Episode 936- Sensei Josh Hodges
In today's episode Jeremy sits down and chats with Sensei Josh Hodges, a Shotokan practitioner from Tampa, FL.Sensei Josh Hodges - Episode 936
SUMMARY
In this conversation, Jeremy discusses with Sensei Josh Hodges his martial arts journeys and the importance of training and personal growth. Sensei Hodges touches on topics such as the value of effort and perseverance, the role of organizations in martial arts, and the need for individualization in training. He also explores the concept of mastery and the importance of personalizing one's martial arts practice. In this conversation, Sensei Hodges discusses the importance of principles in martial arts training and how they can be applied across different styles. He emphasizes the value of persistence and the idea that progress looks different for everyone. He also shares his experience of training independently and the challenges of balancing martial arts with other responsibilities. The conversation highlights the importance of finding what works for you and not comparing yourself to others.
TAKEAWAYS
* Effort and perseverance are key in martial arts training
* Organizations can provide structure but may also limit individual growth
* Mastery occurs outside the realm of memorization
* Personalization and individualization are important in martial arts practice *Principles in martial arts are universal and can be applied across different styles and techniques.
* Persistence is key in martial arts training, and progress looks different for everyone.
* Training independently allows for flexibility and adapting to personal priorities and schedules.
* Finding what works for you and not comparing yourself to others is important in martial arts and in life.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and Background
11:19 Getting Started in Martial Arts
23:15 Exploring Mastery in Martial Arts
26:33 The Role of Organizations in Martial Arts
30:36 The Importance of Personalization in Training
31:24 Introduction and the Importance of Principles
36:06 Teaching Principles and the Value of Basics
39:21 Training Independently and Balancing Priorities
45:47 The Everlasting Journey of Martial ArtsShow Notes
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Show Transcript
Jeremy (00:04.942)
What's going on everybody? Welcome it's Whistlekick martial arts radio and today I'm joined by Josh Hodges. Josh, thanks for being here. We're gonna start our chat in just a minute to the audience. I appreciate you being here. Thanks for spending some time with Josh and I. And if you love what we do, if martial arts is a thing that's important to you and you believe as I do that the world would be a better place if more people trained, well then head on over to whistlekick .com and check out the things that we do and maybe consider supporting us in something that we do.
And if you want to go deeper on this or any episode we've ever done, whistlekickmartialartsradio .com is the place to go for that. Well, Josh, welcome to the show.
Josh Hodges (00:45.518)
Not glad to be here. Good to meet you, Jeremy.
Jeremy (00:47.726)
It's great to meet you as well. Thanks for coming on. You know, I have this very weird job in that I talk to people like this and we go zero to 60, right? We start with, I don't know you. I don't get this whole dossier on you. It's not like a job interview where I get a resume and I do all this research. And if anybody out there has been paying attention to the show for a while knows I don't do any research.
intentionally because the audience doesn't do research before they listen to the show. And so I try to put myself in their place.
But here we are, two guys, and I know that we both love martial arts, and that's all I know to start with.
Josh Hodges (01:32.43)
That's a good start. So, yeah, great to be on the show. I've known Andrew for a number of years. In fact, when I was, I was in the military and I've done a lot of training before that. And my sensei at the time said, you're joining the military, it's going to wreck your martial arts training. And sure enough, it changed the scope of it. But when I got out of the service, I ended up working in New England.
Jeremy (01:33.646)
Yeah.
Jeremy (01:55.31)
Mm -hmm.
Josh Hodges (02:00.238)
And at the place I was at, a very rural area in New Hampshire, there were really no, I mean, there was some martial arts, but it was nothing that was like, it wasn't what I was looking for. So I put a, a Craigslist, that Craigslist was a big thing back then. I put an ad out and then Andrew said, yeah, I like martial arts. And I said, well, let's, let's meet together. And then we, we just met and trained a couple of times. And then, here we are several years later, connected sort of. Yeah.
Jeremy (02:26.894)
what a riot. Yeah. You know, the audience has gotten bits and pieces about Andrew's journey over the years with the show. And, you know, I've heard bits and pieces. But I don't think I knew this part.
So it sounds like he wasn't actively training at the time? And the two of you connected? Okay.
Josh Hodges (02:44.526)
Yeah, it was.
I think he, I think he was, I don't know. He was in Walpole. I was down near Brattleboro and I was, I began teaching around that time and I initially started teaching at, let's see, what was it? It was one of the colleges. It was Landmark College in Putney and it was a real.
Jeremy (02:54.702)
Yep. Yep.
Jeremy (03:09.422)
Mm -hmm.
Josh Hodges (03:13.806)
cool experience. It was like one of my first times teaching on my own. I previously when I trained, since I had like handed the keys over to me, it's like, okay, you train a lot. You like training, come in and clean up and you know, we'll waive some of the fees. and I'll need you to help clean, teach some of the kids classes. So that was kind of like my first exposure, kind of getting ushered into the process of teaching. Yeah. Yeah. It's a,
Jeremy (03:38.958)
you and so many others, you stick around long enough and they give you a job. It's kind of what we do at Whistlekick too.
Josh Hodges (03:43.47)
Sure.
Right. And then, so I got into this gig, and I was actually talking to one of my sensei, and he said, man, there's just nothing up here. He says, like, well, why don't you start teaching? You've been doing this long enough. Just go up there and do it. Like, whoa, okay. Do I need a license? No, just go do. That's how you learn. And it was a great experience, but it was a cool place. The college was immaculate.
Jeremy (04:05.166)
just do.
Josh Hodges (04:15.054)
And at the same time, I was also got a gig teaching at, a co another college in Vermont. It was more of a performing arts school. And I taught at the dance department and this was, and I started seeing these dancers, like I teach them and then like, man, they're really picking up on this. I must be a good teacher, but no, they just had such a body and awareness already. Cause they're like studying dance professionally and then just happened to do martial arts through a little.
Jeremy (04:40.462)
It can be both.
Josh Hodges (04:45.006)
Elective and like and I got kind of a big head these guys are great and then like then I other real quick, you know, but No, it was it was a cool experience. Landmark was for kids with different styles of learning and it was autism and a DD ADHD and you had to really change your approach and you know, honestly, we teach in a group setting but I
Jeremy (04:49.134)
Hahaha!
Josh Hodges (05:12.814)
you have to reach each individual. So you still have to kind of fine tune to each individual. And here, this was just sort of like amplified that need. And it was a trial by fire and it started off strong. And then after a year, maybe two years, it kind of dwindled and someone came in with a mixed martial arts class and that took precedence. So I ended up going a different route and taught a little closer to where we were in.
New Hampshire. It was actually, we lived like New Hampshire. I had to do a grocery shopping in Vermont and I worked in Massachusetts. So we were down in there and like, you know, where I live now in Florida, that just like blows people's minds that you could get three states or what day. But yeah, that was kind of the start.
Jeremy (05:59.023)
That's that Brattleboro corner. Yeah. Okay. So that tells us how you got teaching. What about, let's rewind the tape even more. How'd you get started training?
Josh Hodges (06:11.342)
Alright, let's step in the way back machine. So I think maybe I was 6, 7, and then I had a cousin that was like, I was the only child. So when my cousin who was about my same age, maybe a year older, came down, whatever he was into, I was immediately into it. It was like, you like X -Men comic books? Yeah, that's my thing too. you like GI Joe? Yes, that's my thing, right? So he showed up and he said, he's been doing karate.
Jeremy (06:31.726)
Hmm.
Josh Hodges (06:41.614)
Cool and like I want to learn about it and everything and my parents like yeah. Yeah, okay Well, we'll see karate's expensive and like, you know, it's impulsive thing kid, whatever but I kept on asking about it and what really sealed it was like When he got out of it, I got his fur his key and it had this dragon on the back It was so cool and you know like so they took me to the elementary school where they were teaching karate at that time it was
kids and adults all together. And it was mostly adults. So I'm a young fella, seven, eight years old, something like that. And I was watching it fascination, a little scary. These guys are mean business, very strict. And I think I was done after their first kia, like this earth shattering, all this room and then, And I was like, my parents said that I cried and I needed to go home at that point. So.
That was my first experience into starting martial arts training.
Jeremy (07:41.198)
To those of you out there who say, key eyes, key ups, whatever you want to call it, don't work, there's your proof. You can terrify children if nothing else.
Josh Hodges (07:46.894)
Yeah, you can scare kids like no pro - Noah. Yeah. No, but then I got back into it like a buddy of mine said, hey, there's a dojo in town. We need to train. And like at the time, gosh, like the popular culture thing of karate kid, karate kid two, Ninja Turtles. And I guess that was just coming out. And I guess professional wrestling was like a big thing for kids at that time too. So like.
Yeah, we definitely need to learn martial arts. Of course we need to learn martial arts. So me and my buddy got into it at local dojo and it was, next to a shoe repair store and an old abandoned little part of strip mall kind of thing. And I remember there were holes in the drywall. They had a, a punching bag and one of the century little stretch machines.
and then just a floor and it was a tile floor and that was it and we we what's that?
Jeremy (08:47.022)
Was there an awkwardly placed post? Was there an awkwardly placed post?
Josh Hodges (08:53.134)
I don't recall, but it wouldn't surprise me. You know, memory's not serving too well, but it was, you know, not your standard yard type of thing, but man, we trained so hard. It seemed at the time it was like, you know, since I walked around with the Shani horse stance, you break your horse stance, you get a little whack on the leg. And I think would probably be frowned upon. And today, and I don't know if that's a, it's a method. I don't know if that's the method.
Probably not preferred at this point in time, but that's what we had. We were exposed to it and like, regardless of rank, age, whatever, every Saturday you fought and we would, you know, put on gear and fight. And it was, it was Shotokan karate in name, but this was in South Georgia where I grew up. So it's Shotokan karate, karate or karate, K -R -A -T -Y karate. It was, and then we would speak Japanese in a Southern accent.
eichi ni san chi. It was a unique experience. It was wonderful. A lot of kids involved. Gosh, you don't realize how spoiled we are today with the amount of information and YouTube and the internet and the research. And you can actually look somebody, talk to a master or talk to someone who's been training for a long time. You know, we...
We had Sensei Carter and we had the one Karate Do Kouhan copy and we had Black Belt Magazine and the Century Martial Arts catalog. That's it. That's what we had and we did that and it was great and we waited for Chuck Norris movies to come out and Van Damme movies to come out and we loved it. And I did that till I was about 16 from
a young age there and took a break because of you know soccer whatever competing interests that the 16 year olds have and I remember coming back one night after being off and it was fight night and I took a spinning heel kick right to my nose leveled me and I got a crooked nose from it now so that was that was my last training at that dojo.
Josh Hodges (11:19.886)
for a while and then, you know, graduated high school, got into college, got back into it, started over at White Belt and, you know, kind of had another false start there. And then as soon as I graduated college, I got back into it and have been doing it ever since. So that's probably 25 years ago. Just like pretty steady training. The last couple of years, I haven't really been in a dojo per se.
or had a particular sensei, but I've had folks that I train with on a regular basis at some point or another. And, yeah. primarily trained Shotokan karate. there was a time when I was in the Navy, where I moved around a lot. There might not be a Shotokan dojo in the particular area. So I find something, I trade Wado for a little bit and that's very similar. same name, same, the forms are the same, the stance is slightly different.
but then, was very fortunate when I went to, my duty station in Virginia and Norfolk, there was a dojo right outside the, in Newport news, right outside the shipyard. And so our ship was in the shipyard for a lot longer than it was supposed to be, which caused a lot of grief on another level, but in stress. But,
The dojo was right there and it was the same thing every time I had the time off and that door was open. I was there. and like, I mean, for a while there, it was a season where I was training six nights a week and it was just sort of like eat, breathe, sleep, drink, eat, breathe, sleep, you know, you know, kind of thing for a while. And, you know, ended up teaching there a little bit and had the key to the dojo.
It was just, it was a pretty cool, unique time. And it was neat because like, that was a larger organization. They were tied into a larger organization and they're, they're head guy who's like, there's pictures of him, flirting around with him and standing next to Funakoshi. He's the one that actually came down like three times a year and like would do like clinics and belt tests. And that's how I, my first, my,
Josh Hodges (13:40.814)
Don test was under him and it was just just a really cool experience like to see this 80 year old man That's had this wealth of experience like kind of critique you asking questions and then you know It was it was amazing, you know This is this individual would just even close to 80 would do a full split and then pop up front kick and just like Wow, that's how it can be and I guess there's like there's certain gifted individuals that these that
you know, can do this, but it also takes a lifetime of dedication and everything. It's just, it's amazing. and it just sort of blew my mind. just being exposed to what's out there. And I've been fortunate enough to train a couple of places where I got to meet a couple of these, like, I guess what you call masters or whatever. And, you know, I don't know them by any means, not claiming any credit or for having been there, but just, just to like, to see it in person, it's like,
There's a feeling that changes in the room when some of these guys walk in. Yeah. And I kind of like it to the, you remember the Star Wars movie? It's like one of the reboots, I guess, from the early 2000s where Yoda kind of hobbles in there and then he draws the lightsaber and he's bouncing all over the walls. Right. And then like it's back to normal. And then you can kind of see that same kind of analogy here. I mean, these guys aren't bounce off the walls, but like,
Jeremy (14:59.886)
It's the best part of that movie.
Josh Hodges (15:09.422)
the energy that would come in these old men when they got out on the floor and just like did Heian Shodan or a simple kata or one step and then they hobble off and like just are an old man again. But it's pretty cool.
Jeremy (15:26.638)
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of the term master in the context of martial arts, but what you're describing that is mastery, right? That I, that, cause you can feel it, right? And anybody that's, that's been around someone who truly has mastered any skill, I don't care if it's martial arts or cooking or, you know, an amazing, massage therapist, you can feel the difference.
just by sharing the room with them while they're doing the thing that they are incredibly great at. And I love that feeling. I love being around people like that. I don't care what it is. I don't care if it's somebody who is playing music that I don't even particularly enjoy. I wanna be in the room, because I wanna be around that feeling. I thrive on that energy. It's great.
Josh Hodges (16:01.454)
yeah.
Josh Hodges (16:17.07)
Yeah, there's something about like, and I, someone described this to me as like, you know, you take a seed and you look at a tiny little seed and there's like, there's all this potential right there. And if you follow the right formula, you put it in the ground. You know, there's a potential for a martial artist and it's, you put them in the dojo or the dojo or the school and repeat and like engage, you know, like.
Some people are going to bloom into one thing, but then like those that already have that potential, wow, it's something else, right? You know, myself, I, I'm an enthusiastic hobbyist. I don't make any claims of mastery. I, or that I can beat anybody up or anything like that for sure. but, even at the time I was training so much and I was kind of average at best, but it's just like, there's, there was a quote.
Jeremy (16:51.47)
Yeah.
Josh Hodges (17:15.086)
from, gosh, I'm gonna forget his name, Kurt Vonnegut, right. He tells a story about how he was a kid and he was on some sort of field trip or something and he's talking with one of the counselors there and the guy's like, well, what do you do? He's like, well, I play clarinet, but I'm not very good at it. And he's like, what? That's not the point. The point is you're doing something, you're enriching. Do you enjoy it? Yeah, I enjoy it. Well, that's it, that's the point.
You know, you've, you're a more interesting person. You're more enriched because you do these things. And it's not about the competition of, you know, it doesn't necessarily have to be about a competition or have to be about mastery. But, you know, there's, there's something I'm rambling, but it is something about like fulfilling your potential, whatever that may be. And I think pursuing anything and in this case, martial arts or music or whatever.
There's something about putting the time in, pursuing that discipline. It's very rewarding.
Jeremy (18:21.998)
Yeah, I think.
The contemporary modern world, the social media world, has convinced people that unless you are the best at anything, you shouldn't be doing it. Which of course eliminates the ability to learn how to do something.
Josh Hodges (18:43.278)
Yeah, that's 99 % of the people.
Jeremy (18:45.006)
which is...
both ridiculous and illogical, right? Because how do you get good at anything? And one of the examples when I'm teaching seminars, a lot of what I'm doing is helping people think about how to think about martial arts or how to train martial arts, how to get better at martial arts. And I often use the example, I've never seen anyone yell at a baby for failing to stand up when they're learning how to stand up or to walk or to run, right? I've never heard anybody say, you're a stupid baby.
stop wasting your time, and yet so many people will do that. And the worst case is when we do it to ourselves.
Josh Hodges (19:26.926)
Yeah.
Jeremy (19:28.782)
And yet, how do you get better at anything? You have to suck first. You have to be terrible at it before you can be good. And if you stumble on one of those rare examples where you're really good at something out of the gate, well, then your potential is that much more than everyone else.
Josh Hodges (19:45.998)
Yeah, and sometimes, you know, I've seen that with kids in classes that that's sometimes almost a stumbling block. Like to be for it to come easy to you. You know, you need to challenge them that much more. And sometimes a classroom setting, you not might not be able to do that because you've got to bring every long along and, you know, like they burn bright, but they burn out, you know, and that's that's a shame. But, you know, that's not always the case. It's just speaking generally.
here. You know, and that kind of reminded me what you're... Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead.
Jeremy (20:16.366)
Yeah. Well, I want to, I'd like to address that because we have a good number of instructors and this is something I don't know that we've talked about before, but I've, I've observed it enough and I feel it's worth mentioning that tends to happen in my observation because the instructors praise the result, not the effort. So you get all these other kids who are people, right? Doesn't just have to be kids. You get all these.
students who are not very good. And so the instructors will say, you're working really hard. Good job. Keep working hard. And they're praised for their effort. And then you get somebody else who has a lot of natural talent and the instructor will praise the result. And then when they get to a point, and in my experience, it's usually that advanced phase before black belt, they hit this wall where they're...
Natural talent doesn't quite carry them all the way, but they haven't built the discipline muscles and They're frustrated and they quit and so we as instructors have to make sure That we're even if you're saying wow, you're really good at this We have to make sure that we're praising the effort that the effort is the priority
Josh Hodges (21:39.598)
Yeah, that's a good point too. And it's like, it's, there's a lot of variability in there too, right? You know, I think of like the example of like, well, why did little Johnny get promoted and my little Billy not, and Billy's better than Johnny, you know, like, you know, the, that, particularly with kids dealing with parents and their perceptions, it adds a whole nother couple of layers to that onion too. So yeah, it's definitely something to be mindful of that.
Jeremy (21:46.446)
Of course.
Jeremy (22:05.454)
Mm -hmm.
Josh Hodges (22:09.518)
But you're encouraged, you're giving the reinforcement for the thing you want to see, right? And ultimately the thing you want is the effort and putting them the time and work because it's not an end game. I have black belt, I won, game over, right? It's an infinite game, right? You want to continually, continual improvement, right? That's, I think about...
And I've used this example teaching the kids, and I remember back in boot camp, and I was lousy, lousy sailor, lousy military guy. I didn't have the right mindset for that. And that's me, you know, but I know the shining of the boots in boot camp. I'm like, what a mindless, worthless waste of time and my effort. And I would get it just enough to pass inspections. When they looked down the row,
And there's a kid that has put a mirror finish on a leather boot. Like, what did he do different than what I did? it's persistence. That's what it was. You know, it's just like continually like little circles, continual persistence. And you know, he's like, I just ran out of time. That's as shiny as I could get it. You know, this is someone that was painish. If he'd given enough time, he could have made it better, incrementally better and better and better. You know, and I think that's just.
Jeremy (23:15.47)
Hmm.
Josh Hodges (23:34.126)
pretty good analogy you're constantly polishing it's all gonna be a little bit shiny as we constantly polish so yeah so something you said kind of reminded me about like you know we were kind of talking about how individuals have to be treated a little different to kind of fulfill their potential you know I look back at this is my kind of my tangent like be having been part of major
Jeremy (23:39.886)
There's always room.
Josh Hodges (24:04.014)
karate organizations out of Japan. There's a structure and there's a right way to do a thing.
And then, and if it's not the doctrine, then you're wrong. You know, and if you disagree, apostate. All right. And that's, once again, generalities, a little over the top, but there's some truth to that. But if you look back at Thunakoshi, the only pictures we have of him are of doing martial arts. He's an old man, much higher stances. Doesn't look like anything like the Shotokan karate today. But if you look at all his first generation students,
Each one of them did it a little different than each other because they definitely each had different aptitudes, abilities, and things that, you know, different bodies. And it seems to me, just using logic, that maybe they were taught that way by their teacher to do it a little different because it served them better. And, you know, that's the good thing about an organization is because you get this wealth of knowledge.
But it's great to start you off because you have this structure. But at some point, it becomes shackles, right? And that's kind of the thing that I've, my complaint or the pondering so that I have about it, you know, the Fu -Ha -Ri analogy there of like,
And the movie that I think it analyzes in modern times best is the Lego movie. Because he goes from like, no, it must be done this way. And I think of Legos, you got to do the, you got to put the instructions just like this. And you follow the instructions every time, but at some point you don't need the instructions. And then at some point you're like, well, I know how these bricks work. I can put it together any way I want. And that's kind of gets to that idea of mastery. You know, you don't necessarily.
Josh Hodges (26:12.654)
have to follow the step one, step two at that point. And I think organizations are great at establishing that step one, step two, but in the administration of it, they kind of, I think it's a model that's at some point it can become a hindrance, but anyway, that's.
Jeremy (26:33.102)
I think mastery occurs outside the realm of memorization, right? And what you're talking about with, you know, a lot of your larger mainstream martial arts organizations, especially the ones that seem to come out of Japan and Korea, there is that right way, that wrong way. And if we take a look at post -World War II Japan, the Japanese got really, really good at building out systems.
Josh Hodges (26:37.102)
yeah, yeah.
Josh Hodges (27:02.894)
Mm -hmm.
Jeremy (27:03.726)
that scaled incredibly well with very high quality.
Josh Hodges (27:09.326)
A Ritz -Oreo model, yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy (27:10.222)
And exactly, exactly, if we take a look at automobiles, you know, the Japanese are incredible at building really high quality, relatively low cost for the quality vehicles. But if I want a, if I want something that is artistic, if I want a craftsman to create a car, if I want a true master, one person to create a car.
gonna pay a lot more money for it, it's gonna look different, and it's gonna violate every single one of the principles that made that system work when we're talking about its scale. And I think it makes a lot of sense. If I'm teaching classes, if I've got my students, I want all of my students to learn pinon choron the same way. But when they've been doing it for five, six years, I want them to start making some tweaks. I wanna see...
Josh Hodges (28:01.582)
yeah, you have to. Order.
Jeremy (28:08.174)
the core of what I gave them in there. But I think if I don't see some personalization in there, some nuance, then they're probably just trying to mimic me and that's only gonna take them so far. I want them to be the best version of them, not a poor version of me.
Josh Hodges (28:23.182)
Yeah.
Josh Hodges (28:27.95)
Yeah, that's true. Cause like I saw that, with organizations, I was in like with a Shotokan in particular. at the time I was coming up, Mr. Nishiyama was a big deal, big name, pioneer brought Shotokan to the United States, particularly the West coast. And, you know, in the nineties and the early two thousands, before his passing, he was like, you know, he's an old dude.
And old people, even if you're.
incredible at karate, you're an old dude and you're not going to move the same. But his students, you would look at them and they kind of move like that old guy or at least a certain generation of them did, right? It was a generation that you looked a little different, but you know, they would have higher stances because, you know, an 80 year old guy is going to have higher stances. So yeah, there's a lot of that going on. And yeah, that was kind of, you know, I've always had like a stocky body type.
And one of my instructors is just like all in lean, you know, like, and we're just not going to move the same. Although he still was like one of the best instructors I had. My karate is not going to look like his. It's just the physics of it's not what we're insane.
Jeremy (29:46.702)
It shouldn't because you each have advantages and disadvantages in your body type depending on how you're implementing things. If you're more stocky and shorter, your center's a little lower, you've got some mass, you can apply that in certain ways, whereas maybe a taller person can stay further out and use distance to their advantage. And it's not that one is better, it's that this is the reality in front of me.
Take an extreme example, if I'm missing an arm, I'm not gonna spar the way you spar. I can't, it'd be ridiculous to try. I've gotta do some things differently.
Josh Hodges (30:22.062)
Mm -hmm.
Josh Hodges (30:26.03)
Yeah. Well, that's the thing with sparring. You've got to play your own game. When you start playing the other person's game, it's cat and mouse and you're the mouse, you know, at that point. So, yeah, it's, and that's the beautiful thing about it. And I, I reflate it back to like, it works great with analogies because like, you know, you've talked about music, you know, it's the same thing, you know.
Jeremy (30:36.27)
You're the mouse for sure. Yeah.
Josh Hodges (30:53.902)
when someone who's really good, if they're just sticking to scales in a very rote way, that's not going to sound very good. They may can do a scale great, but when somebody just like breaks free and can just improv improv anything, wow, that's where it's at. At least that's that's a level of something. You know, it's kind of hard to say like martial arts is one thing too, because you know, I think there's a lot of complaints, or I hear a lot of complaints.
And maybe I may have contributed some of these complaints about the current state of tournament and man They don't do it like they used to but man, it's much garbage point tag, but you don't know they're incredible athletes out there doing some amazing things but That's not the martial arts. I was broken. It's a little different but they're doing some really cool things It's just another little aspect of it's a facet of it You know, you're looking at it from a different angle and you just give that facet of it but
Jeremy (31:24.622)
Heheheheh
Josh Hodges (31:50.702)
It's really cool. The analogy of, you know, we're all kind of climbing that mountain. And, you know, depending on what route you take, it's going to look different every time. I get a brief exposure to some Chinese martial arts when I was in college and a young man. And the more I learned about that, the more I found that there's a lot.
gosh, you only have two arms and two legs, there's gonna be a lot of similarities. But the approach was pretty neat. Like when you get down to principles, the principles are gonna work no matter how you apply it. And that's the way when I would teach, I would like try to, I was a boring teacher. I really was, because I would focus on principles. You know, I was all about like, you know, I guess for baseball, I'd be like, no, let's talk about batting practice. Let's talk about, you know, you know, so,
But like, you know, one of the principles was like body alignment, connecting breath to your movement. Gee, that kind of works with any number of things, martial arts, whatever your flavor. And I thought that was just so cool. And like they had the approach of like weaponize your entire body. Huh. Well, if you take that approach when you're trying to figure out Kata what that means.
That puts a whole new spin on it. Like the punches and always a punch, maybe like the drawing back and now I'm elbowing, you know, like whatever's close to someone can now be attack or defense. You know, like, I thought that was cool. And one of the other aspects of it, it was never really explained to me in other anywhere else, but it makes a lot of sense. It's like we would train to, we were so tired. We couldn't force with strength anymore. We would just be physically exhausted and.
then we would do another set. And that's when we had to learn to kind of cheat because in the cheating of like, okay, I got to make my stance longer, I have to make my arm work because I just can't put any strength anymore. Well, in that cheating, that's how you actually learned the principle behind what the thing was, you were doing with the thing. And I just thought that was pretty cool. And it's funny, I did...
Josh Hodges (34:12.942)
This is a side and I bounce around like a pinball machine with some of this. I apologize.
Jeremy (34:16.622)
You listen to the show, you know, this is a hallmark of what we do. I just let people loose and we can just call this all tangents.
Josh Hodges (34:19.79)
But like, I had this really cool class. This guy came over from UK and he was a professor of kinesiology. And I think I'm saying that word right. I've only read it. But anyway, he knew all about biomechanics and movement and PhD teaching college courses. I don't know.
maybe 30 years martial arts experience in Shotokan karate. And like his explanation was like, you hit the thing with the thing. And I'm like, when he did it, I understood. But you know, like, this is college level communication, the thing with the thing. Okay, great. And he made the point and it made sense. So anyway.
Jeremy (35:06.254)
I had a Latin teacher who got really excited. We got to a certain point where there were two words we could string together that meant just about anything. And I think it was basically, do the thing. I think that's kind of the best generic way to translate it now. And he pretty much told us that we could use that as a cheat on just about anything moving forward. It was an interesting class and an interesting teacher.
Josh Hodges (35:18.606)
Yeah.
Jeremy (35:36.206)
So let's kind of go back. You talked about something I want to get into a little bit more with.
with principles and the idea of teaching principles and you expressed that that made you a boring teacher, which I think I took a little bit of offense to because I'm a teacher of principles and now I'm hopeful that people don't think I'm a boring teacher. So talk to us. What do you mean by teaching principles? We'll start there.
Josh Hodges (36:06.382)
Well, maybe there's not a causality there between that. I am a boring teacher, and I do teach principles. So maybe that doesn't hold true for you. So I think, you know, I just, I would...
Jeremy (36:10.47)
Maybe you teach principles and you are bored.
Josh Hodges (36:24.302)
And I think you'd see this with like, or I would see it when I go to a clinic, room full of black belts and we all do a white belt cod for now.
and this like happened again and again and I'm like, huh, usually in school when the teacher emphasizes the same point again and again, there's something to that, right? So I'm like, what's going on here? We were talking about contraction and expansion. I'm like,
Hard and soft movements. Okay, so there's something to that. And if you take these principles, they can explain why you're doing this crazy thing with your arm here. If you understand the principle behind contraction and expansion and dropping weight and rotational energy and then shifting and things like that.
Josh Hodges (37:23.79)
then you're not just like flilling your arms and legs about, you're actually doing something, you're becoming a lever, you're becoming, you know, part of your opponent when you move or delivering a punch more solid or with your full body, not just your hand or your arm or your shoulder or whatever. So that's kind of what I mean by principles without like getting into it terribly deep, but I just thought that was just like the mechanics of
Jeremy (37:43.626)
That makes sense.
Josh Hodges (37:52.718)
how everything works, if you understand that, you can do something simple or something complex and it'll still work the same, right? It's the same formula. I had a teacher that would say, you're only as good as you are at your basics. And boy, that kept coming up again and again too, right? So there must be something to that.
Jeremy (38:19.918)
What's the root word in basics? Base. How do you build a tall building? Strong foundation. How do you make a building taller? Make sure you stabilize the foundation.
Josh Hodges (38:27.63)
Yeah, absolutely. You know, it still takes that and that's...
Josh Hodges (38:33.694)
yeah. And that's a truism, you know, across many things. And that's why martial arts is so great because it does have that universal appeal from that. But you know, just like there's a, when you look at it, it's almost philosophical because yeah, you gotta practice the basics to get good at what you want to do, whether it's business or music or, you know, whatever.
Jeremy (39:02.51)
Absolutely.
So I think I heard you say towards the beginning that you're independent. Now you're training on your own, you're responsible for your own training. Not that you're training solo, but you are dictating how you're training.
Josh Hodges (39:21.006)
Yeah, and then part of that's a choice and part of it's just like, you know, as I've grown older and have a family and a nine to five job that doesn't involve martial arts, and I'm not really teaching anymore, like kind of COVID put the kibosh on that and just never got back into teaching after that. And so my priorities have shifted to like, okay, I still want to train, but...
I also have my kids the HR. I probably need a little more family time. The weekend being the only time that I'm at home with them. And I don't personal choice. I don't choose to drive 45 minutes in the car to train an hour to drive 45 minutes back. And that's kind of, that's what it would be.
Jeremy (40:08.91)
Yeah, we have eliminated them out of time in our day, in our life, and we've got to allocate that in a way to make it work.
Josh Hodges (40:14.03)
Yeah, and that's kind of where I'm at. And, you know, believe it or not, as the universe works out, when I took this job here down in Tampa, Florida, I got put in an office in the office right next to me. It's a gentleman that's been training Shotokan karate for 30 years.
to find someone that's been training for a long time at any martial art, but not much less the same. And like, hey, we've got a gym at work. We start the day at seven. Why don't we just meet like at six and, you know, just go through some kata? Yeah, sure. So we kind of do that on a fairly regular basis when schedules allow. So that's kind of, that's where I'm getting my, my fix right now and have been for like the past two or three years.
Jeremy (40:59.714)
that's really cool.
Josh Hodges (41:00.814)
So yeah, it has just worked out that way. There are some cool folks in the area here where I'm at where they do like a weekend black belt gathering type of thing. And that's about an hour north of me. And I've done that. I haven't done it a little while now just because of schedule, but you know, kind of keep in touch with them. There's a really great instructor just south of me, but.
I just can't seem to make it on the schedule because he teaches Wednesdays and Sundays, but I have trained down there a few times. But yeah, I'm cool with where I'm at with it. But it's just like my priorities have shifted. I'm not going to be in a dojo five, six days a week now. Maybe if there was one down the street, maybe if it was the right one. But geography and schedule have dictated this is where I'm at and it's working out pretty good.
Jeremy (41:54.702)
And you know, this is one of the things that I think is so important.
because people get an idea in their mind of what being an active martial artist means. And that if you're not checking all of those boxes, whatever boxes they think they need to check, then people either feel guilty and they'll get defensive or they quit. And I look at that and I think it's so silly. You know, defensive is one thing. I can work with that. I can tell you, look, you know, I'm just happy you're training. But when people quit,
because they can't do five, 10, 20 hours a week. They can only do two or one or an hour a month. An hour a month is better than zero hours a month.
Josh Hodges (42:41.054)
yeah.
Jeremy (42:43.598)
It doesn't matter what you're doing that maybe you're not progressing. And I've heard people say that, well, you know, I just didn't feel like I was training enough to progress. Okay, so you're just going to completely regress? How about staying the same? That's worthwhile. You worked hard to get to that point.
Josh Hodges (42:43.694)
Well,
Josh Hodges (42:56.878)
But you know.
Josh Hodges (43:03.342)
Yeah, I mean.
progressing is What does that mean? I mean we're moving towards our goal or you know, maybe our priorities have shifted and like You know, I'm I'm still learning or relearning the kata that I have that I've been doing for a long time and If I can do it one time and like Hmm, that was kind of cool. You know, you're still like you're scratching that edge, but I think you're still There's there's more ways to grow right?
You know, like you watch like a root structure. If there's an obstruction there, it finds a different way, you know, there's a lot of ways to grow. And the idea, like what you're saying of progress, well, if I hadn't been in a tournament, then you're not really doing karate. Well, okay, by your definition, I'm not doing karate, but I'm okay with your, your definitions, maybe for you. And I'm okay with what I'm doing. And I think that's, yeah. And.
Jeremy (43:58.83)
you get to define martial arts for you.
Josh Hodges (44:04.238)
It's
Josh Hodges (44:08.238)
I think it, I remember, you know, when I would travel, we had a family in Los Angeles and we would travel out there and I'll always bring my gi with me. Cause it's just one really cool dojo out there. And I would, I remember I was at the Santa Monica, my wife said, I'll walk the pier with the kids and you know, you're going to go to this dojo here. Like, yeah, yeah. And there was a older guy at dojo and he was like,
And I was like, hey, yeah, I'm just in town visiting. I called ahead and he knew someone that I knew and we kind of, he's like, yeah, yeah, that's cool. He said, so how are your kids? And then he said, yeah. Well, you know what? You'll get back into training in about 18, 20 years. I'm like, okay. You know, that was his take on it. I kind of understood. But, you know, and, you know, I've actually seen that in the dojo too, where you have like a generation that comes in, they're older and then they have.
the time and they're in a stage in life where they can devote more time to it. And maybe I have that in the future. And that's cool if that happens. So.
Jeremy (45:13.422)
Yeah. Yeah. I have got a couple in my school right now that their, their kids reached an age and you know, they're, they're both jumping back into training. And I think one of them had been out for eight years and I think the other had been out for 15 years and it's been really fun watching, watching the excitement, but watching the, you know, the wheels start to click back in. Like you can see it's like, Hey, you just, you just remembered something.
because you're moving really differently than you did last week. And it's cool to watch that.
Josh Hodges (45:47.502)
Yeah, I mean, it's a lifelong or, you know, it can't be a lifelong pursuit. Like it's an art form. I'm definitely, I think with the tournament and the fighting facet of it, that's kind of a little more limited for most people, you know.
Jeremy (46:12.814)
Not everyone wants to get punched in the face. Not everyone wants to get punched in the face.
Josh Hodges (46:15.214)
What's up?
yeah, yeah, I don't mind it, but it's just like, I tell you, I work in safety. If I show up with a busted nose and a black eye, it's a bad look.
Jeremy (46:20.366)
And that's okay.
Jeremy (46:28.11)
Yeah, that's hard to get people to take you seriously when you're showing up and you look like you got rubbed over.
Josh Hodges (46:33.294)
Yeah, yeah, but well.
Anything else? I'm running out of steam here.
Jeremy (46:45.102)
No, that's okay. You're doing great. So we'll start to whine, because I think we did. We talked through your story and the part that I think is most important here, that we've underscored, and we've talked about this on the show, but we haven't talked about it much lately. I really want the audience to hear what Josh is talking about this, because at no point in anything that you've said, Josh, have I considered you less than.
other martial artists or that, you know, I really hope he starts, you know, training differently. Like not, hasn't been one thought along those lines because to me, the beauty of martial arts is that it is as much or as little as you want it to be. And if you're, I was talking to somebody earlier today in an interview and when they started, they were training five hours a day, seven days a week. That's amazing. Great. That's also called a job.
Josh Hodges (47:43.662)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy (47:44.878)
Not everyone has that. And if that's the standard we set, then so few people get to participate and take the benefits of martial arts. You know what? I've seen people become better versions of themselves on day one. I've seen people train a little bit and get some wonderful benefits. And so I think if we remember that there's absolutely no reason that anyone should ever feel like they have to.
Set down martial arts if you choose to that's your thing But I don't want anybody out there to feel like somebody is telling them you don't train enough sue You are not a martial artist. You're not a korethika. You're not whatever and if somebody is telling you that Connect me with them because I'll set the record straight
Josh Hodges (48:31.342)
Well, you know, that goes back to, you know, man, we're here 75, 85 years tops, right? You know, some people, their genetics and health works out, but maybe a little bit more. Unfortunately, some people a little less, but you know, at the end of the day, you know, if you're doing something that you love and you get enrichment from it, that's the beautiful thing of this thing that we're all like, just it.
obsessed or in love with, however you want to call it. And Mike does get in the way sometimes, but it's not really in the way. It's just, you know, your priorities shift. And Sensei Okazaki came up with a little short training kata. And it did all your blocks and all your punches. And then it was the same pattern. It did all your blocks and all your kicks, because if you do it with your hands, you should be able to do it with your feet. That was his thing. And he says,
practice this and he was talking mainly to college students. He said, and this kind of was designed where you could do it basically in place or with a couple of steps. He says college dorms are small. You kids don't have a lot of time in the day. He said, just do this 20 minutes a day and that'd be good karate. And like, and here's a guy devoted his whole life to it. He's preaching the message. Just 20 minutes a day. Just take a little bit. And like the key is persistence.
Jeremy (49:36.238)
Hmm.
Josh Hodges (49:59.278)
And then that's with anything you're, if you're going toward that goal of mastery, it takes persistence. And I think that's the thing that I've heard talking to everyone when you leave the dojo or you leave the clinic or whatever. Hey, keep training. For a long time it was keep training kid, but they still it's dropped off kid, you know, but it's like, keep training, keep training. And that's the key to it. And there was like, there's some story.
And it turns out it's fake, but it's a great story anyway. Of Sun Lutang, who was a Chinese martial arts and Bagua, Xingli, Tai Chi, and all these things. And all his students were gathered around him at his deathbed. And he calls somebody over there. And like he brings him close. And he said, I tell you the secret of martial arts. And like he writes something in his hand, hands it to him, and he dies right there. And they open it up.
It's the character that means practice. Fake story. His daughter actually said, no, that didn't really happen. But that's the story that was promulgated for a while. But it's a good story. And there's something, stories are great too. But it's definitely some truth to that little bit of legend. But yeah. Yeah, keep training.
Jeremy (51:06.702)
That's a good story though.
Jeremy (51:22.062)
If people want to get a hold of you, how might they do?
Josh Hodges (51:25.294)
Well, well, if you're in the Tampa area, come on by. I'm out of the pool. No, I'm on Facebook, but I don't really, I'm not active. I'm mainly looking at far -side cartoons and then people doing martial arts. So, but, you know, I can share my email if anybody's interested and yeah, be happy to.
Jeremy (51:32.814)
Hahaha
Jeremy (51:47.182)
great use.
Jeremy (51:52.142)
Yeah, yeah, if you want to share that, you know, let's not put it in the show notes so you don't get junk, but if you share it in audio, people would have to listen if you're going to do that.
Josh Hodges (52:00.75)
OK, so it would be joshuahodges .safetyatgmail .com.
Jeremy (52:09.742)
Cool, yeah, we'll keep that out of the show notes. Make it easy. I'm gonna throw it back to you in a minute to close us up, but to the audience, I mean, you went on a ride with us today, and I hope that you'll consider.
how many opportunities you had to stop training that you chose not to. I think that's really important for us to all recognize that we're still going. And maybe if you are watching or listening to this during a break, maybe it'll give you some motivation to say, something is better than nothing. If I get up and I practice, you know, my blocks and my kicks for 20 minutes or two minutes or 30 seconds, there's still value in that. And I hope that you'll consider that. And I hope you'll also consider supporting us. Go to whistlekick .com.
Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio .com. Join the Patreon, support us, you can start as little as two bucks a month. So Josh, how do you want to close us up today? We've talked about a bunch of different things, but what do you want to leave the audience with?
Josh Hodges (53:04.686)
well, I like that idea of keep training and you'll get better if you have the most expensive gi. No, that's not it. you know, it's persistence. Just keep at it. And, if you find something you love, pursue it because it, you know, it's enriching. It makes you an interesting person. It gives you like, depth and it gives you character, whether it's martial arts, music or whatever, but, You know, put the effort in. It's worth it.