Episode 1009 - Meditation for Martial Artists
In this episode, Andrew is joined by Nick Taber and Stephen Watson. They discuss meditation and how we might benefit from it, as martial artists.
Meditation for Martial Artists - Episode 1009
SUMMARY
In this engaging conversation, Stephen Watson, Nick Tabor, and Andrew discuss the intersection of meditation and martial arts. They explore personal experiences with meditation, the importance of mindfulness in training, and how to integrate meditation practices into martial arts classes.
The discussion highlights the value of stillness and reflection, the evolution of meditation practices, and the need to preserve the essence of meditation in a fast-paced world. In this conversation, the speakers delve into the significance of meditation and mindfulness, particularly in the context of martial arts and teaching. They discuss the challenges of maintaining presence in communication, the importance of having a clear mind, and the gradual process of developing a meditation practice.
The conversation emphasizes the benefits of meditation for self-discovery and personal growth, while also addressing the dual nature of meditation as both a healing and a challenging practice. The speakers encourage starting small and being intentional in integrating meditation into martial arts training.
TAKEAWAYS
Meditation can enhance martial arts training.
Meditation is not exclusive to martial artists.
The value of meditation is often underappreciated in martial arts.
Personal experiences shape our understanding of meditation.
Meditation practices can evolve over time.
Emptiness and stillness are crucial in meditation.
Mindfulness can be integrated into everyday actions.
Intentionality is key in meditation practices.
A clear mind is essential for effective responses in martial arts.
Meditation requires guidance and practice to master.
Finding the right time for meditation can enhance its effectiveness.
Meditation benefits martial artists by promoting self-awareness.
Meditation is a journey of self-discovery and understanding.
The dual nature of meditation involves both healing and challenge.
Success in meditation is a gradual process, not instant.
Starting small is key to developing a sustainable meditation practice.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
01:58 Understanding Meditation in Martial Arts
5:01 Personal Experiences with Meditation
7:57 The Evolution of Meditation Practices
10:54 The Importance of Emptiness in Meditation
14:03 Valuing Meditation in Martial Arts
16:56 Integrating Meditation into Martial Arts Training
20:36 Teaching Mindfulness to Students with Disabilities
21:54 The Importance of Presence in Communication
22:55 Clear Mind: The Key to Effective Response
28:15 Taking Baby Steps in Meditation Practice
29:27 Finding the Right Time for Meditation
32:36 Understanding the Benefits of Meditation for Martial Artists
33:05 Meditation: A Journey to Self-Discovery
34:45 The Dual Nature of Meditation
38:04 The Process of Learning Meditation
39:26 Making Meditation Intentional in Martial Arts Training
After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it. Don’t forget to drop them in the comment section down below!
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Andrew (07:20.332)
Welcome you're listening or watching to the next episode of whistlekick martial arts radio and today I'm joined by my good friend Stephen Watson and Nick Tabor Stephen. How are you doing today?
Stephen Watson (07:31.437)
Thank you, I'm feeling wonderful.
Andrew (07:34.369)
Excellent and nick, about yourself?
Nick (07:36.281)
Man, utterly fantastic. Thank you always for having me.
Andrew (07:39.904)
Excellent. So we're the three of us are here. We're going to discuss meditation for martial artists. But before we get into it, I want to make sure to let our listeners know about our new newsletter that we have started up. is martial arts radio specific. You will get information on all the episodes that are coming out. There'll be some bloopers. Maybe you'll find out what we were talking about before we started recording. There's some really fun stuff that happened.
But you can get to that newsletter by going to whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com and there is a button at the top that says subscribe. Not only will you get these emails, you'll also get a free book. I'm not going to tell you what the book is because that would defeat the permit. It's a surprise. You won't know. You can also find out everything that Whistlekick does by going to whistlekick.com. Find out all of the events that we host throughout the country. Find out about our
Stephen Watson (08:11.523)
.
Stephen Watson (08:25.795)
you
Andrew (08:37.38)
products that we sell, whether it's sparring gear or apparel, find out about our training programs, all of that stuff you can find at whistlekick.com. So guys, we are here to discuss meditation. I think we should just take a moment and just.
Andrew (08:58.178)
and one hour later. Okay, that was good. That's good, guys.
Stephen Watson (08:59.362)
One hour later was good. I like that.
Andrew (09:06.564)
You
So, Sifu Steven, you are someone that I know that meditates on a regular basis. And in fact, when I was chatting with you about, we should do an episode together, you were the one that brought up, let's do meditation. meditation is something that is certainly not martial arts specific. Lots of...
Stephen Watson (09:17.056)
Yes.
Stephen Watson (09:25.217)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Watson (09:34.465)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (09:35.116)
I would be willing to millions of people in the world that are not involved in martial arts meditate. But I do think at least to the, I was going to say untrained, but that's not the word I meant to the uninitiated martial artists. They often think meditation goes hand in hand in martial arts. And I think you would probably say it could, but it doesn't have to. So, so I thought that would be a good place to start.
Stephen Watson (09:51.264)
Uh-huh.
Stephen Watson (10:00.926)
I, yeah.
Stephen Watson (10:06.304)
So I think that it suits martial arts. And it's likely to be promoted by every martial arts. But we see less people do it than are maybe are expected to do it in their martial arts. And we see less of those people do it well, or frequently or deeply than we would like. And for me,
I wouldn't restrict it to martial arts. I'd say it's it's a humanity thing. meditation benefits everything except for the villains in your movie. So apart from the villains, it benefits everything. And of course, you know, we're in the martial arts world, and we can absolutely see the benefits of meditation in martial arts.
very often I observe most of my students are teachers themselves. So very often I observe people providing an opportunity to meditate, but there is an instruction. So there's really just sort of a stillness and a silence portion of a class in which the the instructor uses the term meditation, you know, around it, but there's no instruction. And it's really just a
Andrew (11:17.028)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Watson (11:32.894)
and an opportunity to promote stillness rather than internal observation or internal skill. And of course, that's most because most of those instructors don't truly value it because they haven't truly done it. And so it's more of a paying lip service to something which isn't without value because at least people learn that meditation is important and they
Andrew (11:55.086)
Mm-mm.
Stephen Watson (12:01.507)
learn to see other people value it and make time for it, but certainly not value it enough to let it bear fruit, I guess.
Andrew (12:09.892)
Can I question one thing? I would go so far as to say, and I could be wrong listeners, let me know that I am, but I think it probably stems more from not that the instructors don't value it. It's that they don't know what it is. They don't know any better. I mean, I will speak for myself. My experience with meditation in a martial arts class is before class, the instructor would say,
Nick (12:26.566)
Yeah.
Andrew (12:35.972)
in Japanese, mokuso, which is meditate. And we would sit still and quiet for a minute or so. And then at the end of class, the same thing. he would say that at the beginning of the class, our quote, and I'm putting this in air quotes for those watching, um, or for those just listening, you know, the beginning class, the beginning before class was forgetting about everything that happened throughout the day. And like, you're setting your mind up, ready to learn. And at the end of class was.
Stephen Watson (12:38.589)
Mm-hmm
Stephen Watson (12:42.3)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Watson (12:59.866)
you
Andrew (13:04.256)
You're focusing on what did you learn in class today and you're contemplating that, but it was only about a minute. So that's my personal experience with meditation in a martial art class. And I think that's probably what you're you're thinking or you're talking about. Was that correct?
Stephen Watson (13:10.52)
you
Stephen Watson (13:14.759)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Watson (13:21.116)
Correct, absolutely. That's exactly what I see. I don't know that it isn't that they don't value it or they haven't practiced it. I think those kind of go hand in hand to the extent that you practice it, you value it. But also to the extent you value it, you practice it. So those teachers that we describe as, or as I've described, just kind of mostly giving it lip service. It's because they haven't practiced it. And that's why they don't value it. Or maybe chicken and egg. Maybe it started not
Andrew (13:44.164)
Sure.
They don't know the difference yet.
Stephen Watson (13:50.671)
valuing and therefore not practicing it maybe the other way around but in the other case they need to go hand in hand
Andrew (13:56.536)
Yeah. Nick, what's your experience been coming up through martial arts with meditation?
Nick (14:00.517)
man, yeah, I've had, there was an interesting one, because it's similar to what you guys are saying, and my arts are Korean based. So at the very beginning of every class, you know, was chunbi, cheddiup, kunye, anjo, for kneel, and when you kneel, you're expected to sit, you know, with your hands, your belt in one of your hands, and your hands on your knees when you're kneeling, and reflect.
Now, my sensei, original, my first sensei, he did it because his sensei did it. So, I'm okay, that's how we learned how to start the class. But over the years, as we started reading and started talking about it, it became with instruction, you know, as you guys were saying, a bounce off that. So the instruction, at least how I carry my students, you know,
Stephen Watson (14:38.318)
Mm-hmm
Stephen Watson (14:57.018)
Okay.
Nick (14:57.713)
chum bi chereat, kunye anjo. And then when you're ready to do that, you know, instead of, cause we would grow up and we would just sit there and we're really, we're just waiting to hear the clap in order to open our eyes, bow, put our belts on and go. You know, and the first one became, sit still. You know, sit still just to do that focus on breathing and let the day go. Whatever happened, if you're, we were kids, was like your parents.
Whatever your parents said or something, if you have a problem homework, let that go, we're ready for this. And then at the end of the day, shouldn't be chiddy or coon yay on Joe and then wait. And then, you know, as we're waiting for the clap, reflect how proud are you today? With what you did. And then, know, if you're not proud, you got work to do the next time. And then, know, how are you? So then you, okay, you do that. You think about it, reflect and clap.
Stephen Watson (15:26.169)
Right, right.
Andrew (15:39.204)
Mmm.
Nick (15:51.939)
And then I started carrying it on and started working on it even with my own training, you know, to sit for a few moments on my couch and still do the same reflection. What is the purpose of the day or what is the purpose of the exercise I'm going to do and how much gratitude do I have? You know, and that's where I reflected here and I think it's with meditation, there's no one way to do it.
Stephen Watson (16:19.667)
Agree.
Nick (16:20.535)
there's no one way to do it as well. You can do that in the middle of a kata as well and you know as you're doing it and go...
Stephen Watson (16:28.7)
Don't for the listener don't try the first time in the middle of sparring. Just just please continue your point.
Nick (16:33.137)
I was just gonna ask for it. Yeah, do not do it in sparring. If it's slow sparring, you might be able to get away with it though.
Andrew (16:43.47)
Can I disagree with one thing? If you're sparring me, you are allowed to meditate during sparring, but only
Stephen Watson (16:43.639)
Yes.
Nick (16:45.349)
Go ahead.
Stephen Watson (16:49.59)
That's right.
Nick (16:53.041)
But I think, you know, studies go on, like I've been involved with this for over 30 years now. Um, and you know, as we do it, things change, but I think, and I don't know if you guys think the same thing, meditation changes. You know, it's not just sit and sit still. It's, you know, as you're practicing, you know, maybe you get the bag up and you're practicing that roundhouse kick.
And you're concentrating on the, you know, on the foot that's on the ground. You know, how is that pivot feeling? You know, how is that when you hit that, you know, you hit the pad with your other foot, how well is it doing? You know, and remembering those motions and you get into that trance like state. If you're warming up and you're running in place or doing setups or something, are you concentrating on that motion of your spine or.
Stephen Watson (17:30.292)
Yeah.
Nick (17:43.683)
or the legs and the breath, you know, it can be done multiple ways. You know, maybe I took it a little too far here, but I think.
Stephen Watson (17:51.354)
No, it was helpful. Yeah. Can I add a thought here? Yeah. So I'm imagining a page from a book. So maybe we want to picture like our student creed or our principles of our art or something like that, something important. School handbook. And you might imagine that over time, you fill the margins a bit with a few other notes and, you know, additives in a quote from somebody and
Andrew (17:54.904)
Yeah, please.
Stephen Watson (18:18.889)
that's a pretty good document. But if we did that relentlessly, and filled in every blank piece on that page, in time, the page becomes unreadable and unuseful, the original page, but also your added notes, all of it. So there's a value to the space to the emptiness to the blank part of the page. And if we think of a meditation,
period as relatively blank, not to define meditation per se, but relatively blank as it in contrast to most of life. It's very easy for a teacher or a school over time to fill that space. Because they didn't really learn the meditation. They just know that there's a blank period where we all kneel at the beginning of class, or at the end or before you spar or something like that.
And without the sort of respect that comes from the deep practice, and this isn't to be insulting to somebody, it's just a matter of education, right? They may come to feel like, well, this is a good point for me to tell that story, or to give that other advice or make an announcement about testing next week, or because that is an empty spot. But
Andrew (19:33.646)
Mmm.
Stephen Watson (19:37.651)
you know, and maybe a little bit of marginalia is fine. But but by and large, the value is the emptiness, the stillness, the quiet. And this is a larger, a fractal version of what happens inside the meditator, as we begin to promote, preserve and protect some emptiness, some stillness, some quiet, some blank page.
some unwritten paper in the self in the mind. It's very easy for us to crowd it out. Right? Our other things say, Hey, there's an empty space for expression. And I've been burning to make this expression. And so part of our work is to work to preserve that we need to promote it. And then we need to preserve it. It isn't that it has to be absolutely preserved because the marginality can be helpful or funny or
of, you know, instructive and, but, but the general idea is to preserve what you have created. And that would happen in a class too. So we might all of us having done this for decades, might recognize, boy, we used to sit quietly for five minutes. But now it's three, and the teacher has announcements and people have questions, or, or I reflected for a moment, but then I just really was just waiting until the teacher clapped their hands or rang the bell.
Andrew (20:54.724)
Mm.
Stephen Watson (21:03.184)
And so I've crowded the space that I was I was meant to have empty. Right. So anyway, this is a thought I had.
Andrew (21:09.752)
Mmm.
Andrew (21:14.658)
Yeah. Yeah. And you know, it's interesting you say that because especially for, for some children, they have a hard time sitting still and being quiet and, know, keeping themselves regulated. And I certainly know instructors that have used that time for that, that, you know, everybody basically sits still and be quiet so that I can talk about what needs to get done. You know, like, don't, like you mentioned testing is next week. Don't forget to bring this,
Nick (21:30.897)
I'm
Stephen Watson (21:43.577)
Yep.
Andrew (21:44.87)
and you're right. It does kind of defeat the purpose of what that was intended for. That's not to say that those announcements are not important, you know, absolutely. But, I hadn't thought of it that way. That's interesting. Yeah.
Stephen Watson (21:54.895)
Of course they are. Yeah.
Stephen Watson (22:01.015)
It's interesting because there's announcements are important. And the story is in the q &a and the and the added thought besides what I said during class, the extra thing or the homework I wanted to, those are important, but create a time and place for that. The bulletin board, the newsletter, the announcement period, right after we all line up before we take our belts off or something, create a period for that and promote and protect and preserve that for its own purpose, whatever.
you call that right, you know, sort of non curriculum talk period, which that's awkward, but whatever it is. But it's, I was remember talking to a student of mine this week who was she works with ESL students. And she was talking about how the administrators keep pulling her students away because of the fire drill and now they have to make up a test and
Andrew (22:30.841)
Thank
Nick (22:36.785)
Thank
Stephen Watson (22:58.69)
because there's a vacation coming up and they have to go do this other event and there's a lecture and they want to draw and she was saying how they keep pulling her out of ESL because that scene is not as important as the core stuff. And in the same way, you would expect a martial arts teacher to think, well, the form stuff and the sparring and the stretching that's important. And out of tradition, I do a little meditation and I also
Andrew (23:13.176)
Yep. Yep.
Stephen Watson (23:27.048)
you know, talk up what's coming up on the school calendar. But definitely the important things are the sparring, the stretching and the forms, you know, or or whatever the bunkai, whatever it might be. And I think, you know, if this stuff really is important, it would be it would nice to see it. It would be nice to see it as deeply valued and argued for as anything else.
Andrew (23:33.752)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Stephen Watson (23:56.127)
That doesn't mean it has to take up as much time. If you're going to a judo class, we would expect a whole bunch of that class time to be doing physical judo stuff. Fair enough. One of the ways that I recommend people start meditation in martial arts environment. And sometimes they don't have the ability or the confidence to kind of tinker with the curriculum. You know, they've only been teaching for a few years, or they're not the head teacher.
Andrew (24:05.102)
Sure, sure.
Stephen Watson (24:25.376)
but they want to include it. And they might start a club or a reading book club or something like that. I'll say, look, do you guys bow? Or yeah, like 60 % of our classes bowing, know, bowing is constantly happening. Or, you know, we bow when we start and we bow when we end. And I said, well, make that your meditation. Well, that's not very long. I said, well, we were talking about good meditation. Nobody said long. We were just interested in good.
Andrew (24:51.587)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Watson (24:54.057)
I said, well, just consider a bit how many profoundly like, let's say spiritual to just to think of a grand word. How many profoundly spiritual bows have you witnessed or been a part of? dude, like so few. Like how many have I done and seen and been a part of zillions? But how many were like the ones in the movies, you know, the ones that we aspire to, like fully present?
you're coordinated with the breath, not losing sight of the person very mindful, very like pure, absolutely sincere, very few. If I did all those things during a bow, would it take longer? Sure, maybe a few seconds longer. So instead of a two and a half second bow, you have a four second bow. I don't think your teacher is going to complain that you know that the class rhythm is obstructed or denied. So
Andrew (25:32.472)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Andrew (25:49.592)
Yeah, yeah,
Stephen Watson (25:52.616)
you know, the challenge then is can you make the next bow maybe every bow at some point, sincere, mindful pure, can it have this crystal clarity that this is the only thing this human being is doing. And I'm fully aware of the human being or beings that I'm bowing to. Right? I'm that's profound. And then you have a meditation practice and you didn't light one candle. You know, that's great.
Andrew (26:00.398)
Mm.
Andrew (26:12.644)
Yeah.
Andrew (26:19.064)
Yeah. Yeah. And the, you know, the thing that I like about that is I think of it like, okay, in my previous school, we bowed all the time. did it, you know, at the beginning of class, we bowed to the instructor. Like we opened class with a bow and we did the same thing at the end. But every time you worked with a partner, you bowed, right? It was like, you know, acknowledging, like, I appreciate, you know, what, what you're, know, you're giving your body to me to
Stephen Watson (26:40.307)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (26:47.56)
use as a partner, like, and I liken it to, would, when I say the word hi to someone, like, you know, if I saw you on the street, Nick, Hey, Hey, how's it going? You know, that's very different from hello. How are you today? Right? It's, it's the same thing. It means the same thing. And, and I'm, almost in my head envisioning the beginning of an ending of class is hello. How are you doing today?
Stephen Watson (26:48.787)
Right.
Stephen Watson (27:07.497)
.
Nick (27:07.558)
Right.
Andrew (27:17.302)
As opposed to in the middle of class, Hey, what's going on? Like, let's practice, you know, like those two things and be separate. But I think there has to be some intent. Ahead of time, right? have to, it has to be mindful. You have to know that that's what you're doing. Nick, what are your thoughts?
Stephen Watson (27:17.5)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Watson (27:21.734)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (27:36.151)
I agree a lot of it and I mean where my thing is, I teach a lot of people with disabilities and that's a big niche for me. One of the things we do when we do anything, like I have a student right now who's autistic and I have to explain the point of everything when I introduce anybody. You know, at least because he's very new so that's something that helps.
Stephen Watson (27:56.679)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (28:02.769)
But I think meditation itself also, when you guys are talking about the purpose, there are some things that we can do. You know, we do this because our sensei did it, or we do this because we're really trying to teach a life skill because we are, we have conversations with somebody and oftentimes, and I did this when I used to teach with sales, you teach
Andrew (28:15.652)
Mmm.
Stephen Watson (28:19.718)
Mmm.
Nick (28:32.279)
I'm sorry, you're speaking to somebody and they're talking to you, but then you're thinking about what you're going to say next. Exactly. You're truthfully not really registering what they're saying. You're thinking about what you're going to say. that happens with us quite often.
Stephen Watson (28:34.585)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (28:39.992)
Yeah, your mind is not present.
Stephen Watson (28:41.537)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Andrew (28:54.276)
Sure.
Nick (28:54.577)
You know that if somebody does say something and we drill something in our heads because of a kid to ask a question that's really not appropriate. want to make sure we have that answer ready to go instead of genuinely listening and knowing what's happening. So when I introduced something and also like when I started doing this and really pushing the point was at the peak of the pandemic and I had 90 % of my students on zoom.
Stephen Watson (29:05.552)
Right.
Stephen Watson (29:25.19)
Mm.
Nick (29:25.361)
And everything going on, you know, we have our cell phones feeding us data every day at any moment. We have noise from the outside. We have everything coming at us. I talked to my students. said, when is the last time you really truthfully had a clear head? And they're like, I don't really know. I don't know. When was the last time you truthfully did it?
Andrew (29:33.23)
Yep. Yep.
Stephen Watson (29:46.277)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Watson (29:50.885)
Right, right.
Andrew (29:52.036)
Yeah.
Nick (29:55.203)
And from the martial arts perspective, when we have an attack on us, albeit a physical one or somebody uses their words or an intrusive thought comes into our minds, we have to be able to have that clear head in order to respond to it. Not necessarily in the way we drilled it. So, but like we have to be able to respond to it as our right self, you know,
So like a point on that, like when we do that meditation, we're at our clear part where we got that Zen mentality. Okay. We're focusing on it. As you guys said, we do the bow. We don't do a bow just because we're told to do about, we do about because we're sincere with intent. Yes, exactly. So when somebody throws a strike at us, it might be that same strike we learned in the dojo all the time, but if it's somebody out in the street,
Andrew (30:38.232)
with intention.
Stephen Watson (30:39.46)
Yes. Yeah.
Nick (30:52.035)
You might have an entirely different strike come at you. I mean, that's not what I learned. my gosh. And then you're thrown off. But if you're, if you're constant and practice that meditation and have it in life that when you're at that Zen focus, okay. You have a punch come at you. That's a little bit lopsided. Okay. I know what to do. It's not high block and punch it. Okay. I'll move out of the way of this one. And then you just naturally react.
Andrew (31:10.99)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Watson (31:11.277)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Watson (31:20.418)
Yeah.
Nick (31:20.593)
And that's when you're a better prepared martial artist. If somebody throws words at you, okay, that's not personal, that's them. Same as you would in an attack, a physical attack. And then as you get older and especially when you teach, when we teach, we teach people not just for kicks and punches, we teach people for multiple situations. And all that.
Andrew (31:30.82)
Mm-mm.
Andrew (31:48.59)
So, you know, we talked about meditation and how we have often seen it in a martial arts school. know, Sifu, Steven, you talked about, you know, how you can make it a little more intentional with your bows. What would be the next step? Like if, you know, I'm at a school and, you know, I've talked to my students about, you know, let's make this beginning and before, before and after class, like a little more intentional. You know, maybe we do a minute or two of, you know, silence.
Stephen Watson (31:52.257)
Okay.
Andrew (32:15.938)
before class, but what's, what's the next step? How can we take this maybe even out of the dojo into our own lives to gain benefit from it?
Stephen Watson (32:24.923)
Hmm
Well, get a teacher. Don't just figure it out yourself. Meditation is primarily a practice of the mind. The mind is very good at thinking it knows all about things, especially the mind. One of my teachers said you can't think yourself out of a you can't think your way out of a prison made of thoughts.
Andrew (32:31.78)
Sure.
Andrew (32:54.052)
Interesting. Can you say that again? Say that again.
Stephen Watson (32:56.777)
you can't think your way out of a prison made of thoughts. And as soon as you say that everybody goes, huh. And then they think that they can. And in the, in the same way people will nod and say meditation sounds good. I'll just sit quietly, hold some mudra and breathe. And that must be it. And having a teacher is, you know, not surprisingly the key to all of this stuff. It doesn't mean that you have to climb a mountain in India and
Andrew (33:05.602)
Yeah, I mean I could.
Stephen Watson (33:26.004)
give up your belongings and meditate for two hours a day with a perfect posture. As I suggested, it could be the duration of a bow. I was one of my own practices is to redefine on a daily basis the arts that I practice. And the definition that I wrote for meditation, I think yesterday, was that it's it's a conscious selection of the depth, the reach
the breadth, the steadiness, the direction and the quality of your attention.
Andrew (34:02.776)
Hmm.
Stephen Watson (34:03.707)
So to answer your question, how would we take the first baby steps is just pick one of those things, the ones I said were depth, reach, breadth, steadiness, direction and quality, and just say, let me improve the quality of my attention for, you know, three breath cycles for until the timer dings one minute. Nobody said anything about posture or mudra.
Andrew (34:20.772)
one of the things.
Stephen Watson (34:32.38)
Nobody said about an esoteric breathing methodology. Nobody said you have to face the Buddha poster in your bedroom, just maybe for a few breaths. Consciously choose the reach of your awareness. Nobody even said what that attention was on. It could be on a grand thing like world peace. And it could be just on that folded white napkin on the table that
which isn't particularly there it is, which isn't particularly sacred, but it works. Right. So that that would be my, my thought on that. Meditation is not a tuning out, it's a tuning in. So very often people think that meditation is about stopping all the clutter and the clatter and the chattering and the chaos is really just paying attention.
Andrew (35:17.88)
Mmm.
Stephen Watson (35:30.013)
you'll notice that you know, when your kids are in the house, and everybody's got their excitement and goings on. And then they all head out to you know, nobody invited you in anything. They all went off to their day. And really, like the moment they leave, you can hear the traffic outside. And the traffic was there all along, but you weren't tuned into it, you were tuned into the kids. And in the same situation, tuning into your attention internally.
Andrew (35:46.872)
Yeah. Yep.
Stephen Watson (35:59.612)
We end up not being slaves to and fighting with all the chatter. That's not the same as dissolving the chatter, or defending the chatter, or dispelling the chatter. It's really just tuning in. So it's like a proactive approach, rather than a reactive approach.
Andrew (36:20.836)
Yeah, Nick, do you, how does that feel to you?
Nick (36:27.625)
I absolutely completely agree with Steve and I want to add just one thing to it and it's what I teach my students as well as others that come along and ask me about it is to try it at different times of the day and to see what time of day works for you. If you do it, if it's best to do it, you know, for a few moments.
Stephen Watson (36:34.556)
Thank you.
Nick (36:55.057)
at the end of the day when you're lying in bed trying to think of, you know, how am going to get to sleep instead of thinking, okay, how many hours can I get to sleep tonight because they're here or using your phone or first thing in a day when you're, you know, when you're eating breakfast, for example, and also expect not to be good at it right away, you know, and there's
Stephen Watson (37:06.562)
Mm-hmm.
Stephen Watson (37:16.461)
Yeah.
Andrew (37:19.63)
Yeah, good point.
Nick (37:21.135)
There's a lot of things that people do and, know, like going back to the pandemic, you know, when it was peak pandemic, when everybody was in lockdown and we couldn't see anybody for a little while, a lot of people picked up hobbies and, like even when you have like people have new year's resolutions, another store, another day, you know, the whole right away. Cause it wasn't that good. Okay. I'm not that great at it. I'm just going to go over here. Expect not to be good. And to the point also.
Stephen Watson (37:39.098)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (37:49.272)
Mm.
Nick (37:50.885)
have a teacher or somebody to ask, not a YouTuber or someone who will, we're on YouTube right now, but not a, not, not a YouTube video, but to go to somebody and say, okay, what do you think? That's a very important part of it. You know,
Stephen Watson (38:05.726)
Yeah, the first thing that you learn in bakery school is if you keep opening the oven, right, the muffins aren't gonna cook. And in terms of meditation, wait, I'm distracted. Wait, muffins. I can smell it. What was I doing? Okay, hang on. In terms of meditation, the every time that you ask,
Nick (38:09.509)
Yeah.
Yeah, so.
Stephen Watson (38:30.942)
is this working? What are the benefits you've opened the oven? It kind of resets it and throws it. You know, so I like to think of nurturing a meditation practice the same way that you think of planting a tree. If you're planting a tree, it's for tomorrow. It's not for today. If you you plant lettuce or tomatoes, you can be reasonably sure you'll enjoy them. But if you plant a tree, it's for your grandchildren.
Andrew (38:34.723)
Yeah.
Nick (38:35.269)
Right.
Andrew (38:47.076)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Nick (38:49.969)
Right.
Stephen Watson (38:58.59)
And if you plant a meditation practice, it's not for you today. It's for you in 10 years, 20 years, five years, whatever, and your children and your family.
Andrew (39:07.224)
Yeah. So the takeaway that I'm getting from this is that meditation is a skill. Right. It's not something that people just inherently know how to do. Sitting quietly, not talking is not meditation. Now it can be, but there's more to it than that, which is why having someone to help guide you through this is good. Now the last kind of angle.
Stephen Watson (39:15.02)
Yes.
Stephen Watson (39:31.959)
Yes.
Andrew (39:36.324)
branch I want to go off in this discussion is why? Why should we as martial artists meditate? I've been teaching karate for 35 years and I don't need to meditate. you know, let's talk a little bit about the benefits of doing it, which obviously I suspect the benefits will be different for lots of different people. But if we can keep it somewhat general, let's talk about that a little bit.
Stephen Watson (40:05.88)
I everybody spends their entire life constructing a story of themselves and then selling that story to everybody they meet.
Stephen Watson (40:19.27)
meditation allows you to do the research so that you can present a nonfiction version of yourself. I can actually see who I am. Right? Then there's still the issue of do I want to lie about it and present another version? You know, I would argue less and less likely the more you meditate. But either way, I'm doing the research I'm figuring out what this is to be human.
Andrew (40:27.044)
you
Stephen Watson (40:45.686)
and what it is to be human now at this age, what it is to be human, given my circumstances today, my health today, my outlook today, my education today. So to me, it's a continual returning to the source, which is self. As much as I want to think the source is other than self, whether that's religious or spiritual or whatever it might be.
The only reality I wake up with every day is me. And the rest of it is stuff I remember. To return to me is not to remember. It's to return to return to me is not to construct or reconstruct. It's to revisit reality.
Andrew (41:24.452)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (41:33.592)
Hmm, Nick, anything to add?
Nick (41:37.009)
It's you're absolutely right. You know, it's how often do we spend time reacting to everything around us? And then we truthfully don't know who we are at the end. And just a very brief story on that, just to add to it. Like I was a sales teacher for a while and I wanted this job when I was 20. And then I woke up. I'm at my desk just doing my thing. And suddenly I'm like,
Why am I here? What do I do? And you know, what do we do? And then when we go in internally and we start to focus on this is why we should do it is we know who we are. And when we present an honest and true version of ourself, the better the universe is going to give to us with who we are. And then, know, there's the Yin and Yang version is that, you know, we're where the Yin, the Yang comes back to us.
Stephen Watson (42:09.426)
He he he he.
Stephen Watson (42:31.252)
I would I want to give you like a slight pushback on that. The more honest I am about who I am. I think you were saying that the the better the universe will give back to us or the more it will give us. I don't agree with that. Although it might be true, particularly in particular circumstances. I would say that
The universe is great and amazing and magical and mythical and impossible and how lucky to all I need for the equation is can't I give my best to it? Whether or not it gives me more or better because I gave my best I don't know and I don't care. What I care about is my contribution to it. And it can be more authentic, more sincere, more pure, more relevant.
if I'm coming from a meditative informed place.
Andrew (43:34.722)
Yeah. Okay. I get that. get that. Is there anything that we have missed out on discussing? Is there anything else we want to add before we close up?
Stephen Watson (43:45.553)
I just want to quote myself because it can't be said better. My translation or my definition of meditation is that meditation is where the illness and the medicine grow side by side in the very same garden.
Andrew (43:49.048)
you
Andrew (44:06.18)
One more time.
Stephen Watson (44:08.345)
meditation is where the illness and the medicine grow side by side in the very same garden. So it's very, it's very, it's very, it's sort of like martial arts, right? I'm learning this, this violent and dangerous thing. You know, is it going to be for good or evil, right? That's the question. And meditation is me coming in here, sharpening these skills, but these are the very same skills or the same skill.
Andrew (44:14.66)
Hmm, I like that.
Stephen Watson (44:38.52)
It's the same toolbox anyway, that can lead to downfall. So I think it's important to recognize that, you know, as maybe a bit of a caution. And that's one of the reasons having a teacher can be helpful to you know, so that there's there's not misuse where we were looking for helpful use.
Andrew (45:01.612)
Anything to add Nick at the very end here before we close out?
Nick (45:04.785)
I would say like any process, just to quote myself, because I have the opportunity now, you know, like any process, you climb the stairs, you climb the stairs one step at a time. Success is not instant. So as you start to learn it, as I said, you might not be great at it right away, but the work of the time always helps.
Stephen Watson (45:19.054)
Mmm.
Stephen Watson (45:25.784)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (45:29.014)
Awesome. And, and, start small. So I want to be able to quote myself. So, I would say start small. Those that were really paying attention to notice. just said, sorry, I just want to be able to quote myself. you know, I would say that the, you.
Stephen Watson (45:29.315)
Nice.
Stephen Watson (45:34.368)
Yes.
Nick (45:44.049)
Thank you.
Stephen Watson (45:45.72)
I like it.
And remember that Nick's fantabulous beard was grown after just one meditation session. So, there are benefits.
Nick (45:55.171)
You
Andrew (45:58.872)
That's funny. But you know, in all seriousness, this, you know, if people listening, this doesn't have to be, I want, I'm going to get into meditation. I need to find an hour a day that I can make this happen. No, start small. doesn't have to that meditation is different for everyone. And the way we do it can be different. I think, you know, even if it's just in your martial arts school, making, making it purposeful, having it have a
Stephen Watson (46:26.285)
Yes.
Andrew (46:27.108)
an intention and that intention has to be vocalized to your students. They have to know what it is you're expecting them to do. Right. And I think that's important, but start small. It doesn't have to be big. So thank you guys for joining me on this journey. I really, really appreciate it.
Stephen Watson (46:38.154)
Nice, yeah.
Andrew (46:50.784)
see who's holding his phone up. there it goes. There we go. Okay, great. Someday farm guided meditation podcast. There you go. thank you guys so much for being here. for the people listening at home, what did you think of this episode? Was this, you know, slightly different topic we haven't talked about a lot. we, you know, appreciate getting hearing from your, getting, listeners to.
Stephen Watson (46:52.39)
Holding up a QR code just in case to find them
Andrew (47:20.6)
Discuss what they liked and what they thought of the podcast. So please do so, either through our YouTube page or, on our Facebook group, which is martial arts radio. Don't forget that if you want to help support this show and everything that whistle kick does, you can go to whistlekick.com forward slash Patreon. Sorry, patreon.com forward slash whistle. Okay. Can we try that again? to help make, make sure that this show happens, each and every week, twice a week.
Stephen Watson (47:43.232)
That's it.
Andrew (47:50.372)
whistlekick.com to purchase apparel, sparring gear, training programs, books, use the code podcast15. You can save yourself a little bit of money. And whistlekickmarshallargeradio.com for every episode we've done. We're well over a thousand episodes at this point. And they're all listed there for free.
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Stephen Watson (48:32.747)
And put, start small in the comments so we know you listen this far. Start small.
Andrew (48:37.12)
good call. Good call. What's that? Quote yourself saying, that's right. So thank you so much, guys. Until next time, train hard, smile, and have a great day.