Episode 785 - Martial Arts Should Be Fun
In this episode, Andrew and Jeremy talk about why Martial Arts Should Be Fun.
Martial Arts Should Be Fun - Episode 785
If you’re not having fun don’t do it, as Andrew always says. Martial Arts training should be educational and entertaining but there are instructors or schools that don’t believe in the latter. In this episode, Andrew and Jeremy talk about why Martial Arts Should Be Fun. Listen to learn more!
After listening to the episode, it would be exciting for us to know your thoughts about it. Don’t forget to drop them in the comment section down below!
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, and on today's episode with Andrew and I are tackling the subject martial arts should be fun including classes. Classes should be fun. Yeah. All right. Stick around. We're gonna have some fun talking about the fun that you should be having while you're having fun training. Yeah. If you're new to the show, welcome. My name's Jeremy Lesniak. I'm your host here, co-host Andrew Adams. Andrew, how are you?
Andrew Adams:
I'm great as I am most days.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You usually are great.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And anyone who knows, Andrew might expect his common refrain. Andrew, how are you?
Andrew Adams:
I'm great.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because?
Andrew Adams:
Oh, I woke up handsome today.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Andrew Adams:
That's right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If you're new to what we do here at whistlekick, go to whistlekick.com. You're gonna find all the things that we do there. Our store links to all the different projects, products, services. Most of what we do, the best stuff we do is free. And then if you want to go deeper, we do have plenty of paid options available. And you can use the code podcast15 to save 15% on just about all of those paid options. Now this show, Martial Arts Radio, we've been around, how long have we been doing this? Eight years. We're in our eighth year, as ridiculous as that may seem and we are frequently lauded as the tough, traditional martial arts podcast in the world which is kind of cool. I think that's the first time I've ever said that on the air, and it's a little uncomfortable. But one of my resolutions for 2023 is to be, not resolution, but I'm trying to be a little more accepting of the hard work that the team puts in and just say, you know what, let's own it. We're doing great. If you wanna go deeper on this or other episodes, you can go to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com and sign up for the newsletter. You could tip us, you can search by transcript of the episodes. What was that episode that somebody said that thing? It's all over there. Okay. What else do we do? Well, there's a ton of stuff that we do, and if you wanna show your support for our mission to connect, educate, and entertain, I dunno, there's a key part for today's episode, you can do so in a lot of ways. You could maybe tell somebody about this episode. Do you know someone that thinks martial arts should be boring and effective 100% of the time? You should send them this episode. And then when they complain, you should send me their feedback and then I will tell them that they're silly, okay? You could also make a purchase and you might consider joining our Patreon. We were talking on first cup patreon.com/whistlekick. We're talking on first cup this morning cause yes, we have a martial arts morning show as well where I was mentioning that yesterday, Andrew confirmed one of the most long-standing high-profile guests we have ever tried to get on the show. It's been so many years. We've been trying to do this. I tried to do this. Your predecessor tried to do this. You've been trying continuously since you came into this position and you made it happen. Now, if you wanna know who that name is, there's only one way to find out. You are Andrew or Jeremy. You support the Patreon and even at the lowest tier, the $2 a month tier, we tell you who's coming up on the show.
Andrew Adams:
I will also say there is another way. If you wanna give, if you wanna send me $150, I'll tell you who it is.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think that's reasonable. If somebody wants to pay...
Andrew Adams:
Jeremy, I'll split it with you, don't worry.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay, perfect. If someone would rather spend $150 than $2, then fine. I'm okay with that. All right. Now our biggest fans know that in support of whistlekick, you can check all the things that we do at the family page, whistlekick.com/family. If you've been listening for a while, watching for a while, if you come to our events, if you really value what we do, you probably are family. Maybe not the biological definition of family, but we are a family and we do support each other. And we appreciate the support of all of our extended families shows us, whether it's Patreon or reviews or any of the other things you can find at that whistlekick.com/family. All right, Andrew.
Andrew Adams:
Fun!
Jeremy Lesniak:
Fun! So before we go too far in this general statement and the first version of this episode title was martial arts classes should be educational and entertaining. And of course, we shortened it up. But that statement, especially if we emphasize the and suggests something that I think is pretty important that we start with. Martial arts classes should be educational. Nobody's gonna argue that I think.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And entertaining. And that's where the, maybe controversy is too strong of a word, but that's where the discussion really happens, isn't it?
Andrew Adams:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Why is it that some people think martial arts shouldn't be fun?
Andrew Adams:
I don't know. I'm gonna be honest. I don't know because it, to me, it's very foreign to have something that we do because with rare exceptions, most of us, I would garner to say that the majority of the people listening to this podcast or watching on YouTube are not full-time martial arts instructors make their living from martial arts. Most of you listening or watching...
Jeremy Lesniak:
Statistically, this is true.
Andrew Adams:
...are casual, and I don't mean that in a derogatory way.
Jeremy Lesniak:
No, no.
Andrew Adams:
Martial artist, right?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Andrew Adams:
So for you, majority of us, it's a hobby, right? It's something we do because we enjoy it, right?
Jeremy Lesniak:
It is part of our lifestyle. It is not our profession.
Andrew Adams:
Correct. Correct. And if something isn't fun, and I say this all the time, if it's not fun, don't do it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Andrew Adams:
Now that doesn't mean that fun is exclusive to not being anything else, right? I use expression all the time that I am grown up, but I'm not a grownup. I can be childlike.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Am I allowed to say that?
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, sure. Like I'm childlike...
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm being self-deprecating.
Andrew Adams:
I'm not child-ish, you know. Like I can still be...
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think you missed my joke.
Andrew Adams:
Perhaps, perhaps. No, no.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm short.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, it's true. You are not grown up. You're right. You're right. But I don't think that it has to be one thing or the other.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Andrew Adams:
I think it can be both.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, I've got a theory of where that comes from.
Andrew Adams:
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak:
School. How many people enjoyed school? Not because they enjoyed learning, but because it was fun. From what I recall of school, kindergarten was fun, first grade was a little less fun, second grade, third, and the fun decreased. And it continued to decrease and then I got to college and I think it leveled off. Actually, it probably went up a little bit cause I had some classes that were really enjoyable.
Andrew Adams:
Some say.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But in the West, we are and I say I make that distinction cause I can't speak to, you know, educational systems outside of that, but my understanding of Western public education is we generally, strong arm subjects down people's throats. We tell them what they have to learn and we do so in a way that is less enjoyable and cause we're gonna get to this, I'll plant the seed now, less effective, right? And so I think a lot of us come away from that saying well, the best way to learn stuff is to just have it drilled into your brain over and over again with memorization and regurgitation and that's boring. And there are martial arts schools that do that. That, okay, you come in, we're gonna drill, drill, drill, drill, drill, drill, drill, memorize, memorize, memorize, go home and practice, practice, practice. There's your homework. And then come back in for the test.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It follows that Prussian educational model if anybody has dabbled in that history. And it is essentially, this word may be triggering to people, but it's still the best word I know, it's an indoctrination system. And if we think back to, cause we've had folks on who trained back in the sixties, I don't know. Actually, I think the only person I know that we've had that may have trained in the’50s was Jhoon Rhee. Did he train in the '50s?
Andrew Adams:
Probably, yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think he did. So he might be the only person we've had on the show so we can go back at least that far. And when we talk about martial arts training, it followed a very militarized drill, drill, drill memorize, regurgitate test sort of philosophy through some of those early years. And then it sounds like it got fun in the '60s cause there was a lot of cross-trainings. People were like, oh, you do this, you do this.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right? And then that started to get pulled away through the '70s, '80s, and '90s and then we're seeing it become fun again. Now that doesn't mean that martial arts training couldn't or wasn't fun in the '70s, '80s, and '90s. But when I think about, I mean, you trained back then, when I think about most of my training in a lot of the schools that I went to, the focus was on the drill and the repetition.
Andrew Adams:
Yep. And the learning.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And supposedly the learning, right? The push was learning and I was very fortunate in the school that I went to because it was, and again, a little more foreshadowing not only was it a wonderful education, but it was often quite fun. But here we are now and the world's a little bit different. And back then people would stick around training if it was educational and fun, and now people want fun in education.
Andrew Adams:
Hmm. That's an interesting distinction. Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So when we consider that, does that make sense? Do you think that's why so many people would look at a class and say, well, that's just fun? Like, that's just, those are just games.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Have you ever tried to teach a class of adults a game and they start to dismiss it as if it's useless?
Andrew Adams:
Oh, absolutely! And on the reverse side, I've had parents who are critical of and I'm gonna put this in air quotes for those listening, games that we play in the kids' class.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Andrew Adams:
Like I brought my kid to karate class to learn karate, not to learn games. And they don't understand that even though it's a game, the kid is still learning something. Like your kid can't skip. Like there are kids these days, and this is, I'm not exaggerating, there are kids who have grown up, who are in the fifth grade who I'm like, all right, we're gonna skip around the room. They don't know how to skip. Your child doesn't know how to do a jumping jack. They're trying to figure out how their arms and legs work.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. Well, let's just skip over all that and teach them how to be lethal.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Cause that works.
Andrew Adams:
But the answer to your question is yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Andrew Adams:
I've had adults that I'm trying to teach games to that are like, you know, whatever.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So let's unpack fun. Let's talk about the purpose of fun and why both, and I know we're unified in this cause you know. For the audience, if you don't know, Andrew and I collaborate on a number of things, you know. All in weekend and free training day Northeast. And so we spend a lot of time talking about culture and fun and how to present information, et cetera. What role, cause you teach martial arts, you teach drumming. I've taught martial arts, I've taught gymnastics. I've taught parkour. I've taught weightlifting, body belt, CrossFit, you know, that sort of realm. So between the two of us, we've taught a bunch of different things to adults and children. Let's start with the simplest possible question. In your experience, do people learn better in all the ways that you could say, learn, understand, engage, retain...
Andrew Adams:
Comprehend.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Implement. Do they learn better when things are fun?
Andrew Adams:
Unequivocally, absolutely yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Do you have any, if you would say, put a number on it, zero to a hundred percent confidence that people learn better, they do those things better when things are fun, what percentage do you give it?
Andrew Adams:
Oh, a hundred percent.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yes, 100%. Anybody who has ever taught, if you disagree with this, I would love to have some understanding why because I have taught over the years, thousands of people different things, and I can say point blank that the more fun I make it, the better they do.
Andrew Adams:
Yep, absolutely. Without a doubt.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And why? I mean, we kind of tackled why some people don't want fun. Ugh. That's a weird saying but some people don't want fun. They don't want their kids to have fun. They don't want to go to class to have fun because they think that you can't be fun and serious. You can't have serious fun. And there's a phrase, and I know we've had it multiple times on the show, and I wish I had like an identical memory so I could tell you the episode number, but we've had people come on the show and talk about serious fun.
Andrew Adams:
Steven Watson was one.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Ah, see? Good. This is why I like having you. And if you know Steven Watson, that's a perfect way to describe that man. He has serious fun in everything he does.
Andrew Adams:
And there are people who, for whatever reason, don't want fun. They just want serious. A perfect example would be the dad from the Sound of Music.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hmm. I haven't watched that movie in so long.
Andrew Adams:
Right? He was very militant and all he wanted was not allowed to have fun. No singing, no dancing, none of this.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Andrew Adams:
And when the children were introduced to those things, they learned so much more.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right. Have we made a strong enough case at this point that things should be fun? You know, not necessarily how you get there, but they should be.
Andrew Adams:
Right. Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Are there times in a class where fun gets outta control and you gotta pull the reins back? Yes.
Andrew Adams:
Sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Happens all the time. All right, you guys are being a little silly. Let's pull it back. There's a range of fun that matters, right? If it's too much fun, it excludes education. If it's not enough fun, it's just boring and it excludes education. Cause remember you can't make someone learn. You can teach them, but you cannot make them learn. Learning is to some degree, a choice. And the more engaged they are, the more practice they have, et cetera, the more they're going to learn. And so we, this is something that we need to remember. How then do we balance that? How do we know where the lines are?
Andrew Adams:
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let's start there and then how do we connect? Go!
Andrew Adams:
Back a little bit.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Ok.
Andrew Adams:
Like, before we talk about how to get there, let's talk about why there are classes that aren't that way. And this will be a short sidebar, but I think it's because instructors have not learned how to teach in a fun way. It's not that they don't want fun per se, but they have grown up in a culture that doesn't have that there, and so they are unaware of how to make that be something in their own classes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Most of us, when we become martial arts instructors, we model what was presented to us as martial arts. Just as most of us end up at some point as an adult looking around going, I am way more like my parents than I ever expected to be, right? Down to the wood panel. We mimic what we're shown. And so if we have instructors who know how to incorporate fun, we're probably gonna incorporate some fun. But if we grew up in a more regimented, perhaps militant martial arts upbringing has a lot, most of us trace our martial arts history back to someone who served in the military. So it is not uncommon that that's what we start from at some point, and maybe some people made some changes. But we also need to remember that, I'm sorry to say, most martial arts instructors do not progress far as instructors. Where they start and where they end when they stop teaching, usually are not that far off. And as a side note, that's why we've launched our teacher training and certification division. That's why we have that, because we want people to become better instructors. It doesn't require tremendous amount of time and effort. But just recognizing that, that you can have fun. And guess what, most of that class is structured around games.
Andrew Adams:
Yep, yep. Absolutely.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because it's how people learn. Okay. So kind of lost my train of thought.
Andrew Adams:
How to bring it into your class?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay. So if we're, well, you know what, let's, before we do there, the edges. Too much fun, not enough fun. How to recognize that? I wanna get there first.
Andrew Adams:
Sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And then we can talk about the middle of the bell curve. What's it look like if you're teaching and people are having too much fun?
Andrew Adams:
Well, typically, I mean, I'm thinking these typically occur in classes of kids generally. Because adults have a hard time not being serious. But when you are no longer able to keep the children's attention focused on you, and it's focused on other stuff, that's when it's too much.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. If you can make what you're presenting fun and that the words and actions coming from you will continue the fun you will have everyone's attention.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If the fun grows so much that they're able to have fun without it, now the fun becomes crosstalk among the students, that's when you lose control.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, because you're focused on something else other than.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right, right. If it happens in the adult class, it's the same thing. Adults will do the same thing, but it's more that their fun becomes conversation.
Andrew Adams:
Correct.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That as we let the reins out, that as we give them some more freedom to self-determine what they're doing back and forth with their individuals, or usually for me it's small groups, then they're not hearing your words. Especially if it's a big class or a loud class.
Andrew Adams:
Right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What about the other end? How do we know there isn't enough fun?
Andrew Adams:
Surprisingly, at least in an adult class, it can be the exact same thing.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I was thinking that too. Yeah. If your adult class is not paying attention to you because what you are presenting is so boring.
Andrew Adams:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And this is why so many schools rely on new material to keep retention.
Andrew Adams:
Mm. I hadn't done that. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because new material even presented boring is still new material and that will keep a certain personality type engaged.
Andrew Adams:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But the true test is, can I teach you [00:20:00] Changi, Heian, Pinan, Shodan, Taikyoku, Shodan for the 5000th time and have you engaged?
Andrew Adams:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right? And for those of you who don't practice Korean or Japanese systems, you know, your first form, low block punch. I know I'm not being entertaining enough. I'm not conveying enough fun or holding enough space with fun when people are looking around. When they're looking at the clock.
Andrew Adams:
Correct.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When they're looking at their feet. When I don't have their attention because literally, I am so boring that they don't need to exert any energy to consume what I am giving to them.
Andrew Adams:
Yep. Yep. Absolutely.
Jeremy Lesniak:
This is where, when folks get awfully long-winded in an explanation that they try to explain too thoroughly which generally goes over people's heads. All right, let's take this form and let's break it down step by step. All right. Step out to the left. Low block. All right. You want your knee over your toes and you're this, and your back leg. And your this and your eyes should be here and your shoulders and your so much information. And this reminds me of the time...
Andrew Adams:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And everybody's going, oh my God, how much more time is this? This is our first move. We're gonna do the whole form like this? Usually, you get eight moves in because it takes that long. And you're looking at the clock as much as possible or maybe you have a friend in class and you're making eye contact with them and they're making eye contact with you and you're like, oh my, this is not ok. This is boring.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm not getting anything out of this.
Andrew Adams:
No. Nope. And when I'm in class, the only time I want students to be like jumping their eyes to the clock is when they're sparring me and they're hoping it's over soon. That's it. It's the only time.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Or maybe you're doing some conditioning exercises like, all right, everybody hanging horse stands. Right? Like that, it's, yeah. There's a time when even if it, you're making class enjoyable, that's a common and even appropriate response. Now, are we saying that things should not be slow and methodical and that we shouldn't explain things?
Andrew Adams:
No, you have to be smart about it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There's a balance, right? There's an effective dose. There's too little and there's too much.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah. Right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Here's a hint. It's not the same every class. It's not the same beginning to end of class. It's something that in, go ahead.
Andrew Adams:
It's not the same even if you have the same students, the exact same students in class, it's gonna be different one week from the next. Even with the exact same students.
Jeremy Lesniak:
This is where reading energy, and I don't mean like you know, Reiki or as sort of stuff. Yeah, not necessarily at that level though if you do have that kind of skill, you're even better at it. But just the recognition of where people's energy is at. Are they up, are they low? If they're low, you have to bring 'em up. If they're up, you just have to keep 'em there. If they're too high, you gotta bring 'em down. And being able to work that energy through what you say, how you say it, the drills you do, your body language, et cetera. Right? If you've ever seen me teach , I know you've seen me teach, my voice is usually a little hoarse at the end. Because I like to have a very high energy level with this people that I work with. If someone is new to this concept, if someone says, okay, I'm with you, I understand it intellectually, but I don't know what it looks like. How can we get them to kind of practice incorporating fun? Does it mean you necessarily do games for an hour every class?
Andrew Adams:
I mean, no, it doesn't have to.
Jeremy Lesniak:
No, no. It could be, but probably not.
Andrew Adams:
And I would say depending on the students you have in class. If I'm teaching a three to five-year-old martial arts class, I'll tell you right now, it's probably gonna be games 99% of the class.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What makes something a game?
Andrew Adams:
Oh, that's a good question. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Consequence.
Andrew Adams:
Consequence. Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's really all it has to be. So if we go back to that example of, all right, we are gonna do move by move, step out, low block, left the game version of that? The first person to not be perfect in what they're doing has X consequence.
Andrew Adams:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And it could be as simple as, or it could be, if you're not perfect, I'm gonna tap you on the shoulder and you're gonna go stand on the side and you're gonna watch everybody else.
Andrew Adams:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Who can get to the end of the form looking like super good, right?
Andrew Adams:
Or you could do the whole thing as Sensei says as well.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There are so many ways you can do that. It becomes consequence. The consequences don't have to be extreme.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It just connects an effort with an outcome, right? One of the very best things about martial arts is that that doesn't inherently exist. With the exception of freeform partner movement, where if I'm doing a poor job, I'm getting punched in the face.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But that's not how most of us model the majority of our classes. So just tacking on a consequence can make things more fun, quote, fun for people. How else can we make things fun?
Andrew Adams:
I mean, you can actually bring in games and play physical games.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. Yeah. You, you mentioned, Sensei says, Senpai says, Shubham says. Some people just call it Simon says, Simon call. I'm sure we'd call it just Simon says, probably Simon. How do you know if it's fun? I've got a really easy standard for this. I'm curious if you have one.
Andrew Adams:
How do you know if it's fun? I mean, the kids are all engaged and enjoying it. I determine often what game I'm gonna play when the kids are like, can we play this today? Like obviously that was fun for them.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. Here's mine if I'm having fun. Because it's very rare that I'm having fun and they're not. In fact, I would say as the instructor, it's easier for them to have fun than for me to have. Because I've got so much more I've gotta worry about. They have to worry about them as individuals. I have to worry about all of them as a group and as individuals and their energy level and time, and who has some compromised movement. Who's, you know, high rank, who's low rank, what have they worked on? What are the goals I'm trying to get out of this class? So if I can get through all that, if I can check all those boxes and enjoy my time, it's incredibly rare they're not having fun. And guess what? That means sometimes I'm selfish and I do stuff that I find more enjoyable than others.
Andrew Adams:
I do that with the sword game.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What's the sword game?
Andrew Adams:
Oh man, do I have it? Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Have we done an episode just on different games?
Andrew Adams:
No.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We need to do that.
Andrew Adams:
You know what? We could not talk about this sword game right now and we can record that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know what? Let's do that. In fact, I'm thinking of a few people and I bet you are too. And you know what? We could bring them on for segments.
Andrew Adams:
Alright.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You've got five minutes to teach us all the games you know.
Andrew Adams:
All right. I'm making a note right now.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There we go. Boom.
Andrew Adams:
We're doing an episode on games that's coming soon.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If anybody wants to participate in that episode, reach out to us.
Andrew Adams:
Coming soon to a podcast player near you.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Coming soon to earbuds near you, or screen or speakers.
Andrew Adams:
Games. So, yes, I agree. There are definitely some times where I play the game because I wanna play that game today.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Andrew Adams:
And sometimes I don't, you know, like we've talked about it in the past, that when I'm teaching, like I've gotta be on. And sometimes I don't feel like it, but I still have to be on. So some, maybe that's a day where we play jump rope in class at the end of class, you know. And I can just do this and you know, vary it up and change the speed and you know, but the kids are still learning these concepts of how to see things and distancing and timing. I mean, all those things are useful even though I'm only playing jump rope.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There's one more thing that I want to bring in as it relates to fun. And I think this, and if you have other stuff to add, you know, by all means, but this is the last point I really wanna make. If I think about the newer instructor or frankly the less skilled instructor, the thing that I have noticed about games and fun is that they can buy me time. If I'm losing the class, if they're not having fun, we could be 20 minutes into a 60-minute class. And I know, you know what, this is not working. This doesn't happen to me as much anymore, but it used to happen quite often. I'm losing them. They're tuning out. They're looking at the clock. I know I'm going sideways here and I've gotta do something to pull it back. I can play a game with them for five minutes and it's like hitting the reset button.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's like starting class over. They're optimistic again. They give me the benefit of the doubt, and it can give me a few minutes to bridge to the next thing. And I could flip that too, I could say, all right, I know you guys are losing steam. I know that this is not the most exciting thing that we've ever done. And I will promise you once we get through this, and I gotta give them some kind of definable goal, if we can get through this, you know, if we can get everybody to learn this half of the form or whatever it is, we're gonna move on to something else. I promise you, we'll kind of rinse our brains. We'll have five minutes of game, but I need you to really buckle down and focus with me right now, right? So deferring fun or using fun as a transition, as a save, as a reset can all work.
Andrew Adams:
Or using it as a treat at the end. Like, we're gonna do this if, we once we're done this, this is what the fun thing we have coming later.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When you think about any list of things or set of things, movie, music, [00:30:00] martial arts class, the two most important parts are the?
Andrew Adams:
Say it one more time.
Jeremy Lesniak:
The most important part of any list set? The start in the end.
Andrew Adams:
Oh yeah, yeah. Intro and outro.
Jeremy Lesniak:
People lose memory in the middle and they come back up at the end. And there are studies on this. You can go back, you can do this research if you want. If you give somebody a list of 10 things, they're statistically more likely to remember the things at the beginning and the end.
Andrew Adams:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If it's 10, they're not gonna remember 5 and 6.
Andrew Adams:
Yep. Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But they will remember 1 in 10. So if you end your class with something really fun, that's the thing the kid's gonna get in the car and talk about.
Andrew Adams:
Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Make it fun.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What have we missed? What else do we need to add on to this?
Andrew Adams:
Don't be afraid to make it fun. I think instructors, I genuinely think they sometimes feel that afraid to do that. That they are losing stock with their students because they are not being serious enough. And I think that's a shame that people feel that way, but I do think that that is felt often.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And this is where we often see a bit of dissonance from the reality in instructors who are not good at this and what will they say? Well, I refuse to compromise what I teach. I refuse to water it down.
Andrew Adams:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We teach traditional martial arts. Ok. It can be traditional martial arts with modern teaching methods. What you actually mean if you're saying that is I refuse to evolve as an instructor.
Andrew Adams:
Yep. Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And that is your choice. If you want to teach in traditional ways, I'm not gonna say you're wrong. However, if you say, I teach in traditional ways, I refuse to evolve my teaching methodology, but I also want more students and I don't understand why I don't have them. Well, then I'm gonna say maybe you're wrong. Maybe those two things are in, because those two things are in conflict and maybe you would consider changing them.
Andrew Adams:
Yep. I agree wholeheartedly.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Andrew Adams:
And it's okay to change. Like it's okay to be one way right now and say, you know what? Maybe I wanna try something a little different and add something and change your teaching style. There's nothing wrong with that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I thought of one more thing I wanted to add.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And this is something that I'm not sure how many people have had this experience, but generally speaking, the classes that I've been in over the course of my martial arts career, just statistically towards the front of the room. I'm not always the highest-ranked student, but often enough, which gives me a little bit of leeway. And as I got to know my instructors, I got to know where the gaps were. Where were the places I might be able to assist? Because right? Senpai or you know, some kind of senior student regardless of the system and the language, there was a responsibility there. And we often think about it, oh, that person's responsibility is when they are delegated to go take that person or that group or lead the warmup or whatever.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Your responsibility is so much deeper than that. And one of the things I took very seriously was how can I make this class better for everyone, including the instructor at this moment. And did I overstep at times? Yep. How do you find boundaries? You push them. Definitely, people knew, people especially in my last tenure in TaeKwonDo, people knew. Hey, if Jeremy was there, we're probably gonna have a fun time. Because if I was feeling the crowd, the class, if the energy was dipping a little bit, I would support that instructor. I love Master Rodan. Grandmaster Rodan now. He did a wonderful job of making things fun, especially for kids. But it didn't mean he had to be there solo. And he trusted me in that way cause we built that kind of rapport. So if you find yourself at the front of the room, but not the very front of the room, there may be points in time where you can do so and you know when it's appropriate. If you've been hanging around in that school for five, six years, you know where the lines are.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. I would say you are a fun guy, I'm a fun guy. We are both mushrooms.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We are. We both have the smooth cap.
Andrew Adams:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We have mushroom cap skulls.
Andrew Adams:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And this is where the fun starts to veer a little bit and we should pull it back and call it a day.
Andrew Adams:
Awesome.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Alright. I would invite anybody in the audience if you have stuff that you wanna add. If you wanna join us for the games episode that we will do upcoming, reach out. Let us know.
Andrew Adams:
Email me. Tell me the games. If there are specific games you play in your school, shoot me an email, andrew@whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. Tell me the name of the game and how it's played. And we will compile them and we will do an episode just on games.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yep, absolutely.
Andrew Adams:
And if you wanna also include why you play, are there specific reasons like I talked about. I play jump ropes sometimes because it teaches timing, it teaches you know, distancing and figuring out when to jump in and not. So like I would love to get those, I'd love to get a bunch of emails about games.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Totally.
Andrew Adams:
I'm gonna get such a long email from Noah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I love it. I love it. Alright, yeah, reach out. So, the last thing I wanna say is why we are not telling anyone that they teach wrong? We are not telling anyone that their class culture is wrong. We are inviting you to consider that fun is not only a necessary evil but furthers nearly every goal that every martial arts practitioner and instructor has. Time is short. Our life on this planet is not lengthy. Why not do all the things you wanna do and have fun and recognize that those things that you wanna do with relation to martial arts are enhanced through the addition and prioritization of fun. If you wanna reach out to me, it's jeremy@whistlekick.com. Andrew already said it, but I'll say it again, andrew@whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. Our social media is @whistlekick everywhere you could think of. Now, if you like the things that we talk about as they relate to martial arts schools, I work with martial arts schools privately. I help them grow. If you want to be part of that, if you want to have your school grow in terms of dollars or people, I can do that. Reach out to me. If you want to have me or us, or maybe some other folks, you know the folks that hang around whistlekick. Most of us teach seminars. You want to get 1, 2, 7 of us together to teach at your school, we can do that too. Let us know. And of course, we have the Patreon and books at all kinds of things. Don't forget podcast15 at whistlekick.com. That takes us to the end of another episode. Thank you for joining us. Until next time. Train hard, smile, have a great day.