Episode 956- Mrs. Jay Schindler
In today's episode Jeremy chats with Instagramer and Korean martial arts practitioner Jay Schindler, from Houston Texas.Mrs. Jay Schindler - Episode 956
SUMMARY
In this conversation Jay Schindler discusses her experiences in martial arts, including her journey from ballet to martial arts and her TikTok videos recreating martial arts moves. She also talks about the mental and physical challenges of martial arts, the importance of delayed gratification, and the sense of community among martial artists. She shares her background and thoughts on the differences between Tang Soo Do and Soo Bahk Do, the history of these martial arts styles, and how the emphasis on techniques in Soo Bahk Do has shaped her training. She also touches on the spiritual aspect of martial arts and the different approaches to training in traditional martial arts and sport-focused Tae Kwon Do. She explains why she continues to train in martial arts, highlighting the sense of community and personal growth it provides. Lastly, she discusses the challenges she has faced as a female martial artist and the importance of supporting and uplifting each other in the martial arts community.
TAKEAWAYS
* Martial arts can be mentally and physically challenging, but it also provides a sense of community and personal growth.
* Delayed gratification is an important aspect of martial arts, as progress takes time and effort.
* Different martial arts styles have different approaches, with traditional martial arts focusing on the spiritual aspect and sport-focused styles like Tae Kwon Do emphasizing competition.
* The history of martial arts is rich and diverse, with different styles originating from various countries and cultures.
* Martial arts can be a transformative experience, helping individuals develop discipline, confidence, and physical fitness.
* Effective movement in martial arts involves a balance of power and softness.
* The martial arts community is a supportive and compassionate space.
* Female martial artists often face unique challenges and should be uplifted and supported.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and Overview
03:07 Jay's Journey from Ballet to Martial Arts
09:31 The Importance of Delayed Gratification in Martial Arts
19:33 The Spiritual Aspect of Martial Arts
30:00 Exploring the History of Tang Soo Do and Soo Bahk Do
35:29 Different Approaches to Training in Traditional Martial Arts and Tae Kwon Do
38:34 Exploring the Differences Between Soo Bahk Do and Tang Soo Do
41:24 The Importance of Community in Martial Arts
44:12 Challenges and Triumphs of Female Martial Artists
Show Notes
To contact Jay Schindler:
Instagram: @jgirlcook
TikTok: @jgirlcook
YouTube: @jgirlcook✅Subscribe to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio on the following platforms:
🎧Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3mVnZmf
🎧Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3yHVdHQ
🎧Google: https://bit.ly/3kLSpo8
✅You can find whistlekick on all social media platforms using the handle @whistlekick or visit our website at https://www.whistlekick.com or https://www.whistlekickmartialartsradio.com
Show Transcript
Jeremy (00:02.511)
What's happening everybody? Welcome. This is Whistlekick martial arts radio and I'm joined today by Jay Schindler We're gonna have some fun. I I have a feeling I just I would put money on it. I don't have any money on me, but pretend I had money I'm I'm putting money on it. This is gonna be a good one Glad you're here audience Remember if you're new to the show whistlekick martial arts radio comm transcripts links photos videos all the good stuff all the stuff that we reference in episodes
that you're all in your car and you say, hey, man, I can't take notes while I'm driving because I don't want to die. Well, that's where you go. You go back and then you click on the link and your podcast player and you go to the website and check that out. And of course, whistlekick .com for all the things that we do, the events, the products, training programs, whistlekick Alliance, all the good stuff that we make here at whistlekick for all of you, the traditional martial artists of the world. But Jay, I've been looking forward to talking to you for a while.
Jay (00:59.726)
Yeah, I kind of kept you on your toes too. And said I was gonna come and then didn't. But you know, people are the martial artist thing. You're never gonna know my next move, but I am really happy to be here.
Jeremy (01:01.694)
Yeah, yeah, a little bit.
Jeremy (01:08.183)
are we, are we, are we suggesting that your reschedule had some, some ninja elements to it? that? Okay.
Jay (01:17.298)
absolutely. Martial arts is so mental. So it was about that. It had nothing to do with the fact that I am a disorganized person. And yeah, but no, super glad to be here.
Jeremy (01:29.019)
Awesome, awesome. I've been following you on TikTok for a while, probably as long as I've been on TikTok, which I think is like three years at this point. Which.
Jay (01:41.738)
You were there at the beginning,
Jeremy (01:44.665)
I guess.
Jay (01:45.718)
Yeah, I think that's kind of when I started. Well, I started TikTok trying to just be like comedian because I did comedy in college and I was like, this is what I'm going to do. And then I started watching Cobra Kai like around that time. I had not watched any of the first seasons or anything like that. So, and everyone kept talking about it. So I was like, okay, I'm going to go start watching the show. And I kept seeing people on TikTok do like recreations of dances that they had seen in shows.
And I was like, why not, why not do recreations of like martial arts moves? And so I think my, first biggest video, which was only the third video I posted recreating a Cobra Kai move was Hawk's Superman punch in the mall cafeteria fight scene. I wish I was like super with it and pulled like the episode code right now, but I don't, I just know it's like in the earlier seasons. And, if you look really closely, this is a fun tidbit that nobody knows.
Jeremy (02:44.473)
I think that's the last episode of season two.
Jay (02:47.338)
I think you're right. If you look really closely in that video, I am wearing ballet tights under my jeans because my sister told me to take the ballet class at BYU because it changed her life and it did change my life, but not for good reasons. And I didn't, not really. I just didn't like it. I have so much respect for ballerinas. Like I already did. The bar was already high, but now the bar is like insurmountable. If you ever want to be humbled.
Jeremy (03:07.151)
Okay.
Jeremy (03:16.855)
Is this the literal bar on the side of the room by the mirror? Okay. Is that why it didn't go well? Because the bar was insurmountable.
Jay (03:19.066)
Yes, yes, exactly.
Well, here's the thing. I was like, I've been a martial artist my whole life. Like I will look not stupid. That was what I thought. That's where my expectations were. I didn't think I was going to be good. I was like, I'll just not look dumb. I was wrong. They, my gosh, I can send you the video. I send it to my friends when they're having a bad day. I will. I, you can. It's on TikTok. If you, but you have to scroll down really, really far because for your midterms, you had to be filmed.
Jeremy (03:38.181)
Did you look dumb?
Jeremy (03:42.469)
Can you please? I don't necessarily need to share it with everyone, but I do want to see it. Okay. Okay.
Jay (03:53.55)
for all the things you learned and then you had to assess yourself, which was even worse. I would rather have someone tell me how bad I am than for me have to re -watch the videos of me failing at ballet. I was bad. I was one of the worst ones in the class and it was bad. Most, most, there were like a few girls that were taking repeats, but the worst thing is is you're in a leotard too. So like you already feel awful about how you're doing, but then they put you.
Jeremy (03:53.755)
Mmm.
Jeremy (04:10.383)
Was everyone new to ballet?
Jay (04:22.902)
in a leotard and tights and you feel even worse. And so I would do these Cobra Kai moves after ballet to get my self -esteem back because I'm so fast.
Jeremy (04:33.487)
Hold on, let me do something that I know I can do not terribly.
Jay (04:38.21)
I'm ready.
Yes, sorry, I thought you were about to do something. I hear what you're saying. Yeah, exactly.
Jeremy (04:44.208)
No, I'm not stealing your shtick. you want to do Cobra Kai moves on your episode, that's fine, but I'm not going to do that. I did not show up prepared with any choreography today.
Jay (04:52.884)
Okay, I wish you would.
You know what? I'm really disappointed in you for that, but that's okay. I'll with that slide. Yeah, so I was like I'm gonna do so if you watch those early videos like in parking lots on campus and things like that you will it's I am very white like my legs are translucent, but they're even more translucent in those videos because I have actual pink tights on underneath my jeans and a leotard even but yeah, that's
Jeremy (05:00.886)
Okay, I appreciate that.
Jeremy (05:22.693)
Mm.
Jay (05:25.1)
That's how ballet links into Cobra Kai moves. But they did really, those videos did really good. And it ended up becoming this thing that I couldn't stop doing, because I was becoming a better martial artist from it. You know, if you film yourself doing something, you know, you can critique yourself really well. And as I do these videos and try to get it to look a lot like the shot or the move,
Jeremy (05:39.461)
How so?
Jay (05:51.39)
could see like, okay, I'm doing this wrong, or I want it to look more like this. And also, it was the first show of my generation, like I had grown up watching like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon and like the real martial arts nerdy stuff. But and Karate Kid was in the 80s was the movie that like did bring martial artists together too. But then we had something like that in a long time. And Cobra Kai also brought martial artists together. And so was
a really great way to get martial artists to come and find my account. And then I was just creating this followers of just martial arts nerds and man, there's no better group. There truly is. There's no better people than like a martial arts following crew. And so between getting more followers of not to have more numbers, but to just have a bigger community of martial artists was a drive. And then also seeing myself get better over time.
was a drive. And at this time, I was also training with my instructor in Salt Lake. And so it was just kind of a way to like gamify my training, I think is how I put it. Because training can be like, hard. Well, it's always hard, but it can be intellectually hard, know, and martial arts is very humbling. It is not like ballet. It's a good, well, it's a humbling in a way that I like, I guess.
Jeremy (06:57.691)
Okay
Jeremy (07:05.456)
Jay (07:16.096)
It's what I tell parents when they ask me like, should I my kid in martial arts? I say yes, because it is the best delayed gratification model to ever exist. Like we live in a time that's all about instant gratification, social media is that. And I see these kids who just, even my brothers, my younger brothers.
who are just used to getting it so fast, getting into it. And I work in advertising and we're literally trying, you were taught to try to grab someone's attention in one second because you lose it in one, if not two seconds. Like, and so our whole, everything is going towards that, all media, advertising. And you do not get any instant gratification in martial arts. It's hard. It doesn't come naturally to anyone, which I love because I'm not very coordinated actually.
You're seeing it. No, no. Hold on. You're seeing me at the end of my journey. Not the end. It's not the end. It's the middle. But I'm saying if you would have seen me growing up or if you see me, mm -mm. Like, if you see me try to play golf, it's really funny. It's a fun time, but I look awful. When I... This is good example. When I was young, I ran so awkwardly. My dad... I did not know this until last year.
Jeremy (08:06.686)
Mmm, come on. Come on.
Jeremy (08:16.261)
We're not seeing you at the beginning.
Jay (08:34.53)
My dad wanted to take me to the doctor because he thought something was wrong with me because I ran so awkwardly. My sister likened it to like a drunken baby gazelle. I have really long legs. I still do, comes in handy in sparring, but I couldn't really figure them out. It's like a newborn full. So I've just always been awkward, but I've always wanted it so bad that I'm willing to work hard enough.
make it right and martial arts is great because even those that are coordinated and get it quicker still have to work really hard to get it right and so I felt much more safe and at home feeling like everyone was kind of struggling together even if they were like way better than me at something they were still struggling and you know and so you have a delayed gratification model you have to work really really really really hard to get a little bit better not to get perfect not to get the perfect free throw shot not to get like certain
you work really, really, really hard to get better. And you see this even at like, at least in my favorite arts, like you see this forever. Like after Black Belt, after Dawn, like you're still working your tail off to get better. Even at least like our Grandmaster, even with H .C. Huang, he's still working hard to get better. And he's in his 70s and he's the best martial artist I've ever been able to witness. And so...
I love that. I love that that is being facilitated and being taught still because I think it's like the perfect cure to what's maybe not going great in society right now.
Jeremy (10:11.875)
I agree. I say often that traditional martial arts is like this magic puzzle piece that fits in with whatever is lacking in someone's life, whether it's a small child or an adult. And if you've been training a while, that resonates. People tend to understand what I'm saying there. You mentioned you've been training your whole life. So what does that look like? When did you get started and why? If you were so physically...
Jay (10:35.502)
Yes.
Jeremy (10:38.549)
awkward that there was concern about perhaps your physical development. Why were you in martial arts?
Jay (10:47.218)
So I always did sport. I always loved sports. And so I was doing soccer from four years old and playing pretty much any sport my parents would put me in, I wanted to do. I loved the like social interaction and I loved the mental physical challenge. And then I was, this is so funny, cause it's my seven year old brain. And what stands out is that I was going to Awanas, which is this.
Jeremy (11:05.283)
Mm
Jay (11:16.354)
I think it's Baptist. I'm not sure. It's just this like church group that you meet on Tuesdays and go and play all these games and learn about Jesus. And my sister and I really liked it because we liked the games at the end and we were very competitive. Like I was a really great crowd walker. If anything at seven, I could crowd walk like nobody's business. And I always won that one. And my mom was like, hey, our friends have just started this martial arts class. Do you guys want to try it out? But if you do it, you can't go to a Juana's.
And in my head, I'm like, nothing's going to be Awanas. Like, okay, like I'll try this thing, but I don't think, but I was excited still. Like I thought it'd be cool. And when I grew up in a town of 1100 people, like I'm talking like tiny, tiny. And so it's pretty big when like somebody new comes to town, you know? Well, I went, we did it in the Grange hall, which like we never did it there again, but I remember that that's it was that time.
Jeremy (11:58.811)
Mmm.
Jay (12:15.118)
And I stood in line and there was a lot of new people there that day. Like all my sisters were new and my dad even tried it and we learned front kick that day. And I was like, this is it. Like this, I, there's something about this that really speaks to me.
Jeremy (12:35.001)
Any idea what it was?
Jay (12:39.126)
know, I think part of it was that I'm one of six kids. And it was a moment where like martial arts, even though you're all there together in a room, and there is a community aspect, it is very individual. And I hadn't experienced an individual sport up until that point. And the instructor specifically like made a few notes for me because he could see how excited I was and
very outgoing, I always have been and so I'm like yelling as loud as I was not a kid that you had to try to get to key up or yell, I was like screaming from the first day and I think he saw that excitement. And so he was kind of facilitating it even in the first lesson. And to get that kind of individual attention as someone from six kids and stuff like that. I was like, okay, this is so cool. This is my journey. I don't think I would have articulated this is my journey at seven years old. But that's what I would say it felt like.
me me and my sisters were pretty much dedicated from that day on at least to me and my two older sisters not my oldest we all my family all did it at a time but it was us three and my dad who trained the longest and my old my second oldest sister is very talented martial artist she was kind of the the star and I just remember
She didn't like us to do her things. She didn't like us when she did soccer and then we were like, my gosh, let's play soccer. Or she did this and we're like, my gosh, let's do this. Cause yeah, exactly. And so she kind of thought that's what we were doing when we started like, you guys are just doing this cause I'm doing this. But I think it after a few years, she was like, no, they're doing this cause they like it or else they would have quit by now. And it was fun training as a family and having something.
Jeremy (14:03.268)
Mmm.
Jeremy (14:07.917)
It's pretty common among the older siblings when the younger siblings follow.
Jay (14:30.03)
together. So I think that's another thing that kept us but the funny thing was is, Corinne's four years older than me and she's the second oldest one who's really good. so if you think about the age difference, that's like seven to 11 and or it was 10 to 14. So there were big age gaps then where like I couldn't actually compete with her at the time. I think a good way to articulate this is we were sparring one day.
and I went to punch her and she grabbed my arm. Then I punched her with my right hand, she grabbed my other arm. So I went to knee her and she put my own arms in a low cross to block my own knee. But it was all in real time, I'm telling you. It happened and we both went, my gosh, like whoa. But then of course we're in a traditional art so my instructor's like, get it together. But we can't stop laughing because it was a karate kid moment.
We had to run laps the rest of the class, but it was worth it. Like I'd do it again because it was, but that's like, that was the level where she was at sparring and where I was at sparring, but I didn't know that. I thought I always had a chance when I was younger, which is, but that's my mindset. I think so Corinne is, so Corinne and my dad got their black belt, their dawns first. And we actually trained. So we were tongue -to -toe growing up.
Jeremy (15:40.943)
Are any of them still training?
Jay (15:53.806)
My instructor, they're kind of just an offshoot. They just like stopped going to the Federation events. then, so we went to his instructor to test for our Chodon. Corinne test first, and then I tested for my Chodon two years later and she tested for her E -DON while I tested for my Chodon together. And then our instructor moved to Alaska, of all things. And...
They wanted to run the I did a rod. can't tell you, know, you know, martial artists, it's like where the odds are good with the goods are odd. I don't know. Like they that's an Alaska saying because Alaskans are very strange, but they're the best, coolest people, but they are unique because it takes a special type of person to live. And my dad's from Alaska. So I can say this and I was born in Alaska. So I feel like, you know, I'm allowed. I guess I'm allowed to say this or maybe I'm not, but either way I'm going to.
Jeremy (16:25.691)
I've never heard that, but I like that a lot.
Jeremy (16:36.986)
Yeah.
Okay.
okay.
Jay (16:48.458)
employment. And so, yeah, he left. then at that point, I was kind of going through the like, I want to play other high school sports. My instructor was very demanding. I would say he's very old school. Like, you're doing push ups, if you're not loud enough, you're we are in straight lines. If you don't get there fast enough, we're doing it again. We're doing conditioning classes.
Jeremy (17:14.572)
I know the type.
Jay (17:16.046)
Yeah, this is very much like the Moodle Quan started like, you know, started after the war and then it was taught a lot on the Air Force bases and it reflected as such, you know. And so my instructor was keeping that tradition alive, which I liked. Like I really like having grown up in that. But when you're 14, 15 and your instructor is maybe kind of.
feel like expected a little bit too much from me, like wanting me to take over the school. And like at 15, I just didn't feel, well, I'm a people pleaser. And so I was like, I have to do this or it's gonna die. My dad's like, maybe, maybe just be a teenager. And I'm like, straight up, I didn't know I could do that. So after he left, I just started doing other sports. I'd already been doing them. Cause when you're small town, you do everything. You don't have to try out. just, want you to come. So I was doing all of the sports and this jujitsu instructor moved into our town.
And I was like, well, I guess I'll go try a class. And I was instantly in love. His name is Harry. He is one of the best. Well, yes, I'm in love with Harry in a non -weird way because he's like a grandfather figure to me and is like the sweetest, kindest human. it's a podcast, so I'm really glad that you did clarify that.
Jeremy (18:21.463)
you were in love with Harry or with Jujitsu?
Jeremy (18:30.841)
I had to ask. You made that ambiguous.
Jay (18:38.548)
Harry is like a very, very wholesome was only training like very elite jujitsu and judo athletes, but then felt like he needed to give back to the world. And so he was only charging us enough to pay his rent for like the community center for his classes. And he did Don's on Rue jujitsu, which I'd never heard of before. Which is for those of you don't know is like the Japanese Hawaiian iteration of jujitsu. looks more akin to judo, I would say.
Jeremy (18:43.354)
Hmm.
Jay (19:07.91)
just because there's a lot of throws. They start you out with throws, they're not starting you on the ground as much. And I loved it because there was also a healing aspect. So you had to learn massage for your tests and you had to demonstrate of course all your throws and all your hand techniques and all your kata, but then you also had to do massage. And I loved just the aspect of like you're learning to fight and you're also learning to heal. And...
I also always knew that my ground game was extremely weak and that I wanted to be a more well -rounded fighter. And also the falls and rolls are so fun. And I think every person alive should learn to roll and fall, which came in handy a lot when I did my Cobra Kai and stuff, because there's, you do stunt work, you got to be able to fall and to throw and to be thrown. So I did that till college and then,
I just didn't do anything college for the full - Huh? Except for ballet. Yeah, I did in the end. I started, I think without like getting too into it, I just had kind of a bad taste in my mouth of how things ended with my instructor. And it was just kind of a weird situation towards the end. He was well -meaning, but
Jeremy (20:06.491)
Except for ballet. Except for ballet. You didn't do any martial arts training through college? Okay.
Jay (20:32.81)
I just a lot of pressure and like a little bit of manipulation to try to get me to stay. I didn't like that. And so it was at the point and where my brain development was at the time, too, I could not separate like my love for Tung Sudo and like that negative experience that I had. And so I was like, I'm just gonna stay away from it. Because that's how you solve that uncomfortable feeling is just like, not doing it is what I thought. And then I
Jeremy (20:37.763)
needed a break. Yeah.
Jay (21:00.32)
about like sophomore year, I started to really miss it. Because at that point, I hadn't done Tung Tzu Do for four years, five years. I done Jiu Jitsu, but I hadn't done Tung Tzu Do. So we have family in Utah. And when we travel and visit them growing up, we'd go and see this instructor who lived in Salt Lake who did Tsubak Do. And so I knew there was an instructor in Salt Lake.
So I just reached out to him one day and I said, hey, can I come to a class? And he was like, absolutely. So I rode the front runner up, which is like the train and I went to his class and first thing he said, well, first of all, he lined me up with the Don's and I didn't want to be there. I'm like, put me in the back of the room. I haven't, he's like, no, you're a Don, like you burned it. You have to be the Don. Huh?
Jeremy (21:51.577)
You showed up with your black belt, though. You showed up with your black belt.
Jay (21:55.052)
I'm like, a martial arts uniform I have. what was I, so I like, he puts me in the dog leg goes, okay, everybody get into your splits. And I said, I don't have a splits. What? So I'm getting down as far as I can, but it's like instant sweating bullets. And then the next thing he had us do was, this is an exercise that I love. It's great for building your hip flexors. I love it now. I did it at the time. You sit cross -legged with like, in butterfly position with like your feet together.
And then somebody comes behind you, they put their hands on your shoulders and they step on your knees. And then you have to lift your knees up while they're standing with all their full weight on you. And your hip flexors will cry, quite literally. And he had us do that next. So it's kind of like half a conditioning class. And then we started working material and I was literally crying. You couldn't tell because I was sweating so hard. I, one, I was in pain too.
I did not realize like how much flexibility I had lost, how much muscle I had lost, like my feet hurt really bad. Five. And one thing that if you start as a child martial artist and then you've never taken a break, you like are very humbled by having now just like a normal adult body, especially feet muscles. If you stop for a long period of time, you don't know you have them until you don't have them. And so my feet,
Jeremy (22:59.533)
How many years had it been? Five years.
Jay (23:22.498)
were like hurt so bad, especially by my ankles from like a horse stance, you know, and having just that. And so I left and I was like, I'm never coming back. And then I got on the train and I felt better than I had in a long time. Just that like after martial arts high that you only get from martial arts. And I said, just kidding, of course I'm coming back. And I was pretty sporadic because I was in college and I just wasn't.
Jeremy (23:44.891)
You missed it.
Jay (23:51.02)
I was working through still that kind of pain from how I ended my last martial, like Tung Sido martial arts. And so I just wasn't sure what I was gonna do, but Master Kross was so understanding, super kind. Like invited me over to dinner. His wife cooked me dinner like the first class I ever went to, like, and his kids are just the best kids I've ever met. They're now like my family. I like see them like my little siblings. They're amazing, amazing kids.
And so even that was like keeping me coming back. But I stopped for a while and then I woke up one day and I heard this, heard this voice and it was like, if somebody asks you to do something today, you need to do it. And in my head and like, I, you know, I'm going to BYU, I'm going to a Christian college. And in my head, I'm like, okay, I'm going be asked to serve somebody in some way today, you know, and I'm going to make somebody's life better. Like that's where my...
head goes and then Master Corallis called me and he said, hey, my instructor is going to teach this like breathing healing seminar tonight, you should come up. And I hadn't been up for like probably three months and I was like, okay, because I had had that prompting like if somebody asks you to do something, you do it. And I knew that that was the thing. But I didn't think it was about me. And so I went up and I was I was dealing with like
Jeremy (25:06.255)
Yeah. You said yes. Yeah.
Jay (25:16.632)
I was pretty depressed at the time and felt pretty alone. I'd gone through like a bad breakup and even before the breakup, I was still just like having a hard time. So his instructor teaches this amazing healing breathing seminar that was just phenomenal. As someone with asthma, I don't think I have reached those areas of my lungs since like, I don't know, he's insane. And then he gave this whole little spiel at the end of like,
how beautiful in martial arts and in traditional martial arts especially, it is to experience the spiritual side of existence and how we live in a very secular world that doesn't want to acknowledge any type of spirituality. And as somebody who is a Christian, like it is, I live that way, but to hear somebody talk about it in the same way that I believe in like a martial arts aspect and how at least like our martial arts brings in spirituality.
was so cool. I'm like no wonder I feel so connected to this community because we all agree like in this way and so then Corrella saw when him comes up after the class he's like how'd you like it? I like loved it he goes okay well you're coming for the tournament tomorrow right? And he said what tournament? I was like no I haven't like I'd only gone to probably four classes maybe five classes of his and again hadn't trained for five years. He's like you gotta come, you gotta come. I was like
Jeremy (26:32.634)
What?
Jay (26:44.63)
Okay, and I now know having seen him like fellowship other people that he was gonna ask me that he had it all planned out of like how he was going to do the cell and So I came the next day and I did the tournament I did awful and young I always do awful in like which younger Kata or you know, like I never do very good and but I love it and then
I'm a sparring junkie and I ended up getting first in sparring and which was cool because I hadn't done it for so long. But growing up, we sparred every class and had sparring classes on Saturday where we come and spar for just an hour. And so it was in my blood, you know, and I may not have the best technique or anything, but I have good timing and I have a lot of heart and it invigorated me gave me a little bit of like
my gosh, I am good at this. Like, and I didn't stop from then. I tested for my dawn a few months later, because I, you have to retest for your dawn. Tungstado and Subakdo, I don't know if you're familiar, but they're like cousins. So I'm to give everybody a little history lesson for those who don't know. I love, love, love, love to talk about this. So the Muda Kwan was created in 1945 by Huanqi.
Jeremy (27:52.527)
Okay.
Jeremy (27:57.883)
Mm
Jeremy (28:01.115)
Please do.
Jay (28:08.846)
and it's kind of a mixture of Shotokan, Tai Chi, Shaolin Longfists and a few other styles. He was a huge martial arts nerd. He trained in China during World War II because the Japanese were inhabiting Korea. And so he came, he could finally have his own art once World War II ended, which is why it's 1945, because they weren't a lot of new martial arts before then.
and they called it, he called it the Muda Kwan, but you people know it as Tung Tzu Do. And they named it Tung Tzu Do because even though it looked a lot like karate, they didn't want to give any nod to the Japanese because they weren't happy with the Japanese at the time. So they took it all the way back to China to the Tang dynasty and they call it Tung Tzu Do. And he actually called it Hua Tzu Do first, but that meant like way of the flower hand and nobody wanted to...
learn flower hand way because yeah, you know, just doesn't really give like the image of what you want to learn stepping into a martial arts studio. And so people were calling like Tung Tzu Do was just a common way to say like karate style without saying karate because they don't want to say karate. So in Korea at the time, they were just saying like Tung Tzu Do was kind of the way but his school was the Muda Kwan. So it was Tung Tzu Do, Muda Kwan. And quickly they became the like the it factor of Korea.
And then after the Korean War, they wanted to create a sport. Like America had baseball. It's now football, but it was baseball at the time. Like that was our sport. That's what brought us together as a nation. Now it's football. And because after the Korean War, they split, they had no nationality as South Korea. They didn't have an identity. So they said, let's make a sport where we can all have this come together. The Muda Kwan, there was five main Kwans, five main schools, Kwan means school at the time.
that all came together and Muda Kwan was bigger than the other four combined. That's how big it was to create taekwondo. When Hwang Ki realized that it was gonna become more of a sport, he pulled out because he had worked so hard to make this art that was a nod to like Korean heritage, traditional Korean martial arts, traditional Chinese martial arts. He worked really hard to create the vision he wanted and he knew that that was going to.
Jeremy (30:06.063)
Mm
Jay (30:30.636)
not be a thing in taekwondo. And that doesn't mean that like, some people get really like fired up and like, well, I don't like taekwondo. I'm like, that's not what I'm saying. Taekwondo is an amazing art and it's an amazing sport. I would say it's more of a sport. People if people are offended by that, I'm sorry. But does that mean cut? Yes. Yes. And I'll get into that too. Because it also depends. The other thing about taekwondo is like, that doesn't mean anybody is less than an athlete. Most all the taekwondo athletes are more athletes.
Jeremy (30:31.364)
Mm
Jeremy (30:47.419)
Depends on the school you go to. Depends on the school.
Jay (31:00.258)
athletic than I am. mean, look at that. Look at the level they're competing at. And so I think most taekwondo schools have lost part of the art, I would say. They still have it there. It's still there. But they are more sport, in my opinion. Nobody has to agree with me. However, when General Choi, who is it's funny, he's seen as this like hero figure in any of the taekwondo world. He is not
Jeremy (31:27.823)
depends on who you talk to.
Jay (31:29.312)
as a hero figure in the Muda Kwan world because he actually made it illegal for anyone to practice anything but taekwondo in Korea. So Hwang Ki was faced with the, I, man, I've seen the receipts. H .T. Hwang is his son who I've trained with many times who is like our Kwan -Jun right now. And he pulls up the receipts of the legal proceedings. Like it's insane. And what's really cool is like,
I'm hearing from a secondary source. No, I'm not hearing from a primary source. None of us can hear from primary sources, but I at least am hearing the story from a secondary source and one who was, it was his father. So yes, he's probably, people would say he's biased and I would agree because we're human, but also he was there even when it was happening. Like H .G. Huang is also a primary source in a different way. And it was hard for them cause they're like, okay, well our art's gonna die if we don't figure out a way around this because...
these people who were practitioners, was their job was to be a martial arts teacher. So they couldn't just like say, okay, well, I'm just gonna teach Muda Kwan because then they'd be like arrested. So they taught Taekwondo, but they would actually teach Muda Kwan. Some of them, not all of them, some of them would teach Taekwondo, but they were teaching Muda Kwan. So then you'll see these people who are now training Taekwondo Muda Kwan. Those lines look much more traditional.
And I would say are so that's what you're saying, like, it depends what taekwondo practitioner talking about, because there are very, very traditional looks a little bit more like Tang Soo Do. But also, it's taekwondo, it's like a mixture, and still knows their line knows their heritage hasn't lost like tradition, you'll see those taekwondo schools that exist out there that are phenomenal. But that's why they exist that way. And then so
Kwong Kee decided to go to the Air Force bases. That's the way he found around it is, and that's where Chuck Norris first started training in Victor Martinov and all those greats. And cause he knew that it would exist through the USA. And what's funny is of course our Federation in the USA is way bigger than where if you ask anybody from Korea, what Tung Tzu Do or Sue Bok Do is, they look at you like you're crazy. They're like, you do Taekwondo? And they get really excited because they do have a lot of pride around it. I love it. It makes me so happy when like I can relate to,
Jay (33:51.892)
somebody who's Korean in that way of being like, yes, I love your heritage and your country and they get excited and it's great. But I don't even know why I started this tangent other than I love to talk.
Jeremy (34:00.143)
It's okay. It's okay. If you dig the history side of things, this is for you and for the audience. Alex Gillis's book, A Killing Art, I don't know if you've read it, Jay. Alex was on the show years ago. It's a phenomenal book. He's an investigative journalist and he went super deep. It is, as far as I'm concerned, the definitive work on the history of Taekwondo. And a lot of the early days that you're talking about are discussed in there.
Jay (34:21.731)
Hmm.
Jay (34:27.127)
And a lot
Jeremy (34:27.217)
to the audience. Go check out that book. Alex did a great job.
Jay (34:30.294)
lot of the people who like a lot of the taekwondo greats were originally mudokwon greats not all but a good amount which is what I love when I meet somebody who does taekwondo or tungsideo or anything is we're all from the same rupa like we're all from the same lineage we can trace ourselves back to huangqi and we're just a big family and that's how H .E. Huang talks about it and that's what I love I know I started this I started this because I switched from tungsideo to subokdo and I okay
Jeremy (34:56.248)
yeah.
Jay (34:59.86)
This is my my perception before I started Subakdo as someone in Tung Sido was those people breathe way too much. They sound weird. And they look soft. Like that. That was my impersonation of Subakdo. I remember like going to a Master Kralis's class when I was younger and everyone's like, and I'm like, y 'all are weird. Y 'all are strange. And you sound weird. And then when we spar them, I was like, you're not good. Like
Come at me, bro. Because we were very hard style, look like 70s Tamsudo. Because when my instructor stopped, when Master Francis stopped, he stopped in like 80s and stuff. So he looked like 80s Tamsudo. We just looked. We were frozen in time of what it looked like then. And so when I started Tsubakudo, I had my... I was like, I don't know. I'm glad it's here and I'm glad to train, but I'm not...
Jeremy (35:58.072)
It sounds like you were reluctant.
Jay (35:59.916)
Yes, I was happy to have an instructor and Coralis Abanem is an amazing practitioner. Somebody once said about him like if you want to see the art personified, watch Coralis and I think that's a great way to explain like how he moves. He moves so well and I could see him and I'd be like I want to look like him but I'd see his students and I who are good but like
it wasn't what I was used to seeing. I was used to seeing like a lot of fire energy, like a lot of snap, a lot of quick, a lot of, and I wasn't seeing that in his students, but I wanted to look like him. And so I now have a different perspective of his students, but this is what I felt like at 19, like watching his classes. And his, my second class that I came, he stuck me in the back of the room for 20 minutes.
and he gave me a chair. And what he was working on is he had me lift my knee up and then do a front kick and push the chair so only like the front feet come off the ground. And then you bring your knee back in and then you bring it down. What this is training is a front thrust kick, not a front snap kick. You have to bring your knee up high enough that your weapon shows and then you extend out and you use your hip. It's a little bit, it's slower than a snap kick, but it's much more powerful.
I think like a good way of explaining it is think of like a Muay Thai teep. It looks more like a teep than it does the classic like karate snap kick. It's it is a different kick. And I had like, first of all, man, I was in muscle failure in like 30 seconds and I had to do it for 20 minutes because my quads were gone. But I remember about six months in, I started to feel the difference of what it felt like to move more fully.
and to really experience the push and pull. Like before I was just pushing and I had no pull. There was no fullness of movement. And I realized that sometimes something can look beautiful and soft and it's actually stronger because you're moving more effectively. And an ease, when there's an ease of movement, sometimes it looks soft, but it's not. think like Bruce Lee is a good example of this. You want to think he was like as powerful as he was, but he demonstrated many times how powerful he was.
Jay (38:17.27)
because when you have effectiveness of movement, like anyway, and so I just, my testimony of Subakdo grew more and more. And what I would say is the difference is, well, technically in Subakdo, they're teaching Tung Tzu Do till dawn. It's all hard style material. You learn like soft style, middle way style after you're a dawn. But at least in my school in Tung Tzu Do and other Tung Tzu Do schools I've experienced, they,
Jeremy (38:34.329)
Yeah.
Jay (38:46.638)
they teach hard style with more gusto and they focus a lot more on like energy and the energy of a martial artist which I love and I like to do with my students and kind of that where Su Bak Do focused on technique like so much that I think it slows down your the students sometimes. Everybody looks the same by the time they get to the highest levels however it's just a different approach to training and the reason
I they did this was because when Hwang Ki and H .G. Hwang visited all the schools back in like the 90s, everyone looked different. Everyone was doing something else and they weren't looking like the picture that of like the art of what it was supposed to be. So they standardized all the material. This is when people split and this is when now you have a lot of Tung Sido schools walking away because they didn't like the standardized, they didn't like being like, I mean, if you're running a very successful school and you're doing well for yourself,
And then somebody tells you like, Hey, you actually have to train it this way. Like people are gonna walk away just from a business standpoint, not even from like a personal standpoint. So it makes sense why, but they focused a lot on like the technique of movement and that's been the emphasis for last 20 years. Now the emphasis is coming back to bringing in the snap back and bringing the fire back. And so I think you're going to see like, my impression is Subakto is going to start looking faster.
than it has. They slow down all the heung and everything because people were doing it wrong. And now they're like, okay, everyone consistently is teaching the technique correctly. let's like H .E. Huang will be like, okay, well I'll like give it something, you know? And so I understand when people like, Su Pak Do looks soft. I'm like, I thought that also. And sometimes I like, I understand where you're coming from, but I'm telling you having been the sparring partner of everyone, boy, they're not. And the highest level like,
Jeremy (40:26.629)
Hmm.
Jay (40:43.622)
There is a very consistent requirement for each belt level, which I love. There's a lot asked of you for each belt rank in each test. It is very consistent. It is the same. And by the time you're seeing somebody at fifth degree or fourth degree, they look good. They look so good. And it does give a lot of pride in the art for me to like see that because that's not a given in arts these days.
Jeremy (40:53.797)
Mm
Jay (41:10.926)
There's a lot of great ones who do it right and there's people who are trying their best to do it right But just don't have the resources or you know, but I think That's something I've come to really love about Subakto
Jeremy (41:18.579)
Mm
Jeremy (41:24.483)
Nice, okay. So that just gave us a really good picture on start, why, how, up to now. So I'm gonna ask you a question I ask often, why are you still training?
Jay (41:41.292)
Wow, this is something that crossed my mind many times because when I graduated college and moved out here to Texas for a job, that would have been a natural breaking point to stop. But martial arts gives me so much peace of mind. I think I sometimes talk about it as it's kind of a reflection of where my life's at in the moment.
You can see when I'm struggling with training is often when I'm just struggling in general, but having something that I always can progress on, there's always something to do and it's predictable. Like I know what I need to do next for my next bell test is super nice, but the bigger part of it is definitely the community. I'm sorry. I cry really easily. It's fine. I've been really sick recently.
Jeremy (42:33.851)
It's okay, take your time.
You're not the first person to cry on this show, not by a long shot. Probably not.
Jay (42:40.222)
and I won't be the last I hope. I've been really sick recently and so much so that I can't train. I do a lot of breathing and I do a lot of like the very soft side like Tai Chi level stuff but I wasn't able to go to nationals this year and I don't care about the competition. Do I love the competition? Yes. Am I super competitive? Yes. Do I love being a part like I've been I've represented a lot of the team sparring teams
I have a lot of pride in that. But the thing is I just didn't get to see everyone because they're, it's just the best people, kind people. Martial artists are so kind. I think if you stick with it, you know, anybody, any art doesn't matter. Like if you stick with it for a long time, you got some good human qualities. You're kind, you're compassionate, you're humble, and you want to pass on like...
Jeremy (43:30.267)
Mm.
Jay (43:35.19)
your knowledge to the next generation in a weird way. I guess that's like a big way of saying it, but like there's just like a give back mentality. Just like how I mentioned with Harry and Jujitsu, like there's that where you just want to help each other and it really sucks not seeing everyone. And so for me, that's what I think has been keeping me going. Even when my belt test got pushed, my instructor certification test got pushed, don't know when it'll be. I'll do it.
Jeremy (43:59.845)
Hmm.
Jay (44:03.896)
don't know when. But the bigger thing is always just been not seeing people, you know, so.
Jeremy (44:12.353)
It sounds like a tough time, but the irony I would imagine is that part of what's getting you through that tough time are some of the lessons that you've learned from your training, which probably makes it both better and worse.
Jay (44:23.731)
Exactly. think the funny thing is, like martial arts is where I turn when my life goes crap. Like, I train harder. When things are harder, I train harder. Like that's what I do. I just, cause if I'm super anxious or have my, have all these like bad thoughts going on, I'll just train for more hours because I focus in on, you know, no matter what I'm doing, especially with Young practice. Like you can't think about other things while you're trying to do your technique right. And I haven't been able to do that. And
Jeremy (44:41.125)
Mm
Jay (44:51.83)
I'm lost, I'm like, what do I do? Because this is what I have done for the last long, long time. Even when I wasn't training actively, I would still do hyang practice when I was really stressed because it gave me that peace of mind. So I'm not at a point where can tell you like what I'm gonna do, because I don't know.
Jeremy (45:13.091)
Okay, I've got some friends, this is not so much coming from me, but I'm gonna share it. have some friends who, if they were in the room, they would steal the microphone from me and say, visualize. I've got a few friends who are really big. Josh Blum comes to mind on the visualization side of martial arts. so whether that works for you, I'm throwing it out to the audience as well that sometimes...
Because if you want to talk about having to focus when you're physically moving, you can go on the autopilot. But if you're visualizing, that's all you've got is the mental side of things, right? So being able to dig in and say, all right, where's this move? Where's this move? And I'll just speak from personal experience. The last time I competed, which was a little while ago now, the visualization was half of my training. And...
just I'll modestly say it worked.
Jay (46:12.962)
You don't have to honestly say you can show me videos and tell me because I would love that. I know the visualization is.
Jeremy (46:14.415)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy (46:19.451)
I won my division, know, we'll just, we'll leave it that way. My form is division. And I think total physics, I only had a little bit of time. I lived in a small home and I borrowed some space to train. I hadn't competed in 10 years and the form I was doing, I had not been doing actively. This comes out of the Isshin -Rusai of my lineage, Kusanku. Which, okay. Okay.
Jay (46:43.71)
yeah, I know. I don't know it, but I know it. I'm not allowed to know it yet, but I know. I know it's my next rank. I'll get to learn it.
Jeremy (46:53.113)
Okay, I think the one that you do is closer to like Konkukdai.
Jay (47:00.632)
I want you to send me and then I will let you know. I love this. This is the best part of our community.
Jeremy (47:02.523)
Okay, we'll compare notes after. We'll compare notes after. But I think between, and you actually brought this up at the beginning, the value of this thing, a cell phone, as a training tool between my cell phone, I had two sessions, visualization. I probably did the form in practice a dozen times. Not a dozen sessions, but a dozen iterations of the form. And that was all I needed.
Jay (47:15.212)
Mm hmm. Yes.
Jay (47:30.562)
Mm -hmm.
Jeremy (47:32.355)
And I believe a large part of that was because of the visualization. I was able to make each repetition so much better each time through.
Jay (47:40.63)
I love that and I talk to, I haven't even told my students that many times, because I actually, I teach through Digital Dojo, our online platform, and I tell them, say, as a remote student, the best thing you can do is video yourself and then visualize it. I think my, and this is calling myself out, is that I get so frustrated where I'm at, that I can't do, and so then I avoid. The fact that I can't do my hyang in the way I want to,
Jeremy (47:48.41)
Hmm.
Jay (48:08.748)
that like I'm so limited, then I just get mad. And then I'm like, this sucks.
Jeremy (48:11.707)
So I'm going to challenge you a little bit. I think we've got enough time in. can do this. there's, I believe wholeheartedly, and I've said this on the show a number of times, that the thing that you are, I see martial arts as like a trivial pursuit wheel, right? And we fill in these wedges, right? The pies. And the first art you train, if you train in, you know, five, six, seven years, that's probably the biggest piece. And as we train more and more, we've get these other
Jay (48:16.312)
this.
Jeremy (48:41.381)
pieces, but the thing that you are the worst at with regard to your training, whatever that is, that is the biggest piece you can add in.
Jay (48:53.742)
True. No, I like that. And it's definitely what I've been trying, but like have been avoiding. So that's good. I have gotten a lot better at the breathing exercises, which has been nice because I will have to teach those eventually. And they're great. They really like, they work. Yeah, it's.
Jeremy (48:54.843)
So I'm just gonna throw that out there.
Jeremy (49:12.325)
Can you say more about that? It's sounding in my mind like qigong, but maybe not. Okay. Okay.
Jay (49:18.382)
No, it is Qigong. It's, it's, Qigong is like the bigger and then it's, we call it Mupal Dongkum, which is literally just like breathing exercises for warriors is all it is. So it's Tai Chi that was specifically used for warriors before they like either went to battle or they just do them every morning. So they're straight from Qigong and from Chinese breathing practices. They're all like, it's all the same. cause our lineage goes back.
Chinese, you know, so every most does eventually, if you go back far enough. And, but there is like a set, you can do any of them and you can teach it anyway. There's not a lot of regulations when it comes anywhere in Subhakti. There's usually like, okay, this is specifically what you need to learn, but not with the with this with Mupal Dhankum, they're like, go be a scholar and find whatever breathing exercises you like, and then come teach them but they have a set that they teach you first just to like
Jeremy (49:52.313)
You go far enough and we all end up there.
Jeremy (50:15.845)
Hmm.
Jay (50:16.978)
So I've started to memorize those and get better at those. And I challenge anybody to just do a Qigong every morning and see if you feel different because the answer is, is you will. But you go, how does breathing and moving in this way like affect so much? Like I'm talking better digestion, like better heart rate. And they've proven it does that, but they can't tell you how it works. And so people don't talk about it as much, but you know, I always feel better when I do it.
haven't, but I'm working on making that my more regular and then doing more visual visualization. I will take your challenge and I will do that more because it man, when I get back at it, like having memorized everything, if I can do that, like, and just visualize and be there and be present and not avoid, you know, because I'm mad because that's the reality is I'm mad. You know, like, no, there's not.
Jeremy (51:07.941)
It's okay to be mad. There's nothing wrong with being mad, right? But it's what you do with that energy, right? You talked about it as fire. And I don't know if it was intentional, but I was waiting for you to say fire nation, like just the way you said fire, I was thinking avatar. I don't know if that... Okay, okay. So I didn't guess that wrong. It was there, okay. All right, I feel better.
Jay (51:21.986)
Yes, my dog's name is Sozin.
Jeremy (51:33.785)
I lost my train of thought. Too many tangents. That's okay. That's okay. But the value of breathing, most of us live in chronic stress, right? Our body was not developed for all of the things that we do and prioritizing them as if they are a big deal because they're really not in the grand scheme of us being alive. So our body reacts to that stress and...
Jay (51:36.44)
I know I do that to a person. I get you lost with it because I go down and we rub it.
Jay (52:00.619)
Mm -hmm.
Jeremy (52:01.421)
forcing that breathing, whatever the breathing protocol is, has a lot of value. It's something I'm personally working on a lot because my trigger, not so much trigger, the milestone for me is a few years ago I was on vacation and I went and I had breakfast and then I went and I had lunch and I realized breakfast had not moved. I was so stressed that zero digestion happened. And I went,
Jay (52:25.021)
Mmm.
Jay (52:28.598)
Isn't that crazy?
Jeremy (52:30.851)
we've got to change something here. And so that's been the big focus of my personal work the last few years.
Jay (52:35.222)
I think like, I won't get too far into it because I know we're at the end, but breath, I didn't touch on this when I talked about how weird I thought everybody's Subakto was with how they breathe. But on my way back from my dawn test, Kerala Sabanem explained to me that there is like a different breath for each movement that represents different elements.
Jeremy (52:55.599)
Mm.
Jay (52:56.238)
And I watched him after he told me and he got way into it. It's very cool and very detailed. And any like traditional Chinese art will actually like comes from this tradition. I'd watch and each of his different movements would have a different type of breath. And as you so you look stupid when you're trying it out, you just sound like an idiot trying like I still sound like an idiot trying to figure it out. But when you do it right, and you match the right movement with the right breath, it feels so awesome. And I was like, okay.
I'm with it, but like anything in martial arts, you look like an idiot till you get there. And it doesn't matter because we're all just.
Jeremy (53:30.395)
How do you make progress at anything without looking like an idiot? It's not possible.
Jay (53:32.706)
I know you can't, that's the thing. It's just like breathing specifically, I think the best way I can relate to it is like when I'm doing it, you ever go to hot yoga for like the first time and they're just like breathing like crazy and you're like, are these people doing? That's how I feel when I do it wrong. like, no, that's not, I just feel stupid in a good way. Not in a way that I get mad at myself, but I'm like, that was not it. It's more obvious.
Jeremy (53:49.499)
Mm.
Jeremy (53:58.787)
I love that feeling, because that's how I know I'm gonna be able to learn stuff. Anybody who's been through it and looks back, they don't look down on you. The only people who look down on you, and as content creators, we both experience this, are the people who claim that they have been through it, but actually haven't, want to, and they're too scared to do it themselves. Those are the only people who are trashing other people making effort.
Jay (54:02.058)
I know.
Jay (54:22.529)
Mm
Jay (54:28.014)
Especially martial artists, the only people hating on you or people who are doing less than you. Like, there's never somebody doing more than you who's hating on your content. I've learned that.
Jeremy (54:37.957)
Right, With rare exception, once in a while. Once in a while, but the majority of people, know, maybe this is something we should talk about because, you you are, you're a creator and one of the things I've observed and we've heard this on the show is that women receive criticism on social media very differently than men do. And I've watched some of your comments, I've jumped in and...
Jay (54:43.062)
There, you know, you'll get
Jeremy (55:09.509)
digitally thrown punches, I guess. I don't know how else to express it. Not because you can't defend yourself, but because we all should be respecting each other. And when that line is violated, that's when I get upset.
Jay (55:24.398)
I have never once critiqued somebody online a martial artist, because I just love to see people doing martial arts. I think, yes, women, this is just an objective statement. Women, especially female martial artists, get much, much, much more hate than men. Not that men aren't getting hate comments and all that, they aren't dealing with that, and that it's not still affecting people, but a lot of my female content creator martial artist friends have stopped making content.
there's a few that get a lot of hate that I like. Locally grown Asian is like she's one of my favorite people. does Tae Kwon Do and Muay Thai. She's a phenomenal practitioner. She gets so much hate and I'm like that girl could mess you up. First of all, not that that's how it matters but I when I started when that first video went viral I got so much hate and I
realized I had to make a choice then and there. Like I can either stop and just not take any of that negative energy in my life. I can just not make content and just not do this. Or I could do it and be the example for like other people, not even either one get a community or two. Like there was a couple young girls who had reached out to me already that were like, it's so cool to see a girl doing martial arts. And I had never seen a female master till I was in college in person.
like I had not and it was a like a very important experience for me because I just like not seen it done. And so I was like, you know what, I want that. I want to be here and I want like, I'm not gonna let people who are probably living very sad lives and not in a way to like, I honestly, honest to goodness feel bad for them.
because anybody who is in so much pain that they feel the need to put down others is like really going through it. And so I think it's just trying to like reframe what I try to do. Cause it's not that some of them will get to me. Like I'm not, I'm not saying I'm immune. I am not, but I just try to remember that like those people I think are in a lot of pain and then to, I work my butt off and this is what I look like when I work my butt off, that's okay. And
Jay (57:44.16)
Also, some of the comments are like very oddly specific of like, I think I get those the most, especially from like, I get a lot from taekwondo practitioners or very traditional karate because very traditional karate doesn't like the way we look often because we are a deviation of their stuff. Like, I don't care what anybody says from the Muda Kwan, Tung Sudo or Tsubak Dough. We are deviations from like original karate dough, you know?
And so they don't like our iteration, is most of which I don't care. I'm like, yeah, that's fair. I love your iteration. You guys look great. And so it's or it's like nitpicky like, you're doing this wrong or you did this wrong. We're really it's just like we do it.
Jeremy (58:24.003)
But most of those comments come from people who have been training for two to three years, just long enough that they think they understand the entirety of their own system and they don't recognize that there are different, also legitimate ways to do things.
Jay (58:39.042)
And I would have to like, and I have to, I think they're also, no, I don't even think, I know there is also a layer of like, people can't accept the fact that a woman could be a better fighter than them. Because fighting is seen as this like masculine quality, right? Of like protecting your family, like, don't let them get eaten by a saber tooth tiger, like we're like, you know, that's, that is a manly thing. And so guys have a really hard time even
if they don't, I don't think they consciously go, this girl could beat me up, I feel threatened, I'm going to comment. I don't think it's that like, cognizant. I think it's more just like the fact that like a girl who looks like she can fight is threatening. So they have to take take you down a few notches. Because the
Jeremy (59:26.053)
because if they don't, it makes them feel inadequate about themselves. It's something I have watched. It's not something I have experienced myself because I grew up, my primary instructor was a woman and I started training when I was really young. So I saw it, but I also, I was aware enough to see some of the things that happen when men wouldn't come through. And it's hard to reconcile that sometimes.
Jay (59:49.792)
And people like want to ignore it. is. that to me, a part of it is programming too in our like society. I think you just don't have to comment it. You can deal with your own insecurities or like feel threatened. That's okay. You can feel how you need to feel, but maybe don't hate comment after it. But it is, it's even a thing though from like people who are not from the hate side, but
Jeremy (59:57.519)
Mm
Jeremy (01:00:03.225)
Mm
Jeremy (01:00:09.087)
but that's so much easier.
Jay (01:00:17.042)
For regionals one time we actually spart everyone in like our region men and women spart We just all competed for the top spots in the sparring and I always tell girls The way to get into a guy's head I said and this is this might sound a little sexist and I don't think this this is a generalization to be clear Okay, so this is like a stereotype if this is not Okay, if this is not fit you that's okay, but from everyone I have talked to this fits
Jeremy (01:00:38.969)
I like the disclaimer. I'm excited for this.
Jay (01:00:46.058)
Men step into a ring thinking they're going to win. Women step into a ring thinking they're going to lose. Okay. So if you have that basis already of like knowing that, how can you manipulate it to your advantage? Because competitive sparring is a huge mental game. I have beaten, most people that I have beaten are better spars than me. Better technique. They look better. They're faster. Like, but I'm really good at getting in people's heads.
Jeremy (01:01:02.842)
you
Jay (01:01:16.078)
and I have a fast enough reaction time that I can make it work. So when I sparred all these guys, and this was not the first time, you know, I grew up sparring everyone, any shape and size. And so I doesn't like one, I don't feel very threatened. Do I feel threatened that the person's taller than me? Yes. Faster, stronger? Yes. Of course I do. Like I'm a human, but I know that that guy is so worried about being beat by a girl that it is gonna get me to beat him faster.
Jeremy (01:01:44.955)
Hmm.
Jay (01:01:45.696)
Not all guys are like this, most are, especially in my age group. And so what I did with these guys is all you have to do is let, they will advance first. They will attack you first because they're going to try to scare you. Most men will try to scare you right off the bat if you're a girl. And so I teach all girls, just give a good front leg sidekick, a good one. Take the contact warning if you need to. Don't break the rib, like, but give them enough that they're going to be scared because now they're second guessing themselves. She just got a point on me.
I can't just run in and advance on her and she's got a point and I'm worried I'm going to lose. And I have very long femurs. I don't know if you've ever done the perfect proportions where you measure a bone and then put it into this mathematical equation that's supposed to tell you how tall you are. We did this in science class in high school and my science teacher thought I did it wrong because my femur says I'm supposed to be 6 '3". But it's because I'm literally all legs, which is great because I'm like even with taller guys, I am
My arms are shorter, but at least my legs are like almost as long. So yeah, I have a pretty good success rate of beating guys in, but I haven't done it like open tournaments or anything. I don't have no idea how I'd fare, but this is just going on. This has been my whole hypothesis that I've been testing. I've done these things and cause and then it's worked once, once you get that first point on them. But there are other guys that will just continue to rush cause I think that they can cause it works with most girls will get scared and though, especially cause they just haven't had the
A lot of girls haven't had the experience of sparring guys often. And with girls, it's different because they, we both are walking in thinking, I am the inferior fighter. And so the, for me, I act as if I am operating on, I think I'm going to win. So I walk into that ring going, I'm going to win. I'm going to win. take the male perspective and I go, I'm going to This is my ring.
Jeremy (01:03:23.909)
Mm -hmm.
Jay (01:03:39.598)
I'm gonna beat you and they think that's what I'm thinking even though I don't actually think that actually I think I'm the worst fighter but if I trick myself into believing it then they believe that and then I beat them I'm telling you it's all I got okay. I don't I got I can't do the actual gymnastics so I do the mental gymnastics Yeah, and it was I've had a high success rate with it. I'll put it that way
Jeremy (01:03:48.432)
lot of mental gymnastics happening here. I like it.
Jeremy (01:03:59.929)
like it. I like it. Well, it's pretty darn close to visualization.
Jay (01:04:04.598)
It is pretty darn close to visualization. Not that I still put in a lot, a lot, a lot of time on my sparring drills. I still spend a lot of time training. It's not that I'm not putting time in there, but sparring is very mental and I'm very into the like, but at the end of the day, we walk out of that ring, I'm giving you a hug. I'm asking you your name. I want to know about you. Like it's, it's not like I'm mean, but I just, I want you to start asking people. want you to ask, don't tell them the background. Just ask men and women like when you walk into a ring,
you think you're gonna win or do you think you're gonna lose? And not in a way that like you have to ask in a way you're like, do you think you're gonna lose when you walk in a ring? Because if you ask a girl that she's gonna be like, no. But if you put if you ask in like a group of men and women, like, I've heard that men step into a ring thinking they're gonna win and women step into a ring thinking they're gonna lose, the girls will say yes and the guys will say yes.
Jeremy (01:04:52.286)
I'm hearing, instead of me, I'm hearing content from you.
Jay (01:04:56.584)
it's anyways, but I, I just think that's
Jeremy (01:05:01.989)
When you're done, can even give you a place to write the article to post it. Shout out to Marshall Journal.
Jay (01:05:04.906)
I'm... Okay. I'm ready. So that's just, I don't know how we started on that, but I do think that's very interesting. Well, sorry.
Jeremy (01:05:12.709)
How did we start on any of this? That's what we do here on Marshall Arts Radio. I press go and chaos happens and then about an hour later I press stop. That's the format for this show. It's where we are and I love it. It makes my life exciting.
Jay (01:05:28.11)
That's awesome.
Jeremy (01:05:29.655)
What are people going to find on your social media content other than you mimicking? that an appropriate word? Cobra Kai fight scenes.
Jay (01:05:41.644)
Yeah, I'm leaning a little bit more into the martial arts comedy side of things right now since training is limited. But you'll see a lot of like, a third of my content is training tips that I linked back to digital Dojo. And then martial arts comedy is more than a third recently. And then also just fun kicking videos and or like Cobra Kai recreations.
I really like to kick. Kicking's my favorite. And so you're going to see that a lot. And some narcolepsy content every once in a while.
Jeremy (01:06:16.116)
We didn't even talk about that. I kind of wish we had pressed, I had hit record before, because to the audience, we're on for like five minutes and I almost got Jay with a spit take. It was pretty good. was pretty. What are your handles?
Jay (01:06:31.726)
I approve.
Jay (01:06:39.978)
at JGurlCook for both, for everything, TikTok, YouTube, Instagram. Instagram's the most poppin', TikTok's the most unhinged, and YouTube is building, so. Yeah, more long -term content coming to that.
Jeremy (01:06:52.059)
Okay, right on. Awesome, we'll make sure we'll get that stuff linked and to the audience, thanks for being here. Thanks for riding this out. I know at least two people enjoyed this episode, you and I. And if maybe, I'm sure others out there did, but I hope you do go follow Jay because she's doing good stuff and she is as funny as she is here. So maybe, almost, almost. I'm gonna take some credit and say you're a little funnier here today, but I prompted that.
Jay (01:07:13.688)
No, thank you.
Jay (01:07:20.364)
I'm sorry.
Jeremy (01:07:21.068)
Remember whistlekick martial arts radio .com for the full show notes whistlekick .com for all the things that we're doing to serve the traditional martial arts martial artists globally and Jim I'm pass it to you to close us up. What do you want to share with the audience? What final words thoughts etc. Do you want to send them away with today?
Jay (01:07:41.378)
I think just remember that your journey can look totally different in martial arts than you expect it to and it's all right. And it's all still a journey even if you're like barely training like me, you're still training and you're still with it and it's just gonna make you a stronger martial artist at the end of the day and stick with it. If martial arts means to you what it means to like me and Jeremy here.
You know, if you feel that in your bones, that gut reaction of that you love martial artists, keep training. Don't stop, even when it sucks and even when it's really hard, because it always gets better and you always become a better person because of it. Not just a better martial artist, but a better human, a better friend, like everything. So just, just don't quit. Not yet.