've stopped, you stopped training where you also

Matt Nather:

I had been really teaching at that point, either like or a couple, you know, here and there were a lot of instructors that were like, hey, can you come into service come and teach tonight or two?

Jeremy Lesniak:

You took kind of a step away,

Matt Nather:

Unintentionally, just like how moving and different things in nature. But I went to go surf training to get myself back into teaching. Someone wanted me to come in and teach on a regular basis. I don't want to walk in and look completely awful. So I wanted to get back into training and do a little bit of that where I completely hopped in a couple of nights a week and my brother stuff class and basically turned it into how I impacted him as I was referred to and that I wasn't ready for that.

Jeremy Lesniak:

What's the age difference between you and your brother?

Matt Nather:

Three and a half years.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Your older gathering?

Matt Nather:

Yeah But hearing it from his end, I never realized, like, I mean, I unders I thought I had an impact on because he runs his own run the soul what he wanted, but hearing it from his end, how he wants to trade that same impacted students and different things that happened that made him want to be more just on the on the like the karate aspect of thing. 

And he's sharing stories I'm like, is that how once like, it didn't impact me nearly the same way. So that was all through most of them knew who I was before I walked in the door. I never met any of these students. But they knew me from the things he had said in class to them. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yes, what was that? Like? Was that a burden?

Matt Nather:

It made me feel like I was on a pedestal that I was not ready. We're not ready for that, it wasn't really worthy of but it was weird. Because when I would assist and teach our brothers classes, it was still active. Learning how to do all these things. Are they you know, the instructors, like I said, we were part of a small franchise, so they brought me back to that school. So it was as he was really learning how to fall into teaching and assisting. 

And it was my first time really having a study instructor that I was teaching how to teach not just on pads. I'm teaching how to walk the line for my class, you're actually doing this so you could step in, take my spot on the floor if I have to do it. 

So there was a weird dynamic in itself, we'd go home and cry, it wasn't usually the topic, but time and time it would come up. So it was a weird component to hear that the walking door to class shifted gears and went to that. So they understood who I was and they weren't aware of who I was, like, I heard the story. But now there's a fix. And now this is what that person did for me. I want to do that for you.

Jeremy Lesniak:

How old were you when you started helping him?

Matt Nather:

That seems out of place when I say helping teach?

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yeah, yeah, that's the kind of bit that you gave there.

Matt Nather:

Maybe the team that was somewhere in that zone when I got my black belt? So in that area, okay. Maybe slightly after that, but not by much.

Jeremy Lesniak:

So that's a lot longer ago than I would have expected based on the way.

Matt Nather:

Yeah. If people wanted to be there more we threw them in there to learn how to teach and do things. And I think it was at the same cost as it would have been that 12/14 zone to be moved up from the kids plus the adult class. So we can help teach that. And it wasn't like, hey, you're both eight. But it's more of an instructor role instead of just learning, you know, helping each other out in class. 

And let them have a little bit more of an understanding of what's going on and what we're doing. Although I can definitely say I've had kids teach the adult class, like a handle, parents will lobby. And by the way, we have our leadership program. That actually might be my favorite sales or two, I was running a school. In the city, I was a new instructor. I just stepped in maybe three months prior to taking over that location. 

Same thing, I implemented that leadership class, I was working with a couple of these kids that were mostly advanced members, because the lower half wasn't quite prepared for that program. There was a lot else and a change and so more for success. Instead of hey, come to class, beat each other up and go on. But I had a parent come in flipping out because because we had recently taken over the school for the franchise, well contracts for changing prices were changing. And unfortunately, it all fell on me so I was a bad guy. And they got really upset and they came in during the middle class kids classes. 

So parents came in, they were yelling, screaming, they got all the time brought up and they would go all the time behind the floor. So they'd walk around the floor, they pulled me into the office, and I had this little girl. I think she was a red belt. You were maybe eight years old, who was in that leadership class, and we had a room full of adults. I think our floor was packed when the bigger classes I've been there and there are other than I sat down on a chair and I let them yell and scream and get mad for a little bit. 

And I kind of looked behind them and just kind of pointed and they'll realize this little girl who had minimal experience was realistically there for three months at that point. was confident enough to step in, not just to run a class or start a class where she was teaching adults, and not one adult questioned it because just like, life is essential. But her confidence, she just went with it. And she had a pretty good idea of what she should be doing. So she went like that in the class lens. And everybody's attitude completely stopped and changed. And the little girl cheats the majority of that class, and kind of just took over for a match at the end. And I mean, to me, that was amazing, athletic. You can't say anything more that spoke for itself.

Jeremy Lesniak:

So what was the end result? What did the parents do?

Matt Nather:

It wasn't the one parent who decided that they were gonna stick around, but they didn't want to do a whole big term thing. They want to see what it looks like six months, I wasn't sure. You know, whatever makes you happy. Although work, but coming and actually watching class, don't just sit with our drop them off. Like see the program. See why they brought me here. It wasn't like they did it on a whim. Because hey, the other guy was leaving them, they wanted to switch him out. Because he needed experience. They wanted more eyes on him. They brought me there to take. They wanted to know what I was capable of. Even if I wasn't sure, like our boss knew more of what I was capable of. And I was at that point. In my head, I was so young I was drawing points on my bed like 17. But I was confident in what I would say and what I would do even if I knew what was wrong. But they know if I knew I was wrong, I would go back to the next slide. So

Jeremy Lesniak:

Where was that? Where was that coming from? Because we've got this recurring theme here of you performing beyond your own perception.

Matt Nather:

for myself, but I have a realistic expectation of what I think's going to happen. And I've like quite often I surprise myself and what really ends up happening. And I'll be like, I don't want to set myself up for failure. So it's not quite that I'm okay with failing. But I don't want to walk out frustrated because I couldn't meet my own expectations. I feel like I set a bar lower than what it should be. Rather they hit it and I'm like, Alright, I can't set it up. I can't do that. I want you to walk home and still be happy with my night with how everything went. Instead of always just crushing it. I worked with one director for a couple years so every night I felt like classes would end. 

We'd sit in the lobby for an hour and a half just talking about classes. And he bummed me out every time. What do you mean? Like, oh, this student couldn't get this and it wasn't like he wanted to figure out how to get better at it was all right, welling on the negative. Yeah, well on everything that didn't quite go right. Even just a small success. We had a special need to do all of a sudden. He was kickboard that we were doing a lot of one on ones, if you can handle the program. And we got him there, and he joined class. 

And even the kids in class that are next to him every time it would switch would help him without disrupting bucks. Like they would make sure he can help follow along. And seeing that was amazing. But if someone else had a bad night, he couldn't accept how great that just was. There was this kid in a desert just walking in and you have a problem connecting with and you'd see that the fitness space in the whole plaza reflects on that defeat. Anyway, I talked about that type of stuff every night. And at this point, man, we're pretty close friends. But when we taught together, it was so rough because classes ended. Alright, let's talk about how I did back

Jeremy Lesniak:

To another example of trying a new learning from the negative from what you didn't want to do and be the counter examples. Now I know that you met your wife. Yeah, for training. And she told me some stories. Make it surprising. She is now your wife.

Matt Nather:

Yeah, no, personality wise, I can't believe when we first met and started talking you said it earlier I have very strong personalities. And she was so nice and so sweet. She still is most of the time rubbed off on each other. It seems nice. I made her a little more aggressive and assertive. Like she was so nice. It almost grossed me out .

Jeremy Lesniak:

She's told me some stories about early training and things that occurred and I'm trying to lead you. There's one story I'm hoping you will tell. And I'm trying to lead you to it without giving away the punchline

Matt Nather:

That me breaking her ribs or…

Jeremy Lesniak:

So tell us that story.

Matt Nather:

So on Saturday, our Saturday classes were a little bit less brutal and just a lot more hard training. Refresh it and make you work it 100% and slow it down to learn class? And where are questions that we have an a&p. So you do your forms in a class and a lot more sparring tends to be at the time, we had quite a few teens and adults in the class. So one of the funner things I do if we didn't do it all the time, but I do you like to online or try to do some group esque sparring. And because the students always don't just do what you do, I would jump in and I do X amount of students. 

So I do have smaller kids first, and then I pull the bigger students, you get to see how tall my wife really is. But during the rest of class, she was considered one of the big students. So it was her and a couple bigger guys, I think it was for them total might have been five, I think it was four. But on the grand scale, she was much taller than the rest of them. So I was like I hit a little bit harder, because I'm not getting caught over by my students. So we sparred and she jumped between two of the bigger students and I caught her just right that I cracked ribs. And at the time, we had just started talking. I don't know if you have to have our first date yet might have been close to that area of things. So she likes to say that I've kind of gone away to her heart. I felt bad after class was over.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I think we're just putting this out in audio. So I need everyone to know that he may feel bad, but he's smiling ear to ear as he's telling this entire story. Please continue.

Matt Nather:

I am class, I will have very little sympathy, I will take you together and make you finish last. But as soon as class is over, I'll see if you're actually okay. Not bad. And that was kind of one of those moments. Sorry, Tom. We talked about things like, How are you feelin? It was fun. See, clearly doesn't mind that she shares the story more than I do.

Jeremy Lesniak:

She seems to enjoy telling. And I think you know, it's a fun story for me to hear. Because we've been pretty direct in the context of the show that the idea of instructors and students dating is incredibly risky. And I know you acknowledge that, and most people do acknowledge that. But I think what I love about this story is that it's proof that no matter what was going to happen, YouTube, we're going to end up together. Yeah, if you can survive that. If the notion of you're not even quite beginning a relationship can survive. Some of you demand physical injury before it gets off the ground, and you still continue. I mean that says everything I need to hear.

Matt Nather:

I think as we became more serious and dating when we moved in together, I think for me as an instructor put a lot more testing on our relationship than me breaking a record.

Jeremy Lesniak:

And I think Can you can you speak to that a little bit because I think that this is not a black and white discussion, and we have taken some flack for speaking out against it, not because it's never right, but because it is usually wrong.

Matt Nather:

I mean, I've taught at schools where it's been lately, Hey, you can't do this word. I have to fire you. Alright, I get it. I understand it. I've talked with other instructors who have done it. Honestly, for me. In my teen years I dated a student, but I was teaching at one of our other locations. So the boss kind of was like.

Jeremy Lesniak:

As the different dynamic.

Matt Nather:

As long as it doesn't affect the school, they weren't making a big deal of it and kind of how I feel now, you're adults, make your own choices to understand. If things don't work, they can't come to you. Your adults figured it out. My wife and I started talking. Because the instructor at the time, his life helped run the office. So me and her became friends that way, and she trained at the same time at home, anywhere about the same rent. So they were currently on a different level. So those who, apparently we're talking about me.

Jeremy Lesniak:

So there is a conspiracy going even,

Matt Nather:

I have a lot of rules that I was never one that was really big on dating in general, not just at the school wasn't me, I like to have rules. And honestly, it's any growth hormone.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Which is probably why you liked her. Because, we heard from, like, the beginning of this conversation, how much you dislike it.

Matt Nather:

I don't want you to know where I live. Until I know that the relationship will work. I don't want you to work if you know we're in an argument, our relationship, like that's not the place for it. But I've seen a lot. 

So like, I wasn't going to do it. But somebody's life was like, I'm tired of hearing her talk about you. I gave her your number. Whatever you decide to do at that point, it's up to you. I don't hear it anymore. 

So at some point, she messaged me, and I think we talked and just texted back and forth for a good two months before we even dated or officially dated or had her birthday, however you want to word that to make sure that we were actually going to connect to a certain point. Like giving the number to Jenny really bothered me, but at the same point, I guess I get it. I can't get too upset now. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

I hope not. You're married. You have a child. It kind of worked out.

Matt Nather:

Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't be happier with that. But at the time, I was like, why? You know, I have goals. But now, everything clearly worked out the way it should have. Actually, me and Jenny hadn't met for maybe 10 years or so before that without knowing it. Yeah, so I was running. I just took over the second location and trained in big like certain franchises. And so they brought me in for like six weeks on Saturday, really paying when I see how you're gonna do on your own. Three weeks, and I took over this maybe six months to a year ended, one of the students had a birthday party at the school. Our oldest son attended that birthday party. So we met without realizing we had met.

Jeremy Lesniak:

But if I'm doing correct math.

Matt Nather:

I would have gotten really young.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Looking for the right way to say this. Because you know, I'm not putting numbers on it publicly. But you know, I know it's there. You are not exactly the same age. It's not inappropriate at this point. Even back then.

Matt Nather:

That was something else when we started dating. Danny didn't realize who I was until we had been dating. Like, I think we were, we'll say six months and talk about dating whatever. Because then my birthday approached and she's like, “Oh, okay”. Yeah, she thought I was a bit older. Not that I'm complaining. That's great. Yeah. I was all aware walking into it.

Jeremy Lesniak:

So what's next? What's next for you? And teaching and training? Let's pretend we do a five year reunion on this.

Matt Nather:

So training wise, I actually just tested and got a promoted report.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Congratulations.

Matt Nather:

Thank you. At this point, I like ranking very little meat and falling into training which is very different from me and you talking before but I have been a third grader for over a decade. I will say it's definitely a bit beyond that but for at least a decade. And ranking irrelevant so I could walk through a room full of masters or senior masters high ranking black belts and not wanting to look at my rank or rank never played a factor, even with the ones that were of a higher rank than you usually were. 

Great, no, no one ever question that was never ever played that. Because I still had the experience, I had the knowledge to back up whatever I said. And then, last fall, so it might have been here, I guess we're getting pretty close to a year that I've been at this school. I say in theory, I'll still be here. Our personalities are a little strong, and not everybody likes that.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Safe to say you would likely be teaching somewhere.

Matt Nather:

Yeah, I'll definitely be teaching myself that that'll ever go away. Even if it's not my career, there'll be some type of teaching and roles. I've been here for about a year. Majority of what I've been here, they had me take over the office to help fix that side of things. We have another secondary instructor, but he had recently left. So when I walked in here, I had a lot of problems, but I don't think we're looking at how things were done. So since the other instructor left, I've had a lot of one-on-one to be able to implement what I'd like to see at the school. And even if it's not Extreme Networks definitely change the made for the better, in my opinion for the better. Normally, when I step in and take over the soul, there's a big loss in students. Because I have a higher expectation of pushing them now isn't really an option. There's no camp in karate. But I haven't had any last year here at the school. Since I've started, that will be considerably my knowledge. If it was, it was minimal. It wasn't like a 30. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Like, in any professional setting. When leadership changes. There are people who will leave you know, even if it's not because of the leadership change, they see an opportunity, it stirs the pot enough that they're like, Oh, I was going to go over here, do this or quit or whatever. Anyway, they just need a reason.

Matt Nather:

On the foreign takeover completely, I see 30% to 50% food baseball's. I know, but it happens. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

But do the numbers come back,

Matt Nather:

usually within a six month period, depending on the size of school. Yeah. So I mean, it's not the end of the world, it's just a rough few months. But having a smaller base, when I take over makes it easier to have. I want it by the time it picks back up. So I've said it a lot over the years, I'd rather have a school with like 10 or 15 students that I know are going to put in the effort and the time to become as great as they could be, instead of having 100 students that make me want to go home and bang my head on the wall. Yeah. Sense go with it. And a lot of schools are smaller, the score isn't huge, but has a decent sized base. For decent attendance are our Mi student part, it's not very best for the student base. And since I've started, there's been a few that have come back and make comments on the changes I'm making. And they're all for it. So it's been a pretty positive thing here, I guess, especially lately. So I'm happy I don't dread it when they come in. It's nice. It's getting where I want us to actually get to see some of them.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I'm excited. I'm excited. Yeah. You know, listeners, I'll be down working with these guys at the end of the month, actually, this, this is going to air after. By the time this airs, we'll have already done it. So we can't, we can't even preempt it. So but I'm looking forward to finally connecting with

Matt Nather:

the guys in person. I think we're gonna have a long version. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

So, it'll be good. Yeah, it'll be good. Well, we'll have fun. If not, you know, like you just said I don't care about numbers. I care about quality. Yeah, quality of character, quality of efforts.

Matt Nather:

With the instructor who was here before me, we did have some time together. And he was all for I'm not big on hey, we're doing push ups for X amount of this. I'll do my best. That way I can focus on Quality over quantity. And that concept seemed very foreign to me. And it threw me off at first like, No, I want them to be more and more and more. But if you do 1000 beds, I'm going to give you the same benefit as we started doing more of that is big on reps like, Hey, I don't hold on to five, left five, right all the time. Does that have to do a certain timeframe? Pass it back for legs?

Jeremy Lesniak:

I think it is. It is rare. In life that volume is a better use of a better yardstick than quality or time. Yeah, in a lot of the training protocols that I develop, it's based on time, not number of repetitions for the very reasons that you mentioned. You're not huge on public, facing things, social media, etc. But if somebody did want to get a hold of you, is there a way?

Matt Nather:

I have no problem if they want to call me. Or they could always reach out there, Jeremy. Everyone always passes stuff along. But I forget even what it was, I think at one point, my Facebook years ago. And I just couldn't get the account back. And they were all sipping a lot happier about social media.

Jeremy Lesniak:

They're getting more and more people.

Matt Nather:

What would you say? I tried certain things again, when I started teaching it to connect with parents. And as soon as I started doing that, I felt like I could do it. And I got rid of it. I don't even think it lasted two months. I don't blame you don't want to reach me, they can email me I guess. [01:06:56-01:06:59]. Anything teaching, training, whatever. I've had a few people actually connected through Facebook. 

I think some of them ended up whether they're in other groups or on Facebook, or whether it's actually from some of the whistlekick pages that we ended up just shooting messages back and forth. And I think both of them are just like no, and suckers. I don't know what to say in the comments. Sometimes they do. We absolutely love them. But yeah,

Jeremy Lesniak:

You know, there's tremendous value in having people around you that you know, will always give you an honest opinion. And you are one of those people in my world. And I appreciate that. I know, usually I'm getting to you through Jenny. But if I want to know what you think on something, or if I want honest opinions, I make sure that whatever it is we're working on makes it to her.

Matt Nather:

Yes, she asked a lot of questions and I'll get her opinion versus argue the other side. Just to hear all sides of it. Not my gift initially, hey, this is it.

Jeremy Lesniak:

The verbal equivalent of sparring. 

Matt Nather:

Exactly. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

If you can't, if you can't step in and spar using you know, some of your worst techniques or with some kind of self limitation. You're not fully developing. And exactly any good debate coach will say the same thing if you can't argue or do both sides of the issue. 

Matt Nather:

Do you really understand? That's something I've been having a little bit of fun with here with some of our more advanced guys, because everything's been very black and white and what they do. So I've started doing some applications with them. And now what do you think? I just foresee the wheels turning that you're allowed to be wrong? That's really wrong as if it doesn't work. 

So then they'll probably do how they accept that makes sense, you know, so then what else? I'll do that with almost every conversation. I do that with bosses. And while the jobs I have some appreciate it, some of them really, really don't. I do it with the kids a little bit. I don't think I ever really appreciate it as much because a lot of people get very hard on that side of things. And they do the other side. They just want to get aggressive and they fight. But I did tree work for a couple years and was one of the guys on my crew. 

He was very big into reading on politics. But he wasn't super opinionated on it. He wouldn't stay consistent. He was open to hearing everything you read advice, whether it's one side or the other. Very hard to find something That's not, but that would be our lunch break every day we'd go in and sit in the truck, we'd have lunch together. And he'd just start with something, whatever. He'd read that the night before that morning, and we went back and forth. And sometimes it would get slightly heated, and we never started the conversation, the other person will really know both sides as much as ever. You're cool again, you know, it all ended, you gotta have that real conversation. I feel like that's kind of died off a lot, too.

Jeremy Lesniak:

And that's how martial arts training should be. Right? If you and I step in and we sparred, we challenge each other, we push, we make each other better, maybe we take a couple shots, you know, hopefully, you're not breaking my ribs. But you know, apparently, if you do, you've got ways to make it better. 

So, I think, we make all these jokes, within the martial arts, about friendship coming from punching each other in the face. But the further things divide in society, the more I look to that example of, you know, we can challenge and push each other and “fight”, and get bruised, and maybe even a little bloody at times, and at the end, thank each other, for that opportunity.

Matt Nather:

Absolutely get better. And that's, you need that to get better. It really is nice for the family, it's not going to get to their family, it's not going to get there. But if you need it outside of class, outside of training, it is really nice, because it's not gonna work. But I think what you're saying is a little bloody, I think I've made more friends in 40 minutes. Because we beat the crap out of each other, or one of those got disqualified for excessive contact, it was usually mean. Like, we weren't mad at each other, but like, no rules. 

But like, there were some of the better friendships I made for a long time. I would take a lot of weekends off to go to court, I can hit 40 to 50 in one year, just trying to get rotation on my body would still allow it. And I see people, you know, cause authority over their name or ways that tell that story, and they pull someone else into that group. 

So that group would just keep growing. They show up. Alright, so what are you doing this year? What form and what weapon? You know, there's something new and exciting that we'd see, depending on how things went? Well, we'd make jokes about whether we saw your uniform last time or awesome. How's your face? Sorry, again, but congrats.

Jeremy Lesniak:

That was your face. Sorry.

Matt Nather:

Yeah. There was a guy. We jumped heavyweight a lot like the biggest guy, but I ended up with a lot of students. As I used to, I don't do heavyweight the next day, lightweight. We weren't in the same division. But we're the guy who's bigger than me. You know, he brought me when he hit me. I don't care, it's part of training. It's fun. 

But I kicked them and caught him and he put them over the chairs for the next spring. And he thought that was awesome. But the judge left and he's fine. I'm fine isn't gonna, like dies except the other range. That's good. Keep going. Every year after that. So there were people who didn't realize that was me at other coordinates, and then he would tell that story again. And they're like, oh, that's this, isn't it? Because we just got shared.

Jeremy Lesniak:

All right, let's wrap it up here. You know, you've told some good stories, and how do you want to close up but how do you want to fade out?

Matt Nather:

Or fade out? So let's say I love you?

Jeremy Lesniak:

That would be the first in 700 episodes. No, I don't think anybody is ever, ever close to that.

Matt Nather:

I think we can close that. I like my personality. I have a last run of people. But like you said earlier you're one of the few I like bouncing ideas off of. I like hearing your thoughts even though I know we're not always going to agree.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I'm glad you don't always say…

Matt Nather:

Because it's enlightening that you can do the same thing to have a conversation. No, we're not going to be great, and then we can still be friends. I know we'd be going out on your career. Maybe we'll be lucky enough to stand together to beat the crap out of each other when a female is not gonna hold a grudge over it. But I enjoy that because there aren't people like that. That's a lot of people's opinions. I respect them all the time. But you're one of those. I'm glad Jeremy, I found your podcast all those years ago.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Thanks for being such a supporter and for coming on and to learn more about you, it was awesome.

Matt Nather:

Yeah, Jeremy, the reason I heard about you. I think she was a little mad because I think our first conversation was before you and her accent had a conversation. She's like, I listened to all the shows. And you talked to him before him?

Jeremy Lesniak:

No, I think she made up for last time.

Matt Nather:

Yeah, this is that. We talked a lot.

Jeremy Lesniak:

All right. Well, thanks for coming on.

Matt Nather:

No problem. I love you.

Jeremy Lesniak:

You know, I'm always curious how much you as the audience can tell when I'm talking to a friend versus someone that I just met. One of my goals as an interviewer is to make sure that you feel the friendly elements when I'm talking to a stranger, but also the curious elements when I'm talking to a friend. Because when I get the opportunity to talk to someone that I know that I like, I still want to learn more about them. I still take my role seriously. I want to hear about their journey. And as I get to hear these journeys of people like Matt, who I know a little bit, it allows me to fill in some gaps in who they are. 

I genuinely believe that the more we understand about the people around us, martial artists or not, the better our interactions are, when we know what people have been through when we get the chance to at least a bit, figuratively even walk in their shoes. I think there's a lot of value there. Matt had a great time. In a sense, this was long overdue, but at the same time, no, it happened when it should. Because now I get to see you in my recording on this eleven… No, nine days. I will see you in nine days. And looking forward to that immensely. 

Hey, listeners. Thanks for sticking around. Thanks for listening to this show. And thank you for your support of whistlekick, whether that be financial or time or energy, it means a great deal. Remember, we have training programs at whistlekick.com You can save 15% on those or anything else with the code PODCAST. I would love to come to your school and teach a seminar. You can email me about that.

Or if you have feedback or topic suggestions, guest suggestions for the show, Jeremy@whistlekick.com or social media It's @whistlekick. Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, Twitch. Those are where we are. We're on TikTok, but we're not doing anything with it right now. That may change as you're listening to this. Who knows? Check us out. I'm rambling so it's time to go. Until next time, train hard, smile and have a great day.