Episode 617 - Role of Parents & Family in a Martial Arts Household
In this episode, Jeremy and co-host Andrew Adams give their take on the Role of Parents & Family in a Martial Arts Household.
Roles of Parents & Family in a Martial Arts Household - Episode 617
The role of the parents usually starts at the time they encourage their child to go and train in Martial Arts. However, there’s more to parents’ role than bringing their child to the dojo in order for their children to have a successful career in the Martial Arts. In this episode, Jeremy and Andrew talk about some of the mistakes parents do as well as how parents and family can have a positive impact in order for a child to excel in Martial Arts.
Role of Parents & Family in a Martial Arts Household
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hello and welcome to another episode of whistlekick Martial Arts Radio. This is something that we haven't done in a very long time. It has been so long since there has been an in-person episode if we could [00:00:17.18] up to a whole bunch of things, but if you are watching and hopefully, you're watching on YouTube where, you know, watching the YouTube clip from whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, you could see that Andrew and I are in the same physical place-- how crazy is that, right? It's not a green screen! Like, we're actually here.
Andrew Adams:
[00:00:35.02] activate?
Jeremy Lesniak:
We're gonna get so down far the rabbit hole. I promise, we're gonna do our best to keep these episodes tight, you know, as much fun as we're having. Today's episode is about the role of parents in bringing up a martial arts child. We're gonna talk about the parents that train, the parents that don't train, unpacking all those things because in different schools, in different environments, there are different things that matter. So first off, if you're new to the show, welcome. Thanks for listening. If you wanna go deep in what we do at whistlekick, go to whistlekick.com, you're gonna find all the stuff that we've got going on over there. We've got a store; you can use the code podcast15 to save 15% off any of the stuff that we got over there. We've also got a website for this show, whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. You can check out every episode we've ever done. You can look at photos and links, transcripts. You can leave us a tip; you can sign up for the newsletter. You can do all kinds of stuff over there, so check that out. If you want to support things that I've mentioned, the number one thing you could do is you can join our Patreon, pateron.com/whistlekick, and you can get in for as little as 2$ a month. It goes up from there, and recently, we rolled out at no extra charge. We're gonna start sending you stuff, stickers and t-shirts and things like that. So, go check that out, patreon.com/whistlekick. There’s a tier that will work for you, and you get exclusive content. It's really one of the ways that we try to cover the expenses on this show. So, without further ado, Andrew, welcome to my training space.
Andrew Adams:
Awesome! Hey, it's great to be here. It's nice to actually see someone in person for the first time in a while.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, it's been a long time since we've been in the same physical spot. 18 months or so?
Andrew Adams:
That’s true. Free training day.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, free training day of 2019.
Andrew Adams:
Long time ago.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hopefully, we are able to do that again.
Andrew Adams:
We will.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We will, yeah, soon. I'm looking forward to it. Parents' role. You started as a kid, I started as a kid, I was a lot younger than you.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, I didn’t start ‘til I was in high school. Freshman high school.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But parents still have a role and when we think about... kids, and kids joining martial arts. Most kids have at least some encouragement from their parents to join, but the role of the parents is more than logistics--
Andrew Adams:
It should be. It should be. It doesn't mean that it is.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Are kids gonna last if that's the only role?
Andrew Adams:
I mean, well, that's what I would argue-- no, they wouldn't.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I would agree. So, if we think about it, let's break this down because we probably just gotta break down our conversations and make sure that we're talking about things in a procedural way. Otherwise we're gonna get lost, we're gonna miss pieces. Let's first talk about... parents who don't train. Because I think that's a pretty important delineation for us to make. Parents who train versus not train because two very separate but sticky wickets, as one of my high school teachers would've said. So, let's imagine we've got a kid, it doesn't matter whether this kid is five or I think, really, fifteen. If they're not able to drive themselves, if they're not paying for their classes themselves, let's call that a kid. You know, there are exceptions. We can't talk about all of them, but that kind of general place... Let's work backwards cause I think this is often the easier thing to do. Where do parents get it wrong?
Andrew Adams:
Sure, sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let's talk about some of the mistakes, the exceptions to the rules, and then we can build some rules.
Andrew Adams:
Well I think the number one way is to not be involved, in any way shape or form, with what your child is learning. If the parent is a hundred percent only involved with, "You're gonna go to class today? Okay, great. I'll drive you, drop you off." Maybe they even leave during class and come back an hour later and then, they don't think about what their child has been doing during that hour, and then, next week or the next class, "Okay, I'll drive you to class again, drop you off. Bye!" and they come back, and I think that's the-- in my opinion-- the worst-case scenario. The least amount of involvement is the worst.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right, and while we don't have studies for this with martial arts classes, we have plenty of studies for academic education that show parents who are involved, who check the kids' homework, who asks questions about-- are engaged. The children learn more, function better, etc. So, I can't imagine we can't apply that stuff to martial arts education because it is. When we train, we are learning. We are being educated in martial arts.
Andrew Adams:
Absolutely.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, what might the bare minimum look like to get some of those benefits? Where's the bare minimum where parents are having a positive impact versus the paradigm that you share?
Andrew Adams:
The least involvement.
Jeremy Lesniak:
The bare minimum to do anything; the kids get to class, they drive them to class, they wash their uniforms, and they pay their monthly dues. What is the next step-up from that?
Andrew Adams:
I would think, at a minimum, it is engaging your child in what they learned that day. I mean, even going before that, I would say staying in the class, watching the class with the kids. Being there and involved in watching what they're doing, I think is important to-- it would be to me, but the next step would be engaging your child with "What did they learn today?" Now, you as a parent might have no idea what that form is supposed to look like and so, your child demonstrating it, it might be really bad, but that's okay. The child doesn't know that, necessarily, but if you show encouragement and wanna see what they learned, they're gonna to be excited to show you which keeps them more involved.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What's the number thing that gets kids out of martial arts, that pulls them out? Them not being excited about it, and something else making them excited. If you can believe strongly that your child will benefit from martial arts training, keep them engaged. Keep them excited.
Andrew Adams:
Absolutely. I agree wholeheartedly. You know, they're gonna be more engaged and want to be there because they're excited to show you stuff and because you are showing an interest in it, they're gonna continue, hopefully, to be even more excited about it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure, and so what's the next level up? I'm thinking it's... home training, some kind of external training... are you encouraging them? Are you demanding of them? You know, where's all that going?
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, I would agree. I mean, first step would be... you know, engaging the student after class, "What did you learn?" The next step is making a space in your home available for the child to practice on there and encouraging, not forcing, I'm a strong advocate of not forcing your kids to do things but encouraging them to be able to practice on their own at home. Whatever those things are. Maybe if they're super new, maybe it's just going home and doing high blocks, which if you are on video you could see me do high blocks. You know, or maybe they're just working punches but at least being able to do that between classes will help to keep them engaged and involved and will make them progress faster.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure, completely agree. It's a really fine line between pushing the child, such that they start to have negative association with martial arts or anything versus encouragement and helping them correlate additional effort, home training with faster progress, such that they are enjoying the experience of class time in martial arts training overall. And I think that the way you get there, we talked about it a little bit, rewarding the results-- the effort.
Andrew Adams:
The effort, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
"Hey, you just went out and you just did your form six times, cool, that's awesome, high-five." It doesn't have to be a food reward. It doesn't have to be something big which is helping them associate, "When I do extra, I feel good," and if you can do that, I think that... if we were to take a big step back, that is the number one thing that any parent can do for any child in anything. If you see them doing something that you know is beneficial for them, helping them build a positive association with effort correlating to results.
Andrew Adams:
Yup, absolutely.
Jeremy Lesniak:
The more the effort, they'll see the results, they'll connect that chain, all goes well.
Andrew Adams:
Yup, and to understand that it doesn't have to be a huge chunk of time this practice, you know, for the listeners may likely know that I teach drumming as a job, and I often will get parents that will ask me, "My son/daughter has to practice for an hour a day, right? Everyday? Am I off?" I tell them, I tell the parents with the student there so that there's no misunderstanding, "I am not an advocate of sitting down to practice your drums for an hour a day. I think that's actually very detrimental." And the parents look at me like,"Wh-what? How can that possibly be? They have to practice a lot." As a beginner, to sit down for an hour and practice something, whether it's drumming or whether it's martial arts. To sit down at home on your own, it's different when you're in a class. You know, and you're being taught; you can be taught a lesson for an hour and a half, that's fine but to practice on your own for an hour becomes a chore.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's so boring.
Andrew Adams:
And then, the child will lose interest. I would much rather my students practice for five minutes in the morning, ten minutes at lunch time, maybe if they're really lucky, they have fifteen minutes before dinner to practice. That is way more useful than sitting down for an hour. And so, understanding that just that little bit of practice... Going outside, doing your form for six times, like how long is that really gonna take as a beginner? Maybe ten minutes. That's very rewarding and enriching for the student, even though it might not look like they did a lot.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Practice as long as it's fun. Not that the kids can be able to understand that instruction necessarily, but if you can build an environment, in all the ways that environment is built where they associate fun, enjoyment, progress with this effort. Eventually as they age, not only we not have to encourage them, you’re gonna tell them to stop practicing – number 1. Number 2, you've just set them up for life because that's how life works. If you can find the intersection of the things that you enjoy working on, are able to progress at and see results from that progress. That's all you need to do, that's the secret to life professionally as far I'm concerned.
Andrew Adams:
Absolutely.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So why not build that in early? Where it goes wrong is parents doing what you talked about with drums, "Go practice your forms, go practice. I pay for classes-"
Andrew Adams:
It's only been twenty minutes; you still have forty minutes left.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There is something to be said for discipline, but if you are looking for long term involvement in martial arts, that is not the way to do it. Think about all the things that kids are required to do for a long period of time. How many of them do they enjoy? I've said time and time again, I would rather when a student hits a wall where no one is enjoying training then the parents let them decide to stop training because otherwise they're far less likely to go back later as an adult. I'd rather they have a positive association saying, "Oh man, I wish I hadn't quit" than "I wish my parents had made me continue."
Andrew Adams:
Good point.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's not a good thing. Is there anything else for the parent who doesn't train that we should unpack before we go together?
Andrew Adams:
I think it's also beneficial for the parent to have an understanding with the instructor how their child is doing. If you think of any other learning environment kids go through, there's a report card. Sometimes, it's literally just a report card and that's all there is but every school I know does a parent-teacher conference at least once a year during the school year. Sometimes, twice a year towards the beginning and towards the end, to see how their student has been progressing. I think it's important for parents to be involved and engaged in that aspect as well.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That actually brings up an idea I never even thought of. A lot of martial arts schools tend to correlate that progress and engagement, that parent recognition of how the child is doing with belt rank, with promotions.
Andrew Adams:
Yup.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, there's an opportunity. You could have parent-teacher conferences.
Andrew Adams:
Sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You could have report cards. Those things could work.
Andrew Adams:
Absolutely! It just gives the parent more engagement to understand what their child is doing because- let's say your child is six years old, you can ask them after class what they did and they can't necessarily express verbally cause they don't quite have a full understanding of what's going on.
Jeremy Lesniak:
They're gonna talk about what was fun. That’s the end of the conversation.
Andrew Adams:
Exactly, not necessarily what was learned so I think having an engagement with the instructor is really important.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, let's cover up parents who train because I think all too often, this is where it goes really sideways…
Andrew Adams:
It can for sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
…because quite often, like in a family style class, the parent finds something they really enjoy and there is frustration if the parent and the child start the same time and one of them starts progressing faster than the other, usually the adult because they practice and they have body awareness.
Andrew Adams:
But depending on the age of the adult.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure. These are things that all come down to recognizing that the child may be on a different pace path than the adult. I don't care if you are a Black belt and you run the school and your child is a student. When you are home, you should be operating as a parent because I've seen so many problems come up from the other. It becomes blurry. Now, if your exception, if you have a school and your child trains loves to train and you train at home together and the kid calls you by your title. There are exceptions to every rule, I'm not gonna fight find fault with that, but I think more often what is the case we are talking about? We are talking about a parent who starts maybe a couple years after, a couple years before the kid, and so they have their own experiences with martial arts training and then often times they wish they started earlier. They create that association with the child and they push, push, push.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
“Let’s go to competitions. You could be so awesome.” Right? They take cheerleading too far.
Andrew Adams:
To the next level, past where it should be.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Past where it’s helpful.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And it creates a negative association for the child. So, I think the best thing for a parent and a child to do in this context, when the parent and the child both trains, is to have very clear boundaries. Understand where those are and probably rope in the instructor to get their [00:17:03:01].
Andrew Adams:
Yup, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because I've known instructors who want the parents encourage the kids to train, "Hey, I want them to do this new form three times a day, ten times a day." So, then the parent is helping to implement the request of the instructor. That's very different than "I pay for your classes, go practice." I've known plenty who that seems to be the tone. That’s what I hear from the kids. I even hear it from the parents. "I made my kids go practice seven hours last week." Bragging about that? It doesn’t sound very well.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah. It might sound a little counterintuitive to what we just talked about a second ago about engaging the kids asking them about what they did in class, but when you are a parent who trains keeping that separation of when you are home, you are a parent, when you are in the dojo, you're a student. That doesn't mean that if you train, you're not allowed to engage your child during the weekday between the classes but I think there’s something very different between… because let's face it, adults are likely going to be in a different class. In a minimum, likely learning different things. So, still engaging the child in what they learned is a good thing and I also think…I might go a little off tangent here but the age of the child makes a difference on how you interact with them as well. If I’m training with my six-year-old, talking to them between classes about what they learned is great. And if they want… encouraging them to practice on their own is great and that's lovely but if I'm training with my fourteen-year-old and I'm in a practice at home on my own and say, "Hey Jeremy,” you're my fourteen-year-old, “I'm gonna practice my forms, you wanna train with me?" and if they’re like, “No” then that's okay, it's totally fine.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Model behavior, set it in a positive light.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
One of the things that I've heard some parents say that it's been very helpful for them in their relationship with their child when they both [00:19:11.24] either whether they train or not. They talk about it on the drive home and that's it. Once they get home, that's it. Especially, if something critical has come up, the kid acted up or the kid didn't pass a promotion test. Anything like that, I think it is key. [00:19:33.17]
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, let's see if we can sum this up. The role of parents, as far as it relates to the martial arts education of the child, is to be positive and encouraging and to create and hold to appropriate boundaries.
Andrew Adams:
And be engaged.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And be engaged. I think that's part of being positive.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah. Well, positive, yes but being engaged, asking.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I see what you’re saying. So, we got three.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Positive, engaged, create and maintain appropriate boundaries. Anything else that we should have?
Andrew Adams:
No, I think that's great.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Alright. If you like this show, check out some of the others. If you have topic ideas, email us – jeremy@whistlekick.com. If you have something for a Q&A episode, which we do those periodically, andrew@whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. So that way, I don't see them, so when they are asked, they are kind of a secret.
Andrew Adams:
Fresh questions.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Check out all of the things that we do, go to whistlekick.com, follow us on social media, make sure you're aware of all the different things that we do. From books to training programs at whistlekickprograms.com. We’re adding new ones periodically. We’re adding new books all the time. There's so much going on with what we do. If all you do is listen to the show, that's great! I'm glad you get value out of the show, but you would probably find value with some of the other things we do. The best place to start is whistlekick.com. That's all. So, until next time…
Jeremy Lesniak and Andrew Adams:
…train hard, smile, and have a great day.