Episode 852 - Renshi Robert Warner
Today's episode is a chat with Renshi Robert Warner from Kiefer's Martial Arts in Rhode Island.“Seek people who can help you grow.”
Renshi Robert Warner - Episode 852
Today, we embark on a journey through the fascinating world of martial arts through a chat with Renshi Robert Warner. We dive deep into the realm of titles and the profound significance they hold in martial arts culture.
As martial artists, we've all grappled with the question of what to call our instructors, fellow practitioners, and ourselves. Sensei, Renshi, Grand master – these titles carry weight, denoting not just rank but a lifetime of dedication and knowledge. In the United States, "Sensei" has become synonymous with respect for those who guide us on our martial arts journey. But what about those honorary titles, like Renshi, that signify an elevated level of expertise and commitment?
In this episode, we explore the complexities of martial arts titles, shedding light on how they reflect not only rank but also one's place within an organization and the time invested in mastering the art. Do titles really matter, or is it the respect we show one another that truly counts?
Join us as we unravel the significance of martial arts titles, share personal experiences, and even take a trip down memory lane to the days of some carpeted dojos, where the energy of the martial arts world first ignited passion. So, whether you prefer to be called Sensei or simply mister, as long as respect prevails, we believe it's all good in the martial arts community. Let's kick things off!
Show Notes
You can reach Renshi Warner at:
FB: Robert A Warner II
Insta: Rdubbs02891
Insta: Macarra BJJ Westerly
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Show Transcript
Jeremy (00:01.038)
How's it going everybody? This is Jeremy Whistlekick, martial arts radio. Today I am joined by.
Rob Warner (00:08.776)
Rob Warner.
Jeremy (00:09.15)
Sensei? Well, do you go by Sensei or Renchi? I feel like I got both. Okay. All right. By Renchi Sensei, Renchi Sensei, Robbob Warner, who we had a chat before. We're gonna talk more. Maybe we'll talk about why he's got so many names.
Rob Warner (00:12.138)
I go, I feel like it's interchangeable. Wrenchy is my honorary title, so most people call me Wrenchy, but that's the sense that I'm cool with, because everybody's the sense that you're teaching, so yeah. Ha ha.
Rob Warner (00:27.15)
There we go.
Jeremy (00:32.226)
But if you're new to the show, go to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, find all the stuff that we're doing, all of our different episodes, because they're all out there. We don't ever hide any of them. We give you show notes and transcripts and lots of good stuff for all of our episodes if you wanna get the most out of them, go there. And then if you wanna learn more about what we're doing as an organization, go to whistlekick.com. We're here to connect, educate, and entertain the traditional martial artists of the world, which probably includes those of you in the audience. So check it out, help us out.
And now let's roll. So, you know what, let's start here. The idea of titles, right? And the honorary titles. And lately, and I think in part because of social media, we've had a lot of conversation, maybe you've been part of these conversations about how we handle titles in the West versus how titles are handled in Japan. The way, you know, call me this versus a title in Japan is often described as
Rob Warner (01:25.781)
Uh huh.
Jeremy (01:31.114)
you give it to someone, it's an honorific, you never demand it. Where are your thoughts around titles?
Rob Warner (01:35.467)
Right.
Rob Warner (01:39.499)
So, I think titles, at least in the United States, are at least from our association. It's one of those things that I feel like we've always been taught that sensei is always an acceptable title for anyone who teaches. Bonafide, like who is a teacher, teaches on a regular basis, you are a sensei. Because sensei is one who has gone before, right? It's a title that goes across the board. So.
In our system, even if you are an eighth degree black belt, you're still a sensei. Honorary titles are positional titles that kind of, for example, Renchi is a fifth and sixth degree in our style. And it's an honorary title, which is more or less, if you translate it, it's a polished student. So it's somebody who's obviously been around, kind of knows their material a little bit, specialized in that, you know, yes, you're still a sensei, but.
Now you're at this next level. I always like to say it's like the difference between a master's student and then an adjunct professor. Like you have that.
Jeremy (02:41.482)
Oh, I like that. That's a great comparison. Yeah.
Rob Warner (02:44.558)
So like even though you're in the same boat, you know, you're still, you just have that one level up just because of the time you've put in and just your position in your dojo. As far as demanding, I mean, I don't, and I know that there are people that are like, you know, super, no, you call me this or you call me this, and that's fine. I mean, everybody has the title to do this or that, but you know, I don't need to be called grand master.
Nattro Supreme, whatever, you know, with a cherry on top. Yeah, yeah, right? So it's like, I don't, to me, if someone calls me Sensei all the way till I'm 70, that's okay, because like I said, a Sensei is one who has gone before. I think it's, as long as there's a title that's respectful, it's all good. Because I think there's a lost, in some martial arts, that is lost, that position of, you know, what do I call you?
Jeremy (03:13.902)
Taco Bell's next meal.
Rob Warner (03:39.978)
You know, some people go by mister, which is fine. Some people go by coach, which is fine. In Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, I'm known as a coach, which is fine. But I think it shows the position within your organization in reference to your rank, but also how much time you've put in and, you know, a bunch of different factors like that. Yeah.
Jeremy (03:59.818)
I think at the end of the day, the respect is the more important part. And I think that, you know, I could call you Sensei, right? I could say it without respect, but I could also say Rob very respectfully. And which of those two would people prefer, right? Most of us prefer the respect. And I think as long as the respect is there, then the rest of it matters less. I won't say it doesn't, but it matters.
Rob Warner (04:04.782)
100%.
Rob Warner (04:11.25)
Okay. All right.
Jeremy (04:29.783)
less.
Rob Warner (04:30.638)
And I think with kids, it's good for kids to learn titles too because obviously you're still instilling those basic decorum, the basic decorums into their lives. So kind of saying, okay, this is professor, this is officer, this is doctor. They're still understanding titles and the importance of saying those titles, not saying Steve, Bob, Rich, whatever. You know your position, you know your place and they've rightfully earned those titles. So. Hmm?
Jeremy (04:33.207)
Mmm.
Jeremy (04:40.491)
Yeah.
Jeremy (04:58.906)
Absolutely. Now we opened with a bit of a atypical way, just because I like mixing it up. It's fun to mix it up. Why do the same thing every time? But we are here for a martial art show and we do want to dig into some of, if not what you're doing, at least how you got started. You kind of foreshadowed a little bit that you play in multiple spaces.
Rob Warner (05:09.271)
Right.
Rob Warner (05:20.907)
Hmm?
Jeremy (05:28.442)
So let's go back. What was the first one? Where did you start your martial arts journey?
Rob Warner (05:32.45)
I started in West Raleigh, Rhode Island. I was part of a Shoren Rue Shoren Con school in West Raleigh, downtown West Raleigh. And this is in the 1996, 97. So I was about seven or eight when I started. And the one thing that was, I want to say joyous to me, was I walked in, I saw these people punching and kicking, but like a young child, hearing the yelling, hearing the energy, seeing all this, it was kind of...
little overwhelming because I came from a soccer background. So you know, you're on a field, you're kicking back and forth trying to get, like I understood that, but now I'm seeing kicking pads and kicking this. And you know, I kind of come in and back then it was carpet floors, there was no padding. It was, you know, it was hard tiles. It wasn't that, you know, lovely, you know, inch and a half thick mat that we have now. And I remember an instructor coming up to me and said, hey, you know, what's your name? And I was like, you know, my name was Robert.
Jeremy (05:58.775)
Hmm.
Rob Warner (06:27.578)
My dad was introducing me. He was a police officer at the time. He had served in the military. And prior to, he had dabbled in martial arts. Not as much as I did. But anyway, so I was about that age and he came over. And, you know, of course, like most martial arts instructor, they're trying to make some, you know, connection. So at the time, Power Rangers were huge. Everybody wanted to be a Power Ranger, right? So they're like, you know, what color, you know, what Power Ranger do you like? And I'm like, what do you mean?
He's like, do you like the red one or, you know, do you like the orange one or whatever? I'm like, the red one, obviously. It's the red one. You want to be that guy. He's the boss. He's like, all right, you want to learn to be a power ranger? And I'm like, yes. So I was really excited to start. Um, so I started at a youth program and then from there, um, it evolved because at that time, like that karate, that sport karate and that training was still very big. Probably by like, I think orange belt or purple belt, it started to compete.
Um, and fast forward, I, you know, I was in black belt training. I got to junior black belt. Um, and then I got, uh, and this is all the while I'm playing a little bit of soccer off to the side too. So I was still doing it up to junior black belt from junior black to black. There was a slight hiatus because when I was growing, there was a benign bone cyst growing in my leg to the size of an orange. Um, and basically the doctor at the time scared everybody and said,
You know, surgeons are very straightforward. They're like, you know, he's growing tall. He started off small, he's growing tall. And we don't know if it's cancer. So any parent, anybody who hears that's like, great, you know, what are we gonna do? So, you know, I asked him, well, of course, my main concern is like, can I still go to class? And they're like, well, it's the size of an orange, so if you hit it or you accidentally strike it, you could fracture it. So I'm like, okay. So I was devastated.
Luckily it was operable. They tried one surgery attempt. It didn't the second surgery They ended up having to cut about this much into my bone Routing out and then putting some bone back and then bringing it back and they're cutting through the back of the knee on my left leg So I was in a cast I was in the hospital Yeah, oh, this is yeah, this was big and apparently I like I said, I don't know the medical terminology behind it But it was benign tibial
Jeremy (08:40.255)
Holy cow.
I've never heard of this.
Rob Warner (08:53.582)
It might be a tibial or fibula bone cyst. And all it does is when you grow, I guess if the bone is growing, that space, if there's space in there, only hollows out. So the bone will keep growing, but this space will just keep getting larger and larger. And sometimes it has stuff in it, sometimes it has nothing. If it has nothing, it has no density, with no density, now you have a weakness. So yeah, I woke up in the hospital, had the drain inserted, it was all the way in my leg. So I was on, I think.
slight pain management because I didn't realize how like painful it was. It was really, really painful. Got home, it was just, I mean, I can just remember the pain. And like I said, at this point, I was like 12, 13, something like that. And I just, every day hurt. It hurt to get up. It hurt to go get a drink. I'd had to hobble. I think I was 12 or 13, something like that. So I have to...
Jeremy (09:28.59)
Sounds like.
Jeremy (09:42.745)
How old were you at this point?
Oh, that's brutal. Kids shouldn't have to go through that stuff. I'm so sorry.
Rob Warner (09:51.074)
Oh, it's, it's no, that's it. You know what? I think it plays into the success later on. I really, that's how the way I look at it. So yeah, it took me a while. I mean, I felt like every time when they got to PT, cause I asked them every time, can I go back and train? They're like, well, no. I'm like, okay, when? So I always wanted the win. So I never kind of backed down from it. And then I went through that period of like, I don't know if I actually can go back to that. Maybe it's never gonna be the same.
Jeremy (10:11.503)
Mm.
Rob Warner (10:21.05)
And people were like, listen, you can still do it. You can still do it. So I woke up and I was like, you know what, screw it. I'm just gonna go and train. And I can remember the PT, what they did is for PT, they had to obviously get your limb to flex and extend. But one of the most painful parts was nerve testing, which is a nerve stem, which is basically they put a needle and they put electricity to make sure, yeah, to put it through that area so they make sure the nerves work. So it was like a taser in one part of your body. It was extremely painful.
They basically said, look, nerves are still growing back, but the good news is you have them. So I was like, you know what? I want to go back to karate. What am I going to have to do? And they said, well, you're going to have to make it stronger. I said, screw it. Okay. So we bought a weight set. One, two, I forget whatever. I think it might've been dick sporting goods or something like that. Got one of those bars that has a squat rack in the back and a bench press. So I started squatting and I felt like every time I was going to throw up. I mean, it was just, it was like having a little piece of wood supported.
big table. So I was I was in immense pain. I remember like tears going through my eyes. And then I said, Okay, I need to run. I need to walk. Well, walk first. So I started to walk that I started to run. And then I really like started to push myself because I'm like, Okay, I made a promise. I'm going to go back. This is perseverance. So if I'm going to do it, I'm not going to put the brakes on, I'm going to go 100%. So I started running, I would run until I felt like I was going to throw up, I'd squat until I couldn't do it anymore.
I had received tapes, they used to sell, it was like 300 bucks at the time, of all of our systems kata. And I would literally be in the basement doing my kata. I would do it every single time I would work out. And then I went, okay, well, I got to go to kobudo, weapons, I got to go to weapons. So I'm like, okay, I'll do that. And I practiced every day, every day, every day. I got back in the dojo. I felt good. Took a little while, but obviously it took some time to get back to where I needed to be.
And then, so I got back to it, still doing the same thing. I didn't split that routine just because, you know, I really wanted to continue. And at that level, I still wanted to kind of, my interest was teaching. So I was like, all right, well, let me, we called it like a SWOT program, so students working at teaching. So I started to help out with that. And then I started to get back into it. I received, I earned my first degree black belt.
Rob Warner (12:47.046)
second degree black belt. So this is about 2004, 2005, something like that. So in 2006, we had a guy walk in, a guy who I'd known for a long time, and he said there were tournaments going on. So that was about 16, 17, somewhere around there, 16, 17. And they said there's a Foxwood's national tournament. And I guess Foxwood's had put together this big thing. And of course they were in cahoots with Crane and NASCA, which obviously you probably know about.
And they said it could be this nice national tournament Foxwoods. Why don't you do it now again? I'm still recovering from the thing, but I was like, you know what? Maybe this is my time to prove it to myself I can do this so I Went B to the W on it. I was like I was training every day. I went to the dojo twice a day Including on Sundays. I would spar I would find people to spar and find
Time to do my kata. Every time I made a mistake, I had the times three rule. If I screwed it up, I'd do it three times. So every single thing I would do it. Ended up training my butt off every day. And then I got there and I was able to make tops in my division. So it was pretty good. So it was, yeah. I mean, it was definitely a happy moment. I have to say I was kind of proud of it. Actually, those are probably the only trophies I kept over the time because
Jeremy (13:49.274)
Hmm.
Jeremy (14:03.298)
Pretty solid comeback story.
Rob Warner (14:14.086)
I was like, you know what, this was more of a defining moment for me. So I felt really good. Now, kind of backtracked a little bit. I went too far. I went far forward, but let me go back. So I went to Okinawa for the first time in 2004. Interesting because, again, I had been introduced to a few different masters at this point. But Okinawa really opened up my eyes because I didn't really...
understand the connection between what we really study and what we really study with the background where it comes from. So when I went there, long trip, I don't know if you've been to Okinawa at all or Japan, it's a wonderful place. Okinawa, I got off and I'm like, okay, it's hot. Heat just hits you and you're already drenched and somebody's like, guess what, you're going to be wet for 10 days, so get used to that a little. So I'm like, okay, that's fine.
Jeremy (14:56.019)
No.
Rob Warner (15:12.578)
So the master we have, I'm really close with now. He means a lot to me, he's a good mentor, but he was strict on us. And I can remember being like, you gotta know this, you gotta know this, and it's gonna be like this. So 14 at that time, I think it was 14 or 15, somewhere around there, I had known some kata, most of it, but I didn't know some of them.
So I remember being told, guess what, you and this guy are gonna go on the roof on the fifth floor and you are gonna practice your kata and get it all done. And I said, you know what, okay. Because at that time I didn't understand and the expectations back then were a little different. So believe it or not, I kinda liked it. I know that sounds a little like sadistic, but I mean, it's kinda like going out there and I'm like, you gotta get this down, this, this and this. And they said, just don't mess it up, get it right.
So thinking back at that age, I think I felt a little over.
Rob Warner (16:19.51)
the expectations. But then when I was able to walk around to Okinawa and kind of see besides the martial arts, I saw why they think like that, why they train so hard, why things are always perfect. Because the little old lady who runs the, let's say the warehouse that has a bunch of fish in it, right, everything's clean. Everything's pristine. Everything, no matter whether it be a plate.
a box, everything. And I was like, cool. And then I saw a little landscape or a little lady squatting down and she had a comma. So she had a little blade and she's trimming up the bushes. And I'm astounded because here we are with our shears and everything else and we're hand, and this little old lady is just, everything's nice and perfect. And then I went down the street to go get something to eat some soba and there was this bowl, and I'm sure you've seen it online, that looks exactly like you would eat it.
but it's not the actual food. I got that bowl of soba and it looked exactly like what it actually was made by as like a template. So I'm sitting here and now things are starting to click and it's like these people take pride in their work and they take pride to be, they strive for perfection and always improve it. And I said, you know what? This isn't somebody being hard on me at a dojo,
Jeremy (17:19.842)
Hmm
Rob Warner (17:47.606)
This is the culture, this is the expectation. Be the best you, do the best that you can. And I really took to that. And I think I came back to the United States with a little bit more of an appreciation, not only for martial arts, but life. I had went over in 2018 again, and then in 2000.
Rob Warner (18:11.03)
No, I'm sorry 2008 and then 2012 so I went in 2004 2008 2012 and I mean every time It was just it was just intense. It was great I think I understood more and more every time I went and I mean it's just I always tell martial artists if you Have a master that says we have a connection. We have humble dojo. We have a dojo there. That is the center
Go to it, just go. I know it might be costly, but you will not understand the root of your system until you've made that trip. It's a personal trip. So in my opinion, I think people should do it, if they can, yeah.
Jeremy (18:51.006)
Yeah, it's a solid recommendation and while I haven't gone, it's on the list. It's one of the many, many places that I want to get to. You know, of course, we on the East Coast, you know, sometimes travel is not as convenient to Asia from here. You know, if I want to get to the UK, if I want to get to Iceland, pretty easy, pretty fast. You know, I mean, you have a real airport down your way. We don't.
Rob Warner (18:55.653)
Mm!
Rob Warner (19:07.05)
Ain't that the truth?
Rob Warner (19:11.122)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jeremy (19:18.366)
So I have to take a hop just to get out of the state so I can get to a real airport. But once you get to a real airport, getting across the Atlantic's pretty straightforward. So, all right. And just to kind of close up any lingering stuff with your leg, is that all? I mean, did it get to 100% and you don't worry about it?
Rob Warner (19:21.378)
Yeah.
Rob Warner (19:27.374)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Warner (19:40.222)
Um, the, I, I would say that it got stronger and stronger as the years went on. Um, I have to maintenance it. I do have to keep doing exercise like squats and extensions. I still have to stretch. Um, if I get hit right on the, the actual leg, it kind of hurts a little bit. But what I say is it's something that I have to take medicine for every day. So I think it's.
Jeremy (19:51.147)
Okay.
Jeremy (20:00.431)
Mmm.
Rob Warner (20:07.23)
Mostly recovered. It's fixed, but it's not perfect and it doesn't need to be because I'll just keep maintenance it and it'll be fine.
Jeremy (20:13.562)
that makes sense. All right.
Jeremy (20:18.398)
You made those trips, you know, the first time you went to Okinawa, you didn't know what to expect. But the second, third time, you had some idea of what to expect. But you were also a kid. And you said your father dabbled, you didn't mention your mother. So I'm going to guess that they didn't go with you. So they didn't understand. So what I'm most interested in is after that first trip, what was it that you said to your parents?
Rob Warner (20:22.35)
Hmm?
Rob Warner (20:29.027)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Warner (20:40.468)
No.
Jeremy (20:47.45)
Because if I'm doing my math right, you know, that second trip, you probably didn't have the money to pay for it yourself.
Rob Warner (20:55.216)
I think I saved because I had started working in 2004. The first trip my parents mostly funded. The 2008 trip I think I mostly funded and they might have just thrown some dollars to say hey here's some insurance money just to make sure everything's good.
Jeremy (20:57.39)
Okay.
Jeremy (21:02.915)
Yeah.
Okay.
Jeremy (21:09.974)
Okay. So, but if not financially, you still had probably got their blessing, right? They probably, it doesn't sound like you hopped a plane, you know, forget you, mom and dad, I'm going back to Okinawa. What wasn't you told them or what wasn't you told other people? What was, what were the reasons that this had to be a thing that you were going to do again and then again?
Rob Warner (21:17.422)
Hmm.
Rob Warner (21:22.102)
Yeah, no.
Rob Warner (21:34.118)
I think that for me it came down to a special place of where I learned some life lessons. I think it was if I can see how much pride people have in their work in the last trip, I want to see what other avenues that they might have that they keep that same amount of pride. And I said, I like that it's clean. Who can't? I mean, it's aesthetically pleasing.
I'm kind of a clean freak myself. So, and then, you know, I said it's just the people there are just, they're genuinely nice. Like I hate to say it, but in America, people can look you straight in the face and not be genuine. And that's kind of sad. In Okinawa, I feel like every time you have a conversation with someone, it's meaningful. It's something that, you know, every word that you say means something to them.
whether good or bad, obviously you don't want the bad. But every time I went over to Okinawa, I was like, you know, it was cool to actually talk to someone. You know, not just saying like in passing, hey, how are you? You got the hey, how are you? How actually are you? How's your heart? How's life? You know, people are genuinely interested in conversation, meaningful conversation. And also sharing more history, because I feel like when I went over, I did not get...
the entire picture. From how I understand it, you know, just like anything, the more that you are around a culture, the more secrets, the more juice you expel out of that. And I felt like I just wanted more. I just wanted to say, hey, you know, it's cool to go the first time. What didn't I get? What other cultural assets could I attain, you know, while I'm there? What are life lessons? What are other things? You know, what could it open my eyes to for my own training, but also my own life, you know?
So that's, I mean, I would say that that's something that would, yeah.
Jeremy (23:37.114)
Makes sense, makes sense, okay. You know, it's interesting, you're talking about these life lessons and finding this value, and I gotta say, 14, 15 is such a young age to wrap your head around that. And I think most of us at that age, even if we can recognize it, we can't appreciate it, right? Life lessons really have value in hindsight. We start to see, oh, look at this thing that happened. It made me who I am now, but if...
Rob Warner (24:04.439)
Great.
Jeremy (24:05.29)
If then is two weeks ago, it's really hard. It's five, 10, 20 years down the line that you start to say, ah, what would I have been like? What would your life have been like if you never went to Okinawa, right? Like really hard to imagine, but in some vague way, dramatically different.
Jeremy (24:28.378)
Do you think you had a good appreciation of the scope of what you were experiencing?
Rob Warner (24:36.93)
The first time, I want to say, you know, you kind of hit it on the head. I think it was a, I needed to digest it when I got back. So it was one of those I needed to appreciate it when I came back. Cause you know, like anything new, you're kind of blinded by the light. You're kind of like, whoa, you know, like this is, there's a whole bunch of stuff going on, but then I feel like I needed to digest that whole thing. Like you said, because you know, young, I don't, you know, it wasn't like I understood the life lesson right away, but.
Jeremy (24:38.048)
Yeah.
Jeremy (24:44.839)
Mmm, that's a good word for it.
Rob Warner (25:05.654)
When it came back to me, I'm like, oh, wow, that's profound. So I would say agreeing with you from what you said before.
Jeremy (25:15.998)
What happened with your training or what changed with your training when you returned?
Rob Warner (25:22.07)
I think the level, I was always serious when I stepped on the floor, but the deliberate movement, the no excuse, like train it as if it were real kind of thing. I mean, I always understood snapping and I always understood good body mechanics, but when you watch a bunch of 70 and 80 year olds have awesome body mechanics and here you are at.
you know, 14, 15 years old, it's inspiring. It's like watching a tournament. It's like, wow, like, look at that. I want to be like that. You know, for, so for me it was, yeah, it was that. Yeah.
Jeremy (25:59.898)
All right, so if we were to kind of plot your story on a timeline here, you know, we've got some points. What's the next piece in the story?
Rob Warner (26:06.03)
Mm-hmm.
So 2008 comes, I think I had gotten third degree around then. I'm always bad with dates. I know I wrote it down for my bio in the website, but I am so bad. Somebody was like, how old are you? You should know how old you are. I'm like, man, I turned 35 this year and I'm still trying to wrap my head around what I did last year and the year before that. So no, no good. I'm so glad to hear that. It's very motivating. It's true though. It really is true.
Jeremy (26:17.326)
Sorry.
Jeremy (26:30.282)
It doesn't get better. It doesn't get easier.
Rob Warner (26:37.046)
you know, kids, wife, you have all that, you know, just your dynamic changes, you know. So after that, I think I immersed myself not only more into training, but, you know, picking up more appreciation for teaching, passing the knowledge, you know, kind of having the opportunity to pass along that knowledge and to go, to dwell into different styles. Like I was introduced to Muay Thai at that point and...
Jeremy (26:39.054)
Yeah.
Rob Warner (27:05.362)
I think it was, was it 2008, 2009? 2009, 2010 I had met my current Jiu Jitsu instructor, Charlie McShane, who's a black belt underneath 8th Degree Marcio Stimbowski out of Norwalk, Connecticut. He's one of the only 8th Degree black belts in the area. The key is the only in the area. And it was at a karate thing, people were getting together doing karate stuff and.
He was there for, I think, some of the kickboxing and other stuff. He actually came from, the best thing, which really gravitated me toward him, was the fact that he came from a traditional karate background as well. I think it was, it wasn't Taekwondo, it was, let's see, the other one. Can't think today. Yes, there it is, that's it. So he understood that kind of line of thought. And I remember the first time, like, we were doing ground drills and I'm like,
Jeremy (27:42.271)
Mm.
Jeremy (27:49.454)
Thanks, you know.
Rob Warner (27:59.326)
I'm strong, I can do this. I know karate. Karate does everything for me. I think I got armbarred in like three seconds. I'm like, okay, well, let's try that again. Armbarred in another three seconds. I'm like, okay, well. Then it kind of sparked it. Right away, it was one of those things that I kind of wanted to try. I was still very well developed in karate. I was still training that religiously. I still do. That was the new scope.
that I wanted to help myself expand because in my mind I was saying, okay, standing up is great. You got to learn stand up. That's very important. People throwing a punch. But then I thought to myself, man, you know, crowd tag doesn't really do a lot of ground stuff. Maybe I should consider that. And I was telling some of this story the other day. What really turned me on too was we had this little fight club, I guess you could call it, a bunch of guys that would get together.
different styles and we would just try stuff. So I was thinking, I can kick this guy in the head and he was a jujitsu, what belt was he? Might've been blue or something. He's from Coventry, Rhode Island. I don't think he's living in there anymore. But so he, I was like, I'm gonna kick him. So I'm hook kicking him, side kicking him. Like, oh yeah, I'm fine. This guy's got nothing. Then he traps my leg, throws a quick hip sweep on me.
goes down, gets me an arm bar. I'm like, this stuff keeps coming back around. I mean, I'm thinking that I'm gonna get away from it and I can't. I'm like, so there is a big gap in my own training by not training the ground. Because prior to, I never saw it anywhere. No camps, no nothing. I've seen throws and pins and wrist blocks and all that. I've seen that. But I never had someone go, here's your arm. Let's transition from side control to mount. Let's choke you with your gi. Let's, you know, let's.
do different rocks and trap things. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, wow, that's a big hole in my game. So time went by, went back to Okinawa for the last time. Well, not actually the very last time I planned to go back, but the last time and that's when I had tested for my Yondan for my fourth degree. And that was, was that the year? No. So I came back, always motivated, still doing the kickboxing.
Rob Warner (30:25.622)
And then my good friend Sal, I met him through Muay Thai. We were both training together. And you know, he was kinda, I would hold pads for him. You know, I'd teach him a couple of things. So we'd come in my kickboxing class. So we would do all that. And he said, hey, you know, I've been looking at this jujitsu stuff. And I noticed, cause I brought Charlie in again for like a seminar, just for ground stuff, for basic self-defense at the time. So I said, yeah, sure.
you know, let's go up and see Charlie's school. And at the time it was like small, no air conditioning. It was a hot house. And I can remember putting on that gi and starting my journey on, you know, the jujitsu side. And I came in and, you know, he'll tell the story. I used to run around people's guards. I'd keep running and, you know, keep muscling everything and use my horse stance to not let people pull me down. And
You know, it was very different, but I, you know, I, and I want to say this because I think it's one of the most important aspects I took away. It was nice. And I know people wouldn't say like nor I don't want to say normal people, but it was nice to finally become a white belt again. It kind of was like you have a clean slate. Now, yes, you're, you're adding something, you know, different, but this is only going to be added to your already your, your already skills, your skills you already have.
So from there, I just fell in love with it and I've been sticking with it ever since. I coach it now, so it's at my school. Have some good students right now, even people from other schools will come and visit. I've become friends with a lot of different people. I obviously still train with my instructor. I'll see Master Marcio, I'll see a couple others. We just had Brad Wolfson up, who's, Brad Wolfson's one of Marcio's first American black belts, so.
It's great. We all cross-trained. We all just developed. And I had received my Brown Belt last year from Haja Gracie because he was up for a seminar. So, yeah, I mean, life's been good. And then to get my Godon, my fifth degree, I got that at Kyoshi Aarons' camp, which I believe I saw Andrew at. That's where I met him. And yeah, he actually, they surprised me because I didn't, to me, and I know it sounds bad.
Jeremy (32:30.522)
this.
Rob Warner (32:48.93)
My rule has always been rank doesn't matter. Now I say that, it does matter, but to me it's you promote me when you think I'm ready. I don't have to sit here and say, it's not my priority, that's exactly, yeah. It's not my priority. What's my priority is enjoying things and making sure that everything's good. At 2008, they surprised me.
Jeremy (33:02.718)
It is not your priority, is what I'm hearing.
Rob Warner (33:17.678)
and I was able to be rewarded or be awarded and tested for Godot for fifth degree and that was 2018. So yeah, that's my story. I mean pretty much, you know, that's the big stuff. Yeah.
Jeremy (33:33.606)
How has, you know, how did your background in karate and stand up, however you want to term it, change the way that you present and teach BJJ? I understand how it's going to change the way you look at it personally, but I'm curious about how you teach it because I'm sure you teach it a little bit differently than some of your others.
Rob Warner (33:52.159)
Right.
Rob Warner (33:59.418)
I kind of followed my instructor's lead. The way he does things is by progression, which is the method I use. So like in kata you have move one, move two, move three, move four. In BJJ you have the... sorry my dog just she came in to say hi. Hi. But the one big thing that he always taught me was progression because
Jeremy (34:02.606)
Really? Okay.
Jeremy (34:06.51)
Okay.
Jeremy (34:15.93)
It's okay.
Rob Warner (34:26.382)
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu to a normal person is not normal. Laying down, having somebody press their weight up against you is not normal. It's just kind of a normal feeling. So, you know, like kata sequences, progressions help you learn that. So for example, I double leg take you down, I pass your legs, then I go to mount. That's like kata move one, two, and three. And then you go.
mount to side, from mount to a collar choke, or if they go to put their hand inside the collar, if you have a gi on, they go to bridge and roll you. Now you have another set. So that's kind of what helped me learn to teach it, was just like we do in the other martial arts, for every action there's an equal opposite reaction. Like in sparring, like in kickboxing, you throw a jab, I can parry it, I can flip it, and then I have my counter attack. So that's...
Yeah, that's kind of how we like to teach is progression because if you've never had any experience before, you can have better experience. Even if you've had experience, it's like I can elevate the technique just like I would during a karate class. Be like, okay, you're a shodan, here's how you can work as opposed to a green belt. Or, you know, as a blue belt in jujitsu, you know, the white belt's gotta do this, but here, add this in to make yours. So everybody's simultaneously growing together. So that's, yeah, relatively, that's how we do it.
And everybody helps everybody too, just like karate class. If a blue belt is with a white belt, they slow things down and help them. And we always tell people when they're in our program, look, we're not here to kill you. This isn't, you're not signing up for the UFC tomorrow. You wanna do tournaments down the road? Sure, we'll get you ready for that. But technique reigns supreme. You know what I mean? Position over submission. Learn the positions first, then we can worry about the damage later.
Jeremy (35:52.696)
you
Rob Warner (36:18.314)
So like I said, we teach it, that's the similarity in karate and BJJ, I would say, as far as teaching goes.
Jeremy (36:24.974)
So what I'm hearing that might be a little bit atypical in the BJJ world is that you're bringing in a bit more structure and formality. You know, maybe I would, I'm imagining that if I went to your BJJ class, I might see bowing and titles used more often than in a lot of other BJJ programs I've seen, is that?
Rob Warner (36:34.626)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Warner (36:48.706)
I would say crepte is a little bit more strict on that. You still have, you know, like you're a coach, people still respect you. You have that, you know, that bowing in where you still bow to center. But in BJJ, I wouldn't say it's lax, but it's different. So it's more of a relaxed environment, whereas, you know, Japanese hierarchies are very strict, pungent, you know, they're very like, which is fine, you know, just a different philosophy.
So I would say that one's more lax, it's more open. We still spar, we still do rolling, but that's just, I would say Jiu-Jitsu's a little bit more lax than.
Jeremy (37:25.57)
But how about the way it happens in your school? Is it closer to, yeah, does that stuff manifest a little bit more with the traditional karate tone, would you say? Okay.
Rob Warner (37:29.102)
So, for us.
Rob Warner (37:40.174)
I don't think so because I try to separate it, but I try to make sure people understand there are differences. If you train in karate and you want to learn BJJ, I want to give you the BJJ culture, not the karate culture, because it's different. Two different sets of rules. Right.
Jeremy (37:49.232)
Sure. Okay. Interesting.
Jeremy (37:57.826)
How much overlap do you have? How much overlap do you have with your students?
Rob Warner (38:02.175)
I'm sorry, say that again.
Jeremy (38:03.522)
How much overlap do you have? How many of your karate students are rolling? And...
Rob Warner (38:06.707)
Um... That's a good question. It used to be a lot more because a lot of them moved to college and everything else. I would say maybe...
2% believe it or not. Yeah, it's more yeah Yeah, I'm trying to you know, the reason why I started is I like it But also to round out my fighting skills and I'm trying to I'm trying to have other be other Correcting people look at BJJ and say this makes everything more well rounded So yeah
Jeremy (38:19.534)
Really? It's a small percentage. Oh, fascinating. Okay.
Jeremy (38:27.777)
Sure.
Jeremy (38:38.43)
Yeah, it's interesting. We've had a lot of folks on the show, people who've been training, you know, 10, 20, 30, 40 years who they say, okay, I want to do something else, something different. I want to put a white belt on and, you know, feel that experience. And for a huge percentage of them, and this isn't any kind of scientific or official survey data, but just anecdotally, it seems like a lot of them are gravitating towards BJJ and likely because it is
Rob Warner (38:50.353)
Hmm.
Jeremy (39:07.514)
complementary, but the skill sets are so dramatically different.
Rob Warner (39:11.787)
Yeah, they are. Yeah, they're different. I think, you know, BJJ in general will have a different kind of tone and underlayment as far as how it's taught the progression. But like I was trying to say before, like, you know, with karate, your skills in the amount of The word.
The amount of...
trying to put it in the right terms, so I don't wanna say the wrong term. The amount of focus, the amount of attentiveness is just as important in karate as it is BJJ, just different, so yeah.
Jeremy (39:43.706)
It's okay.
Jeremy (39:51.514)
sure.
Jeremy (39:55.606)
Makes sense? All right. So as you've added this in, I'm sure things have changed for you. The way you approach training has changed, the way you teach has changed, the way you would approach a defense situation has changed.
Jeremy (40:14.958)
What are you looking into the future on in terms of training or, you know what, let me roll all that back. I want to ask this question a little bit differently.
You're a thoughtful person, just the way you talked about your trip to Okinawa. It really gave me an idea of who at least I believe you to be. So I can't imagine that you don't have these moments where you go, hmm, what's next? What should I do? You know, give me a couple more years with this and then over there once I do XYZ, then I want to, you know, whatever that may be. Am I right? Do you think in that way? Okay.
Rob Warner (40:55.539)
Hmm. I do. And in the terms of what I want to get is to have a well-rounded area where people in karate want to train BJJ and round out their RF. BJJ want to do karate, that's fine. The reason why I define karate and BJJ is because I feel like there's a gap that we leave out when we take someone to the ground. We have the ability to get taken down after
someone after throwing someone. So I want to eliminate that uncertainty of saying, well, what if? I don't want someone to say, I don't want to not have an answer for them. I want to be able to say, well, if that failed or this happens, this is what you do. So to make them more confident in their abilities. And I want more people to train that. I want more people to train that and realize the benefit of both.
Jeremy (41:53.806)
Have you thought about adding anything else in? Is that a complete circle or are there still gaps that you think of? Yeah.
Rob Warner (41:59.811)
To me, I think they both teach quite a bit. They both teach you, you know, a lot of the self defenses we do come from like the practical application, some of which came from Krav Maga. But as you know, I'll go backwards. Krav Maga is the summation of a compilation of a few different ones. Krate, Judo has a lot of the same moves. So we all come from the same, you know, pool, just different philosophies as to what we teach and how we teach it.
Jeremy (42:18.179)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Warner (42:28.31)
But just, you know, that's, yeah. Just kind of rounding that out, yeah.
Jeremy (42:34.731)
Um, what else should we know about you?
Rob Warner (42:38.556)
Um...
Jeremy (42:41.47)
What haven't we talked about with respect to you, your training, competition, goals, having a school?
Rob Warner (42:43.286)
Let's see.
Rob Warner (42:50.183)
No, I think it's, I think making things family-oriented and making things a little bit more normal in society is kind of, in my opinion, how we should be progressing with schools. The problem is sometimes in the market of martial arts, people stay with the old school. This is what you have to do and we're going to do it like this for 60 years. You know, kind of like...
Jeremy (43:16.73)
Hmm.
Rob Warner (43:17.674)
When you go to some traditional girls like, oh, sensei, oh, keep the respect, but you're not, it's not in the feudal system. You're not like, oh, you know, oh, sensei. I want to make sure people feel more confident training, you know, whether you're an adult, whether you're a kid. So I'm trying to think here.
Jeremy (43:36.599)
What are some of the things that you do to make people feel comfortable when they come to your school?
Rob Warner (43:40.19)
When they come in, I don't sit on the floor with my chest puffed out and go, everybody come to Nidojo, my name is Sensei. I mean, we'll say our title, but you can call me, that way we kind of make it. When people come in, we kind of like to greet them like a normal person. This is how we run the school. And we'll say things when we do intros like karate or BJJ is not just about the-
the punching, the rolling, there's technique to it, there's other life lessons with it. And we wanna be able to bring people in. It's not like when they walk in, two people are playing rock-em-sock-em robots and people are fighting, because for some people that's a huge turn off. For adults, it's a huge turn off because a lot of them are professionals. They are doctors, they're lawyers, they don't wanna be getting hurt every time they come in. So we give that family atmosphere.
You know, like they can still have fun, they can still train hard, but they don't have to worry about getting hurt or they don't have to worry about that bad boy, Cobra Kai attitude, you know.
Jeremy (44:49.902)
Right on.
Jeremy (44:55.352)
What?
Jeremy (44:59.87)
What can we be doing differently? As in, yeah, well, let's talk about it from a school owner perspective first, right? Because again, you know, I'm thinking of things in terms of your thoughtfulness and the way you approach that answer suggests you've spent a lot of time thinking about this. So what are other lessons maybe that you've learned that let's say we've got a new school owner watching this?
Rob Warner (45:02.059)
In the general term...
Rob Warner (45:27.726)
Mm-hmm.
Jeremy (45:30.307)
What advice could you give to them, things that you figured out, maybe the hard ones?
Rob Warner (45:34.85)
Um, be you. Be your person. Be you. Don't try to act macho. Don't try to act too easy. You know, when someone walks in, be personable. Be focused when you speak and be meaningful. But certainly, you know, have a purpose. Every step you take when you're in the school, you
if you're running a school or whatever, you're managing a school, has to be meaningful. The way you direct yourself towards students, the way students direct toward you, you have to build a good rapport. You know, I was telling this to someone the other day, at the end of time, at the end of your time as a martial arts instructor, you wanna have more people, not to sound morbid, but you wanna have more people around your bedside that were affected by you. Not your money, but you.
because you made a difference in their lives. And I've worked with students who felt like garbage. They're like, my life doesn't matter. They just were in a really bad spot. Other things like, trying to think of people who had weight issues, people who were doing bad in school who were bullied, adults that couldn't find a place that didn't feel like family.
You know, we kind of, we want a place like that. You know, we want to be able to have people that, you know, have that place that is a little bit more you, but also here's where you can go with this. They have options, but they feel directed to a normal person versus a militaristic school. Still have that drive when they're training, but don't act like they're gonna get dumped on their head day one, in my opinion, yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy (47:24.122)
That makes sense.
Jeremy (47:30.362)
That makes sense. Yeah, no, that's a great point. Let's say we get together in another 10 years. What would you, and I said, you know, hey, Rob, what's happened in the last 10 years? What would you hope you were telling me?
Rob Warner (47:36.716)
Mm-hmm.
Rob Warner (47:43.962)
I would say I hope we've grown a larger program on all fronts karate, kickboxing, jiu jitsu, that more karate people are training jiu jitsu, that people are feeling a little bit more confident. Hold on just one second, sorry. Okay sorry, peppa pigs in the background. So um.
Jeremy (48:08.154)
It's okay. It's alright.
Rob Warner (48:13.158)
I would say growing the school, making it a little bit more personable for everybody, making sure that people in the community know more about the benefits of martial arts and not be afraid, whether you're a kid or an adult, to be able to feel like when you go to a martial arts school you feel safe, you feel happy, but you feel like you're going to get something out of it. For you. For you, the benefit of your life, the benefit of your family, and beyond that.
Jeremy (48:45.134)
All right. How do people find out more about you, follow you, website, social media?
Rob Warner (48:50.898)
So the school I come from is Kiefer's Martial Arts in West Loo, Rhode Island. We do have a website, so if you put www.kieferma.com, they can find us that way. We do have a Facebook page as well, and then we have Insta as well. And I have a Makaha Westerly page, Makaha BJJ, which is our system for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. And then, yeah.
I think that's pretty much our platforms right now.
Jeremy (49:21.882)
Okay, and I know you sent those over, so we'll have those in the show notes for folks in the audience. Make it nice and easy for them. Well, this brings us to the end, at least for today. So given the audience's martial artists, what do you wanna send them off with? What do you want them to consider or take from this? Or we can wrap in whatever way makes sense to you.
Rob Warner (49:26.516)
Awesome.
Rob Warner (49:32.098)
Hmm?
Rob Warner (49:44.206)
I think for people that are looking at this and other martial artists to keep on keeping on. Keep doing what you're doing. Do it well. But stay with the times. Stay where it's current. Not business sense. But think about what's the best direction for your school, for the system. Karate, in my opinion, in martial arts opinion, evolves with the times. We don't...
live in a perfect world, we never have, but there are more, there are different threats today than there were last time. More people are studying wrestling. Some people are wrestlers, but people have never done striking before. Some people, you need to have the opportunity as an instructor to be more well-rounded. Even if that doesn't mean that you have a BJJ program or you don't have a karate program if you're on the other side.
When you're well-rounded as a crud, a practitioner, who's a sensei, a renchi, or whatever, whoever, a coach, I think it's your responsibility to evolve for your students, for your students' well-being, for you to stay motivated, to keep hungry for that more knowledge, so that way you can pass good skills onto your students with contemporary problems. But in a way,
that fits the times. Back in the 80s and 90s, I mean I was born in the 80s, but in the 90s, late 90s, 2000s, crete and other styles were very traditional. I'm not saying it isn't because we stay very traditional with our crete. It's not like it's romper room. People can't just go all over the place and hang from whatever. It's not that. But it's one of those things that people just need to...
Focus on having a good modern environment without compromising the quality. And for you, you have to be a qualified person to teach. If you wanna, let's say somebody who's brand new is watching this, Marshall Iris is watching this. If you would like to be a better teacher, find better teachers, find someone you emulate. Do something that's gonna motivate you to teach. Don't just...
Rob Warner (52:09.846)
be like, well, I go on YouTube and this is how I seek my knowledge. Or, yeah, I trained 7,000 years ago and I just figured, find a good teacher, someone who's going to continue to motivate you even past 30, 40, 50, 60 years of age, someone who wants to put you in a better place. I think as a Sensei, that's our job. Our job is to leave people with better skills, whether it be competition.
whether it be self-defense, practicality, or just as a better person. Because I think that's what people forget is that as a martial artist, we have a greater responsibility to make people better people. When they tie the knot, you know, I always say, when you tie the knot on your belt and you bow in, whether it be jujitsu or karate, nothing else matters. Everything else stops. The person on the floor, the instructor's job,
is to make sure that is one of the best parts of their day. Whether it's stress relief or whatever, it's their responsibility to teach them and motivate them so when they go home, they're a better husband, they're a better father, they're a happier coworker, everybody loves those. You know, they're just a better person. And they can pass that along to their family. So if you're a new person out there, a new teacher, or whatever, you are currently an instructor, be you. Don't try to be anybody else, but seek.
people who can help you grow. And I always, I heard this great saying one time, if you wanna be number one, act like you're number two. Because that's going to push you to get better every single time. If you think that you are the head cheese and you've accomplished it all, your students don't gain anything from that, neither will you. You'll plateau. You know, karate is the never ending mountain. You know, we always say in our style, you know, when people start, they're down here.
but the pyramid comes to black belt. But the problem is, is there's a backward pyramid on top. So when you get to black belt, it's not the finish. That's just the beginning. Then everything goes back out like that. So, you know, going back to it, you know, just as an instructor, stay motivated, stay happy, stay healthy, be an excellent role model, both inside and outside the dojo. And remember that everything you say and everything you do will be a lasting impression on someone. You wanna be that person.
Rob Warner (54:36.466)
in life that when your time is up, somebody goes, I remember that guy, he helped me. I remember that guy, he taught me this, or I was having a bad day and this sensei told me how to deal with that. That's what you wanna be. You don't wanna be the person that gets in a bunch of students and teaches mediocre stuff. You wanna be the person who's finding the juice, finding the meat and potatoes of their martial art, of choice, whatever they study and they do it to the best of their ability for not only themselves but their students.