Episode 927 - Martial Arts and Pop Culture from the 80’s

In this episode, Jeremy and Andrew are joined by Sensei Bill Leith as they discuss pop culture from the 80s and 90s. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Karate Kid, Bloodsport, etc. And then they visit a historic site in New Hampshire!

Martial Arts and Pop Culture from the 80’s - Episode 927

SUMMARY

The conversation explores the impact of martial arts on pop culture in the 80s, discussing cartoons, movies, and TV shows that were influenced by martial arts. It also delves into the authenticity of martial arts in pop culture and the influence it had on the audience. The conversation ends with a humorous discussion about the evolution of technology and entertainment.

TAKEAWAYS

* The influence of martial arts on pop culture in the 80s was significant, with cartoons, movies, and TV shows reflecting this influence.
* The authenticity of martial arts in pop culture had a profound impact on the audience, providing a sense of relevance and social proof.
* The evolution of technology and entertainment has changed the pace and experience of consuming media, leading to a discussion about the balance between modern and nostalgic entertainment experiences.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Exploring Martial Arts and Pop Culture in the 80s
08:45 Authenticity and Influence in Media

After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it.

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Show Transcript

Jeremy (00:00.558)

What's going on everybody another episode of whistle kick martial arts radio and for all I know you might have even clipped out What we just did? No, you didn't you didn't do that? Okay Well, then didn't you go don't get to know how we got here. But on today's episode, we're going to talk about martial arts and pop culture throughout the 80s and the impact of Really we can talk about how each impacted the other and if you are watching which you should be because we

record these in video rather than listening, you'll notice there's a third person. You're not hallucinating. Bill Leith's back on the show. Hello. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. In your school. Welcome. Thanks for being here in your own space. Thanks for letting us be in your space. Thanks for letting us be in your space. Yeah. You know.

shortly after the recording here. And actually, I think we're probably gonna cut this in. We're gonna go grab some footage of the manhole cover, which really was the spark. Was that the first time you and I talked was when you emailed me about that? It was probably the first time we talked more than a quick email setting up an interview with Mr. Durkin, but yeah. Right, right, right, right. So.

Andrew and I have been thinking about martial arts, pop culture, Ninja Turtles, how all of this relates. Because it really, there's so much overlap and cross inspiration. It's hard to separate. Can you imagine 1980s cartoons without martial arts, without fighting, without combat?

Jeremy (02:27.662)

I mean, it existed. You're left with what, My Little Pony? Yeah, I mean, I was thinking that. I mean, because at first I was thinking... Maybe Smurfs? Yeah, Smurfs. Care Bears. Care Bears, yeah. That's a whole other episode. We can talk about the martial implications of the Care Bears Stare on another show.

But you're right, even shows that weren't martial arts, obviously we're talking like Ninja Turtles, something that wasn't quote martial arts, like He -Man and She -Ra, they still had fighting and stuff. There's still a lot of fighting in there. Now...

We need to kind of figure out, the audience, they've been paying attention for a while, they've got a good idea of where we are on Ninja Turtles and movies and things like that, but less so you, so what did you grow up with? Well, I definitely grew up with all that, I mean Ninja Turtles.

kid more through my teens. X -Men. That was huge. That was huge. I believe there was a Spider -Man cartoon in the 90s. Is that correct? Yep. Yep. Yep. There was one in the 80s as well. Okay.

Well, Spider -Man is ageless. Batman, Superman, Justice League, all that stuff kind of pops into mind right now. Absolutely. Yeah. And for me, it was also G .I. Joe. I was big into G .I. Joe, but not all G .I. Joe. I liked all G .I. Joe that had martial arts experience. So obviously everybody knows Snake Eyes, right? He was the and Storm Shadow came along afterwards. They were the two big ones, but there were a lot. And I will I remember I was

Jeremy (04:12.256)

really excited when I found out that Doc.

who went around doing medicine stuff, he was a pacifist, he didn't like to fight, but he trained in Aikido. And I was like, whoa, that's so amazing. So I had to go out and find the doc action figure because he did martial arts just like me as a kid. Just like I wanted that, or Jinx or all of the other ones. If it said they trained in martial arts, I wanted to get that action figure. And you used a phrase that I think is so critically important and we've talked about this. We've already talked about this today in other contexts.

just like me. Right? That's one of the things that I think is so important to youth specifically, but all of us, we want to feel relevant. And when we see somebody on screen, whether it's professional sport or a movie or TV, whether it's live action or animated, if they're doing something that we can do or are trying to do or see ourselves on the path to doing,

It justifies what we're doing. It gives us social proof in a sense. It gives us a path forward. We can look at these people and say, one day I'll be like them. One day, you know, maybe I can do what they're doing or I'm going to try to do what they're doing. And if you don't believe me, take a look at professional sports. If you have a child in the house who is playing basketball, soccer, football, hockey, whatever, they probably have a favorite pro athlete and they probably look at that person.

And they see that person as something to aspire to Was that at all your experience? Grown up. Did you look at Ninja Turtles, etc and say I? Want to keep going I want to be?

Jeremy (05:59.918)

green and eat pizza. My metaphor is breaking down a little bit. We'll go with the pizza part. Trying to put myself in the minds of an eight -year -old, I'm sure subconsciously, maybe me and my brother, we ran around the house pretending to be our favorite Ninja Turtle. Who was? I personally wanted to be Michelangelo, but I think I was more of a Donatello or Leonardo, just knowing myself. My brother was for sure Raphael.

I wanted to be Rafael. I was definitely Donatello. Anybody out there knew me back then? You're not. You know. I competed with a bow and I was a nurse. Did you wear a lot of purple? No.

It was really acceptable for boys to wear purple in the 80s, which, I mean, it seems so silly to say now, but. And if you even go back further, when the Ninja Turtles were created, which, you know, we haven't mentioned that, we've mentioned that we're in your dojo here in Dover, New Hampshire, but the Ninja Turtles were created in Dover. You know, Peter Eastman and Kevin Laird created the comic book when they lived here and they didn't have colors.

there was no right now or or or or or and and in fact rafael first issue didn't fight with side

which was interesting. He later transitioned to Psy and you know they didn't have, you know Michelangelo didn't have an on his belt buckle. Like and they were kind of gritty and mean and they were not, it was not a cartoon for kids. It was not, would not have been. It was more what we would call today a graphic novel rather than a comic book. Gritty. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I will, I related to Raphael when the, when the TV show came out, the cartoon came out, because I definitely got exposure to the cartoon.

Jeremy (07:58.688)

I even had the Raphael learn how to karate.

he taught stances in Japanese. And I trained in a traditional Gojuro school where stances were taught. That's Zenkutsu Dachi. That's the Japanese word for front stance. And in the comic book is Raphael showing you how to do Zenkutsu Dachi. And it says in Japanese, Zenkutsu Dachi. And I was like, this is really cool. Like, again, this is something that I do and I was able to relate to it a lot. Someone did their homework. I was very impressed. I was very impressed. And that's okay.

That's something that always struck me because I assumed, you know, when I learned about the animated show, right, I remember vividly discovering that one day, and then I found out that they were based on comic books. As I got older, I remember thinking, these guys must train. And then I learned only in the last few years, they didn't. To put in so much...

authentic detail rather than just having them randomly using swords. Kind of impressive, right? Like you don't generally see for a kid's cartoon that much authenticity.

I mean, I think I know you well enough to say that you've got a bit of nerd in you, right? Like you would do that if you were going to create something, you'd want it to be authentic. I know that about you, Andrew. I'm certainly the same way. I don't know how many of you in the audience are like that. But if I was going to create something quickly, which I imagine the transition from the comic books to the cartoons were.

Jeremy (09:55.95)

It was fast intentionally because of financial reasons. You know, I might have dropped some things. I might have said, all right, what's faster to draw? Sigh or this stick or this other pointy thing, right? You know, I'm probably a producer at whatever production house and not really caring because if it's on TV, kids will watch it. But there was still so much in there and if you...

look at Master Splinter, right? That's pretty darn authentic too. So there's so much of that flow of real martial arts into pop culture and we see that, you know, what are some of the other places that we see that direction? You know, think about it in terms of TV and movies. In regards to the martial arts? Yeah, the martial arts influencing in an authentic way.

Jeremy (10:51.63)

is like top of the list. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I would agree. I would agree. And again, if you trained martial arts in that time.

How could you not watch that movie and say, that's me, whether you did Gojiru or not? And I only, they've never said in the movie officially that it was Gojiru, but the instructor's name was Miyagi. And then third movie, he does Seinjin, which is Gojiru Kata. So I'm just saying, I think it was Gojiru. But I did, I did Gojiru and I definitely made the connection to his, you know, his instructor's name is Miyagi and Chojin Miyagi is the founder of the,

style that I do like it was hard to not feel that connection and that kinship with Daniel because of that movie for sure for me it was the here's someone else that gets picked on and also does karate and eventually overcomes and they did a really good job with that movie in not just showing that part of it like overcoming challenging overcoming challenges perfecting self but also the

the student teacher relationship between Dan and Miyagi and teaching life values of the martial arts. I think for a lot of people that was the introduction to what the martial arts could do besides just punching and kicking. In such a great introduction, right? Any of us who've been training a while know that most people come for punching and kicking and they stay for other reasons. Absolutely. And that was, as you said, a good introduction to those other reasons.

What other shows? What other shows did we see it move in that direction? So I don't know how much this would have influenced stuff. And it wasn't the show that I watched very much, but The Mighty Morphin Power Rangers have been around forever. I mean, they're still I mean, the actors have changed, but I'm pretty sure the show still exists, like making new movies and things. But when I was a kid, I remember that existed. I didn't get into it personally, but I know a lot of people did. Yeah, it was.

Jeremy (12:54.656)

that was post 80s right because that's I think it was 92 93 yeah when that rolled out and that's why I didn't watch it because I tried you know I had friends that were talking about it and it just it felt a little cheesy a little young yeah for me yeah and I'm in the same was in the same boat I thought

I was definitely the age bracket, me and my brother, that they went for. And it was cheesy, but we still loved it. Right, and I've said on this show many times, Karate Kid is not a good movie, but it is a great movie. Right, just because it's, things can be bigger than the sum of their parts if you find value in it. What was it about Power Rangers that made you say, this is something that I love?

I mean, it was just punching, kicking, explosions. I'm sure there was some life lessons they put in there, but I was too young at the time to catch them. I mean, it was the 90s. I'm sure they put a little after school special in there at some point too. But no, it was just flashy and it was cool stuff happening. There was giant monsters and they all transformed. I mean...

What else could you want? When you're eight years old, I mean, it's kind of all you need. Yeah. Pretty great. Yeah. And I was older when it came out. I would have been in high school when they came out. And all I remember was it was for me, it was too fantastical, which is silly because like I like Ninja Turtles aren't fantastical. Right. So that's a little weird. But I do remember having a crush on the Pink Ranger. Do you remember that?

Jeremy (14:35.406)

Let's talk about the other direction. It's pretty obvious if you look at pop culture in the 80s, you can see the martial arts influence. It was for...

A lot of people, you know, it was the greatest era of martial arts films, right? They were being turned out pretty quickly. You had a lot of franchises that had a lot of sequels. Most of them continued to get worse. I'm not going to say got worse. They continued to get worse because most of the first iterations weren't very good. But there again, we see a lot of movies that we look at through the lens today and say, this is not a good movie. The acting is bad. The

writing is bad the martial arts isn't even very good but it was on screen the first one that comes to me was the American Ninja movies with Michael Dudekoff they made like six or seven of them and the actor ended up changing but I remember like like again he's a ninja like I'm a ninja

I thought of myself as a ninja. I wanted to be a ninja. We all wanted to be ninjas. Absolutely. They were there. And something that we looked up, that I looked up to, not up to, that's not.

I didn't look up to them, but I saw it as a piece of me, part of me. Yeah, part of something that was important to you was represented on screen. Right? And if you're a car person or a horse person or whatever, right, you might go watch a similar, you might watch a movie that revolves around that theme for a similar reason. Yeah.

Jeremy (16:21.166)

For me, it's all the Van Damme movies. I watched them. I'll still watch them. They're still terrible, but they're still fun. What's your favorite Van Damme movie? Probably Kickboxer. Okay. It's a classic. Because I still hurt when I think about him kicking the tree. My shin still hurts when I think about that.

One of Mr. Durkin's students used to do that outside, you know, against an oak tree. This man is top, top martial arts. He doesn't do it anymore. He's preaching 70s. He's like, to Berlin. We were sitting in the dojo one day, and one of the fathers was just sitting there, we were just chatting, and then he says, this is Len Burrow, Mr. Durkin, we'll see him. The student walks in, and they look at each other, and the father goes, Len?

and Chris, I remember you, you were my brother's, you were my neighbor, you were my brother's friend, you used to sit, stand outside the house and just smash this tree with your shin all day. Yeah, that was me. That's funny. For me, my Van Damme movie would be Bloodsport, because I liked the, I liked seeing the different martial arts. The competition at the end where there was the guy running around the ground like a monkey, like that, that sort of stuff I really enjoyed. So that was mine.

Jeremy (17:59.918)

is going to always like to be not a TV show. No, it's a movie. Okay. It's his life is his life is just having the challenges that happen. Interesting. And he just kind of stumbles into a situation where his martial arts may his martial arts may have to be used. And there's a very, very good monologue in and about his feeling about the martial arts and what it means to him. Interesting. I would you can see it. I think it's free on YouTube. At least the the French version of it is free.

on YouTube. Definitely check out a very, very good movie. Interesting. Those are words I've not, I don't think I've ever heard connected. It's a very good Van Damme movie. It's funny because I think nowadays there's...

I hate them saying that sometimes there's too much fighting in martial art movies. There's not enough subtlety with it. It's just nonstop action. I need some plot. I need a reason to care about the outcome of the fight. And it gets redundant at a certain point. And this movie doesn't have all that input. When it has it, it hits the right spot. And a lot of humor, too. A lot of Sean Claude Van Damme humor from the man himself. That's funny. And then the other one that obviously I can't have an episode like this not mention best of the best, which was a great martial arts movie. It's so bad.

It's so bad. It's so good. It's so bad. You're missing out. Don't.

as a kid, do you ever drive by a really bad car accident? Your parents said no? Your mother said put your head down, don't look, and you wanted to look, but you knew if you looked you'd regret it, that's best of all. But then you looked and you saw some really cool things. No, no you didn't. You saw terror anywhere. Horror, that's the word. So maybe a movie I'll put on the back and listen to it first and then see if I want to commit. This is a longstanding joke on the show. I don't know if you caught these episodes, but I'd rather not.

Jeremy (20:12.782)

I think we need to talk about Segal as kind of an interesting bounce in and out, right? Martial arts into pop culture and then back out because...

I would say Seagal was the first time most of us saw on film martial arts that made us go, I think that would work. Right? I wasn't watching Van Damme movies thinking, I'm going to do that. Right? It was all fairly simple movement and obviously choreographed. It was fun. We enjoyed it. Right? You could say the same thing about most of what's in Karate Kid and most of the other movies. It was either really fantasy driven or

obviously choreographed but Seagal?

Jeremy (21:05.23)

that looks like that would work. I think that's kind of, I didn't do Aikido, but we did enough Jiu -Jitsu that it's like, that kind of looks like what we were doing in class last week. For me, I found watching Seagal movies interesting because I, you know, we did the Aikido stuff, you know, and Japanese Jiu -Jitsu, stand -up Jiu -Jitsu stuff, but.

Steven Seagal was a martial artist, but he didn't punch and kick. And that was very bizarre to me. And because of that, I enjoyed watching it because I was like, wow, this is a different thing that I'm not used to. And I really enjoyed that because of it.

I haven't seen enough Seagull movies to even remember anything besides a standing joke between me and my friends as young adults of going up behind someone and just snapping their neck and going, Steven Seagull. And walking away. So I really can't come beyond that. We might have turned a few. I don't think I would have ever stopped making that joke. That's hysterical. We might have made a few pre -arranged bunk eyes into just Steven Seagulling someone. But that's all I can really add to that.

And then I think the other one that almost fits in that category is Kempo and the Perfect Weapon with Jeff Beekman. For sure. Because anybody who was unfamiliar with Kempo and watched that movie went, there's something here. Did you ever see the Perfect Weapon with Jeff Beekman? No.

I would say, because it's 89, right? 89, 91? That sounds right. Yep. Okay. I would say of that crop of 80s movies, probably the best quality martial arts on film. There might be something I haven't seen. Yep. Of the movies that I've seen. I think that's it. I wonder what those of you out there think. Let us know. But if you gotta watch one, that's the one. Okay. I would agree. I would watch a perfect, I would watch.

Jeremy (23:14.382)

interested.

I don't, I don't, I don't. Here's the challenge. One of the things that we, that I think is really important, and you're teeing this up well, so thank you, is that to go back and watch those movies now, it's really tough because we're decades later, what we expect in movies has changed. Yeah, that's true. And my best example for this is actually not a martial arts movie, though it's come up on the show quite a few times in the early days, it's The Princess Bride.

I was in my mid -20s when I watched The Princess Bride for the first time. And I'd heard people talk about it, rave about it for years. And then I watched it and went, this is terrible. What's the big deal? Because I watched it as a 25 -year -old. And then probably 10 years later, I watched it again and I said, you know what?

I need to try to watch this as if I'm 11. And it was so much more enjoyable. That makes sense. And I think you've got to do the same thing with 80s martial arts, films, cartoons, TV shows, et cetera. You have to try to put yourself into that time. Because.

if assuming consider those things are art needs to be considered in the time it was created. Most art is not timeless. You look at a little Bruce Lee movie and it's a slower pace. First of all, Princess Bride. We saw the anniversary edition in theater. So.

Jeremy (24:44.494)

But yeah, I mean, you look at Bruce Lee, some of his first movies, great movies, you look at it compared to the pace of a movie now, and you gotta really like just settle down and like let it breathe. You almost want to put it on like one and a quarter speed during the fight scenes. Well, allegedly the film was, they had to slow down the film because they were moving so fast to begin with. Yeah, and I would agree completely. And I don't even think it's just the fight scenes. I think it's the pace of the movie itself. It was very different back then, for sure.

There were fewer things vying for your attention. Now, so many things are competing for our attention that things have been sped up because we're used to that immediate release of dopamine, serotonin, whatever, whatever. One of the two, both of them, I don't know. I forget which is released at what points. And we're addicted to it. Phones, TV, everything is faster. Music is faster. Everything is faster.

trying to keep us riled up. Another reason we need the martial arts. Great. Slow ourselves down. Great segue. That's good. Thank you. And that's all a big part of why so many of us deal with anxiety. Because our brains have been hijacked. It's finding balance. So if we all gave up all pop culture made after like 1995, maybe 98, we could get rid of most anxiety in the world.

If we also get rid of phones. Yeah. Get rid of phones.

and modern entertainment and right now we're about going to finish up this episode and then go to the manhole cover. I'm going to go to the manhole cover. I want to explain a little bit more for people that may have jumped in and heard this for the first time. So mentioned we're in Dover. Yeah, sure. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles were created here in Dover, as we already mentioned, and a group of people put a GoFundMe out a couple of years ago. Is that right? Two years ago? I think it's been ongoing for all, but they finally got it moving. A couple of years ago.

Jeremy (26:42.672)

years ago to commission the town of Dover to install a manhole cover in the town that is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle themed, which is pretty cool. Original artwork from the creator. Yeah, yeah. If you were never a fan of the show, you might not get the connection. The turtles lived in the sewers under New York City. Yeah, hence manhole cover. So we're talking about getting rid of phones and stuff. So why don't we pack up and go to the manhole cover and record stuff on our phones. Yes, use our phone to take a picture.

Maybe record some audio with the phone. At half speed. At half speed. In 4K. Awesome. In 240 lines of resolution. Maybe let's not go back to 1995. Okay, fair enough. That's why we all had to have small TVs, because remember that? Watching something on a big screen, you're like, this is going to be great. You're like, no, this is terrible. It's only great if you sit over there. I can put my finger between the lines. Yeah.

Thanks for letting us hang out with you. My pleasure. Crash your space. Coming on camera.

I talk to you every day. Thanks for driving down. Yeah, absolutely. To you out there, thank you. Genuinely, thank you. Thanks for spending some time with us. Remember, if you want to support Whistlekick, go to Whistlekick .com. Grab something using the code podcast one five. Join the Patreon. If you've got a school, Whistlekick Alliance. If you've got ideas for guests or topics, let us know. Andrew at Whistlekick .com, Jeremy at Whistlekick .com. What's your website? It's LeithKarate .com. LeithKarate .com.

in what episode? gosh, we've had Monday's episode is episode 924 as I'm recording this. I don't remember everyone's episode number. Come on. You're usually better than I am. I got nothing. I'm guessing in the 900 teens. I'm guessing was your episode. Do you remember? You've only got one to remember. See, you're up. I remember my own phone number. So that's fair. That's fair. So let's pack up and go check out a manhole cover.

Jeremy (28:49.102)

Thanks everybody. Goodbye.