Episode 894 - Renshi Anthony Wisler
In today's episode Jeremy sits down and talks with Renshi Anthony Wisler from Virginia, a practitioner of Seigido Ryu and Bagua (among other things).Renshi Anthony Wisler - Episode 894
SUMMARY
In this episode, Renshi Anthony shares his martial arts journey, starting from his introduction to karate and jiu-jitsu at the age of 14. He discusses the impact of personal loss and how it led him to fully commit to his training. Renshi Wisler also talks about the challenges and benefits of exploring different martial arts styles, including Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Bagua. He emphasizes the importance of continuous growth and the integration of different perspectives in martial arts training. In this conversation, Renshi Wisler discusses his experience training in different martial arts styles and the benefits of learning from different instructors. He shares advice for those considering training in multiple styles and emphasizes the importance of staying consistent in one style before branching out. He also reflects on the value of taking time off from training and how it can lead to a deeper appreciation for martial arts. He encourages those who have taken a break to return to training when they are ready and not to be too hard on themselves. Finally, Anthony highlights the sense of community and deep bonds that can be formed through martial arts training.
TAKEAWAYS
Commitment and dedication are key to progress in martial arts.
Experiencing different martial arts styles can provide new perspectives and enhance growth.
The mindset and approach to training can have a significant impact on progress.
Incorporating previous training into new styles can lead to a more well-rounded martial artist. Training with different instructors can provide a deeper understanding of martial arts and expose practitioners to different aspects of the same style.
It is beneficial to stay consistent in one style before cross-training in other styles.
Taking time off from training can lead to a greater appreciation for martial arts and a renewed passion upon returning.
It is important to be honest with oneself about the desire to return to training and to make an effort to train when possible.
Martial arts training fosters a sense of community and can lead to deep and meaningful relationships.
CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction and Background
01:30 Martial Arts Beginning
03:09 Expectations vs Reality
05:38 Falling in Love with Martial Arts
08:06 The Impact of Personal Loss
09:31 Commitment to Training
11:46 Parental Support
12:41 Training Interruptions
15:12 Moving and Training in a New Location
16:47 Exploring Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
19:03 Transitioning to a New Career
22:53 Training in Bagua
28:26 Incorporating Different Martial Arts
36:14 Bringing Previous Training to Bagua
41:33 The Importance of Growth and Perspective
43:32 Training with Different Instructors
45:18 Advice for Training in Different Styles
47:32 The Value of Taking Time Off
49:09 Returning to Martial Arts
51:27 Consistency in Training
53:28 The Martial Arts Community
54:44 Final Words
Show Notes
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Show Transcript
Jeremy (00:00.342)
Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome. This is Whistlekick martial arts radio and on today's show I'm joined by my guest Renchi Anthony. I didn't ask you before in whistler Whist okay with the s not a Z got it got it. I have an s that sounds like a Z so that's probably why I was going there and
Anthony Wisler (00:10.395)
Whistler, yeah. Whistler, yes. Yeah, yes. Ha ha.
Jeremy (00:22.294)
we're gonna talk about, who knows what we're gonna talk about? You know this show, if you've been here before, you know that we could go in any number of directions and that's the fun for me and hopefully some of the fun for you. But if you want things that are a little less undetermined then you could go to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com and see all the other episodes that are done because those are all up there. We have transcripts and video versions and there's the audio versions and there's the show notes, all that good stuff. And then you can also go check out whistlekick.com to engage with.
Any number of things that we have over there. If you buy something, use the code podcast one five, sign up for a newsletter, see all the things we're doing to connect, educate, and entertain you, the traditional martial artists of the world. But hey, and now it's for you. So, so Renshi Anthony, thanks for being here.
Anthony Wisler (01:08.183)
Thanks for having me.
Jeremy (01:09.838)
appreciate you being here. You have close ties to at least one person who has been on the show. I don't know if that's gonna come up. If it is, we'll save that for some organic stuff. But I'm gonna ask you a question that I ask most people at the beginning because it is the beginning and we're at the beginning. What was your martial arts beginning?
Anthony Wisler (01:30.095)
My martial arts beginning was about a little over 20 years ago. I was about, I want to say 14. It was getting started in mostly karate, Seigirō-ryu, same as Victor. So karate and jiu-jitsu got into it because a friend of mine decided he wanted to do it and it wasn't something I was ever really looking to do or anything, but I wasn't.
overly involved in sports or anything like that when I was younger and my parents were kind of pushing me to get involved in something, to do something. Yeah, yeah.
Jeremy (02:03.65)
Just, you gotta do something. You can't come home and... What was the thing that they didn't want you doing when you came home? Was it video games? Yeah.
Anthony Wisler (02:10.679)
Video games, TV, yeah, stuff like that. So it was, you know, big more. I didn't have a lot of friends growing up. I had good friends, but just not a lot of them. And you know, I was homeschooled, so I didn't have that social interaction. They just wanted me to do something. So he brought that up and with some persuasion, I was like, all right, fine, I'll do this. And it ended up being something that now obviously has been a major part of my life. And I only wish that I started sooner.
Jeremy (02:23.008)
Mmm.
Jeremy (02:39.65)
So 14 is an interesting age because you're still... The only people who don't think 14 year olds are children are people who are younger than, or they are 14. Right, when you're 14, you think you're almost an adult. But when you're an adult, you know that 14 is not, that you're, some of us may be a little closer than others, but there's quite a gap there. But you are old enough to remember things that you might, or to think of things you might remember.
as you get older and I'm curious, did you have any ideas of what martial arts training might be when you were 14 that either were realized or it was the opposite?
Anthony Wisler (03:23.279)
Um, not really. I mean, I guess you see, um, stuff in movies and stuff, obviously grow up and this was early 2000s. So, I mean, Chuck Norris was still kinda on TV with Walker, Texas Ranger and all that. I'd watched that with my parents and stuff. And you see kind of that kind of martial arts and very quickly realized that there's a big difference between movie martial arts and actual martial arts. And
things that you think would work or that you want to work don't really work that way. Kicks and stuff and punches have to actually land correctly in order for them to hit somebody and the person doesn't fly 15 feet back when you kick him in the chest. So just kind of a reality check of what happens when you actually make contact with someone, you're actually fighting someone. It's not like the movies. It's not as...
exaggerated and drawn out things happen much quicker much tighter in and much less telegraphed I'll say yeah
Jeremy (04:25.762)
Do you remember if you found that difference from TV movies? I'm gonna lump in video games here as well. That if you found that difference to be exciting, because sometimes people start training and they think it's going to be that, and it's not that. And they go, oh, this isn't really what I wanted. I wanted to learn how to kick people 15 feet. I wanted to learn how to do the, you know, the 10,000 technique sort of volley of a fight scene.
Anthony Wisler (04:52.291)
Yeah, at first, you know, I was because I'm younger, it was kind of like, Oh, wow, yeah, this doesn't do that. But then, as you start to see how things really work, I mean, it's kind of a different realization, which is also kind of cool. It's like, Oh, the body moves or doesn't move like that. And it's kind of getting like a real anatomy lesson of how the body can actually react to different things. So it was
Yeah, on one end it was like, okay, I can't really do that. But on the other end, it was like, Oh, I never realized that this is how things work. So it was kind of a whole eye opening thing in all and of itself, even though it was completely different from what you see. Stuff. So.
Jeremy (05:38.25)
Now I think it's fair to say if you've been training for 20 plus years, at some point you fell in love with martial arts. You fell in love with your training. How quickly did that happen?
Anthony Wisler (05:47.671)
Yeah. I would say at first, you know, you had that, you know, initial excitement of doing it and I made some friends and my friend got me into it, was doing it. And it was just the fun of doing that. But he ended up leaving the school, I would say about, I don't know, like three years in while we were doing it. And then at that time around our age, all my other friends that were there were kind of going off to college, you know, so it kind of split. So at a point there was no one really there my age.
It was much older and then much younger. So it makes it really hard to kind of train how you want to when you're around 17, 18 years old. You know, so I ended up leaving for a while there as well and didn't come back till probably about three years after that. And at that point, I think is when I really started falling in love with it. Because I came back after some friend that got me into it, unfortunately passed away during that time. And it was because of that. I had a year where I...
Jeremy (06:40.75)
I'm so sorry.
Anthony Wisler (06:45.387)
I shut down. I wasn't into martial arts. I shut down and my life was basically go to work, come home, get on World of Warcraft. And that was my life for like a year. I didn't talk to anybody and hang out with anybody. I didn't do anything. And through my mom trying to express interest in martial arts, again, going and visiting a different school, ended up bringing her back to my original school. I was like, oh, let's try. If you want to do this, let's go here because I know this is good. That got me back into it. And at that point I was like, all right, if I'm doing this again.
I'm in 100%. I'm gonna dedicate my life to this. I'm gonna actually make this a major commitment. And I think at that point, it really, it kind of turned into something that I wanna do this versus, you know, my friend got me into it and I'm doing it with them. This was now 100% my choice. I wanna learn. I wanna continue to do this. I was at, I'll say about a purple belt at that time. So I hadn't gotten my black belt yet. And it was at first, it was,
I'm going to get my black belt. I'm going to complete this, you know, as it is, you know, I'm going to at least reach that goal. And then from between that, those points, it just became, no, this is something I love doing. You know, I love my school. I love the people I train with and some I didn't ever want to give up.
Jeremy (08:06.787)
Such a powerful and unfortunate set of circumstances, right? To lose a childhood friend as a child.
can be brutal. I had friends who had that experience. I didn't have that experience. But, you know, there's a little bit of a legacy, right? Your life was irreparably changed because of that encouragement. And there's something, well, it absolutely does not even out the balance. Something kind of beautiful there. That thing that he enjoyed as much.
Anthony Wisler (08:17.502)
Mm.
Jeremy (08:46.526)
as he did to get you involved. You still do. That's kind of cool.
Alright, so 17, you've kinda, you know, you're committed. I mean, that's the word I would use based on what I heard. You went from maybe sort of casually participating to being committed to your training. And yeah, there's a big difference between 14 and 17. 14 year olds are rarely committed to things, at least, you know, not longer than a few weeks. Oh, okay, I did poor math, I apologize.
Anthony Wisler (09:16.835)
It was about 20, 20 at that point. Yeah. Yeah, that's all right. Sorry It was about 17 or so when I stopped and then I came back at about 20. So
Jeremy (09:25.31)
All right, all right. That makes even more sense now. Okay. And where did you take it from there?
Anthony Wisler (09:31.839)
From there it was at that point it just became I was at every single class You know we had classes I think it was Tuesdays Thursdays and Saturday mornings and I was at every single one as much as I could be you know I only missed because work got in the way or something. I couldn't make it But other than that I was at beginner class intermediate class advanced class. I was Anytime I could get there and train I would and I at that about green belt pro belt in our schools when
instructor likes to have you start teaching on the side to get some practice and teaching because you're starting to get up in that rank. Um, so you start teaching on the new students or the white belts on the side. And I was doing that all the time, mainly because people who were supposed to be on schedule didn't show up and I was there. So yay me. But you know, what turns out to be, Oh, I got to cover this person turns out later to be like, well, that was a benefit to me because I got to teach more, you know? So I learned my stuff a lot better than some others that
didn't show up when they were supposed to and do the things they should have because and not against any land of life happens, but it actually ended up helping me more because well, if I'm going to be here and I have to teach, well, I better pay attention to what I'm being taught so that I teach it correctly. And I basically became a mimic for my instructor. Like how he did it is how I did it. And just from went on from there and from about 20 to about 27 ish, whatever.
whatever the year was, about until 2014. So about 2009, 2014, to 2014, until I moved away for a little bit and then I got married and all that, and then that's bringing me to here. But I was there constantly from about 2009, 2004, about five years, I was in every single class I could be in and that was pretty much became my life. It was a work home and if I could be at the dojo, I was at the dojo, you know.
Jeremy (11:27.518)
One of the conversations that I'm always interested in when they happen has to do with when children start training and what the parent's perspective is. Did you and your parents have any conversation about how martial arts was impacting you?
Anthony Wisler (11:46.039)
Really, I think they were glad I was doing something. They were at tests when they could be. I mean, obviously when I couldn't drive, my mom or dad would take me, so they were there. We had a kind of a small dojo, so there wasn't a whole lot of room to sit in and watch. They didn't really hang out, but that never bothered me. But they were always supportive. When we did demos and stuff, they would come, and like I said, tests and everything, they were there. But...
No, it never really came up much. They didn't have any real background in martial arts or anything like that. So they didn't really know anything about it. They were happy I was doing it and having fun with it. But it never really came up too much.
Jeremy (12:31.574)
Alright, so you said you moved away, you came back, did you train while you were gone? Did you dabble in something else?
Anthony Wisler (12:41.603)
So when I initially actually moved away, there were times that we moved as a family for about a year out of state, but we were still close enough. I was back occasionally. But in 2014, I actually made a whole very big life change. I started trying to take up scuba diving as a career. So I did training. No, it's not. Um.
Jeremy (13:00.546)
it's really not like martial arts at all.
Although, if you put someone on the ground and had them try to swim, it might look like some really early attempts at sparring. I don't know, I'm forcing it into, I'm forcing that.
Anthony Wisler (13:11.119)
Yeah?
It could, yeah.
Anthony Wisler (13:18.843)
Yeah, but so I actually spent four months in Roatan Honduras Doing training for the scuba diving and becoming an instructor in scuba so that had similarities when you start teaching but Did that for a while ended up getting a job a few months later in st. Thomas or I was actually diving for a living I did that for about three months and this was all 2014 so started about april and then
I ended up coming back home in February of 2015 because it just was not financially feasible anymore. Islands are expensive. But through that whole experience, that was probably one of the best experiences of my life, that whole situation with training and all that. And I grew a lot, becoming a little bit more independent and all that because at this time I was still living at home because we're in Jersey. It's expensive and my parents weren't kicking me out so I wasn't about to try to leave.
Jeremy (14:16.686)
Perfect.
Anthony Wisler (14:17.091)
Yeah, so when I came back, obviously I came back home so I started training again when I came back because I was there again and decided, all right, the whole Jacques Cousteau thing is not my thing. I need to make, I don't need to be a millionaire, but I need to make enough money to survive. So I had to figure out a career and all that. But during that time, during 2015 is actually when I met my now wife.
We started dating again this whole time. I'm still training when I come back, but we met and married rather quickly. She's a military in the coast guard. So she got orders while we were dating to go to training. And then from training, she was going to end up moving. So we ended up meeting in May, married in December, and then April the following year in 2016, we actually moved to Texas.
Jeremy (15:12.298)
That's the way you preface that. I thought you I thought this was going to be one of these you know TV or movie plots where it was you know we met in May and we were married at the end of May right that's that that's where it sounded like it was going to go.
Anthony Wisler (15:22.699)
No, not quite that quick. But, you know, it was really just logistics with military moving and all that, why we rushed it as much as we did just so I could move with her and all that. But so in 2016, we moved is really when I finally moved away from my home school. You know, that was in Jersey. We ended up moving to Texas. And at that point, that was.
One of the hardest things, like the going away, the diving and all that. I kind of knew that was going to be temporary. And I figured at some point I'd be back. The move to Texas was, Nope, I'm married now. This is now my life. And I don't know where we're going to end up. Cause obviously with military moving, I could end up any state really. So when we moved down there, yeah, for the first few years, I wasn't doing anything. I tried out like a, there was some.
school that did Muay Thai. I figured that's close enough to what I did but it's a little bit different so I figured I'd try that out but I went for a couple months and I was like, I didn't like the school and all and then took way too long to get back into anything else. I used work as an excuse like, oh you know, I'm getting home too late. It was just an excuse. But about, let's see, two years before we ended up leaving Texas, I got into the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and I started doing that. So until I had about a year and a half in that.
Um, unfortunately I started at the end of 2019. So coming right up into COVID in 2020. Uh, yeah.
Jeremy (16:53.622)
Yeah. So I want to poke at that for a moment because to the audience, I think we say it often enough, I don't really prepare for episodes because I want to put myself in your place and make sure that I'm asking questions that aren't rooted in me knowing things that you don't know. But one of the things that I know about your original curriculum from my time with Victor is that there's a really strong Japanese Jujutsu component there.
And I'm wondering if that played a role in you choosing BJJ.
Anthony Wisler (17:23.167)
Um, not really in the role of choosing it. Um, I had known, I had some friends that were in it and they loved it and all that. And I don't know where it came from, but there was always, I guess, just a stigma with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, I guess, because of how they taught themselves as being one of the best and all that. And I guess just hearing it from other traditionalists, it was all like, nah, that stuff's not, and I was like, I don't know, but it was different.
And that was the thing, instead of trying to like stay on the same thing, that's what I was doing is to try to do something what I thought was kind of completely different. I did all stand up and I'd never done anything on the ground. So I was like, well, on my feet to the ground, that's pretty different to me. So I figured, all right, let's give it a shot. And at that point, I had gotten my third degree in my school. So
had some experience now, been teaching for a little bit while I was there. So I kind of knew my stuff. I was like, all right, let's do something different. And it ended up being a lot of fun. It was a wake up call almost to be like, wow, I don't know what I'm doing down here. Yeah. Everything's the same. And this is like, people will say, well, it's the same thing. Just on the ground. Like, yeah, the same thing on the ground is a lot different when you can't move your feet.
You know, I can't just move around to the side of this guy and do this. Like, yeah, it's the body only moves in so many ways. But when you can't use certain parts of your body to use things, it changes a lot. But it was fun.
Jeremy (18:58.634)
Nice, okay. And where did things take you from there?
Anthony Wisler (19:03.055)
So from there, I was doing that right up until we moved again into Virginia where we are now. So I had about a year and a half of that. So just shy of my blue belt in that. Then we came to Virginia where we are now. And with my work schedule that I had at the time, I didn't have time for anything for a little while. Nothing now. I am a stay at home dad now.
Jeremy (19:25.419)
What do you do?
Hahaha
Jeremy (19:32.334)
What were you doing? What were you doing that was robbing you from martial arts? Oh, okay.
Anthony Wisler (19:35.612)
I was replacing windshields, but I was a mobile unit, so I was on the road. The area up here, I was doing the same thing in Texas. I transferred down there. I had a much better management and upper management team. We're moving here. It was a little bit different. The schedules and routes that you took were horrendous. There was a route that would take me two hours away from my first job.
Jeremy (19:40.93)
Yeah.
Anthony Wisler (20:01.167)
and I'd have five or six jobs and it was just, yeah, I wasn't getting home, you know, till six, seven o'clock at night. And it was constant at some point, or the early, was it 2021, or 22, whatever it was, I don't remember, one of those years. The year I ended up quitting, they had put us on mandatory six day schedules, mandatory 50 hours a week. It was like, so.
And I was 40 minutes away from my home from where I work. So when I get off, I'd still have another almost hour drive home. That couple with a bunch of other stuff. I was just like, I can't, I was so stressed out. I was hired weekends became, I don't want to do anything because I don't have the energy to do anything and I've got to be rest because I've got to do this all over again next week. And so it is. And my wife saw and, and it's funny that the day I text her is like, I don't want to do this anymore. Would you care if I quit? She was like, no, go ahead.
Jeremy (20:37.154)
Yeah.
Jeremy (20:45.482)
It's tough on a family, it's tough on yourself.
Anthony Wisler (20:56.675)
I tell you the weight that lifted off my shoulders. Oh my God. Yeah, it was that bad, you know, and to have my wife support him that it was, it was something I can't even explain. And you know, the initial thought was like, fine, I'll quit, I'm gonna take a month off relax and then start looking for something else. And just being home just had its own benefits. We ended up pulling the kid out. We had our kid at this point.
Jeremy (20:58.954)
The smile. For those of you listening, you're not seeing his smile as he's talking about quitting this job.
Anthony Wisler (21:25.751)
So we ended up pulling her out of daycare, which saved us some money doing that. And then just being home became so much easier, especially not having to worry about, well, what are we going to do with the kid if I'm at work and she gets called into work? Cause obviously being military, not always, you know, a set schedule and things can happen. So overall it just became so much of a nicer thing and it was a benefit to us. You know, we're able to make the finances work, thankfully. And it's just been great ever since. Um, but as far as training.
now that I actually had free time. You know, I started training myself again. I just, I got some mats in the garage and I started working out again, trying to do some stuff. And then I actually found out that the, instructor that Victor's training with, with the Bagua, you know, he lives an hour and a half away from me. He's like, oh, that's not too bad, but you know, a little hard for consistent training. But I start to go to him every once in a while, just to, you know.
get some interaction and I know who he is and it was just, you know, that kind of Marshall fellowship almost. And, you know, he mentioned to me like, Hey, I got a student who runs a school near you. And he told me, I looked at it. Oh yeah, that's only 20 minutes away from me. I was like, okay. So initially I didn't go because I just forgot about it and whatever. But I am yeah life. But I am now training in and Bagua at a place 20 minutes away from me.
Jeremy (22:44.651)
life.
Anthony Wisler (22:53.588)
So...
Jeremy (22:54.062)
Nice. So talk about the similarities and the contrasts, you know, with your background in other things versus the Bagua, because that's a style that I think most of the audience has heard of, but we haven't had a whole lot of people on the show talking about it.
Anthony Wisler (23:14.287)
So similarities, I mean, every art, when you really get down to it, and you study that every art is the same, different but the same, you know, again, the body can only move in so many ways, but how they apply different things is different. And the biggest difference is kind of a mindset of how they apply things. You know, the karate with our school, like with sparring, we focus a lot on points fighting. That's kind of what we do. And I think that's a lot of...
the harder styles anymore with some minor differences. But so the idea, you know, space, come in, come out, you know, you get in, do your thing, back out again. Well, the Bagua, when they decide to go in, they don't leave. They just stay there and beat on you until there's nothing left. So there is no go in, go out. It's come in and hit everything you can and keep pushing.
So that was a huge just mental shift of like, okay, I can't just go in, grab a couple points and run because when they come in, they're not going away.
Jeremy (24:20.746)
But let me guess the first time first few times as you're leaving, they followed you and you weren't used to that. And why do I know this? Because I've had this experience and it was very unnerving.
Anthony Wisler (24:26.419)
Oh yes! No!
Anthony Wisler (24:34.647)
Yes, and it was. I had to learn very quickly that I can't do that. Their whole main part of their premise is circles, and they move in circles a lot and they go around. So they don't necessarily just go in and out. They do, but they go around. I had to learn very quickly like, oh, I need to go around. Now, we train this in hard styles too. It was like, oh yeah, moved off to the side. But it didn't.
so hard to click in your head like, oh yeah, I can use angles. Especially when the people you fight also don't. So, you know, that whole thing of like, you really need to train or spar people not of your school because you get into rhythms and ruts and you learn how everybody fights in your own school and you never really grow because you're fighting the same people and everybody does the same thing. So you learn what works against this person and that and that's what you use.
I go into this other school and I train with this guy who not only fights differently, but is also kind of a bull. So when he comes in, it's like, oh, get out of the way or get run over. And I had to adapt very quickly. And it's probably one of the fastest adaptations in sparring that I've had because I had to, and within a couple of weeks, I was fighting different. I had to because what I did wouldn't work. And I loved it.
You know, it's one of those things about being out of training. It's not just the physical, like obviously you get out of shape. You're not doing stuff, but just the mental, like when your mind is not in a, a mental state of martial art, you think differently. And I never realized that of how much you don't have to think about being in that state when you're constantly training, cause you just are, but when you get out, you know, at first you think, Oh no, I'm a martial artist. I'll think that way.
But when you stop getting pushed on it, you don't think that way anymore. And it slowly starts to decline. And I realized that at a seminar I went to and they started showing different things and it never used to be a problem learning a new thing and picking it up and going and I'm staring there like, well, what did he just do? Like, how do you move like that? Like I should know this, but, and then after I started training again with the bakwa, I went to another one and that came back. I was like, Oh.
Anthony Wisler (26:59.843)
Why was that so much easier to pick up? It's like, Oh, cause I've been training again. My mind is working again. I'm actually thinking in all right. How does my body move the block to move to strike and all that, you know? And it's, it's something I never even considered until I was actually out of it and came back into it was like, wow, my mind has been deteriorating in this way. Cause I have not been training. And that was kind of, regardless of what I'm learning, that alone was a joy to feel again, cause I started training again.
And I miss that.
Jeremy (27:31.262)
The last episode I recorded, I don't know the order that these are necessarily going to come out, but my recording just prior to you, well, we did some math and the average martial artist spends maybe 2% of their waking hours training. And so it makes sense that it would so quickly fade. You know, it also, I also am kind of looking at it from the other side. Wow, 2% can have that substantial an impact, but
Yeah, the mindset, maybe the techniques don't fade, maybe the memory doesn't fade, but the approach, the attitude, the mindset, the context for life absolutely can dilute pretty quickly.
Jeremy (28:16.484)
And so what's going on with your training now? It sounds like that brings us up to today.
Jeremy (28:26.05)
What is, would you call yourself a Chinese martial arts practitioner? Have you set down for a period the things that you started in?
Anthony Wisler (28:38.115)
No, I wouldn't say that I have. I don't practice them as much as I should anymore, and I need to get back into doing that. But I mean, I look at it as you can't lose what you've learned, and there's no reason to. Like, just because the styles are different, there's no reason to put one down and pick another one up. You simply take what you know, you keep it, and then you add to it with the others.
There's absolutely no reason to think, well, this I like better, so I'm just going to get rid of that. Well, it's great that you like this better, but don't discard what you already know. Take what you know and apply it to that which you like better and then merge them. You don't have to directly overlap and create a whole new art, but we do that in our style as well. My original style is like, if you see something you like, you steal it. Just take it and use it yourself.
The idea of purity of the martial arts, I think, is ridiculous because it's like, oh, so I'm going to only do this way when I think that way is a better way. Or one of my students might learn better this other way, but no, I teach it this way because this is how it's done. He'll just have to figure it out.
Jeremy (29:55.582)
I think more to that point, that notion of purity, and we talk about the subject of traditional or classical martial arts and what that means, but if we simply confine ourselves to the most basic definition, go look at any school and take the students that have only trained at that school, do they all move the same way? They don't. Do they all use only the same techniques?
They're all different because they're different, because their lives are different, because their bodies are different. And theoretically, a style has options for all of those people that work well. But it doesn't mean that it's a factory turning out the same robotic versions of each. And in fact, I would go so far as to say, if everyone starts to look exactly the same, something's off.
Anthony Wisler (30:53.187)
I agree. Art should not... I mean, if it does too, the art will stagnate. Then it's not growing. The art should, as much as it should stay to its roots, it should also grow. And as people find ways that work better for them with different... If a round kick works better for somebody in one way than it does the traditional way, okay, well, yes, he should know how to do it the traditional way.
But when it comes to actually application, if he finds this way he's figured out works better, let him do it. And then he has that too. And now you've developed two ways to throw around kick, you know, and it's like, don't lose the traditional, but add the other to it. So your art then grows and progresses because if everything's like, no, do it this way. Like people are going to find things that don't work for them and then just get rid of them, which then they lose from the art. So they'll keep what they can make work.
and then just get rid of everything else. And what good is that? Then you lose things. I mean, we've lost enough from the beginning of the martial arts to now, from things not being recorded or things being secret and all that. So if we lose even more because we don't want to teach somebody a different way to do things, where are we gonna be in another 50 years?
Jeremy (32:13.65)
Exactly, exactly. I look at it almost in the way that one might look at a song. If I'm going to put my own stamp on it, I need to know the way it was originally done. Or it is best that I know the way it was originally done. I respect it for what it is. And if I'm going to pass on that song and really respect and honor it, I want to pass it on the way that the original artist did it. But it doesn't mean I can't show
the way I've done it, the way others have covered that song. I think those things can operate independently. And I think that not only is that not a detriment, I think it's a tremendous asset because you can't have growth or progress without change. If it's exactly the same, not only is it not going to get better, we've done the math on the show though, we can logic it out, it gets worse.
Anthony Wisler (33:07.631)
That's actually another argument for why I wanted to do something different. It's like, if I only train the style that I've trained, yeah, it'll get better with the different styles of, say, karate. You know, it'll get a little bit better because I'll get different views slightly from different schools. But if I can take a whole abstract view of it, I might find a whole other way to look at situations and it won't just be the same linear type thing, because most karate is very linear.
But I might be able to take a more roundabout approach to things and just get my mind thinking in many different ways of how to use a technique I've known for years, but when I see it done over here, it's like, oh wow, I never thought of that. So just in that, for my own growth, that was kind of the main reason I wanted to do something a bit different and the Bagua is just available to me. So that's the route I took.
Jeremy (34:04.682)
I love those moments, those moments of, oh, that's what they meant. Oh, that, yeah. Can you talk, will you talk about them?
Anthony Wisler (34:08.138)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I've had a few of them recently and I miss that. If I can remember them. I know I've had them at the time, but it's just when they move in. And again, because of the way they fight, again, it's much closer. Like with their and when they do their forms and stuff, it's different things like, OK, well, that's a step in and block. And like, well, but how does OK, did I kick them, push them away and then kick them? It's like.
No, you held onto his arm and you broke his knee and then you elbowed him in the face. Oh, that's what I'm doing. You know? Yeah, because it's weird. It's like, why am I, like, I just kicked him. Why am I elbowing him? It's like, oh, I didn't kick him away. I kicked him in the knee and he's still right here. So that kind of thing is like, and it's just having those light bulb moments again. It's just, it brings me back to when I first started training seeing, I remember the first time I saw someone get thrown.
Jeremy (34:45.81)
Oh that... that makes more sense. Now I don't hate that move or that form.
Anthony Wisler (35:09.727)
I audibly went, oh, because I'd never seen that before. And it was like, and obviously I'm like 15 or whatever, but it's like that feeling, like I hate that I lost that for a time, you know? And then to have that come back, it's not the same, but it's still that excitement of, oh, that's new. Now I have an understanding of how things work and it's more like, oh, I can add that now. Now I have something else I can do and that really hurt, that was mean.
But I like it.
Jeremy (35:45.234)
So how about starting the Bagua with a background? Because one of the things that I think, if anybody out there who's cross-trained knows that what you learned before can be a tremendous asset, it can also be frustrating to you, your fellow students, your instructor. I look at martial arts training as sort of a language, and the language that you started with, I'm gonna guess the way that
to a certain degree you see physical movement is rooted in what you first trained in. Where have some of the upsides and maybe some of the challenges been in bringing that language to something different?
Anthony Wisler (36:25.243)
So, yeah. I mean, so the main upside, I would say, is just rewiring my brain. It's getting me out of patterns and kind of making me think in different ways, which Bagua has actually been really good for because they do it within their own system. They tell you to go one way and they're like, okay, now don't do it that way anymore, do it this way. So, which is really good. I think that's great. It keeps you out of patterns, but still instilling memory enough to do with the things you need to do. The hardest...
Jeremy (36:44.558)
Hmm.
Anthony Wisler (36:55.247)
things to adjust is just that, is getting out of those patterns and language actually being one of them. They call things different things. So like a round kick to them is a circle kick. It's like, so when you start saying circle kick, I got to think, wait, what's that? Or the different, just the different names of technique. And, you know, with the Chinese arts, they're very...
Jeremy (37:11.598)
Hmm.
Anthony Wisler (37:20.191)
scriptive of how it's like a hand sweeps cloud or whatever is like, oh, okay, what's that? And stuff like that. So that's a minor inconvenience really more than a detriment. But my old habits of how I move, like there's certain, we call it Muxin, like that no mind of thinking, that muscle memory type thing of that we just do all the time. And one of those is when we kick, we follow up with a back fist. It's just
one of those things we've ingrained over the years. And a couple of things we do is like you kick and then you elbow back close. And it's like, I had the hardest time dropping my hand after a kick to elbow and then back fist on a certain move we do versus just throw it right off. It's like, we don't do that. I'm not trying to say yours is wrong, but understand that I've got 20 years of this ingrained in my head. So it's very hard for me to stop.
doing what I normally do and which in one sense is not a bad thing. It's like, hey, that's ingrained enough to know that, hey, when I do this, I'm going to do that. Cool. But on the other end, it's like, okay, if I break that habit, I won't lose that. But now I'll know what to do if, A, I throw that cake, oh, he's not there for the breakfast anymore. He moved. I can do something else. You know? And that's where I think the-
Jeremy (38:18.434)
tough.
Anthony Wisler (38:42.639)
fault of getting ingrained and things can happen because and I think you see it with younger students when they start to learn stuff, they'll do something, you move in a way that other students don't and they go, what do I do now? Because you're not where you're supposed to be for my technique. Like, oh, well, yeah, because I don't want to be because I know what you're going to throw. But to do that now, I think with my background, and that's another reason I wanted to do things is because I've got
grow in some way in my art. I've got to find the way I want to grow and I look back at like my instructors and other instructors I've trained with and so and they talk about when they came up you know and by the time they were my age they had three black belts and three different styles and I'm like when you first hear like okay good for you but now I look at it it's like well that means they've had more experience with different viewpoints and I have I have this one thing for the past 20 years which is fine
But I don't have any other viewpoint of how other arts see things. And it's like going into a fight with knowing one thing when the guy you're fighting knows 20 things. And it's like, oh, I see this, but he sees everything else. And if I can't see other things, how am I going to grow? I want to know, what is the Chinese guy going to do or Chinese arts guy going to do when he comes in to fight me?
Well, I've never fought one or never trained in it. I don't know what he's going to do. So I'm going to come on myself and he's going to circle around to my back. And how do you get there? Cause we don't move that way. You know? So just as my own growth is like, all right, well, I want to see the other perspectives, I want to see what they do. What I know what some others do. They're similar enough that I've seen, okay, I could adapt to them. But some of these things are so different that I got to see what they do because.
I don't know it. Like I don't know how to fight them. And if I was to fight someone before I started training, even the little bit that I've had, I wouldn't know what to do. With the instructor I'm training with now, if he was to fight me before I had any training, I would totally, I know I'd lose. I did in training. But it would be one of those things. He would have totally wiped the floor with me because I'm not used to someone fighting that way and getting in close and staying there, you know, and knowing how to hit and strike and just the different ways they do it when they're in close.
Jeremy (40:51.94)
Hmm.
Anthony Wisler (41:06.415)
when I'm used to fighting at my reach. So overall, it's like, if I need to grow, I need to challenge myself. And that was one of the things too that I wanted to do with training is like, I need to put myself in positions where I don't know what I'm doing per se and change my whole outlook on things. And that's kind of where I'm at.
Jeremy (41:33.822)
You bring up such an interesting point that there was a time in the way martial arts is being done, let's call it kind of generically in the West, where people acknowledged, yeah, let's do different stuff. Let's cross train. I'm going to train in this and then I'm going to go train in this. It was a bit more open. And I would say that was probably up until maybe the early to mid 70s. And that's not as someone who was around then. It's just based on
you know, the folks that I've talked to from this show.
And I think we're getting there again. I feel like it is far more accepted. And I think that's a really good thing because as you articulated a number of reasons for it, whether it's the, I'm gonna be better fighting in whatever way you mean that, someone of this martial arts upbringing, if I've been through some of it myself, to just the mental challenge.
right, from what we understand of the brain, learning a new language, and I would say a new, a dramatically different martial art is a new language. I think of martial arts as a language. There's benefits there and all kinds of stuff in between.
Anthony Wisler (42:51.675)
What was that?
Jeremy (42:53.43)
Does that mean that you've thought about what your next flavor or genre, language might be?
Anthony Wisler (43:02.959)
Not yet. I just started in this. I mean, yeah, it's because I think about it eventually. Yeah, but not right now. I'm enjoying the Bagua now and there's so much to learn in it as of now that I'm trying to just focus there. And then from there, adapt to what I already know and kind of mesh them and see what I can make work between the two and how to implement them together versus separate.
Jeremy (43:07.555)
You smiled.
Anthony Wisler (43:32.271)
So that would probably be my next step that I would do. Because right now, again, I'm just focusing on what I'm learning. And I just started in October. So I've been doing it a couple months now. So I don't know that much. But between training where I am and I still go, I try to go once a month to the other, to his instructor, because he's close enough. Again, once a month to try to just train with him because he's...
been doing it longer than I've been alive. So he's got a lot more knowledge and deeper knowledge. Whereas the guy, nothing against the guy I'm training with. He's about my age, my rank, so we're similar styles. So, but you know, those instructors that have just been around longer than you've been alive, just have such a deeper understanding of stuff. And he teaches me different things than what I'm learning over here. Same style, but different aspects of it. And he does a lot more of the internal stuff on the Chinese side than the instructor I'm...
Jeremy (44:15.787)
Yeah.
Anthony Wisler (44:31.407)
close to me does. So it's I get two aspects of the same thing, one with the more physical the other the internal which is really been interesting because that's something I've never thought I'd ever get into at all and that's been I'll say interesting because that's about the way I can explain it.
Jeremy (44:51.07)
No, I get it. It makes all kinds of sense. Yeah. Okay. So here's a question that I don't often ask, but I've certainly asked before on this show. Because your journey has been, let's call it varied. You know, because I don't want to apply any judgment to it because I don't see what you're talking about as either good or bad as you've trained in different things.
But as we consider your varied journey, if you were to go back and talk to 14, 15, 16, 17 year old you, would you have any advice on the subject of training and training in different things?
Anthony Wisler (45:36.431)
Um, I would say different things I'd say not initially. I think it's good that you stay in an art for a while. I don't think you should get into something, do it for a year, and then go do something else unless you really don't like it and you're trying to find something you like. But if you're enjoying it and you're learning and you find yourself that you want to actually get proficient at that, stay there and focus on that. I would say around the time you start getting to about a black belt.
then you might want to start veering and cross training a little bit here and there. I think it's good to have a good foundation in one thing because that foundation will translate to most anything else, at least the basics. If you have a stance, it's a stance. They might do their front stance a little different than you, but you're going to know the basics of a front stance. You're not going to have to relearn everything. Whereas if you start jumping around where you start just getting to learn your stances
go do something different and well, their stance is different. Well, now you're trying to manage two of the different exact same stance. And not to say you can't, but it's just going to throw your mind off. So I, well, which one do I like better? And then it's you're going to cross lines on things of basics that you don't need to be crossing lines cross later on when the basics are solidified and you don't have to worry about those anymore, but I would say.
Don't take as much time off would be my biggest. Like, don't stop. Yeah, don't stop.
Jeremy (47:06.558)
I was wondering if we would get there. But here's a question. I think this is an important question because anybody who has had a martial arts school for let's say 10 years or more knows that if they're at the grocery store, if they're out in the world, they often have past students come up to them, oh, I'm gonna come back, right?
Would you have the same relationship, the same understanding, the same passion for martial arts had you not taken the time off?
Anthony Wisler (47:43.227)
I don't know. I might not have because I would have never understood what I had left behind. If you don't, like they say absence makes the heart grow fonder type thing, you know. So you realize what you're giving up. So when you come back to it, it's like, oh wow, I really miss this. And that's kind of what I came to. But while you stay in a place, you get complacent and you just kind of stay there, oh yeah, I enjoy blah, and you're just going through. So probably not.
I mean, I wouldn't change anything. Obviously, I wouldn't go back and actually try to change anything if I could because everything shapes you in the way you are. And who knows, I might have just been more arrogant without taking the time off. I don't know. Never stepping away, never having the time off and having to relearn things a little bit. I'd probably be a bit more flexible than I am right now because I wouldn't have stopped. But you know.
Jeremy (48:37.146)
Hehehehe
Jeremy (48:41.65)
I often hear from folks who watch or listen to this show and they reach out to me and they'll say, I wanna get back into it, I've thought about getting back into it. And Marshall Martini becomes a bit of a way that they can dip their toe in before they go. So I wanna speak to them for a moment and I'm hopeful that you'll chime in with your thoughts after. It's okay to take time off. It's okay to miss it.
It's okay to want to go back and it's okay that you go back when you're ready. Martial arts is always there for you when you're ready to go back. Martial arts is not disappointed in you, right? You might be disappointed in you, but that's on you. So when it is time to go back, just be thankful that you had that opportunity to go back and don't kick yourself for what you've lost. That time is gone. And instead of spending energy on kicking yourself, spend energy on training.
Anthony Wisler (49:39.355)
Yeah, I would say you have to be honest with yourself about wanting to go back. If you really want to go back, you will. But don't be like, well, I can't make it every class this week. So I'm just not going to do it on two bit. Okay, so go once a month or go once every two months. Go when you can. Don't say that, well, I can't go back consistently so I'm not going to go back. Go when you can. Like if you, yeah, if you have a free day or a free night, go.
Jeremy (50:05.173)
I think that, yeah.
Anthony Wisler (50:09.219)
beginner class something just if you can't spend all Most time class takes all night or your night when you go because it's once you do that You don't have time to anything else, but go what you can go for an hour and say, okay, I gotta go Sorry, but just go but be honest with yourself about it. Don't make excuses of feeling bad because well, I can't do it Oh, if I'm not back all the time, it's not just get back into it. Yeah
Jeremy (50:33.846)
The only place where some training is worse than no training is in someone's mind.
Anthony Wisler (50:39.607)
Yeah, 100%. It's something.
Jeremy (50:44.258)
Something is better than nothing. Some food.
Anthony Wisler (50:45.683)
And that something might help drive you to then change your schedule or whatever because you know that, okay, I want to get back into this now. Instead of, yeah, I want to, it's now a desire to get back into it. So you'll make more of an effort to change your schedule or do whatever you need to do to get back there rather than whatever. But
It can be a sacrifice sometimes. And again, this comes back to you, you have to be honest with yourself. Do you really wanna get back or are you just saying that because you don't want people to think, well, he's just giving up? Either way, it's fine. Not everybody keeps going, but yeah, like you said, don't beat yourself up over it. No one really cares except you. Yeah, it is.
Jeremy (51:27.246)
It's a waste of time, it's a waste of energy. If you want to train, train. Most of the majority, if we add up my training, the majority of my training across a week is spent, is done in my kitchen at 30 to 60 second intervals.
Anthony Wisler (51:42.747)
And that's the other thing.
Jeremy (51:43.438)
kicking cabinets closed, can I put my foot over here, can I touch this point and then this point? And you know what? It adds up. Some training is better than no training. Would I love to have a beautiful, huge space 10 minutes away that I could run my school or take classes from someone else? Of course I would love that. But I don't have that. And I'm not gonna
Anthony Wisler (51:52.315)
Still training.
Jeremy (52:13.73)
Complain about not having it until it magically shows up. This isn't field of dreams. It doesn't work that way You got to put in the effort
Anthony Wisler (52:19.683)
Yep. Mm-hmm. 100%.
Jeremy (52:24.15)
So we're on the same page about that. If people wanna get a hold of you, how would they do that? You got social media or anything?
Anthony Wisler (52:25.207)
Yeah.
Anthony Wisler (52:29.847)
Well, they have... kind of. I don't do a whole lot of social media. My email is one and then we have our school website that they can go through. So that's seigidoryuonline.com and if they message on there it'll come to me and I can get in touch with them through that. And then our Facebook page too which is just segidoru or facebook at segidoru.
Jeremy (52:43.449)
Okay. What are those for folks who are listening?
Jeremy (53:00.354)
which is S-E-G-U-S-E-I.
Anthony Wisler (53:01.723)
I see I G I D. Oh, I'm trying to spell in the air. I don't have anything. Yeah, I'll send it to you and make sure it's all right, but I can send you those.
Jeremy (53:12.35)
We can make sure we have it linked as well. Okay.
Great, awesome. All right, well, I appreciate you being here. And now I'm gonna have you kind of wrap this portion. What words do you wanna leave the audience with?
Anthony Wisler (53:28.443)
I would say for those who have never trained in martial arts, but have thought about it, do it. It doesn't matter what style, it doesn't matter where it is, just try it. Get into it, do it. For those that have been training, if you've been out of it for a while, obviously get back into it. But for those, if you've never done it before, the martial arts, to me anyway, if you find a good school, becomes family. It's not just the...
we're a family. No, it really does. I mean, there really is something about training with someone in a way where you're punching them, throwing them, you know, semi hurting them because that stuff doesn't always feel good. But the bonds you create with someone that you can throw back and forth and slam with the ground are so much deeper than what you'd get outside of that. I mean, I guess you could equate it to sports and everything, but my best friends are all martial artists.
and the relationships I have with them are deeper than any other relationships I have. So if you're looking for something to belong to, to actually form bonds with people, I don't think you can do better than martial arts.
Jeremy (54:44.302)
Well said. Those common bonds, those common languages of training give us a lot of context to better understand ourselves and the people around us. And that's why we're doing what we do here at Whistlekick. If it means something to you, please consider sharing this or a different episode with someone if you think, you know, I know somebody who'd really appreciate this. Send it to them. Help them see what we're all talking about, what we're all doing. Help us grow the world of the martial arts. Help us get everyone in the world to train if just for six months. That's why we're here.
Anthony Wisler (54:51.419)
Mm-hmm.
Anthony Wisler (55:03.535)
Mm-hmm.