Episode 1007 - The Karate Kid Universe Retrospective
In this episode, Andrew is joined by Nick Taber and Craig Wharem. They sit down and discuss all aspects of the Karate Kid Universe. Each movie as well as Cobra Kai!
The Karate Kid Universe Retrospective - Episode 1007
SUMMARY
In this episode, Andrew, Craig and Nick delve into the Karate Kid universe, exploring the original film, its sequels, and the Cobra Kai series. They share personal connections to the films, discuss the cultural impact and life lessons portrayed, and analyze the evolution of characters and themes throughout the series. The conversation highlights the significance of mentorship, the portrayal of villains, and the authenticity of martial arts depicted in the films. The speakers discuss their personal experiences with each installment, highlighting themes of character development, nostalgia, and the cultural significance of martial arts in storytelling. They reflect on how the franchise has shifted from the original films to the modern interpretations, emphasizing the importance of relatable characters and the lessons learned through martial arts. In this conversation, the speakers delve into the character development and storytelling of the series Cobra Kai, exploring how it appeals to both long-time fans of the Karate Kid franchise and new viewers. They discuss the balance between realism and narrative, the themes of redemption and personal growth, and the cultural impact of martial arts as depicted in the show. The conversation also touches on the future of the franchise, including upcoming projects and the potential for deeper exploration of characters and themes.
TAKEAWAYS
The Karate Kid series is more than just martial arts; it's about life lessons.
Terry Silver is considered the ultimate villain in the series.
The cultural impact of the Karate Kid is significant for martial artists.
The portrayal of mentorship is central to the story.
Authenticity in martial arts is a key theme in the films.
The evolution of characters reflects real-life growth and challenges.
Nostalgia plays a big role in the appreciation of the series.
Cobra Kai revitalizes the franchise with character depth.
Cultural elements in martial arts films are significant.
The Karate Kid (2010) is a modern retelling with its own charm.
Cobra Kai explores the complexities of its characters.
Martial arts films often reflect personal growth.
The legacy of Mr. Miyagi continues through new characters.
Cobra Kai successfully appeals to both fans and newcomers.
Realism in martial arts training is sometimes sacrificed for storytelling.
The show emphasizes themes of redemption and personal growth.
Martial arts serve as a vehicle for life lessons in the series.
Future projects may expand the Karate Kid universe further.
The series has successfully brought back beloved characters from the original films.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
02:05 Cultural Impact and Life Lessons
05:01 Karate Kid II: Themes and Reflections
7:51 Karate Kid III: The Ultimate Villain
22:22 Karate Kid 3: A Mixed Bag
26:23 The Next Karate Kid: A Shift in Focus
30:30 The Karate Kid (2010): A New Generation
35:06 Cobra Kai: Reviving the Legacy
43:48 Cultural Impact and Character Development
52:35 Character Development in Cobra Kai
56:21 Realism vs. Storytelling
59:11 Themes of Redemption and Growth
01:05:43 Martial Arts and Cultural Impact
01:08:35 Future of the Franchise
Episodes referenced:
Episode 67 - The Karate Kid (Movie Profile)
Episode 130 - Sensei Fumio Demura
Episode 508 - Sensei Darryl Vidal
Episode 444 - Mr. Sean Kanan
Episode 514 - Mr. Jon Hurwitz
Episode 608 - Sensei Mark Parra
Episode 688 - Justin Ortiz
Episode 860 - Jewelianna Ramos
After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it. Don’t forget to drop them in the comment section down below!
SHOW TRANSCRIPT
Andrew (04:18.332)
Welcome you're listening and watching to the next episode of whistlekick martial arts radio. And I broke Craig and Nick before we even started. I love that. Craig and Nick are. So Craig and Nick are here to help me on this episode, which is going to be called the Karate Kid universe retrospective. So we're going to do a deep dive into all kinds of stuff. But before we get there, I just want to make sure the.
Craig Wharem (04:28.818)
Surprise, you have some gaps.
Nick (04:32.942)
you
Andrew (04:46.896)
Kind of the biggest thing we've been pushing lately, I want to make sure people know about is whistlekickmarshallartsradio.com. And there's a tab at the top that says subscribe. And that will bring you to our newsletter, Marshall Arts Radio exclusive newsletter. You'll get, first off, you'll get a free book, but you'll get emails about the episodes as they come out.
We will be releasing some behind the scenes footage. Maybe you'll get to see what I did to break Craig and Nick. You never know. But if you go there, you know, not only are you going to find the new newsletter that you can subscribe through there, you're also going to find show notes on this episode of which they will be, you know, we're going to talk about a bunch of different past whistle kick episodes and we'll mention them in the show notes there.
You can also go to whistlekick.com to find out all the stuff we do, whether it's our events, whether it's our training programs, whether it's sparring gear or merchandise, books, all of that stuff you're going to find at whistlekick.com. And if you use the code podcast one five, you'll save yourself 15 % on most everything, but not everything. There's a few select things that we don't discount through the website. And lastly, if you want to help support this podcast to help make it happen, because it's not free.
It definitely cost money just to put on and continue to push out to all of you guys for free. So if you'd be willing to help us out, it would be great. And you can do that at patreon.com forward slash whistle kick. But Nick and Craig, we'll start with you, Craig. How are you doing this afternoon?
Craig Wharem (06:23.036)
I'm wonderful, how are you?
Andrew (06:24.824)
I'm great. I'm great. I'm still still laid up at home. I still got my leg raised from my surgery, but I've got my fun dad joke shirt. This is not a whistle kick shirt, although it would be appropriate for me to wear it at whistle kick events because I tell dad jokes all the time. That's true. And Nick, how about yourself, my friend? How are you seven?
Nick (06:41.56)
That's true. I'm doing utterly fantastic today, man. As always, thank you for having me on for the... I don't know how many times I've been on here, but... Always, I always can't turn down the invite. Especially for this.
Craig Wharem (06:41.652)
That's right.
Andrew (06:53.524)
You
Andrew (06:57.806)
Awesome. Yeah, this is gonna be fun. We're gonna have lot of fun and Craig's got an extra one up up on Victor. Victor and Craig are going for the record to see who can be on the most episodes and Craig's got an extra one today.
Craig Wharem (07:10.245)
But Nick is starting to catch up, think. That's why I had to jump in.
Nick (07:12.654)
I've gotta be somewhere in the top five now.
Andrew (07:16.7)
You're certainly getting there. You're certainly getting there. so we're here today to talk about the Karate Kid universe. Now that what I mean by that is not just the movie, the Karate Kid. We're going to talk about all of the Karate Kid movies. We're going to dive a little bit into Cobra Kai as well. We're going to talk about all kinds of stuff. And this episode, the first previous episode I want to reference to is that
Whistlekick has already done a, I don't want to say retrospective, but a profile on the Karate Kid movies. Jeremy Solo by himself, episode 67, did a profile on the movie, the movie itself. But this is, we're going to go a little bit deeper. So let's start with you, Nick. Tell me briefly what your first introduction to the Karate Kid was and what it was like for you.
Nick (08:10.254)
Oh gosh, okay, so it was probably 1991 and the original Karate Kid Ralph Macchio and the poet William Zabka, that version came out locally the day I was born in 1984 in the Dollar Theater. So it always had a big connection with me and as I get older, I yearn to be Mr. Miyagi.
You know, if I get the classic cars, that's a bonus. not the terrifying backstory. But it has lived in my mind and I have defended this movie, you all of them countless amount of times. It's my favorite series ever.
Andrew (08:58.544)
And Craig, how about yourself? What was your introduction to the movie?
Craig Wharem (09:01.236)
I just want point out that I was born in 1991. So...
Andrew (09:04.986)
you
Nick (09:06.58)
Craig Wharem (09:10.74)
No, I remember watching these as a kid because I have older siblings and my brother is 14 years older than me. And when he was younger, he bore a striking resemblance to Ralph Macchio. So he was a big fan. So, you know, I think I was probably four or five the first time I saw it. And anytime I scroll by it, I tend to stop and watch it. It's just one of those movies for me that
Nick (09:24.236)
Okay.
Craig Wharem (09:40.848)
Yeah, it's kind of nostalgic. It makes me think of watching it with my brother, but it's also just a fun movie, right? I'm a big fan of just watching something I can relate to in some sense. I don't think I'm ever going to be serene enough to be a Mr. Miyagi type character, right? But I just think, I think that it's a lot of fun and I think that it connects a lot of people, right? And so, so I'm a big fan.
Andrew (09:45.722)
Mm.
Andrew (09:52.7)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (10:07.772)
So, we... 91, I was a sophomore in high school. And that's probably right around the age that I saw it, actually. I started training in high school as a freshman in high school. And the style that I started training in was Gojiru. And for those that may not know, the founder of Gojiru is a gentleman named Chojin Miyagi.
And so when I saw the karate kid, I was like, I don't remember this, but I probably thought something like, my gosh, this is like a documentary on the person that founded my Miyagi must be the same guy. You know, the karate kid, to my knowledge is never the movie. Cinema has never come out and said Gojiru is the style of karate that he was training in. But in my brain that he wants, he had to have been.
because of that connection to Chojin Miyagi and this teacher's name Miyagi. And I had another little, you know, kinship with the movie because my instructor, although wasn't of Asian descent, still bore a pretty striking resemblance to Mr. Miyagi. He was very short. He had the scraggly, shaggy white hair. And so I felt like I'm Daniel. I'm learning.
karate from not Mr. Miyagi, but I felt like it. You know, that's, where it first came in for me. were there any personal connections, Craig, that you felt from the karate you were learning or was it just that it was martial arts?
Nick (11:40.382)
Thank you.
Craig Wharem (11:51.828)
No, I don't think from the material standpoint, you can't get much different, I think, from what I was learning and from what they do on the screen. What I could relate to more than anything was just the philosophy, right? Like just the difference between the two, right? The Cobra Kai, the bad guys, and the original one, quote unquote, right? Strike hard, strike first. I definitely knew people who were training in martial arts when I started who...
from various schools, that's what they were like. And then I knew the other side, what we were always taught, kind of talk you a deescalate first, but if you need to fight, then you fight, and you fight without fear. So that piece, once I started martial arts, that's where it resonated, but from a physical standpoint, there wasn't a connection that way for me.
Andrew (12:44.476)
How about you, Nick?
Nick (12:46.414)
I related a lot to Daniel at first because of the story of him being the fish out of water. And, you know, I, lot that's going on in my life, you know, the Jersey kids suddenly in California. And when I started, I was in, I was in special needs classes and I went into the rest of the school. It was deemed not really, not fit for either, but he would be belong over here.
So I mean, that got me and when I started to train, I was very much the loner type. So it resonated with me. I don't have my school symbol around here, but that's also why my school symbol was a bonsai. It is a bonsai for that. And I think going off Craig, yes, there is a philosophy. I mean, we...
Andrew (13:31.194)
Mm. Yeah.
Nick (13:39.084)
There was a school I was in at one point where it was opposite. Everybody else was Cobra Kai. we were Miyagi-Do. But then you also had to self-check and go, could we be Cobra Kai as well in some situations? So you go back and look at it as a reference and go, maybe we need to correct ourselves here and hunkle a little bit.
Andrew (13:52.026)
Mm.
Andrew (13:59.164)
Yeah. And what's interesting is that the original Karate Kid movie was not a martial arts movie, right? It was not billed as a martial arts movie. It had martial arts in it. But I think most people would agree that the central focus of the show was not martial arts. was teaching life lessons, right? Which we as martial artists know that that actually is part of martial arts. But
Nick (14:06.968)
Yes.
Nick (14:27.118)
Yeah.
Andrew (14:28.412)
You know, it wasn't touted and it wasn't, you know, supposed to be a martial arts movie, though the martial arts in it were, I'm putting this in air quotes, accurate, authentic. mean, the, the Mr. Miyagi stunt double on the show in the movie was Fumio Demura. And if you want to hear his interview, you can go back and listen. We interviewed him years ago before he passed. It was episode 130.
And so him being Mr. Miyagi or rather Pat Morita's stunt double doing, you know, all of the martial arts stuff, like he definitely laid a foundation of authentic martial arts. And I think that certainly helped. Nick, do you have thoughts on that?
Nick (15:16.414)
I absolutely agree with you and I think if my memory is right wasn't he the the head referee at the end in tournament Okay, okay. Yeah, that was just my thought on that one. Yeah
Andrew (15:23.13)
No, that was Pat Johnson.
Andrew (15:29.116)
Yeah, we wanted to get Pat Johnson on the show, he unfortunately he passed away before we could get him on the show. Craig, do you have thoughts on the martial arts itself from the movie?
Craig Wharem (15:39.758)
No, I think for the most part, mean, we've all seen martial arts movies where it's completely over the top, even for what they were doing. Like sometimes you would expect to see maybe those old Kung Fu theater things where they're being held up by the wires and running across the street. But that's expected, right? I found the Karate Kid stuff to be not as clean as you would expect from a martial arts movie. And in that is what I liked about it, I think, is it's not...
Andrew (15:54.672)
Yep.
Craig Wharem (16:10.13)
because martial arts in and of itself, one of my teachers, teacher always says either good martial arts either looks like silk or a bad car accident, it's one or the other, right? Like it's either. So I think that one of the critiques people always say as well, his fighting stance isn't right or this, like this technique isn't what he would do. But I think that therein lies the actual relatability for a lot of martial artists in the movie.
Andrew (16:20.796)
Interesting.
Andrew (16:38.3)
Yep, yeah, absolutely. you know, to think as well that, you know, it wasn't super flashy, like the martial arts that that Mr. Miyagi was teaching to Daniel were small movement. was it was authentic. was what you would expect as opposed to a fancy quote fancy, you know, martial art, lots of jumping and kicking stuff, you know, and then the tournament.
Nick (16:39.298)
Right. Yeah.
Nick (16:55.98)
for
Andrew (17:05.781)
there were some of that, but most of the martial arts in the movie were pretty realistic. I guess that's the word I wanted to use, realistic. And, you know, since I brought up the tournament at the end, another episode you could go back and listen to would be episode 508 with Darrell Vidal. He was one of the last members in the tournament that I think Johnny ended up fighting at the end before he had to fight Daniel.
And, you know, he had a lot of really interesting things to say about the movie as well. Why don't we start to look at moving on from the first movie? And now we go into Karate Kid 2, where again, not a martial arts movie, but definitely very different from the first movie. Craig, what do you remember from the second movie? Yeah.
Nick (18:00.416)
you
Craig Wharem (18:00.52)
For those who aren't watching, I remember the drums, right? When you put the drums together and they're hitting each other's I don't remember spectacularly much from the second one. I remember Chosen was a much scarier opponent. I'm not going to say bad guy, but opponent than Johnny was. Because Johnny seemed to have that kind of like, he's kind of a rich boy from California. Chosen seemed like he was like,
a real threat. And then I just remember, I can't even tell you very many scenes from the second one that I remember other than those drums and then breaking the ice in the bar, which was a riot.
Andrew (18:44.124)
Nick.
Nick (18:46.166)
I think it, what I remember is a lot of these, it's not a martial arts movie, but I remember the love story and the things and like, I reflect more on two now that I'm older, you know, where I have a, I have a sensei right now who's not doing so well. So it's like, we're almost in the Sato role. And, you know, and at that point where it just becomes, okay, what do I do now? And I think Miyagi's internal monologue.
Andrew (19:05.628)
Mmm.
Nick (19:16.582)
which seemed to be expressed is how do I carry this on? You know, with the, okay, now I got Daniel, Daniel's doing well. And also like, remember thoughts when I first saw it is where's Daniel's mom at this point? And, do they guys like get older thinking like, where is she? Okay. Okay. You don't have to go to school. Go, go to go to Okinawa with Miyagi. That's fine. You know, but I think it's like with the fighting and know, Chosun's definitely scary. I agree with Craig.
Andrew (19:20.572)
Mm.
Nick (19:46.126)
But it's just to add on to it, like the martial arts seemed real at this point. Like when it really started to sink in, like slightly after that, you have more combat, straight fighter and other stuff. This seemed like stuff, especially for me, like I could see myself if I ever ended up in a fight, I might end up like that.
Andrew (20:11.697)
Mm.
Nick (20:12.29)
You know, and that's where I think it became like it's cemented in for me. I'm like, this, you know, this elevated the game because martial arts movies are fun, but you can tell when some, I'm sure you guys feel the same way. I could tell when it's choreographed and I couldn't tell that it was, I was obviously was, but I couldn't tell they were choreographed fights.
Andrew (20:17.948)
Hmm.
Andrew (20:34.084)
Yeah, yeah. For me, the biggest thing that I remember from the second movie was, again, remember, I'm studying Gojiru. This is Miyagi. He's going to Okinawa, where Gojiru is from. For me, I saw it as a cultural movie. Like, I learned so whether it was accurate or not at the time. But for me, I felt like I'm learning so much about Okinawan culture that I...
Nick (20:55.34)
Yeah, I know.
Andrew (21:02.044)
I loved the movie for that reason. And there was a scene where Daniel comes into the Miyagi home dojo. if memory serves, audience, if I'm wrong, tell me, I'm okay with that. If memory serves, there was a picture of Chojin Miyagi in that dojo. And so again, it's solidified for me, he's learning Gojiru and so am I, I'm like Daniel.
Nick (21:05.432)
Right.
Nick (21:29.038)
Yeah.
Andrew (21:30.26)
And I would agree wholeheartedly about Chosen that Johnny was a bully, but Chosen was a villain. He was evil. Like the second movie definitely portrayed him as that. He, know, he snuck into the, the castle at the end of the movie to fight Daniel. You know, he came swinging down on the lights, to, to, to, you know, beat up.
Nick (21:56.567)
Right.
Andrew (21:59.918)
in front of everybody. Daniel, so he definitely was a villain, kind of a bit evil. And it also solidified for me how supernatural in some ways Mr. Miyagi was. know, Sato tried for years and years and years to break this single basic tree trunk. And, you know, in the hurricane, he comes up, boom, got it. That was that was a huge, that was huge for me.
Craig Wharem (22:25.161)
Right.
Andrew (22:29.52)
So anything else before we move on to Karate Kid 3?
Craig Wharem (22:36.348)
No, I got a lot of feelings on Karate Kid 3.
Andrew (22:38.628)
All right, well, let's go there. Go ahead, Karate Kid 3, go.
Craig Wharem (22:41.46)
Terry Silver is the best part of the Cobra Kai ever. Oh, man. He's the only person in that entire, in any show, iteration, whatever movie that I wanted to fight. Like he just, he had that smirk about him. He had that really ego to, like there's the scene where he's like sitting in the bathtub talking about dumping nuclear waste into the ocean because he was cheaper to get rid of. he just in...
Nick (22:57.006)
you
Craig Wharem (23:10.196)
every deep level, it was clear he was the bad guy. Like John Kreese is a one dimensional bad guy. He's a bully teaching bullies. Sato, okay, there's a revenge, there's a peace there, there's a history between him and Miyagi. Terry Silver's just a bad dude just to be a bad dude. That and his hair and his silk geetoff were equally shiny, which was annoying. Right? But um,
Nick (23:18.862)
Right. Yeah.
Nick (23:30.094)
Hooray.
Andrew (23:37.083)
Yep. Yep.
Craig Wharem (23:39.732)
And I just loved, I feel like at any point in some sort of relationship where you have a student and a teacher or a mentor role, because I really think Daniel and Miyagi go beyond student and teacher, right? Daniel really, Mr. Miyagi was really his dad. And to Nick's point, that's kind of what Daniel's mom leaned into. Like Daniel's found this male role model who is in this male role model.
is guiding her son in such a positive way and empowering him in such a positive way that she allows it to happen. But I think what's really interesting is at some point along that way, the younger person being mentored always thinks that they know better. Right. And I appreciated that in the third iteration, because there's also, if my memory is right, it's like a year between the two. Like it's not like
between all three movies. It's not like years and years. And so I think that it's really interesting that they delve into that a little bit. think that that's just, it's a valuable thing to explore, right? But yeah, Mike Barnes, Terry Silver, Snake, yeah, beat them all up.
Andrew (24:40.473)
Yeah, yeah,
Andrew (24:57.724)
Yeah, and really quickly, Mike Barnes played by Sean Canaan, episode 444. You can go back and listen to our episode that we did with him. But Nick, your thoughts on episode three. Sorry, Karate Kid 3.
Nick (25:12.989)
Actually, I agree with a lot of what Craig is saying there. think Terry Silver to me has always been the ultimate villain. And, you know, I went to one school and then I went to another and we had a teacher who had, in the school, who had some money and always kind of reminded me of Terry Silver.
And he just, like, it seemed like to me, just from a movie standpoint, like they had to up the ante and make, you know, make the ultimate villain there. Because, you know, the first time you're like, okay, who is more evil than John Crease? Somebody who you trust, you might be a little bit broken and then turns people and makes them do something. No, you got to out the ante and say, okay, who is more evil? Somebody who has the money to do it.
Andrew (25:51.292)
Mm.
Andrew (26:09.532)
Mm.
Nick (26:09.856)
You and you're looking to go, my gosh. And, know, I kind of want to beat him up too. And then you find out like his mom has a job at a diner and then I'm like, they moved across the country to a diner job. Well, like Joe's flap shack must be really cool. And then I think the, the ending where they kind of repeated some of the hits he wins again, which was good.
Andrew (26:22.574)
you
Andrew (26:27.258)
Ha ha!
Nick (26:37.774)
Kronikin 3 is not my absolute favorite, you know, of all of them. But it's there, it's good, but it's just like it has some things to repeat it and I think when we get into the Cobra Kai series there's a little more thoughts to it, but I really think that when you start looking into the little things with Cobra Kai, where you say we have a little bit of everybody else is kind of cool.
But one thing that always stuck with me was Pat Morota's humor on this. Daniel's got his girlfriend, I don't remember who his girlfriend was at the end of show. Yeah, but... Yeah. Gotcha. So, he's got the bonsai shop and he's like, Mr. Miyagi, I want you to teach me how to sweep.
Andrew (27:20.282)
Robin Lively, played by Robin Lively.
Nick (27:34.28)
Okay, so you grab the broom and push this way and then he's like no I'm going to Cobra Kai and like he Completely overacts that line and that always got me as something funny, you know, like I'm going to this new dojo You don't know me dad, know You don't know me dad and that was just always funny. I think it wraps up well, but it's
Andrew (27:51.376)
Yeah.
Nick (28:00.254)
When you get into, I'm sure you're probably going to Hillary Swank's role now. But it just, if they stopped right here, think Cobra, think, Kronika 3 would be higher in my brain. Yeah. And I'll get into other stuff next.
Andrew (28:06.054)
We'll get there. We'll get there next. Yeah.
Andrew (28:17.34)
Hmm. So, for me, I saw Karate Kid 3 as, you know, Daniel and Miyagi's relationship kind of broke, kind of like the Banzai did, right? And they even mentioned that, you know, and that, you know, Daniel is able to fix the Banzai and it's able to grow just like his relationship with Mr. Miyagi was able to get fixed. But again, going to the martial arts in the movie,
Nick (28:39.15)
Thank
Andrew (28:47.292)
It's the first time that Kata is ever really mentioned or brought up in the Karate Kid universe. And do either of you know the Kata that Daniel does in the movie?
Craig Wharem (29:00.72)
I couldn't tell you the name of it, but I learned a piece of it once. But it was called the Karate Kit Kata when I learned it.
Andrew (29:04.601)
It is a
So it is a Gojiru kata called Seun-Chin. Yep. when he, when I saw that movie, I was testing or I just tested for Brown Belt in Gojiru and the kata I had to learn and do for my test was that form. And so when he starts doing that kata, you can't like go back and watch that. I'm sure you can go on YouTube and find it.
Nick (29:11.106)
Really?
Andrew (29:36.826)
watch that scene of him learning and doing the kata, then look up Seinun-chin and you can't say it's not that kata. It absolutely is. And so again, another example of Mr. Miyagi is clearly a descendant of Chojin Miyagi. In my brain, that's what I'm thinking. The movie universe has not said that's the case, but that's what I'm thinking. And I'm learning his style of karate. And so for me, again, it held a really
Nick (29:45.038)
Right.
Andrew (30:06.38)
really big place in my heart because of that. And I'm sure part of it is as well that I was learning the form at the same time and I got to see, you know, one of my idols, Daniel LaRusso, doing this exact form, which was pretty cool.
So let's next movie that came out would have been the next Karate Kid, which we now shift away from Daniel. And we now move to a female actor played by Hilary Swank, but it's still in the Karate Kid universe because it is still Mr. Miyagi. Nick, I know you have strong thoughts and feelings on this movie, so I'm going to throw it to you first.
Craig Wharem (30:23.166)
That is it.
Nick (30:49.582)
Okay, so it is in the Boston area, so I was really super intrigued by this. And you know, when I saw this originally, I saw this one in the theater, so I was really happy to go see it. I was right about that age. I was a few belts up. I think I might have been a blue belt at that point.
And I'm like, this is going to be awesome. This is going to be fun. And then it just degraded slowly. now there is something that's a bit of trivia again, movie nerd trivia here. and I don't want to go too deep into this, but you know, Pat Merida really did this because he needed a paycheck. You know, he, he wanted this one and he said in interviews later, he had a few beers in between, you know, his takes.
Andrew (31:34.076)
Mm.
Nick (31:42.102)
when you were when he could. And there's one line where he's supposed to deliver a very Groucho Marx type thing. Like if you imagine him with, know, with the cigar going like that. And, you know, he's, you know, and Julie is supposed to go, when are going to teach me something cool? Like breaking boards. And his line is supposed to be never break board. What board do to you? The line goes really slow, goes
Andrew (31:42.17)
Mmm.
Nick (32:10.542)
Don't break board. What's board do to you? And he staggers off the screen. Oh, you couldn't have done take two at that point. But I would say on the martial arts end of it, it is one thing that is really good is that again, it seems real. I think the villains were extremely overhyped. I mean, if you go to a school that has a security guard team.
Andrew (32:15.996)
Mmm.
Nick (32:37.518)
that, you on there, it just seemed a little unrealistic. I think Julie, right at that time, it was just before I was just, it was 95. So I was, I would have been 10, 11 years old at the time. I was just before the Anx teenage years for me. I think it was a little bit, but as I watched it later on in later years, okay, this isn't that bad. I mean, and
Andrew (32:55.675)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (33:04.59)
You said it, it's a martial arts movie, but it's not a martial arts movie. It's a story of a teenage girl who's trying to figure out her life after her parents died. And although I do think one, it does give one of the sweetest scenes for Miyagi is when he's teaching Julie how to dance. It starts doing the sweet thing because I did that.
Andrew (33:14.17)
Yeah, yeah.
Andrew (33:25.724)
Yeah, yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
Nick (33:30.926)
once for a family member of mine and then, you know, showed how to do it. I think he's doing the box walls. Uh, you know, and then doing that. I'm like, that is really sweet. And, uh, the ending line, you know, don't fight unless you need it. But if you must fight, win always stuck with me. think it just to give it positives. It's not, I think it really should have been called Miyagi and
Given the, you know, the backstory that was alluded in the first movie, his wife died in the internment camps and then he went out fighting and learned all that. mean, your headcanons sounds awesome, Andrew. So I kind of want to like, I kind of want to see that, you know, I think that's in talks right now that like Cobra Kai's ended, you know, do something like that. But I think it would have been much stronger if it just focused on the Ivy personally.
Andrew (34:12.06)
Yep.
Andrew (34:22.714)
Yeah, Craig, your introduction or your thoughts on Karate Kid 4 as it's often called, but it really was the next Karate Kid.
Craig Wharem (34:30.288)
Yeah, I think, I mean, I don't disagree with most of the stuff Nick said about the movie. That being said, I have this thing, I'm able to shut my brain off when I watch a movie and just enjoy Mr. Miyagi, right? Or just enjoy something. So, you know, I still, I don't, if I'm going to watch a Karate Kid movie, that's probably not the one I'm going to choose to put on, but if it's on, I'd watch it, right? I think to me, the best thing about that movie,
is you have Daniel in the first three who is, you could say one of his flaws is he cares too much, right? His heart is on his sleeve too much, too much he takes personally. then Mr. Maggie goes to the other side of the country and he has this kid who obviously, right, you've got Daniel and then Julie, so you've got male and then female or whatever, right? But then you also have different sides of the country and you have cares too much.
Andrew (35:11.622)
Yeah.
Craig Wharem (35:27.848)
doesn't care at all because she's been so hurt because of this tragic loss in her life. She no longer cares. And he has to find a way to inspire and connect with somebody who is not craving that connection in a way that she realizes. Daniel, it was clear, he's craving this father figure, this mentor. Julie wants the world to shut out because she's been so hurt that she doesn't want to get hurt again.
Andrew (35:31.204)
Yeah.
Andrew (35:43.452)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (35:50.104)
Exactly.
Andrew (35:57.244)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Craig Wharem (35:57.82)
And so I thought one of the things I liked about it was that there was almost a similarity in some of the ways he tried to teach her and train her. But then when those didn't work, he had to go to a completely different thing, right? If he took Daniel to a temple, Daniel would have sat there and meditated immediately, right? Like he would have instantly owned into it and understood and trusted that there was a lesson.
Andrew (36:11.674)
That's exactly what I was going to bring up. Yeah.
Craig Wharem (36:26.448)
not Julie who, you know, like there was, it just wouldn't have hit the same way. And so I think that that's, that's what I liked about it was it showed in a more intrinsic way, right? Like as a teacher, just because you taught one person one way really well does not mean that that's going to correlate anywhere else. You have to be able to delve deep. And I think that that's the thing about, to me, the next karate kid shows that Miyagi is a better teacher.
Andrew (36:26.662)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (36:56.38)
Yeah, it's interesting. I was going to say something very similar, the same vein that, you know, what he he tried to work with her the way he worked with Daniel and it didn't work and he had to pivot. And how many of us out there have had to do that same thing with a student? Right. We've all had to pivot. And, know, what works for one person doesn't work with the other. For me, the other thing that I loved about this movie was, again, the cultural stuff like
you know, going to the temple and learning about, you know, and again, I've never been to a monastery or a temple like that. I couldn't tell you if it's accurate or not, but, you know, 18 year old Andrew thinks it thought it was like, oh, that's what it's like to go to a monastery and to not eat during food and, you know, protecting all the animals, the little bug that rather than squishing the bug, you brought it outside, right? You know, things like that for me.
were awesome. And then there was Kudo in it, you the archery. So I think there's a lot of really cool things about that movie. We can overlook that it was overacted a bit. I don't think they spent as much time making it be as good as it could have been. But having said that, I still liked it. I thought it was good. So
Nick (38:17.708)
I did too, yeah.
Craig Wharem (38:18.802)
Yeah, I also I also would say I want to echo Nick. did think that having a whole security squadron of like people the age of the students at the school was weird. Like that was just a weird way to build a Cobra Kai 2.0. But I thought Michael Ironsides was great. I thought he was the best actor in the movie.
Andrew (38:37.668)
Yeah, Michael Ironsides was great, you're right. that his school, in air quotes, his martial arts school, was a bit over the top and unrealistic, which that probably took it away from me a little bit, a little bit. So the next in the quote unquote series would have been the Karate Kid.
Craig Wharem (38:48.562)
Yep. Right.
Nick (38:49.902)
Right.
Craig Wharem (38:55.026)
Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew (39:06.406)
called The Karate Kid with Jaden Smith and Jackie Chan. I will say that for me, I'll go first this time, for me when it came out I was excited, but I was prepared to be let down, partly because Pat Morita's role was iconic. And when you do a reboot or a remake,
It's just so difficult to meet those expectations. for people listening or watching, you might be wondering, why are we bothering to talk about this particular movie? Because it's not in the same universe, right? It's completely different. We will talk about it later, but there is another Karate Kid movie coming out, which will have Jackie Chan and Ralph Macchio's character, Daniel, in the movie together.
which means canonically this movie, The Karate Kid with Jaden Smith is in the karate kid universe. My biggest problem with the movie was that he wasn't learning karate. It wasn't for me, it wasn't Goju-Ryu. It wasn't any style of karate. To me, it looked like and felt like Kung Fu. And so I felt like they should have called the movie The Kung Fu Kid.
So that lost me for quite a bit. Nick, do you have any thoughts on the movie?
Nick (40:40.426)
Alright, so this particular movie is right now my top movies rotate quite a bit. This is right at the top for me. Now when it came out and was starting to get advertised, I was dead set against it. And I run another podcast movie theater time machine. If you go to the episode where we reviewed this, I go deep into the story. But
I had, we had a family friend at the time and my wife, our AC broke down in our house and he convinced us to go see this movie and he was gonna pay for it. So I was like, oh, fine. And then I went in there and drove and I'm like muttering all the way through with, you know, clutching the wheel and then got into the theater and I absolutely was taken by this whole thing.
And granted, yes, you're right. You know, if you, from a movie standpoint, you have to call it Karate Kid because there are elements you got to take over. And there are things, but I think this was an excellent modern, modern retelling of it. Because you not, you know, you have, and forgive me for saying this, but jerk teenager from New Jersey moves to jerk town from California.
versus little kid who's trying to figure out life moving to China. And there are things taken back like when he's on the plane, you have the dude I'm from Detroit that was because the producers wanted Pat Moretti to have more of an Asian accent. You know, he's a dude I'm from Detroit. And you know, there are things there. I think Mr. Han was a very strong one. And I don't want to say it's a replacement of Miyagi. He kind of goes as a different version of it.
Andrew (42:22.747)
Mm.
Nick (42:34.542)
What's just really good is that he has his own way. like, think Pat Morita as Miyagi having, you know, where his family died in an internment camp while he was fighting versus Mr. Han Jackie Chan, having his, having his family die in a car accident. He can't remember why, you know,
He can't remember what we were fighting about and doing that. I'm like that you forget that Jackie Chan can do drama and there are little things and yes, it did feel like Kung Fu and you're absolutely correct. But it at that time when I when that movie came out, I lost my dojo briefly and I was kind of swearing off. I don't think martial arts is for me anymore, but it reminded me that I still can play a part in it.
Andrew (43:06.286)
Mm. Yeah.
Nick (43:29.55)
because of the line when he says everything is kung fu. lives in how we take off the jacket, how we put on the jacket, how we treat people. And I thought, I'm like, there you know, and then like, wait, it's more than kicks and punches. It's more than this. It's the philosophy he's talking about. I started bawling right in the theater that I'm like, oh my God, he's talking the truth. My wife is turned into a friend of mine going, he's crying.
Andrew (43:42.607)
Mm. Yeah.
Nick (43:56.92)
Well, know, some mom handed me some tissues and that was really sweet. they're just like, was, I was ugly crying, like, you know, somebody is watching the Titanic. but I think this is, there's a lot more modern realism and it puts you into a point where, you know, you may not be Daniel LaRusso where we have this, but we could be Dre Parker. You know, we could be that person at some point who
You're out there going, my gosh, I don't know what I can do and going, you know what, can build a life somewhere. I think the movie is absolutely fantastic. I can talk forever about it. I love it.
Andrew (44:39.196)
And Craig, how about yourself?
Craig Wharem (44:43.718)
Yeah, so I remember when that movie came out, what was it? 2011, I think, give or take right around. OK, so I remember that movie coming out and it was the first karate kid movie I was going to see in theaters because I was too young for the other ones. So I was super excited about it. Like most people, I love Jackie Chan. I found the same thing, Andrew, where I was like, well, this isn't quite karate, right? Like it didn't it didn't necessarily bum me out because again,
Andrew (44:56.902)
Mmm.
Craig Wharem (45:12.18)
I was gonna go and see Jackie Chan do martial arts on a screen, so I was gonna be excited either way, right? You know, I never, I personally, for me, I never walk into movies with an expectation of anything other than I'm probably gonna enjoy it, right? If I go see a new Star Wars movie, given the track record, they're usually, you know, the past decade, not the best movies, but I'm gonna see spaceships blow up and lightsabers, right? So I'm gonna enjoy it either way.
Andrew (45:16.55)
Sure, sure.
Craig Wharem (45:39.91)
And so I definitely enjoyed the movie, but I remember I was so excited about this movie that I talked to the owner of our school and I said, let's do a dojo field trip. And we rented out a movie theater and a bunch of the dojo families all went and watched it together. And the instructors did demos in front of the theater for people. Like it was like a show and it just so happened the day that we rented the theater was my birthday. So like, it was just like an extra special like first viewing.
Andrew (45:53.724)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (46:07.58)
Perfect.
Nick (46:08.526)
That's so cool.
Craig Wharem (46:10.012)
Right? It was so fun. We're definitely renting a theater for the new Karate Kid movie coming out again, because it was so fun last time. But I think you're right. I would have preferred it have a different name. But I think that in the one movie, they added so much depth to Mr. Han that Mr. Miyagi got in four movies. Right? Like, think that it's, I would argue from just a movie-making perspective, it's probably
Andrew (46:24.604)
Mm.
Andrew (46:31.354)
Yeah.
Craig Wharem (46:38.856)
the strongest of them, but it doesn't live up to the other ones in the way that Pat Morita had that buy-in. And I think that Dre's mom has those funny moments where his coat's on the floor and she's, you know, pick it up, right? Like, it's funny, it added a lot of light humor to it.
Andrew (47:00.73)
Yeah, yeah,
Craig Wharem (47:02.332)
Yeah, and I enjoyed the little bit of take, right? It still ends with the jumping, flying kick through the air, but it's not the same kick, right? So yeah, I enjoyed it. being somebody who does Kenpo and Kung Fu myself, I actually probably, from a martial physical technique standpoint, relate more to that movie than to the other ones.
Andrew (47:10.396)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Andrew (47:23.578)
Hmm. Interesting. moving on, the next before we actually before we get to Cobra Kai, the next thing I want to talk about and you guys might not know this or have whatever, but I think it's fun to recognize that. I don't I couldn't tell you a year, but are either of you a fan of the TV show How I Met Your Mother?
Nick (47:48.408)
Yes.
Craig Wharem (47:49.373)
I know exactly where you're going.
Nick (47:51.264)
Yeah, me too.
Andrew (47:51.366)
So a couple seasons towards the end, Billy Zabka comes on the show and they kind of poke fun of his character from the movies and kind of they plant the seed for the Cobra Kai series.
Nick (48:16.526)
Right.
Andrew (48:16.7)
And and I could be wrong on this and again if you're listening or watching and you want to correct me Please do but I want to say I remember seeing that John Hurwitz Who was writer producer and director for the TV show Cobra Kai? He came on our show. He was episode 514 so you can listen to his episode and I'm not saying he talked about it in this episode, but I remember I seem to remember hearing that
he saw those episodes of How I Met Your Mother and really liked the concept of, you know what, maybe Daniel was the bad guy. You know, he was the one that came in and stole his girlfriend. And, you know, it leads into like when Cobra Kai first came out, the first season, which was not on Netflix, it was on YouTube. And you could only get it through YouTube Red. I remember watching that and being like,
This is not the first time I've heard this story of like, you know, Johnny wasn't the bad guy. Johnny was the good guy. Was interesting. But then Cobra Kai series season one started on YouTube Red. Craig, what was that like for you? Did you see it on YouTube when it first came out?
Craig Wharem (49:34.992)
yeah, I was living with two of my best friends at the time. And every time when it came out, that was one of the we don't really have a lot of shows anymore where you like, have to be home by Friday night at 8 p.m. to watch the show. Right. Like that doesn't exist anymore. That was one where we all agreed we're home Friday night, 8 p.m. We're all going to crack a beer and we're going to watch the show because it was me and two other people who have trained a lot. And so we're just going to watch the show and it's going to be great.
And it was like it, it early on really like, I loved it. I couldn't get enough of it. And I think the cool thing was, right? Like the Sopranos is the reason Cobra Kai exists, right? If you think about it long-term, the Sopranos was the first TV show that took a guy, Tony Soprano, who's this evil dude and made him relatable and showed you that he's a human too.
Andrew (50:30.229)
Mm. Yep. Same thing with Breaking Bad.
Craig Wharem (50:34.524)
Right, the surprise of the first one that did it and then breaking back. And then if you want to take shout out to Dennis, right, professional wrestling, Stone Cold Steve Austin's an anti-hero who you root for. All of a sudden, all these things lay the groundwork for Johnny Lawrence. And I think that it's really interesting because when you pay attention to Cobra Kai and hear his side of the events, this kid swoops in, tries to steal his girlfriend, you know.
Nick (50:35.799)
Yeah.
Andrew (50:37.627)
Yeah, yeah.
Craig Wharem (51:02.004)
all of sudden with six months of training dethrones him and does everything he like. It makes sense. His perspective also makes sense. And I think that that's I think that it was fun. I Billy Zabka carries that show right like his acting is it carries the show. And I like that they made every sensei every teacher relatable because none of them are Miyagi.
Andrew (51:10.406)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Andrew (51:29.722)
Yep, yep.
Craig Wharem (51:31.014)
Everyone strives to be Miyagi, but all of us fall short. And I think that that's the best thing for me from a martial arts perspective in this is that I no longer feel like I have to live up to Miyagi, right? It's okay to have this other side and to be a human too. So yeah, I love that show.
Andrew (51:52.802)
Nick, first season.
Nick (51:54.714)
first season. I held off on this for years for a while because I was so diehard with the originals. Now, as I said, with the the Jaden Smith version, I was really begrudgingly got into it. So it was my students at the time when I was going when we were in the pandemic peak of pandemic who said Sensei, you
Andrew (52:00.208)
Really?
Nick (52:23.446)
need to see this. And then said, you know, and one of my students at the time, Brian, who all but basically said, he's like, I'm not showing up unless you tell me you watch it. You know, like, he, you know, he did, you know, he was fine, but he's like, he's like, come on, sir, come on, like you've got to. And you know, like, okay. And I'm like, you know what? It's, I'm going to enjoy some good acting. I'm like the poet Billy Zapka is here.
Andrew (52:25.254)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (52:50.456)
there's a reason why I said the poet Williams Abga because I love that storyline and how I met your mother. Absolutely love that. you know, and then I said, all right, let's go with an open mind and see it. And I just got it hooked right in. And one of the things that I, it really led me to talk about things with my wife about it and, you know, things like.
Andrew (52:56.105)
you
Nick (53:13.154)
When they go into, you know, Daniel's regrets of leaving Miyagi and going to Cobra Kai to echo Craig as well. It also led for me because I started talking, you know, to my old sensei, Gifford about it. We hadn't spoken in a number of years and, you know, it led us to talk again. And then also led me to believe as I started growing with students again and teaching and doing crafting the new version of
you know, my version of my art, Chasse-en-Dos, which was created by Sensei Gifford and then passed to me that I didn't need to do his version of it. You know, I needed to be me and I needed to be my own sensei and that really woke me up. You know, and you know, there's beautiful homages and you can tell John Hertz and others who were
Andrew (53:55.216)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (54:11.724)
really big fans clearly did it right. But I also know that since Jayden Smith aged out, this spawned Cobra Kai to come in. You know, aged out because they were going to do Karate Kid, the next Karate Kid 2, and then do other versions of that. But like, where would they take that story? And I think also what it shows
Andrew (54:24.282)
Yeah, yeah.
Andrew (54:30.3)
Mm.
Nick (54:39.37)
is as martial arts goes, know, everybody can have a second chance. know, with Johnny Lawrence still living, I mean, the very first scene that you see him, know, and they see that, you see the kick to the jaw, you know, that again shows, yes, that was an illegal kick, LaRusso got it. But showing his perspective, they're like, all right.
Andrew (54:47.332)
Yeah.
Nick (55:08.27)
It, know, and just because something is the way it is, you know, the original movies does not mean it can grow from that, you it can't grow from that. You know what mean? So when you say that, they say, all right, then translate to myself as a teacher, just because Chawson Doe had these elements here, you know, back in the nineties and two thousands. And then when I started teaching, does not mean I cannot.
Andrew (55:18.448)
Yeah.
Nick (55:37.934)
I cannot change, you know, or I could do other things.
Andrew (55:39.578)
Yeah, yeah. So for me, season one came out on YouTube. I'm sure like so many other people, I signed up for YouTube Red just for the free trial for the month, watched all of Cobra Kai and then didn't renew my subscription like so many other people. But I to this day stand behind, I think season one of Cobra Kai is
some of the best television ever produced. In terms of character development and in terms of acting, it was phenomenal. And I don't want to go through season, I don't want to go through Cobra Kai talking about every single season. Like, well, we're talking about season one here for a second, but then we'll be just a little more general. But I think it did such an amazing job of portraying each character as having their own.
Nick (56:10.253)
Agreed.
Andrew (56:35.526)
flaws and their own characteristics and being a well fleshed out character in a way that most shows can't do, which I think is pretty amazing. As we progress through Cobra Kai, the series, the different seasons, I loved all of the, I loved the fact that you could be a huge
fan of the Karate Kid universe and have all of these extra little things that you that you got, but that you didn't have to. You could be a brand new person that has never seen a Karate Kid movie, watched the series and say, this was really good. Now, those of us that knew the other movies, we got more out of it. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't enjoyable for other people. I think the
John Hurwitz and the others did an amazing job of that. That you could be a non viewer of anything else and just watch season one and enjoy it and be able to follow what was going on, which I think was pretty, pretty impressive. As the seasons, as the series went on, you know, they obviously they brought in other characters from the other movies. You know, season one was just
the first karate kid and I think season two as well. Season three, they go to Okinawa, now Chosen is involved, he comes back. The female lead whose name eludes me from the second movie, but she's in it. Yeah, Komiko, I was trying to think of her actress's name, but she comes in.
Craig Wharem (58:14.984)
Kuniko.
Nick (58:16.728)
Thank you.
Andrew (58:25.884)
Sean Canaan comes in and comes back as his character, Mike Barnes, the bad boy of karate. I Terry Silver, John Creighton, like all these people come back, which is awesome. But it started to, for me personally, as the seasons went on, I didn't enjoy them as much. Now, don't get me wrong. I've seen every episode. As soon as they got released, probably, they were always released on a Friday, I think.
I had seen all 10 episodes by Sunday. Like I binged them as quickly as I could. I loved the series, but it just so much of it for me became unbelievable. You know, why did the police not get involved when all of this stuff happened? And, you know, one of the things that as a martial artist is talked about a lot is how long it takes to get a black belt. And, you know, I'm not here to debate that, but most people
would raise an eyebrow at getting a black belt in six months. Not to say it can't be done, but most people would raise an eyebrow at that. And one of the things I loved about the original Karate Kid movie is when Daniel shows up for the tournament, Mr. Miyagi steals a black belt to give to him. So because he's not a black belt, he's not, he's just been training with him for a little while and
in the Cobra Kai series, that doesn't happen. There are students who will have a white belt one week and then like two episodes later be wearing a black belt. it just struck the realism of that was like, they progressed in ability a lot faster than makes sense. And so that started to lose it for me a little bit. Craig, do you have any thoughts on the few, like not season one, but as the series went on.
Craig Wharem (01:00:21.928)
Yeah, I to me, the kids had their own stories and things like that. But they were to me, they were the vehicle to focus on Johnny and Daniel. So I didn't really pay attention to a lot of that. Like, they all of a they were in black belts. I just assumed that that was a tongue in cheek. Daniel had trained for, you know, only a few months. All of a sudden, Daniel was a black. Like, it just seemed to me like it fit into what was already established.
Andrew (01:00:45.02)
Okay.
Craig Wharem (01:00:49.49)
So like that part didn't bother me as much or I guess the protocol and the procedure from martial arts perspective didn't. But I found that in every season I just would pay attention to as the realism went down, the character growth and understanding that Johnny had in a deeper level went up. And so like I was just solely focused on that redemption of him and I wasn't focused on many other things, but
I will tell you, I'm pretty sure I watched season four, five, and six by myself, because my wife was like, how many more reasons can they find to cripple a kid on a stairwell? Like how many, like, she, you know, she would just say, she's like, all right, at some point, they're just trying to find reasons to fight each other. And for me, how many times have not maybe not physical conflict, but how many times have I seen in social circles conflict?
Nick (01:01:31.502)
you
Craig Wharem (01:01:47.058)
become manufactured because of a misunderstanding. And then when it breaks, and then when that relationship breaks for that reason, how many times have I watched people put it together, but very fragilely, and it breaks again because of another misunderstanding. Like it's just a common human social trait, I feel like. And so I pretty much watched that show locked into...
Andrew (01:01:50.458)
Mm.
Craig Wharem (01:02:12.028)
what ridiculous marketing tactic was Johnny Lawrence gonna do, right? Like what silly things was he gonna say that you just aren't supposed to say? And then B, what about his character growth and him coming back from, you know, just becoming, manifesting himself as this loser that he never really was, but he just allowed himself to become because he couldn't get over a loss, right? And so,
That for me that that was the overarching theme of the show and everything else was just like and just like we say in martial arts the physical skill is the vehicle to teach the life skill. It's not about punching and kicking it's about everything else. And so when I watched the show that's how I approach it with my head is I want to see these these people overcome the other side of this not the punch and kicking. Yeah that's cool. That's window dressing. That's that's the fun part. Right. But yeah yeah for me.
Nick (01:02:52.568)
Mm-hmm.
Craig Wharem (01:03:11.366)
I don't know, and I just finished season six not long ago, so I'm super high up on it right now, right? Like I'm super infatuated with it. But I don't know very many other shows that I rushed to binge watch, right? Like I need to watch every single episode in a row, because I just want to know what's going to happen next. I don't know many other shows in my life that I've been that way for.
Andrew (01:03:31.42)
Mm-hmm.
Andrew (01:03:36.218)
Yep. Nick, before we go to you, Craig, I will say I completely agree the wanting to what's next, what's next, what's next. You because you already mentioned it earlier. I will tell you the first show that I had that feeling with was The Sopranos. Just coincidentally that I would get done one episode and have to see what happened next. But anyway, Nick, your thoughts on later. Nick, your thoughts.
Craig Wharem (01:03:53.161)
Yes.
Craig Wharem (01:03:57.138)
What's Pauli Walnut's gonna say now?
Nick (01:04:04.878)
Man I Cobra Kai I just absolutely enjoyed yeah, you're right there there's realism that just is a little off and you know, I you know, we're some things like a Couple of the jokes that stick out that I really like, you know Daniel's trying to do Miyagi dough and teach for free and he has kids show up and they're like, okay, yeah start your pay my fence I knew you just wanted free labor. I'm going over to Cobra Kai like I like that was a really funny break and
You know, and then I think the kids, I agree with Craig that the vehicle is really, it's Johnny Lawrence getting better, which we all need that time that we get better. And that's really good. However, I think the kids bring a very fresh perspective because when I, you know, as I said before, Karate Kid 1 came out the day I was born in a cheap theater around here.
So that's always solidified here. But when I started getting into martial arts, it was Ninja Turtles. You know, that kind of brought the vehicle in, but it's like these things, even though they're not realistic to a degree, like Ali Mills coming in and trying to settle a 30 year old feud, or like when are you going to have a, you know, your ex-girlfriend from high school settle an argument when you're all in your 50s now? You know, like,
Andrew (01:05:05.468)
Yeah
Andrew (01:05:26.372)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Nick (01:05:27.842)
That's definitely, you know, that's, that's turning a fan service to us, you know, the, the, the nerds who, who know it. But the thing is, is, know, and the echo and Craig karate is not just kicks and punches. It's everything else as well. So it leads to the conversation and it leads to things like Daniel and his new students. He's explaining his regrets that he left Miyagi and went to Cobra Cop, but then had to deal with that.
Andrew (01:05:34.746)
Yep, yep.
Andrew (01:05:44.124)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (01:05:56.638)
So, and we've all had stuff in our past that have affected our future decisions in the negative way, but then, you know, turning and spinning new lessons a different way in order to help. But I think also where we've, and I, I'm not speaking for you guys, but I know for myself, and I know others who have done it where we've unfortunately held grudges and it's prevented growth. And it also goes internal and overall it's a great show.
I lost a ton of sleep when, um, I think it was the third or fourth season came out. And you know, I'm got work at eight o'clock in the morning. I checked my phone. Oh shoot. It's four. You know, like now what do I gotta do? Like, okay, I've got to stop at Dunkin' get coffee before I go in because I'm going to need it. You know, like why do you need that? Cobra Kai was so cool. Have you seen this?
Andrew (01:06:49.936)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nick (01:06:54.51)
You know, and, um, but it did lead to those things. also, um, Daniel is. And Craig gave me something I didn't even think about was, um, you know, like going from Daniel to Julie Miyagi had to change his way as much as we do. Daniel has to change his way where he's like, I won the championship in 1987 and all the kids just go, so.
Andrew (01:07:12.828)
you
Nick (01:07:23.458)
You know, like so what? And then, know, like you can't hold on to those past grudges, show what's going on and then actually take the time and mentor. They're not going to come to you just because you put a shingle on your, on your house. They're going to come to you because you have that way about you. And then, you know, then Johnny comes in and grows. mean, it's absolutely hands down fabulous. Every, every single thing about it. And even where like my wife said something once that
Andrew (01:07:23.717)
Yeah.
Nick (01:07:53.806)
I think it was the end of the fourth season where they go to the big tournament, they're a combined school and the character of Tori rises up and they lose. You know, they lose. You find out Terry Silver's paying off, but they don't get the glory. And you know, I recently did an episode with you guys, like how many times have we gone to a tournament? You don't get the, you don't get the gold.
Andrew (01:08:06.896)
Mm-hmm.
Nick (01:08:20.962)
You know, but then they have to repair, they have to deal with that, they have to figure out what they can do. Those are the elements and those are things I'm like, I wish I had that. Yeah, granted Ninja Turtles was really cool, but I wish I had that to fall back on and show that art to say, okay, yeah, I can deal with that when I was an underbelly. You know, that's for me. I mean, it is still absolutely fabulous show.
Andrew (01:08:43.035)
Yeah.
Andrew (01:08:47.68)
Absolutely. And the martial arts in it are pretty good. when I couldn't tell you what season, but the season where they're training in the backyard of Daniel's house and Mary Mauser's character, his daughter, who, by the way, we tried very hard to get on the show. Jeremy and I actually talked to her personally, directly, her and her agent at Rhode Island Comic-Con a number of years ago. We...
had on the show, Mark Para, who I didn't look up his episode, but number, but Mark Para is a martial artist from California that Mary Mouser trained under to get ready for Cobra Kai. And so we talked to Mary Mouser about getting her on the show and it didn't work out schedule wise. We couldn't make it happen. And now she's got new talent agency that we haven't been able to get in touch with. regardless.
That scene where they're training in the backyard and she and someone else I can't remember were on the wooden platform in the water and they're doing kata and they're doing a very, very well-known Okinawan slash Japanese kata. In Okinawa it would be kushanku or kusanku in Japan. It's kankudai with the opening scene. Again, if you know that form,
that's obviously the form they're doing. And so, you know, they definitely had some some good consultants on the movie. And I'm curious, we there are two that we haven't talked about yet cast members from the Cobra Kai series that we have had on the show. And I'm wondering if you guys can guess who it would be. I will tell you, it's not Daryl Vidal because he was in Cobra Kai the last season.
He was the head referee for the Sekai Taikai, which was cool to see him come back as his character. Obviously, Sean Canaan was we had him on the show. He was in Cobra Kai. There are two actors that were in the last season, and I'm wondering if either of you guys can guess who it might be.
Craig Wharem (01:11:03.528)
Well first let me tell you that Mark Power was episode 608.
Andrew (01:11:08.624)
There go. Mark Perra, episode 608. He wasn't directly involved with Cobra Kai or Karate Kid, but he helped train Mary Mouser to get ready. But thank you, Craig.
Craig Wharem (01:11:18.772)
You're welcome. And I'm not sure. I don't remember. There's just been over thousand episodes and I've been in like 700 of them. So it's one of the 300 that I haven't been in.
Andrew (01:11:21.391)
Any
Andrew (01:11:27.068)
You
Nick (01:11:29.918)
I would say outside of the 450 I bet I know
Andrew (01:11:31.546)
Okay, so.
Andrew (01:11:37.02)
So the other two actors that we've had on the show, episode 688 is Justin Ortiz and his wife came on episode 860, Juliana Ramos, who is also, they're married. They were the Spanish team. They were the leaders. I believe they wore yellow in the Sakai Taikai. And so they were actors hired to play on that team.
Craig Wharem (01:12:01.79)
Gotcha.
Andrew (01:12:06.526)
so we can say that we have had two actors from Cobra Kai on our show as well. So that's pretty cool. anything else about Cobra Kai, the series? Actually, I'll add one thing. The other thing that Cobra Kai does really well, and Craig, think you'll appreciate this. You may not have thought of it, but I think you'll appreciate it is it's a great vehicle to show that your school will create a culture.
Nick (01:12:13.934)
So...
Andrew (01:12:35.438)
And every school has a culture and that even if you don't want your school to have a culture, it will. And your students will become that culture. And I think Cobra Kai as a series really shows that really well.
Craig Wharem (01:12:50.072)
Yeah, first of all, you're right. I do appreciate that. And I think, yeah, and I think that just to tie that in, you have to pay attention completely to the whole picture of your culture. Right? When this when the students were served the best was when Johnny Chosen and Daniel were teaching together. When there were three senseis is when they were at their best because there were three different perspectives.
Andrew (01:13:11.036)
Mm-hmm.
Craig Wharem (01:13:15.346)
you weren't locked into one specific ideology. I'm not saying that every school needs three senseis. What I'm saying is one sensei needs to have the mindset of three.
Nick (01:13:15.566)
Agree.
Nick (01:13:25.9)
Agreed. Yeah. When there's three, they got to flex their style.
Andrew (01:13:28.636)
So, lastly,
Nick (01:13:34.902)
I would know it says piggybacking off Craig.
Andrew (01:13:39.758)
Lastly, let's get into the new movie that's coming out. So now we're leaving the retrospective a little bit because we're going to be talking about the future. You know, there isn't a whole lot that we know about the new movie coming out other than it involves Jackie Chan's character and Ralph Macchio's character together in the movie. And so I'm looking forward to seeing what they're going to do with it.
Craig Wharem (01:14:08.052)
Me too. saw a graphic too. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but that they have like five or six other projects in the works to build off of Cobra Kai outside of this movie. Yeah, I mean, spoiler alert, I guess we've been talking about Cobra Kai for a little bit now, so if you've not seen it all and don't want me to ruin it, stop listening for 30 seconds. But they're supposed to be, from what I saw, a spinoff of
Nick (01:14:19.448)
Seriously, I didn't know that. Wow.
Craig Wharem (01:14:38.0)
Sam and Miguel in Okinawa or Tori and Robbie Keane doing what they're doing. Like there's supposed to be spinoffs, but I'm super excited to see where the movie takes Mr. Han and Daniel and hopefully continue to give Daniel this idea and look back into Miyagi because it seems as though Mr. Han was a contemporary of.
And so it should be interesting to see how they connected. I'm assuming that that's why the series brought in the Sekai Taki, right? That Mr. Han was somehow involved in that in some way, whether as a fighter or he just knew of it. I'm assuming that that's how it's going to be brought together. But I'm super excited. And it's like a couple of months away.
I did have a student send in all their info to try and be in the movie and unfortunately they didn't make it. But they did like send in all their demo reels and everything like they were ready to go. I was super excited for them and it didn't pan out. So.
Andrew (01:15:39.792)
That's cool. Nick, any thoughts on the new movie?
Nick (01:15:42.83)
I'm just really going to look forward to it and go as a big fan. Honestly, you know, every single thing has been great. Um, I am not real. I'm just really going to go with a big open mind. I think, I hope what happens is it does become a vehicle to do more things and you know, to do more things, but also like to get into things like I know.
Andrew (01:15:46.096)
Yeah.
Nick (01:16:11.614)
As I understand, like one of the things there, Josh Hurd and Hurwitz and others are looking at doing Miyagi's backstory, even if it's just a short one season. I think that would be a very good thing and explore more and more. I think Ralph Macchio said in an interview, I'm paraphrasing a bit, that, what was it?
the this story is over but the universe is ever expanding you know of everything so I think and that seems to be the way things are going you know with people who are you know you have great tv shows where stars have podcasts where they're re-watching their old work and stuff like that so I think it should be something even if they end up doing a podcast together and you know doing something like that I don't know
Andrew (01:16:43.76)
Mm.
Nick (01:17:06.2)
But I just hope that it keeps expanding more and the conversation keeps coming.
Andrew (01:17:12.432)
Yeah, excellent. Well, thanks so much for being here, guys. I definitely want to say for both of you guys, you're the best around. sorry. Sorry about that. That's right. For those watching, you can see the picture that Craig has behind him there. Thanks so much for being here. Yeah, it's awesome. Had I been thinking of it, I would have worn my All Valley t-shirt. I didn't think of it. That's OK.
Craig Wharem (01:17:29.33)
my autographed photo from the All Valor.
Andrew (01:17:41.436)
One last thing we're gonna wrap up here, we're gonna leave, but I was thinking of this as we're talking about it. if you, the listener, go to WhiskLikeMarshallArchRadio.com, go to subscribe, subscribe to our newsletter. I'm gonna set this up and I'm gonna make, I'm making a note as I talk here that it's currently the middle to end of March.
as this episode is released. So much to say April, May, June. I'm going to put down June, early June. I'm going to release something to our subscriber list. People that subscribe, I'm going to send a video, a movie out. And the reason I'm doing it in early June is I want you listener. I want to give you a chance to listen to this episode. Go to whistlekickmarshalltradeo.com, hit the subscribe button, and I'm going to send you
video sometime early June and I'm gonna tell you what it is. Years ago, yeah Craig knows because he's seen it, Nick doesn't know. So years ago I and some friends got involved in a film festival and it was it was very simple concept. You show up on you're given a list of classic 80s movies and you show up on a Friday
Craig Wharem (01:18:44.242)
I know what it is.
It's awesome. You need to subscribe because I've seen it.
Andrew (01:19:08.556)
and you tell them what the movie you tell the people running the competition what movie you're going to remake and you are randomly you randomly draw the genre that you have to remake that movie in. So as an example some of the movies on the list were Back to the Future, Driving Miss Daisy, obviously The Karate Kid was on there, I think Terminator was on there, are all this big list of classic 80s movies.
And you will be randomly selecting a genre. Could be Western, could be musical, could be talk show. So you could have, you know, we chose, my team obviously chose the Karate Kid, the movie. And the genre that we selected randomly was documentary. So we had exactly, this was on a Friday, we had exactly one week to create a seven,
Nick (01:19:53.761)
Yeah, yeah.
Andrew (01:20:07.27)
to 15 minute movie that would be our movie, The Karate Kid, as a documentary. And we did it. And I'm going to in early June send out via email. If you're on our email list, you will get a copy of that movie that we did for the film festival. Now, we didn't win, but we didn't win overall. But we did win for best use of genre.
So we took the genre we were given randomly, documentary, and we did such an amazing job of making it a documentary. And I'm not going to spoil anything, but I will say that this was long before Cobra Kai came out. And there are a lot of interesting similarities between what we chose to do as documentary and Cobra Kai. So early June, look in your email for an email from Whistlekick.
on that list and I will send out the full movie. It was pretty cool. So anything else to close out, guys?
Craig Wharem (01:21:13.188)
It's super cool, I'm telling you. I've seen it.
Craig Wharem (01:21:19.134)
I got enough.
Nick (01:21:20.27)
Yeah, I would really say go see all the Karate Kid movies and especially for any martial artist of any age. All this is absolutely wonderful. So please jump on in for any of it. And if you have any questions, talk to us.
Andrew (01:21:20.623)
It's pretty cool.
Craig Wharem (01:21:36.996)
Or if you're in the New England area, want to come watch it with me and my students when the new movie comes out, just email me craigowistlekick.com and you can come watch it with us.
Andrew (01:21:38.489)
Awesome. All right.
Nick (01:21:41.646)
Yeah.
Andrew (01:21:47.63)
Craig, I'm there for sure, for sure. All right, so let's try and do this. Let's try and do this. Nick, you go first. I'll go second. And Craig, you're going to go last. Let's see if we can get it. Ready? No rehearsal. Nick, me, Craig. Ready? Until next time.
Craig Wharem (01:21:50.164)
Done.
Nick (01:21:52.162)
Yeah, I will make plans to.
Craig Wharem (01:22:02.569)
Gotcha.
Nick (01:22:07.758)
Straight hard.
Andrew (01:22:10.172)
Smile.
Craig Wharem (01:22:12.325)
and have a great day. Wax on.