Episode 1006 - Aubrey Koontz
In this episode, Jeremy sits down and talk with stunt woman Aubrey Koontz about her martial arts career and transitioning to stunt work.
Aubrey Koontz - Episode 1006
SUMMARY
In this episode of Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, host Jeremy Lesniak speaks with Aubrey Koontz about her unique journey from martial arts to stunt work. They discuss the challenges and nuances of transitioning from traditional martial arts to the world of stunts, including the importance of trust, the art of choreography, and the mental blocks that can arise during training. Aubrey shares her experiences, insights, and the skills she has developed along the way, providing a comprehensive look at the intersection of martial arts and stunt performance. In this conversation, Aubrey Koontz discusses the intricate relationship between stunt work and martial arts, emphasizing the importance of adapting techniques to individual strengths and the necessity of foundational skills. She shares insights on the evolution of her training, the balance between pursuing a career in stunts and maintaining job stability, and the critical role of recovery and injury prevention. The dialogue also touches on the creative aspects of choreography and the value of self-reflection through filming one's practice. Aubrey concludes with advice for aspiring performers, highlighting the significance of recognizing and utilizing personal strengths.
TAKEAWAYS
Aubrey's journey into martial arts began with a DVD at Walmart.
She attended a martial arts event with no prior connections.
Transitioning from martial arts to stunts requires learning new techniques.
Stunt work emphasizes safety and trust among team members.
Understanding camera angles is crucial in stunt choreography.
Aubrey's martial arts background helped her in stunt training.
Mental blocks can hinder performance in stunts.
Building trust is essential for effective stunt work.
Learning to pull punches is important for safety in stunts.
Aubrey has improved her skills through consistent practice and training.
Stunt performers often have a limited career span due to physical demands.
Adapting techniques to individual strengths is crucial in martial arts and stunts.
Basic skills in hand-to-hand combat and tactical work are essential for all stunt performers.
Recovery and injury prevention are vital for longevity in stunt work.
Filming practice sessions can provide valuable insights into personal growth and technique improvement.
Creativity plays a significant role in both stunt choreography and martial arts performance.
Maintaining a stable career while pursuing stunts can provide necessary security.
Understanding one's body and capabilities is key to effective self-defense.
The interplay between martial arts and stunt work can enhance performance in both areas.
Community engagement and sharing experiences can enrich the learning process.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
02:00 Aubrey's Unique Journey into Martial Arts
04:54 Transitioning from Martial Arts to Stunt Work
08:00 The Art of Stunt Choreography
10:58 Understanding the Stunt Hierarchy
13:54 Aubrey's Martial Arts Background
17:08 The Challenges of Stunt Training
20:01 Building Trust in Stunt Work
22:48 Overcoming Mental Blocks in Stunts
25:56 The Evolution of Skills in Stunt Work
32:23 The Evolution of Stunt Work and Martial Arts
36:08 Training Philosophy: Strengths and Basics in Stunts
40:32 The Interplay Between Martial Arts and Stunt Work
41:41 Balancing Stunt Work with Career Stability
44:43 Recovery and Injury Prevention in Stunts
48:13 Personal Insights and Community Engagement
50:55 The Role of Creativity in Stunts and Martial Arts
59:09 Final Thoughts and Advice for Aspiring Performers
To connect with Aubrey:
Instagram: AubreyKoontz.4
Instagram: Roninstuntcompany
This episode is sponsored by Kataaro. Please check out their site at www.kataaro.com and use the code WK10 to save 10% off your first order. And be sure to ask them about a wholesale account for school owners!
All orders for Autism Awareness belts in March and April will see 50% of the PROFITS donated to the International Society for Autism Research!
After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it.
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Show Transcript
Jeremy Lesniak (01:14.127)
What's happening everybody? Welcome. It's another episode of whistle kick martial arts radio today. I'm joined by Aubrey Koontz. Aubrey, thank you for being here We're gonna chat where this is gonna be fun because you come at this stuff that we're doing here in a different way And I've had a chance to see you live doing it live and I'm excited but for the audience Thank you for being here a couple things I want you to keep in mind one if you're brand new Don't hit the desk while you're recording. But beyond that I want you to whistle kick martial arts radio comm
Aubrey Koontz (01:32.558)
True.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:43.427)
and sign up for the newsletter. Why? Because we've rolled out a new newsletter, a newsletter. And what's it gonna do? We're gonna email you on the day episodes are released. We're gonna give you behind the scenes material. We're gonna give you other great stuff. And how do you do it? Whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. Hit the little subscribe button. Now this episode, like many of them is sponsored by Kataro. Shout out and thank you to Kataro, K-A-T-A-A-R-O.com.
They're doing something pretty cool right now for March and April, autism awareness. They've got this great special belt and that belt, if you buy it during this time, they're gonna donate half of the profits to, I'm gonna get the organization rights over here in my notes, International Society for Autism Research. just, know, Qatar does such great stuff for the industry, for us, for all of you. And here's another example of them being awesome. And speaking of awesome,
Aubrey's pretty awesome. And you're here, and I'm excited. Thanks for being here.
Aubrey Koontz (02:43.202)
Good.
Aubrey Koontz (02:46.84)
Hey, thanks for having me. I'm excited.
Jeremy Lesniak (02:49.256)
I forgot WK10 code for Kotaro saves you 10%. Okay, now I can.
Aubrey Koontz (02:54.904)
Gotta get that.
Jeremy Lesniak (02:56.122)
You'd think I've been doing this a while or something.
Aubrey Koontz (02:58.702)
Bye.
Jeremy Lesniak (03:00.155)
you know, once in a while. We met at free training day Midwest. I had no idea who you are.
Aubrey Koontz (03:06.68)
We did.
Aubrey Koontz (03:11.064)
class.
Jeremy Lesniak (03:11.533)
If I remember correctly, you had no connection to anyone there.
Aubrey Koontz (03:15.01)
Nope. Well, ish. I had met one of the presenters before, but I don't even know if that's how I found out about it. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (03:16.353)
You were one of the... Did you? Ish?
Jeremy Lesniak (03:23.131)
Jeff? Did you meet Jeff? Okay, so yeah, so you knew Jeff. Jeff's been on the show, Jeff Goodrum. And you did something that very few people do. And I'm bringing this up because I think this says a lot about you and your personality. You attended a martial arts event where you had virtually no direct connection or expectation or understanding. You just went, this sounds cool, I'm going to show up.
Aubrey Koontz (03:52.107)
yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (03:52.283)
And the reason I know that that's special is because we've done, I think we're at like 15 free training days and there are very few people who have done.
Aubrey Koontz (04:03.47)
I'm in heaven.
Jeremy Lesniak (04:03.579)
Why did you do that? What prompted you to just, oh, here's a martial arts man. I'm gonna show up.
Aubrey Koontz (04:09.134)
thought it sounded really cool. I tried to get other people to come with me and it just didn't work out. But now that they know about it for next time, I had to report back, of course. And hopefully we'll have some more people from my little realm of community joining next time, especially if we end up presenting there. But I don't know, I don't get to train in the same type of way that I did kind of growing up.
Jeremy Lesniak (04:28.538)
Mmm.
Aubrey Koontz (04:37.742)
And so knowing like, oh, hey, other martial artists, martial artists were kind of weird. Let's, let's be honest. We're a little goofy. So I was like, oh, a local thing. There's other people going to be there. It's, you know, very minimal commitment. come try a lot of things, learn from a lot of different people. I just thought it sounded awesome. I was like, I mean, it's what is it going to hurt? It's one day. I thought it was awesome. I liked it a lot.
Jeremy Lesniak (04:45.935)
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:02.681)
Was it awesome?
Yeah, yeah, that was pretty awesome. So.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:11.643)
You touched on the fact that you had other people you tried to get to come in and this is kind I I think this is part of your personality. This is why we're starting here I think it says something about you and that's where I want to want to go first You tried to get other people to go so you had made this commitment You were going to go they weren't walking into an environment where they would know no one because they would know you But they were still reluctant to come in What was it that they told you about their
hesitation, their unwillingness.
Aubrey Koontz (05:45.464)
That's the thing, they don't tell you anything. You present, you're like, hey guys, I'm going to this, I'm going to this and you get left on read. Or maybe you get a liked message or, that sounds cool, I might be there and just don't. Which part of my group, we would have been skipping our self-defense class to go to that, which we might end up, that might happen this year, but we have training on Saturday mornings.
Jeremy Lesniak (05:47.96)
Jeremy Lesniak (05:54.139)
Mmmmm
Jeremy Lesniak (06:12.219)
Mm-hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (06:15.406)
And so this starting, it kind of overlapped with our class. So I was like, hey, I'd like to do this. I won't be at class this Saturday. If you wanted to move our class there, that'd be cool. I have a little showing and I think it's a pretty small class and other people were kind of either happy to have the day off or had other commitments that it just didn't quite work out. The stunt team, they didn't have any excuse.
Jeremy Lesniak (06:20.848)
Hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (06:44.642)
They gotta join this year. It'll be fun.
Jeremy Lesniak (06:46.843)
So let's talk about that because you, know, over the years we've had a number of folks come in, names that the audience knows that you would know that come out of, you know, they made the transition from martial arts to acting or martial arts to stunts, sometimes both. And I'm always fascinated with the translation and the transition from traditional martial arts to stunt work.
Aubrey Koontz (07:13.368)
So yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (07:14.455)
And what, and I'm going to set this up and then I'll turn it back to you. But what, what I find most fascinating, there's something that I, and I heard him say this in, in person because I was very fortunate to be in the room. And I know he said it a number of times when Michael J. White talked about doing his first movie and how terrible it looked because he moved too fast. And that's something that I, as a traditional martial artist, how many of us were ever taught, hold on.
when you're trying to do this for real or make it look like you're doing it for real, you might be going too fast. Blumime on.
Aubrey Koontz (07:51.736)
Right. Yeah. And I mean, that's something that I even, we did kind of like a little, not even seminar, the advanced belt training that Victor and Karen do at Wolf. they had us kind of lead the demonstration actually last week, the prior Saturday. And we kind of came at it from the stunt perspective for the purpose of martial arts demonstrations. So like live demonstrations, it's still stunts. It's stage combat.
You know, it's just not on camera. And having to explain you have to learn to do things the wrong way is a very, it's a tough thing for martial artists. It's, I personally think it's very helpful to have the martial arts background for stunts because it's easier to make things look real when you know how to do them for real than taking somebody who doesn't have that experience and being like, Hey,
Jeremy Lesniak (08:31.333)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:46.159)
Mm-hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (08:49.742)
throw a punch in a Muay Thai style, throw a kick in a Taekwondo style, if you don't have any kind of martial arts reference, there's pros and cons.
Jeremy Lesniak (08:54.971)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:00.513)
What other than adjusting speed, what are some of the other changes that a traditional martial artist might be surprised about if they're on screen?
Aubrey Koontz (09:11.52)
I'm still learning that myself. Technique, for sure. You have to learn to do things bigger. Do things bigger in a way that's... Yes. But it can't look too exaggerated. So it's a fine line of like looking realistic, but being safe and being able to be seen. So I'd say like one of probably the one of the biggest things, especially from a martial artist who's very...
Jeremy Lesniak (09:20.508)
Mm. Exaggerated, right? Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (09:35.311)
Mmm.
Aubrey Koontz (09:41.24)
you know, trained in the power and you you really, you drive through your opponent. You don't punch your opponent. You're punching through them, right? We can't do that with a scene partner or an actor or whoever's in front of you. You're a partner. So you gotta learn to pull your punches basically, or stacking different ways, depending on the camera. And
Jeremy Lesniak (09:48.56)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (10:03.355)
What do mean by stacking? What's that term?
Aubrey Koontz (10:05.902)
So basically it's layering the bodies and or the hits in a way that on camera sells the hit. So if we're
Jeremy Lesniak (10:15.595)
Okay, okay, so angles, know, knowing where the camera is. Okay.
Aubrey Koontz (10:20.396)
Yeah, if we're squared off here and I punch you here, like you can very clearly see this gap, but maybe we're stacked here and I punch you like this. And as long as the partner's reaction is good, you can sell hits in a very different way. If you had to sell it this profile, you can stack behind, stack in front. There's just, there's a lot of different angles and targeting things that come into when you're factoring.
Jeremy Lesniak (10:29.115)
Mmm.
Aubrey Koontz (10:49.474)
hand-to-hand fighting for stunts.
Jeremy Lesniak (10:54.488)
we go way back, one of the proudest moments I have doing this show is for, you're familiar with the show, Into the Badlands.
Aubrey Koontz (11:02.786)
Brief, mildly, mildly familiar.
Jeremy Lesniak (11:04.91)
You should go check it out. it was on AMC. I think they did four seasons for season two. They reached out and I got to interview the two Daniel Wu and Emily Beecham who were Daniel definitely Emily. would say yes, the two leads. And one of the things we talked about, one of the things that made that show really special is that my understanding on most films is that the stunt
choreography group, right? The director, all those folks, they are a small percentage. Whereas on Into the Badlands, it was like 50-50.
Aubrey Koontz (11:47.95)
That's awesome.
Jeremy Lesniak (11:49.215)
And if I remember correctly, Daniel talked more about this. So anybody out there, if you're interested, go back to those episodes. Those were kind of fun.
I've never, you I haven't been in a movie. I haven't been part of a stunt team. I competed in tournaments, but that's not the same thing. And I'm very aware of that. But I think it gives me an idea of what that I don't know, right? I can tell that I don't know what's going on here. And you just brought up a number of things. You go, man, like the angles. And so when you're doing that, how much of that stacking you said, how much of that is it your discretion?
versus the, would director be the right word?
Aubrey Koontz (12:30.35)
Yeah. So typically there's a hierarchy, Stunt people, we're down here. There's the totem pole. You got the director. Then ultimately, the lead actor, but also the stunt coordinator, right? So it's kind of, there sometimes is a bit of a competition of desire and wants of the lead actor being like, I don't think my character would do it this way.
Jeremy Lesniak (12:48.251)
Mmm.
Aubrey Koontz (12:59.97)
and the stunt corners like, okay, but that's what's in the script. That's what's gonna be safe. So sometimes there's a little bit of compromise from both ends and then stunt people, we do what we're told, right? So it's ultimately the coordinator who's more so determining those angles and saying, hey, the camera is gonna be here. You need to be able to sell this in this way. So.
Jeremy Lesniak (13:08.549)
Hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (13:25.856)
It's listening. We need to understand the angles. And obviously a lot of stuff people become coordinators, right? know, football players become coaches. It's, you know, martial artists become senseis, right? So it's, it's, we need to understand that. And it's helpful to know where those requests and where that feedback is coming from, because we can say, obviously the camera's right there. I shouldn't be punching this way.
Jeremy Lesniak (13:32.059)
Mmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (13:35.611)
That make sense?
Aubrey Koontz (13:55.128)
Hey, is it okay if I do a cross instead of an act? Like the attack is still the same. Can, if I stack it here, is that gonna be okay for your reaction versus stacking it here? So it's a little nuanced and it's important for us to know those things more, I would say in training. Cause we're doing that kind of stuff. We're acting as coordinators for each other quite a bit and like choreographing tests.
Jeremy Lesniak (13:59.674)
Hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (14:24.386)
fights in training and such. important to understand, I'd say when it actually comes to an actual film set, we're doing what we're told.
Jeremy Lesniak (14:25.135)
Yeah, that makes sense.
Jeremy Lesniak (14:35.899)
All right, we're gonna come back to this whole stunt piece, but you've brought up a couple times that you had training prior. And so let's go back, let's talk about that, and that'll give us some context so we can start to thread the two together. So when did you start training? And why, I guess why is a more important question than why.
Aubrey Koontz (14:54.584)
Well, so my very first time I remember anything martial arts was at Walmart seeing the Tommy Nitro's Karate Adventure DVD and inflatable punching bag that you could get. It is not great. All love to Tommy Nitro, but I remembered when I got that and I was like, man, this is awesome. I want to do karate. You know, we didn't know.
Jeremy Lesniak (15:21.765)
How old were you? Roughly how old were you?
Aubrey Koontz (15:23.95)
I'd say seven, seven. Six to nine probably I would say. And I remember thinking it was so cool. It was awesome. we just didn't know. My parents had no martial arts connections or experience growing up. it was kind of like, ah, I don't know, maybe when you're older, you know, it just never really came up again.
Jeremy Lesniak (15:26.542)
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (15:31.675)
Sure.
Jeremy Lesniak (15:45.253)
Mm.
Aubrey Koontz (15:53.422)
other than me just being like, ah, I want to do that. That'd be fun. And so really when I was, I think, 13, I always get mixed up if it's 12 or 13, but one of my, some of my friends that I played basketball with, they just kind of like mentioned like, oh yeah, we have karate on Tuesday. And I was like, you do karate? Where? And turns out there was like a whole group of my friends that did martial arts together.
Jeremy Lesniak (16:23.609)
And they didn't tell you?
Aubrey Koontz (16:24.992)
No! mean they were, I mean they were probably yellow belts or less. Like they hadn't been doing it super long. But I was like, well, good group can I do it too? And so sure enough the rest is history on that.
Jeremy Lesniak (16:40.581)
So you go home, you tell your parents, hey, karate, I wanna do this. And they say yes, and you go. And I find people starting at adolescence to be really interesting, because it's the opposite, right? We think about when people generally start. They usually start really young. They rarely start in those teen years. And then there's a bit of an increase as people go through their 20s, 30s, 40s.
What do you remember about those early classes and your interest level and all that?
Aubrey Koontz (17:17.62)
I loved it. I personally, yes, yes. Personally, I'm glad I started when I did because I think at that age, you're old enough to learn good form. And for me, I haven't grown since I was like 10. So I was in my body and like, obviously things shift and whatever, but that was my body. didn't have to, I didn't have to change as I grew and got taller, got
Jeremy Lesniak (17:19.301)
from day one. Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (17:24.987)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (17:41.476)
Okay.
Aubrey Koontz (17:46.51)
Longer or whatever. I didn't have to adapt. It was like boom. This is me. This is how my body moves Let's let's train from that, you know, and I think sometimes when people start at such a young age they learn poor form that gets Excused because it's like oh They're eight, you know, oh They're just 11, you know, but I think when you're 13 when you're in your teens and in the you know adult class
Jeremy Lesniak (18:08.187)
Mm.
Aubrey Koontz (18:17.006)
It's a little more stringent, I would say, in making sure that form is correct rather than just passing it on because they're kids. And so then you have red belts who don't throw a correct sidekick because, well, that's how they've always done it, because they were children.
Jeremy Lesniak (18:34.843)
That makes sense. So 13 you're doing and what were you training?
Aubrey Koontz (18:42.562)
That's a great question. We called it karate. It's a big mix. was pretty much everything my instructor had trained in and what he deemed to be the most like practical. So it's not flashy. It's not pretty flippy. Yeah, it's it's not. Yeah, yeah, we did not do flashy taekwondo kicks. We didn't really do
Jeremy Lesniak (19:00.859)
Sounds like what I teach. What do you teach? Karate? What kind? I don't know.
Aubrey Koontz (19:12.194)
Breaking or we did do some kata. it The ones that I believe are in the mix. It was ryuky tempo American freestyle fushikan jujitsu and Okinawan cry it's just like Karate so yeah. Yes. I love it
Jeremy Lesniak (19:28.187)
That mix. That is a mix, yeah. But you enjoyed it.
Jeremy Lesniak (19:35.963)
And how long were you, because if I've caught on correctly, you're no longer training in that school. OK.
Aubrey Koontz (19:44.376)
I'm not, that was in my hometown. Took me about six and a half years to get my black belt. Then by that point I was going to college. So I actually came back on my first Labor Day weekend to test for the black belt. I was like, guys, we gotta get moving on this, I'm ready. So.
Pretty much at that point I had stopped training there other than when I you know came back for a winter break or a summer break and they were still going Just being at school couldn't very well come home for Tuesday and Thursday trainings I did do a kind of self-defense martial arts Yeah, it was fine
Jeremy Lesniak (20:29.221)
Yeah, it's tough.
Jeremy Lesniak (20:36.599)
You clearly loved it.
Aubrey Koontz (20:41.406)
A lot of kids. Well, so it was through the college, so I thought, great, I'm going to train with other college kids. No, children. So not quite sure how that worked out, but it was kind of like one of your PE courses with a bunch of kids. I did want to. I thought it would be great.
Jeremy Lesniak (20:41.871)
It was, it was fine.
Jeremy Lesniak (20:47.259)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (20:50.779)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (21:01.945)
and I suspect you wanted to train.
And some training better than no training is kind of my philosophy.
Aubrey Koontz (21:09.954)
Yeah, so it was just a semester course. It was just something to try. Did not sign back up for it again the next semester. Then a pretty study heavy major at K-State. So did not end up having the most free time and I filled it with other extracurricular activities and such. So kind of during college it fairly well stagnated other than me going to the
Jeremy Lesniak (21:28.091)
Hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (21:38.904)
fitness center and you know, using the punching bag, practicing some kata things just in one of the open rooms. But yeah, not much training I'd say for a good four, four-ish years, four and a half years.
Jeremy Lesniak (21:55.205)
Hmm. Okay. So you come out of college and then what?
Aubrey Koontz (22:03.758)
So in college, I found out about the stunt company. so it was just a friend I'd met in an accounting class. found out we were both martial artists. He did taekwondo, and I was like, Taekwondo. I did karate, you know. You gotta get that little beef going between you. And he just kind of said like, yeah, I'm on a stunt team in Kansas City. was like, wait, that exists? Like that exists here in Kansas? Like I don't have to go to...
Jeremy Lesniak (22:08.488)
okay.
Aubrey Koontz (22:33.73)
Hollywood to do that because I sure don't want to do that. So I came up here and visited Ronan and looked for jobs up here closer to graduation. Got a job in my field with the intention of training with Ronan more so. I wasn't just set on.
Jeremy Lesniak (22:54.011)
So Ronin is the name of the stunt team. Okay. I feel like you skipped over something kind of important. Yeah. Okay. So it's on your shirt. What was it about stunts that was so inviting to you that you were willing to direct your life in that direction?
Aubrey Koontz (22:56.418)
Yes, Ronins.com.
Aubrey Koontz (23:01.176)
show.
Aubrey Koontz (23:18.328)
So I wish I had an actual like origin story for that. Some of my teammates really do. They're like, I watched this one Bruce Lee movie and it just boom. I knew that's what I had to do. I don't know. I remember thinking like in high school and college, I'm like, man, being a stunt double, that sounds really cool. I don't know how in the world you do that. And so I think one night in college, I just like Googled it, like how to become a stunt.
And there's all this stuff about, you know, joining guilds and joining the union and moving to Hollywood or LA or Atlanta. And I was like, nevermind. Not for me. Won't be doing that. So really made no effort toward it. I just thought, man, that'd be really cool. That'd be a cool dream job. And then just kind of.
Jeremy Lesniak (24:14.105)
and then it sort of falls in your lap.
Aubrey Koontz (24:16.526)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Pretty, pretty awesome how God works sometimes it was not at all part of the plan. It literally was just conversation about martial arts and somebody just mentions, yeah, I'm on a stunt team and I was like,
Jeremy Lesniak (24:18.907)
OK.
That's right.
Jeremy Lesniak (24:33.947)
What is it, know, just about everybody watching or listening knows what it's like to start training martial arts. They know how it feels to step in that first class. They understand the anxiety. They understand, you know, even if they're training in a second school, a third school, you know, there's still some nerves that happen there. Is it the same thing when you go to a stunt team practice class? I don't even know what we would call it.
Aubrey Koontz (25:02.996)
say so. I think my first couple visits, so I think I got to have basically two or three visits before I could join like some of the classes and such, it was awkward for sure. It's a pretty small, or at the time it was a smaller group, and a lot of people who had like grown up together. So then I come in and I do have like a connection to this
guy from school, but not like a great one. You know, it was kind of like, oh, hey, I met him in class. He said I could, he said I could come like, so it was definitely a little bit like, hey guys, how's it going? And it was during COVID, they're, you know, training in masks. It was, it was just kind of like, it was different. And I'd hope new people coming to Ronan now don't feel that same.
Jeremy Lesniak (25:38.361)
I know who that person is. I know their name. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (25:50.779)
Mmm.
Aubrey Koontz (26:02.222)
level of kind of trepidation, kind of awkwardness, a little clickiness. But I was excited to be there. They threw me right in and let me kind of do a little bit of fight choreography with them. I think my first day I came they were doing falls off the fall tower. So that was kind of like, ooh, this is different, crazy. But I'm a fairly
Jeremy Lesniak (26:09.243)
Hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (26:30.764)
competitive person in the sense of I have to step up because well, they're here so I need to I need to also be there or better than some of them, you know, and so I think Seeing that the team was all at very different levels knowing that I was not the bottom knowing that I was at least Mid tier was like, okay
Jeremy Lesniak (26:53.805)
Was that because of your martial arts experience?
Aubrey Koontz (26:56.578)
I would say so. mean, we all know martial arts very much depends on body awareness. Like to be a good martial artist, you should probably know how your body works, how it moves, how long you are. I think that helped me for sure and definitely gave me some more confidence going into it, especially, you know, hand to hand kind of stuff. It's like, okay, I know how to do a reverse punch. I know how to do a jab. I know how to do a roundhouse. Like those kinds of things, they don't...
They don't have to teach you what those moves are. And then I'd say when you're getting into the falls, the rolls, the layouts, just the general body awareness from martial arts of break falls and knowing how your body moves, how it rolls, how much space you need before the person in front of you, I think that certainly helped me.
Jeremy Lesniak (27:50.553)
I can imagine there was some comparison, right? You're taking two things, something you had done for a while and really enjoyed, something that you were new to, but also I suspect enjoyed right away. Did you find yourself comparing?
Aubrey Koontz (28:09.57)
between martial arts and stunts? So yes, because it is tough sometimes when we get people who are martial artists coming in to Rona and just starting, sometimes some of the boys are like, okay, take all that information you know about martial arts, put it here in this box. It's very nice. We're gonna set it over here for later. It is good to have, we're glad you have it, but right now we're teaching you stunts.
Jeremy Lesniak (28:11.224)
Yeah.
Aubrey Koontz (28:39.93)
because of those. Yeah. I mean, in, in a lot of ways, yes, because of just learning the wrong techniques, basically to be able to keep you and your partner safe in the demonstrations. One, one thing that's fair where we talk about a holy fist, you know, martial arts, we'd never want to punch something with a holy fist, but in stunts, it's more important to keep your partner safe than
Jeremy Lesniak (28:41.243)
Put on your white belt is what I'm hearing. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (28:55.035)
Mm-hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (29:08.952)
keep your hands safe. So if you accidentally, if you accidentally hit them, you've got that give to help protect your partner a little bit. Obviously we don't want to hit each other, but adrenaline happens. People forget to duck, forget to block.
Jeremy Lesniak (29:10.906)
Okay.
That makes sense.
Jeremy Lesniak (29:23.907)
right? Yeah.
When you were when you were starting off with stunts, what skills were you finding to be the most difficult?
Aubrey Koontz (29:35.726)
You're the most difficult.
For me, I am not an adrenaline junkie. I like it, but sometimes doing balls in different ways, some of the, you see some of the boys, those should be like, okay, just send themselves off the tower, flipping, hitting stuff. That's very tough for me. The mental block of like, this doesn't feel safe. Granted, most of stunts.
Jeremy Lesniak (30:04.635)
Hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (30:07.018)
is unsafe in some capacity, but there are ways that I feel like, you know, this is within my control, this is within the realm of safety, when it kind of starts getting out of that to a more uncomfortable movement or something that I'm just not as good at. The mental block of like, I don't want to do that. Sometimes I just avoid it, which is not a good thing.
Jeremy Lesniak (30:20.411)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (30:28.049)
How do you work through that?
Jeremy Lesniak (30:33.275)
Okay. I think the closest comparison for most martial artists would be sparring, right? And stepping up some of that intensity or some of the more freeform self-defense style scenarios where you have multiple attackers, right? Some of that stuff, I've watched people completely melt down at testing and everything when they're presented with that because it feels like it's so far outside the realm of safety that they can't wrap their head around it.
Aubrey Koontz (30:59.48)
Right. I think in some ways, I'd say particularly with kind of the sparring scenario or like if we're doing a say multiple person fight scene, I think that is very important to trust your teammates, trust your sparring partner or your scene partner. I think it's important to build that trust between the people you're training with to know like, hey, if I break down, if I...
Jeremy Lesniak (31:14.235)
Mm-hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (31:29.486)
can't rise to the occasion, they will stop, right? They can stop. They can help fill in the gaps and protect me when I'm not able. So I think for me, it's the stuff that is only dependent on me or non-movable objects that I think is hard because there's nothing else. And I know if I can't do it, I might get hurt.
I think those are the things that are more difficult for me. And being competitive, being driven to excellence and trying to be the best when I can't do stuff, it's frustrating and it's difficult. So I will say that I had to significantly improve in that area because it's like, listen, not everybody can do everything. You need to do the things you can and focus on improving those that are more of a struggle.
Jeremy Lesniak (32:28.539)
But what's a skill that maybe you weren't comfortable doing when you started stunt work that isn't as big of a deal now?
Aubrey Koontz (32:37.294)
For me, something that I'm still improving but have very much improved, I would say it's our recs. So you're hitting the ground pretty hard. And there's not really a way to avoid pain. I think, like there are ways you can lessen the pain, right? And you're still safe, but pretty much no matter what, it's gonna hurt. So I think those are the things that I have struggled with the most, because I'm like,
Jeremy Lesniak (32:48.196)
Hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (33:06.094)
I'm doing it and it's hurting my head. I'm doing it. It's, you know, it's kind of jostling me a little bit. Like it's, it's scary. Really. It's just kind of, am I hurt? Am I injured? No. It's just kind of like, I'm doing it. I'm doing it wrong. It hurts. And they're like, well, you're not necessarily doing it wrong. Sometimes it just hurts.
Jeremy Lesniak (33:11.002)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (33:23.481)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (33:27.067)
There's a reason stunt people have a shelf life. You don't see a lot of people, mean, Jackie Chan being the notable exception I know of, you don't see a lot of people do stunt work for 40 years.
Aubrey Koontz (33:38.828)
Yeah. And if you do, have to, you very much have to adapt. You have to pivot to the things that your body can still handle. So I think that's true of the martial arts as well. Like, again, there are people who do the flying tricking kicks and spin with a bow staff and do this flipping butterfly kick 540 tornadoes, you know, but there are people who can't do that. And that doesn't make them less of a martial artist.
It just means their strengths are elsewhere. And I would say, particularly in Ronin, we try to focus on your strengths. We think everybody should be a well-rounded stunt performer. We all need to know the basics, right? Everybody should be able to do this, this, this, basics, I mean, you have to know hand to hand. You have to be able to throw a convincing punch or kick.
Jeremy Lesniak (34:24.899)
What are some of the basics?
Aubrey Koontz (34:35.726)
Do you have to be able to kick at the head? Not necessarily. But if you're going to kick at the head, you better be controlled enough to do so. I think we kind of say if you can't hold a kick at a certain level, you should not be kicking at that level in a fight scene because then you're out of control. You're not in a position to keep your partner safe if you're just throwing it to throw it. It doesn't matter if you can
Jeremy Lesniak (34:52.443)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (34:57.659)
Mm-hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (35:04.93)
get your foot up there if it's not in a controlled way that is going to keep your partner's head safe. But basics, I'd say hand to hand at a pretty base level for everybody. Tactical work. You should know how to hold pistols and rifles and look somewhat convincing walking with them.
Jeremy Lesniak (35:12.111)
That sense.
Aubrey Koontz (35:32.846)
basic layouts and rules, which a layout is kind of, know, sprawling. It's kind of more what we would think of like a breakfall. You should be able to hit the ground at least.
decently aggressively. wrecks and falls, I would say you're starting to get into more specialized territory. There are kind of base level wrecks and falls that we all should know, but then kind of getting into those, the higher falls, the harder hits, the more intricate you're falling, but you're bouncing off this thing and call it tick talking down. But there, there are different levels, I guess, to all these categories.
and we should all be decent or all be good at the levels, but everybody kind of excels in different areas.
Jeremy Lesniak (36:25.47)
Sounds like a similar philosophy to training in a traditional martial arts school.
Aubrey Koontz (36:29.688)
course. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (36:30.907)
You know, some people are going to prefer forums or sparring or grappling, but we want everybody to have a base level on all of these things for various ranks.
Aubrey Koontz (36:41.378)
You should all be able to protect yourself as best you can, right?
Jeremy Lesniak (36:43.791)
Yeah. Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (36:49.359)
I've asked this question before, but I'm going to ask it of you because different people have given me different answers. How has your time training in stunts changed your relationship to martial arts and how has your martial arts background impacted your relationship to stunt work?
Aubrey Koontz (37:08.79)
That's a good question. I am still able to train a bit on Saturdays, kind of like what I mentioned. It's a bit of a different setup than kind of the school that I went to before. It's kind of a small get-together. The man doesn't charge, but it's a similar like mixed style. It's kind of all his things. He's got some Ike dough, he's got some taekwondo, he's got some other forms of
karate and different things. And so his style, he calls it practical combat systems. So in a similar vein, it's still the stuff that's more practical. We're more focused on self-defense and making sure we get home safely at the end of the day, right? So then comes in stunts where in some ways you do need to be a little more flashy depending on the style that we're going for for the fight, you know.
You can have a big wide brawler thug fight where you're untrained or you can have a tight like really boxer fight and then kind of everything in between, So I think it's been interesting in stunts for me to kind of lean into other styles in different ways or like learning to try to emulate different styles. But at the end of the day, I definitely default back to my
Jeremy Lesniak (38:12.411)
Hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (38:33.93)
my style, right? It's muscle memory. It's what's been ingrained into you. I would say that I do try to focus on kind of reactions and stuff more, even in my martial arts class. It's like, if somebody's supposed to be punching me in the face or punching me in the gut, I try to at least give it like, you know, because it's it's light practice for anticipating directions of attacks.
Jeremy Lesniak (38:35.771)
Hmm. Yeah.
Aubrey Koontz (39:03.188)
making sure my body is moving, caving and turning and making sounds the right way. I've had to get louder for stunts. You we all key eye, or at least we should. You gotta be loud. You gotta sell it when you're doing stunts. there's just so much crossover, but also so many differences.
So I think it's just really broadening kind of my understanding of my martial arts, but then taking bits and pieces from other ones to be able to at least portray them convincingly enough on screen. So they're like, hey, we need a cool Muay Thai fight. I haven't trained in Muay Thai. Like I've trained some elbows and knees and whatever, but I need to be able to adapt my fighting style to that.
at least convincingly enough for choreography. So I feel like there's a lot, there's a lot that it affects of each other, but I don't think they're necessarily hindering each other anymore. When maybe early on it was like, but why would I punch like that? That's, mean I'm supposed to punch wrong? I think that was a little bit of a hurdle that I had to get over. And that I think a lot of martial arts get over, martial artists have to get over is like.
Jeremy Lesniak (40:03.739)
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (40:10.562)
Yeah.
Aubrey Koontz (40:31.438)
But why would I do that? But that doesn't make sense. It's like, correct. It doesn't make sense.
Jeremy Lesniak (40:34.875)
I suspect it's similar to what happens for a lot of us when we train in a new style and things are done differently. And a lot of people will just throw out what they've done. It's always in there. But for some people who want to maintain those two distinct skill sets, right? Here's my karate, here's my taekwondo or whatever they may be, that flip back and forth can be really challenging. And I imagine that that's what you're facing as well.
Aubrey Koontz (41:04.172)
Right. I mean, I would kind of say in a way it's like learning a separate martial art, especially in kind of the hand to hand thing that in the different styles and ways that we learn. It's it's they're very similar, but they're not the same. So I think in a way I would prefer to have the martial arts experience than not, because we definitely have people that come to stunts that don't have it. And it's not bad. It's just different.
So I think having that martial arts base is great, but you do have to kind of sometimes box it up and put it away to learn this new way of doing things.
Jeremy Lesniak (41:46.427)
What's next? When you think about all this, right? And I don't mean that you're peaked or anything. You're obviously quite young and this is all still fairly new for you, but I know you've had some success and sounds like you're at least as passionate about it as you were. I can't imagine you're not thinking about what's next with this.
Aubrey Koontz (42:11.618)
Yes, it, I think it would be so cool to do stunts full time. I don't know that I would foresee that happening, nor would I necessarily want to. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, right? I think it would be tough. You would have to sacrifice lots of things. Basically throw the degree out the window and the career job.
Jeremy Lesniak (42:17.691)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (42:41.273)
Even? Yeah.
Aubrey Koontz (42:41.558)
like and kind of hope to make it big right and I do kind of feel like for stunts the way to do that you'd have to move you'd have to move to those bigger film markets and I just I don't want to do that I I like being here in the Midwest for now I like having the relationships that I have here I love training with Ronan while also having
the stability of a career job.
Jeremy Lesniak (43:14.081)
I would imagine that being a full-time stunt performer becomes very nerve-wracking because if you're injured, now you're also unemployed. That sounds terrifying to me.
Aubrey Koontz (43:27.086)
Mm-hmm.
It does. I like having a reliable job. Do I enjoy my job as much as I enjoy stunts? Absolutely not. But I enjoy it enough and I'm very thankful for the flexibility that they do offer me because film is so unpredictable. Like I could get a coordinator to text me and like, hey, are you available?
tomorrow? Maybe, let's see. So my job has been, I am an interior designer for commercial businesses. yeah, lots of furniture, lots of specs.
Jeremy Lesniak (44:05.571)
OK. What's your day job?
Jeremy Lesniak (44:17.531)
Not anything to do with martial arts or stunt work. I don't even know how we get there.
Aubrey Koontz (44:21.238)
Not even remotely, no.
Now, everybody always likes to hear about it. They're like, what? You do that? Yeah. So I don't know. And I would like to be able to keep doing stunts as long as I can. Obviously, like you said, there's a shelf life. I don't know how much more the body takes. I already wake up with like, my back. You know, my coworkers are like, you're young. You don't know. I'm like,
martial arts.
Jeremy Lesniak (44:56.635)
So let's talk about recovery then, because it's a subject that martial artists are starting to talk about because for the longest time, most of what I heard out of the martial arts community around recovery and health was just shut up and train harder. And that was about it, right? And then it was, well, know, ice and ibuprofen, which
Aubrey Koontz (45:16.428)
Yeah, tough one up.
Jeremy Lesniak (45:23.897)
Heads up everybody, neither of those improves your recovery. Both of them slow your recovery. You don't have to believe me, you can go do your research. But I can't imagine that you and the folks you're hanging out with in the stunt world are taking that approach.
Aubrey Koontz (45:31.768)
when
Aubrey Koontz (45:43.17)
Well, you might be surprised. I try not to, personally. I do know there's a lot of energy drinks and ibuprofen being consumed. I've tried to avoid that if I can. I definitely sleep with a heating pad every night on my back. I think it's just important. Same with martial arts. You gotta stretch. You gotta warm up. Try to stretch.
Jeremy Lesniak (45:44.673)
Really? Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (46:02.657)
Mmm. Okay.
Aubrey Koontz (46:12.654)
before and after. If you get hurt or jostled or pulled something or strained a little bit, stop. Unless you're on a set, they sometimes say, we gotta be invincible. Something's untouchable, But if we're training, listen to the body, right? You need to stop, don't injure it more. I got dropped doing a wire.
Jeremy Lesniak (46:27.835)
Mmm.
Aubrey Koontz (46:42.688)
stunt just in training and messed up my shoulder for like a year and a half. So it's all good now, but might come back to bite me when I'm older. So I think it's just important to figure out and make sure you know how to protect your body if you get dropped. Don't have your arm extended and get it crushed, right? Same with
Jeremy Lesniak (47:02.608)
Mm-hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (47:10.498)
like break falls and taking rolls and whatnot, you learn how to shape your body in a way that can help protect those joints and protect the bones. When we do a layout, we're not just eating it or taking it on the big muscle groups, right? And then rolling. That's not to say you're not still gonna get bruised. You're not still gonna feel it in the morning, but it's gonna give you much better longevity knowing how to take.
the hits, knowing how to fall, knowing how to react. If you get punched in the face, you don't just whip your head, you whip your shoulders and turn hips and the waist and then you throw the head, right? If you're falling back and just a back breakfall, think of that, you keep your head tucked, keep it tucked and once your body stops, then throw your head, right? There's just ways I would say.
Jeremy Lesniak (47:49.499)
Mmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (48:00.261)
Mmm.
Aubrey Koontz (48:07.416)
to try to prevent the pain, prevent the injuries, but when they do come.
Everybody's different. I use a roller. I have a massage gun. I have a heating pad. I have some ice.
Jeremy Lesniak (48:21.595)
Okay, so you're at least thinking about it. You're probably doing more than most martial artists with that and water, right? Sure.
Aubrey Koontz (48:28.684)
Water, of course. I drink water all the
Jeremy Lesniak (48:34.531)
water's gonna flush all that stuff out if it's available to be flushed. I find it funny that as a community that...
Aubrey Koontz (48:37.816)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (48:48.481)
at least a significant portion holds up our ability to protect ourselves as the litmus test for skill. And then there are a lot of people who are frantically injured in a way that limits their ability to keep themselves safe and they do nothing about it. And I find that to be so counterintuitive, so silly. Don't be silly. Don't be silly.
Aubrey Koontz (49:13.71)
Don't silly. Just don't.
Jeremy Lesniak (49:18.148)
Alright.
Stunts, traditional, interior design, what else should we know about you? What other weird off the wall thing are you going to pull out of a corner of your interests that doesn't relate to anything else? to the audience, it sounds like I'm leading her onto something. I'm just guessing.
Aubrey Koontz (49:39.222)
I mean, I don't know. feel like, you know, to me, it all goes together, right? It's my life. But I guess the things that are kind like...
Jeremy Lesniak (49:46.521)
Because it's you, right? Right.
Aubrey Koontz (49:52.598)
I mean, I am pretty involved in my church and doing stuff with the kids, for better or worse. I do try to help them out there.
Jeremy Lesniak (50:04.858)
I think that's for better. think anytime anybody's helping kids, that's a good.
Aubrey Koontz (50:09.39)
It's a matter of the attitude with the kids when they're not listening and whatnot. like, all right, come on. Yeah, so I do a little bit of teaching with the kids. I love event planning and I like to dress up. Victor and Karen, they had their double dagger class actually that just finished up this weekend. I had a different outfit for every class.
Jeremy Lesniak (50:13.103)
Well, yeah, mean sometimes there are pain in the butt.
Jeremy Lesniak (50:34.951)
So to the audience, Victor Garino, who's been on the show many times, his wife Karen, who her birthday was yesterday. So happy birthday, Karen. And they've doing some fun classes. And yeah, I saw some shots of the most recent one. I'll let you talk about it. But I heard you were the one that committed to dressing up the most.
Aubrey Koontz (50:43.342)
You know?
Aubrey Koontz (50:56.494)
Oh, of course. Yeah. Basically, if there's an opportunity for me to dress up for something that's, you know, somewhat acceptable or mildly expected, I'm going to do it. You know, we can't really just go to work every day in a costume. That'd be weird. But if there's some kind of costume contest at work or, you know, they're like, oh, bring costumes for stunts tonight. We're going to film some fight scenes in a character. I'm like, all right.
Done.
Jeremy Lesniak (51:26.619)
So here's the common thread, right? So we've got a common thread now, and I'm wondering if the audience is picking up on it. Church doesn't fall into it, but it's being someone else.
Right? So when you were, we're not gonna poke at this too much because, you know, this isn't, even though we've had plenty of people that, and their episodes turned into therapy, and I think we're up to like half a dozen people who've cried. That's not what I set out for. But who did you want to be when you were a kid?
Aubrey Koontz (51:40.94)
It's on.
Aubrey Koontz (51:55.882)
there you go.
Aubrey Koontz (52:03.95)
I think that that's it. Like I didn't know. Like, you know, some kids like, when I grow up, I'm gonna be this. I never really had that.
Jeremy Lesniak (52:08.879)
Really? Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (52:14.117)
Was there a celebrity or an actor or an athlete that you really looked up to?
Aubrey Koontz (52:20.054)
No. I wish I had like cool answers for these things. I just didn't. I am not, I would say I'm not an imaginative or creative person. Like I am artistic. I like to do artistic things, but it doesn't come from me, if that makes sense. I feel like I'm usually taking things and trying to make them better or seeing work someone else has done.
Jeremy Lesniak (52:20.953)
Okay, interesting.
Jeremy Lesniak (52:35.31)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (52:42.107)
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak (52:48.046)
Okay.
Aubrey Koontz (52:50.422)
and more or less plagiarizing it, trying to do it.
Jeremy Lesniak (52:52.931)
It's a left brain approach to right brain things. Interesting, OK, alright, I actually can relate to that very much.
Aubrey Koontz (52:55.906)
Yes.
Yeah, so I mean, I think that's part of the thing that is confusing about, you know, being somebody else because you would think I would enjoy kind of like roleplay games or like LARP. I went to LARP with some friends one time. I was I didn't like it. It was weird. I wasn't good at it.
Jeremy Lesniak (53:02.235)
Hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (53:22.811)
Your face absolutely confirms that.
Aubrey Koontz (53:26.1)
Yeah, it was worth a try. It was a fun enough experience.
Jeremy Lesniak (53:28.859)
For the audience, LARP is a live action role playing and imagine it like Dungeons and Dragons, but instead of on paper and with dice, you're acting it out as a character, as an actor.
Aubrey Koontz (53:40.77)
yeah live action D &D I I was not good at it I just am not good at improv I guess is probably what it is if if you gave me a script and you're like Aubrey Kuntz you are this character you need to say these words great but if you're like pick your character become them no so I don't know what that says about me I'm not good at D &D I'm not good at lore
Jeremy Lesniak (54:08.315)
So it is ironic that you bring up the improv because I've said on the show, I think it is the non-martial arts thing that most martial artists would benefit from the most.
Aubrey Koontz (54:10.518)
Not good at improv.
Aubrey Koontz (54:23.806)
Really? And why do you say that?
Jeremy Lesniak (54:24.475)
Yeah, couple years ago I said I want to do something I haven't done and took an MROF class, it like six weeks, and it changed the way my brain worked.
Aubrey Koontz (54:38.798)
interesting.
Jeremy Lesniak (54:40.155)
not just in terms of thought process and verbal but Physical as well. I would encourage you to do it even if even if you're not gonna become an improv comic even if you're not gonna be a Script actor right even if you're gonna remain in the stunt world. I think there's a lot of value there because it forces us to Break down those barriers
Aubrey Koontz (55:06.574)
Mm.
Jeremy Lesniak (55:07.095)
What is in almost every martial arts school, what is the general rule of self-defense? The only wrong move is doing nothing, right? And that's what improv fights, is that instinct to just do nothing and freeze. It teaches you to accept that your first instinct is usually the right one.
Aubrey Koontz (55:33.358)
but also not married to it and be able to give it to something else if needed.
Jeremy Lesniak (55:33.497)
And so I think there's a lot of value there. Yeah. Yeah, it just, you you throw a technique in sparring and it doesn't work. don't, you don't just sit on the mat and cry and say, it didn't work. You go onto the next one. It's not about one particular movement. It's about the match or it's about that class or it's about that learning process. And, yeah, I think you should do it. I think everybody out there should do it. really think you should do it.
Aubrey Koontz (56:01.582)
I mean, more or less sometimes stunts is improv. You got punched in the face and you're over here, ugh, in so much pain, but your partner's fighting somebody else and he's not ready for you yet, so you're just like, ugh, are they done? No, okay. So you do have to keep acting sometimes.
Jeremy Lesniak (56:05.753)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy Lesniak (56:16.773)
So I don't.
I can't speak to the stunt world on this, but I know that in the acting world, a lot of what we celebrate the most in terms of lines and monologues and scenes in film and TV has a heavy component of improv. Robin Williams is one of the most beloved actors of all time. And there's a documentary coming out. I know this has nothing to do with sports, but there's a documentary coming out about Mrs. Doubtfire.
Aubrey Koontz (56:36.942)
Mm-hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (56:49.87)
Mm.
Jeremy Lesniak (56:49.967)
which is what, a 90 minute movie. They have something like 40 to 50 hours of Robin Williams film that they are going through to produce this documentary for a 90 minute movie because he kept wanting to do different takes on it.
Aubrey Koontz (57:03.035)
my goodness.
Jeremy Lesniak (57:13.861)
That's how I approach forms. I'm not saying I'm the Robin Williams of forms, although depending on how you interpret that statement, it might be accurate. But I like looking at forms and technique in different ways. How do I completely twist this and look at it differently? Fascinating to me. And I bet you do the same thing.
Aubrey Koontz (57:13.934)
That's you film.
Aubrey Koontz (57:30.894)
I'm sorry.
Yeah, I think it's, I mean, it's important to be able to do the same thing differently because inevitably a director wants it different. A director wants it to be able to, well, what if we put the camera over here? It's great. None of our stacking works from there. So let's think of how we could move to get to the position we want or how we can just reorient our angles. Or sometimes they're like, eh, could you come up with something else?
You have ten minutes.
Jeremy Lesniak (58:04.227)
And sometimes they don't tell you what else, right? Sometimes you have to come up with it, is my understanding. Yeah. So there's some improv, there's some creativity. There's some of it.
Aubrey Koontz (58:14.22)
for sure. I'm just not as good at it. I personally do not enjoy coming up with the fight scenes. I have to do it sometimes. We do it in training, we do it in other scenarios. That's not my strong suit as the not imaginative, not creative. Some people, just, they're whipping it out like, okay, so you do a punch and you're gonna block like this and twist it this way and it might be perfectly...
Jeremy Lesniak (58:21.752)
Okay, all right, I can see that.
Jeremy Lesniak (58:37.178)
Hmm.
Aubrey Koontz (58:43.544)
Practical it might not be practical at all, but they came up with it really fast right now. like, okay Somebody's gonna do a hook punch. I'd probably do a wedge block right then a hook and a knee That's my default friend. I want a wedge block hook me. That's just my go-to I'm a small person. I got to get it and take the wins where I can which I think
Jeremy Lesniak (59:01.711)
Yeah, it's effective. Can't argue that. It works.
That's right.
Aubrey Koontz (59:11.982)
is practical for both martial arts and self-defense. Learning what your body does the best. How your body moves. It's not going to be the best thing for me to try to kick a 6'3 guy in the face from standing. Right? You know, I got to take the wins where I can. If I get in and stay in, I'm probably getting picked up or grappled or taken to the ground. So I got to... Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak (59:38.447)
Kick him in the knee first and then kick him.
Aubrey Koontz (59:40.78)
Get in, get my digs, get out. It's important to know your capabilities and your strengths and play to them and try to minimize your weaknesses. It's true in stunts, true in martial arts, probably true in interior design, probably true at church. Take advantage of your skills and abilities that you've been given and try to use them in the best possible ways you can.
Jeremy Lesniak (59:42.715)
That's right. That's right.
Jeremy Lesniak (59:58.384)
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:00:09.133)
sure. If people want to find you online, how would they do that? Socials or web or anything like that?
Aubrey Koontz (01:00:15.758)
So Instagram is probably the most public thing that I have. It'll just be at AubreyKuntz.4. You can look at Ronin Stunt Company. We're on all major social media platforms that I'm aware of. believe we have Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, probably. We have our website, RoninStuntCompany.com. There we have...
our personal links for all the team members of our IMDBs, our stunt reels, our stunt listing profiles. That'd probably be the most cohesive place to keep up on what we're doing.
Jeremy Lesniak (01:00:57.369)
We'll get all that stuff linked up in the show notes and, you know, Aubrey, I'm going to kick it back to you to close in just a moment. Audience. It's quite a ride, right? Here's what I'd like to ask all of you. I'd like you all to spend just a few minutes in acknowledgement of this episode, thinking for. Just a little bit. What is it you do that could be a little more?
Play to the crowd, play to the audience. I'm not saying that you go into your next class and you spend the whole hour trying to sell your forms or your self-defense sets or anything and embarrassing yourself and then coming back and telling your instructor it's my fault. But I think that thought process has some value for sure. So check that out and check out whistlekickmarshwarzradio.com. Transcript, links, photos, all the stuff from this episode. Aubrey sent over some stuff. We'll get that all in there. And while you're there, make sure you sign up.
for the martial arts radio newsletter. Get notified of every new episode right in your inbox. can click to it right from there, as well as behind the scenes stuff and other bonuses you're not going to find anywhere else. And it's free. It's free. Why would you not do it? It's completely free. You know what else is great? Kataro. Not free, but WK10 saves you 10 % on the autism awareness belt or any of the other great custom made stuff that they do over there. Thank you to Kataro for supporting us, k-a-t-a-a-r-o.com.
Aubrey, how do we close today? What do you want to say?
Aubrey Koontz (01:02:29.25)
Well, I'd say my probably my one of my biggest tips for stunts, martial arts, anything you're working on, film yourself. Film it. It's awkward. Go back and watch it and be like, why do I stand like that? Why are my hands like that? I dropped my hands when I did that specific kick or that specific move. Need to make sure I keep them up. Film yourself. Check on what you're doing. Keep it. And then next year.
next month, next week, film it again and compare and see the growth that you've made. And it can be very encouraging when you're starting to wonder like, man, what's the point of this? You can see the progress that you've made and see how you've improved. So I think filming is a great way to see your progress, see how you're looking if you are catering towards a live demonstration of some sort, making sure you're seeing how it's going to sell or look to an audience is
a very important thing. And if that's not your thing at all, still good for self reflection on your improvement over time and seeing things you need to work on. But thank you so much for having me today. I'm always happy to talk about stones, happy to talk about martial arts.