Episode 958- Hanshi Al Wharton
In today's episode Jeremy sits down in person and chats with Hanshi Al Wharton while at Uechi-Con 2024.Hanshi Al Wharton - Episode 958
SUMMARY
In this episode of Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, host Jeremy engages with Hanshi Al Wharton, exploring his extensive martial arts journey that began in the late 1960s. They discuss the evolution of martial arts training, the importance of commitment, and the blending of different styles. Hanshi Wharton shares insights on equity within martial arts, the impact of tournaments, and the significance of teaching with love. The conversation emphasizes the importance of basics, maintaining enthusiasm, and the philosophical aspects of martial arts training, including the metaphor of the mountain and the distinction between conviction and convenience.
TAKEAWAYS
• Martial arts is a journey of continuous learning and growth.
• Equity in martial arts creates a wholesome environment for practitioners.
• Commitment to training can lead to profound personal development.
• Different martial arts styles can complement each other when blended thoughtfully.
• Teaching with love enhances the learning experience for students.
• Basics are essential for building a strong foundation in martial arts.
• Maintaining a beginner's mind allows for ongoing discovery and insight.
• Conviction in training leads to deeper understanding and fulfillment.
• Tournaments can foster community and awareness among different martial arts schools.
• The metaphor of the mountain illustrates the diverse paths in martial arts.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and Background
03:23 Martial Arts Journey Begins
06:20 Experiencing Equity in Martial Arts
08:04 Training Intensity and Commitment
10:36 Exploring Different Martial Arts Styles
14:06 Blending Martial Arts Techniques
20:00 Evolution of Training Philosophy
21:15 Impact of Tournaments on Martial Arts Culture
23:43 Teaching and Training in Bermuda
26:17 Reflections on Martial Arts Development
28:44 Expressing Martial Arts
31:58 The Mountain Metaphor in Martial Arts
35:19 The Importance of Basics
Show Notes
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Show Transcript
Jeremy (00:00.276)
All right, everybody. Welcome. It's another episode of Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio on today's show. I'm joined by Hanshi Al Wharton. Thank you for being here, sir.
Jeremy (02:22.932)
If you're new to what we do, please check out whistlekickmarshallartsradio .com for every episode we've ever done. is episode 900 and who knows what? I don't know. Andrew might know. 958 maybe? knew before I did, right? Because you're watching or listening to this later. And of course, all the things that we do to connect, educate, and entertain the martial artists of the world can be found at whistlekick .com.
Thanks for being here. That's impressive. It's like martial arts, right? You just keep showing up. If you go back to the early episodes, I was very much a white belt. OK. It was sometimes people will, you know, as new people find the show, once in a while someone will email me and they say, you know, I watched a new one. Yeah. And I listen to because we need to do video in early days. I listen to an old one. You've gotten a lot better. And that's the way Masalat should be.
It's a way of life and it's a progression from Ju -Q to Judean. And that's all of the progression for sure. So what's your Ju -Q journey started when, where, why? Yeah, that started back in 1969 in Boston. A couple days ago. A couple days ago. Boston, Massachusetts. I'd always had a, you know, as a 20 year old at that time.
a feeling of what is this karate all about? That's all I heard anyway, was karate. And what's that all about? It was so mystical. And then I happened to be walking along Hancock Street in Boston, and I looked up, and split the glass window, and I saw karate, Madison Academy of Karate. And I just thought, I've got to get in there and do something, know, sign up, see how it is. And they asked me to
to just do this movement. So I did the movement and they said you can sign up. That was your test to sign up? was my test. Could you punch with a little bit rotation? I'm coordinated or have any problems. And that was it from then on. I just trained four times a week. So I have to ask, because you don't
Jeremy (04:51.38)
I've lived in New England my whole life. You don't have a Boston accent. No, I don't. No, have a my accent is actually a mixture. I was born in the West Indies and sent kids and then my aunt and uncle, they brought me to Bermuda. OK, when at age 11. And then I picked. So even the Bermudian accent didn't take ownership.
And then I lived in Boston for about five years. Back to Bermuda, so I've got a mixture of... You do, and I can hear little bits, you know, the way those Rs round off at the end. And now I'm in the UK. So... Right. then when we met a few minutes ago, I just assumed you would have a British accent and you didn't. And went, this is going to be interesting.
You started karate in late 60s in Boston. know, not that Boston has really ever been the roughest place on earth, but I would imagine in the 60s as a man of color coming from over, you know, over some, some water. I don't know if we call it overseas, but international was your interest in training self -defense? No, it wasn't, you know, at that age, at that time for me personally, my experience up to that
point was not one of
being involved in a lot of racism and that kind of thing. You know, the only way I started to wake up to racism was going to the film, the movie cinema, and looking at some of Sidney Poitier's movies, Under the Yum Yum Tree, and these types of, you know, films. And then I started to wake up, there's...
Jeremy (06:55.22)
things that are not quite as equal as you think. So that was my first.
We had a conversation with some of the folks who tested as masters on Thursday night. We did this last night. And one of them brought up the idea of equity and that martial arts was in their mind, one of the few places that they see equity. And it's really gotten me thinking that I noticed this quite a bit. Was that your experience when you started training? Of course. Once I started, I didn't.
feel or sense any kind of inequity. So it was quite wholesome to me. of course, I thought that it was just the one martial art. thought karate was karate. didn't know there were many different styles of karate. Fortunately, I picked a good one. did. You did. Part of a good group of some good people. We're having an absolute blast this weekend here.
Did you fall in love with it immediately? I had to have because I started off and I did like four classes a week. Really? Okay. And I had instructors. My first instructor was Jim Maloney and Victor Moulton, Bob Campbell, Buzz Durkin, these types of people. They were all there at the Rubisa. And
Sensei Madsen was always there, but he came on board when you were like Greenbelt, when you were Goku, then you can go to his classes. He was doing more of an advanced class. so my two main instructors in Weichi, Jim Maloney and George Madsen, my two, and now George Madsen, because he's like 86, 87 years old.
Jeremy (09:01.618)
and look at it. You wouldn't know it looking at him. So I like to look at people like that and think, hmm, that's what I like to be. You know, so.
Yeah, I'm very happy to have done four classes a week. you're kind of all in at that point. Conviction. Personified. Is that how you are with other things too? Yeah, well even in my...
Jeremy (09:34.992)
electrical business when I was involved in that in the early days all in, you know, so I tried to do everything all in Weichi, my electrical business, and then I also did the Kung Fu. I this is news. I did Kung Fu one year into Weichi. I don't know the student friend.
From Africa and he had seen a demonstration He came to me and he said well, I saw this demonstration. It was really great that they want me to come by on Monday night You come with me sure Okay, because their classes are at 11 p Anyway, we got there Looked at this up seven flights of stairs my G small room
I looked, I thought, I like what I see. And I want to do that. So at that point, I had the choice to cut back on my four times a week and maybe do two times with them. They did three times a week. And I decided I'm still doing my four times and I'm going to do the three times. So you're training seven times a week. That's what I do.
I'm wondering, Boston, Kung Fu, that time, who were you training with? There aren't a lot of options. In Boston? Yeah. In Chinatown. Yeah, OK. Yeah. most of these masters, you would never know, they're like a chef or something like that. And so my teacher, he's passed away now.
Jeremy (11:36.308)
He had this class that's 11 p on Monday, 11 p on Saturday, and 3 p on Thursday afternoon. Now the average person couldn't make those classes. And because of the way that I was living there in Boston, I had the time. It wasn't really conducive to my lifestyle with wife and so forth.
But the passion was there, I had to do it. And the styles are so different. This one was northern Shaolin Kung Fu. And I'm doing Weihsi Wu, which is a southern style of Kung Fu, really. They're so vastly different. I wasn't sure if this was gonna turn into, know, after 900 and however many episodes, sometimes they connect.
And I thought, is this going to connect back to Bows and Mark? We've had some episodes that have talked about her. So the the northern versus the southern Weichi versus you Mantis. Did you say northern Mantis? Northern Shaolin. they different enough that it was so different that it was easy or they different enough that it was difficult?
to do both. No, they were just difficult enough to separate. And so I made the decision right away not to tell any instructor at RACI that I did this and this instructor that I did this. So I kept them both separate. Neither one knew. Do they figure it out? At some point down the road, a few people started to figure it out because I had to compete in tournaments and stuff like that.
But, hey, I think that's the only way you can give each system what's due or what is required of each system without comparing prematurely. So you have to take on board what are the principles that make this system work and this system work. You can't do too many systems, but maybe a couple you can do.
Jeremy (14:06.436)
When did you start to notice them kind of blending for you? Because I'm sure eventually you started pulling this together. and in the back of my mind, know, decisions made early in your mind is very important. So I decided when these two will harmoniously blend on their own without me prompting them, then that's when it'll happen.
It's still doing that today. It's still blending. So if we see your Weichi, if we watch you do Sun -Chen -Kata, is it going to look a little more Chinese than maybe some of the other I had a... In San Francisco, I went to do an electrical seminar and there was this Tai Chi person that I always seen in the magazines that he had a peculiar kind of Tai Chi.
system that he created and I thought I'd like to meet this person. I met him and he took back to his place and we started talking about karate, tai chi, kung fu and he asked me to do a bit of my karate form and then a bit of my kung fu form and then
He afterwards, said, how do you change your body like that? How's that? Because I want to be true to the karate and I want to be true to the kung fu. While there are some things that are going to slip through and blend and sort of tie in.
that's just gonna be my personality, it's gonna be me. And I can't avoid that at this stage. Yeah, I've done a lot of cross training and I spent some time in Taekwondo, in ITF Taekwondo, which has, they call it sine wave, this up and down movement pattern. I spent a lot of time trying to make what I did look like Taekwondo, but it always came through as karate and I was.
Jeremy (16:24.274)
very fortunate that the taekwondo instructor I trained with had also started in karate. So he would say, no, but I do like what you're doing. Yeah, you know, I did three things, I a lot more.
Jeremy (16:42.696)
going back to Bermuda after doing my time here with Weichi and northern Shaolin, then going back to Bermuda.
At that time, the predominant styles were Shotokan and Goju -Ru, and not much else.
Jeremy (17:07.155)
So after a year or so, I started to put on tournaments and these kinds of things. long had you been in the US training before you went back to Bermuda? I was back to Bermuda in 75. OK. So five years, Yeah. And I said, OK. I had introduced my brother to a Shotokan master in Boston. And so he was involved with.
for school in Bermuda with Shotokan. It intrigued me, Shotokan. I thought, hmm, let me do it. At least do some parts of it. I can't do the whole system, but I can get the flavor, the essence of the system, what it is all about. And it is harder system than Weichi. What do you mean by that? Well, Weichi, by its name, Pangai Nun, is hard and soft. So Shotokan.
think the way that I viewed it. When I did Weichi, I was sort of like, my focus was intense. It was like deep. when I did Northern Shaolin, I was like, broad, this expanse. I want to jump high, kick, sweep, do all kinds of stuff. And then when I did Shotokan, I was like,
break down the door. I want to just go in hard. What was really interesting was as you walked through those three, I could feel your energy change. Okay. Yeah, that was really kind of cool. Did you pick up on that? Yeah. Yeah. And Andrew's over there for those of you watching. Yeah, you kind of switched modes. And that's something that in my experience, I've been training over a while, I don't know too many people who can
do that, make that switch that quickly. It's usually very difficult. Anybody else ever told you that that's, that is an uncommon thing that you have? The person that I told you in Chicago that I did, he mentioned it. Sure, sure. I'm sure people mentioned these things, but I don't pay a lot of attention. So you're training now, is it still these compartmentalized things? Do you still make an effort to keep things separate?
Jeremy (19:33.754)
Not as much, not as much because now I've evolved to a place where I really don't need to keep them sub. I should try to blend them more because you you've only got so much time on the planet and you want to blend them so that they all start to express you or you can express yourself through them.
So whether it's Weichi which is predominant because that's what I'm fully ranked in and so forth. The Kung Fu, I never reached the highest level, but I had enough of it to understand. And the Shotokan, same thing, Chen style Tai Chi, Bagua, these things, they all tie together.
and they all blend and allow me to shape myself. When we go back to, and I wasn't around, but I've talked to enough people who were, talk about the martial arts culture in the 70s in the States, there wasn't a lot of cross training. It was kind of the beginning of the dojo wars, dojo storming, right? Like this sort of thing.
But you went back to Bermuda, was it like that there too? Was it very siloed that people kept to themselves? Very much so. Very much so. And the Bruce Lee era was just coming into play. so...
Jeremy (21:15.144)
There wasn't a lot of cross -training or any cross -training at that point. So you start promoting tournaments that that almost seems like it might've had some additional motivation for some of these schools. If they're keeping to themselves and you're hosting a tournament, now they don't just want to win. They want to win for their style, their school. So yeah, I had to, after that, even that cycle, tournaments evolved over years.
I would start with posters and it surprised me actually as to the number of schools there were in Bermuda. 21 square miles, small place. I've been there. Yeah. It's a cool place. Good, yeah. But on my poster, I would have like 25 schools invited. That's a lot of schools or branches of
of the Goju, the Shotokan, the Kung Fu, Wing Chun came into the picture and so forth. So that was quite a blend of schools in Bermuda. So I'm sure worldwide it's the same thing. And what did...
What did those tournaments do for the martial arts culture in Bermuda? Well, in the early days, of course, it made people more aware. Very exciting back in the early days because, you know, people are there now, you know, they line up and you see the different schools, different uniforms, you know, and everyone's proud of their school and they're representing. Today it's a lot different, not as much.
not as much that same sense of...
Jeremy (23:13.76)
it's not there. don't think as much. How long were you putting on tournaments? My last tournament was like my 13th or 14th annual. I might have skipped one year here and there, but yeah. And what were you doing for your training there? Were you teaching? Did you have a school? Were you training under somebody else? No, I teach them. But I got back to Bermuda.
I initially taught the Kung Fu because the Kung Fu was the thing that Bruce Lee and that people seemed attracted to that a lot more. So I started with the Kung Fu and after about a year in...
Jeremy (24:04.872)
someone came and introduced themselves to me and said, look, I hear you do wei chi. Could you start at school in wei chi? Any person then? Okay, because I was already doing the kung fu three times a week.
and I'm married. Okay. So I did the wait seat and it was twice a week. Same space? Ran it out of the same space? No. Two different locations? separate locations, At that time, yeah, two separate locations. Actually, I never did it in the same place. I always had two separate locations.
Why? Was that conscious? That's just the way it worked out and subconsciously I didn't mind. guess that's the way I probably wanted it anyway. Yeah, it's as you know, you've said you didn't use this word, but inevitably with enough time, stuff's going to start to blur together. And I agree with that. That makes sense. But I don't know that I've ever talked to anyone who had two or more distinctly different
martial art systems that kept them different as Well, actually, maybe, in all fairness, it was done because that's all I was able to do. You know, I wasn't able to do more of anything in that one facility until I took over that facility. you were limited by when it available. understand. And then I had this other facility with the Weichi, which was quite nice, nice little...
place and it blended in quite nicely so I didn't mind it. was out of the way mind you, but it happened.
Jeremy (25:59.388)
And if we were to go back and kind of sit on the outside and watch you as a martial artist and how you're developing with what you do during that time, what would we be seeing? What changed for you as a practitioner?
Jeremy (26:17.46)
as a practitioner after or early stage or late stage. I guess through that time, long did you live in Bermuda during that? Well from 75, 76 until a year ago. okay. Okay, so that's a long time. And up until a year ago, were you teaching still? No, I actually...
Howdy.
kind of sending away. was going to move from the Bermuda to the UK in 2014 -15. And that's when I had a big gathering, happy short films of the past 20 years and all of that. And... Retirement. I knew retirement from I much retired, moved here about 10 years ago. I moved to the UK, but...
My partner in business, he passed away. I went back to try to salvage that. It just never worked out. COVID came along and all of that. just, really COVID drew out a lot of plans. Yeah, yeah. And then while I've been here in the UK though, I haven't had a lot of success in getting invitations to train or teach at different dojo.
So just recently, actually, I decided I'm going to do my own thing again. I only have a few years left, but I can probably do it effectively. Let me do that. this October. Is that a reflection of. Martial arts in the UK or the UK overall, I don't have a lot of experience, you know, than once. Yeah, I don't know why. Really, to be honest, I don't know why I'm really in the UKF.
Jeremy (28:17.19)
I'm the highest ranking person in the UK and in Bermuda. So I don't know why someone would say, would you come to my church and teach the class? I don't know. It's not up to me to even figure out. So all I can do now is I'll do my own thing and I'll express it the way that I have evolved. And it'll be a blend of the Weichi.
and I'll also teach a couple of the kung fu forms and so forth. You just used a word that I've heard used a few times as we've been here this weekend that I don't generally hear with martial arts and that's express. Express. Express. Expressing the movements. Yeah. Is that a Weiji thing? No. I don't know. I don't know, but it could be, but you know, it's for...
Whoever you speak to that recognizes that there is something within them that they would like to.
Jeremy (29:26.42)
teach or show, you demonstrate. It's a feeling and understanding that one would have. And how you express, how do I express my Weichi, Kung Fu, Tai Chi.
How do I express it?
Jeremy (29:52.018)
on a one on one.
How do I express it? Teaching you, let's say, as a white belt. You want to learn Weichi. It has to be Weichi. Yeah, I you Weichi. And then if I teach you, if you were a Kung Fu, I have to teach you Kung Fu.
Jeremy (30:15.536)
If none of that bothered you, and you were just wanting to learn something, I'll teach you what I have and I'll express it the way that I would express it. I like that word. do because it suggests that even within a system where there's rigidity, the form is done in this way, it still acknowledges some individualization. And I think that that's
something that I appreciate. And I've trained at schools that would never use that word, that would never acknowledge that. In fact, they want the opposite. And to be direct, those tend to be schools that come from a mainland Japanese lineage versus the Okinawan. maybe you're right in a way in the sense of someone asked me about what is it like to be ranked judang?
because judan is rank, you go from jiu -jitsu to judan. And judan, if I look at all the judans in this system,
you couldn't find two alike. They're all different. They all express their own thing. You can still see the similarities. Of course. But you very well can see the differences. Absolutely. Absolutely. And we all walk different paths up the mountain. you express what you came through. I've always appreciated that metaphor of the mountain. And for the audience, it might be unfamiliar.
If you see the metaphor differently, let me know. But I was taught we're all at different points around the base of the mountain and what we see looks so different. But the higher we go, the more we can... you're over there and it starts to look more similar. That's right. Absolutely. How much more mountain do you have? Well, in this system, so to speak, I have no more mountain. I have sky. have...
Jeremy (32:27.944)
more. You know, there's a lot more. So I'm at the base of the top of the mountain.
So this is more spiritual, this is more physical. Okay, so is that what keeps you motivated? yeah, it keeps me motivated because otherwise if you feel like you have accomplished something, you've reached the pinnacle of something, you may not want to, you know, just slacken off, you don't want to continue. But in all of my training from Jiu -Jitsu to Judo, every rank that I went through,
knee cue, sand cue, all the way, go cue, all the way to e cue. When I got e cue, I was the worst sand cue. I was like a good sand cue or knee cue, but the worst e cue, very sub -basement level sand cue or e cue. So, look at that everywhere. Showdown, knee down. Become knee down. I'm a good showdown.
But you have to grow into it. Otherwise you give yourself growing space. Yeah, I didn't even want to be Judean. Why?
You know, I was happy with 8th Dan. I felt 8th Dan is a good rank. I'm happy with that. But then I was invited to, and I've never asked for an invitation to grade. always been invited. I asked, I bid the 8th Dan, and then you start to settle in with the 9th Dan. That's why there's time between ranks and grades. And then, now, Judean.
Jeremy (34:19.462)
And so I'm just a baby, and it makes sense. But that's such a interesting concept for me, this idea that, you know, right, because when you're lower down on the mountain, you can't see the contrast of the people beyond you. And that's something that as an instructor, I find really interesting trying to convey things to my students and having to remember, hey,
They're not here. So they they simply have to trust me. They don't they don't have the context for a lot of what I asked them to do. They they show up with faith. That's right. You have to you know, I'm doing my seminar. My seminar is on basics and insights. I couldn't just say basics. Because there's no growth in that just on the surface. So I say and insights because insights come from repeating your basics over time.
And so I, when someone hits basics, they think boredom. They think, geez, I've got to do that again. You and you block out what it is he's trying to put in there. So if you do your basics with a beginner's mind at all times throughout Judean, Jiu -Jitsu to Judean, keep a beginner's mind every time you go back to basics.
Insight will definitely happen. It has to happen. Understanding is only, you know, let's go three steps. Knowledge, understanding, wisdom. That's the growth. Break that down for me. Okay, so knowledge. Because a lot of people would use those words interchangeably. Yeah, but knowledge is just information. It's just information that you get and it's quite in...
in today's age versus when I started. knowledge has expanded profoundly. So then knowledge, understanding. Understanding comes through repetition of this information that I've gotten. keep repeating that. And then suddenly understanding is revelation. So revelation is, aha, that's what that means.
Jeremy (36:46.695)
You go on. Now, wisdom is like the who, what, when, where, why, and how you do stuff. And being wise about it. You're being, you know, okay, I'll do this at this time, not that time. This is how I'll do it, not that way. You when, where, why. And so therefore, wisdom is application. So you've got information, revelation, application.
That's the three steps. So if I can, if I might extend your metaphor and apply it to basics, knowledge is I've been taught how to do the punch. I know it exists. Understanding is I can do the punch on my own and wisdom is I know when to do the punch.
Jeremy (37:36.053)
We should probably end there. was good job me. Yeah. And the reason I wanted to take it there is you made a statement that so many people find basics boring. There's this, you know, bell curve, right? And I see an inverted bell curve when it comes to basics. New students.
They're happy. But they keep going and their interest in basics just drops. And then they're going, come on, give me something new. But they hang out there long enough that it comes back up and they go, Because what I have found, and I share this, I think we've talked about this show on the show a number of times, basics or fundamentals, foundation.
If you're going to build something tall, if we go back to that mountain metaphor, how do you build the tallest possible mountain? You have the strongest possible foundation. And if that's your basics, your base, if I want to go further, I need to spend more time down here. And when I connected those dots, I here we are now. I've been training a few decades and I spend most of my time taking a kick, a block, a punch.
And how do I use the word insights? Yeah. How do I pick that apart in a way that makes me go, there's the revelation. And just to, for those of you out there, if you're, if you're in that bottom of the bell curve, right? If you're, if you're going to class and you're saying, my God, I know how to do this kick. I know how to do this punch. I am so bored. am so frustrated. You don't. And I would encourage you.
to recognize that there's always more knowledge. Always. There's always more knowledge, which means there's always more understanding and always more More knowledge than you can even shake a stick at. The knowledge is there. And now you have to be wise also in how you choose that knowledge as well. When you actually, as you go through this Jew Q2Judan space,
Jeremy (39:51.666)
you gain insight, gain understanding, revelation, wisdom, and now you can go back and pick and choose. This is reminding me of a moment, it's as a kid training, one of the most pivotal moments, I think, in hindsight for my upbringing as a martial artist. was probably seven or eight, maybe eight.
And I remember the very first black belt that my instructors promoted. He had a black belt in an existing school. So he, I think it was about four years after training that he earned his black belt. And I remember my mother saying, let's go congratulate Jean. We went up and I remember her saying, how does it feel? Because, you know, I'd been, let's see, four years. So I was a blue.
felt at that point. She had started training. She's probably a yellow belt, maybe a blue belt. And he said,
realize how much I don't know. Yeah. And talk about talk about a revelation, an epiphany, and that has stuck with me. It's close to 40 years. And I think that statement more than anything else I've heard as a martial artist. Yeah, that's, that's having the empty cup, the empty mind. The only thing that you can have a full cup in
is love, generosity, kindness, these kinds of things. You can have a full cup because every time you try to pour something in, it spills out. It sort of reflects, right? But when it comes to lots of other things, you can't take on board what's coming in that's helpful if your cup is already full and it's full of all kinds of negative things.
Jeremy (41:51.826)
self -promotion and all of this. So it's good to be empty, have an empty cup, open mind. Even when you do your kata, it's just open. I'm not trying to even do things where, know, there's someone coming at me with a knife and I'm gonna do a block. I'm doing my block, but it stays open.
If you want to step in with your knife, it's fine. I'm doing the kata. The kata is just for me. It's for how I grow and how I understand. Take it back to that statement that you said. The only thing you can have a full cup of is love. That's not the first time you've said that. No. No. Speak on that. That is a powerful statement and I want to make sure because I don't want to miss it. I forget the audience at this point. Yeah. Talk about that. Well, think about it.
Love is everything. And if you can't share love, even a white belt, you know, an instructor and a white belt that you're teaching, the white belt. He may be teaching, he's got his empty cup, and you're teaching him
technical things, skill things.
But if you teach it with love, if you express love while you're teaching it, his absorption is going to be even greater. And so definitely you being a person of love will move many mountains. It's not something I have analyzed even for myself, but it's something that I know love.
Jeremy (43:53.48)
gratitude, kindness, these kinds of things. You wanna keep your cup full. We were having a conversation last night with someone and we've continued the conversation, the two of us, this notion of fun within martial arts. the fun changes over time, but fun being, my contention that fun being a necessary component in the way you teach. But what I'm wondering is I'm hearing you.
is fun merely a way of implementing love. If you're teaching with love, that suggests a lot of things. Empathy. You're doing whatever you need to to reach that person and sometimes that is fun but sometimes it's not. But it can be always be love. Yeah you've always you know tough love. Yeah sure got a lot of that in my day. It's just the love so.
love conquers all. And I think it's a good way for people to have the backbone of whatever they teach should be through love.
Jeremy (45:08.532)
What are your martial arts goals, seems like an overly simplified word, but what are you, we'll run with it. What goals do you have for your training, school? Goals, I tell students from time to time.
Jeremy (45:28.638)
goals. Someone said, my goal is to become showdown.
or knee down or go down or whatever.
And my answer is just do what's required to go from EQ to showdown. Just do the requirements of your system or whatever. Just do it diligently and showdown will become a consequence. Don't have to think about goals. Don't be chasing the goal. Just chase what you have to do and let the goal be a consequence.
of what you do. So if you, it'll automatically be a consequence. I've never had to ask for one grading from Chu -Q to Chu -Dan. I just did whatever Sanse Maloney told me to do. Bob Campbell, George Matson, I just did it diligently and I tried to seek understanding and seek wisdom. Find value in the process rather than. and just do it.
And then when you go up for grading, it's not if you're going to get graded. I've done everything you've asked me to do. I think I'm doing it quite well. I expect to be graded. So that takes a lot of mystery out of it. This is a question I asked some of the folks last night. How does your enthusiasm
Jeremy (47:08.212)
for your training now compared to your enthusiasm at points in the past? you know, as a 25 or eight year old training, it's so much information. So much you think understanding or you're chasing understanding. You want to understand more and more.
The wisdom part is not even kicked in yet. It's just understanding and knowledge. And you're chasing that. I've done that most of my life, chasing that. The wisdom part, some people have it early. I personally, not that early, but...
the enthusiasm has always been there. And because I always feel there's more, I don't have enough understanding. My cup of understanding is half full, it's not there. So when you keep your understanding cup half full or even less, you have room for more understanding.
If you're understanding, you think you know it all. Well, good for you. And in that moment, you do. understand everything that you are capable of. At that moment. That's why I say to a class, if I go to a class, OK, the purpose of today's class is to defeat yesterday's understanding. know? Hold up. That.
Wow. Yeah. And that would be the purpose of every class is to defeat yesterday's understanding. So you're open. I'm open for new revelation. I'm open for everything. Don't deny yourself that opportunity.
Jeremy (49:18.056)
I think we have an excess of sound bites for this episode. It's not too often that one of them punches me like that, that I go, wait, hold on, you're not just watching or listening to this, you're part of it. Okay, hold on Jeremy, do your job. That's kind of how I'm feeling right now, which is a cool feeling and is the way I approach my martial arts. I've never articulated it that well, but it's also the way I approach this.
Right. I try to make sure that every time I do an episode, I'm a little better. You know, we talked about that before we started recording, right? You know, bring in that that show shin, that beginner's mind to everything, that white belt mentality, generally what we call it on the show. And that's what allows people to go from convenience to conviction. That's one of the C's in my basics. So you have a lot of students that
they train from an angle of convenience or I don't have anything else on tonight, whatever, it's convenient. Even coming to the seminar is convenient. I can do this. But conviction is different. Conviction is I will do this in spite of that. This is what I want to do. This is what I must do. And I will do it.
And so conviction and convenience cannot reside in the same space. At some point, one has to go. And that's a...
So very important.