Episode 720 - Hanshi Jerry Piddington
Hanshi Jerry Piddington is a martial arts practitioner and founder of the American Karate Academies National Association.
There’s no police in our industry. Zero police. It’s all about the rules. If you play by a specific rules, you can get something done. But the rules change in all the different organizations.
Hanshi Jerry Piddington - Episode 720
Hanshi Jerry Piddington has a martial arts career that spans five decades and has studied with some of the most famous martial artists in the world. His first teacher was Caylor Atkins, a Shotokan stylist. Mr. Piddington received his first black belt from Tom Crites in Shorin-Ryu. Continuing his career, Mr. Piddington trained in Hawaiian Kenpo with Michael Stone, Japanese Goju-Ryu with Chris Armstrong, Kempo with Ed Parker, and Shorin-Ryu with Master Tadashi Yamashita. Mr. Piddington was also a student and friend of O'Sensei Robert Trias, Father of American Karate.
Grandmaster Robert A. Trias took notice of Hanshi Piddington and invited him to create the first American style of karate in the United States. On May 2, 1972, Mr. Piddington was declared the Headmaster and Founder of American Open Style Karate under the USKA sanctified charter, established by Master Trias, which was internationally ratified on May 30th, 1975. In February 2000 Mr. Piddington was declared Headmaster of American Shorei/Shorin Karate by Hanshi John Pachivas, Grandmaster of Shuri-ryu Karatedo, and was awarded his 10th degree black belt. Grandmaster Jerry Piddington founded American Karate Academies National Association (AKANA) in 1976.
Hanshi Piddington enjoys acting in live theatre and stage combat. He has been a fight choreographer and stunt man in several major motion pictures such as Killer Inside Me, A Reason to Kill, Night Realm, The Quest starring Jean-Claude Van Damme and Roger Moore, and BloodSport II starring Daniel Bernhardt, Pat Morita, and James Hong. He is currently filming a documentary and reality show based on his adventure to Cambodia called, When Two Masters Meet.
In this episode, Hanshi Jerry Piddington talks about his legendary career. Listen to learn more!
Show Notes
For more information, check out Hanshi Jerry Piddington’s website at akana.org
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Welcome, you're listening to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio episode 720. My guest today, Hanshi Jerry Piddington? My name is Jeremy Lesniak show host and whistlekick founder, where everything we do is in support of the traditional martial arts. If you want to know more about what we're doing go to whistlekick.com It's a place to find out all the stuff that we're doing and the stuff we work on. It's also an easy place to find our products. Yeah, we make and sell stuff. And the code PODCAST15 is gonna save you 15% on the stuff that you find over on that store. Now, the show has its own website, whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. The show has come up twice a week for many years. And why don't we do it? Well, our goal here at whistlekick is to connect, educate and entertain the traditional martial artists of the world.
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So, today's guest, if you know his name, you know everything I'm about to say. But if you don't know, Hanshi Jerry Pennington, you may not know that this is a man who has been around who has had the opportunity to not only train with them connect with, but compete with, and in many cases defeats some of the absolute greatest martial artists that we've ever not only had on the show, but talked about on the show. This is a man who is threaded into the history of modern martial arts. And I had so much fun talking to him. What a fun guy. He's the best seriously. And I can't imagine you're not going to enjoy this episode. There was laughter, there was great storytelling. And I just think it was the best. So there we go. Hanshi Piddington. Welcome to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio.
Jerry Piddington:
All right, thank you for inviting me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Of course, of course, I'm glad you're here. You know, you've been doing this for a little while. And you've met and connected with and trained with and competed with, you know, if we were to make a list, it would probably be easier to say who you hadn't, because it's a long list. But then I find the longer I spend training and doing this show for me, it comes back to why not? Not what, not who, not when, but why. And that's where I'd like to start today. Why do you continue to involve yourself in the martial arts?
Jerry Piddington:
Well, that's kind of a loaded question. Absolutely. I think that we're all on a journey. We all have our own journey. And we select that journey by virtue of our decision that we make along the way. And it's kind of important to see what you're receiving back by virtue of what you're doing and the decision making that you're doing. If you're getting something back for your endeavor for your journey, then it's easier to move forward, because you're receiving the benefit of your own journey. The explanation is pat yourself on the back. Enjoy what you do, know yourself, help others and serve others and you're in good shape. And that by itself lets you move forward and continue your journey.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So if we take that and we kind of look at your life and martial arts in reverse, when were you aware of that investment? Starting to pay off? It doesn't mean some might argue pays off day one. I think most people would say it takes at least a little bit of time. When were you first aware that investment was paying some dividends for you.
Jerry Piddington:
I was about 12 years old. And I was setting this Japanese style of karate or participating in a shotokan class in Long Beach, California. And I continued that training there for a couple of years. And then our family moved to another place. And I continued my training in boxing with guys like Joe Bo and Jerry Quarry, and those guys in Southern California. And then we moved. I got married, and I continued my studies in Orange County, California. I studied with Robert Trias, and the man who founded karate in the United States and trained with Mike Stone, who was Priscilla Presley's second husband, I guess, I guess they're calling Mike was that Hawaiian boy, his teacher was Herbert Peters and I ran his Los Alamitos school for a while and I had a teacher also named Tom crites, who was in the same family as the US gay Robert Trias Hulen Willis I worked with him for a while Chris Armstrong, I worked with him for a while. I had still had teachers in different styles, because I was a very firm believer that not any one style was the right style and that any one style was the correct style to train in.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That was pretty uncommon back then, though, wasn't it? Very. So where did that buckin of the trend come in? Because you mentioned must have caught some grief from others rolling.
Jerry Piddington:
So well, back in the late 60s, middles 60s. There was Chuck Norris Head of School in Torrance, California and El Prado, St. Mike Stone had his school over in Los Alamitos, Phillip Morales had a good school over there. Bruce Lee was training in San Fernando Valley. I had a small school in Anaheim, California, and [00:06:06-00:06:08]. And that family had some schools there and in the valley. And we would all get together on a Wednesday night or certain week and fight each other and have fun and trade material and, so there were representatives of different styles at that time.
And all the way from the Kung Fu from the Wing Chun of Bruce and style. Also out of the Costas was there too. So those styles were all mixed for fighting and Wednesday or Thursday night at somebody's school. There was nobody famous yet. And so I got it in my mind that I was not going to stay with one specific style. So I started to create what is called the American open style. And I worked with those who went back east and was one of the first fighters to travel from the West Coast, to the east coast and actually live in the east. went to Baltimore, Maryland, Richmond, Virginia, Charlotte, North Carolina, and taught there for many years. But while I was in Richmond, Mr. Robert Trias asked me, “Jerry”, he says what we want to do is to get our ranks are two certifications but we don't know which system of study you got. Because I had studied the sure with him. The short interview with Mike Stone and the kempo and the shotokan with Kyle Adkins and their goju is Chris Armstrong. So I just said Mr. Tria sets American karate. And that was in 1970.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What did he think of that? Was he okay with that?
Jerry Piddington:
Well, to authorize rank, you got to give me a manual. You got to show me what you're doing. So I worked for two years and put it all on paper. And I sent it to him and he sent me a charter for American open style karate. And ever since then, I have a blanket with that organization and his successor was John for Pachivas in Florida. And Mr. Jennings knows him well. And he gave me a charter for the short Shōrin-ryū karate. So I have two charters, one for American open style karate, and one for short in Shōrin-ryū. And that took many years, many many years. So I have 14 schools right now that are all part of that American open blanket. And some of them have created their own styles, their own systems of study, because it is all American now there's just no purists out there anymore. Not even in Okinawa, Japan, are there purists anymore.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I agree with you, I suspect some, some might disagree. I think there are people who don't understand the concept of influence?
Jerry Piddington:
Well, they're locked into the, to the, to the thought that this is a traditional art. And really, it's already evolved way past traditional. I've been teaching the same material in my style for over 40 years. And the rule of thumb and all arts are if you teach something for 30 years, it is traditional. At the end of the third decade, it became traditional. So that's where I come from on that thought. There is no pure form of martial art.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So if there's no pure, traditional, no real old, traditional, what are your thoughts on people getting worked up? In discussions on that subject?
Jerry Piddington:
Oh, I think that's a really good subject. I mean, if you go to New York City, and you watch a guy do, let's say, he does a standard kata, like, we'll say bullseye, that's in every system. Okay, it won't be the same in LA as it is in New York, it won't be the same as Dallas, Texas, in Flint, Michigan, it won't be the same. There'll be different movements. You can get a grandmaster from Okinawa over here and do Shōrin-ryū, kata, and then another Grandmaster from the city of Naha, or tomorrow, stay in Okinawa and have them both come over here. And they're going to be different also. So Kata is a pre-described movement in the application of self defense. There are boom chi or the understanding of the kata. What do you do when you perform your pot, though? What are you doing? What is happening? And that's what it is. So he's a tshirt through the evolution of martial arts, interprets those boom chi, those hidden movements in a different manner. A lot of them are manipulations.
I have a student, Alex Stevens who's working on just mean, manipulation goddess, a bone breaking like Lulu or risk techniques, armbars chokes, sweeps leg locks because the interest in martial art has gone towards the grappling and towards jujitsu from the Gracie brothers. So that's also part of that evolution of that growth in the martial arts. I mean, years ago, karate school didn't have any ground techniques. Almost every karate school has ground techniques for him. So it's all American, okay, it's not. You can't say, Well, I teach Jeet Kune Do. Well, I teach this and I teach that that's fine. But call it what it is. It's an American system of study from all the volumes of material that we have to go to get in every style. I mean, when you sit down and do a book report on how a butterfly metamorphosis happens, you're gonna study 30 or 40 different books, and get the gist of what's happening.
And that's what martial artists do. I have some students here in Oregon that have their own system, just study now, and I've been watching them for 30 years. I was out there like, say, a white belt yellow belt test 30 years ago. They're putting together their own material from the study of all forms of art. And believe me, there's a lot of beautiful artists out there that are young bucks in their 30s 40s and 50s that are putting together material. It's just awesome. As good as any master from China or Japan or Okinawa, or Asia or Thailand, or, I mean, I traveled to two. I want you. I like studying art, especially martial arts. So I don't know if you've ever heard of this. The art of [00:14:15-00:14:16]. Have you ever heard of it?
Jeremy Lesniak:
No. Let's see. There you go. Tell me more.
Jerry Piddington:
Okay, [00:14:23-00:14:26] is a warrior. And they're from Cambodia. They were around during the anger what? Which is a 10 square mile tempo that they found, you know, in the early 1900s. And there are drawings on the temples of these fighters. They were [00:14:50-00:14:51]warriors. And how did they fight in those days when they had elephants in the princes would stand on top of the elephants right. And yeah, and they would be in there with all their [00:15:00-00:15:01]. And the only way you could get to them was to kill the elephant, let them fall off the elephant and you could kill them right? Well, the Bogota warriors protected the legs of the elephants. That was their job. And when [00:15:15-00:15:16] died, we got speared or cut or seybert or whatever. Another one went right in front of his place. Behind the album was a tribe of [00:15:25-00:15:26] warriors. And I wanted to, I wanted to learn about that art. So my wife helped fund myself and some other people.
And we went, went to Cambodia. You can look it up on Google, when two masters meet, look it up, you'll see it. It's small, we're gonna make a documentary about it and couldn't get the rest of the funding, but it's a good eight minutes. So I filmed well, and those warriors still exist over there. When the [00:15:58-00:15:59] came over there, of course, they killed millions of people. And they ended all their educational processes.
Anybody that could read, they just shot him or whatever. And they emasculated the whole whole country and made him farmers. Well, there are a few people who kept the arts alive over there. And I went to those villages five or six years ago. And I slept in a little hut with [00:15:25-00:15:26] warriors and met some of them and there's a teacher over there, his name is Kim Sun. And I met him and we did this little clip called when two masters meet. So that material, that ancient art bow guitar, is a precursor to the Muay Thai.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I was wondering if you could…
Jerry Piddington:
Yeah, that's where the Asian Muay Thai, and some Chinese boxing came from that. Okay, so it's all a big basket. And inside that basket is knowledge. And when you jump in that basket, you better be prepared to not be closed minded. You better be prepared to have your open mind the way and learn whatever you can, because it's all good.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So when you went over there, you know, it sounds like you spent more than a little bit of time. Yeah. Did you learn anything that you took back and replaced or added?
Jerry Piddington:
A lot about elbows and knees strikes, and inside blocking and outside blocking? I learned a lot about how to cover it and it was a gorgeous experience. They learned from me because I took some weapons over there like the mountain Mikiko sorry, and the psi and they hadn't seen that. So we shared information, which was good.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, I would imagine their traditional weapons didn't involve any metal.
Jerry Piddington:
Oh, yeah. Some steel. Oh, like swords, okay. And they use guards. They have bamboo. And at the end of the bamboo, they have spears that they shaved on the bamboo. So they can punch with spears, because it was strapped to their arm with bamboo. Cool, all kinds of all their legs have padding, so they can't be hit while guarding the elephant's feet. They were as certain as their own.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I will have to enjoy it. Enjoy it. I'm gonna guess that wasn't the first time you made an immersion. You know, as you're talking about grabbing all these instructors and doing all these things, was there? Well, because you were competitive focused is the right way to describe it. But competition was important to you for at least a period of time. And from what I understand of competition in that era, from talking to others on the show, there was a desire to find things that others were not doing. So you could have a competitive advantage. Were you digging that stuff up? Did you? And this isn't a great question, because I don't have the context to ask the question specifically, but it's an inkling that you were hunting down stuff decades ago. Similar in a similar way that you're you weren't about Bogota warriors.
Jerry Piddington:
Okay, so that your question really is techniques involved with competition? Yeah, you've all been in those techniques. That's really what you're saying?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think so.
Jerry Piddington:
Well, okay, let's go with individuals in the martial arts during the formative competitive, competitive era. Okay. Let's go with Chuck Norris. Sure, since he's very famous, you know, um, He did a spinning back kick in the early 60s that everybody was just in, garbage out. No one could throw a spinning back kick as good as Jojo. I mean, it's good as he chucked it. So that became his trademark, his piece of the pie. Let's go with Joe Lewis. Joe Lewis is a great fighter. I fought him twice. So I know his abilities right? Well, Joe was quick off the gun. He did a backfist to say Seiken. And his backfist was the fastest of most any competitor in the world. And so his trademark was the backfist.
And let's go with Mike stone. Mike Stone had a round kick that they said was devastating. It was impossible to block. Bill Wallace had what they call a flip kick or four forward leg round kick that was still the fastest of all the planet, right? So competitors these days didn't just work on all the material they had to but they isolated their training to work what's best for them. Okay. And that transcended in the sport. I had what they called a reverse punch that was dynamite. And Anna really round kicks with they say you couldn't really see it, but you could. But I thought people like at sea to do a list would be crazy. Ron Marchini, John Natividad plus one from New York. These are guys that were right in the very front row of the early 60s in late 60s and 70s. I fought him again in Pennsylvania. I fought Joe Corley in Atlanta. I beat him too. I only lost some of the last six matches in total income sport karate. That's it? Wow. Okay. When I played, I won with Pennsylvania State Champion, North Carolina State Champion, California State Champion, Oregon State Champion, Washington State Champion, national champion and top 10 rated fighters in the world.
I mean, I was good at the competitive part of it. Because I wanted to do that. I wanted to learn these specific techniques from these guys we had just worked out with that we're not famous yet. Sure. And, and that's what I think youth wants to do today. They want some competition, they want to fulfill that, they need to compete and feel disciplined and do all the aesthetic qualities of martial art. They really want that. And a lot of schools are giving that out. Now, of course, there's a lot of charlatans out there too. But, but, but I really believe that it's the sport of karate pushed forward. The techniques pushed forward the growth of martial art style conscious people kind of went out during the late 70s and 80s. It was almost gone in the 90s. It was all conglomerated even today, you've got these people that want to go to the Olympics. They got to be a member of the WKF. But I don't believe in that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't think that's right.
Jerry Piddington:
The problem we've had with making it universal is that no, they don't get together. All the simpler systems still don't get together. We've been fighting that for 60 years in America.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Do you think that's inevitable? Can that change it?
Jerry Piddington:
Now there's no police in our industry, zero police. You could go to whisk Amina college and take the karate course and train there for three years. Were there to open a school down the street and call it whatever you want. There's no police. So consequently, that throws a lot of monkeys in the round. I mean a lot of wrenches in and a monkey wrench. Yeah. So anyway, that's what I feel about the sport. The Sport was beautiful and still is a beautiful art. We have a league up here in the Pacific Northwest called kaizen. And that means to move forward with authority of course, it's all about the rules. If you play by specific rules, you can get some done but the rules change in all the different organizations so yeah, there's no hope.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know, when people bring up that subject, this idea that because we don't have a single governing authority across martial arts, you know, there are, there are certainly downsides there. But I look at it and I also see a tremendous amount of upside. If there had been some kind of governing body, would they have ever acknowledged what you started doing decades ago with your own style? Would that have been suppressed?
Jerry Piddington:
Your bodies, the governing bodies at that time that that style came into being, was the largest governing body in the United States at that time yet, United States Karate Association by Robert Atreus. When he passed away, believe you me? Excuse my expression. Yeah. And I think that when Mr. Parker the organization, when he passed away, I think that same thing happened. Because our forefathers tried to change what came to the United States through the Polynesian, Hawaiian, Asian, Chinese. Okay, now in Korean, because we changed what they brought. It was chaotic. But I believe what you just said a few minutes ago, though, and that's that, you know, there's an upside to this. Because the qualities that are invested in all martial arts study, have weathered the storm, kind of like the principles of the Bible.
They're there, you gotta go get them, you got to find them, you got to use them, you got to develop them, but they're there. So in the schools that I service, in the schools that I associate myself with, they all have those principles. And if as long as those principles are taught within nature, that Dojo or that studio, or that gym, or that club, whatever they call it, as long as those aesthetic qualities and those principles exist within the nature of their curriculum, I'm happy about it. Because you're, you know, and that's what you're talking about as the upside. Yeah. I mean, you take some of these guys that do MMA and, and UFC, and they look, some of them look like fishing lures, they got a piece of jewelry in every orifice of their body, you know? I mean, there are certain limitations, I think that you need to live by our criteria. And I think that the downside is it creates a monster, the upside is it creates great people.
So where's that, where's that line? That we, and I think that's within our hearts, you know, and what we think and how we act and what our posture is, in regards to the students and practitioners of a specific martial art.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When I think back to my original instructors, I started training when I was really young, in the early 80s. And some of the earliest conversations that I remember, hearing, you know, and this certainly set the tone for who I am as a martial artist now, and the fact that this show exists and other similar things. I remember a conversation about rank, you know, we would go to competitions, and we, this dojo training, we were typically slow to promote compared to everybody else. And so it would lead to conversation. Well, what is a blue belt? What is a green belt? You know, what, where is that standard?
And, you know, to their credit, my instructors, I feel, were decades ahead of their time to say, you can tell, you can look at someone you can see how they're training who they are, whether or not they have their belt on, you can look at it. If you've been training a while, you know, in seconds, what rank that person is. And it took me a long time to kind of walk enough of my own path to come around and see that and what I'm bringing that up because I'm speculating, you know, you're talking about different schools that you oversee training different things in different ways. But there's something that is universal that you're watching for in each of them. And I suspect that that is along those lines.
Can you talk about what it is you're looking at? When you look at these, you put a number on it, I forgot what it was 1414 schools doing things differently. But there's got to be stuff there that you're looking at and you're saying this has to be there or that I can't be there. What are those universal elements?
Jerry Piddington:
Okay, one of my members invited me to their school a few weeks ago. I had just come back from the east and was running seminars in four different schools. And when I got back the very next week, I had to go teach a class at one of our schools. And so, I asked, the teacher said, What do you want me to teach? He said, anything you want? So I chose the basics. Okay. So when you go to any martial art school, whether it be jujitsu on the ground, judo, Aikido, any of the fine arts, any of the hard arts, any of the soft arts? Where you live is the basic movement. And what winning football? Where did they get it? What did they look at? Can you run well? You have good balance. Can you catch the ball? Can you throw the ball? Can you block, can you tackle, those are the elements that you have to master to be a great football player. In karate, and martial arts studies, you have to be able to block Well, punch well, all your basic stances have to be good foundation, your hips, your bone structure all have to be in alignment like the dragon. So if you hate your elements of basic body dynamic is good. You can go to any art you want and learn. You can go from one to another. But I understand what you say. I could watch somebody on the floor for two minutes and know how much time they got on the floor. Okay, how many hours do you have on the floor?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Me?
Jerry Piddington:
Yeah. How many hours? On the floor?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't know. Many.
Jerry Piddington:
Is it 1000? Far more? Okay, so 2000?
Jeremy Lesniak:
More? I've never I've never thought about it in this way.
Jerry Piddington:
So, think about is it 10,000?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Next year is 40 years.
Jerry Piddington:
So, okay, so…
Jeremy Lesniak:
2,3,4000 Somewhere in that range.
Jerry Piddington:
Okay, so they say after you do a technique 10,000 times, there you have it in body memory. And you will never forget it. Like, you know, this typing and all that stuff. And it's true. All right. So how much time each martial artist has on the floor dictates how well and how much he knows in his body and his mind and in his spirit. So you get these guys who go for four years, five years make their black belts, six years, seven years maybe. And they quit. Again, I've had students do this, they come back to two, maybe five years later, six years later. And one year they're right back where they were. Because of their body memory, their basics were good in the beginning. The worst thing that a person can do is to train people with weak basics.
You can see somebody wearing a black belt in the clouds even given to us in Kusadasi. Or they can even get into a [00:33:31-00:33:32] and keep their knees out on their back, straightening their hips up. They can't even do it. Their forward knee is not bent, their back leg is not straight. Okay, their shoulders are tight and they're not. They're not relaxed. Okay, so those are the signs of bad martial arts versus good martial arts. And a person has trained and couldn't really see it. Okay, so my, my best thing about that is know your basics. They're thrown out there especially in the competition, though there's that guy's a good fighter, juicy. Yeah, what a strong punch he has on that bag. They put him out there and he gets knocked out. Because he doesn't do any footwork. You know, I mean? So the point is that the basics to me are the key element to all martial arts.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I agree. Hey, Rick. Oftentimes when people talk about competition today versus competition in the past, yeah, they will point to the addition of protective equipment and perceived differences in acceptable level of contact. And some folks who were around then will say, you know, this, this was the better way to go. Some folks will look at now and say yes, but look how many more people are participating. What are your thoughts on that dichotomy?
Jerry Piddington:
Wow, that's a whole hour conversation right there. I mean, I was there the first time they used the safety equipment, you know, we fought in bare knuckles. We had control, we were supposed to stop with maximum power. You know, it's very difficult. That's, to me, more of a purist attitude towards martial art. That didn't last long in America. It probably lasted until Mike Stone fought a tiny Chuck Norris spot. Delgado and Madison Square Garden, and I thought there was a guy from California. What was his name? He was a bad guy. He had a gold tooth and I knocked it out of his mouth. What is that guy's name? I can't remember. So when they started making more contact without the past, it didn't work. It doesn't work. Pat Johnson from the Karate Kid he tried so hard during those formative years of 68/69 to Mike Stone in checking them develop the four seasons and Mr. Trias was trying to do it in Indiana at the Grand nationals and Aaron Banks was trying to do it in New York. It just didn't work.
In June, he came up with these pads. Safety kick hands have to kick feed and pretty soon they had the head gear. Okay, so now you unleashed a bunch of monsters. Yeah, guys, like every daddy monster, man. Right? Ross Scott. They were pounders men, they just put them gear on. Just come forward, just pounding. All the punches didn't look like this anymore. They look like this. Right? It looks like this anymore. So the techniques suffered. The quality of movement suffered. The integrity of the movement suffered. And the sport went forward. And then Joe Lewis. He started studying some boxing. Oh, yeah. Jeff Smith. I wrote a Jeff Smith check one day for $10,000. in Charlotte, North Carolina.
At the park center, he fought one of my light heavyweights called [00:37:52-00:37:54] for the light heavyweight championship of the world just before the PKA the transition, by the way, I was with Joe Corley, you know hotel and in New York, and we wrote the rules for the PKA together in a motel room. I see him in print and it's in print. It's in print. So those elements such as the sporting aspect and the transition from early days, middle days, 80s, 90s. Now we have bare knuckle stuff going on in the world. Now do we get the UFC? To me it is wonderful, I mean, I like it. I like it. I don't enjoy a lot of the matches. But I liked the concept. But in sport, karate, it's all about the rules. And if the rules are this, you fight this way.
So during that time that you're talking about the transition from one the pads to full contact to Joe Lewis to kickboxing. There was no greater fighter in my opinion than this kid. It was from California and he fought. I was the color common commentator at that in Las Vegas. Who's the boy that was? Was Bill Wallace, of course. But the guy who fought was one of the yearAikido, family member Rodriguez, Blinky Rodriguez. That's what it was. That was the greatest fight I ever saw.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What made that come? Oh, god, why is that one above everything else?
Jerry Piddington:
Because the techniques were still karate and boxing mixed together. And they were with technique. They were with value. They had fluidity. The stances were good. Everything was good about that fight. I really thought [00:39:52-00:39:56]. But I talked to the red fox after that, because he was there. He said, Boy, those guys are great. And actually you got that right, sir. That was one of the best fights I ever saw in my life. Like you, Rodriguez and Bill Wallace. Another one was their thrill in Manila. Jeff Smith fought down there. Jeff wins the greatest kickboxers martial artists of all time. He really is. That's really a great one. Yeah, absolutely. But I didn't mind right now checking. Because it was moving our art forward. It was moving to our Ford, we spent about $190,000 on that production. But that's the sort, you know. And that and that's, that's the evolution of it. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Is it still moving forward? Is the sport side of things still moving forward? Or has it?
Jerry Piddington:
Well, there's little leagues all over the country, there's been [00:40:53-00:40:55] for so many years. TCT has it down here in the south right now. We're trying it up here in the Pacific Northwest with Kaizen. I think it'll be around for a long time. But it will never be united. Because we've been trying to unite since 1964.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What's holding that back? Ego? It's my answer to every question.
Jerry Piddington:
I'm right. You're wrong. I mean, that kind of stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's the rare chance where I think Eagle might not be involved. It's money.
Jerry Piddington:
Yeah, well, that's a secondary value of what it is. You know, I wished I had every dollar I invested in martial arts. I wish I did, but I don't. So you know, I'm comfortable with my five 50 million. I'm happy, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
A number of the folks who have been on the show, from your era, have spoken very passionately, about history, about knowing history and the importance of understanding where we come from. Do you fall into that camp as well?
Jerry Piddington:
I do. I mean, I know where my bread was buttered. You know, and I mean, and I give thanks to that. And I, it's clear in my association and association called American karate academies National Association. And I say we have 14 members, and they pay yearly dues. And they have events that they produce. And we're all on the same page, most of the time. We didn't allow ourselves to get involved with the escalation of non productivity in the schools, we are productive. We'd cause aesthetic qualities in our dojos. And that's our priority. So money is not the not the goal, although money is needed to fund everything that you do. So, you know, I've had 16 karate schools in my life, and they all did well. And money wise, they all did well. But yeah, it's very difficult to keep the money out of it. That's a big win for a lot of people. You know, and they force their own card. In the end, though, and also the ones with ego, they forced their cards in the hand. Also, I can't even tell you how many people I know that have tried and failed. Because they were greedy. Because their egos were more important than the arts. There's a lot of them.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, it's…
Jerry Piddington:
Hard. I mean, I can't complain about oh, my. See how many years I've been doing this now. Since I'm 78.
Jeremy Lesniak:
66?
Jerry Piddington:
So that's how many years I've been kicking and punching?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, I'm fine.
Jerry Piddington:
And I'm just about most of the older people with the younger people. But a lot of the young young people, I don't even know, you know, don't even know their name. But you name one person from 1960 and 1990. And I'll know for sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When you talk to others from that era, because you know, I brought up [00:44:46-00:44:48] and you said you guys talk. I imagine you talk to others too. What are you guys talking about? Sure, there's reminiscing. But are there more you talking about what's going on today?
Jerry Piddington:
Okay, have you heard of Roy Kurban?.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Jerry Piddington:
Nice Guy, federal judge, Texas. I talked to him a few days ago. He's having a celebration I can't go to because I have a family commitment. But he and I are good friends. You know Jim Butin just got three books out right now all about sports to them about sport karate. He's from Texas. How about Pat Burleson? Okay, well, Jim Butin just took the overall Pat Burleson thing because Pat just died, you know? So Jim is the inheritor of Mr. Burleson. And I just got a phone call from him yesterday. And he wants to go fishing with me in Oregon sometime. But I talked to my teacher in the Philippines, Mike Stone quite often too.
So we talk to each other, just like when I'm talking with you or friends, you know, we've weathered the storm. We beat the battle, where we've got our flag up here and we won. And that's the most important thing: were you satisfied? Did you make a difference? Is your legacy gonna be around for a while? And yes, mine is and yes, I did. And I'm happy with that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let's go all the way back. This is a question that usually comes up early in the show but I like when it ends up lingering on it. Why did you start training?
Jerry Piddington:
Because I was a weak punk.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That’s the best answer we've ever had so honest
Jerry Piddington:
Yeah, I come from a large family of six brothers and three sisters. And I'm in the middle so I made sure I was the king of the hill pretty quick. Love it. Yeah. But I balked for a little bit too you know, some Golden Gloves boxing and, and I've always loved contact sports. So it was just right up my alley. It was a wonderful thing. You know? And it still is if they had an over the hill gang fight right now where you could go for 32nd rounds I joined.
Jeremy Lesniak:
A few weeks ago, we aired an episode with Ron Van Cleef.
Jerry Piddington:
Oh, I just got off the phone with him last week. Did you?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. And so when you talk about you know, guys are out there still doing it.
Jerry Piddington:
You see a blue belt now in jujitsu? What are you doing wrong?
Jeremy Lesniak:
We, you know, that I was talking to him. And then I think it was later that day, I talked to somebody else. And you know, I'll be as vague as I can. So it can't go back to which episode what person that was. But we ended up with people on the show. Who you know, say oh, you know, if I was younger, I would try BJJ. I love it. You know if, you know if I was 10 years younger, I'd compete again and you know, then there should be Doshi. Van Cleef just, like, go as hard as I can.
Jerry Piddington:
So my dad, he's in his 80s I know that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know, I still wouldn't want to mix it up with him. I mean, he would still smash me.
Jerry Piddington:
You know, it's really interesting. You know, a lot of old timers are turning out right now to people that have been their whole life in martial arts. And they're doing so well. They're dropping like flies, though. Because it's their age, you know, our age. The average age for an American human male is 74 years. And I've got to beat by four right now. So I'm happy, you know. Yeah. But my friend [00:48:55-00:44:57]. In the east just recently. Pat Burleson was a really nice guy. He was the one of the very first karate competition you know, he's passed away. Is just dropping like flies. But again, going back to what we were, who do we thank you now. And I have students that thanked me all the time. I have women that call me and say thank you, you saved my life. These techniques saved my life over here. I have parents grandparents call me and say, Well, you my child would not have been doing this would have been doing that. You know, so the gratitude and the and the perks you get from making it past 74 are pretty good.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, I have this theory that it's when we slow down. That's when we start to die. You know, I've got time. I've got a few decades before I hit that 74 mark. But a lot of that theory comes from the time that I've spent with Bill Wallace. You know, it does. doesn't take more than five minutes out on the floor with him at a super foot seminar to recognize there's a man who's just gonna keep going. Yep. And he's still bringing in the energy in a way that few of us ever did at any age.
Jerry Piddington:
I'll tell you a story about Bill Wallace. Story. Yes, please. Okay, so there was a guy named Craig Green, who had a tournament down there in Tennessee. And Bill was going to the university. He got his degree there in Kinesiology. And I went down there for the tournament, and now I fought some guy from Florida, the Panhandle in Florida. And he broke my jaw. The referee said break, I turned around, he grabbed my shoulder. And here was, you know, fair enough. And I had to go to the hospital. So Bill Wallace took me to the hospital. Bill, good friend. We were good friends. Yeah.
And so he said, Jerry, the guy the doc said they want to do surgery on you right now. I said no, just having a bandage at all. Time I thought in my head, and I'll go when I go back to Richmond, I'll have my own doctor perform the surgery. So okay, they gotta but they gotta give you some drugs. The pain is too great. Yeah, no bill goes. Okay, so Bill took care of me to the hospital. back from the hospital. In the motel room that night took care of me. I'm forever grateful that he did that. Even man we went to the after party because I had those morphine on me and I didn't care.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, with a broken jaw. Yeah, we forget what I said before you guys were a different breed. You know, I don't think there's an after party. After you know, pick any big martial arts competition these days where, you know, somebody slips their jaws broken. And they're showing up at the after party. I don't see that happening today.
Jerry Piddington:
We're a pretty regular crew, aren't we? Oh, Bill has more stories. I got more, I got all guys. I gotta just miss the story. I got Joe Lewis stories. I got a story from Mike stone. I got a story on Chuck Norris. I got the story out of all these guys, man. I'm gonna have to go write a book. And tell the truth. Right?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I would love a Joe Lewis story. I spent the weekend with someone who trained.
Jerry Piddington:
Okay, so Joe was making this movie about the Tiger something tigers in LA. It was pre 1970. So it's around 68 or 69. And he was living in an apartment. And he invited me up there we're gonna work out and he was really fastidious about his appearance. No one hair had to be, you know, in place, the best hair, you had to add its color had to be mandatory. One quart couldn't be longer than the other had to be exactly the same length. So, his face was immaculate. So we woke up the first morning and he's in the bathroom and he's putting his face in the sink or hot water. And there's two sinks in his bathroom because it's a Hollywood deal. He said I want to teach you how to take care of your face Jerry.
So okay, so he says, do what I do. So we're not our faces down in the sink and pick him up and he's got to like, go. And, you get it all done, you know, and you stick your face back in there. But I wasn't putting my hand in the sand in the little jar. I was just pretending he said and he had his eyes closed. He was doing all this. You know, and I wasn't doing it. And then in the end he goes he didn't do any of that damn, so did you and I said no sir. I'm not gonna. I'm not a I'm not a little girl taking care of my face. And assaulted him so badly. I call it little girl. So my wife and I did this many years ago. So my wife and I are in there. They're giving me a roast in North Carolina. And Joe was one of the speakers at the roast.
And we had a great time at the roast. Joe Corley, Howard Jackson and a lot of great old people. Bob Wall was there. They were roasting me right away and so the next morning we're in the restaurant of the hotel. My wife and I are sitting at the table and Joe, you know he was a part of your to do. So, he comes in and his hair looks like an explosion in a Mattress Factory, right. And he's sitting in the booth with that boy that does karate college. So I walked up to Joe and I said “Joe, as did you hear it looks like an explosion in the Mattress Factory man, take care of yourself”. So I was always one of those guys who was able to, to tease and joke with Joe and he got mad as hell at me. But now I want to fight you.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I love it.
Jerry Piddington:
Yeah, Joe Lewis, one of the greatest one of the greatest.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. Sadly, I've never met him. You know, most of my knowledge that's out there.
Jerry Piddington:
Who's been your favorite martial artist in the past?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I've spent the most time with Bill and he's done the most for me.
Jerry Piddington:
So, Mr. Wallace? You know, he was really good friends with [00:565:08-00:56:10]. Super good friends. They worked out together there in Indiana. For years. They were really good buddies. They had Mr. Trias. They hosted the grand nationals there in Anderson, Indiana, too.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. Yeah. There's a name that hasn't come up. That I'm curious about because when we talk about Rias as well, one of the names that often comes up. Is Victor more.
Jerry Piddington:
Victor more I know rivalry is that? Yeah, I'll tell you more stories. Okay. I went to the Battle of Atlanta a few years ago, and I took some students from North Carolina to the Battle of Atlanta. Some of my high rankers went with some of their students from the school and we walked in and I'm walking upstairs and I see Joe over there. And I go and say hi to Joe, and everything's good. And I look to my right. And here's a picture of Victor more on the wall. I looked at Danny Victor's here. And then I saw he had a little booth and he was selling pictures of himself. You know, so he can make money to buy some food.
So he and his son could eat. Yeah, true story. So I went over to Mr. Corley. And so it was clear that I said, I'm gonna get this guy room here at the hotel tomorrow. Because he's my senior in the US. So I'm gonna go get him a room, and I'm gonna give him some passes. So he and his boy could have all the food they want while they're here. He said, That's really nice. So Jerry. Victor thanked me 100 times for that. So he didn't have to sleep in the car. Victor if you know me, he's self proclaimed a lot. You know, but he's a badass. Victor Moore is a badass.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's what I Marshall and I heard. Yeah, that is what I heard we had him on is very early episode 20 or something.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, he just fell on hard times. That's all you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Could it happen to anybody?
Jerry Piddington:
Oh, this is Victor Moore's in my book. He's number one. Even though in his age, now he's not in bad times. But it's good. He's got a little new association. He's doing some rank certifications and stuff for some of these people. And he's coming out of it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't know that name.
Jerry Piddington:
You don't know that name?
Jeremy Lesniak:
No.
Jerry Piddington:
I can't believe you don't know that name. Look, you got a phone on your right now? Yeah. Look up. Pete Rubino right now.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Pete Rubino.
Jerry Piddington:
He was a dance instructor in Newport Beach, California, but he was one of Mr. Trias’. First generation black belts. He remains Yeah, he's in charge of all the shows right now. You know, rubber balls, right? I know that name. Well, him and rubber balls were direct descendants of Robert Trias.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I've read more about this guy. Cool. Yeah, I mean, a lot of you back then too.
Jerry Piddington:
Oh, there were some great martial artists that are still alive. There is a great martial artist right there and he owns a bunch of almond trees in central California. He's just killing it, you know, money wise, but I see him every once in a while but he goes See Bruce's thing gathering in California. We will sit on the stage and reminisce. There's a lot of his left. It's been fun talking to you.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But it was a lot of fun. I appreciate it.
Jerry Piddington:
Did I talk too much or what?
Jeremy Lesniak:
No, no.I'm gonna ask you for one more thing, because I like the guest to kind of send us off. So, you know, you've told some great stories. We've threaded things together. We've been in a bunch of different places, but keeping in mind that the audience is almost exclusively martial artists, right? What advice might you give them?
Jerry Piddington:
If you fall off a horse, get back on it. Never give up. Okay, know yourself, and help and serve others. That's my advice. Stay with it. Help somebody else. You know, give, give and give. Because if you give you're gonna get and never ever ever give your attitudes and your aesthetic qualities from the martial art. Never. That's my advice. Love your family. Of course. Even if you gotta send this person you off.
Jeremy Lesniak:
As promised, an entertaining, educational, maybe even connective episode of martial arts radio that if you had half as much fun with this one as I did, you had a good time. This was one of those that I left and just kind of bouncing around a little bit. What fun, man, Hanshi. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for your willingness to share these great stories with us. Listeners, check out whistlekickmartialartsradio.com for the show notes for this episode, and maybe check out some other episodes while you're over there. If you want to support us in the work that we're doing, bring in new guests like Hanshi, leave a review, buy a book on Amazon and help with our Patreon. You know the drill.
There's a lot you can do. We appreciate your help. I'd love to visit your school for a seminar. That's one of the ways that we cover some costs. If you're up for having me, just let me know and we'll see what we can do. And just as an aside, because we've gotten this question a few times you should be able to easily make money on bringing me into your school. Everybody wins. That's kind of my business model. Everybody wins. If that's not your cup of tea, you could grab something to the store, whistlekick.com use the code PODCAST15.
And if you've got guests or topic suggestions, I want to know you've got feedback. I want to know that to email Jeremy whistlekick.com Our social media @whistlekick and lately we've been getting a lot of attention over there. Some big name accounts are sharing our stuff. You should find out why it takes us to the end. Thanks for being with me today. Until next time, train hard, smile and have a great day.