Episode 806 - Sensei Nick Taber
Sensei Nick Taber is a martial arts practitioner, instructor, personal trainer, and podcaster based in Massachusetts.
Before you get others to care about what you’re doing, you have to show that you care about them. If you do that then you’re golden. You teach the tenets, but you have to show how you live those and where they could improve.
Sensei Nick Taber - Episode 806
Many martial artists started training because of bullying and parents getting them involved. However, Sensei Nick Taber started his journey when he got bored with Tee Ball as a young kid and for his love of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. In fact, he could never forget the smell the first time he went inside a Dojo. Sensei Nick Taber fell in love with martial arts because his Sensei never treated him as an inferior student.
Presently, he took over Sensei Eric Gifford’s Cha-Sin-do after he retired. He is also a fitness coach and host of the Real Talks with Sensei Nick Podcast.
In this episode, Sensei Nick Taber talks about his journey to the martial arts with his Cerebral Palsy and his style Cha-sin-do. Sensei Taber also talks about why humor is needed as a tenant of martial arts. Listen to learn more!
Show notes
You may check out more about Sensei Nick Taber at nicktaberfitness.com or follow Sensei Taber on Instagram
Show Transcript
Jeremy Lesniak:
What is happening, everybody? Welcome. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio episode 806 with my guest today Sensei Nick Taber. I dunno why I keep looking off to the side. I know who I'm about to talk about. My name's Jeremy Lesniak. I'm your host here for the show. I founded whistlekick because I love traditional martial arts and that's why we have this show and all the other things that we do. And if you're new, you might say, hey Jeremy, what are all of the other things that you do? Well, we do events and we do products, and we have training programs. We've got a whole bunch of great stuff. And if you go to whistlekick.com, that's where you're gonna find all of it. It's all available for there, quite a bit of it for free. But if you find something there that's not free, if you use the code podcast15, it's probably gonna save you 15% on it. And I say probably because we have a few things that aren't discountable, but almost everything is. Now, if you like this show, this whistlekick Martial Arts Radio podcast, the top-rated traditional martial arts podcast in the world, according to many, we have a separate website, whistlekickmartialartsradio.com because we make the names of things simple. And what are you gonna find over there? Well, you'll find every single other episode we've ever done, all 806 of them. Actually, there's some bonus episodes so it's even more. And you will find on the individual pages for each episode, show notes including a transcript that you can search or copy and read on your Kindle, photos, videos, links. When we have guests on, we often link to their websites or their social media accounts. Sometimes there are things that we reference in the show that we later download and provide to give you more context. And the short of it is if you find an episode that you really love, there's a good chance there's something at the Martial Arts Radio website at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com that will give you more value, more context to whatever the thing is that we talked about on the show. Why do we do what we do? Well, we do it all. Because we are looking to connect, educate and entertain the traditional martial artists of the world. Our stated mission as a company is to get everyone in the world to train martial arts for at least six months because I believe that would make the world a much, much better place. And if you resonate with that mission, if that's something that's important to you, there are lots of ways you could help us in our mission. Yeah, you could buy something. You could also tell people about the show. You could join our Patreon, starts at $2 a month. Do you wanna know what episodes you're covering up on the show and guess we're about to have? Join the Patreon for just $2. But if you increase your pledge from there, if you go up to the five or the 10 or one of the higher tiers, we actually give you a whole bunch of great stuff. Exclusive content you're not gonna find anywhere else, bonus merch, all kinds of great stuff. How do we know it's great? Because people don't stop. Once they join the Patreon, they stick around for a while. And if you want the whole list, everything you could do, maybe you're a super fan and you love what we do, go check out the family page, whistlekick.com/family. You gotta type it in. There's no button that links you there from anywhere. And what we have over there is all the ways you can help us in support of our mission as well as some bonus exclusive, often behind the scenes or discounts, things like that that we don't put anywhere else. It's like a mini Patreon. Now let's talk about today's episode with Sensei Nick Taber. I'm thinking back to my conversation with him and I had a lot of fun. It was a great conversation, one that I think you're really going to enjoy. And I think what I'm torn with as I'm setting this episode up is not wanting to give too much away. There are things that I could easily say that might discolor how you take this episode. Not in a bad way, but just I feel like the more that I say, the more likely you're gonna take this differently. So I'm not gonna say anything else. I'm just, this is one I'm just gonna leave to you and say enjoy cause I know you will. Sensei Taber, welcome to Martial Arts Radio. How are you?
Nick Taber:
Wonderful man. How are you doing?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm great. I'm glad to have you here. Audience, we were just chatting as you might expect because it usually happens at this point, people in common, right? So we were just chatting about people in common and you know, I've got some ideas of where some of this is gonna go and I'm excited.
Nick Taber:
Yeah, man. I'm just really happy to be here. I mean, I've spent a long time so I got to tell my story.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Cool.
Nick Taber:
And with 33 years in the martial arts, almost to the day, and it's I mean, it's kind of thing everybody gets into the martial arts and it's always a weird reason, you know? And you know, you hear the stereotypical stuff like, you know, I was bullied, then I was brought to the dojo. I was, you know, I needed something to do, I was brought to the dojo you know. But the ones who fall into it really hard always have the very unique stories.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So what's yours? What's your unique story? How'd you fall into the dojo?
Nick Taber:
So, my first time when I fell into it, I fell into the martial arts because of the Ninja Turtles. Not...
Jeremy Lesniak:
[05:24.9] a lot.
Nick Taber:
Yeah. Not because it's like, oh cool, I eat pizza, I wanna do this. You know, my parents wanted me to do something. And they told me, they said, you know, okay, you've gotta try something. You can't just sit around the house. You can't just feel sorry for yourself and I was six years old at the time. So my dad knew somebody. He worked at a car dealership and one of his customers riding around the T-Ball League. And, you know, I'm like, okay, you know, we'll do T-ball. Sure. Let's see what happens. You know, and I got up, you know, we went to the clubhouse, you know, got the ball, got the bat, got the uniform, and it was first game, you know, it was one of those where, you know, the kids all got up and everybody got on base. Everybody got to hit the ball.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yep.
Nick Taber:
Scores kept. I got up and I stood there and you know, the ball is on the T. I stood up, did there, I looked at the umpire, I looked back and I went, this makes no sense. Like, this makes no sense. And I'm like, okay. My dad's like, do you really wanna do this? No, this is really boring. And you know, there was a friend of his who said, you know, hey, you know, my son goes to Tiverton Taekwondo. You might want to check that out. And we drove by on the way to my grandparents' house and the sensei there had painted the ninja turtles on the welcome sign. And it's just not like, you know, it was like little drawing. I mean, he put it on plywood and it was sticking out like eight feet high and it was really big and all that. And I just remember…
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's cool.
Nick Taber:
Sitting in the back of the car, I saw him and I went, “Dad! I wanna do that!” You know, and I'm like, okay, let's go check it out. And I'm sure you have a similar thing of the first time you walk into the dojo and you can remember the smell like that smell of just like, I'm like, this is where I belong. And you know, then I, what I found out a little while ago, and then I started to like dig into it and they're like, okay. And then Sensei Eric Gifford, who, he looked at me and he went, okay, he's got cerebral palsy. I don't know how much he can do. And you know, I said, well, let's try it. Let's see what happens. But maybe he'll last a little while, maybe he won't. Lo and behold…
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm gonna step on your toes for just a moment cause I just wanna make sure the audience, if they didn't do the math right, so we're talking right about 1990.
Nick Taber:
1990. Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So we had, you know, classes had really opened up for kids at that point.
Nick Taber:
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But it wasn't, I would say as understood as it is today, that for those who might have some challenges, that martial arts can work really well. It was still kind of new territory. Please continue.
Nick Taber:
No, yes, it was definitely new territory there. What are we gonna do? Because a lot of people that I came across at that time, you know, and already within the last year, I was thrown into special needs classes when he doesn't need this, you know, let's get out of here, you know, let's do this. Okay, he can do this. He has a brain, he can do things. But I also had a mom who was very, very, very much like, he's gonna do whatever the heck he wants. And you know, not in a way like, you know, he's gonna do whatever he wants. He's my son, but he's…
Jeremy Lesniak:
She fought for you.
Nick Taber:
He's going to do more. Like, there's a story I tell in a lot of podcasts where there was a teacher's assistant who said, don't expect him to do a lot. He'll get a job, he'll be happy, but don't put too much expectations on him. I was five years old, I wasn't supposed to hear it, but it was one of those like she sent me out in the hallways saying, go, wait, we gotta have a private conversation. And Ms. Mellow was one person, she's like, don't expect. My mom goes, he'll do whatever the hell he damn well wants.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Nick Taber:
I dunno if I could cuss here, can I? Or is…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, yeah. Keep it light, you know?
Nick Taber:
Okay. All right. So yeah, I apologize, but…
Jeremy Lesniak:
No, no, no, that's fine.
Nick Taber:
So, as I went through the martial arts and I know I started out doing it, there were, you know, I had difficulties at times, you know. Let's not sugar coat it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure.
Nick Taber:
I would stand in a fighting stance, but my right arm would go all the way out here.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Nick Taber:
And not knowing what would happen, I'm in tournament upstanding like this. Just wide open and you know, like, hey, let's go fight this. Go. Why do you keep hitting me? Like, why do you keep hitting me? And you know, I sat there and I trained and I would sit in the mirror in my bathroom at home and I would just hold the punches out. Hold my fist out, hold my fist out, and just be aware of it. Where this sort of, and what I would do is I would look in the mirror, it's okay, I need to look like this. I need to you know, I need to make sure my fists are in the right angle. You know, my hands are right, I'm protecting myself and then I would shut my eyes. Where's it gonna go for a while and say, I would do this. I would do this for two hours a day.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Wow. At how old?
Nick Taber:
I was eight years. I was, let's see, I started sparring, I was a yellow belt. I was seven and a half, eight years old, roughly. And just saying like look, I…
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's a long time for a kid to do anything.
Nick Taber:
Yeah. But the thing was, is where I was brought up as like, if it's worth doing. You know, I'm enjoying myself. I'm, you know, I'm with other kids who are doing it, but I also started, you know, now that I know this now, I started to have an inkling like this was the thing I could fall into. You know, and we had a sensei, Sensei Eric Gifford was an ex-Marine. So he was one of those dudes like, you're gonna get up, if you're gonna get up at five o'clock in the morning, you know, do everything you've gotta do, and if you're here, you better be here. You're not gonna play around. It's not a, you know, it's a fun place. It wasn't like he was just a drill sergeant all the time, but you know, he also said, you're gonna learn something. And what I learned from him is just, okay, you get there and you kick, you kick, you kick and kids fell out, you know. They fell out. They didn't wanna do it anymore. I think the statistic I learned when I started getting close to black belts is, 100,000 kids at least at the time. 100,000 children go into martial arts two make black belt.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Everybody's got a version of that statistic. I don't think anybody's is based on actual research. Hmm. People can say what happens in their school. Right. But there's no…
Nick Taber:
Right. At least how I know it's kids who have a disability even, you know, even smaller…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure.
Nick Taber:
Than that. So I'm like, okay, if I'm gonna be the first to get a black belt, and when I was like 11, 12 years old is when I realized I'm like I got something here and I also have a knack for teaching. You know I also have a way to teach it because kids were looking at me and I still have dudes on Facebook who grew up with me going, dude, I tell my kids about you. You know, who were there and they're like, they send like, okay, how's he here? And they go, oh dude, this guy can fight. Like, this guy knows what he's gonna do. Oh man dang! Okay, I gotta pick myself up in order to meet his standards, which I thought were, you know, their standards of me were down here, you know, I'm going up here.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Nick Taber:
You know?
Jeremy Lesniak:
And actually, I wanna ask about that because I'm gonna make a guess here. You know, you're talking about the support staff in the schools, and I would imagine it was more than that one person setting the bar low for you. I'm going to guess that your instructor didn't treat you differently from others. Just said, you have to do this. You have to find a way. You do what you can do. And I'm gonna also guess that tied to the time in the mirror because here you find this aspect of your life where you believe you can do it.
Nick Taber:
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because nobody's telling you otherwise. Cause your mother's telling you you can do it.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Your instructor's telling you can do it and you're determined to figure it out.
Nick Taber:
Yeah. Yeah. And it's just if you're going to if you're, I didn't grow up rich either you know. I had some grandparents who had a lot of money and were able to help out every now and then. You know, and had a very successful business but they didn't dish out money all the time. You know, like, hey, I need this. Okay. Okay. Like, third time they kind of spoiled me. You know, I'm the youngest grandkid by 11 years.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure. Okay.
Nick Taber:
So it all felt to me, but they weren't like, okay. But the aspect was of it, if you're going to be spending money on it, you better make it worth it. You know, you better get every end, you know, my mom and dad would go to work and they would just, okay, I'm gonna earn my paycheck. Get up. You go to work, you do everything. And, you know, you do and order, they got a house. They earned that house. You know, they got, you know, so for me it was, okay, I'm going to be black belts, I'm gonna be black belts. And you know, it's also why it shows to wear the shirt. I'm wearing a Karate Kid shirt today.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Nick Taber:
But I found out locally the first karate kid came out in a local theater the day I was born.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, that's fun.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Love that.
Nick Taber:
And I took that as an omen when I read that, and this was early days of the end, I'm like, okay. Now it's time. Like now, it's time to go full force and see what I can do. And you know, to answer your question about it. Yeah, Sensei Gifford was never a person to change things. The only thing he did do if he changed something, I remember a SI form that he created, and the only thing he did was he just mirrored it. So a left defense became a right defense you know. Just because the form itself, you would attack more with the right hand than the left.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And for those who are listening, I hope you don't mind me pointing this out.
Nick Taber:
Go ahead.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You've got some, there's a difference between your left and right hands. I can see it when you bring your hands up. They don't, they're not equal.
Nick Taber:
Yeah. It's obvious there is. I have cerebral palsy which I had a stroke in the womb when I was born nine and a half weeks early. You know, I lived my life first two months, I was in an incubation chamber that I was there. So, I mean it's, I tell people like you know, when you pull brownies out of the oven and they're a little gooey but they, I came out half cooked. I came out half-cooked. Man, I ain't right dude. But you know, so I'm still sweet now. Still sweet. You know I'm a little lost, but you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hey, you're in good company then.
Nick Taber:
Yeah, I know, right? And it became, with the birth of it, the martial art in the studio, which the studio became Gifford's Academy of Martial Arts, birthed an art called Cha-sin-do. Which is the way of oneself. Loose translation. Be the best self of you can be an elevate it hire. I'm the one that Sensei Gifford, when he retired, gave it to me. So he said, you do it. It's you, you are the only one who embodied every little thing, like all of it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
How old were you when that happened?
Nick Taber:
He's nearly 60 now, so I'm 38, so I was really roughly 27 years old.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's kinda early for an instructor to say, I'm gonna, not that it's early for people to go off and teach, but for someone to just kind of say, here, to grant that to you, to be the, let's call it the heir to the system.
Nick Taber:
Yeah. Well, I was the only one who embodied it, and I was the only one who really just lived in you know, and everybody looked at me in the dojo, and when they first met me, they were like, you know, they had an impression of me first. That wasn't a hundred percent, you know. So what happened was is like, I always tried to push myself, and they'd say, okay, maybe he'll be here for a little while, or he'll go this far. No, he went further, you know, like they challenge the expectations of that. But at the time, it was on my wedding day where he is like it's yours. You know, he had some health problems at the time and, you know, he had wrapped up his school. And he also had children, and he said, you know what, it's enough. I'm done. I'm done. Tired. I'm done. It's yours, you know? And I'm like, whoa! Cool.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You hadn't seen that coming.
Nick Taber:
Funny. Yes, man. Right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You hadn't seen it coming. You weren't expecting that?
Nick Taber:
No. I had planned to have my own version of it and call it Cha-sin-do or, you know, and do something. But I didn't expect to have his blessing. You know, that was, you know, that was that. And I put the tenants together and I added to it. So what I do especially really push this to everyone is the tenants of courtesy, self-control, domino spirit, perseverance, integrity, and I added on honesty and humor.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So the five from Taekwondo that most people associate with Taekwondo.
Nick Taber:
Five from Taekwondo.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Honesty and humor and…
Nick Taber:
Yeah, so that's seven.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Honesty makes a lot of sense.
Nick Taber:
Yes. You know…
Jeremy Lesniak:
I see where you're going there. Some people could lump that under integrity, but you know,
Nick Taber:
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It is a bit separate, but humor…
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Humor is quite different, talk about that. Tell me why that needed to be on the list.
Nick Taber:
It had to be on the list because everything in life, when you have somebody like a generalized samurai, right? Now here's the way I tell, I explain to people, you have an enemy who's coming towards you. Full of hate, full of anger, and ready for the attack. If you are looking at it going like, you really want to go against me for this, and you're deflecting their chi, that they're tossing towards you and you're saying it doesn't bother you. You know, and it's not necessarily saying that you know, you're the person who's gonna get up and knock out a, you know, a knock out an open mic night at the comedy club. That's not what we're looking at. But if you look at it and go, okay, like you're coming at me right now. You have, you know, you have a knife at me and you really think that this is the best idea. It's not really? Nah, nah dude. No. And just by simply being able to deflect that chi, where they got anger and you're at a total zone relaxed mode, you know, and then saying, okay, then while they're striking with their anger and striking there, they want to be able to strike hard, strike fast. You're able to flow and do the Cha-sin-do be like water, you know, flow with that. And the other side of it is, as a martial artist who has gotten this far. What I realize is when people start to know about me, I automatically get that. I get the title of Sensei, but I earn the title of it and it makes me a pillar of the community like that. If you have somebody who can take the situation in front of them seriously, you build that garden, you build everything there, but you're still able to smile, joke, and then not take yourself too seriously. You know, I think of like the Mr. Miyagi line, you know, where'd you get your belt, Mr. Miyagi? JCPenney 3 99. Good deal.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right?
Nick Taber:
You like, it's like, okay, it hits a little harder. It's a funny line in a movie, but it hits a little harder when you think about it. The belt is for keeping your pants up.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Nick Taber:
But the reason why you earned that is all the blood, sweat, and tears and everything else that you poured into it. Yeah. That's all there. I'm gonna do this, but for me, I'm still that fun guy.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Nick Taber:
Yeah. I'm still that guy who's going to be able to get to know me as a human. And I think when you take yourself too seriously, you start losing a lot. You know, but if you take the situation in front of you, seriously, there's an attacker in front of me or something, whether that's a bully, whether that's a horrible boss, or whether that's whoever it may be, whatever it may be. Or you just, you dealt with a loss or something like go with life, but you're still able to do yourself and then move that flow around and still handle it. You take that attacker out, whatever it is.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. Humor has such a place in martial arts, in martial arts training, you know, it's one of my favorite methods of de-escalation. You know someone wants to hurt you, ask them, tell them an knock knock joke. It's gonna be so out of the blue. Right. Is it gonna work every time? No, but nothing works every time.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I'm sure that as you teach now, humor is, kind of important to you, but just the description of your instructor.
Nick Taber:
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Was humor part of his teaching method?
Nick Taber:
Oh my God, yes. Oh my God, yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You've painted a picture of a very strong, very strict person. Yeah. And I think it could be easy for us to forget that humor can still play in there.
Nick Taber:
Yeah. It is. Jeremy. I mean, one thing that sticks out in my mind is there was a kata that he was teaching us. It was the blue belt form, it's called Oh, and you know, number five. And that one of the formations was a down block and an outward block formation you would switch, switch and front kick. Every kid does the exact same thing. You do the wrong block. So switch, switch left front kick, ticks the knuckles. You know, so you need a hand right away. You know and he went to me and I'm like, switch, switch boom and I kick my own knuckles. And he's like, don't kick your knuckles, dude. Don't do that. You know, I'm like okay. Sorry, Sensei. Sir, yes sir! Whoa, whoa, boom! And I do it again.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And you do it again.
Nick Taber:
You silly knucklehead. What are you doing man? Like, you know, and who's doing that? And I laughed and one of the others that will forever stick with me. How long have you been teaching?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I, they put me in front of a class probably at 9 or 10.
Nick Taber:
9 or 10 years old. Wow. So when] you had that opportunity to teach itself, have you ever realized when you're teaching children, anytime they do a running kick, or whatever happens, you're already laughing already, dude? So, you know, they do a running kick with kids. Every kid does the same thing. They shut their eyes when they hit, they do it and run and you know, and he would say Sensei Gifford would say this and he says, what are you doing man? You wanna see everybody, don't you? But, oh no, you got your chi brother. Let's use your chi and see what happens. It's not mortal combat, you know? Or that he would take us down on the mat. So I remember one time there was, I first, first began to teach, I was teaching this chiropractor's child and two real two children, really, really good kids. They were five and eight years old, roughly. I think I'm a little off. Youngest child does this. And we're in this old house and I was teaching in, I taught house to house and you know, I was, it was the way to help pay the student loans off when I was in college.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Nice.
Nick Taber:
We're teaching running sidekicks. We're running there, I'm doing it. Boom, boom, boom. And you know, it's a small room, but we had enough room to get it done, no AC so we're opening up all the windows. Little five-year-old is getting some height like he is getting height and rolling with it, but shutting his eyes. So I'm like, little dude, come on man. You know? So he does this run, he runs, does a sidekick, shuts his eyes, goes straight out the window, and just, and just playback out. It was just, it was like slow motion, just like going back and I see it happening and it's like, it's like a paper. It's like a paper towel commercial. You're like, oh my God. Lands on the grass. It's the first-floor folks. So, I mean, it's not that much. So he lands on the grass and he is there and he opens his eyes, he looks up at us. His older brother near me like freaking out at the moment. He's like, and he is there. He goes, what happened? And we lost it. Like, we absolutely lost it. So, I mean, humor-wise, it was always something to do because that you said it right? It's the balancer, it's the de-escalation, it's the diffuser. And it keeps us who we are. It keeps us as the defender keeps us grounded. We're in that horse dance, we're doing this. And then when people are throwing that heavy tree at us, if something is wrong, we're, Nope. It's, you know, that puts our shield up and our defenses are there.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So I wanna go back. You said you taught house to house. In college or after college.
Nick Taber:
Yes, I did.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That is an unconventional way and I mean maybe I'm imagining things that didn't happen, but I'm imagining you going door to door and knocking the same way that a lot of people roughly our age we're selling Cutco knives, you know? Do you want to see some knives? Do you wanna learn martial arts? Is that what you were doing?
Nick Taber:
No, I got very lucky and I mean, I taught house to house, but I taught privately and I didn't have a lot of money at the time. Matter of fact, I was deep in debt, so I needed…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, college.
Nick Taber:
Yeah, college, yeah. Like I needed to earn money and I needed to pay for books. I needed to pay for food, I needed to pay for fuel. But I wanted to keep the, you know, the overhead as low as I possibly could. You're buying uniforms, buying belts, buying pads, and all that. Like that stuff adds up real fast.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure.
Nick Taber:
And it's not like Amazon where you can get a bundle deal or anything like that. So what you need to do, what I needed to do is I needed to go, like, it was like, I think like a 30-mile trip, 30 40 mile trip every day. But we had to you know, not every day, but it was like every month or so to get supplies, you know, and buy weaponry. But I just met people and they know, they said, hey, can you teach my kids? I'll do two lessons free, see how they like it, see how your house is good. And then it just, it built up. It built up. And I had enough people, I mean, I was able to pay my bills and help sort of, I mean, I was paying for gas at some points, and I mean, there were points where I was able to pay down the balance. A lot and do what I had to do. You know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Most people have not had the experience of teaching in someone else's home. Maybe, you know, you practice on your own. Maybe you have a small training space in your basement and you invite people over. Maybe you're training them formally, maybe you're not. What was different or what is different about going to somebody else's home and teaching them there?
Nick Taber:
Oh, man. The big difference is you don't have control over your environment at all. So, I mean, if you have your own dojo, I mean, lace, it's set up, there's space, you know, the carpet is clean, you know, which is a big deal. And you really have to work around the space that they give if they're, you know, I taught in one house that was projects. You know, and it was a very, very small place. And then they ended up buying a giant sectional and it took up most of it. And I'm like, all right, let's go outside. You know, we're good. And you really gotta be versatile and say, okay, where, what do I do? What do I do? That's a big problem. That's a really big problem. The other thing is, you know, kind of under, you know, control of the environment is, it's, especially with kids, it's really hard to get them. The biggest challenge was getting the focus because their bedroom is right there, you know, their stuff is right there. But no, you're under me now. I am sensei. Yeah. But you're in my house. Like, no, this is like, this is the dojo floor. No, this is my floor.
Jeremy Lesniak:
The power dynamic's a little different.
Nick Taber:
The dynamics are different, and I think like the bigger challenge, it was a challenge, but yet it was a support. When you're teaching kids, the parents can help a lot quicker. They're right there. Yeah. I brought them into my house, you know, I brought them into the house. I can help, you know, I can, you know, they're willing to do it because I met them halfway. At that time, you know, it was the first time gasoline went crazy high. So like, they don't have to travel me, I come to them. You know, and they're like, okay, cool. Like, you know, and there was a big partnership with that. I miss that. But right now I teach out of a gym right now, that, you know, they're gracious enough to loan me space and all I have to do is pay a percentage of my earnings. Which is, you know, which is stupendous, which is great.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. That's a sweetheart deal.
Nick Taber:
Yeah. Yeah. Which is great. And it kind of prepares me for now because like when the pandemic happened, you know, I had 42 students and, you know, and that was February 2020, dude, you know, hey, it's going great, boo.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And then March, you did not have 42 students.
Nick Taber:
I had none. Like, I had none. And then it was, okay, let's see what we can do. Let's go virtual. And, you know, day and age of YouTube and Zoom and even like, how we're doing this just became, okay, what can I do to at least get my message out there?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Nick Taber: But it made me ready for it and I felt pretty good about that.
Jeremy Lesniak: Good. Good. So let's talk about now, let's start to thread some of this stuff together.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Your experienced?
Nick Taber:
I am.
Jeremy Lesniak:
As a person or your experience, you are experienced, but your experience as a person. You know, you're built a little differently.
Nick Taber:
Yes, ma'am.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Than most of us. Doesn't sound like it's stopped you from doing anything you wanted to do.
Nick Taber:
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But it has given you a different relationship to the martial arts and I imagine that has adjusted your philosophy not only for your own training, but the way you teach and your expectations of the students that you have. Would you speak to that?
Nick Taber:
It does change it, but also I understand where they are more than I think others are. I've known a lot of teachers in my life, or like they conform to me. You know, I do this and then I realize they have a very short career. No, they come in, they do my thing, I set this, I do the thing. And if they don't do it, you know, they can leave. I'll get new students. Like, no, that doesn't work that way. And I mean, with the chess and dough is meant to be able to show people what the system is and build their best themselves. You know, build their best selves and improve based on their own standards. Now that doesn't mean if somebody starts as a white belt, you know, cause they improve a little bit. I'm gonna hand over the yellow belt. They have to earn that. But it's, if they, I had, you know, somebody who had very high anxiety. He's on a load of pills and stuff and he had, you know he was told every day, you know what since he was very little just take this medication. It'll bring it down. And the first thing I taught, I teach with everybody is how to properly punch. You know? And he is like, he's 40 years old dude. And he is like, I've never punched before. Like, dude, don't worry. We're gonna go through it. And I spent the hour just simply getting him to throw the fist from the hip to, you know, out, and then do that. Okay, don't lock your elbow, don't do that. He's like, okay. But the problem was he didn't learn this. He has trouble breathing. He's exhausted at the end. He's like, okay. I'm like, okay, breathe in when it's at your hip. Breathe out. Woo. And you know, and then do that. And that took the time to be able to do it. He became awesome, you know, at the end, he got a very big knack. He had some health issues. He's been on pause for about a year, roughly. You know, at the time we're recording this. So, I mean, he'll be coming back, I think. But he started to learn something slowly and reduce his medication.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What I'm hearing though is you met him where he was at.
Nick Taber:
I did.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You, instead of, I need to check the box of teaching you how to punch.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know, for a lot of schools, you know what's class one? It's low block, it's punch, it's front kick, right?
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You weren't, doesn't sound like you were concerned with checking the boxes of what material needed to be covered in that first hour. You were concerned with the person in front of you.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And how with all the tools you had, you could best help him.
Nick Taber:
Yeah, I gotta get 'em in now. I gotta make sure they do that. And one of the guys who I learned from a while back, and you may know this name if I say Shihan Larry Sullivan.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I know the name. I don't know him.
Nick Taber:
Oh, he taught me one thing and he said, you know, before you get them to care about what you're doing, you have to show you care about them. And if you do that, then you're golden. You know, you got something to teach. And one of my buddies who is a, you know, in order to administer taught me the same deal. And he is like dude, you teach those tenants. But you have to show how they, you know, you have to show that, how you live those tenants first. And then where they could fit in, or like where they could improve. Like if you have somebody who, you know, they're coming in, they're kicking, they're punching, they're doing okay, they got the basics down, but they can't, you know, they have trouble breathing, they're asthmatic, or their diet is extremely poor and they're really overweight and they're missing classes and they're constantly late. They're like, you gotta attack their integrity. By really elevating their honesty and say, you know, and I don't mean, you know, putting them down or anything. Sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure.
Nick Taber:
You know, say, okay look, I mean you gotta tell me what's going on. You gotta do that. And if they don't see a road to improvement, they're not gonna do very well. You know, the goal is to, with what I've learned in years of martial arts, is not to necessarily bring out a fighter. But it's to bring out the person when they go into it and how much better they're gonna be in the end. You know, no matter where the end is. I mean, you could have, I've had kids, I had one person who, well, I was like weeks away from, you know, from a black belt ceremony, like inches close. And he had a death in the family, had to get a job, he had to wrap it up. And it was heartbreaking. Like I was impressed for almost a year on his own accord, because he really just, like, he wanted it, like he was really doing it. And, you know, wherever the journey is, it's like you want to see them do better. And I always tell them, I don't want you to be able to go toe to toe with me. You know, to be able to be a version of myself in you. I want you to be better, a better version of yourself than even I thought you could. You know, and I tell the story of like what my own personal belief is. And it's not to get too religious, but I believe like, you know, we're all built and we're on this earth for a reason. So when you die, you go to heaven and you sit down with God being the universe or whatever. They look at a chart, they look at everything, you know, okay, I built you to do X, Y, Z. Wherever it is. They do that. Wait a minute. You did. They're looking at, they go, wait. You did that? Yeah. You did that here, but you did all this too. Billy
Jeremy Lesniak:
In accounting, essentially.
Nick Taber:
I thought you wanted to, you know, you outdid that. And if I can get somebody to outgrow themselves and be a better, like Ben, you know, it's a checkoff for me. In my own head, but it's a checkoff for them because they improve themselves and that's what the system of Cha-Sin-do is built to do.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay. Wow.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Why one-on-one teaching, or why private instruction and not group instruction? Because one could make the argument that you could potentially reach more people at the same time.
Nick Taber:
Yes. Grouping instruction is a very good thing. As of right now with the ebbs and flows of life, you know, sometimes it's just, it just doesn't happen. You know, it's just, that's it, you know, it just doesn't happen. But with the people who I've come across right now, at least in the past 10 years, have really just benefited from that. And then we just, you know, we proceed with it and then build up from there.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure.
Nick Taber:
You know, and build up from there. I mean, I have nothing against group instruction. I've done group instruction, I've done one-on-one. It's just the way things have gravitated.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay.
Nick Taber:
Yeah. And that's all.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Make sense. Yeah. One of the things that I love about martial arts is that
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's presented in so many different ways by so many different people, and that creates a lot of opportunity for people to find a way that works for them. I'm sure a lot of your students wouldn't succeed.
Nick Taber:
No.
Jeremy Lesniak:
In a group setting.
Nick Taber:
No.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And there are others who do succeed in a group setting that might not do one-on-one.
Nick Taber:
No.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And so the beauty is that both are available. There's more and more people are starting to teach the way that you are teaching.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There are a lot of advantages there.
Nick Taber:
I agree with you. And I mean, it really is, as we said, you know, building up to and building the right person. You know, building up for what they need to do. They got into it for a reason, whether it's something to do or, you know, their dad put them into it, you know, or their mom or dad or whoever put them, you know, put them up to it. You know, I mean, one of the greatest things I ever, ever, ever got to do is, when my goddaughter, called me and said, can I learn from you? And I'm like, whoa. Like, you know now. And I told her dad, and he is like, yeah, you know, we can do this. This will be a good thing and this will be fun. And you know, I started to teach her and you know, I had tears in my eyes, like, how long have you been preparing for this? I said the second she was born.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I love it.
Nick Taber:
The second she was born. I wanted to do this. And like, you know, I have like the great memories of that. And I mean, like, you know, like children, they ebb and flow. But you know, she got involved in a few other things. So she went on pause for a little bit, but like is itching to come back. And you know, the family has some financial problems right now. So they're like, okay, we wanna come back. We wanna do more. Let's do this. I'm like, let's go. Like, let's go.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You're ready. You're ready.
Nick Taber:
Let's go. Let's go. But yeah, man. And I think, back to the point of it, like I really aim for it and I really, really, really hope. You know, I sometimes, you know, when you meet somebody who's been teaching, especially who's been teaching quite a while, there's one, there's a Kenpo school in the town next door from where I am, USA Karate. You know, it was run by a great guy, Sensei Chan, and he like, just rocks it, like everything. He's been doing it. But every time I meet up with him, I'm like, hey, old dog, how you doing? You know, like, yeah, it's a good old dog. How you doing, man? I'm good. Like, you know, and then they kind of feel like, it's like, wow. I'm like, dude, like, you know, we've been in the business and I'm like, dude, I've been in the business 30 plus years.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Nick Taber:
And you say that and you think of all that's happened since the Ninja Turtles, to now, and you know, everybody asked me the one question is like, Daniel La Russo or Johnny Lawrence, where do you sit? And I'm like, dude, I can see both. I could see both, but man, I'm like Johnny Lawrence right now, dude. Like, oh yeah man, come on, you're popping out. I'm like, no, no, dude. You know, like, you could kind of see both.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I agree. When you're a kid, it's pretty, you know, when you have a very black-and-white view of the world.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's one movie, but when you're an adult, you watch that movie again.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You're willing to watch with an open mind. You can see it's a lot more gray.
Nick Taber:
Oh yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I think that's why it stood up as long as it has.
Nick Taber:
Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh, dude. Especially now, even with Cobra Kai.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right. Now we were talking before we started recording.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You're a podcaster as well.
Nick Taber:
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Which is probably why you're so comfortable and why your audio sounds good.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know, not everybody who comes on has great gear or anything, but, you know, how'd you get into that?
Nick Taber:
Okay. So I was invited onto a podcast with a friend of mine called The Blockbuster Dropout Show, and Blockbuster Dropouts was just, was two guys, two brothers, and a couple of friends who were former Blockbuster employees. That's okay. Let's just talk and, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I was a Blockbuster employee and I can't get my employee number out of my head.
Nick Taber:
Really?
Jeremy Lesniak:
From 20 years, it won't leave. 29520747299.
Nick Taber:
Whoa. What? Wow. Wow. Man.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I want it gone. Anybody out there has advice for how to get that out so I can put something else in? Let me know.
Nick Taber:
I can still over my junior high school year, my junior high school gym locker combination after all these.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, so there's there's no need for that.
Nick Taber:
There's nothing for it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Nick Taber:
But why I can remember 264, 414? Like why that, why, like why could that happen? Was it the scene of my first, one of my first fight? Probably, I know, I can't remember, but it was something I, yeah. As a podcaster. So I got invited to it, and I was started to review movies, and we just started chatting like, and you know, I was just super comfortable talking and just kind of enjoying myself and the owner of the studio was there and he said, you know, Hey dude, you could probably do one yourself. And my grandmother, who we lost last year. That's quite, she made it to 96 years old, bro. Like
Jeremy Lesniak:
Wow. That's awesome.
Nick Taber:
She lived…
Jeremy Lesniak:
You could all be so lucky.
Nick Taber:
Yeah, right. She lived a very, very good life. And you know, she told me, she's like, ah, you know, like, I'm like, maybe I can do this. And she's like, go for it. Don't do it any way but go ahead. Like and she reminded and remember this you know, as I always tell the story, she's like, oh, you know, talk about old movies. Don't talk about the movies, the crap that's out right now. I'm like, all right. You know, I'm like, okay, I can do that. And we started to do Movie Theater Time Machine which is my, one of the first podcasts. And, you know, she was listening. She liked it. But you know, when I say talk about the good movies, and she said, you've done so many things in your life. You are the first person in Massachusetts to make black belt with a disability. You hold the record for breaking Cement in Massachusetts. You know, I've nine inches of cement with a Palm Hill.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Wow.
Nick Taber:
Done it once, you know, just done it once. Probably never do it again, you know? But you know, it's done. But, you know, and other things like you've done so much, like why not try it? Like, what's it gonna hurt? And I fell in love with the idea, you know, of just, hey, I can do something. We could edit a podcast and a show together, get it out there. And you know, the birth that became, then it came real talk with Sensei Nick, and it was a couple of students that asked me, why don't you do a show like an old friend who said, you know, dude, you were it was a friend of mine who was on one of my episodes. We talked about the tenant of honesty when I started to formulate it. Buddy Adam of mine, and he's like, you know, growing up, dude, you were this, this, this figure. Like you were and you know I put myself on a pedestal a little bit when I'm saying that, but I really don't, I just wanna clarify that. It's like you always knew what you wanted to do. You always put yourself in a good position. It's like, you've gotta tell your story because people are gonna want to know about it. And I went, you know what? Yeah, you're right. Like you're right. And that became the birth of it and became, you know, the bonsai tree obsession and you know, which birthed from that, I have one actually right here.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, nice.
Nick Taber:
I just tried to try.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh yeah, I see it though.
Nick Taber:
But you know, the show that is like, you pretty, you do that. Like they need to see those, they need to, like, even if you do like a 10-minute episode, you know, you do it Monday through Friday, they wake up in the morning, they hear that episode, they get pumped up. And I'm like, dude, that's a good idea. And you know…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Totally.
Nick Taber:
Him knowing me always said something. He is like, I bet you can't do it. And I'm like, okay, it's like it got that little switch in my heart with like Marty McFly and back to the future, nobody calls me chicken.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Nick Taber:
Like I bet you can't do it. I'm like, okay. That's why I became black belt. That's why because people thought I couldn't do it. And people, you know, determination is, okay, I'll do this, you know? And with real talk, I mean, we do about 10 to 15 episodes a year. You know, they come out, it's, you know, shorter space, seasons, Movie Theater Time Machine we've done all the time. And the other one, Powering Past Abilities. I got in, you know, involved with a friend of mine and he's wheelchair bound, but he started working in judo and he asked me, he is like, dude, maybe we can just turn the camera on, go live, and just talk and maybe that'll help. I'm like, All right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Cool.
Nick Taber:
You know, let's do it. And, you know, then that all became you know, it's just something to, you know, I guess it's kind of like, you know, the same way of why I started in the martial arts in the first place. You know, thinking of like, hey, you know, my God, I gotta do Ninja Turtles, I gotta do that, you know? And then, you know, it just became, you know what, I'm gonna try and do it and just be good. You know, and just try to be good and do better. Because my inner, like everything with the martial arts, like you pick up something and it affects it. You're like any sport, it bleeds into everything. You know, like if you get into the ring with somebody who is two belts above you and twice your size and is looking down on you with that real big death grip. And I'm just remembering when I put myself in that stance, you know, for two hours, just remember, okay let's do it. Okay, good, good, good. But then going, okay, you know what, this is kinda like a movie. Like this is kinda like a movie or this is something. And you know, even though I tell myself when you're like, you do a hard thing every day. Like, okay, ooh, man, I, like a way that it does bleed into it. It's like if you gotta do the dishes like nobody likes doing dishes. No. In general, nobody likes doing that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I know a couple weirdos, but your point is taken. I don't like doing dishes.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't even like using the dishwasher.
Nick Taber:
No, nobody likes doing dishes or something. I had a job as a dishwasher when I was in high school. I mean, it's still one of those, like, I don't wanna do this. I need to do more. I need to do this. I need to do something else. You know? But it's I make that point because nobody wants to do it. However, nobody wants to get punched in the face. So what do you learn? What do you learn first? You don't wanna get punched in the face. You learn how to block. You learn how to dodge. You learn how to get it, but you learn how to counter as well. So like, you get that thought in your head, oh God, I gotta go dishes. Ah. Like, you know, like, what the heck? Okay. So counter the thought. Do that. What's the attack? You get those things done. Turn on the water, getting the soap, get going. Okay, good. You know, get it outta the way and get it out of the way, you know, and get it outta the way. And then enjoy the good stuff later.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Nick Taber:
You know and get that done. And I mean, that's back to another point, like that's why with humor. Comes into place is, one of the lesson I teach is eating the beets is what I always call it. So like a little kid, nobody likes to eat the vegetables. Eat the meat, eat the potatoes. Okay. The veggies, like, how do I have to, do I do that? No. Eat the beets first and eat those. Get the hard stuff out of the way and enjoy the garden later. Enjoy everything else later on. Cuz it teaches you, and I mean, as a lesson for that, it's like, okay, you're gonna have people coming at you in life or people who just don't like you or people who wanna be able to get your job or people who want to do other things. But you've had people coming at you already, you know, are people coming at you there? It's okay. So what do I do mentally? Just block that out, counter that. Go do something and do my own thing. Be the best self I can be. And when you're your best self, and when you do, that's when you reach peak. And when you reach peak, that's when, okay, you don't do this. Okay. Maybe you don't have a black belt around your waist, but kind of feel that way. Yeah. You feel that way. Cause it affects all the physical and mental, emotional, spiritual, and maybe it's not the physical step, but all the other things. And whether you're a salesperson or whether you're trying to do that, and then you, those principles apply everywhere. Don't you find that to be true?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right. Absolutely. Completely agree. How can people find those shows? Or how can people find any of this stuff for you? Let's get it all out there for folks.
Nick Taber:
Okay. So you can find me the best one is on Instagram. You can use Nick Taber Fitness right now. That's the best way I have. I'm working on a new website that's gonna have everything. I'm also a personal licensed personal trainer as well, so I utilize both worlds. New website. I'm coming up with taberfitness.com, that's gonna have all those links and everything. Real talk with Sensei Nick is on every podcast platform, so just look it up. Just look it up and you could find me. But the best one right now is Instagram Nick Tabor Fitness. You could find me and, you know, dm me, talk, chat or whatever you'd wanna do.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Awesome.
Nick Taber:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm so glad you came on. I've had lot fun talking to you.
Nick Taber:
I am really, really glad to be here too, man.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. This is great. And so this is where you get to close up. How do you wanna leave it? What words do you want to give to the audience today?
Nick Taber:
I just want to say thank you to Jeremy and Andrew for inviting me. This is really good. I think I wanna say thank you to Sensei Eric Gifford for believing in me. I get choked up a little bit, but he believed in me first when no one else would and taught me how to believe in myself, thanks to my mom and dad who didn't let me sit down and just say no. Like, you know, and just say, no, you're not gonna do this. You're not gonna get hung up. And I wanna say thank you to Miss Mellow who didn't believe in me at first when I was five years old. And for anyone who would come up to me and wanna learn. And if you ever get into the martial arts I just wanna say, give it a chance. You know, give it a chance because like anything in life, if you are better than you were when you walked into it, the better you're gonna be in the long run. And that's coming from a long old dog sensei like me, man. You know, like me, it's really the best thing in the world. And also, it's not what it is in the movies. You can't do it in a four-month crash course, bro. Like, it's gonna take time, but you'll get there. And I just wanna plug myself again, Nick Taber Fitness Instagram. I'm happy to be here and DM me whatever questions you have. You could find me on Facebook, Nick Anthony Taber. I'll be happy to join you virtually wherever and thank you very much for having me now.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So now that you've watched or listened to this episode, my intro probably makes a little more sense. The idea that I wasn't quite sure how to set this up because Nick was awesome and we went in so many different directions. But the powerful elements of his story are the ones where he said things, where he talked about his experiences where for me, talking about finding someone in training that believed in him and how that changed everything. And I think we've all been on the downside of someone not being, not believing in us. And I think we've all had someone come after that, that did believe us in us and how powerful that can be. And I'm just thankful that I got to talk to him Sensei Nick, thanks for coming on. Had a lot of fun and look forward to coming on your show. That'll be a good time too. Hey audience, you love what we do. Help us out. Buy something, share something. Tell people about something, leave a review on something, join the Patreon, or here are two other things you can consider doing. You can bring me out for a seminar. I love doing seminars and how do you get started that? Email me jeremy@whistlekick.com. You know what else you can do? If you email me, we can talk about me helping your martial arts school. I offer consulting. We at whistlekick offer consulting. We take the same team that does a lot of the great stuff for us here and we just jump in and grow your school, students, revenue, profit, culture. What is your school missing to be the best martial arts school you could ever imagine? Let's help you get there. We could help you and far more affordably than you may realize. So let's have a conversation with no obligation. Once again, my email address, jeremy@whistlekick.com. Our social media, everywhere you can think of is @whistlekick. We've got a great newsletter you can sign up for at pretty much any of our websites. And I think that, yeah, that takes us to the end. Until next time, train hard, smile, and have a great day.