Episode 943 - The Legacy we Leave Behind
In this episode, a familiar cast of characters (Victor Guarino, Karen Guarino, Kellie Thomas, Mark Warner, Matt Nather, and Craig Wharem) get together in person at FTDMW and discuss legacy in the martial arts.
The Legacy we Leave Behind - Episode 943
SUMMARY
The conversation (with Craig Wharem, Kellie Thomas, Mark Warner, Karen Guarino, Matt Nather, Victor Guarino) revolves around the topic of legacy in martial arts. The participants discuss what they hope to leave behind and what they want their students to take away from their teachings. They emphasize the importance of having fun, building self-confidence, and creating a sense of belonging. They also talk about the temporary nature of martial arts involvement and how to manage the emotions of students moving on. The participants share personal stories and insights on teaching from the heart and making a positive impact on students' lives.
TAKEAWAYS
* Legacy in martial arts is about leaving a positive impact on students' lives.
* Having fun and not taking oneself too seriously is an important aspect of martial arts.
* Building self-confidence and creating a sense of belonging are key goals in teaching martial arts.
* Managing the emotions of students moving on is a challenge, but it's important to support and encourage them.
* Teaching from the heart and making a positive impact on students' lives is crucial in martial arts.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Defining Legacy in Martial Arts
06:01 Legacy: Having Fun and Not Taking Oneself Too Seriously
09:52 Legacy: Building Self-Confidence and Creating Belonging
12:17 Managing Emotions: Students Moving On
18:27 Teaching from the Heart: Making a Positive Impact
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Show Transcript
JJeremy (00:01.704)
So let's talk about legacy, the legacy that you all want to leave behind. And I'll let you define legacy however it works in your head. I suspect it's all close. But think about at some point in the future, you may stop teaching.
Jeremy (00:22.128)
statistically likely you will all pass away at some point and so even if you have continued to teach until your final day you will stop teaching at some point. When you consider that what is it you hope endures beyond you with respect to martial arts?
Jeremy (00:48.216)
I'll go You're going to go first. I won't look down on me. I think about this quite often. Just, I don't know why, I'm just hardwired to think about legacy and the impact you leave with people. And I think ultimately, I just want martial artists, if they learn anything from me and my presence, is to not take yourself so seriously. I never really stopped being the goofy kid who started doing martial arts.
It's at the end of the day one of the things that I was always always reasoning with me is that it's supposed to be fun and so if you get bogged down in The day -to -day or the politics and titles and all that drama then the fun goes away and So well the entirety of your training sometimes you're gonna have that that bitter
But you sometimes have to get through the bitter to enjoy the sweet. So I think for me...
the legacy that I would hope people get is just have fun.
Jeremy (02:03.708)
Sure. We'll go down the line. I thought we were going down the line. Legacy. So, we'll say about a year and
Jeremy (02:18.952)
teaching for a little over 20 years at this point.
Jeremy (02:24.608)
that's been important, that was important to me as I was trying to decide what our core curriculum was, was remembering what stuck with me most from the instructors that had the biggest impact on me. And our forms are actually, they translate to legacy form, X member, whatever it is. what I thought, when I thought not just what to put into the curriculum that way, it was the thoughts and the questions that they asked me.
that brought me into wanting to teach and made me what I believe made me a better instructor. So they're the same things that have become the core of my curriculum that come directly from my instructors. It's not just, hey, now we're going to talk about doing a low block. I'm going to just ask them question after question after question so they can find their own answers about what it is they want their block to do, how they're going to perceive it, how they can use it, not just in class, not just while doing a form. What do you hope your students do with
use that same mentality on whatever it is they end up finding themselves passionate about. Not just, I want the answer, it's done. I want them to explore that answer and then be able to pass that same knowledge on by getting someone else and leading them to that answer with that same concept of ask them why, ask them how, ask them what it is so they can develop their own passion or love for what it is you're going for, what you're finding out about.
that self -exploration to the knowledge.
Jeremy (04:00.13)
I guess I want my legacy to be that everyone has a place. Everyone is worthy and everyone is loved or should be loved. the whole reason I teach is to increase self -confidence and self -worth because that was something I struggled with a lot.
And actually the reason I started teaching again was this young boy Told his mom he wanted to do taekwondo after I taught a few sessions and it was the first thing he showed interest in after His stepbrother committed suicide And I had absolutely no intention of ever going into teaching again
It's almost like Mr. Miyagi
Jeremy (05:04.368)
You know a little sign if you haven't if you have students you must teach kind of thing and so it felt like this young man needed something and Apparently it was something I could do and that just kind of brought me back into And you know the best thing I love is you know you watch the student we don't break boards to do all this thing, but When you see that student we count in class and you see that student go from whispering
to being, you know, leading the class in front of adults and they're the loudest counters. You know, mean, that's, to me, that's gonna stay with them a lot longer than the physical part. And I might be focusing on that because as you get older, the physical part goes away. But I want everybody to know that they belong and that they're worthy.
So this is my opportunity to expand on something that has been following me since my first episode on Whistlecake. It was the thing that Andrew pulled out to be the teaser at the beginning, which makes me sad. It made, I hated it. It made me sound like such a pompous, I hated it so much, but it was the statement. And every person who's ever listened to the episode, my interview episode has always been like, hey, that thing you said. And it's when I said that lots of people do martial arts. Not many people are martial artists.
And out of context, sounds like a terribly elitist thing that I said. So now I get, I get my opportunity to expound on that. The very first memory I ever have is being held by my mother standing in line at my grandfather's viewing. and that's kind of very indicative of kind of some, some points in my life, very hard outside of life, you know, outside of, outside of martial arts things
tragedy, struggle, hard thing, hard thing, hard thing. And one of the things that I found once I started martial arts was it was that place that I could go. Even when I was by myself in my own mind, I would just be alone in a field doing forms by myself and everything else fell away. Like it was my one moment to kind of get out from under the water and relax.
Jeremy (07:28.738)
And even in moments when what I mean by being a martial artist is, again, to quote Mr. Miyagi, because he's so good, is that lesson for whole life, right? Like the stuff that I've used from the martial arts that I have taken have gotten me through hard things. And so when I'm teaching my students, I want them to just not see me as
the guy who is teaching them something and they're going to learn what I do. I want them to see what I'm doing until it's not my technique anymore. It's theirs and it's never going to look, they're never going to do it the way that I do it. They're going to have to make it work for them. And that's what I mean why I want them to be martial artists because I want them to take the physical techniques and make them their own. But the lessons of eating bitter, of it's hard
It's hard to do martial arts. Sometimes I give, you know, we have brand new yellow belts in our school and they're having to learn hi -an -ni -dan and it's so much harder to them than the previous two forms that they did and all of them are like, my God, this is so hard. Like, where do I put my foot? I'm like, just one step at a time, just do it. But when they get to the other side of it, they now will have an experience
When I started this thing, I couldn't see the end of it. But now that I know the end of it, wow, like it doesn't seem so overwhelming anymore. And that lesson is applicable to every aspect of life. While this thing that I'm in the middle of seems overwhelming, but there was a time when I couldn't see the end of this other thing. So if I just keep standing up and stepping forward, eventually I'll get on the other end of this too. And that's...
what I hope that my students take and my karate curriculum isn't my instructors anymore. It's ours. It's the things that we are taking and adapting and changing and adding to. And I hope that our students, all of them, I know that that's not going to happen, but it was my hope that all of them would then take what we have created and are creating.
Jeremy (09:52.528)
and add to it because if it just remains at what we have created, well then it's stagnant and then the water will become muddy and then it will become stale and then it's just pond scum. Wow. Karen, you get the whole of the words pond scum. Yeah. I, lot of what Kelly said was actually
Similar to what I was planning on saying and then some what you said so I wish I would have wish I would have gone earlier now, but It's okay. Yeah Yeah Yeah, so I mean for me it is not important what rank I You know eventually achieve or if anyone even remembers my name. I don't care if my students Go off to win a bunch of tournaments or trophies. That's
that's not important, but like I love working
Jeremy (10:58.184)
kids who have obstacles, to put it. So like we have toddlers that have either, but that they either have physical disabilities or social or mental delays and just seeing the progress they make every day is amazing. And
That's what I just want, I hope continues. I hope that I get to see them continue and then I hope our students continue that after, you know, we can't. So, okay.
Jeremy (11:47.046)
My legacy is going to be this really cool chair that I get to sit up like this in. But other than any martial arts, it's two -fold. Mine is two -fold. I was thinking about this just the other day. The arts themselves must be perpetuated. We must give off ourselves so our students can become better than we were, we ever were. As the old Chinese saying, each generation must get better. That's what we have to do.
That's what we have to do to teach you. That's what I do. Part of my curriculum, I've got a lot of the dead wood that was in there to get in there as quick as I can. The second thing is the part that I dislike. And I'll say dislike because I don't want to use the word hate. I dislike and I love at the same time. It's happening again to me in the most powerful way. One was many years ago, about 20, 18, 20 years ago.
That's what Tashi Debra's daughter Darby went off to college. Of course, this is a great thing for everyone to feel. It's like your children going off to college and doing these great things. She has a family now, and her daughter is now training with us, and her other daughter will start to train with us. And it's about to happen again. Katah is getting ready to go to college. So she'll be going off too. So this is part of the long -term legacy that we have to encourage.
This is a huge part of We all love the moshelots, so we all want to keep the moshelots as our base line to perpetuate it. But at the same time, we gotta let the bird fly sometimes. So that's part of my legacy right there. Let the bird fly. I think that's a great subject for us to roll in. I suspect all of you have had, even if it hasn't been students who
moved on because they've gone to college or passed away or you've had relationships with people in martial arts that have ended. we can kind of generalize it there, but how do
Jeremy (14:00.21)
I guess move on from what we can kind of call like a martial arts breakup, right? Mark, you're talking about multiple students that you know for them going on to college is the best thing for them. But you also know that if they stuck around, that would be good for them and maybe a bit selfishly good for you because they're teaching classes and they're helping make the next generation better. So let's talk about the fact
We take a big enough view. Everyone's involvement in the martial arts is temporary. And some of the temporary nature is a shorter timeframe than what you're experiencing. How do you manage that? How do you manage the emotions of that? Well, that's easy. That's cool. I'll speak for all of them. Because I'm sure they're all going to agree. Right. We're at that point where Mark is for all of you. In a short episode. It's the chair.
Get him out of the chair. It's the mustard I'll get the ball rolling. We've discussed this before. Our students are our family. And these are our sons and daughters going off to do their things. That's what it's all about. Yeah. OK. Thank you. I've been thinking, I think it was the last, we call it leveling
ceremonies now where it's time I've got like everybody and almost like all the black belts and stuff they come to one place and I can get on my mustard chair I guess is what we're gonna call it and we were just talking about you know so I do Tai Kuan Do and Tai is foot, Kuan is hand and Do is the way and we were talking about what does Do mean and a year or so ago one of
special need, Black Belt said, well, it's a path. which I thought was nobody ever said that, you know, a way being the path. And so I started like really thinking about that and kind of setting up everybody so that, you know, when I have a new student, you know, we kind of go through the same little questions and stuff. And what is Taekwondo? And we've now started saying do is the path. You know, everybody gets here on a different
Jeremy (16:30.948)
everybody's doing martial arts on their own path. You know, we're doing it as a group, but it's still individualized. And, you know, when we leave here, we take our own path. And sometimes our path is to get to yellow belt. And sometimes our path is to get to black belt. And sometimes our path is to just keep going down the path because we don't know how to get off the path. But
When I started thinking of it that way, of course it always hurts because like Mark said, it's like a family and stuff. I think even though social media is not always great, I think that's a great way because I still get posts from former students. I get to watch what they're doing. It can be years and years and years and I'll see somebody lovely, Master Thomas. And it's still there. Big hug.
you know, boys who were like this and now are like this. They still, you I don't know if their moms even get hugs anymore, but you know, I get a hug. You know, because I was fortunate I got to be part of their path for a little while. And I'm very thankful for that. And then hopefully I got to help them when they go on.
There's that phrase from our prior recording you know, it's not you have to get you yeah, I was I was gonna say I think I was of 17 driving to high school driving driving to school one day and I did one of those real awkward things where you just let your gaze drift at a stoplight to the random stranger next to you and in that moment I had this existential crisis where I realized
I am the background character of the show that is their life. They have an entire life apart from me and I'm some schmo who drove by them in their car. And it kind of wrecked me for like the rest of that day. you know, moving down, down the line in my life, I realized that some people you only get one interaction with.
Jeremy (18:56.868)
ever. And that's like, that's really heavy. Like, and you can either be the bright spot of someone's day or the blight in someone's day. And as much as I want every single one of our students to be one of our first black belts, I know that that's not possible. But for however long and
short I have with each kid. I don't want them to ever look back at, I remember having to go to that school where I had to learn things. I love the fact that, I don't love it, but we have some kids who their parents tell us.
It's almost like pulling teeth to get them in the car and get them, but as soon as they walk through the door, it's like they remember, this is a bright place. This is one of the bright places that I actually like being. And to me, like that's how
I deal with it because that, you go back to a 17 year old me who had that crisis moment, that means that I not only get to influence a person who then leaves and I never see again, but I potentially am for good or bad influencing every single person that they touch. And that just, if they never leave, then
They never have the opportunity to be the bright place in someone else's life and so on and so forth. For good or for bad, there's a virality to the way you're treating your students, but you're talking about being conscious of it and letting that influence how you interact with them. That's powerful.
Jeremy (20:49.064)
so I started teaching very, very, was running a school at 14 and not just instructor change alone being 14, stepping in, teaching kids and adult classes. Anytime there's a shifters loss of a school. That's kind of how things go. People realize that you're like, Hey, this step, the other, it may not even be your fault. But at 14, I saw people leaving and I'm like, that was super.
Like what did I do? And it wasn't the most positive way it could have been worded. But one of my instructors at the time was like, always, somebody always teaches a student's last class. You decide the impact that had, whether it was your fault or not, but how they remember you may not just be that last class. So treat it like that maybe the last time that that's your class.
make that impact, how do they remember you? Did you give them high five? Did you say their name? Even if you're giving them a correction, was it out of malice or was it out of want for them to be better? Because that's, it's all perception from their side and it kind of carries what Victor said. It's their movie, it's their show and you're having that cross at some point. How long they stay there isn't always in your hands.
So you decide how well you impact the rest of that journey, that path, that movie of their life.
Jeremy (22:24.976)
I think that when we talk about family and martial arts, right, one of the things that I always say to my students when they're moving into a next chapter of life, whatever that is, is that it's always my job to keep the lights on at home. And you can always come home again. And I say that to them, and they come back consistently. And I say that to them whether they're going to college.
or whether they're leaving to play lacrosse, right? You can always come home again. When you win a state championship in your sport that you're choosing over martial arts, that's okay. Come see me because I want to know. And they do because they have that permission to return. I tell all my students that my love is unconditional. I love you whether you come to my classes or you don't. If I only love you when you're paying me to learn from me, then
not love. And so when I point that out to them and I say, look, my love for you is unconditional. You may come to me anytime. I want to know your success. I want to be a part of it. And the amount of students that have stayed, my original instructor always said to me, when you teach, your job is to plant seeds and you're very rarely going to see the fruits of your labor. They're going to leave.
and you're gonna hope you did the best you can. And I'm not confident enough in hope. I'd like to know. But the amount of students I have that when I got married were my groomsmen, right? Or some of them are getting married and have asked me to officiate their wedding and things like that. I'm still a part of their life. And some of them...
I got invited to their wedding and I hadn't seen them in seven or eight years. And so it's just, it's important. think beyond anything else, know, earlier I said, I want my legacy to be that, that idea of don't take yourself too seriously and have fun, but also remember that love is unconditional. If you really truly mean it, then it's unconditional. And that means constant support, you know? And I think that
Jeremy (24:48.808)
really important when you think about, kind like Matt said, somebody's last class, you're not too busy to make sure that they know you appreciate them. I don't care if the fun's beginning and there's 16 other things going on, make sure they know, because that's important.
Jeremy (25:13.548)
Mike dropping this doesn't have to be a you speak once and then you're I think it's important to most teachers teach because somebody a teacher impacted them is that true
Somebody made an impact on you and that's why you teach Jean -Claude Zandin. Jean -Claude Zandin. Hey, weren't you quoting it? What was that movie line you quoted from him earlier?
Just so you know, you did that in line at the rental car place and the people around us were just looking at it. Mark, I like you a little more now. No, but at some point, at some point, somebody left a legacy on us and we wanted to pay it forward. And I think that's that's important to recognize, too, when we think about legacy, because I'm grateful for the legacies.
You know, I'm grateful for the lessons that were taught to me that I get to carry on in my own way. Just like earlier we talked about maybe, you know, a student doesn't do a technique the way I do it. Well, that's fine. The legacy, the lessons that my teachers taught me is not the same way that it looked back. Some of the lessons I learned on love were it was tough love. Right. And that goes and you
my heart and my mind don't work that way. And so the way I do it is a little bit different. And carrying on a legacy too, I think is really important. Not just giving of what I want, but honoring the people who meant something to me along
Jeremy (27:12.69)
One of the people I remember most, he's still alive I'm pointing out because he taught me was Shelfu Shili Chong when we were China, we in different China.
Jeremy (27:31.154)
Well, you all know I have scoliosis. So doing Shaolin Kung Fu is little interesting for me. Well, the day before we had climbed up the mountain to see Damo's cave. I left my camera in his car. So we're walking to his car to get my camera. He turns to me and his best English goes, you have heart. You have heart. That's what it's all about. That's legacy from him to me. I hand off to my students. I'll hand all that.
If they show me heart, they can do anything.
Is that the most important part? Would you agree?
Yeah. Yeah. My instructor, wants, you in a Christmas card, said, keep doing what you're doing and teach from the heart. And that's what I try to do. How can you tell if someone's teaching from the heart versus not? I feel like you feel it. There's being taught. And then there's being
lead with love. It's a different feeling, think. Similarly to, you can go to a restaurant to have chicken parm, or you can have your telling grandma's chicken parm, and they taste real different.
Jeremy (28:54.024)
It's almost dinner time. You were saying like how can you tell if you're watching someone? Yeah, if you're observing a school that is, you know, the instructor instructors are teaching with a lot of heart versus maybe a school where heart isn't front and center. What might we notice that's different? I think the way that they correct their students. What does that look like? or?
Craig! Good Lord, I was looking at the fish! Well, think, you know, like... Look at your buddy. She paid attention. See, that's with love. I think it depends on like, do they correct a student and does the student look defeated?
Do you correct the student and the student feels encouraged? know, encouraged to try to do better. Encouraged because, you know, you're helping them or defeated like, I suck at this. You know, when you correct somebody, I think you can have one or two things, right? Does the person now think they suck at it or does the person now realize, no, it's steps.
You know, and we're going to do this and you're going to get better and stronger and that sort of thing. I'm hearing inspired versus discouraged. Correct.
Jeremy (30:40.552)
I had a student, she was in the top 10 of her class, her graduating class in high school. And the school did this banquet thing with the top 10 and they had to invite a mentor who came along and helped them and she invited me and I was very flattered because she grew up in the same high school I did and I was unaware they did dinner for the top 10 because I wasn't invited when I was there. In fact, the principal remembered me 15 years later.
But one of the things she said that really it hit hard for me at the time was she said one of the best things about Mr. W is that he and I are a team and we get through it together. And I think that that's one of ways that you know you're teaching with love is they don't see teacher and student to say you're a team, you're in this together. For the betterment
both, but she's really expecting me to contribute to her, not the other way around. And so I think that that's important too, is that they're inspired and they feel like they're part of the process, not just experiencing it. The student needs the teacher and the teacher needs the student. That's what I'm hearing. Yep.
Jeremy (32:00.966)
Anybody got anything to add? The faces suggest some combination of finality and hunger. I'm not gonna score where those are sitting, but I wanna make sure I'm not cutting anybody off. There's more you wanna add. I think we've pretty much touched it. And I really liked hitting with this board of people and other that. Because they all have great legacies.
We're gonna go have some more great conversation that won't be recorded. And Margarita's. Kelly. Tomorrow! a beverage. Thank you everyone for watching and worth listening. Yeah, they have me at eight o 'clock. Whistlecake .com? Eight? Eight. Yeah. eight thirty. Podcast fifteen.