Episode 913 - 2 Schools of Thought: To Watch or Not?
In this episode, Andrew is joined by friends Victor Guarino, Stephen Watson and Nick Taber as they discuss the next installment of 2 Schools of Thought. Should Parents be allowed to watch their childrens classes or not?
2 Schools of Thought: To Watch or Not? - Episode 913
SUMMARY
The conversation explores the topic of whether parents should be allowed to watch their children's martial arts classes. The guests discuss the benefits of having parents present, such as building a sense of community, providing support for the child's practice at home, and allowing parents to see the broader benefits of martial arts beyond self-defense. They also mention the importance of setting boundaries for parental involvement. On the other hand, not having parents in the room can help children focus and establish a clear authority figure. The conversation highlights the value of involving parents in a balanced and controlled manner. The conversation explores the benefits and challenges of having parents present during martial arts classes. The hosts discuss how the presence of parents can affect the behavior and focus of the students, as well as the dynamics between parents and instructors. They also explore the importance of building trust and a strong connection between instructors and students. The conversation delves into the role of parents in shaping their children's behavior and the need for children to learn how to discern different perspectives. The hosts discuss various approaches to finding a middle ground between having parents present and creating a focused learning environment.
TAKEAWAYS
* Having parents present in martial arts classes can build a sense of community and provide support for the child's practice at home.
* Setting boundaries for parental involvement is important to maintain a balanced learning environment.
* Not having parents in the room can help children focus and establish a clear authority figure.
* Involving parents in a controlled manner can help them understand the broader benefits of martial arts beyond self-defense. The presence of parents during martial arts classes can affect the behavior and focus of the students.
* Building trust and a strong connection between instructors and students is crucial for effective teaching.
* Parents play a significant role in shaping their children's behavior, but it's important for children to learn how to discern different perspectives.
* Finding a middle ground between having parents present and creating a focused learning environment requires individualized approaches and open communication.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and Discussion of Two Schools of Thought
03:46 Benefits of Having Parents Present in Martial Arts Classes
09:20 Setting Boundaries for Parental Involvement
22:27 Involving Parents in a Controlled Manner
31:00 The Impact of Parental Presence
32:25 Building Trust and Connection
33:32 Shaping Behavior
34:56 Teaching Discernment
36:52 Finding a Middle Ground
After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it.
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Show Transcript
Andrew Adams (04:53.734)
Welcome, you are listening or perhaps watching the next episode of Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio. And today I'm joined with some guests and if you are only listening, you don't know who they are yet. If you're watching, you can see them, but I haven't introduced them yet. So you don't know, could be anybody. You'll just have to wait and find out. Today we are going to be discussing an episode of Two Schools of Thought.
and Jeremy and I discussed, you know what, maybe it'd be kind of fun and cool to have some outside people's opinions on some of these episodes rather than just he and I. So I'm joined by a few people, which I'll introduce in just a second. But until then, don't forget, Whistlekick Martial Arts Radio is your place to go to find everything about this episode. In fact, if you went there, you would probably see, because there's probably a picture, who the three guests are. But you're not sure.
Stephen Watson (05:23.193)
Okay.
Andrew Adams (05:46.534)
So go to Whistlekick martial arts radio. That's where we have show notes on the episode, extra photos of things, transcripts of this episode. And largely you can go to whistlekick .com for all of the things that we do to connect, educate and entertain traditional martial artists of the world. Man, it is early this morning and I can't talk. Blah, blah, blah. Connect, educate and entertain traditional martial artists of the world.
And you can find things there, everything from events that we run and apparel that you can purchase, whether it's sweatshirts like this really cool dragon hoodie or hats or shirts, sweatpants, all kinds of things. And you can use the code podcast one five to save yourself 15 % off everything in the, not everything, most everything. You can't save money on events.
And you can also find information on our school owners program, Whistlekick Alliance. So I encourage people to check that out. So let's jump right into this. We've got three guests that I'm looking at here in no particular order. I'm just actually, you know what, that's wrong. I'm going to go in the order that I see you on my screen. Well, now I don't want to go to Steven Watson, who is our first guest. Steven, how are you this morning?
Stephen Watson (06:52.997)
Yeah, which is the best first, yeah.
Vic (07:02.939)
Mm.
Stephen Watson (07:09.285)
I already won the episode, I'm great.
Andrew Adams (07:12.102)
Great to see you. Nice to have you here with us today. Going in my order, no particular order of importantness. We're also joined by Nick Tabor. How are you, Nick?
Nick (07:14.114)
Pleasure to be here happily, just very happy to see all your faces. And thank you for inviting me on this episode.
Stephen Watson (07:14.597)
Thank you. Thank you.
Stephen Watson (07:22.757)
but still second best.
Vic (07:27.003)
I'm sorry.
Andrew Adams (07:35.078)
Absolutely great to have you and familiar face to the show Victor Garino Victor. How are you?
Stephen Watson (07:42.468)
Bronze medalist.
Vic (07:42.939)
I guess you forgot that I'm the lowly, lowly, lowly Victor Garino now, since I'm the last one that was mentioned, but I am doing great.
Stephen Watson (07:53.891)
Ha ha ha!
Andrew Adams (07:55.43)
I feel like I want to take a picture. There we go. Everybody can see I took the picture. So listeners of the show, I want to let you know I started up a group chat yesterday with these three fine gentlemen to just discuss what time we're going to get together, the topic, stuff like that. And...
Stephen Watson (07:59.203)
first place in humility.
Vic (08:02.171)
Well, I mean, when you're this low, the rain hits you last, so...
Stephen Watson (08:04.708)
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Nick (08:15.778)
You
Andrew Adams (08:23.622)
my phone immediately blew up with things that made me keep laughing because everybody's so fun. And I actually sent a message to Jeremy and said, God help me. I may have made a very grave mistake by inviting these three people onto a show. And he's like, and he said, Jeremy said, good luck my friend. So.
Nick (08:35.554)
I'm just gonna leave.
Stephen Watson (08:41.507)
You're quoting my teacher, you know?
Andrew Adams (08:49.734)
So I do want to jump into this topic though. We're going to be discussing two schools of thought, right? For the listeners that maybe haven't heard our other episodes, this concept is here's a way that schools can do things. And there's kind of two ways to do it. And one way is definitely not right and one way is not wrong, but there are pros and cons to both. And so we're here to discuss that topic and that way of doing things. And...
Stephen Watson (09:17.506)
you
Andrew Adams (09:20.07)
that topic being during class, do you allow your parents to sit and watch your students progress through their class or do you ask them to not be there? Again, one way is not right or wrong. There's just a couple of different ways to think about this. And I'm actually going to throw it to Nick first because I know that you have recently mentioned that you are going to be starting up your school again. And I'm curious, have you given any thought to this topic?
Stephen Watson (09:24.77)
you
Stephen Watson (09:30.818)
you
Nick (09:33.41)
Yes.
Nick (09:37.762)
Yeah, I actually have. And over the years, I've always encouraged parents to be watching because right from the word go, I always say we're a team on this. And no matter what happens, and I've had several parents that have brought their kids in saying, fix my child, quote unquote. But others saying, no, come in and see this because what we do in the dojo has to extend at home.
Stephen Watson (09:43.393)
Hmm.
Stephen Watson (10:01.153)
Mmm.
Nick (10:06.498)
Well, if I say something, if I do something and say, okay, you're like, you know, carry this forward and I expect a student to practice Akata, you know, you're going to be my eyes and ears that say, I trust the student will do it, but I also want the parents to see, yeah, Sensei told you to do this. Why aren't you getting it done? And I think it's a very useful tool.
Stephen Watson (10:18.304)
Mmm.
Stephen Watson (10:37.024)
you
Andrew Adams (10:38.406)
Yeah, yeah, I get that. I get that. Stephen, have you had experience with this yourself?
Stephen Watson (10:40.608)
Yeah, I I've Avoided ulcers for my entire life and in a related news. I don't teach children But I have taught children for decades I just don't currently And I can see the value on both sides, you know, I think without the parents there you can be assured that the kids are focused
Nick (10:59.522)
R .I .P.
Stephen Watson (11:09.439)
and the parents are not interfering. I can get that. I had an opportunity to train at another school last week and they have a big children's program. And I noticed that they had a little sign at the entry to the mat that was directed to the parents. Like, your job is not to speak to your children or coach your children or correct your children. It's to be here for them, right? You know, before and after class. And I thought, wow.
that probably came about because it was a problem somebody thought needed correcting and I had never done that but I thought that was important. I had a couple of rules when I was teaching children. One is that there was always at least one parent there. Right and mostly for legal reasons. I don't want to be anywhere where it's it's not my kids. Not that anybody had any concerns or anything but
I just thought like if everybody comes and drops their kid off, there's no class. Somebody has to stay and they usually coordinated it and it was fine. Um, and two, when the parents were there, I would encourage them to pay attention, but a lot of times they have their own work to do or they're on their phones or reading or what have you. And I thought that was fine. So long as they're not interacting and I try and get the kids to learn to come to me first, not just because their parents there like.
I am the authority right now. And often I would use it because when the kid would kind of repeatedly make the same errors, I'd have them walk up to the parents and apologize, right? Which is like a giant ocean to cross just the mat over to their parent. And I'd say, you know, have to get their parents' attention and speak to them and say, I know that you spent money on this and I'm not using your money well because I'm goofing off or whatever.
Andrew Adams (12:47.942)
Mmm.
Stephen Watson (13:02.845)
And you know, in their own words, but I'd have to say like, and really just to kind of register for them that, you know, it's free to the kid, but it isn't free to the family. And it's an investment that they're kind of failing at. And I wouldn't be all that harsh, but I, you know, at some point it's say, I'm glad your parents here, they're paying for something that you're not getting. And I can't do, I can't make you get it, but I can teach you about responsibility of apology.
And that really shifted for them. Yeah, so I tried to make the best use of having the parents there because they were there. You know, that's how I saw it.
Andrew Adams (13:33.254)
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Vic (13:40.859)
Mm -hmm.
Andrew Adams (13:43.014)
Yeah. And Victor, I know that your school started within the last year. I know that you have a children's program. What are your thoughts, your first initial thoughts going into this topic?
Vic (13:57.531)
I mean, yeah, there's definitely strong reasons before, like for and against having the parents present there. And we definitely do. It was a big part of when we were doing the construction on our space, which I did most of the interior kind of stuff myself. Karen wanted...
a place for parents to sit because it was important to her. I had taught in a school where I was running a program out of a fitness club and we were in the dance room and the parents would come in, drop their kids off and then go work out. And I would always close the door. The room, the room was cameraed. So everything was fine and everything into the rest. But I was always closed the door just to keep.
Stephen Watson (14:38.268)
Okay.
Vic (14:56.603)
other like gym rats from coming in and trying to use the room while I was teaching, I still had to deal with that. So the shut door always, you know, was a good deterrent for that. But one of the things that I noticed was out of all of my parents, I really only had one dad who was super involved in his kids training. And that was because this guy was a stand up dude. Like he had his son in martial arts for all of the right.
Stephen Watson (15:04.025)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (15:17.402)
you
Stephen Watson (15:22.49)
Mm -hmm.
Vic (15:25.723)
reasons, he was very much involved in the best possible way a father could be in his son's life. And it became something that was important to me as well. I have also seen it in our own, even in our own school just in the past year.
Vic (15:46.523)
being an obstacle that we've had to come, uh, come across and deal with. But overall, I think like I'm of the personal opinion that it's, it's worth it because it builds community. And I, it was funny. I, I made a page on our website with just all of the different programs and I put the tag, you know, the title at the top is find where you belong. Like thinking.
Stephen Watson (15:49.08)
hehe
Andrew Adams (16:03.014)
Mm -hmm.
Nick (16:09.73)
It's really fun, huh?
Vic (16:15.995)
Literally like find the program that is right for you. But then there was one day during, during our youth class that Karen was running them through some drills and I looked over at, and every single one of our seats were filled with parents. And like, not just like one parent, but like both parents and they were not on their phones. They were engaged either with each other, talking about what their kids were doing, watching their kids laughing. And I was like,
Stephen Watson (16:20.279)
It's a great title.
Stephen Watson (16:39.063)
Mmm.
Vic (16:45.531)
Oh dang, these parents belong here and are part of it. And like my parents all through my training, they, my mom started training after I moved out of New Jersey and is now training with my first instructor in her sixties. But like they were dojo parents, but they were still very much involved with everything that we did at the dojo. And I think that that is an important thing. And I find that it is worth the headache that I have to deal with.
Nick (16:51.618)
Yeah. Yeah.
Stephen Watson (17:15.446)
Mm -hmm.
Vic (17:15.643)
with the occasional helicopter mom or dad who steps out onto my mat to move something that they don't want their kid to accidentally bump into.
Stephen Watson (17:23.702)
Right.
Andrew Adams (17:23.942)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to say, so, you know, we let's tackle both of these sides here. Let's talk about having parents involved and talk. We can each kind of, we'll kind of go around and talk about some of the benefits of having the parents involved. And one that I was going to say is we have had students in our school whose parents would sit and watch and enjoy it to the point that they joined the program. And.
Nick (17:39.49)
Mm -hmm.
Andrew Adams (17:52.87)
if they weren't there, if they were not allowed to be there, I'm not sure that they would have joined our school as students themselves. So I mean, I think there is a benefit to having parents there because as some of you have mentioned that it gets them involved. Let's talk about some of the other benefits of having parents involved. Nick, what's another one you can think of?
Stephen Watson (17:52.95)
Mm -mm.
Stephen Watson (17:59.701)
Yeah.
Nick (18:01.474)
The real big benefit itself would be really having you have your own internal marketing there. So, I mean, parents would talk to each other and if, you know, kids who have problems or something and say, you know, again, my kid, my kid joined here, you might want to, you know, you might want to join your child into this. This is really good. But also it's a, like, you know, as Victor said, you know, it does build the sense of community very quickly.
Um, and some of my friends who I still have to this day, even since I was a kid and began my training were a result of the parents getting very close to my parents, you know, and doing what they do. And, you know, some of it was, uh, peppered in as well was, um, you know, legal reasons, of course, you know, something does happen. Um, and, um, also it carries on, you know, the lessons itself, you know,
Stephen Watson (18:33.557)
Mm -hmm.
Nick (18:56.45)
and learning other things, you know, learning other things, you know, what a, you know, you might learn a sidekick, but there's the reason behind the sidekick or there's a lesson behind that that they can carry on and help you out as well. So.
Nick (19:15.618)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew Adams (19:23.398)
Yeah. And, and, and Steven, you, you know, you brought up some things as well that, that, that legal, not essentially legality reason, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What, what else are we missing into? What are some other benefits that we get from having those parents there?
Stephen Watson (19:27.188)
It's a legal consideration, yeah.
Stephen Watson (19:39.827)
Well, for one, I can't fit in my marketing all the benefits of martial arts. You have to pick two or three things to teach self -confidence, self -defense, whatever it is. But as martial artists, career martial artists, I could seven trillion, you know. But the parents sitting there for a few classes, they start to see, oh my God, you're teaching so much more than how to block a punch.
Vic (19:48.251)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (20:08.466)
Like so much more and so, you know, they tend to become proponents of the martial arts and perhaps of our own school I think it's important if you do have parents to have a sense of a threshold of involvement that you want to work towards and as Victor was suggesting sometimes they go a little bit beyond it and you start to have to accommodate that or address it or Shift the rule set or put up a sign or what have you?
And some people sometimes are under involved. They all just drop them off. They all just spend time on their phones. So I think having a set sense of where that threshold is. And if this the parent starts to try and push beyond that threshold, say, wow, you know, you really are interested in this. And you know what the way that you can be involved, there's a program for that. It's called the adult class. Like, like, if you're that into it, there's a way to be that into it. Now.
Andrew Adams (20:59.526)
Hahaha
Yeah, yeah, no, that's true.
Stephen Watson (21:04.529)
I've never run a parent -child class, which is that somewhere in the middle of involvement, right? And I think that's a great way to do it too. Where my sort of threshold would be, I don't want the parents involved during the class at all, obviously, unless there's an injury or something. But even to the point of the kid starts crying and they're upset about something, try working it through with me and your partner first, even though your mom's right there and I know that's easy. Let's try and do this.
Andrew Adams (21:29.03)
Gotcha.
Stephen Watson (21:33.872)
And that doesn't mean I succeed. Sometimes, you know, the parents are going to come out with a bandaid and that, you know, that's how it goes. But the threshold for me would be when I talk about homework, I want to pair, I would address the parents as though they're my students. Put your phone down, sit up, pay attention. I'm assigning homework. Right. And two, if we're doing anything with weapons, now we want the parents to pay attention. And I would tell the kids,
Andrew Adams (21:34.15)
Mm -hmm.
Andrew Adams (21:48.262)
Gotcha. Yep. Yep.
Vic (21:52.667)
Mm.
Stephen Watson (22:00.304)
You are not you must practice and you may not practice unless a parent is paying attention not in the room and not your uncle Charlie who sometimes visits not an adult, but your parents who you know, or you know, guardian whoever is here that learns this stuff. And I don't want them kind of, you know, in the room on their laptop while you practice, I want them only, you know, teaching them about the value of focus. Whether they do that.
Andrew Adams (22:05.734)
Mm -hmm.
Andrew Adams (22:15.814)
Yep. Yeah.
Andrew Adams (22:24.742)
Paying attention, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Stephen Watson (22:27.472)
as well as I'd like, I don't know, but that would be sort of my threshold of engagement that I wanted for them.
Andrew Adams (22:31.974)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Nice. All right, that makes sense. Victor, what are your thoughts? Anything else we're missing in terms of benefits of having the parents in the room?
Vic (22:42.619)
Yeah, I mean, we've kind of talked around it and alluded to it in a lot of things, but I made a realization when in my training very early on when I was 16, my first instructor helped me make this realization, especially because I was two years. I had been homeschooled.
And so the only other like real interaction weekly that I had with kids my own age was in martial arts. And then I went to high school and I'm like, man, none of my friends understand me. Like, they think I'm dark. They think I'm violent. Or like, they're just weak. Like I remember one time like this kid, I was just completely zoned out. Beginning of the day, this kid came up to me and was like, hey Vic, and went to, in my in homeroom went to punch me in the shoulder.
Stephen Watson (23:12.079)
Mm.
Andrew Adams (23:17.414)
Mm.
Vic (23:34.363)
I'm not paying attention, you guys probably can all guess exactly what happened. Bang! And I just knocked it out of the way. Bruised their arm. And I was like, wow, people are like soft, you know, because at that point I had been training since I was 12. I didn't, with all other people who had been training since they were 12, I had a nine -year -old girl who used to hurt me all the time because she had been training longer than me, so I was like.
Stephen Watson (23:45.326)
you
Nick (23:54.69)
YouTube will be there.
Stephen Watson (23:58.893)
You can see that in the show notes. Victor is beat up by a nine -year -old girl and civilians are soft. I think those are the...
Vic (24:03.099)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, those are the two takeaways. But one of the things that my instructor explained to me and the older that I get, the more I interact, the more I realize this, is that martial arts, the things that we do is so...
I guess niche is the word that we are a culture that exists within a subculture of society. And there's a lot of people who never have trained, but view it from the outside and don't understand. But you wouldn't go to New York City and go to little Italy as not an Italian person, like not an Italian immigrant, like my family are, that's why I'm using this as an example. And just,
Stephen Watson (24:32.685)
Mmm.
Andrew Adams (24:42.918)
Mm.
Stephen Watson (24:42.988)
you
Stephen Watson (24:52.748)
Mm -hmm.
Nick (24:54.338)
Right.
Vic (24:55.387)
immediately walk into Little Italy and judge everything that they do because you have no idea why they're doing what they're doing, what is and isn't acceptable. The people who want to learn about a culture, the best thing to do is to go and insert yourself into it in order to gain a deeper understanding of it. Martial arts isn't like soccer or basketball. We don't have easy access to
Stephen Watson (25:00.075)
Mm -hmm.
Vic (25:25.435)
for people to insert themselves into that culture. We have easier access now in the age of the internet, but even so, that has a lot of misinformation in it as well. The best way to do it is to have the parents say, hey, your kids are doing this thing. You should at least, like Steven was saying, not just sit on your phone. I've got parents who sit on your phone, but there are moments and whole classes in which they will put their phone down.
and engage because they realize their kid is into this. And if they don't pay attention, when their kid goes home and asks for help or asks to explain something to them, they're going to have no idea and not even know where to start in how to help their kids. So the best thing that I tell our parents, and it's funny because we just gave one free month to the moms and dads of all of our toddlers in our toddler and me program.
Andrew Adams (26:08.294)
Mm.
Stephen Watson (26:19.849)
Mm.
Vic (26:20.379)
Because I was like, hey, martial arts is a family thing and you should all do it. Here's a schedule to all of our adult stuff. And I think that you need to be around adults too and not just only speaking toddler world language. So come do adult stuff with us too. Here's a month. But I did that because I said, hey, eventually some of you have said you want your kid to be a part of our youth program when they get older. Wouldn't it be great if you
Stephen Watson (26:40.905)
Right.
Vic (26:47.995)
even if you don't stick with us, but if you even had a month to two months of basics that when they start, you're a little bit ahead of them and can help them at the beginning and that's going to push them even further beyond their already head start that some of our toddlers are getting that I had when I started at 12. These kids understand their body and balance better than I did at 13 and therefore, so I think that's a really good benefit too.
Andrew Adams (26:51.622)
Yeah, I had to start.
Stephen Watson (26:51.625)
some basics.
Andrew Adams (27:06.598)
Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew Adams (27:13.798)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (27:15.977)
I've coached some of my students who run their own schools to occasionally offer a clinic, let's call it, 30 minutes or something, free probably, where the adult is not in a toddler and me class, and they're not in an adult program, but they have some engagement with the kid. And the idea is how can you support your kids practice at home?
So it's just simple safety stuff like how to hold a bag or here's how to read the curriculum sheet or here's how we set our reign so we're not giving each other black eyes or just very, very simple stuff. So you're kind of supporting the parents in a very sort of skeletal way to support the kids practice so that now I'm reinforcing the value of practicing at home and homework and I'm getting just a little bit, it's engagement without commitment from the parents.
Andrew Adams (27:45.286)
Yeah.
Andrew Adams (28:03.046)
Hmm.
Andrew Adams (28:08.518)
Thank you.
Vic (28:09.787)
Hmm.
Stephen Watson (28:14.631)
and that improves the safety and I'm hoping that that gets them doing it together a bit, which is that whole bonding thing that we really, really all want in the martial arts.
Andrew Adams (28:24.966)
Yeah, you know, and before we move on to talking about the benefits of not having parents in there, the last thing that I'll say about having the parents in the class is I actually use them when they're in the class. Like they're sitting off at the side, but there are times where I have said, hey, you know, parent A, can you come out and help me with this? Maybe it is holding a bag because it's very important that you learn how to hold the bag correctly, but
a 10 year old kicking a bag, it doesn't matter how the adult holds it, they're gonna be safe for the most part, right? So they don't have to learn the real intricate details. So like just holding a bag or at the end of class, sometimes we'll do jump rope to teach the kids body and jumping and whatever. And I'll grab a parent to help me do the jump rope. Or we're talking about middle blocks in class. So for those of you not watching, you won't see this, but like, but.
Stephen Watson (28:55.974)
you
Stephen Watson (29:00.646)
Right, right.
Andrew Adams (29:22.054)
I talk about having this nice, good, strong here. And if it's here, if it's really, really close to you, it's very weak. And I would pull the largest dad watching the class out onto the floor and have them put their arm really close to them and both of them, and I could push them over, but then I just have them move their arms here and I can't push them over or vice versa. So like I use them in class and I think there is a benefit to that. But let's now look at the other side. What are the benefits?
Stephen Watson (29:36.486)
Right.
Stephen Watson (29:43.941)
Right.
Andrew Adams (29:51.142)
of not having the parents in the room. Steven, we'll start with you.
Stephen Watson (29:56.325)
I think the primary, and I haven't done it that way. So it's me interacting with other martial artists and visiting other schools and surmising is that the kids are more focused and they come to recognize more of a sole authority figure rather than a, you know, a bureaucracy of both parents are here. There's other adults, there's a teacher. And then it's a little bit more clear. Here's who I'm guided by. Here's who I bring my problems to.
Andrew Adams (30:00.038)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (30:25.636)
Here's who I'm listening to. Here's who I'm focused on. And the incidence of meddling is less.
Nick (30:30.562)
I think the benefit would really be if they're not there that a kid who wants to talk about something or may have something that they want to bring up or just can't talk about, you know, is already there. So like I had one and I'm going to minimize details as much as possible. I had a student who he fell in, you know, and his leg was pretty banged up.
Vic (30:37.179)
Yeah.
Andrew Adams (30:37.382)
Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Nick, what about what about yourself? Anything you can think of?
Stephen Watson (30:51.78)
Oh.
Wow, that's good.
Vic (30:59.323)
Mm -hmm.
Nick (30:59.714)
And you know, in school and he's, you know, coming to tell him, you know, and his mom dropped him off and, you know, it's just like, yeah, I got to take off and it's just going to be you guys tonight. I'm like, okay, fine, no problem. And, you know, he's telling me about how he fell in front of his classmates. You know, I just tripped and fell and then, you know, how he handled that because of bully push. I'm like, okay, now we can, you know, now I can dissect that because.
You know, if his mom or dad were there, he probably didn't want to be so open. You know, he probably, you know, it builds like, it builds the trust with me, just building off of what Stephen was saying. And I mean, it builds up the trust to say, look, you can talk to me about something if you need to. And that's an advancement. I mean, as we move, as you move on and as you go higher in the belts and as you go higher on, you build a.
Stephen Watson (31:35.427)
Grrrr
Vic (31:35.899)
Mm -hmm.
Vic (31:45.339)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (31:45.763)
Yeah, that's great.
Nick (31:55.874)
I mean, I think everybody could say this. You build a very tight connection with your instructor, you know, regardless of whether you can go for other things because there are things you can teach later on. And if you don't have those seeds planted early on, I mean, that relationship never really grows. Yeah.
Stephen Watson (31:58.849)
Mmm.
Vic (31:59.707)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (32:12.962)
Mm -hmm.
Vic (32:20.155)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (32:25.602)
Mmm.
Vic (32:25.946)
Mm -hmm. Mm.
Andrew Adams (32:28.742)
Gotcha. Victor, any other benefits to not having them in the room?
Vic (32:33.339)
Yeah, to build off of Nick, who was building off of what Steve said. I used to run youth programs for nonprofit organizations like churches and other kind of religious stuff in, you know, we would run after school programs and stuff like that. And kids, kids are observing all of the time and taking things in all of the time. And unfortunately, sometimes it's unfortunately.
Stephen Watson (32:44.832)
Mm -hmm.
Vic (33:01.179)
They are always drawing conclusions. The unfortunate thing is they're not always talking to the fully developed, for lack of a better word, if you're just listening to this, I was making air quotes when I refer to adults as fully developed, scientifically speaking, fully developed brains. They're not always talking about those conclusions and getting other perspectives because they don't understand yet that they need to. And so to put, so sometimes,
Stephen Watson (33:18.848)
Mmm.
Vic (33:30.779)
And I have had experiences with this with a parent has been in the room and I have just happened to say something that a parent has said to that kid, maybe that day or earlier. But because the parent is present in the room, the kid will like look back at mom and dad and think that I'm taking their side. When really their parent just said something that was true, universally speaking.
Nick (33:33.474)
Yeah.
Andrew Adams (33:46.022)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (33:54.687)
Ugh.
Mmm.
Vic (33:59.579)
And I think it's so important for young people to understand and learn how to discern for themselves. Other, like there are other adults outside of their parents and outside of their family that like Nick was saying, I can go to for advice. I don't feel comfortable going to mom and dad for this because especially when they hit that teenage age, you know, it's that awkward like, like.
Stephen Watson (34:00.127)
Hmm.
Stephen Watson (34:19.038)
Mm -hmm.
Vic (34:25.499)
I've seen it and I've seen it in a lot of girls. Like I look up to and respect mom because from the time that I was born, she was the epitome of a woman and what a woman should be. And that's icon. And I want to be that. And now I'm a teenager and I don't want to be like mom, but I want to be like mom. So there's that, there's that frustration there. And whereas now they come to like what I hope is if they're having a really bad time and they come at, you know,
Andrew Adams (34:35.878)
Okay.
Stephen Watson (34:40.606)
Mm -hmm.
Vic (34:55.611)
with mom or they just argued with mom, now they come to class, our teenage class, and they have Sensei Karen, another adult female powerful strong woman in their life, who's emulating a lot of the similar things of their mom. Well, now this is where you get to see a kid develop who they wanna be. You know, we're all picking and choosing the aspects of the generation above us that we like.
Nick (35:05.186)
Yeah. Right.
Stephen Watson (35:05.982)
Uh huh.
Stephen Watson (35:17.47)
Uh huh.
Vic (35:22.651)
that we want to emulate and maybe the parts of the people that we don't. And so now you have a child thinking, maybe, you know, there are things about my mom or my parents that I like and I want to be like, but it's also okay to see things in my parents who are just human, right? Who, that I maybe don't want to be like and emulate and it can be both. And kind of just to caveat on that to touch on a touchy subject, but to not go into it.
Stephen Watson (35:33.596)
Mm -hmm.
Andrew Adams (35:40.55)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (35:42.365)
Alright.
Stephen Watson (35:51.485)
Mm -hmm.
Vic (35:52.379)
Like think about the process that it takes to become a licensed driver in the United States of America. There's tests, there's classes, there's training. Now think about what you have to do to physically become a parent. Technically, it's infinitely easier. I have had students whose parents were only that in name, who came to my programs because they felt safe, who...
Nick (35:55.394)
Yeah. Yeah.
Nick (36:08.546)
Yep. Yep.
Stephen Watson (36:11.58)
Yes.
Stephen Watson (36:16.252)
For sure. For sure.
Stephen Watson (36:21.436)
Mm -hmm.
Vic (36:21.755)
who had a very toxic view of masculinity from their fathers. And then when they came to me, see a version of a man that looks vastly different than their dad, that's compassionate and loving, but also strong. And now they're wrestling with this. You know, someone once said to me that be kind to your parents as an adult because realize that, well, you were growing up,
Nick (36:22.434)
Mm. Right. Right.
Stephen Watson (36:26.972)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (36:33.787)
Mm -hmm.
Andrew Adams (36:34.822)
Yep, yep.
Nick (36:41.507)
Right.
Stephen Watson (36:44.699)
Hmm.
Vic (36:51.675)
your parents were also growing up. They were just kids who had kids, mine especially. You know, like my parents were very young when they had my oldest sister. And sometimes we look back and I tell my dad some of the things that he did. And he's like, I did what? Wow, sorry. I'm glad that like you didn't turn out too messed up a little bit. But like, it's good to sometimes have...
Stephen Watson (36:54.747)
Nice.
Andrew Adams (37:08.55)
Hehehehe
Stephen Watson (37:08.89)
Oh
Vic (37:18.875)
that separation so that kids can learn how to be discerning. And at the school where my wife used to teach at one of her first schools, you can not have the parents in class, you can kind of have the best of both worlds. They had their youngest kids classes where in a back room closed off from everybody with a giant monitor in the parents waiting room and a camera in that room.
Nick (37:30.882)
Wow.
Stephen Watson (37:36.858)
Mm.
Andrew Adams (37:42.758)
Yep. Yep.
Vic (37:44.763)
And those same parents had access and could access that camera from the internet. So if they just dropped their kids off, hey, you can go and watch online. We live stream the kids class only to the parents, you know, who want to come watch it. Yeah. So they can still have that one way in -air action.
Andrew Adams (37:53.766)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (37:57.626)
Right, so it's like a one -way interaction. They can hear and see, but they can't input to the class, which probably as a teacher that feels great and easy, you know?
Vic (38:09.819)
Yeah, that's one of the goals, probably not for... When we have our... At this point, it's the third iteration of our school because we're still one iteration away from being able to do this. Our final dojo location, we want to have a space that is like that. Not that we're going to separate parents from every class, but there definitely are times in which I think it is beneficial.
Andrew Adams (38:29.19)
Mm -hmm.
Nick (38:37.378)
Red.
Vic (38:38.139)
to let kids be kids and not be corrected because I don't correct kids when they do the same things that their parents will yell at them as. I'm like, they're in here to be destructive. And I have destructive times for kids.
Andrew Adams (38:41.318)
Yeah.
Nick (38:41.57)
Yeah. Right.
Stephen Watson (38:43.608)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (38:49.656)
Mm.
Andrew Adams (38:50.822)
No, no, I -
Sure, and that makes sense. And I think that leads very well, that's a great segue into how can you, is there a middle ground, right? And before we get there, I'll say for me, the biggest benefit to not having the parents in the room, because that's where we were, is a focus issue. That kids absolutely act differently when their parents are in the room. Some...
Stephen Watson (38:54.584)
Mm.
Interesting.
Stephen Watson (39:10.808)
Mm -hmm.
Andrew Adams (39:22.342)
Some of the students act out more because they're looking for validation from their parents. They want to see their parents react. Some of them are just more shy when the parents are in the room. So there's definitely some benefits for sure to not having them in the room. And then Victor, you brought up this great idea, which is kind of what's in the middle. And so let's talk about that. Are there ways to get both things, to get...
Stephen Watson (39:31.128)
Right.
Nick (39:48.322)
Yeah, I can really say to this one is just judging from my years of teaching in other schools and when I was a junior teacher, it comes to really the individual student. That and up to the up to the teacher to express that and say, look, this might be a better course of action. Why don't we try this? And like a brief story on that is not apparent, but I had I had students who would bring their significant other.
Andrew Adams (39:49.606)
the benefits of both sides, Victor, you already mentioned the basically closed circuit camera that your parents can log into. Nick, I see you got your hand up. Anything in the middle?
Stephen Watson (40:17.847)
you
Nick (40:18.05)
And you notice in immediate distraction, like one was doing it, they're doing a kata and you know, both, both sides too. Like that all of a sudden they're performing really well. They're kicking higher. They're pushing harder. It's like, okay, great. And then they turned, look at the window. Like, eh? Like, you know, they do that early. Okay. No, like let's tone this down. Maybe you can wait in the car. Maybe you can do that.
But the same with parents though, if that individual parent in that relationship or that child is not doing what's needed, then it's up to the teacher to have that individual conversation and maybe switch things accordingly. We had one where it was years ago, this was back when I first, first, first started teaching as a senpai, as a senior student. And...
Stephen Watson (41:07.702)
Mmm.
Nick (41:13.186)
There was one that came in and you know, a parent came in and had a little bit of a rival, bad neighbor, quote unquote, you know, had a bad neighbor relationship with another parent. And it was very clearly that things were escalating real quickly. I turned to Sensei and I say, Hey, I think you need to do something right there. Like it's about to cause a problem. And you know, yeah, exactly.
Stephen Watson (41:27.989)
you
Nick (41:39.362)
Yeah, exactly. And you know, then they just rip them apart and do that. Say, you guys need to go like, let's do something else and then keep that harmony in the dojo.
Andrew Adams (41:46.118)
Hmm.
Stephen Watson (41:46.965)
Hmm.
Andrew Adams (41:49.126)
So it's a case by case basis. Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew Adams (42:00.774)
Yeah. Steven, any middle ground that you see ways that you could be able to get both, get the best of both worlds.
Stephen Watson (42:08.134)
Yeah, the comedic middle ground is to have all the parents drop their kids off at your school and then go and watch another school and that school drops your kids off and their parents come and watch you. So then you get the parents there but they're not the parents, they're just parents.
Nick (42:14.051)
No!
Andrew Adams (42:21.35)
Ha ha ha ha!
Andrew Adams (42:29.094)
All right, well, that's an interesting one. If any school out there does that, please let us know because we definitely wanna talk to you.
Stephen Watson (42:34.259)
Yeah, it's a tough thing. I experimented with, you know, getting the parents up on the floor to teach, getting the parents up on the floor to be taught by the children, right? So switch the roles around, you know, in a little segment of a class and have the student...
Andrew Adams (42:51.622)
Oh, interesting. Okay.
Stephen Watson (43:01.714)
This is probably not be like the six year olds, but maybe 10 or 11 year olds, but to start to develop confidence around I'm teaching something I know you don't know, even though the usual power dynamic is you're the parent on the I'm in charge here. I'm leading you, which means I have to care for you and I have to listen to what your challenges are and I have to clearly get the lesson across and then the parent of course has to actually just beat.
Nick (43:05.058)
Right.
Andrew Adams (43:10.886)
Oh yeah.
Stephen Watson (43:29.938)
doing what they're told, not what they think and not correct the student. So that was a fun kind of a hybrid way to do it. And that would like Nick was saying, that would be a case by case when I thought this particular set of parents and kids that they would benefit otherwise, I'm just adding chaos to the classroom. So that would be, you know, one element, I certainly had parents on a few occasions, I can recall, I asked them to try and distract the kids.
Andrew Adams (43:44.262)
scenario would work.
Vic (43:46.875)
Mm -hmm.
Andrew Adams (44:00.07)
Hmm, interesting.
Stephen Watson (44:00.433)
You know as sort of a little test, you know, are the kids second -guessing when I say something do they look at the parent before they say yes that sort of a thing or a little bit more fun with the teens where I have the parents like throw things in the middle of class to see if this if the students stayed focused on the drill and that was a kind of kind of a fun one and Yeah, and I'd also often have
Andrew Adams (44:19.558)
Yeah.
Hmm, interesting, yeah.
Stephen Watson (44:27.344)
you know, the parents and the kids clean up the school at the end, you know, so like if the parents hadn't been involved, here's a chance to be involved, or everybody's going to help put the stuff away or wipe the mats down or whatever. And then then they're getting a little bit more engagement with the school, but they didn't have to, you know, be fully present mentally for the whole class, you know.
Andrew Adams (44:31.206)
Mm -hmm.
Andrew Adams (44:49.286)
Yeah, yeah. So for me, the middle ground that I have seen in schools, both that I've trained at and that I visited, is you walk into the school, there's a big waiting entry area, people leave their shoes and whatever, and you pass through a doorway into a separate area, but there is a huge glass window. So all the parents, the parents are not allowed past this space, but the parents can sit and they can still watch.
Nick (44:59.234)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (45:11.504)
Right.
Stephen Watson (45:14.895)
Right.
Andrew Adams (45:18.15)
But, and the class was, the one that I'm thinking most prominently is, you know, the students stood with their backs to that window. So they're not looking at the parents, but the parents are there. And it's kind of another kind of in the middle where the parents aren't there being a distraction to the students, but the parents are still there and can be present and we can use them for all of these things.
Stephen Watson (45:26.543)
Yes.
Stephen Watson (45:40.718)
That's a very interesting point. In my imagination, or the visualization I have in my mind is that the parents are always behind the students. The students are always facing the teacher with the parents to their back, which I think is fairly universal, but I hadn't really considered it until I thought of visualizing it the other way. And I think, boy, that would fall apart quick. Also with the glass dividing the parents, I think it should be hockey plexiglass.
Nick (45:43.65)
Good.
Andrew Adams (45:53.254)
And that's not always the case.
Vic (45:54.427)
Mm -hmm.
Andrew Adams (46:02.566)
So I think we're.
Nick (46:03.106)
You have a pet box there too?
Stephen Watson (46:08.11)
So people can really get slammed up against it. The parents have 3D glasses, you know, and then there's...
Andrew Adams (46:16.742)
So I mean, I think we're.
Stephen Watson (46:19.309)
Yeah.
Andrew Adams (46:21.574)
Is there stuff that we're missing? I mean, I think we're in a good place to start to wrap down. You know, what are any last minute thoughts or anything that we're missing? Victor.
Vic (46:30.971)
Yeah, so, I mean, just listening into all this, I might, it's interesting. I started right out of college, one of the first jobs that I ever had, and I had it for a very long time, was being a youth pastor or associate youth pastor. And this was a time in which not only did I not have children, I was also not married. So I suffer, and that did not help at all with extreme imposter syndrome.
You know, let me tell parents how they can parent better to their children when I don't have any. And I can't tell you how many times I've heard, you're not a parent, you don't know. Cool. And so sometimes I still suffer with that, with that imposter syndrome with things and to tell whether you buy into whatever your faith is, looking at an account from
the Christian Bible from a literary standpoint, there's stories in one of the books of Jesus healing three blind men and he doesn't heal them the same way. He uses three different methods. And I love that picture in everything because no one's a cookie cutter. Like Nick said, you have to do what is necessary. And sometimes in our dojos, what has helped me is,
Stephen Watson (47:42.764)
Mm -hmm.
Andrew Adams (47:51.398)
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Nick (47:54.85)
Yeah.
Vic (47:59.931)
I walk into the dojo and I put on a different mantle. I put on a different persona. This is my house. You don't act out even as a parent. There's this embarrassment. I don't act out when I'm in someone else's home. So I walk around like it is my home. I even sometimes when I'm away doing different seminars that aren't physically in my dojo, I wear a more formal uniform.
Nick (48:03.33)
right.
Stephen Watson (48:17.579)
you
Stephen Watson (48:23.179)
Yeah.
Vic (48:29.115)
to help me put on that mantle. I had one of the parents ask me the other day because I am a fifth degree in karate. And he asked me, how long did it take you to become a master? And I'm like, who's a master? What are you talking about? Oh, that's right. You know nothing. And I guess I technically am one. But like, I suffer from that. But I sometimes when I'm out, I have my instructors black belt. I'll wear that when I teach.
Andrew Adams (48:42.214)
Thank you.
Stephen Watson (48:57.354)
Mm -hmm.
Vic (48:57.467)
to kind of put on this persona like this is my house. I am the final authority in this place to kind of help me be, not to help me be the authoritative person, but to be the mediator of what needs to happen. Say, if you have two parents who have issue with each other, but their kids are both in class, walking up to them and saying, hey, listen, I don't know what's going on here. Not here. Take it outside.
Stephen Watson (49:02.634)
Interesting.
Stephen Watson (49:26.986)
Uh -huh.
Vic (49:27.899)
And I think sometimes it's important for us as instructors or people who run programs to remember that you're the guy. You're the guy on the wall for the kids. You're the guy on the wall for the other parents watching. And if you don't do anything and if you don't take up that authority, someone else is going to, and it may not be a good person.
Andrew Adams (49:28.07)
Gotcha.
Nick (49:38.274)
Red.
Stephen Watson (49:49.736)
Right, yeah.
Andrew Adams (49:50.854)
Yeah. Steven, any, you know, we're wrapping up here. Just any quick last minute thoughts here before we wrap.
Stephen Watson (49:55.976)
Just following on Victor's really helpful thoughts about the imposter syndrome thing, my response to parents who had heard the same thing, well, you don't know you're not a parent. And I said, well, that's fair, but I have a different view than you do. And that can be helpful. It's not more right than yours, but together we may approach more appropriate than either of us alone. I have perhaps more experience with
more types of kids in more situations and circumstances than you who have two kids, but you have more experience with them, you know, 24 hours a day than I do. And I'm just offering another point of view that I'd like you to consider, but also I want to try and consider yours when it's appropriate that I, I can actually take on your full point of view, not just a comment in class. Um, cause it's not that you're bringing them into my class so I can be their parents.
or correct all your parenting. It's just to give them another point of view, to shape them with another tool in another place and another manner. So yeah, that imposter syndrome is a really tough thing, I think, across humanity. And certainly we see it in this field.
Nick (51:05.762)
I totally agree with what both these gentlemen are saying. I have the imposter syndrome myself. I don't have biological children. People say I'm the fungal. You know, I'm the fungal type person, you know, but it's just I echoing on what Stephen's saying. I said, you know, let's give you another opportunity because we're both here to shape the individual. You know, you know, I will tell the parent like I'm here to be able to help your kid to be a better student, to be a better person overall. So let's work together.
Andrew Adams (51:16.454)
Awesome, Nick, last minute thoughts.
Stephen Watson (51:27.527)
Mm -hmm.
Nick (51:34.658)
You know, that, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. And that's, that, that I do really well too. Like, okay, let's go together on this. Like, okay, cool. Like, you know, where it's like, you know, I, I used to be the one that said, look, I'm the authority. I got the black belt. What are you doing? And then say, Hey, you know what?
Stephen Watson (51:46.278)
Right. I'm often doing that with teaching kids is like I'm trying to figure out how can I teach the adults without them knowing it like like my secret plan. Yeah.
Nick (52:00.226)
Here's a way we can do that. Do you have an idea how we can do this and do like a David Blaine thing? We can do it one way. Well, why don't you try another way? Are you sure you want to do that? And then they go my way too. So it is the same way to do that, but it really is. It's a community involvement to be able to help the kid out.
Andrew Adams (52:16.646)
Hmm. Yeah.
Vic (52:18.555)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (52:22.725)
Nice. Nice.
Andrew Adams (52:24.486)
Yep. Yeah.
Vic (52:30.523)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Watson (52:31.077)
Mmm.
Andrew Adams (52:31.302)
Yeah. Well, I want to thank you all for being here and chatting about this, people listening or watching. What did we miss? Are there things that we missed? Let us know. You know, we can't think of every scenario and everything on this topic, so we'd love to hear from you. You can hear more about our guest, Stephen Watson, your episode 676. Did you know that? Your interview episode?
Nick (52:50.274)
807?
Nick (52:54.498)
Okay.
Oh, really?
Stephen Watson (52:57.765)
676. Awesome.
Andrew Adams (53:00.038)
Yeah. Nick, do you remember your episode?
Oh, so close! 806.
Stephen Watson (53:06.084)
Oh, oh, 807 was much better. 807 was great.
Vic (53:10.587)
Not even close. Not, no.
Andrew Adams (53:10.598)
Victor, do you remember your interview episode? 7 -7 -2. 7 -7 -2. So if you guys want to hear more about these fine gentlemen that we have on today, check out their interview episodes to hear more about them. If they said anything that you don't like, you can send hate mail to me.
Stephen Watson (53:13.956)
Ha ha!
Vic (53:17.115)
Ooh, 772, okay.
Nick (53:28.866)
Yes. Yeah.
Vic (53:30.747)
That's me. I always say things people don't like.
Stephen Watson (53:33.572)
And now is a good time to book your flight to Victor's school for free training day.
Vic (53:40.123)
Yeah, absolutely.
Andrew Adams (53:41.158)
That's true. That's true. So, you know, people watching and listening, thank you so much for being a part of this and listening and, you know, taking time out of your day to have us in your ears. I think I can speak for all of us when I say I appreciate that. We all appreciate that you've done so. If you want to check out the show notes for this episode, whistlekickmarshallartsradio .com, you can find show notes on every episode we've ever released. Whistlekick .com is where you can go to purchase
Nick (54:07.362)
Yeah?
Andrew Adams (54:11.142)
books and sparring gear and training programs and all that jazz and What's that? Cool hoodies. Yeah, like this one actually can't purchase this one. This is a custom one. But Anyway, we've got four of us on here. I wonder if we can all do it together at the same time Probably not. Let's try it though ready until next time train hard smile and Have a great day
Stephen Watson (54:12.675)
you
Stephen Watson (54:16.45)
Cool hoodies. Cool hoodies.
Nick (54:18.562)
So.
Nick (54:22.786)
Have a good day!
Vic (54:28.667)
No, we can't. No, we can't.
Vic (54:34.939)
Train hard, smile, and have a great day. So, so painful. So painful.
Stephen Watson (54:35.106)
Great.
Stephen Watson (54:39.042)
and have a good evening.