Episode 724 - Tashi Mark Warner
Tashi Mark Warner is a martial arts practitioner, US Army veteran, and instructor at the Mark Warner's Professional Martial Arts Academy in Massachusetts.
There are no bad arts, but you need really good teachers in the arts…
Tashi Mark Warner - Episode 724
“I want to be Bruce Lee”. Explicitly said by Tashi Mark Warner when he was asked how did he start martial arts. Exposed to the movies by Bruce Lee and David Carradine, Tashi Mark Warner developed an affinity with Martial Arts. Tashi Warner trained predominantly in Kung Fu and Karate throughout his storied career. Eventually, he will establish Mark Warner's Professional Martial Arts Academy in Massachusetts.
In this episode, Tashi Mark Warner talks about his martial arts journey, his service in the US Army, and his love for knowledge and learning new things.
Show Notes
For more information, check out Tashi Mark Warner’s Facebook Page or website
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hey there, you're listening to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio episode 724 with my guest today, Tashi Mark Warner. I'm Jeremy Lesniak, host for the show, founder here at whistlekick, where everything we do is in support of the traditional martial arts. If you want to know about everything we've got going on, check out whistlekick.com. That's where we'll find everything we're doing. It's also the place to find our store, make sure you use the code PODCAST15 to save 15% on our podcast, this show gets its own website, whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. We bring the show twice a week. And the goal of the show and really whistlekick overall, is to connect, educate and entertain traditional martial arts throughout the world.
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I've had the pleasure of getting to know Tashi Warner, for really it's been about a year. And I'm glad we finally got to do this. Because this man has wonderful stories and brings a passion to the martial arts that I find infectious. He loves what he does. He is a consummate beginner in the best possible way. And I think you're gonna find not only those things, but plenty of other things come through in our conversation here. Good morning. How are you?
Mark Warner:
Very good. How are you today? I'm great. We are ready to go.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I guess we're ready to go. Yeah, we can just, I mean, you know what we do? We can just roll. Just start doing it.
Mark Warner:
Sure. Let's dive right into it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Why did you start training?
Mark Warner:
I wanted to be Bruce Lee, or maybe David Carradine at the time. So those are kind of popular girls. I was brought up in a time when we had heroes, manly men, I'm gonna say manly men, that type of John Wayne next, Audie Murphy, etc, etc, etc. So I saw Bruce Lee and, and David Carradine, and their likes and like, oh, wow, this is awesome. I gotta do this. I was a teenager at the time. So that's what got me started. That's what got me going.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now why I have a theory. But instead of voicing, I'll just ask you, why Bruce Lee, David Carradine, and not John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, and, you know, men that I think would likely be considered more conventional male role models, especially at that time.
Mark Warner:
Probably because at the time, I was kind of an unconventional kid. I was in the band, a band geek, everybody who's in a band knows what I'm talking about. And I saw this as something really cool. Actually, I thought it was really cool. I'm not gonna say different things to strangers. It's just really cool. And I got going and never stopped.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Were you doing any other movement? Things? Were you playing sports?
Mark Warner:
Oh, no, I was one of the other guys. And it's strange, because I see a lot of my students who do music, art, and go to that area, and then they come in, and this is their movement. So it's truly something I can relate to. Because it is called martial arts. And I see this movement as a true art. When you come into school, you start doing it all of a sudden your body starts to flow. Now, regardless of who you are, your body will flow. I'll go into this real quick. I had scoliosis. I live with scoliosis. And so I wasn't one to jump up in the sky, slip around, do all this stuff. But at the same time, my body started to move and I get this feeling that I can do this. I can do this. Anybody can do this. And that's the beautiful thing about martial arts. And you're talking about sports. And if you're not a number one in your game, well, we might not want you in this sport. We wanted him there who can move really well.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right? Okay, so you've laid out a stack of things that I think to the casual observer might suggest that your entry and involvement in martial arts is kind of a statistical anomaly. You said you started in ‘74. Right? So you started at a time when you're an older kid, but you're still a kid, and most schools weren't teaching kids back then. And there's a physical component, kind of pulling you back and in such a way that I would imagine there were at least some schools back then that would say, we can't help you. You know, we've heard of accounts like that on the show. And personality wise, it doesn't sound like we would consider teenage marks to be the most likely person to get involved in a physical pursuit.
Mark Warner:
Well, from my perspective, or that perspective, I I know you do a lot of traditional Taekwondo and you've done treasure karte. I went to a temple school, it was actually at the time of United studios. So to sense it was run by Rob Bob [00:06:42-00:06-44], who later broke off, started his own lineage later on, and left his own school later on. But that's where I started. And they tended to take more students in from all aspects they had at the time. I think, as a teen I went into the adult classes. And their program seemed to adapt to what I could do in the very beginning.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Did you know that going in with a kid did you research schools and, this is one that will accept me or was it just luck?
Mark Warner:
Or no, I just found it. Okay, it's just like okay, well, oh, that's a school let's go to I was gone. I was there that quick.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What did your parents think? Well, for those of you listening, he just smirked there. There's a story here. There's something here.
Mark Warner:
Well, now we start to go back through time. Because both my parents had lived through the Depression and that gave them an impact on the brain. My father was a World War Two veteran. So now you get to see how old I am a little bit. And he went through what was actually the third day in a day, he was a combat engineer. And actually his unit was released by the world first at best on so that's some history for you kids go and google it. See what I'm talking about? Oh, first a boost on his unit was relieved by them. Then they pull out the one a fresh one. And that's a history lesson. That's why history is a beautiful thing.
So check it out kids. And in their minds. I should have grown up. I should have gone to work in a factory to get a good living. I should have been another baby boomer like they were alive as one of their children. So I wasn't a baby boomer. And I should have built my life that way. This was just kind of a hobby for me. And they thought it was a hobby for me. And I remember that. The first my first Blackboard graduation way graduation that my mother ever went to was for my sis to complete my sis degree. And she finally was in the audience. And I ran out, gave her a hug. And we get a picture somewhere floating around. So that's another memory that sticks with you.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, why not any of the earlier ranks? I mean, hobby or not? Were they not supportive?
Mark Warner:
Ah, so let me give the other side of the coin. Because like I said, I was in high school, right? Every single concert, every single thing that I did in high school mom was in the audience watching. So there we have the two sides of the coin. One was, oh, yeah, this is high school district music. This is good. And the other is all that martial arts stuff over there.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There was a validity or a credibility to her to what you need within the context of school, outside of school. They didn't stop you, but it doesn't sound like they were conventionally supportive.
Mark Warner:
You turn on the radio, you can listen to music all day long. You have to go find the podcast, alright.
Jeremy Lesniak:
They didn't understand it.
Mark Warner:
No, like I said the way that they were brought up. I mean, if you think about what we know, of the around 1977, or the depression, the stuff that was quite the time, my grandmother or going way back now, my grandmother would talk about this was in Massachusetts, so if you know where that is, she talked about having to go through a field that had a bullet, and the bullet will chase her through the field. So we will go on our way back then. But these are some of the thoughts that ran through their heads. My father was from [00:10:36-00:10:38]. It was a really cool thing that happened.
I'm gonna tell you this, this, we're way off track. But that's okay. Really cool thing I went up, visiting a few years ago, happened to go to an art museum up in Portland, Maine. And in this art museum, for some reason, they had the door from 1947, for early 40s, from Waterboro, Maine just the door of the post office. I'm sitting there looking at God, oh my God, my father would have stood in front of the door. So that was just wild stuff like that. That's madness. So myself, I'm truly a believer in karma. So everything's a scam. And I don't put out too, right. But that's it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's okay. Now, I know you had a track after high school where, you know, maybe there was a little bit of off, I'm going to speculate, trying to make your parents happy with your choices.
Mark Warner:
Well, I would go the other way. And it wasn't trying to make them unhappy. It was trying to find my way. And I'm always telling the kids at my school, find your passion now. And one of the biggest reasons I share that is because after school, I worked for a while studying martial arts, as, as always, but I was heading down the path that they wanted me to go. And I'm like, no. So I went off and I joined the military. I joined the Army. Everyone away for a while, that was intriguing. Now, like I said, I had scoliosis, so that wasn't a that was not the wisest choice I could make.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Did you have to lie about that? To get in? Well, I would have assumed that would have been a disqualification.
Mark Warner:
Yeah, but you're 20 years younger than me, right? So we have to go back to history again. So when I joined the military, it was right after the Vietnam War. I didn't go into it anymore after the early 80s. It was like 23 as an old guy could go in. I remember I didn't, here's another story. So I thought stories are full of something. I don't know what. So I'm in there. And first, I have a flat seat. I have flat feet. I have scoliosis. They didn't say anything. They said to walk like a rock exactly.
So then this is the one that got me to the eye exam, where they checked colors. And they had all the dots on the page. The numbers are there, and like I had the guy had the cards. Every time he took the car to tell me the number. He'd whisper the number. Whisper, whisper the number. I'm like, Okay, I guess I did this one. So at the time, they kind of think you're colorblind to know I'm not colorblind. But he was quicker than I could ever be. Oh, all right. I guess I got this one. So I had a fault. So they took me and I was off on that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Post Vietnam there was tremendous concern. Cold War. Makes sense.
Mark Warner:
Not so much that is that. A lot of people who went to Vietnam were not considered heroes back in those times. What am I, one of my buddies in service from home on leave? And he went to a movie where he was in a dress uniform. And people were making noises of [00:14:34-00:14:36]. I know that all that's changed now. And they respect everybody who's done their military service. Thank God because they're the ones out there putting it. I mean, you talk about beating your body up. Yeah, that's what we did. We are buddies.
Jeremy Lesniak:
One of the best ways I've heard it expressed as you can. You can support soldiers and still not support the war.
Mark Warner:
Yes, exactly. That's the best way to put it right there. Because the funny thing about soldiers and wars, what are we doing there? Why aren't I just telling you once you should take the tool of either the two leaders or the two countries, give them whatever they want to use and just put them in the ranking. You saw that right here.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's interesting you bring that up the timing of this, I'm pretty sure the episode Andrew and I recorded. I mean, they're gonna get it right or wrong, we did an episode talking about how fighting really isn't in the way that we think about it in the modern landscape isn't quite natural. And I brought up the example that in a lot of historical cultures, there were battles between champions instead of sending everybody to war, and losing all these lives, like, you pick your best person and you pick your best one thing is always male, at least in the cultures that I'm aware of. You pick your best guy and your best guy, and you guys go fight, and it's a proxy battle. And then whoever wins, that side wins, whatever they're trying to win.
Mark Warner:
That's if you're gonna fight that would be the best way to do it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What were you doing between 18 and 23?
Mark Warner:
I was working and I was training. Slow, slow, slow back then it was slower turning back then. Once in a while I go off course. We're 18-23 year olds, but then I always get back on course, they're not in the service. Was still at the same school. Got up to my brown belt before one of the services. Didn't get all the way to black before I got one of the services.
Jeremy Lesniak:
How long did you train? Okay, you took breaks? That makes sense.
Mark Warner:
I went to 23. But when you're not as intelligent as you should be, and you take too many breaks, and will often well, another bit of history. When I was 18, the drinking age was 18. My parents didn't train me on how to drink properly. So I kind of had to figure that out on my own. So that was one of those wrecks right there. So another part of me says this country is going to sell alcohol. And parents should be training their children how to drink. But then you have the other side of the coin, which says no, it's not done that way. That's another story for another day.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So you go in, they pretty much rubber stamp you. Would you do it? Would you do this?
Mark Warner:
I was well, this is where John Wayne comes into play. I was in the infantry. I was ready for the States Infantry. I was hardcore. That was interesting. I was in the answer. I spent two tours in Korea. I went over there for a couple of years. That's another story for a whole another podcast. And I was at Fort Polk, Louisiana. Well, I was at Fort Polk, Louisiana. I never went to Mardi Gras. I never went down there. I should have gone down there for three days but never went to Mardi Gras. But that's pretty good.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I guess, you know, we've heard time and again, folks who dabble in martial arts or start martial arts, you go into the service. And it seems like one of two things happen. Either martial arts falls off for them. Or they end up meeting someone training with someone, they're stationed somewhere where there's nothing to do when they start training, etc. And they become more immersed in martial arts and their martial arts training. But I'm going to go ahead,
Mark Warner:
I tended to dabble a little bit more when Kempo was down at Fort Polk and just a little bit of Taekwondo in Korea. Again, I was going through a time of personal development, I'll put it that way. Because it's, that's a nice way to put it. So I was the only devil, while I was in the church where I got out, that's when I got into it. That's when I really got into it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's something happen, or did you find that you were missing it? Like, what? You're expressing what it sounds like? Okay, I'm out. I'm ready. Martial arts is a thing. This is something I want to put some effort into. Is that something you're saying in hindsight, or was that something that you were aware of feeling at the time?
Mark Warner:
That's something. I'm saying in high school, okay. I got out of service. And I actually went to a Chinese decorator, the Chinese. She remembered these details as a Chinese restaurant. I will happen to be there with a buddy of mine. We were having a few cold ones. And I looked up and I saw him doing his helicopter kick. Jean-Claude Van Damme. Bloodsport? That's right. Yep, that's it right there. And also everything just flowed through me.
I'm like, this is what I've been trading for. And that is what I had been training for. I did not know it. Like I said, I believe in karma. I can know what's going on. But at that point, I stuck it out. And what I did off my school and 98 It's like, I'm not supposed to be doing this. My whole life has gotten me to this point. And the next point.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When did you leave the service? At six, okay. So, what happened in those 12 years?
Mark Warner:
And those 12 years, I was training, and was actually around ‘90 to ‘94. I started teaching for a blob associate at an old school at the time, so I started teaching it at one high school. And then I decided to talk him out of school.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Which was great six years later. What was teaching something that you were interested in and wanted to do? Or was it something that maybe he said, “Hey, Mark, I need you to teach this class over here”. And you said, “Okay”.
Mark Warner:
That was usually what I said. Okay. But after that, I just started to steamroll.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Like, well, you enjoyed it?
Mark Warner:
Yes. I enjoyed it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What was it about teaching that you enjoy?
Mark Warner:
What was it about teaching? I was doing something I love to do. I was doing martial arts. And I was almost making the other living at it. So that was a good thing. I'm gonna go. This is pretty good. I can do this. And I was doing tournaments. I love to do tournaments at the time. So that was more personal growth for me, during tournaments, teaching classes. Watching a lot more martial arts movies I was having this is the time of my life.
Jeremy Lesniak:
This is great. What I'm hearing correct me if I'm wrong, what I'm hearing is this kind of thread of you looking around trying things experiencing things. Everything's okay. But not quite finding, let's say a home. But throughout, maybe realizing, again, in hindsight, because we rarely realize these things at the time, that there's this common thread of martial arts that seems to weave through everything. You're like, no, this stuff isn't that bad. Maybe it'll jump in with both feet.
Mark Warner:
Both feet, I was always pulled back. I was always pulled back to the martial arts no matter where I was, what I was doing, I'd always say it was always flashed before me. While I was in Korea, there were producers making crazy arguments, the US Army, you know, had done some kung fu. So I said, “Okay, let's go”. So even at that moment, I did want two classes with him. I was pulled back into it, it just appeared. It just appears this rack of stuff behind me that those are all memories. I can go right down that rack and you get memories from each one of those.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If you're listening rather than watching it's weapons rack sticks and knives, what kinds of pokey and smacky things.
Mark Warner:
Each one I'll give you this is a different one.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It is a small, wide blade, pair of knives.
Mark Warner:
If you follow flyswatter to jump now, everybody knows that Wing Chun. I'm going to talk to the Wing Chun practitioner or the Kung Fu practitioners. Though Wing Chun is southern Chinese art. I got these in depth in China, when I took a trip over there to the Shaolin Temple and that area was as big as the US and my mom loved it when I would want to try it. I get a phone call once there's an earthquake in China. We're not going to that area, we're going way over there.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let me guess what she said, “just be careful”. Of course. That's every mom when their kid takes a trip doesn't matter. I will just be careful. I'm worried about you.
Mark Warner:
Now I'll go up a few years when you get to China, we should go to a thing. Alright, now I've gotten all right. So out who's the biggest school that you know of? All the martial arts schools.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Here? I know a few schools that are in the 250 to 300 student range.
Mark Warner:
I was in a school that had 10,000 students, and that was one of the biggest ones because they get out their bodyguards, movie stars, and they go that line. So they do like four hours in the morning. Then they go to school, and they do four hours in the afternoon martial arts, right? I was up at six, they were out there training, they trained for like two hours before they went to breakfast. These are all ages. So that was quite an experience. That was one of the experiences, and they do all they practice. I've heard people say that Shaolin Kung Fu is not good. I'm not going to go up against those guys. I've seen it.
Actually, my instructor over there, [00:24:45-00:25:47] comes over here twice a year. And he teaches and he taught me this risk, like with a big smile on his face. He's a Buddhist, [00:25:50-00:25:58]. Rich real quick. So we went over there. Now downtown, there are many shops for either the students or the tourists. And they're loaded with martial arts weapons. I'm like, oh, this is awesome. And of course, I brought a few things. Then you get up to the Shaolin Temple itself. There are students up there, but during the day, it's very, very, very touristy now, which is great for the martial arts. Everybody gets to go see this area. My opinion about Shaolin Temple, it's like a university. It's where they keep all the knowledge of all the different kung fu styles. If you study Shaolin arts, you have different areas. You have [00:26:42-00:26:44], you have all these different styles of martial arts, it's actually taught at Shaolin Temple. So as your university, is it the birthplace of martial arts? Probably not because the Shaolin Temple is only like 2000 years old. Chinese martial arts have been around at least 5000 years, I think. Right. So it is like a university, and it's a university where universities are full of knowledge. So then I get to go to [00:27:12:00:27:14] up in the mountains. You may have heard the legends.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Can you tell us?
Mark Warner:
The legend of [00:27:23-00:27:33]
Jeremy Lesniak:
No.
Mark Warner:
Oh, good.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't know. I don't know this thing that he was. I'm embarrassed. I feel like it should be the way you're feeling?
Mark Warner:
Yes. All right. Bodhidharma. Who brought Buddhism? Well, he actually was not the first. He was like the third. Abbot [00:27:55-00:27:56]. The reason he brought Buddhism from India. And they say that he found the monks who were studying the Buddhism week. So, when they say I went up into the mountain for nine years, and gaze into the wall, and had been up the mountain, I went up. And if you ever hear anybody say, “Why do those monks run up the mountain every day?” Tell them to go walk up the mountain one time, they'll know why the monks run up the mountain. Now it's hard.
It used to be easy, because there used to be trails going up the mountain. Now it's there so now that we're like upstairs. You walk in there, you walk into that cave, you're like, oh my god, I almost dropped to my knees when I walked into the cave there. So my impression was that I can solve the room where he stayed at Shaolin Temple, my impression when he walked up the mountain in the morning, meditation case, and then came down the mountain. And then, of course, he came up with some of his internal energy. That's where you can start to combine the internal with the external in martial arts. That's what he brought into it. That's what he put into it. And that's a very important element that we need and that many people are lacking. Did you enjoy running and working? Then it brings your abilities up further and further. So where was I? I was in China somewhere.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So we first kind of took a tangent and and, I'd like to tangent back. All right, we can do that. Why did you open a school? Because when we kind of left off teaching you were almost making a living teaching. You didn't have the responsibility of having to run the school or make the rent or deal with any of the multitude of things that everybody wanted. Listening comes from owning a school. And yet you made the conscious choice at some point nobody ever opens well. We have heard a couple stories of people opening schools accidentally, but very rarely does someone open a school accidentally. There's a decision there that's intense, probably even a conversation with your instructor as you decide to go open your own school.
Mark Warner:
For more knowledge of the martial arts. When I started martial arts, I loved watching martial arts movies. So I saw he's a bad guy. And that big bad guy was Cobra Kai now.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Martin Kove?
Mark Warner:
No. The other one.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, the guy who plays Terry silver.
Mark Warner:
Yes, yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I forgot the actor's name.
Mark Warner:
I saw him do a really easy armbar. I want to be able to pick out over time like that. Like how long or how to do that. So it's this type of searching for knowledge that I wanted. I also watched stool quant videos to try to pick up some stuff. And I can just use really easy techniques. I took it to a school and showed it. And the structure is like, we don't do that. Well, why not? Oh, it's not part of our curriculum. Okay. So these incidents got me looking for explanations as to what I was doing. It culminated with me opening my school. And that started a whole new journey. Because at the time I was teaching Kempo, Karate, and like, okay, let's see where I can go with this. Let's see what I can do with this. Let's see how there are no bad arts. But you need really good teachers in the arts. I've got to drop a name about one of the good guys in the arts, Craig [00:32:17-00:32:18].
Jeremy Lesniak:
Been on the show a number of times.
Mark Warner:
He's taken his art. He's taken his art to the next level. Whereas I went off in another direction.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But at the risk of, you know, injecting information. Because generally I come into these episodes, I don't know a lot of the details. But in this case, I do. You just told us that your instructor said this isn't part of the curriculum, they put up a prayer wall for you. Whereas Craig's instructor has not only not done that, but Ben has encouraged him in the other direction.
Mark Warner:
Well, yeah, right. But then again, if you look at Craig's instructor, his instructor was my instructor. So people branched off and said, we need to encourage our students to be better than we were. And that's what myself and I know, Craig's instructed us to. How many people say that? I've heard a lot of people say that we want our students to be better than we were. And no, they really don't.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Do you think they think they want it? Or do you think they're aware that they're not being truthful?
Mark Warner:
I think DPO has a downside, he has to be aware. That's why I'm where I, that's why I am where I am right now. Is because even though it was all my circles, circle circles, holding me back, I still felt like I could do more and funny. Because when I talked to the when I talk to these people, most of the time, I encourage them, let me help you build your school. Let's do stuff together to build your school that you better and No, no. They say no. Now I am where I am doing what I'm doing, working with all kinds of great people. In fact, I'm 63 and I just started working with Steven Watson Norbit.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Nice. Those were on the show. Yep. Yep.
Mark Warner:
So it's, it's continuing education for myself and my students, that we all need to keep up, keep going. Keep rocking and rolling.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What's your mindset? You know, because I'm sure we'll get into it. You know, you're currently training and teaching a variety of things, and I know there's some blurriness to it in the way you present it to your students. But you're active with a few things. So what, I would imagine that you've got to be chosen, you don't have time to train everything with everyone. So there's a decision process there. So, when you experience something when you meet someone like Stephen Watson, and you say, you know, I think this is someone I want to train with? What's that decision process? Like? Why maybe not specifically him? But why in general? Might you, at your age, your rank, your degree of experience, want to take on another instructor?
Mark Warner:
Well, first, I'm gonna go ahead. Experience has nothing to do with what I need or want to learn. If you look at the role of martial arts, it's so vast. I mean, I was recently at your weekend learning a lot of great stuff, getting a lot of great insulation. So believing that I have the ultimate experience and knowledge is full of limitations on what I want to do? Well, that's kind of like the Bruce Lee thing wasn't as cool. So there should be no, you should always be learning from someone. I think that one of the reasons that we'll have Steven is because he wants to say yes, if you have no one you should learn from the rocks and the trees. And I think he said on our show at some point. I've known him for a while. So that was a really good decision. Went off track here somewhere. That was everything I've done.
Like I said, I believe in karma, and abilities. Everything that motivates me gets me to the next point. So I can flick and teach the next generation basically. So most of the time, I did not find the arts. The arts found me. A lot of us after I opened my school, the arts started to find me. I was on the tournament circuit back in 9899. That's where I met [00:37:24-00:37:26] my northern mattress instructor. I've been with him since ‘98. And he led me to shuffle [00:37:32-00:37:34] over in China for the Shaolin. Shifu used to come here, he'll be coming over again after it's been clarified a little bit. Pre-COVID, he comes over once a year and is instructed by his assistant to come over the other half of the year. So we had one at one end, one or the other. Then I started training with Mike Williams in 2007. During college, he introduced me to my colleague instructor right now to ‘90. And Michael introduced me to [00:38:04-00:38:08]. So these are the experiences that I just flow into.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So I think it's an important question. So I'm gonna go back, I'm going to ask it again. Who makes the cut? How do you decide I'm going to invest the time to train with this person in this art, versus the vast majority, you're not training, you will never have the ability to train with most people? Why do you choose the people that you choose?
Mark Warner:
Why do I choose the people that I choose? You know, that's the way we avoid the question when you repeat the question right? Now, you can also buy you time.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But as you start to think, it's an easy way to create a sacred space in a conversation that doesn't require a lot of thought, so you can digest a bit more and maybe come to the beginning of what you want to say.
Mark Warner:
Yep, exactly. Well, like I said, I don't have time. I don't pick the teachers, all the styles, the styles and the teachers pick me at this point in my life. I like to train with actually, although my teachers are also my allies now. I trained as allies.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't know what we generally hear on this show. What do you mean by ally?
Mark Warner:
I'll go back to what I said before, if I came to you as a teacher and said, I want to help you extend your school. actually enjoy your thinking. And you go no,no, no. Well, that's done and this is just to teach us and the teacher that will work. I believe this is the direction that all instructors go.
Now, a lot of the instructors I'm meeting now, thank you very much our allies, and they're all thinking the same things. I see them helping their students. You see all these good instructors helping us through an instructor that I'm working with without pushing their students this way, pushing them up over their heads.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's a great visual.
Mark Warner:
Those are allies, knows more than just teach US allies are more than just teach us is someone you work in conjunction with synchronicity with. Like I said, I've not seen Stephen Ferrer for the past couple years, five, six years now. And it's funny, because I was taking a zoom classroom, we're doing zoom. And I even sent him a message saying that was awesome. I learned so much about what I thought I already knew.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And is that the goal? Is it to refine specific things? Is it hey, “I'm going to be an open book”. And I'll let you cram whatever knowledge you want in my face. You know, again, because you're, you occupy an interesting place in the martial arts landscape, in that the vast majority of people who started training roughly around the time that you trained are based on my observation. They have existed in a single style at any given time.
And most of them have, maybe switched style once, you know, they started in this, and then they switched over to this after 10/15/20/30 years. Right. And you just just got in the way and so folks who have not been on the show, you may not know that we do this, but we ask all of our guests to submit a form, you know, we ask a handful of questions.
It's to help guide not only my role here on the show, but to get the guests to think about a few things. And you listed off not only the arts that you were active in, but the very specific flavors or lineages of those arts in a way that most people do not do. Right you. And so I might be falling down in informing this question. Where I think I'm trying to go, let me try it again. Given that context I just laid out, I can help you. Okay, go for it if you know where I'm going, please pick up the ball.
Mark Warner:
lineage is very important. Good lineage is more important. And I'm gonna go back to y'all. And all in the weekend where I crossed hands with Andrew Adams. I was amazed. Because he's the karate kick. But he was so sensitive. I was like, Where does this come from? This comes from training. So the people that have the proper lineagen training, they should stay with Eric, maybe do a little crushering here and there. But when I crossed my hands with him, it was like, This is awesome. This is great. Somebody who's trained in one art for so long, and is able to do this, when you think of Karate Kid, is just drawing blasting punches. I never found that I'm starting to find that I had, like Steve Watson.
I'm dropping names like and dropping names. And he said the train was trees, trees and stones. That's what I did for a long time to find my way. Now starting to find people who give the strongest lineages, though. I haven't held on to all my lineages because they are off doing other things. They're off doing other things not so much.. Like I said, arts find me and arts lose me. But like I said, the kind of lineage I stopped I was like, this is something this is something special.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It sounds like we're hearing a variant on when the students ready the master appears. Is that a good way to put it? These things pop up for you? And you're like, huh, it's time for that. And you trust your gut. So a good way to put it.
Mark Warner:
I would have to switch that one. Because where I have come from and where I've been. So, now it's when the Master is ready, students will appear there.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay, I think that's probably a deep distinction. Can you expand on that?
Mark Warner:
It's actually probably more symbiotic. Okay? That we kind of find each other because I've been ready for a long time. Getting to the right point was my journey. The people I work with now pretty much you're all on the same page. They want to promote the martial arts, they want to move their students, they want to promote good feelings. They want everyone to have good feelings, be smiling and laughing. I'm gonna go back. I'm going off again. This was at a tournament that Craig and I were going to love. And we're sharing there. And, of course, he runs his school, I run mine.
We had two students sparring with each other. And he's standing here and I'm standing here. And all of a sudden he starts talking too soon. All right, I started talking. And we're coaching our suits. He initially hits you like a block that kicks, kicks, kicks, and rolls. They were laughing we're having a great time because we're coaching our students. The great thing about that was the last time I had a great time. That's where that whole day turned into. Now he won't be 30 years old, but I think he's aware. I think he's a lot more aware than a lot of the instructors.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Anybody who's had the chance to work with Craig, or even just know Craig from the context of whistlekick, and I think he appreciates holding this record most number of appearances on martial arts radio without having a formal interview episode like this knows that Craig is a unique individual. And it's one of the reasons I consider him such a good friend. And when I think about the dynamic between you and Craig, it makes me wonder.
And so let me ask, let me let me go back again and ask this question a different way, not because I'm trying to beat a dead horse, but because there's something that my gut tells me I'm trying to pull out of this. And I trust my gut when it comes to dealing with the show. Would it be fair to say that when you know, you flip the state and when the student is ready, who's ready to master appealing?
You said, when the master is ready, the student will appear? Is it fair to say that as we connect these various pieces, it's an exchange that the instructors you take on would likely just as readily say, I'm going to learn just as much having mark as a student, as you would say, I'm going to learn just as much from having this person as my instructor. Is it that sort of collaborative teaching environment?
Mark Warner:
A lot of it may not be the, it may not be the physical aspect, that definitely a collaboration. Like with my instructor in the Philippines, [00:48:444-00:48:46] as a definite collaboration there. I mean, we were working together to strengthen his art a little bit. And was Craig knocking on my door? I'm like, “Oh, what do you need?
Jeremy Lesniak:
And for those that don't know, you are Craig's wing chun teacher, Kung Fu teacher, Kali teacher?
Mark Warner:
Kung Fu and Kali.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Kung Fu and Kali, okay?
Mark Warner:
But his mind is so open, that he's ready for whatever I put into it. And I will go to that same tournament, right. I'm sitting there watching my students. Also see this student over here, doing some kung fu that I taught with big smiles on my face. I'm like, “This is awesome”. And of course, that's completely against my students, but it's still so awesome to see this stuff. So this kind of collaboration that we need everywhere. No stopping, no hesitation. “Oh, it's not me and mine. No, it's you and yours”. And now that's what I get from my instructors. It's ours. Stop in mind it's not unity. It's ours. But that's helpful. Did I go off on another tangent?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, no, it's beautiful. You know, the show, you know, there's no bad direction.
Mark Warner:
No bad direction, wow.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We really haven't had one yet, you know, seven years in you, you've put a lot of pieces together for yourself as a martial artist over your time training. How do you distill or convey that for your students?
Mark Warner:
Slowly, and it's getting slower all the time, which is a good thing. Because somebody, you know, and it's actually a good thing, because now that I stepped back, and I'm starting to slow down, I'm going, you've got me going. You just got me going back to where I began. That's about pure heart and soul and passion. I didn't worry about other stuff. I'm getting more and more like that, again, I don't worry about other stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So maybe my other stuff. What's the other stuff?
Mark Warner:
I think you call them thumbs in the belts, walking around, that kind of stuff, all that stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Concerned with things that are not the desire to become better. Right, exactly.
Mark Warner:
So now, when I'm teaching this strike here, I'll break it down, we're striking with this, today, I will strike with a palm, then we can do it and we can engage. The thing is, let's get out some pads. Let's get out the mung bean pads, we'll toss them back and forth. So you can see how this field will hit them like this, we'll get the club pads. So I can teach that for like 15 minutes, just that one hand position. They enjoy it, they love it, the feelings that are coming from me. That's what I'm doing. Now, that's how I'm conveying things. If you get back to it. You were always hearing that all martial arts are one mountain.
So all the martial arts I teach will go right up there and will bring us right up there. And right when I teach a front punch, very traditional right from here, make sure it's guided where it should be the waist tucked the way it should be. The fundamentals are all fundamental. But when you get down to your fundamentals, they're all the same. Pretty much the same across the board.
There may be slight differences. I like to talk. I like to say that about chicken, different spices on chicken, you have Italian chicken, Chinese chicken, Filipino chicken, what advice do you have on our chicken. So we all have chicken, and it's just the spices that you put on top of it, that's what's going to make the difference. But if you don't cook the chicken, right, it's not gonna be good, no matter what you put on top of it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
This is the first time I've heard that analogy, and I love it. I love it. Because it's two factors, right? The mountain analogy is wonderful. And for those of you who haven't heard it, you're probably new to the show if that's the case. But it's this idea that as martial artists, we all start at different places at the base of the mountain. And as we progress, we're moving up the mountain, some of us have a more circuitous path than others. But as we get closer to the top of the mountain, we become closer to each other.
You know, Mark, and I may start on opposite sides of the mountain with our training and be, you know, miles away from each other. As we move up, we now are closer and you can generally see that in what we do. But this idea with the chicken. I like that better. Because we're talking about it. It brings in this notion that sometimes the chicken is not cooked well and it can make you sick. And not only does it not taste good. Doesn't feel right in your mouth. But how you spice it is irrelevant at that point. Right.
Mark Warner:
Exactly. When I originally heard the mountain thing I heard a Chinese version. I heard you on another mountain beyond that mountain sky. So I might have originally in my mind been like, “Oh, I have another idea behind another auto there”. And then we have the sky. So martial arts became a lifelong process. And all these different arts became my passion. I know the passion. I'll say like, I mean, people will call me insane and they are probably right for trying to do arts. But it's a lifelong passion. It's something that I want and I want to hand over to my students and see that I'm not married and don't have any kids. It's my own life. I consider all my son's a family now even if they have extended family.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right? Okay. So when you think about this journey that you've been on, one of the things that's striking me is that you are at an age where a lot of martial artists start to narrow. I'm not gonna say they're closing their mind. But I will say that as we get older, our willingness to start over, put on a white belt, whatever you want to call it, and take a new teacher seems to diminish. It almost sounds like you're going in the opposite direction. Or you are becoming more open to learning more things, new things. So if we take that and we extend a few more years. Do you think you'll continue to add more new instructors or arts? Are you going to close? You know, lock the door on any of the ones that you have? Are you just going to keep stacking?
Mark Warner:
Stacking is not the word that I would use. Training? Yes. Stacking? No. it's like the [00:56:36-00:56:40] Called the grand ultimate fist. How many falls through that? Maybe some variance over that. So why would that be the grand ultimate fist? Because [00:56:55-00:56:57] is so huge? Not only is it physical, mental and special. So you have all these elements involved? And there's more to that art than people think. And I could go on for hours. Was it just that art but I want I'm gonna continue with doors wide open looking at everything. I just crossed ended with a karate kid going oh my god, look at this. This guy's [00:57:25-00:57:27] I started watching Jesse Enkamp.
Jeremy Lesniak:
He’s remarkable.
Mark Warner:
Karate. I do have this. I do have a personal secret that's starting to evolve. Most of my primary instructors aren't we're not aren't here in the US. It seems that you're calling us stacking. I'm actually reducing things. I think even though my eyes are wide open here in the United States. I believe they stack. I don't know what it is. But they seem only physical. A lot of them seem only interested in a secret physical aspect of martial arts. You get to get this so much more than that. As you know, as Andrew knows. I'm going to keep Andrew there. Thank you guys because karate isn't supposed to be as sensitive. That's a trick. That's that's the point right there. That's the point you need. You have to be able to put a hole together now. I know I've gone off on another tangent now.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Please do.
Mark Warner:
But you don't put it all together when you lock the door and you stopped studying, you stopped training. I mean, you have another great event coming up is free training. I'm gonna drop it right now. Because I'm like, last time I started with Bruno. Yeah, I'm gonna hold off right now because my body won't keep me. I'm bringing my staff and my demo theme up next year. One of the things I want them to do is work with him.
Jeremy Lesniak:
For those of you who don't know, bro, he's been on the show. He's a Capoeira practitioner.
Mark Warner:
Oh, yeah. forget to mention they didn't I hope sorry about that. That's okay. Hey, that's my job. Because they can move that way. Whereas I'm not sure if I could move that way and portray the way that he does. So not only the learning that I'm doing for me, it's for my students as well. I mean, to slow down now would be a sin. That's part of my backward slice. 63 people are getting ready to retire. I'm getting ready to go. I want to rock and roll now. There's so much so so much like so much left in life.
I think every 20 years we reinvent ourselves anyways. So I'm going through another reinvention hit six cm, reinventing myself yet again. Now some of the arts that I do, it's interesting a lot of the arts that I do. Because when you get down to it, each part of the art has to be practiced just like a Front punch. And if you don't think either was my colleague, each move should be practiced like a Front punch.
You start, you know how to do a really good Front punch, that punch is going to be devastating if you only do it on the outside. So same thing with every aspect of every art that I do every art that you ever want to do. Because that's a lot of stuff I see on my license. We're about well balanced. I do Kali, I do Wing Chun, I do know that Memphis, a very balanced life, right. That's all I do. That's all I wanted to do. It's a passion. Some call it obsession. Some call it insanity. But hey, that's me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So let me ask this one last question. It is one of my favorites. So you have the opportunity to go back and spend just a few minutes. With a 16 year old do you have a conversation? Doesn't have to be about martial arts, but probably would be? What would you say? What would you want to share with a 16 year old you about? Whatever, about anything?
Mark Warner:
How many minutes do I have to talk to him?
Jeremy Lesniak:
A few. And I don't want to put too strong a label on it, not hours. But more than you know, it's not like it's five seconds.
Mark Warner:
In the matter of time that I would have. Knowing what I know now. I would lay before him a grand scheme on how to perfect his martial arts, so much about what to do and when to do it and what not to do. Don't climb that tree house and jump out to break your knee. That didn't work out and didn't end well. I'd like to tell my students to sign up, I tell my teenage students to let me go there. I tell my teenage students, I wish they would listen to the war. Find your passion. Now. If you look at today's society, any passion that you find now can follow you through life. If you're 16, and you decide to change course, you can do that at any time. I opened my school when I was 38.
So I was no spring chicken if you don't know what you want to do go to college. And that's from a guy who is in the service. Hopefully you find your passion in college. To go there and do what you're gonna do. This isn't to myself, This isn't to my students, when they saw this, they didn't watch it, watch, you're gonna leave Mark and read it off, come back and haunt you. There'll be like but there are better ways than the way that I took to do things. That's what I tell him. And that's what I tell my students: Live Your Passion. Mine's the martial arts. And I'll continue to do this for two. There was a Chinese guy, I don't remember the name. They got rackets. They say let's lift it to 250. I'm gonna go to 251. So I have a few more years to spread the joy.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Like I said in the intro, passion and a thirst for more learning, more meeting, more people being more as a martial artist and Tashi Warner's become someone that I look up to. And I'm glad that I got to learn more about him. I'm glad you all got to hear from him. Thank you for coming on the show. I know I'll talk to you again soon.
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