Episode 718 - David Leath

David Leath is a martial arts practitioner, coach, and speaker. He works at his local County police department.

To me, martial arts training was never a recreational thing. Especially when I got on the job, it was an absolute I must do this. That was my mindset, I must, must train.

David Leath - Episode 718

Who would’ve thought that watching too much television was good for kids? Growing up watching Adam West’s Batman and Bruce Lee, David Leath developed an affinity with Martial Arts. Eventually, martial arts would be an important part of his work in law enforcement in the NYPD. Presently, he works at his local County police department.

David Leath is a podcaster, who goes by the radio name David Diem, and hosts the podcast The Hero Academy.

In this episode, David Leath tells us about his journey into martial arts and why he is a true fan of all martial arts. Listen to learn more!

Show Notes

Check out David Leath’s websites at DavidLeath.com and HeroCoachAcademy.com

Listen to David Leath’s Podcast: The Hero Academy Podcast

Follow David Leath on Instagram: @davidleath1

Show Transcript

You can read the transcript below.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Hey, there, you're listening to whistlekick Martial Arts radio, Episode 718 with my guest today, David leath. I'm Jeremy Lesniak. I'm your host for the show founder here at whistlekick, where everything we do is in support of the traditional martial arts. If you want to see everything we do, visit whistlekick.com, that's our digital hub. It's the place to find our store. And if you use the code, PODCAST15, you're gonna save 15% on anything that you find over there, from training equipment, to apparel, you name it, it works.Martial arts radio, the show gets its own website whistle kick martial arts radio.com, we release two brand new shows each and every week. We've been doing that for years. Why? Well, it's under the heading of connecting educated, entertaining traditional martial artists throughout the world. 

If you want to help the show and the work that we do, you can do a number of things. You could make a purchase, maybe tell a friend, maybe grab a book on Amazon, or you could join the Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick. It's a place where we post exclusive content, we give bonus merch, we give you behind the scenes information. And you can get started for as little as $2 a month. Yep, there's no commitment and cancel anytime. But if you want the full list, all the ways you can help from the paid to the free. The simple to the more complicated, as well as maybe some other kinds of fun stuff that we drop in there. 

At whistlekick.com/family It's a special page that we set up for those of you who are willing to put in the work, so much work of typing in whistle kake.com/family. There's a lot there. We will update it. I update it personally, at least once a week. So maybe you want to check that out. David Leith is a fellow podcaster martial arts enthusiast, who, unlike a lot of us, has used his martial arts day to day in his profession to call a spade stay alive. Had a fun conversation with him. I enjoyed it. And I think you will too. And learning. David, how are you?

Dave Leath:

Good morning. I have a microphone and plug it in also.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Sure. Sounds good.

Dave Leath:

So yeah, partners.

Jeremy Lesniak:

There are people who work on the show. You know, Andrew, who you've been communicating with, he's a big part of the show. Julius has been with me. I think we're coming up on five years. That's incredible. I can do the show. Yeah, yeah. It takes a lot of work. Well, we do two a week. So that's according to you and two other people today.

Dave Leath:

Yeah. And you schedule them so far out? Yeah. I was worried because I'm like, I don't know if they remembered.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Oh, we remember. We remember. 

Dave Leath:

I didn't hear from you. You said you'd messaged me like a week prior, something like that in the last email. Maybe.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Oh, apologies. That's so good. Yeah, we just had the biggest event we've probably ever done this past weekend. And so we had a bunch of prep. So what was the event? We did destination training here in Vermont, all inclusive, where the training itself was. It all built on everything else. So we started Friday night, we ended Sunday morning and we just kept stacking and tweaking. Andrew and I worked on this for over six months. Putting this together. 

Dave Leath:

Was the training martial arts related? 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yeah as martial arts training. They're all fighting among themselves now who's going to sign up first for next year already. 

Dave Leath:

That's awesome. Do you guys have a school? 

Jeremy Lesniak:

No, he does. He does. I'm looking at opening one but no, this is at least for now. What I do is what I do. This is my martial arts school. 

Dave Leath:

Okay. All right. Awesome. I think I've mentioned but I've been a fan. Are we live now?

Jeremy Lesniak:

No, if we don't want to be the recording is running but we can, you know, jot down the start time whenever we want

Dave Leath:

Live or pre show it's all the same. You get the same meat. So anyway. I've been a fan of martial arts since I was probably as young as I can remember. Watching Batman. Watching Bruce Lee, you know.

Jeremy Lesniak:

With that being are we talking about Adam West, Batman. Okay, we're going back there with Yeah, I remember that show. Man. That was a good show.

Dave Leath:

Yeah, I used to rush home, rush home and just go Watch, you know, with eyes wide open, you know, and I used to just love it. It was so corny. Looking back now. It was so quick, but it was perfect for little kids.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yeah, absolutely. And instead of the real violence, you know, the cartoon graphics come up, you know, you kind of fill in the gaps. Yeah, I like it.

Dave Leath:

And then, as I got older, the Saturday morning, Kung Fu, like, I would just watch so much television when I was younger. It was my babysitter. So the Saturday morning kung fu flicks, like I grew up on those, I don't know if it was Saturday mornings, or Sunday mornings, but they will be on I know, there'll be on channel 11. And it was my older brother that got me into him because he'd be like lip synching and like making, like, pretending to do the moves you'd like. And I grew up in the Wu Tang Clan, and the fist, the fist of the White Lotus and the junket, the drunken monk. So as long as I can remember, oh, and then he, my older brother also got a hold of kung fu magazine. And every now and then he'd order something like, I'd be nunchucks in the house, you know, like it was the 80s. So that was, you know, that was the thing, like you'd order things through the mail. You could get, I remember getting stars. I know, no martial arts training whatsoever. But I got kung fu stars through the mail. And I would throw them at my back fence, you know.

Jeremy Lesniak:

And they did not stick in nearly as well as you expected them to, did they?

Dave Leath:

No, no, no. But, you know, I still think I have these metal stars somewhere. And I don't know why I have them. But you know, it's not like I'm ever gonna be throwing them. But somewhere in me, there is a ninja. Like, I studied jiu jitsu. But somewhere in me there is Ninjutsu.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Everybody wanted to be a ninja in the 80s. I mean, what was cooler than, you know, you probably had the same thing I did, you know, looking at the back of those magazines. And looking at all the different ninja stuff. It's like, oh, apparently, I need boots, with a split in the toes. Because somehow that's what ninjas do. And I need the black mask. And I need the black clothes and running around in the backyard, all decked out in black and being a ninja sweating to death. In the middle of summer.

Dave Leath:

I saw a woman in the airport, just came back from Florida with my girlfriend. And she had to split toe boots. And her style, just sort of her whole color scheme was gray. And I'm like she must be European because nobody wears those types of boots anymore.

Jeremy Lesniak:

You didn't ask her if she was a ninja.

Dave Leath:

Now I did ask her if she was a ninja, but you just had a baby. You just reminded me about those boots. And you also needed the claw because I thought I was going to climb trees.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Because every ninja, every aspiring ninja in the 80s needed to be ready to climb any tree at any given time. And somehow that's where all the action is. 

Dave Leath:

It scales a tree and scales the size of a house, scales the side of, you know, somebody's home and is able to crawl through if needed.

Jeremy Lesniak:

These are things that we thought were a big deal, it actually reminds me there's a meme that I see go around once in a while on social media. And the premise is, you know, as a kid, I really thought quicksand was going to be a much bigger deal in my adult life than it is now. Right? Like, think of all these things that we thought were a big deal when we were kids. You know, we thought ninjas were all over the place. We were going to be ninjas.

Dave Leath:

And the other thing the other thing when people join martial arts is they think that there's going to be a fight some at some point and and some people do but most martial artists, once they learn how to fight, they never really have to fight because I just like, Listen, I don't need to fight you. I don't need to prove how tough I am. You know? Like, it's self defense in case you're cornered. It's not like self offense, you know, like you don't go and the other thing that I've noticed about a lot like I've spent a lot of time I would say probably a decade in in different gyms, dojos. You know, and my first style was Kempo Karate. I did that for two years. And we spared a lot. So there was a lot of ego and a lot of tough guys, but I loved it. I loved it and that was before I joined the police department, so I was doing that, but then I was doing the cars. And I absolutely hated cars. So no disrespect, if you do Kata is what's your style.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I do a lot of different things. And I definitely do kata.

Dave Leath:

You definitely do kata, okay, so, like when I was doing kata they would, like, at first, I enjoyed it. And then, like, I got to the point where I was bored with it. And I was just like, oh my god, how many more times I'm gonna go like this, like this, like this, go like this. And it just got to the point where, and this was around the early 90s When the UFC had just come out, and I saw some training in Kempo. Throwing a lot of kicks. We also did taekwondo as well, I really am a true lover of all martial arts. And they came out with the early 90s, the early UFC, it was going to be style versus style. And then I saw this skinny guy Royce Gracie, tapping out these wrestlers that were 100 pounds heavier than him. And like my eyes, I was like a kid again. You know, I was like, what style is that? You know? And as soon as I could I found a jiu jitsu school. And my first question was like, Is there a cause in jujitsu? 

And my instructor was like, no, we don't have cars. And I'm like, and do you do Brazilian jiu jitsu? And he's like, yes, we do. So it's Japanese. It was a Japanese jiu jitsu school. But he had a couple of nights a week. He was a lover of jiu jitsu, also. We used to watch the UFC together. My instructor was like a big brother/friend who's only three years older than me. But he had been training since he was 16 in jujitsu. So he was by the time I met him, he was like, a third or fourth degree black belt, you know, he had been doing it for a long, long time. And I fell in love with Jiu Jitsu, until my body felt like it was broken. You know?

Jeremy Lesniak:

How long did that take? 

Dave Leath:

I would say, like, so I was rolling in my 20s. And I would say until I was like, 20, Sep, about seven years. So, I would say just before I reached 30, I had been training for a good seven years, I would say, in Brazilian jiu jitsu as probably a high level blue belt, maybe a low level purple belt. Because I was tapping guys that were at that level, and then one time in practice, like at, I would be rolling with people who were inexperienced or a lot heavier than me. And just one guy dropped the elbow on my face, and, and I ended up needing to go to the hospital and get stitches for my face. And I was like, What the hell am I doing? I'm not a professional fighter. You know? I'm like, I'm training just because I love it. But slowly, the love of jujitsu. I still absolutely love Jiu Jitsu. I watch a lot of videos. And my girlfriend's kids, they go to MMA class now. It's really cute. And how old are the kids? They're 10 and seven, and the seven year old girl wants to do a competition that's coming up next week. And the 10 year old boy feels like he's not ready. He's scared. 

And he's like, I don't want to do it. And I told her, I'm like, listen, don't push him into the tournament. If you feel like he's not ready, I'd like this plenty of time for him to compete in the next one's two years when he's in middle school. If he feels like he's ready. I'll ask you to do it. You know? If he feels like he's not ready, don't make them do it. And because that's my philosophy, I have three sons myself. And all three of them. wrestled from the time they were in elementary school all the way to high school. And I told them like, you can't quit wrestling until you can beat dad. Even in high school, they couldn't beat me. My youngest one is a beast though he In one the counties and almost went to the States, but we live in. What state are you in?

Jeremy Lesniak:

I'm in Vermont. Yeah. So that's the question. Are you somewhere where wrestling's a real big deal? 

Dave Leath:

Huge, on Long Island, New York, okay. And in my county, we send a lot of guys up to the states. Yeah, my county always sends like three to four people. And sometimes it's a wildcard person, like that should have won the counties. But like, so anyway, we send a lot of people up to the states, and it's a big, big deal in this county. So when they were in elementary school, when they were in elementary school, I would ask them, “Hey, do you want to do this upcoming tournament?” And if they said, “No”, I wouldn't push the issue, I would just. And then once they got into middle school, I started taking them more regularly and taking them to additional, like camps and training and things. And the two older ones, once they got to high school, said they didn't want to do it anymore. And I like my heart was broken, because I've loved wrestling. You know, just watching my sons compete. I absolutely love being in the stands. 

And I spent a lot of hours in the stands, watching them. So just being a fan and cheering them on. And when they said they didn't want to do it anymore. Like it crushed my soul and my heart, but I'm like, Alright, you've been wrestling your whole life. You don't want to do it. You know, it was an argument. It was definitely an argument. My oldest son was rebellious. He was just like, flat out, quit. My youngest son went to one more season. But then he told his coaches, I'm only here because my parents are making me do this. So they sat him out. And they, you know, the coaches actually had a talk with me and my wife, and it was like, Listen, this is a really tough sport. If your heart's not in it, you know, it's like the most challenging. Did you ever wrestle?

Jeremy Lesniak:

No, but I've known enough wrestlers in my adult life. I think I suspect what you're going to say it's brutal. 

Dave Leath:

It is brutal. If your heart's not in it, it's brutal. If your heart's in it, first of all, so and then if your heart's not in it, it's even more brutal. And my middle son was so athletically gifted, like, you know, when you see somebody who's just athletically gifted, and they're like, “Oh, my God, you have so much talent, you could be so good”. And it was just not in his heart. He's like, this is something that you want from me. It's not something I want, it was, you know,

Jeremy Lesniak:

He wanted something else. 

Dave Leath:

He didn't hit him. He wanted to not do sports. And I was like, “Well, you can't, you can't do anything, you know, but you have to do something”. And because his brother is old, the oldest one, my oldest son, once he stopped wrestling, he started getting into trouble in school and getting into trouble with his friends. So I was just like, that was my parents equation like, Hey, if you're not doing sports, you're gonna get into trouble. You know, Chris Rock, he has a joke where he says, parents only job is to keep the daughter off the pole and their sons out of jail. So I always believed that my only job was to keep my sons out of trouble and out of jail, you know, thank god knock on wood. They never went to jail. But I still believe to this day, you have to keep them involved in something.

Jeremy Lesniak:

So I want to go back a little bit because we're, you hit a couple things that I want to. I want to pull some threads on being rambling, that's your job. My job is to keep you talking and you're making my job really easy, which I appreciate. 

Dave Leath:

Thank you.

Jeremy Lesniak:

So here we are. We're in the 80s and you're watching kung fu theater. And you know, you're ordering throwing stars. Somehow that transitions to you starting formal training with Kempo.

Dave Leath:

I've always doubted ways through

Jeremy Lesniak:

Would have been parental involvement.

Dave Leath:

No, I know for you, I was about so I've worked since I was 1515. And raised by a single mom, and I've worked since I was about 15. I had my first job on a farm. And then I worked at a deli and then 15 I worked for McDonald's. So I've always earned money every summer. And then at 16, I joined the football team. And they had Hell Week. And I determined that I didn't want to go through hell. And my heart wasn't in football. But then in the 10th grade, I joined the wrestling team. And I absolutely loved it. I love practicing. But, because I had a single mom, who she didn't really provide, she didn't make a lot of money. So it was like, “Hey, do I want to wrestle? Or do I want to earn money?”. So like I said, I've always worked. So I got a factory job. And from 16 to 20, I worked at that same factory. It was really great for teenagers because you can call in on the day off and say that you didn't want to go to work. 

And they wouldn't fire you like that, as long as you didn't abuse it. But you can call in on the day off and say, yeah, I'm not as long as you gave them enough. Notice they could have somebody else fill in your spot, because it was basically like an assembly line. Estee Lauder Whitman packaging, where you sit on the lot, you sit on the line, and you put the makeup on the line, the makeup in the box, it was perfect work for a teenager, not much thought to it, you just had to like reach in one box, put your stuff in the next box. And then you got little breaks here and there. So that was my job until I got a career with the police department. Like I said I had that job for about four years. 

And then I started as a civilian with the police department. And I was making pretty good money as a college student working for the police department as a clerk as a civilian clerk. And one of the officers there. He said, “Oh my kids go to school. You know, this local school? The instructor, Sensei, he's really good. You should say he's a correction officer”. So like, my eyes lit up at that, you know, because I, I wanted to ask him all these stories about you know, like, like, I had no idea what the job was like, you know, and I knew I didn't want to be corrected. Yeah, I knew I did.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Those guys had stories. Yeah, corrections officers always, definitely a story. 

Dave Leath:

So, he had some of those on the show, he would tell me about, you know, like, if a prisoner was walking by, he'd have his back to the wall. So that he can, he'd always be watching their hands. Because, you know, a couple of them tried to shank them. So like his knife defense, he was really, really good. And, I just like, anytime he spoke, my eyes were wide open, you know, and, like, that was my first love, love for another man, instructor. You know, like, he was so, so much you're so manly. Tony or Sonam. He's still alive, if I download for you this but you know, he was like, I don't know, if you've, I'm sure a lot of your listeners can relate to this. Like when you go into a school, and the instructor is like up on a pedestal. And like you think he's still this amazing human being but like it was my first martial arts experience. And like, if he told me, “Hey, go punch that wall for an hour”, I would have gone and punched the wall for an hour. Like, if he told you to understand what you're saying.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I totally get what you're saying.

Dave Leath:

So we did a lot of sparring, and I loved it. The things that I loved about Kempo and karate, was the sparring and the distance control and the timing, the time, I would say the timing of it is key. That's what I loved about karate. What I did not love was that, so I rewind a little bit. My best friend was a state wrestler, state champion wrestler. And that's what made me join wrestling in the 10th grade. So, when I joined in the 10th grade, I quickly realized that these other kids had been training for, you know, like years ahead of me, and I was really far behind in my athletic development and in my knowledge of the sport, so I sucked at wrestling. You know, so like, but I love being in the training room. I love the practices. I just love getting my hands on people. My soul loved wrestling. And I had been wrestling with my neighbor, you know, like in the backyard or in his basement for my entire, you know, Kid life. He would ragdoll me. Did you do any jiu jitsu little, little bit? 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yeah. 

Dave Leath:

Okay, so you know what I'm talking about. So before I knew what the guard was, he'd get me on my back, and I would throw my legs up around his ribcage, and I would try to crush his ribs to the extent of my liking, and I would try and hold that position. And I didn't know what it was called. I didn't know what it was. But that's all that I could do against him. Because he was such a dominant wrestler, he would take me down so easily. So when I was training in Kempo, karate the one thing that I didn't love was that my instructor never ever, ever touched on if someone comes after your legs, if, like how to defend against wrestlers, and I would bring those things up, because, like, I grew up with a wrestler, and, like all of the techniques were all standing, striking based. And, this was before the UFC. 

So I was thinking, like, hey, well, what happens if the guy comes in on a single, and he grabs your leg? Or what happens if he tries to, you know, do a double and like, and one of my sparring partners, this guy, Jean, he used to be a wrestler, so like, when we spar, I could have these conversations with him. But when I had those conversations with my, with my sensei, he'd always be like, “Oh, why do you want to go down to the ground?” And I'm like, well, I'm not saying I want to, I'm just saying, Well, what happens if it ends up there? Like, what happens if, you know, like, what if they do this? What if they do that, you know, and he just wouldn't hear it? So, that was where I started and my disdain for kata, like, I suppose. My disdain for kindness.

Jeremy Lesniak:

But you know, I gotta say, because I had this vision of you on the factory line, just like taking things out of boxes, putting them in, and like getting better and getting more efficient. I'm like, man, that's kind of right there. Yeah, I'm getting better at a simple process. And the clicking the benefit from it,

Dave Leath:

I believe Bruce Lee is the man that practices the same kick 10,000 times, yeah, not the man that does 10,000 techniques, but the same kick. So I understand that concept. 100% Because when I went to jiu jitsu, a lot of times, there were a lot of young guys in their 20s that would want to go live and I'm like, and, and I'd be sore. So I'd be like, hey, let's just drill this one technique today. Let's just drill this, like in people and, and I was like that, I did have that kind of a mindset of let's do this 100 times today, you know, and people would get sick of it. And I'd be like, let me just get behind you. And pull this around your neck, as many times as you can, you know, as many times as you can possibly stand. 

And really good stuff comes from the basics. And I remember my jiu jitsu instructor saying that, you know, the best jiu jitsu practitioners. They just practice the basics over and over and over and over and over again. And my Kempo instructor said the same thing. He's like, you want to get good, throw this front kick over and over and over again. And I still have a really good sidekick. I still have a really good front kick. Because we did kicks for charity one time. And like I was sore for

Jeremy Lesniak:

Was it just like a certain number of kicks in a time period? Yeah. How long was I?

Dave Leath:

I don't recall how long it was. It might have been a half hour, it might have been an hour. I don't recall what it was. But I recall that I was young enough to do it. And then I was sore. Enough to hurt for a long time after old enough to hurt for a long time after and it still is ingrained in my memory. But I remember we were doing kicks for charity. And that was extremely painful. Have you ever done anything like that?

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yeah, yeah, we did. We did some kickathon stuff when I was a kid and up through early teens and you know, we would think it was two minutes. How many kicks can you do in two minutes? Because two minutes is a constant kicking, a lot of kicking.

Dave Leath:

It might, you know, my memory is vague now, because it's like it. We're going back a couple of decades now. So I'm in my 40s. This was in my 20s. So I don't recall how long it was, I just recall it being painful. Sure. And, you know, it might have only been five minutes of kicking

Jeremy Lesniak:

Still, it's a lot of kicking. Okay,

Dave Leath:

So I know you are about to ask me a question. What styles did you study?

Jeremy Lesniak:

So, I grew up with a few styles of karate. And I've bounced around, I've done judo and I've done jujitsu, and I've done Taekwondo and kickboxing and Tai Chi in there. And I just love it. I think you and I have that in common but we both love to train. As you know, I consider myself a martial artists not. I do karate when I'm a martial artist. It's all good.

Dave Leath:

Me too. Yeah, we have the same soul. So I 100% We have the same hair too. I love tai chi, and I can't wait to do it. And I still love kung fu to this day. And once I retire and have a little bit more time, I will find a wing chun school. And I just can't wait to hit the wooden dummy. You know, and just practice those techniques. Not because I feel like I'm going to compete with someone. But because, like, so when I was, but because I just love. I still love Bruce Lee. I still love when Jeet Kune Do you know,

Jeremy Lesniak:

How many? How many hours did you spend watching people beat on a wooden dummy at some point in these movies you're watching.

Dave Leath:

And I'm like, I have to do that someday, you know, I have to learn how to strike a wind dummy. And I have to, so I've never trained in Wing Chun or kung fu. But I still want to train in Wing Chun. And I still want to do Tai Chi. Occasionally, I'll do yoga. I don't consider yoga, martial arts, I consider it more of an exercise stretching type of thing. But my girl, she really loves yoga, and I've done hot yoga a few times. So I'm just down to try all different types of things. You know, like any other thing that I've, I, I really, really want to do. So I want to go to Brazil and I want to do capoeira on a beach with resilience. You know? Like, I went to the Philippines. I did capoeira there.  I was passing by a school. AndI'm like, oh, I'll go try that, you know, like Filipino or, like, that sounds awesome. It was incredible. You know, they were playing the drums. They're playing the music they would do in the warm ups. And I was like, oh, man.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Have you done any capoeira before that?

Dave Leath:

Okay, in my living room. Only in my living room. So much fun. So much fun. It's so much fun, you know? And, and it's, it's you sweat like crazy. It's exercise. And it's dancing. It's just fun. Like I would say, of all the martial arts I have done kappa were to me the most fun, loyal. I'm just grinning ear to ear and like, I don't think any other martial art incorporates music like that.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Not traditionally, not traditionally, that I'm aware of. Yeah, maybe you can't have Capoeira without music. And any traditional Capoeira program I'm familiar with. Learning how to play the instruments is part of your progress.

Dave Leath:

Yes, yes. And that's one of my weak areas is music. My middle son is a musician. And I actually the athlete, 

Jeremy Lesniak:

The board athlete turned music. 

Dave Leath:

Yeah, he's had a keyboard. And he's always been, he's always known how to play it. Like, I can't remember the song by Dr. Dre. But he could play the same. He could play the same keyboard. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Still Dre?

Dave Leath:

Yes, yes. Yes, I think so. I think somebody can play that piano by ear. Like he was just oh, wow. He learned how to do it, so I'm like a natural musician. And that was another argument: he has so much talent for making beats and making music. I was like, you could be a music engineer. And he loved it too. And he's like, I don't want to spend my days. You know, doing music. He's like, I just want to do it for me. And I'm like, alright, I respect that. You know, but I'm like, There's money. Hear that you're leaving money on the table. 

So anyway, I digress back to Capoeira? And the Philippines. So my plan with pre-COVID was to put two stamps a year on my passport. Okay. Yeah, I tried to travel very inexpensively and I liked staying at hostels. But at one point when I was in Japan, the hotel in Japan was gorgeous. It was brand new. But I think I stayed in one in the Philippines and I was like, it was all like, really young people. I was probably in my late 30s at this point, and everybody was in their early 20s. And I was like, maybe I can afford to upgrade. I know that for a little bit. 

You know, like, yeah, you don't need to stay at a hostel. A hostel is really fun if you're with a group of people. Like if you have three to four more people with you. A hostel can be really fun because you can take over the room and the room is just yours. But if you're traveling solo, like I was, I did a few trips solo by myself. Just because they were places that I wanted to see like I always wanted to go to Japan, I saw traditional sumo wrestlers. Train training. Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy Lesniak:

No. Did you step in there and mix it up with them like you did? Can it be like I want to learn Sumo?

Dave Leath:

No, no, no, no, no, no, I just do something. I'm smart enough to know that. I'll just watch as a fan. Yeah, like Judo is one of those things that I'm smart enough to know like I trained with his name was Judo Jeff. And he was I would say he was like a 5,10, 210 pounds solid guy, stocky, solid, you know, solid guy. Yeah. And I've always been about 150. Pretty much my entire adult life. Now, I'm not as you could tell from the pictures. I'm not a big guy. I'm a small guy. So he used to toss me around. But one thing I learned was how to like, not get tossed around as much as I would hop with it. So he would come to our jiu jitsu school occasionally, because he was friends with my instructor. And he never took it easy on it. Like he was a black belt, in judo. And like, and he never ever took it easy on me. God bless his soul. He passed when he was lifting like he was just like a hard man. And like, he was old school and he never ever took it easy. I'll just leave it at that. 

So, like I knew training with him. I'm like, man, I don't want to be thrown all session long. Like I love learning Judo techniques. I love the throws, a lot of them correlated with wrestling. And just like traditional jiu jitsu, just like the trips were so artistically beautiful. You know? Like I saw Judo is one of those things, like sumo wrestling that I can appreciate as a fan. Every time it's the Olympics, I watch the YouTube highlights, you know, I watch the matches. And even when I was training, if I had a willing partner that was similar in weight to me, I'd be like, hey, let's just do throws today, you know. And so I have put in a few hours of judo training, but it's one of those things that I know that I could not sustain physically. Even knowing how to fall it's just like, it's one of those things. That's what I feel. Mike, this is my own personal belief. No one gets mad at me. But I feel that Judo is a very hard on the body sport. And like, you know, my fingers will always taped up.

Jeremy Lesniak:

You're throwing people at the floor constantly. The whole job is to take a person and hit them with the grout. 

Dave Leath:

Yeah, and even with the match on the mat, you have the chance of things in your back or your hips just going a little bit out of whack. Yeah, so I've had some you know, I've had some Judo injuries and I was just like, yeah, I don't think about those things you know, like I know myself well, so like, I can be a fan of it. I'm a huge fan, huge fan of Jiu Jitsu, not just judo, huge fan of judo and the reason why I love jiu jitsu so much is like I consider jiu jitsu, the parent art where like all of these other things like Judo branched from jujitsu, Ninjitsu branch from jujitsu, you know, presenting jiu jitsu branched from traditional Japanese jujitsu. But I, and even Aikido, had fun training in Aikido. Did you do that in Japan? I did not. I didn't have enough time. I didn't have enough time. Like I said, I was looking for a traditional jujitsu school looking for a traditional Japanese jiu jitsu school and the part of Tokyo that I was in, I couldn't find one, you know, like, I probably would have to go to a different part of Japan. 

Because I was in the city, and everything around me, like, you know, I did a quick Google search, and everything around me was Brazilian jiu jitsu in Japan. In Tokyo, you know, like, I'm sure it's not what I would have expected. I'm sure if I linked up with someone who was local, because there's a lot of hidden places that aren't necessarily on Google. And they have like, they have restaurants on top of restaurants. And then there's like hidden restaurants that, like, if you don't know that it's there. Tokyo, if you ever get the opportunity, like I would highly recommend you book a trip this year, if you can swing it financially, this year, or next year, like save up for that trip. 

And as a lover of martial arts, I plan that trip to go to some martial arts schools, and just like it's such a, it's such a magical place. Like you feel the energy, the vibe of, and when I was in Tokyo, I was like, man, I could totally, totally live here. It is such a cool place. So the culture of Japanese people is that there's very little crime and everyone's very respectful. When you're a perfect example, when you're on a train. Everyone has headphones so there's no conversation between people. It's a silent ride. So everyone's sitting there like this. Because if you're having a conversation on the train, people would give you the side eye because you're being disrespectful to the other passengers. Oh, wow. And everyone understands this. So no one is there to have a full blown conversation on the result. Sounds lovely. It is that and that's their culture. It is a beautiful, beautiful culture. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

The exact opposite of my experience on the trains in New York.

Dave Leath:

Yeah, yeah. So you have to experience that. And then. So my guy told me, you know, like, if Americans do that, the Japanese people realize, like, they don't give you as much of a society because they're like, well, you know, they're foreign. Or they're tourists. They don't necessarily know but if another Japanese person does it, they really give them a scornful look. Then, you know, like, you get a scornful look at the traffic lights, no one, like there could be no traffic, looking left and right, and there's no traffic, and no one's gonna say no one's crossing like it's just like they like. 

Yes, a very lawful society. And if you leave your wallet on a table in a restaurant, they'll bring it up to the front, and you don't have to worry about, you know, money being missing. It depends, you know, obviously, there are some bad parts of town, you know, that every place has its criminals, but for some reason they have less crime in a larger city than we do. You know, it comes down to the culture of the people. You know, like, it really is a beautiful society. And like, when you visit it, you'll understand what I mean. So, I saw the cherry blossoms like I had such an amazing, amazing, I saw Mount Fuji that was at the bottom of Mount Fuji at this lake called Diamond Lake because it shaped like a diamond, you could see the reflection of Mount Fuji in the lake. And it's like, that was a magical trip. And the only thing that's holding me back from going back again, is I have so many other places that I want to see.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Again, so I'm curious, you know, so, again, we come back to this arc of you falling in love with martial arts and what it represents, before you even have the opportunity to formally train you off. You're doing some of these things. I don't think that as someone who grew up practicing jazz I've been using Okinawan martial arts, there's a more iconic, real visual that I could have then Mount Fuji, you know, what was? What was it like being there and kind of like checking that box, you're like, Alright, there's Mount Fuji like, I'm here, like, I've done this, like.

Dave Leath:

That's the other thing that I wanted to do there. I just, I've ran out of time, there's so much to see and so much to do. I wanted to go to a traditional, like, Okinawa and style dojo and just do you know, one, two classes, and I just ran out of time, but that was that. So that was the whole reason why I packed my gate. I packed my Gi. And at that time, I was a black belt in jujitsu. But I was not going to pack my black belt. Like, I always had this belief, and I don't know how different schools are, but like, I would never bring a black belt into another school because I feel like I'm a white belt, entering into that school. So that's how I was, when I went to the Brazilian jiu jitsu school, I brought my blue belt. Because I was like, you know, they'll, they won't have a problem with the blue belt, you know, like, I wasn't a black belt, in jiu jitsu in check, in Brazilian jiu jitsu. 

So I was like, I can safely say, I'm a blue belt, you know, so I brought my blue belt. And, they embraced me with open arms. I trained there for two hours, but I also brought my white belt in my suitcase, as well. And if I had gone to a traditional karate school, I would have brought my white white white belt, you know. So that was my plan. When I went to Japan, I packed my ghee with the intention of visiting some schools, but also eating sushi and, you know, just enjoying the sights. There was just so much to do. The size of Tokyo is like the size of, you know, part of Connecticut, all of Manhattan and New York altogether. It's a massive, massive city, right. And people don't realize how big that city is. 

It is one of the biggest cities, you know, on our planet. So, if you plan a trip, and you do go, you definitely want to have a guide, someone that can show you different things like, at the time, I split my time between Tokyo and then another part, I can't even remember where it was. It was a little bit further south. I took a train for like an hour and a half there. And I linked up with a buddy who's in the Navy. Did you know that? The US has a navy station in Japan?

Jeremy Lesniak:

And they have to launch military folks over there. 

Dave Leath:

Yeah, yeah, I had no idea until I traveled there. And then I linked up with this guy who's in the Navy, and he's like, I am stationed in Japan. And he's like, we have a contract to defend Japan. First, if there's any, which is kind of funny, like, we're such allies with Japan now that if someone attacks them, everyone knows the US is coming to their defense. First, like we're their first line of defense. If you attack Japan, you're attacking the US. Yeah.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yeah, it's heavy stuff. geopolitics, man.

Dave Leath:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I stayed with him at his place. And he became my guide. And I had some of the best Indian food I've ever had.

Jeremy Lesniak:

In the food in Japan, couples in the Philippines.

Dave Leath:

Philippines. Yeah. Yeah. So I always bring stuff to work out and train. And when I trained in Japan, I hadn't rolled with anybody for like, 10 years. At that point, I had been retired from the sport for 10 years. And, you know, it was like a fish out of water. Like it was just like, flooded, you know, everything flooded back to me. And I was like, I was still really, really good because you don't lose everything. You know, like, it's all muscle memory. But, but my, my cardio wasn't there. You know, my endurance wasn't there. But I just love it. I love rolling so much. And then another 10 years went by, and it was Father's Day, I want to say like two years ago, and my son said, hey, my school's having a Father's Day. So I went to his school and rolled with him for like an hour and a half. And I was like, hey, just take it easy on me because I'm like, I'm like, you can break it. 

So now like my young son, he's like 170, and he's training to be an MMA fighter and I do not want him to be a fighter whatsoever. But this is this a battle that like now I'm old enough and wise enough to I'm like, I'm like, let's just let it pass away. He is 21 Okay, he's training at Long Island, MMA, MMA. He got in. He's an ambassador for a food delivery service. So like, so, you know, like, he's doing all the right things. He's training Jiu Jitsu. He's training MMA. He's trained in Thai and stands up. And he's got the wrestling base from being, you know, from being having a maniac good foundation. Yeah, that's the foundation. I always said, if I was going to build a perfect fighter, the base would be wrestling. 

And then at some point, they would learn like I would, if I had unlimited funds, I would send them to Thailand. And he would train in Thailand for two years, two years of just nothing but Muay Thai in Thailand, and then come back, and I would send them to like, a, like a famous gym in Brooklyn, like a famous boxing gym, learn and learn the head movement because, like in Muay Thai, there's no head movement. You just stand there. And you bang. Have you ever done Muay Thai?

Jeremy Lesniak:

I have trained with people who do more Muay Thai would not say I've done more Muay Thai.

Dave Leath:

Yeah, yeah. So in Muay Thai in general, I'm speaking in general, there's very little hit. They don't have the traditional boxers head movement.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Nobody has a traditional boxer's head movement. I mean, it's phenomenal. You get right, actually, some of the high level fighters, you know, like Tyson fury, and it's like, how does your neck do that?

Dave Leath:

Yes, yes, yes, Tyson Fury and Floyd Mayweather and Roy Jones, Jr. Oh, and Prince Naseem you ever see him and he was highlighted, no. Don't know how to say his name correctly, just off the top of my head. But if you Google, he's ultra cocky. But his head movement is just unbelievable the way he can like, just get out of the way of that punch. Like to have those fast twitch muscles like that, like I am. So in the 80s and 90s, I was a huge fan of Mike Tyson. Like, like everyone else. How could you? How could you not be you know, it was like, people would get together. And that was the premier Pay Per View event, like everybody was gathering. And it would be over in under five minutes. You know, like, you'd have this big night plan. But there were other fights on the card.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Actually, you had a heavy undercard, you had the undercard.

Dave Leath:

And, you know, I like you. I've had a love for all martial arts. And I consider wrestling, boxing, and martial arts. And I consider them, you know, science. Boxing is the sweet science. And I just love I'm still to this day, I'm in love with the head movement, and the shoulder movement, the head movement. And, there's a guy on YouTube also that I watched, like, I've watched the video like a dozen times probably how to win a street fight without throwing a punch. And, when he goes up, he gives people these boxing gloves. And he puts his and he's like, I'm gonna put my hands down. And sometimes he puts them behind his back. And he's just doing head movement at the end of the video. He's like, I don't recommend you try this.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Now that sounds like a bad idea.

Dave Leath:

It was like I don't recommend you try this. But it's like, what the principle that I'm showing you is that you can tire your opponent out by making the Miss and, and it's pretty incredible. Like all he's doing is rolling, pulling, you know, he's rolling with the punches. He's pulling from the punches. And he's ducking and he's ducking punches, and he's making, you know, they're not trained fighters obviously. But he's making them look silly, and they're getting tired out, you know, because everyone throws a one two and they all rush them they all throw. And they all rushed a few people with throwing hooks and tried to throw up buckets but they were getting exhausted chasing after him. 

And I've been a fan of that. Like, I have a friend who owns a boxing gym who's also a cop. He came on with me 25 years ago. He owns a boxing gym and I would send him the videos and he's like, yeah, come on down, come and do it. But it's just time. You know, like, everything is just time. You know, like, you have to evaluate, like, where do you want to spend your time and right now I'm building my own podcast.

Jeremy Lesniak:

I was just about to bring that up. Yeah, that's thanks. So let's, let's, let's talk and let's start about that.

Dave Leath:

So my podcast, that's my logo in the back, is for first responders, and police officers, firemen, nurses, and other emergency medical personnel. It's called the Hero Academy by David Diem like Carpe Di-em. There is an anime show called My Hero Academy. But I had no idea of that when I created my show. So that anime comes up when you look it up, but we're into our second season. I'm only you know, I still haven't gotten to hundreds of episodes yet. You know. But I've done dozens now.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Yeah, it's just a question of time and keep grinding away.

Dave Leath:

And it's just, I call those people, our frontline heroes. Because, you know, I feel like they're the unsung heroes of our society, and they don't get the recognition that they deserve. And a lot of them have some great, great stories of and so I focus on their story. Whenever I talk to another cop, it's, I always ask them, Hey, have you trained at all you know, and, and the most frustrating thing about cops is they go through the academy. Generally, they get six weeks, eight weeks, maybe of defensive tactics training. And then they never train again a day in their life, you know, and something happens like, say, you're a 10, or 11 year street cop. And all of a sudden, you get that one person who turns around and wants to throw a punch at you. And you think that you're going to remember defensive tactics from 10 years ago, 11 years ago, where you train where you train for eight weeks. You train for eight weeks,

Jeremy Lesniak:

It's like saying, here's your yellow belt. That's all you need.

Dave Leath:

Right? Here's yellow belt and be on your way, never train again a day in your life. And so when I joined the police department, I knew I was going to train as long as I was on the street, I was going to train. So that's why I joined that karate school, the Kimble school. And then I fell in love with Jiu Jitsu. And that's why I joined the jiu jitsu school. And I got to a point where I felt confident enough that I'm like, Alright, I've been I've rolled with guys that were like, 225 pounds, I rolled with a guy who was who was 190 and shredded. And he was a secret service agent. And he was just a cool guy. I can't remember his first name now, but he was a really cool guy. And, we trained together. And at the time, I was like, I was giving up probably 45 pounds. But through technique, you know, proper technique, I was holding my own with them, because I had more years of experience than he had than he had technique, you know, like, so. I got to a point where I felt comfortable enough that I'm like, Alright, I think I can handle myself. You know, like, I feel pretty confident in my ability. 

And, and my verbal judo, I left this out, I didn't get a chance to say, my verbal judo skills are excellent. Like, I can avoid confrontation. Pretty pretty well, you know, is that a skill set you've always had? It's something that they taught us. I went to the city academy, and they taught us that term in the city academy. And then they taught us that term in my local academy also. And I feel like I honed that skill, you know, like, I would talk people into cops. You know, I would say things like, I would say things like, “Listen, man. There's no reason for us to get into any kind of drama”. Like, you know, let's just keep this easy. Keep it light, you know, and knowing full well like, like, hey, if it's on, it's on, and I'm going to kick your ass. But you know, I would give, I would speak in a command voice but also very relaxed. And like, I was the guy that would show up and relax things like I never. I remember being a domestic call once cop in uniform. And this other guy who I knew never trained today in his life. 

He goes up to guy he's in the guy's house and he's sticking his finger in his chest. So like he's inflaming the situation. And you don't want to you don't want to call the guy out while you're on the scene, but I'm looking over to my left, and I'm like, what? I don't want to curse escalate, like, what are you doing? You're escalating the situation, you know. So, afterwards, I remember thinking to myself, like, alright, I'm going to tell this guy like, hey, you need to calm down, because you're escalating situations. And I'm like, and you're gonna force us to get into, you know, roll around a fight with this guy, where it doesn't have to be, like, you know, you can, you can kind of you can tuck most people into cuffs, you know, like, unless, unless they have nothing to lose. 

But those even those people, I would say, 99% of them, they just want to get away. They're not trying, there's that 1% of the 1% who are like, yeah, I'm gonna, if I get into, I'm gonna kill you. Like, those people are crazy, you know. But there's very few people out there who are like, hey, if a cop approaches me, I'm gonna kill that cop, you know? Right, thank God, that fortunately, there's very, very, very few people out there in the world that have that mentality. But on the same hand, you have to be able to defend yourself if you come across that person, right? Like, if it's just you and him, and your backup is five to 10 minutes away, can you survive that long? And I used to tell my ex, lwe live in the suburbs, and it's the teller, I was always training for the scenario of if I chase someone into the woods, and it's just mean, can I survive for 10 minutes until somebody finds out where I am? 

Or can I survive, until as long as I need to. One of the things that they taught us in the academy was when you have a gun on your hip, and you get into an engagement with someone, there is no losing. If  you lose your life. So you have to have that mindset of I can never lose. I'm undefeated. And I remember in the City Academy, one of the instructors said I plan on being punched in the face. And I remember thinking No, no, no, I'm never going to be punched in the face. I'm like, maybe that's you. But I never got hit by anybody. And no one ever even swung on me because like I said, my verbal judo skills were on point.

Jeremy Lesniak:

So are you still active? Are you still,..?

Dave Leath:

I'm still a detective. Still an active duty detective, but I don't. I don't go out and arrest people anymore. Like I'll send the young cop to go do that. Or like, or if I don't send someone to go do it, I'll make a phone call. And I'll have them surrender with their attorney. You know, it's like, if I know they have an attorney, it's like, “Hey, can you arrange for your client to surrender on this date and time?” So like, I'm really not in the streets active.

Jeremy Lesniak:

That's good. That's a demonstration against a young kid and an adult like you're not even going to grab him. You're just calling them up? Hey, we need you to come in. I'm not even leaving my desk.

Dave Leath:

Yeah, exactly. So I have to, I have to get up and walk around in order to be active. Otherwise, I could end up sitting at my desk for eight hours a day. And let myself get out of shape which would never ever happen. But you know, it does happen to a lot of other people that I work with, because it's a different mindset, you're not out walking around, shaking hands and talking to people and getting out of the car and doing car stops. You're just sitting literally sitting at your desk, answering the phone, taking messages and calling people and you know, like, the most you do, actively is you might go out and look for video of a foreign incident. 

You know, like, if somebody used a stolen credit card inside or inside of a mall, you might go but even that can be done with a phone call, like you might call a manager and say hey, can you see a video for this? You know, you have to, you have to decide to be active. And I would say my whole career has been defined by me deciding to be active, you know? So back to the ex, I would tell her like hey, I have to be ready for a scenario where I'm fighting with someone and she understood that so she would allow me with little kids to go and train for, you know, two hours a night. 

I used to work Midnight's and I could always be home for the family but training like six to 8pm She knew I had to be had to be in the gym, you know, and I'm grateful for her for allowing me to train and understanding that like, to me it wasn't like it wasn't. martial arts training was never is Especially once I got on job, it was never like a recreational thing. It was absolute, I must do this. So that was my mindset. It was like I must train.

Jeremy Lesniak:

All right. So remind us again, your show where people find it.

Dave Leath:

Yeah, absolutely. It's the top of the hour. So I'm gonna let you go and I'm gonna go to the gym myself. My website is my name. It's davidleath.com. My, if you want to see my coaching, my coaching website is the hero, Coach academy.com. And my podcast is the Hero Academy by David dem, not David Lee, David Diaz. So that's a story for another time. Yeah. Yeah, that's my that's my radio name is David DEM. That's also like my Facebook name. If anybody wants to link up with me. Instagram. It's David Leath one. So definitely look me up, link up with me on Facebook.

Jeremy Lesniak:

And we'll link all this stuff in the show notes for Yeah, people make it easy for them.

Dave Leath:

And I'll see you. I'll send you an email with all my contact information, please. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Alright. So as we fade out here, you know, I always might guess, what are the final words you want to leave for the audience?

Dave Leath:

So the final words that I want to leave for the audience is every sexual assault victim that I talked to nowadays, I used to be in special victims and I used to deal with kids. But even the kids, if they were old enough, I would tell the parents, hey, put them in jujitsu because it will, it will help bring back their confidence. And, now, if I speak to an adult sexual assault victim, I tell them hey, when you're ready, join a martial arts school. I don't say specifically jiu jitsu. But I just say join a martial arts school. And you know, it'll help bring back some of that confidence that has been taken from you. And my advice to your audience is, I know I'm preaching to the choir, because all of your audience love martial arts. But if you can tell someone that has kids to put their boys in then it's unfortunate they don't have wrestling for girls, but put their boys in wrestling. 

No one on the wrestling team no matter what their size, what their weight class, no one on the wrestling team ever gets bullied in school. That is 100% fact because they have their other teammates. And they also have the competence of knowing what it is to engage in physical combat. It's not life or death combat, but it's a sport. And no one is. So, every time I meet a parent, I always tell them, like listen, the very best advice I can give you if you have small children, is to put them in wrestling as soon as humanly possible. And if you can't, if your school doesn't have wrestling available, then put them in jiu jitsu because or you know, any other martial art being, you know, obviously, I'm biased towards jujitsu. That's my bias, but put them in a martial art, put them in jujitsu and my girlfriend actually listened to me. And she put her kids in MMA, they were doing karate. 

And then they started doing MMA at a different school. And they absolutely absolutely loved it, like they took to it. Like, they, they love it. So the 10 year old, he's more of a book reader. And, you know, so, you know, like, he has the tendency to possibly get picked on. And he took to it, like a fish out of water, you know, and he just absolutely loves it. And he gets in the car, he's all he's all lit up. And he's like, David, you got to show me how to like, control a heavier person because I really want to beat my friend. When they spar and I'm like, “Alright, no problem. We have to work on your back control and like you can do that on my back”. You know, like I'll try almost like, what's it called bull riding, you know, like I'm trying to knock you off and you just hold on really tight you know? I I can't say how much if you haven't picked it up by now how much I love martial arts and and you know, top of the top of that food chain for me is wrestling and Brazilian jiu jitsu. But those are my personal loves. But it's not to say that I don't love kung fu still, as you know, like, the kid in me still loves Kung Fu and I forgot to mention my youngest son was doing Taekwondo for a couple of years. 

The one that wants to be an MMA fighter was doing Taekwondo. You know, so he was doing Taekwondo, and he's just like, he has that. I passed on that love of martial arts. And, and I watched the matrix with, with my oldest son, you know, like, one of my all time favorite movies, the matrix, and we, you know, like my oldest son, he was going through a bad time with his girlfriend. And he's like, “Dad, I need to come over”. So he came over, and he doesn't live at home anymore. So he came over, and we sat down. And we watched the newest matrix together. And it was just like, memories like that, you know, like martial arts. They've always been a part of my life, and they will continue to be and I love them. Oh, my God, I can't believe I didn't bring up the avatar. concept. You know that avatar is right. 

Jeremy Lesniak:

Aang the last avatar? 

Dave Leath:

Yeah. Yeah. So we watched that as a family. It's such a good show. It was so good. It's so good. So anything martial arts related, it doesn't have to be serious. It could be. It could be, you know, Kid related. And I just love it. You know, like, the only thing that I couldn't stomach watching with my kids was the power ranges, the only thing because it was just so cheesy. And that's the point of it. That was the only thing that was the only thing that I couldn't stomach. But then, Jeremy, I really appreciated this time. This was fun. This interview was fun, and I hope it made it valuable for your listeners. And I hope you know, I hope it was a good interview.

Jeremy Lesniak:

Was that a fun conversation? I continue to be both surprised and not surprised that hundreds of episodes in we hear different variations on the stories, different desires to start training coupled with different implementations of what's learned during training. I love what David's doing. I love how it all connects. So thanks for coming on the show, man. And fun talk soon. listeners. If you want more, go to Whoops. Okay, martialartsradio.com. Every episode has a page all due itself,  photos, a transcript, and sometimes even more, if you're willing to support us and the work that we do, because remember, we didn't charge you for this episode. 

You've got some options. You could leave a review, buy a book on Amazon, help out with the Patreon or a whole bunch of other things. If you want to bring me to your school for a seminar, I'd love to join you. I'm a pretty good instructor. And there's some stuff that I teach that, frankly, nobody else really seems to teach. Reach out. We'll make it happen. Don't forget the code PODCAST15, if 15% on anything, at whistlekick.com. And if you know someone we should have on the show, or maybe there's a topic for Thursday's episode we haven't covered. Reach out, let us know my email is Jeremy@whistlekick.com. Our social media accounts. They're all @whistlekick. Take us to the end. So until next time, train hard, smile and have a great day.