Episode 752 - Sensei Arthur Gulley Jr.

Sensei Arthur Gulley Jr. is a Martial Arts practitioner, instructor, and author from Michigan, who has gained quite a following on TikTok.

One of the things I really stress when I do my videos is that, it’s not about which style is better, it’s not about which discipline is better… It’s about how you understand the principles of that discipline.

Sensei Arthur Gulley Jr. - Episode 752

His bullies never realized what they had done was wrong, they taught him some moves on how to defend himself. Sensei Arthur Gulley Jr. had an interesting way of getting introduced to Martial Arts. First, it was his bullies, and then his cousins. Because of financial restraints, Sensei Arthur Gulley Jr. was unable to train until he was older, but the fire kept growing. Presently, he is a 4th Dan in Isshinryu under Grandmaster Willie Adams.

Sensei Arthur Gulley Jr. is married and has three sons. He is also a musician and an author with works on all Platforms and books on kindle.

In this episode, Sensei Arthur Gulley Jr. shares his journey in martial arts from a kid who wants to learn how to defend himself into the passionate Martial Artist he is today. Listen to learn more!

Show Transcript

You can read the transcript below.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome, You are listening to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, episode 752, my guest today, Sensei Arthur Gulley Jr., my name is Jeremy Lesniak. I'm your host here for the show. And I founded whistlekick because I love traditional martial arts, in all forms, and all implementations, all reasons why training and that's why we do all the things that we do. If you want to see all the things that we do, we'll go to whistlekick.com, that's our online home. You're gonna find all the things that we're working on, including some of the products that we release to monetize all the cool content stuff that we put out for free like this show, you find something over there that you like, use the code PODCAST15, it'll save you 15% helps us on the back end. And all is well.

If you want to go deeper on this or any other episode of the show because they're all available for free, with no paywall, nothing like that we don't take them down at any point, go to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, you're gonna find all kinds of cool stuff over there, photos, videos, links, even transcripts of past episodes. So you can dig deeper into what our guests say. We bring you two shows each and every week, with the goal of connecting, educating, and entertaining you, the traditional martial artists of the world. If you appreciate that, if that means something and you want to do something for us to help us continue doing what we're doing and expand our offerings, you've got a lot of options, you could tell people about what we're doing, share this episode with somebody, or you could buy something, you could leave a review on Spotify, Apple podcasts, whatever works for you, or consider joining our Patreon patreon.com/whistlekick and get in as little as two bucks a month, find out who's coming up on the show, it's the only place we release that information. 

And at various tiers, we give you tons of value back for the kind of stuff that you're going to enjoy. And if you want the whole list of all the ways you can help us in our mission to connect, educate and entertain, go to whistlekick.com/family. You got to type it in, there's no link or anything. And if you do that, you're gonna see a big long list of things- stuff that takes a little bit of time, stuff that's really fast, stuff that costs you some money, stuff that is completely free. We appreciate each and every one of you and all the things that you do to help us make sure that we continue on our mission. I've been paying attention to today's guest for a while. I enjoyed what he had to say. I've liked his videos on Tiktok. But there was some stuff that he started putting out and I said, You know what, this is a guy we need on the show. And so I reached out to Andrew and I said check this guy out. What do you think? And he agreed. And that's how we got here. Enjoy my conversation today with Sensei Art Gulley. So how are you? 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

I'm doing well. I'm doing very well. I'm really looking forward to this. This was very exciting. I've listened to a few of the episodes at work. And it's like, wow, you guys, you've got you run a great podcast. And it's really, really honored that anybody wants to talk to me about anything. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Well, I've been watching what you've been doing on Tiktok for a while and you have convictions and you hold to them.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Yeah.

Jeremy Lesniak:

And you and I philosophically are fairly aligned. And I just we've got a platform, and I'm trying to share it with people who are doing the right things, for the right reason, seemingly for the right reasons. And you're on that list. So I said, Andrew if you get on the show. We can either kind of pause here and chat about what's going to happen or we just kind of can kind of dive in depending on your comfort level.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

I'm in a master class also, we were supposed to adapt. So this is a good test.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Let's do it, all right. Why did you get started? Why did you start doing martial arts?

Arthur Gulley Jr:

I started when I was young, I was an overweight kid. I was an only child. So I got picked on a bit and teased. So I wanted to learn how to fight, so some kids in the neighborhood. This is the funny one of the guys because how's that, there's that one house that has 20 brothers and sisters. The younger brother thought I was probably about maybe 10 or 11. At the time, the youngest brother was about seven or eight. He hit me with a rock. 

And so I was like, don't hit me with a rock and I kind of got mad I told him up well, his brothers all came over to the house. And it was like four or five of them and they're like, yeah, don't mess with our brother and blah, blah, blah. And one of them did when he was like maybe a couple of years old and he just hit me in the head. And it rocked my head and I just got mad and I looked and I looked and I'm like, okay, I'm about to just get beat up. 

So I just said yeah, okay, and I walked up. Well, the next day he came back down and he said my brother told me, that was wrong what we did yesterday, man, he said, but I hit you hard. You didn't fall. So he said, what do you do? I'm like, I don't do anything. He is like I’m gonna show you some moves. So he started showing me some boxing. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

And just like that, the bully flipped. Yeah, it was like, here, let me teach you.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

He hit me. I didn't fall down, alright, but he showed me some boxing. And then, of course, everybody was watching. I'm really old so we have the Kung Fu classics back in the day, all the short brother classics. So everybody's watching that. But he had taken up some taekwondo. He was showing me that and he's the one that started with the nunchucks. And then later, one of my cousins started taekwondo. So he started training me in some taekwondo. As I got older, I asked my mom, and she was like, No, I'm not paying him for that. So when I turned 18, of course, I'm on my own. I went to a taekwondo school where they used to be here in Detroit. And I don't know if he was international or what but it was Master Chem. And he had all the ads in the phone books, and he's doing flying sidekicks and everything. 

So I was so excited. He'd been around the years, I went in for an interview, I set it up, and I went in to join. And he came in, he showed me all these books with him doing flying kicks, and this and that. He says, ``We will teach you this”. This is okay. This is great. How much is it? He says he told me this really high number. I mean, I was 18 on my own at the time, and I said, “Oh, wow, that's, um, I said, that's kind of pricey”. I said, what do you have, like any plans? And he says, Okay, well, you can train one day a week, and then you sweep the floors in the dojo and I was like, okay, well, can I think about it, and he said, he jumped up, he says, you wasted my time, you don't want to try and get out. So that was pretty much that was my intro. So I was feeling kind of bitter about that. So I went at the time, I was taking classes at OCC and one of the gym electives was karate. So I took it and it showed a con under. He was a sensei at the time. I cannot remember his name. But he really showed us the basics and as the first kata hands showed, it was amazing. So I just really wanted to join but at the dojo, where he was teaching it, I still couldn't afford it. But he taught me a very valuable lesson, which sort of set the tone for my martial arts down the road. After the class, I got to an after-class, and you know, so it was great. I told him, I said, you know, I've made up my own little kata, can I show it to you? And he says, Oh, absolutely. So I did some little moves, whatever. And I thought I was doing something. When he got finished, he walked over to me and looked at me and I said, What do you think he says? I think you need to commit to really training so you can really understand it because it's not about making moves. And that was it. And so that stuck with me.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Didn't it hurt?

Arthur Gulley Jr:

It didn't make me upset. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Okay, interesting.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

It made me think I was like, wow, because when he said it because he said it was so nice. He said I think you should really devote yourself to learning real karate. So you can know what you're doing just because just putting a bunch of moves together. He said that that's not real karate. And I was like, okay, and he was so pleasant. I wish I could remember his first name. He was like the nicest man. Okay, man. I think now he's like six or seven because I saw a write-up on him and an article a couple of years back, but he was the nicest man. So a couple of years after that, I started working at home weatherization here in Detroit. And one of my co-workers, we would do, I was talking to him, and I do a little taekwondo. He says, Listens, man, you need to get an issue or you need to get an issue. And I was like, Okay, does that sounds like you sneeze? And he's like, No, he's getting an issue. 

So we were weatherization techs, we would in between houses, we would do little sparring and stuff. And he would always get right in my face. And I'm like, How are you doing? because my kicks are pretty good. And I was flexible. He says You got to come to Davidson. You got to come to meet Mr. Adams, you got to come to the home with the Warriors. So finally, I went down one day, and I met Master Grandmaster Willie Adams. And I told him, I said, Listen, I want to take a ride. Yes, and I'm very clumsy. I said I've got a little taekwondo. I've got a little show to a con I don't. I said I'm not very flexible anymore because I was starting to get some injuries. And he says, Listens, if you can walk up a flight of stairs, you can do Isshin-ryū.

And I said, okay, I said, well, what makes Isshin-ryū, I'll say, what makes Isshin-ryū great? He says, well, Isshin-ryū was great, he says, but karate is great because it's a good way. And that was what he said. So I started training. And that was in the midst of the 93. And I've just been Isshin-ryū ever since. And I've been fortunate because I've been at the time when you first start out, you don't understand the lineage of what you're being handed and you learn it over time. 

Of course, we learned the history, Grandmaster Shimabuku, that social mambukal created the style and I had the pleasure of meeting Grandmaster Ng, he came to the school, but my first formal teacher was Mr. Eugene Woods, Jr. He was one of Mr. Adams high dogs, and so he ran the Davidson school. And I know I drove him crazy because I have OCD. So everything becomes an obsession. So I would just ask and I would ask and he was showing me stuff. But the one thing he always impressed upon was movement and principles. 

That's all I mean, we learned how to fight Isshin-ryū like this in your face. You know everything, it's like it's a street fight. It's a hybrid of Shorei Goju Ryu. And some other stuff that I'm sure Master Buku throws there, but it's in your face, our Katas are not ready. Our stances are more natural, which is good, you know, for people like me with issues. But as I learned, it was just principles, principles. And he would always say, it doesn't matter if you're not good today, if you just follow the principle of the movement, you will get good. If you keep practicing. If you throw that same punch over, and over, and over, you will get good. And that's basically what I've done over the years. So I've just been with Master Adams and I've been fortunate to train with Master Adams who has hundreds of black belts. So I've been fortunate enough to train with a lot of great people Grandmaster Mike Shaffer, my Grandmaster, Reggie Phillips, and one of what we call them, I call my second dad, Grandmaster Carl Martin out of Philly. Now, when I was a green belt, Master Woods, put size in my hand.

He said I need you to do something because you drive me great. Isshin-ryū, our school, you don't learn science, so you become a shodan. So that in itself was a little, but he put them in my hand and he showed me how to hold them. And he said I'm not gonna play what I'm not gonna teach you nothing else. So that's what I started doing. But I started researching and looking up, I bought the side book at the time, and I'm finding out how to do stuff. And I'm sneaking in little questions. So by the time, I became a black belt, at my size where I was really good with him, so I start learning Kata. Well, we started traveling down. Master Martin used to be in Detroit when he moved to Philly years before he came up to visit. And so me and my buddy, Fred George, who I have to mention my brother from another mother, who's he's like, I think Fred's a sixth time now. But we're just, we were combat brothers. We started driving to Philly, to train with Master Martin. And it's old school.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Philly is a hike from where you were right?

Arthur Gulley Jr:

It was a 10-hour drive. 

Jeremy Lesniak

Yeah.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

We did it in nine hours, and 40 minutes, and we would get in the caravan at five in the morning. And we were supposed to share a drive for tailgating and a caravan and fall asleep. So once he fell asleep, that was it, I did it non-stop because that's just me, we would have to do about 100 miles an hour, and we would stay a few days. And the things we learned. I mean, that the way he did the [0:12:35-0:12:36] to training, everything was just hardcore. But the side training and it was just like, wow, so it's like our minds just expanded. So when we came back to Detroit, we would filter in that stuff. And anybody if you give me something on the spine, one of the things I really stress about when I do my videos is that it's not about what style is better. It's not about which discipline is better. It's about your understanding of the principles of that discipline. So if you show me a punch, and you can explain the principles behind it, and they don't violate the mechanics of body and physics, I'm gonna learn that and adapt it. Because that's what true karate is, it's a continual evolution. If you look at some of the old videos in the 50s, they're grainy and stuff when you watch him do a Kata and you watch them do Saisai[0:13:26-0:12:37]. And then you look at us how it's taught now. I mean, there are tons of differences, because are you talking about the drunk video? 

Not that one.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Not that one

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Not that one but he was at the agenda Dojo, I mean, that the Dojo master.

Jeremy Lesniak:

The silly one I've seen is the drunk one. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

You've got some of him actually, in Okinawa. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Oh, I gotta check those out.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

They're in black and white, and he's younger. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Okay.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

And it's like, wait a minute, What are you doing? Why are you sharing like that? He does want to just token meanie [0:13:55-0:12:56]. And he's doing it one-handed with that bow a lot. And then you watch later on and it evolves and evolves and evolves and evolves. So one of the things I really, this whole karate journey over almost 30 years, is that the only thing that I've learned is that I don't know anything. Every day, I learned something new. And it's like, oh, I don't understand that. Okay, now I get it then I realize, Oh, what if I get this? now I've got to get that. And to me, that's what martial arts are about. It's about continuing to improve yourself mentally, physically, and spiritually, but it's about understanding what the human body can do. 

There's a reason the grandmasters created this killing in karate in this space, it's about maiming and killing. The Okinawan original tape was about survival. The Japanese put spirituality into the Americans when they came back, they put the regimen and all of that, but karate is about survival. There's a reason these moves were created. There's a reason Bodhidharma showed the monks what to do. There's a reason the Shaolin techniques have endured. If you understand the reasons behind it, the principles behind it, you can beat anyone and you can be effective. And that's what I tried to put on my Tiktok now. Originally, I started Tiktok to promote my music.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I have never seen any of your videos pop up with music.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

All my videos that have music in it, that's my music. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Oh, I didn't know.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Every video that has music in it, it's my music because my music gets published and so it's a sound on TikTok. I didn't know my company did that until I was looking through tickets and hey, that's my song. And then I looked at my contract and you're like well Collins, you're on all the platforms. So I would like little videos of me driving down the street and showing me doing music. I did one. I've got a couple of songs that were actually saying most of it's on instrumentals jazz new Age, but no views. So then I started doing silly stuff. You want my little voice imitations and comedies, my little series, it's the wrong series, and the Flex Morgan series, no views. 

I did a video where all I did was a Karambit tutorial, and went viral. It was 45 seconds long. I do not speak in it. I showed the trainer and I flashed, I don't put the words up. It went viral. So then I did another video. 

I did some fun martial arts. It was good. So I got frustrated. And I was gone. that's it. I'm leaving Tiktok. Well, there's one of my Tiktok friends. His name is his martial arts tag and he dances at [0:16:32-0:16:33]. He's a couple of stylists in Ireland. And we would chat through messenger. And he said I haven't see you since you were banned. I said, what, I'm sick of this, I'm trying to get my music out there. And all I do is go crazy. He says well put your music in karate. So, light bulb so I told my wife she's like, well, yeah, you're doing videos, right? You can put music in and right? Put your music in karate. So that's what I started doing. But then I realized as I was doing that, you started attracting more martial arts content. And a lot of stuff I saw I didn't like you, because there's always.

Jeremy Lesniak:

You're more generous than I am. The majority of what I see.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

I know that we may have miners listening, so I'm gonna couch my comments. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

I appreciate that.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

With diplomacy, it was let's say, it was the things that animals screaked. A lot of what I saw, is because everyone's focused on looking sweet and being bad and doing this. But you're not really showing anything you're not teaching. I mean, Tiktok is a great platform, it's a good opportunity, and you can actually show somebody that may help them. If I get up and show you a killing move, the only thing that's going to do is set you up to either get hurt or hurt someone because you don't understand a principle. 

But if I show you how to move two feet by shifting your weight, sliding, and using your center, now that's going to help you every day in your life. If you fall, you'll quickly correct yourself. If you're in sports, it'll help. And if you're doing a fighting style, you understand the principles of biomechanics. So I'm biased, I started based on my platform on that. And then when I do demos or stuff, I try to put my music in. And I was like, please listen to my music, go to Spotify, I'm on all the platforms. And that's basically how I'm slowly gaining a lot of followers. And it really, touches me, it overwhelms me, I get so many messages from people saying thank you for breaking this down. or thank you for this. 

I have one lady and I did a video because I had both my hips replaced last year. So you're limited, you can't walk. So I had to learn how to talk with sentences. And look, I didn't know what to do. So he would work over principals. And so I started showing stuff you could do if you got limited mobility. And this one lady, she said, she had Ms, and she says, I forgot that I can use my knees or I can move the way you and thank you for this. 

I had another guy he's like, I'm in a similar situation. And it just really makes me feel good. It's like, okay, I'm putting stuff that I'm going through, out there. And it's helping people. And that's what karate is to me. It's about it, the whole spirit of martial arts. Okay, we learned how to maim and kill so we can protect our loved ones, but we also learn how to heal, and how to be healthy, so we can protect ourselves and our loved ones. 

So this whole, when you guys when they sent me the email, and I'm like, they want to talk to you so you guys want to talk to me and I knew who you were. And he said, “yeah, Jeremy follows you”. I was like, I followed him. Because you used to put more stuff in and I understand why you stopped because I remember the other video you put out about the reality there's a phone ring and now about the political aspects of TikTok. It's just everybody hating each other. Everybody's challenging each other. Everybody's saying this is garbage, and that's garbage and the trolls.

Jeremy Lesniak:

And the algorithm rewards that right and so you see people and there are people. And offline we could talk about it. I'm not going to disparage people.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Oh, yeah.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Publicly, but there are people who I followed initially and I loved their content. And they found it kind of similar to what was going on with you with your music, very little engagement. And so then they just started feeding the trolls because you're taking comments, you're replying to that comment with a video and Tiktok. 

Like, oh, that's exactly what we want you to do, want a negative feedback loop. And so great, people were just scraping the bottom and like, I know, you have more to offer now. And so that's why I think you stand out because you've refused to do that. There's one video in particular, and it was, I don't want to get specific with it. 

But there was a video where you essentially said, I'm not going to come down to this level with you, throw in the shade. Oh, okay, the one I'm talking about. And that was when I saw that video, I reached out to Andrew Rose, and I took a screenshot of your ticket. I was like, “Get our Art needs to come on the show right now.”

Arthur Gulley Jr:

And that particular user was offline because it was a situation where I overstepped. I'm not gonna say I did, and I was what I say it was thumbs, but the response I'm like, whoa, bro, I'm not coming down.

Jeremy Lesniak:

It was.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

It was. We resolved it. And then I said, my apologies. He said he'd retracted it, and we resolved it. And now it's like we built a friendship based on what? You are right. I went a little too far- triggered me. Thank you for telling me, and thank you for apologizing. And you were and it's like, I can work with it. I had a guy once. He could have a really negative comment on one of my videos. 

And so I asked him, I said, well, what will make you say that it wasn't in terms of movement? And he says, well, I'm such a person. So we had dialogue for several things back and forth. And then he's like, I actually understand what you're saying so he became a follower. And now he often comments on my video, he doesn't post anything. 

But he'll post, and they'll say, hey, I've noticed that I keep up the good work. See, that's what to me. It's okay. If you want to question what I'm doing. I get that. But if you're going to come out with outright negativity, when I see a negative comment, the first thing I do, which we all do, I look at the user. Okay, you're making a negative comment, you've got no concept. So whatever, bro, but it's not. If I take that energy to respond to that, then I'm cheating myself. I bet it was true for me. I'm gonna say, okay, this is negative. What did they say? 

If everybody is talking about you doing something, right? What's the first thing since they teach you in a fight, walk away, because walk away, because I know one of us is not coming home. Make no mistake, I take my karate very seriously. And we get into it. I'm going home because, especially now, the new Game of Thrones is coming. So I gotta go home, which means one of us has to die, and it's going to be you, which is why I train, I don't train for tournaments. I don't train for sport. I don't do any of that. I train hardcore. Now, when I'm in the dojo, I have to couch everything, since they tell us that every move and he teaches us these moves can instantly become lethal. It's about killing and maiming. 

So I'm not gonna waste that energy engaging with people over the keyboards and, you see, folks, and it's sad because I see so many good martial artists who have something to offer. And like you said, all they do is do troll response videos. And I don't understand that. It's like, why are you even bothering? Especially some of these guys, when you're seven, eight? I mean, you're supposed to know better, in my opinion.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I agree. But, I think it's proof that ego exists. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Yeah.

Jeremy Lesniak:

And depending on where you're at, in life and the world, putting out a video that gets a lot of attention can make you feel good. There's a dopamine response, there are apps, that know exactly what they're doing to us.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

They know how to trigger you.  And it's sad because people say why is the world in the state that it is. Well, that's because chaos feeds the masses, especially now with COVID and everything people are looking for that escape, and the quick fix. Chaos is the quick fix that gives you the adrenaline rush, or whatever. And I don't know, I always say as martial artists, we are supposed to rise above it. I don't care what you're disciplining. I don't care what your martial style is. If you are a true martial artist, I did a video about that. Are you a martial artist, or someone who practices martial arts? If you're a martial artist, you're gonna subscribe to the codes, the principles, you're going to understand the shito you're gonna walk a higher road because you know what it could lead to if you don't. 

You look at Achilles’ shield in ancient times, the reason he had the gardens on his shield is that I'm fighting this war so I can get to the garden. You see what I'm saying, if I go down this road with you, it's going to end badly. I'm training so that it will end badly. I don't want to do that. So I'm going to keep myself back because I know the results, I know the consequences of my actions. And that's one of the things that I find that like the platform like TikTok, it's feeding the other end of that spectrum, it's showing, I think it's irresponsible. If you show a specific move, that will hurt someone, and you do it in detail and you put it out there. And then some idiot is going to learn, and they're going to hurt somebody, I think that's very irresponsible. Any video I put out there is one of the things, especially when I did a boat series because I just get tired of seeing everyone do amazing stuff. And then no one if you don't know how to start, people are gonna get hurt. You're gonna get hurt if you do not know how to properly hold a Karambit, you are going to slash your hand. 

Okay. If you do not know how to properly hold and turn that bow, you're going to clock yourself in the head, you're going to kill yourself or hurt yourself. So you show this fancy stuff. And then what? So it's like, no, I'm going to show you hold the box. And you do this, and that's it. And then you do that. And then I always say, if you truly want to learn, you seek a qualified institution or teacher, qualified, always be qualified, [0:26:32-0:26:35] but you seek a qualified institution because, to me, it's important. I want to whet your appetite, I want to show you some true karate, I want to show you some of my art, but I want to show you just enough to make you curious, so that if you want to go deeper, then you will seek that knowledge because that's the journey. That's part of the responsibility. It's like, if I want something, I gotta go get it. It's like when you want that 20-ounce Porterhouse that is only that place 15 miles away, you'll drive to get it, that's dedication. If you want the true training, the true understanding, if you want the true totality of it, you're going to seek that training. And that's something I think that as martial artists as senseis we really should start pushing, okay, if you want to learn, find a qualified teacher, I, myself, I have a problem. 

There are a lot of online schools, I don't have a problem. If you're in an online class, one on one or three-on-one with the Sensei, and you aren't, I love that video conference. I love that. I do have a problem when people just throw out a YouTube video. And this is the move and so you learn that and you think okay, now I know Karate. There was no interaction, there was no explanation of the principal, and there was no explanation of the basis behind it. There's no history behind it. And that's what's happening a lot.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Let me play devil's advocate. I actually, I'm, we're not in complete agreement. But I'm more in agreement with you that I am in disagreement, but let me play devil's advocate just for the sake of conversation. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Definitely. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

If we think of a first-week white belt, okay. That's kind of what you're doing, though, isn't it? You're not teaching them the depth of a technique, you're teaching them something, and they're gonna get it wrong. Oh, they're gonna screw it up. And there's a point in martial arts training where someone's going to take what they've learned, and take it out on the street and get themselves hurt. It's in that early time before it's really been drilled into their head. This is walk away first, etc, so how is it different? How is the video different from those first couple of classes?

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Because the video is different the first couple of classes that you said it right there, the first couple classes, you're building upon the foundation, you come to me on Monday, I showed you how to punch and block, you come on Tuesday, I show you the same punching block, and we talk about why you should do this. You come to me on Wednesday, I show you the same punching block. And we talked about why you should do this and why you shouldn't do this. I put up a video of day one, I do the day one video, but then I don't want to do any follow-up. So you're getting the first bite of that sandwich. 

And you're not getting the rest of the meal. So now, you're trying to survive on that one bite, you're trying to make it through your week on one bite of the sandwich whereas the rest of you is starving because the rest of the meal is left behind. It wasn't given to you, it wasn't presented to you. That's why I say not when there are online courses when they charge and they should where to give you step by step. That's fine. But I have a problem when you start something, you put a little bit of something out there. 

And then you walk away from it. Well, you got all these people clamoring for it and you haven't given them anything. If I could do a series like I'm doing, I'm doing the one, the karambit in the car, I would be bored. I'm gonna do it because you should be able to work your weapons in the car, anything can happen. You should be able to work on weapons in the car, I'm not going to bow in the car.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I think you should do some practicalities. I think you roll down the windows. And I think you do bow in the car. I'm telling you, I think there you go. You've got until this comes out before somebody else deals

Arthur Gulley Jr:

I might bow in the car just because I'm gonna like everybody and, just because Jeremy said. But if I do that, you know what will happen. If I do that, you will have someone sticking their bra off the car. And it will be a new thing to drive by as close as you can hit a pedestrian.

Jeremy Lesniak:

It's called Charleston and for hundreds of years.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Yeah, but it'll be a pedestrian that has no idea. Just because somebody doesn't like this is the world.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I hate that I see your point.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

You have to do it, you have to walk the moral high ground, you have to walk it because not everyone's going to walk with it. But it doesn't matter to anyone else. This is what you say I know that if I show that someone could potentially be hurt. So I'm not going to show that. Although I might do cane in the car, anyway. But it's like when you do something so I didn't do karambit at first I started off, got the train, got the trainer. 

If you don't have a trainer, tape your blade up with painter’s tape, first move this and then first move work that, then I'll come back to the next video, I added to it. And on the first okay, on the final video, this is the complete sequence. This is just the beginner sequence. So what I did is took you from day one each day until you get a trainer, I reinforced that I tell you to practice slowly and slightly reinforce that constantly for five or six videos, you're being basically that first week of class, and I ended on something that's a complete, boom, you go to karate, you get the first 10 basics. If you quit, you've got 10 basics. And like a mess, Adam says if you can master your basics, you can be a man walking into work, because everything is about the basics. 

Now whether you choose to practice them, and as long as you but I have given you 10 basics, the reasons behind them. And I've given you a foundation of do not go out and start a fight because I'm constantly telling you that, but I don't like on the flip side of that if I come out and show you the punch. And then I'm gonna make a follow-up. So you've got this punch, and you don't really know what to do with this punch. But then you go and hit somebody with this punch. I haven't told you not to hit people with this punch. I haven't told you this is very dangerous. I haven't told you, you must practice slowly. And even if you don't hurt anybody, you go to punch and you break your hand.

I did a video that went kind of viral. All I did was show the Isshinryu fist, I stuck my hand up, closed my fist, and said why we did it. People went crazy about it. And then I had a car. It was a really good dialogue with a guy and he said, Well, it looks like your thumbs are gonna get broken. Why don't you do that? So then I did a video explaining why it's done. And it was so cool. Because he says, we actually have the fifth seminar in our system. And I thought that was amazing to see. That's what I mean, that's the positive side of Tiktok. Now if I hadn't responded with well, blah, blah, I would have missed out on that exchange. You don't know what you're talking about? Come to my school, and I'll show you, oh, please.

Let's not go there. I hear that so many times. I had a friend of mine, this guy. He's a wrestler and a big guy too. And it's when you look at him, he's like he just has a nice teddy bear. He moves at a nice even pace. But he does these rolls and these tucks, and he was asking me to say, you should do a video showing your style versus this, your style versus that. And I'm like, I don't want to do that because that's pointless. Because since I'm asked, Adams always says this, and I want this to go international. 

He always says this is the one concept of martial arts that should drive you. This is the one truth that should outweigh everything else. And that is when you train in karate when you train in martial arts on any given day. You can beat anybody in the world. But on any given day, anybody in the world can beat you. So you've got to train for the eventualities. He drills that into us. So it's like, I can't say that, I see a lot of guys, they are comparing the jiu-jitsu with the traditional martial arts, with MMA, with the boxing, you get anyone who is a dedicated practitioner in any of those styles. They're going to be a very difficult opponent. So you've got to follow your principles. Do you know what I'm saying?

Have you ever watched Jet Li's remake of Fist of Fury? First of all, if you ever watch that, it's been a while. There's a scene I know you got to remember. When the Old Japanese master comes to challenge him and they go out into the wilderness. And they start fighting and Jet Li starts bouncing in the manuals, like, what are you doing? And so he starts asking him questions, and he's throwing them off. 

And he's explaining this and this and this and that. So there's a point when they're fighting and gently sagging, so the master keeps looking. So then he starts doing the same thing. And it's like, he quickly took what he saw, adapted it, and still kept his principles, but added to them. I think that's a really good scene. And they don't overplay because Jet kind of smiles at him. And then they just go at it. But I like that, and he says, “You beat me.” And he says, No, I didn't, what I did was I took what you had, and adapted it to my principles, and that's what karate is about, what martial arts are about. 

But this stuff we got now, whereas everybody wants to be the best everybody wants to be, who cares? Which one is better? On Okinawa, the great masters, they didn't, there were no styles on Okinawa, and the Japanese came, and they said, you're gonna have to formulate styles because when we bring our representatives, it needs to be organized. There was no style, there was this man training, this man training, that men training, let's get together. And oh, I like what you're doing. 

Oh, I like what you're doing. That's why if you look at the Katas, everything looks the same because they trade it and exchange. Let's face it, there are only so many ways you can throw a punch because the human hand is only going to align itself in so many ways. So it doesn't matter. If I'm going in, I'm coming and coming, if the end result is the same, maybe you should find out why this works and adapt it to you, following the principles. And that's, I guess, that gets me heated.

Jeremy Lesniak:

The majority of people out there are hell-bent on figuring it out. This is better than this, and this person is better than that person, everything. One, they barely trained, if at all, number one, and number two, it's coming from a place of fear. They're afraid of training in the wrong thing and wasting their time. And it's the same reason that we've got the older generation of martial artists, and they were hell-bent on this school is better, I'm better, that person sucks, because it for them to acknowledge that there was even some information that would have enhanced what they were doing, it meant they could have been better, they could be better than they are. And their ego can handle that.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

And I think it goes back to what you said before. If your ego won't accept it. Grandmaster Adams, he's attempting that all right, and one of the foremost masters in the world. And you know what he says? He says, every day, I'm learning. This man is the epitome of first-like, as I'm just saying, a walk on water. I've seen him do it. Now, let me say it, he's one of the most amazing martial artists and movements you will ever find. And every day, he says, I gotta keep practicing. I gotta keep practicing every day, I'm learning. 

So now I'm teaching you so every day, I'm learning. And that's that mentality that we're missing. And I think you're right. If you're so afraid to step out of your comfort zone, or you're so afraid that you've gotten to a point, why are you afraid of somebody better than you? There's always going to be somebody better than you. So why don't you learn from him? What acquired on Sand and Star Wars, there's always a bigger fish, right? 

There's always a faster kicker, there's always a faster puncher, so you better learn how to be a better mover, or you better work your side chance so you can learn how to be a better punch absorption because that's the whole essence. And let me ask you your opinion on this because this is a topic that really that kind of bugs me. There's a really great disdain for Katas. There's so much in people who don't understand the point of negativity of Kata, what's your weight in Kata, and how to use it in terms of the issue? What's the significance of playing something?

Jeremy Lesniak:

I used to have a longer speech on this. And it became a speech because I was confronted with so many people who had come to me about it, and I would say, so here's the latest iteration. Do you recognize the purpose, and the value of practicing on your own? 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Yeah, Okay. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

So you're trying to become a better martial artist. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Yeah. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

So you want to become stronger and faster, and more flexible and better timing and build all these things? 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Yeah. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Okay. Wouldn't it be really cool if you could do all of those things? Kind of at once? Yeah, that's Katas and that’s forms. If you're practicing forms without any intent or any focus on any kind of physical principle, it is a waste of time. But you can practice forms with really deep stances and strengthen your legs, you can practice that same form, and go through it as quickly as possible and improve your speed. You can take the principle and apply it to any form and come through and be physically exhausted, and build your strength, et cetera..

Arthur Gulley Jr:

And that's the key, and I think a lot of people who get down on us, because  Bruce Lee, who's considered by some the greatest, and the man was phenomenal. He had this, he took away cameras, and he felt that it was unnecessary. And that's fine if that's your opinion, but you learned how to first and then you transitioned into your style, you took from everything. And it's funny, I wonder really cracks me up if he developed a lot of combinations, and like, you go through the jeet Kune do book. And it's like, the demands of mine were phenomenal. It's a shame he left so soon, I would have loved to continue his contributions. But if you watch his older videos, and he's doing specific movements, he does the same specific sets. Hey dude, that's what a kata is. 

He took his basic moves, which were from 15 different things, and combined them in certain sets. Okay, that's just what a Kata is, when you look at boxers, they're working combinations, and they'll put three or four different combinations together into a sequence. That's a Kata, you can do boxers, you see them, they go slow-witted, they go fast with it, they go soft with it, they go hard with it, still a Kata. Every day, a series of movements put together, that's all it is. 

When I had the hip surgery, I really couldn't walk through and get it because that was bone on bone. And I was putting it off when taking care of my mom. And I would still try to go to the dojo. And since they would laugh at it, since they just called me hop along. But I was on the mat, but one of the guys and I said let's move around a bit. So he was coming in during all this stuff. And I kept hitting him. He's like, he was stabbed. He says, Wait a minute, that's not a one unsu. And I am like, oh yeah.

As you have to understand when you think of Kata, you're thinking of this traditional formal, it's not, then you think, fine. This, you can't separate the two, you got to your Kata, and you got to see that person coming at you. And you have to learn if I'm in the street, and I gotta move that way. All right, well, Wanzhou teaches me the evasion principle. And it also teaches me to square up on that angle. 

So I can still maximize my power, but it teaches me to lock in place. So if I practice that real fast on the punching bag, it doesn't look like a Kata anymore, because I'm doing it so fast. But if I slow it down, you're seeing that it comes right out of the Kata. 

And that's the one thing since they always say that he says, you can be an amazing fighter, but you're gonna get old, and you're gonna get injured. But if you're a great Kata man, he says, Why do you think you see these 89-year-old masters who will kill you because they are great Kata man because they have mastered the principles of the kata, it's not so much the what the technique,  is the principles behind the technique. And I like your idea that you should do a video about that. You should say, Hey, you want to learn how to do this? yeah, you want to, and then everybody goes, wow.

Jeremy Lesniak:

But they don’t want to do their forms, because they aren't willing to put enough in that they enjoy them. And so they find it boring. So they try to reason and reason why they don't want to do something that they find boring.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Right? You know, backward. I tell everybody, if you want to be effective, I don't mean a sports fighter. If you want to be an effective fighter, someone who's going to survive, you've got to put him back to work. Because you need to know what it feels like to hit something, because of the pungent air. I'm amazed when I punch here.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I've never lost punching the air.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

No man shoes. I've beaten like five or six-year opponents at the same time just by looking at. But you have to punch the bag. I see. It's like it's not just all or nothing. You got to practice your breathing because if you get winded while you're fighting, you don't know how to breathe properly or you have too much air in your body. So when you get hit, you're locked up. Now you're done. 

So you got to know the proper inhalation, you got to know how to activate your blood, you got to know where your tongue goes and breathe. You practice that in your Katas once you master that, then you go working on the back because now you're getting the shock to impact and that's gonna change the dynamic of that breath because now you've got to absorb the kinetic energy of it. And it's like, oh, wait, oh, great. So then you do your cardio. Because again, if you ain't got no gas, cars not gotta go. 

So it's like everyone's trying to generalize, generalize, generalize. If you've got a good hand game, you need a good kicking game. If you got a good kicking game, learn, you need a ground game because fights are going to the ground. Okay. I love jujitsu. I'm unable to really do much until I'm totally healed. But we've got a lot of grappling, and we do a lot of crazy stuff. And I'm like, I'm not ever going to do that in the street but you never know, so learn it. But if I don't know how to, a lot of the jiu-jitsu guys, you talk to some of the MMA guys, some of the best ones have a strong base in traditional martial arts. They have a strong base in boxing and they combined it all into an effective form of fighting for competition. But I guarantee you a lot of these MMA guys, you take them out of their brain, they're still hard course trainers, they know how to adapt. I hate when people say, oh, you just learned how to fight in the rain. No, if this guy is this amazing in the rain, how do you know what he's practicing for the street? Do you know what I'm saying? 

You can't discredit that just because I know some guys who are amazing tournament fighters, which bloomin street, they get killed. Because in their mind, they never took it out of there. Bless you. They never made the transition. We trained for tournaments but then you also train for the streets. 

Now I train my sons and my wife, I don't train them for tournaments, they train for the streets, because they're not going to come into the well one son, he's a brown belt. He's like, I'm not coming in that dojo so don't ask me. So I taught him some stuff. I've got three sons. And there's another one, he likes to do his bases, and he likes to fight. My wife, says I'm not coming to the dojo because I'm not bowing. And I know I'll be kicked out. But we do a lot of back work, we do a lot of grappling. 

I sneak up on her to see what her reaction time is. I work on breathing and dynamic tension with her because s she's the lady she sees weaker sex traditionally. So she needs to know about the body hardening of the position, she needs to know about the nerve cluster, she needs to know these things, where she's not gonna come to the dojo and learn it. So I'll pick and choose but they understand that it's all a combination of things. 

And when you're training, I was watching the video, this really grabbed me. I am a martial artist. And Scott Lawson. He does jiu-jitsu and I'm really learning a lot of principles. He talks about principles. And he put a great video out there and the people were saying that you don't train hard. You got on pads, and this and that. And he was just saying, basically, you got to train.

Another great guy, a friend Brian, he's that I got all these great Tiktok friends at Southern. He just did a great video about that same subject. 

And what I like about he said his whole column, is his whole topic was you, do you. Why are you going to criticize someone who's training in pants because you don't try to pass? Why are you criticizing that? What does it matter? You can't always train to the fullest extent. Because if every time you step into the ring, a train, you're worried about getting hurt, you're not going to learn. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

The average pro-Muay Thai career is something like two years. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

You're not gonna learn. You've got, sometimes you go hard, sometimes you go fast as CNN [0:48:35-0:48:36]. It's hard and soft. But his whole thing was basically you do you he says, but if you disagree with me, we can fight. And I love the way he ended the bet because you got people who are just, oh, yeah, they're gonna pass on our cities, we don't use that, yeah, but you broke up, you can't walk, your hands hurt. And every time you step in, your knowledge is going to be limited because you're not learning how to slip that punch. 

You're learning how to do whatever to keep from getting hit. So you're not learning the subtleties. So, you can keep getting hit, but what about not even having a block? What about learning the movement within the movement? What about filling the void? If you're always going home, you're never going to see all that stuff. One of the things the Master would always say is he was so fast. And he was like, I'm not as fast as you think I am. I just know how to move through body efficiency, and that's something that I don't know in your mind. And when you watch the fighting and in the way, martial arts are gone, everyone's doing this thing and doing that thing. Why do you think that traditional karate has basically become something that people find laughable or so people who are so quick to disdain? Why do you think that's when transitions come in? Do you think it's because of MMA? 

Jeremy Lesniak:

I don't think it's as if I steal from everything I see that we see as whistlekick, traditional martial arts is fine. It's not going away. But you get a few people that are really committed to being loud, to be disparaging, because if you want the most efficient path to becoming to self-defense, it's not traditional martial arts. If you want the fastest path to being safe on the street, it's not joining traditional karate, taekwondo, etc. school.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

It's not.

Jeremy Lesniak:

There’s a lot of other benefits but it takes time. And so those people look at that and they're like, I don't want to put the time in for whatever reason. But they've got to discount it in their mind in some way so they don't have to consider it as an option. It's the same reason people look at what everybody else is doing and they need to cancel it. Because otherwise, it could mean that there's something that they might have to put time into. They might have to become uncomfortable and go take some classes over here or seminars over there to get better at something. Oh, but, they were pads. So obviously, they don't know what they're doing. I'm sorry, show me any other physical pursuit with risk of injury, where anybody is saying, go 100% all the time. It doesn't happen in any pro sports, they're always working on technique and drills. There is no subset that I'm aware of  NFL players, or NBA players saying, to be drilled 100%.

Every practice is just games, that's all we do. We show up, we play games all the time. We never work on anything else. Why would that be? It doesn't make sense in the context of martial arts. But the people who are out there saying these things, they don't have the context, they don't have the time training, they don't have the experience to actually understand what they're rejecting. It's the same way, I don't have kids, but I remember being a kid, you've got kids. Remember, kids, hit like 12 years old. And pretty much anything that is not their way, or what they think is right is stupid and wrong. And you're dumb for doing it or believing it. It's that.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Oh, I'm looking at now 19-year-olds and a 23-year-old, oh buddy. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

But at some point in 10 years or so, all three of them are going to come on go, Dad, you're right., I am sorry.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

It's so funny, they do it now. And they'll say, and I tell my wife because she is wise and I love. She's been putting up with me for 31 years. Okay? So she'll be like, we got to do this, just back off, let him mess up. We realize this combat, and that some of the kids have been doing that, \ but my boys, really keep me humble. And the one thing that's something that you mentioned kids and we talked about ego, I think in a lot of ways. My kids keep my ego in check, especially in terms of being a martial artist, especially knowing what I can do. My kids are not scared of me. They respect me. All I gotta do is look at them. They like it even now when we're coming down there, but I see the two boys, the twins are fine. Say you guys want us to do it? Can I join it? No, no, Dad, no. I'm not even gonna know. You hit too hard. I'm not even gonna hit you again. But you will do some movers. But one of the things that I used to when like all martial art is when you start karate you may want for whatever reason, once you get bitten by the tournament bug, it starts feeling pretty good to go out and do some Katas and get to fight people Like it's okay, I paid 25 bucks not to hit somebody, really? And you win trophies and everything. And you kind of get away from what you started for. 

And my oldest son when he was about four. I've been training for quite a number of years. And I said, Okay, you are ready to start training at the dojo. And he's like, Yeah, I want to go to get to the dojo like you so I can do what you do. So yeah, what is it I do? I thought he was gonna train and protect me. And he says, you go to tournaments, beat up people to win trophies. And I kind of like how I went, what he was like, four to 10. And I said, What do you do?'' He said, Well, Dad, because you always train in your training and then you go to these tournaments, and you beat up people and you come up with trophies. And I thought about that. And I was like, Oh, is that what he sees? In my mind, he's seeing the great sensei but in his little eyes, he said, train hard, beat up people, win trophies, so you know you're good. So that night, I went in, I gathered up all my little trophies and plaques and I threw them up and just threw them out. I've never competed again, I just threw them out. I go to tournaments and I root people on. And if you need help, I'll gladly work on it. But for me, personally, with my personality the way it is, it's easy for me to get wrapped in the thrill of it.

And that's not where I want it to be with my training. That's not what I trained for. I'm trying to be the best version of myself. So for me, that kept my ego in check. When I look in the mirror, I say, Am I someone I'm proud of? But I'm someone my sons are products of. When I train, they know that they have to train, or if I'm doing something, they know that they have to work hard, because I'm working hard, so it keeps your ego in check. Now, on the flip side of that, we had our issue grand nationals this year, and it was really nice. We had it last year too, but it was a little bit tenser with COVID gone, everybody's messed up. And splashing out, this year was a little bit more relaxed, I still have my mask on. I couldn't compete but I was always helping out. And one of the rules at the beginning, since they gathered all the black belts, the primary rule for this tournament was the parents were going to be held accountable for interfering. 

It has become such a problem with parents interfering with a match, or they are so aggressive about their kid just winning, that you got your kid in martial arts, but you want him to learn how to defend himself. You want him to learn humility, you want him or discipline, but you're basically showing him the very behavior that you don't want him to have. So he had to make it. I mean, it was a topic of discussion. It was in the rules. If a parent spoke up out of turn, your kid loses the point. If you spoke again, two points, the third time, you were rejected. Now, what kind of world are we living in when it's becoming so prevalent that the parents' mentality when the killer be killed mentality is so strong that are you forgetting that this is just here? So these kids can have fun and test your skills? Are you forgetting that it is okay to lose? Because if you never lose, you will never know how to win. If all you ever do is win, you will not know what to learn.

Jeremy Lesniak:

A lot of these parents don't know how to lose. They were raised on participation trophies and sports leagues that didn't have winners.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

And I have a problem with participation trophies. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

And so we have this whole episode, ranting this whole participation.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

He believes that students if try hard, you get a trophy. Now, the little kids, he says the fact that they're brave enough to get out here. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Sure.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

And I have no problem with that. But the older ones, he's like, you fight first or fourth place. Okay, that's it. You just train harder next time. And I agree with that, you reward them and you thank them for coming and you boost their confidence. But okay, you showed up to the tournament. Here's the trophy, a big old giant trophy. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

I encourage that behavior.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

We all want confidence, don't we? I understand we want you to never crush a cue. But at the same time, look at the young people of the world today. Are these young people out of control? They're out of control. A lot of them are entitled to their attitude. They think they may own the world, they think they deserve everything. 

How did it get that way? Because basically, you handed everything to me when I was coming up, you have to earn that. If I wanted that toy, I had to save that allowance, that earned, that dude ensures. You had to help be held accountable. In every aspect of life, there needs to be accountability. 

But if we're just giving you stuff you don't get now and not only that you don't get a sense of accomplishment is the best feeling in the world when you do it no matter what it is martial arts, cooking, riding a bike, even if you're a professional booger picker, when you can pick that booger and flick it just so you've practiced it hundreds of times and you've wasted hundreds of boxes of Kleenex. 

That's an amazing accomplishment. Do you know what I mean? But if you've never put in that effort, it won't matter to you. You just blow your nose. I don't care. I deserve to blow my nose. I deserve to flip boogers everywhere. No, that's gross, but.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I've never heard that analogy before.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Well, I was telling my kids that when they were growing up, I always told them I said I don't care what you do in life. You gotta do what you want to do in life. I want you to be educated. You must have an education. You're okay, whether it's school or some kind of trade, you've got to be educated. And so that's a misconception. Education does not necessarily mean books. We're in a shortage of skilled tradesmen because society was sold on this thing that you got to have a college degree and this and then you've got thousands and thousands of college degrees who can't find a job where the infrastructure of the country is collapsing because the tradesmen have just been evaporated.

Jeremy Lesniak:

And trades people can charge pretty much whatever they want and be as busy as they want.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

I just came in and replaced my bathroom faucet but the shower tub thing the shower diverter broke, this is what he did. I tell him to just bring me a piece. He came in, checked it, put his big wrench, he cracked the corrosion, unscrewed it, cleaned it, put the new one on, twisted it back, and tested it perfectly. 10 minutes, $100. You can't walk into any job, we do that. So I guess the whole thing is, I always tell them, I said, understand, I want you to get an education. Do you want to go to college, great, you definitely want to go to college, you're not going to sit at home, you're going to work. But if you're in school, you're not going to work full-time. I came up and I was on my own since I was 18, basically, and it was a struggle. I got to the plant and you're making so much money you forget, I went to school a little bit there, forget it. 

Well, you flash forward 25 years and your bodies break down, you're frustrated with your job, and you don't have any options, education or trade, it just gives you options. And that's what I stress to him. And I tell him I don't care what you do in life. And that's one of the analogies I use. I don't care if you're a doctor, a lawyer, or a professional picker, if you come to me and say Dad, I really want to get into these books, then we're going to research what nasal sprays used to be used, and we're going to research the best hand sanitizer you can get. Because at the end of the day, you have to live your life. And if I'm upset, a lot of times I get disappointed with some good decisions, because I don't understand them. But at the end of the day, it's like it's still your life. And I tell them, It's okay. I don't agree with that, but if you research it and you feel this is what you must do, okay. 

And also, if you mess up, when these kids do stuff, and they know they're going to when they mess up, and they come to me and say they mess up the one thing I never say as I told you, I always take a moment and say, okay, so what do we do now? Because they already know, they messed up, the fact that you're coming to me, telling me, you know, so why am I going to debase you? The same thing to the training, when I look at a lot of martial artists, I look at some dojos. And I visit other dojos and stuff. And I always have a problem with yelling at the kids or debasing the student or being super hypercritical. It was like you said, a white belt coming in. And he's got three or four classes and you're just clamping down on him and crank him down on you're crushing his spirit. Like, dude, is that how you were trained? And if so, that's sad.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Here's one, I believe firmly, we encourage the behavior that we want people to take whatever motivation, we give whatever reinforcement we're giving positive, or negative, is going to dictate the behavior. It's been a rule in a lot of schools for a lot of years. If you show up late, you are punished. So what are we actually telling them? If you're gonna be late, don't show up. so we want them there, right? 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Depends. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

There's a conversation to be had, yes. I bring this up because it's a concrete example, that happens in a lot of schools, right? And if you're 16 if you are driving yourself, and you're like, I'm going to be 10 minutes late, I don't want to get yelled at. I'm just gonna not to go. I'm gonna say I had a bunch of homework to do. But what do we want, we want them in the dojo, we want them training, we want them getting better. And all of our principles, our guidelines, and motivations should encourage training and progress. Much in the same way that you tore your plaques and trophies off the wall because it was, 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

So far though, you gotta have checks and balances, because you can also conversely, influence those negative aspects. If I'm going to be a few minutes late, and I'm going to get yelled at or whatever, and I'm just not going to go. So now what you're saying is, if there's ever a challenge, just forget it and do something else. You can indirectly influence that but you can indirectly influence that negative behavior. If every time a child cries, you give them a toy to show them up. You've indirectly influenced them. So now he's a teenager, and you're like, why won't you because you, whereas if that child cries, and you say go ahead, cry. I'm not giving you what you want.

Jeremy Lesniak:

But there's a time delay, and there's time to let it in. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

I get it. Now I'm going to give you the tools. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

You can't just have a single rule that applies. You've got the kiddos because they're disciplined. You've got the kid who was late because the parent was distracted and got them they're late, and you got to get the kid to sleep because they never get their stuff together on time. You've got the adult who's late because they work three jobs to put food on the table. And sometimes they get out a few minutes late because of whatever, right? And so there are times when the route when blanket rules, which are a lot easier to learn. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

It's a very slippery slope. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yeah. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

And that's something that I think would be a good open forum for a lot of schools to get together and say, well, how do you deal with times? Now, what since a dozen hours are coming up? If you were late? get in a class you get on you do 10 Push-ups and you join a class? That was it. You didn't get lambasted, and you didn't get dogs, since they would talk to you in private. If it was becoming a situation, you may get pulled sighed look, I noticed you've been coming late, what's going on? or he'll pull your parents, okay, now I understand they're coming late, what's going on? It was always done in private. 

But as far as the public acknowledgment, excuse me, if you were late, you knew up, shoot, I'm late, you came right in change that we can do them 10 push -ups on your knuckles, and then you join the class. And that was it. Now, I always thought that was great because you know, if I'm late, there's a consequence. But if I'm late, and I have a reason, they will listen to me and understand why I'm late and I thought that was always a great balance. Because there have to be consequences for tardiness and lateness, we have to instill that it is important to be on time because that's something that has to be ingrained. If you're scheduled for this. And you just say, I'm just gonna blow that off. 

With an ambulance driver, we got there in less than five minutes. But we're not going to let the traffickers let them back. I mean, I know that's extreme, but you can see how the back end easily spirals into that type of behavior. You have to be held accountable, and you have to have discipline. So I guess I do agree. You should not lambaste dogs, and humiliate them. I've never found humiliation to be an effective means of. Humiliation is not an effective means of encouragement. I just think that.

Jeremy Lesniak:

You don't get the best out of people when you humiliate them.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

There are men on the defensive. I'm watching this show now. It's a chocolate war or something. And it's this master chef on here, this guy made a group out of chocolate. He's a master chef. And what I like is when he comes to these people, when they mess up, he comes in, and he'll look at it. And he will point out what you did wrong. But he will also point out everything you did, right, and then he'll say, so the reason this happened is that you missed this part, so next time let's try to take it back here he said, but you did do this. And I love that cuz this guy is amazing. And if he wanted to, like Gordon Ramsay, I always hated that show yelling at people, so you hit a skillet, though you got a skillet at you. But I think that those in authority if you're in a position, you've got to learn how to couch that criticism with a compliment. Yes, I'm going to tell you what you're doing wrong but I'm also going to tell you what you've done right? And 9 to 10, you're going to do 10 things right, only one thing wrong.

Jeremy Lesniak:

And both sides, if your goal, I mean, we're here as martial artists. If the goal of raising younger martial artists is to help them get better, they need both sides. Here's what you're doing right, here's something that you could work on. They just stagnate..

Arthur Gulley Jr:

They do. And you see that you see that in the martial arts world is unfortunately especially like at tournaments where the coaches are going down and they're going hard on one of them, one of my good friends. He's run the team revolution since they asked to come in. I love this. I love to watch it and teach kids when I go to school. 

He's really hard on like strict but he's also like the most compassionate cause he'll say this is alright okay guys hold on to those cakes right there those cakes were so bad. Okay, now guys, I understand that you don't have the energy to understand you've been in school all day. And then you just don't want to look at them but we got to get more spirits because what if I walk on I got to hurt somebody I gotta protect myself. 

So don't you think they may get kicked, right? So he flips that script. He acknowledges all the reasons why you suck. And then he immediately and it's like the response he gets to that is amazing

Jeremy Lesniak:

Because it shows you understand.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

And I love to watch Mr. Adams teach a class, especially the little kids. Because those kids, they're all over the place. And I say, how do you deal with them? Because I was showing a little kid something in their footnotes here, as it says, at what point I said, Are we supposed to be correct with racism? Okay, look, you said this kid is six years old, he doesn't have the motor skills so if you show him the basic movement, and this lets him follow you along if he gets it right, complimented, and as he grows, his mind understands it. And he's built those neural pathways, all of a sudden, he's going to realize, Oh, hey, I don't know how to do that. He says, but if I just blast him right now at six, his little mind is gonna shut down. He's gone. So I'm like, Okay, this is to correct them gently. 

Same thing with the adults. He said, these people now when we were younger that there was it was hardcore, man, I ain't gonna lie, we were hardcore. That's what was used to always say I don't send you to tournaments, I unleash you for tournaments. And that's how it was. But as we grew older, Master Adam. He says you have to evolve. He says these are different times. He says people are training for different reasons, that if you're coming to me and saying, I want to learn this martial art, and you're paying me your money, it is my responsibility to give you a good facility, and to make you feel welcome so that you will learn. 

Instead of every time you walk in the door, you get pounded and pounded and pounded. Now you're trying to go to work, but you're not coming back. He said, If I want to be an effective teacher, I want you to come back. So yes, you're going to be a little sore. But you're going to say I'm sore for the purpose. Because there's fun. He always laughs at me because the blowers go out into the dojo sometimes, like last in the winter, the heater went out, and the heat went in the back. So he shut the back session. As it says, I just leave it oh, bus Mr. Davis, and we even had no he'd have taught it. And he looked, he said, what did I tell you? He said, you have to evolve with the times, people train for different reasons. He says we want you to feel comfortable so that you will learn so that I can teach you effective martial arts so that you will train hard so that you will be able to defend yourself.

Jeremy Lesniak:

You can't learn when it is frostbite. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

So that's what he said. So it's like, in my mind, I'm still Gladiator, but that's why he's sensei. Because he says, yeah, it's okay, when you're younger, you think this way, he says, but every day, you got to elevate your mind every day. Okay, that work, man. But if I want to take it to the level, I got to do this, and I got to do that. And again, he always says, take the ego out of it. And I've got some one of my one of the instructors, there's a big plaque on the wall and back at the dojo. It's got several things, but one of them that really strikes me is this, if you show me once, I may remember it. If you show me again, I may remember it, if you tell me I may remember it, if you involve me, I will learn it. And I'm paraphrasing that. But I like that analogy because if I just show you how to do something, that tells you what you should do. You may lose it. But if I get there with you, and explain it and work the move with you, and a lot of the times when I look at the Tiktok videos and I look at the weird stuff going on. And everybody's screaming at everybody. Everyone's filming people. You get a five-minute video of someone yelling, You don't know what came before that. You don't know what came after that. And then everybody's Karen. Okay, racism does exist. Trust me. I'm a six-foot-three black man in Detroit, Michigan. I know what racism is. But my God. I mean, I've experienced it but at some point, we got to start recognizing that not everybody is racist. Not every black man is a gun-carrying cracked duck. Not every Chinese man is money hungry, whatever. But this whole, as you said, this Tiktok algorithm, it wants to take the worst bits of people and show it. But on the flip side of that, I do have to say it is good to expose some of the behaviors. But what scares me is like where do you draw the balance? How do you find a balance in that? it's good that we can expose a lot of the racism and sexism and classism, but on the other hand, alright, was that really an incident if I don't see the whole incident? Because I guarantee you if you walked in on me and my wife's conversation, sometimes you would think I was an abused husband. But you didn't realize what I did before that to respect that you know what I'm saying? So you didn't get the total pictures. And at that point, you would say, oh, she shouldn't hit you with a skillet. 

So I think we're in a society of Quick fixism or let me show you this sound bites, they call it we're in a society of sound bites. And I think that's what's going on with martial arts, we're in karate bites. Let me show you this, to formulate your whole opinion.

Jeremy Lesniak:

And that's why we do what we do here, with a longer form of conversation. I think the shortest episode we've ever done in an interview was about 45 minutes. Here we are, we're a bit over an hour because that's how long we needed to talk to have the conversation that we wanted to have. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Yeah.

Jeremy Lesniak:

And I'm sure if we released five-minute versions of our episodes, we'd have more lessons, but would they actually be of higher quality, right? I can go to shorter martial arts classes, and cat and checkboxes. I went to 75 classes last week but did I get as much out of this one? Did you have a 90-minute class? Did I actually benefit from my progress?

Arthur Gulley Jr:

I can do three techniques, but did I learn as much as if I did a full kata? So, I don't know, man. As I said, this whole martial art is a way of life for a lot of people, me included. And I guess I just want everyone to always keep an open mind in terms of the benefit of it. But most of all I want my fellow martial artists. So when I say martial art, I don't just mean karate. I mean, to me, martial means war. So any art, any form of practice that is a military base, a warning, basically fighting I call it martial. If we can all just like, come down off of this, who's better, who's the best, and it just started saying, we're all great but we all can learn more. I think that the Tiktok platform is an amazing place. It has the potential to be an amazing place. You have an app where you have someone get up and do this intricate dance, and 50 million people will copy this dance and it's fun, and it's positive. So why can't you use the same thing with martial artists instead of negative trolls and all of that crap, just show a good simple way to move your arm and just do it? Get 50 million people doing that right and then follow it up with good stuff like that. If we could just turn this platform, get the venom out of it. Maybe we could switch the algorithm if the algorithm says hey, the positive stuff is actually doing pretty good. But is that what the world wants? 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yeah, I may wish the answer was yes. I don't sadly, I don't think so. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Are we living in a matrix? Cause you didn't know? We're in a matrix for sure. There's a glitch in it. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

It's a couple of glitches. If people want to follow you, where do they go? Your music you're taking on all that 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Sensei_Gulley. Art Gulley Jr. I have an Instagram account but I do not post it and I do not check it. I don't do anything else because social media does this a lot. So I like to insert I have a YouTube channel. The link is in my TikTok account. And this I have to get out, please people the link to all my music. I'm on all platforms, just Google Art Gulley Jr. and I'm on everything. I did basic jazz techno a couple of wraps. I'm not profane. Check out that music because I got to keep paying for these kids’ college but I will say this my revenue stream out when I check my revenues, it's so weird. My rent, my residuals, and my royalties are coming in from TikTok because other users are using my songs. And I'm like, wow, that's kind of neat. So all my music isn't if you put Art Gulley Jr. in South, all my songs pop up so that's great.

Jeremy Lesniak:

But it's time to produce some music specifically for Tiktok. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Well, Tiktok, if you're listening.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I know I think you can do like, because what it’s got to be like to most of the platforms, one to minutes, two to three minutes. And then just kind of front-load stuff that martial artists could use.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Well, that's what it is. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

The challenge tied into that tune. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

That's a good idea. I've got one song. it's actually about the basics. And it's so cool because Master Adams allowed me to take him and his wife. She was also a master another, my Master Melvin early. They are all talking about the song. And I was like, I was so geek and I always put it out there with Mark, that's a good thing. I say, hey, show me your basics and put this I should do that. That's a very good idea, just to see other people's base. I want to learn more stuff from people. I love picking up information because what I do is when I see something I go right to say, let's just say I will send it the other day. What do you think about that? Sometimes he says, sometimes he's like stop watching that, but that would be good. But just aren't I'm on Tiktok, sensei_gulley.  I don't know if there's a dash in between that it's like you don't know. Tell you what, I'll get up right now. Wait, are we looking up Tiktok?

Jeremy Lesniak:

Can we make sure I turn this unit in before I open it up? Where it is, it is sensei_gulley.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

Since there is an underscore and you'll see my picture because I'm doing this. And the reason I'm doing this is that I'm looking through the keyhole. I'm always, always eager to learn more stuff. And if you sometimes if you look too much, if your eyes are too wide, you're missing the smaller points in life. So sometimes you gotta focus it down. That's why I'm doing it. But  I have to say that, again. I'm overwhelmed that you wanted to talk to me on any subject and I really appreciate it, this was great. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

This was fun. We had a good time. 

Arthur Gulley Jr:

If it is okay, I want to give a couple of shoutouts.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yes, please.

Arthur Gulley Jr:

First and foremost, because the only reason I'm here is that I'm standing on the shoulders of giants. Okay, first and foremost, my Sensei Grandmaster Willie Adams, Grandmaster Eugene Woods, Master Reggie Phillips, Master Burton Maybin, and Master Carl Maiden. I'm just giving us Carl Martin, Master Michael Schaffer, and Master Melvin Early. These are just a few who shaped me. Master Janine Adams.  I want to say thanks to you guys. My family has always been my wife, and my three boys. I won't mention their names because they don't really like social media, me putting them out there. All my crew at my job where I work at the plant, as I always say, to house the pain of Chris and Bill, a big shout out to them to my boss who gave me the day off so I could do this. Thank you. And to my main man. He's one of the gentlemen and he's like a mentor to me. And I told him today he said, did you do it? Are you ready? I said I'm so nervous. He said, just be yourself, you'll be alright. 

So to everyone who's shaped me to say thank you, and I'm a work in progress. We're all working on progress. Don't ever be afraid to try anything. Don't ever be afraid to say that you don't know. And don't ever be afraid to stop learning. Please, people, train hard, train safely. And everybody is good. Jeremy, thank you so much for this opportunity, Sir.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I hope you enjoyed that episode. I had a great time finally getting to have a back-and-forth conversation with our man. Thanks for coming to the show. Lots of fun. I know this isn't the last time we're going to chat. And heck, maybe we can collaborate on some content at some point in the future. Hey, listeners, did you take that? Do you want to do something to help us out, leave a review or share an episode or buy a book or a shirt, or whatever? Don't forget, we've also got training programs at whistlekick.com. And you can even bring me in for a seminar. If that's of interest. Reach out to jeremy@whistlekick.com. If you have suggestions for topics or guests, let us know about them, our social media is at whistle kick. And that's all we've got for now. Until next time, train hard, smile, and have a great day.