Episode 712 - Sensei Karen Valencic
Sensei Karen Valencic is a Martial Arts practitioner, instructor, author, speaker, mechanical engineer, and personal coach.
Notice where you’re tense. Relax where your tension is. It’s like magic happens when you do that. A lot of times I hold tension in my calves, of all places. It’s really interesting because when you really let go of the tension, not only that you’ll have an effect on your partner and yourself, you can actually feel your way more, through the technique.
Sensei Karen Valencic - Episode 712
Finding Martial Arts at a dental conference is quite a unique story. Sensei Karen Valencic, a Mechanical Engineer and Aikidoist, realized at a dental conference that she can use martial arts in order to make conflict resolution swiftly. Sensei Valencic turned her life around by applying Aikido in mastering conflict. Sensei Valencic is the president of the coaching company Spiral Impact and has written a book of the same name about how to master conflict.
In this episode, Sensei Karen Valencic talks about Aikido and how it can be applied to productively deal with conflict. Listen to learn more!
Show Notes
Check out Sensei Karen Valencic’s book on Amazon.
For more information about Sensei Karen Valencic and what she does, visit her website at karenvalencic.com.
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hello, everybody and welcome. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio episode 712. With today's guest Sensei Karen Valencic. I'm Jeremy Lesniak, I'm your host here for the show I founded whistlekick, because I love martial arts. I love traditional martial arts. And that's why we do all the things we do, what do we do? Well, if you go to whistlekick.com, you can find out all the stuff that we do, you're gonna find links to projects, products, to enhance your experience understanding joy, as a martial artist, one of the things we have, yeah, it's a store because we sell stuff and gotta pay the bills somehow. But we sell some pretty cool stuff from training programs, fun apparel, functional apparel, training equipment, you name it, well, not you name it, there's stuff we don't sell. But we sell a lot of different stuff, you should check it out. And if you haven't checked it out recently, you should check it out. And again, use the code PODCAST15, it's gonna get you 15% off anything we have over there. This show Martial Arts Radio gets its own website, whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, we release two brand new shows each and every week. And the goal of the show and really of whistlekick overall.
It's to connect, educate and entertain the traditional martial artists throughout the world. If you want to show your appreciation for what we do, oh, there are a lot of ways you can do it, you can make a purchase, you can tell a friend about us, maybe join the Patreon. If you think the new shows we put out are worth 63 cents apiece, well, then maybe you'll join us at the $5 a month tier. And if you do, you're gonna get exclusive bonus content that you're not going to find anywhere else. patreon.com/whistlekiick, check it out. And if you want the entire list of all the ways you can help us out if you're all in on what we do. Whistlekick.com/family I had a great time talking to Karen Valencic just an absolutely awesome conversation. And we talked about a bunch of different stuff. She's an aikido practitioner, and has taken a lot of the philosophy from her time training into some other things and we talk about that. Now those of you who know me well know I enjoy a good deep at times philosophical conversation and that's what we had today. We're talking about training but we're also talking about life and so much more. And I hope you enjoy it. Here we go. Sensei Karen, welcome to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio.
Karen Valencic:
I am delighted to be here. Thank you, Jeremy.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm happy to have you here since Karen's also my mother by the way. Oh listeners, not the person I'm talking to but my mother's name is Karen.
Karen Valencic:
You know she must be a wonderful person. Our name has gone through some type of trauma.
Jeremy Lesniak:
She has, oh yeah.
Karen Valencic:
I try not to bring it up too much. But it's just like you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I wonder how often people think of that. I thought of it when I started seeing that come up with like, you know, that's like an actual person's name. Right and I know plenty of people's names including my mother. Did they realize that they've just kind of ruined an entire name?
Karen Valencic:
Yeah, you know, I try not to put a lot of energy into it but it is an s like I really have never met a Karen that is actually like what they described by most parents I know are really fine people
Jeremy Lesniak:
Had to be a name, it was just I suppose a random choice. You and the others of your name, I’ll cast the short show.
Karen Valencic:
Well, you know, it seems like that all started around the time that was in Central Park that created that whole thing, but she reported the man so the cops? Oh, yes, yes, yes. And that seems like when it all started, so I don't know why they didn't use the name Ami. But anyway, I mean, I guess it's kind of like the name dick for man. You know, but that's been around for years.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Not at all, what you're here to talk about now. We're gonna talk about a bunch of things. We're gonna talk about your training, we're gonna talk about some book stuff and other work stuff. So let's rewind. I'm right at the top most of the time anyway, let's do that now. So day one, you start training. What tell us about that day? You know, where to go when all that.
Karen Valencic:
I think it was a process for me and I'll tell you the very first time I ever heard about Aikido, and I should tell your listeners that I am a bit of a purist, I have studied only Aikido. Other than that I've done a little bit of Tai Chi and a little bit of Qigong, which isn't really a martial art, but so I've been a traditionalist Aikido for 32 years. The first time I ever heard of Aikido was actually in a Ram Dass’ book, How Can I Help? And it was Terry Dobson's story that many people have heard, which was called a kind word turneth away wrath. And the story really touched me deeply. And that was a really long time ago. And for those of you that don't know about that story, it's almost, if you're interested, you can probably Google it and find it. But Terry Dobson, and Ken were turning, we're turning with turneth away wrath where he's on a train in Tokyo, and he's there over there studying Aikido. And he has a situation with a drunk man that gets on the train and starts really throwing people around, and he decides he needs to get up and defend people. And right before you know, it's a beautiful, beautifully written story that I've actually shared many times by heart, but I'm not going to do that here. But it shows where he was about ready to take a swing. And there was a little Japanese man sitting there right before he said, hey, and he totally deflected the situation.
And then the whole thing just all shifted through no violence at all. And Terry Dobson goes on to say that, you know, what he had been prepared to do with muscle. He heard Aikido done with kind words and compassion. And that just really struck me about the art and of course, back then there was no Aikido here in the Midwest where I am. And so that's where I first heard about it, and was just really intrigued with gosh, I wish I could do that. And, then I was actually the next time that Aikido counter came into my mind. My view was when I attended a dental conference out in Colorado, and Tom Crum, whom, again, I don't know if your listeners know or not, but he authored the book, the magic of conflict. And he was on an aikido list. And he was presenting at this conference. And I have to say that his presentation changed my life. It was one of those moments where everything shifted for me. And I got a lot of clarity about my future. I had at the time I was married, I had two very young children. And it just totally shifted my world in a really positive way. And actually, I started my professional career as an engineer, and I have a degree in mechanical engineering. At the time, I was working for an automotive company Delco Remy, and I was a product engineer. And I was one of the very first women engineers there. And so I decided I was going to make a huge career shift, and I was going to start studying Aikido and I was going to start helping people deal with conflict. That's what I decided and my whole world kind of got shook up at that point.
So, but that wasn't the first. So, it was the first time I was actually in a room with people doing some Aikido movement. And then I came back here from there, and I was so excited. And there was an aikido dojo there. And it was a yoshin con dojo, and I started training with them. And I have to say it was not a pleasant experience for me. I trained with them for about a year. AndI would go to class. And I hate to say this, but I would go to class, and I would say I love Aikido, I hate this class. I mean, that's how I felt about it. And then like a year later, there was someone that had been practicing Aikido, and had been teaching at Indiana University, which is about an hour and a half south of me. And he came to Indianapolis, and I started practicing with him. Now, the first time that I think you're asking me about, he had a small group of guys, and they were renting space in a gymnastics studio. And I went and watched and they were doing all these High Falls. And I mean, I just was so jazzed, I thought, I want to be able to do that. That's what I want to do.
And that's when I really started practicing, and loving my practice and having really what I called teachers that were teaching more in line with what I was interested in learning. And, and I think, you know, listening to some of your other podcast, I think, you know, any art probably, you can have, it really depends on who's teaching it when what aspects of it, they bring out and so, so that was yeah, that was 31 years ago, and that was, you know, my induction and you know, I could hardly I was a terrible dancer at the time and I think one of the things that all my practices done is helped me be more physically coordinated I rarely fall over chairs anymore. And if I do, I can fall easily. So a lot of it, yeah. So that was that was my, that was my and I was so jazzed and then you know, you know, over all these years have been in different places around town, different situations than in garages been in basements been in health clubs been in churches been, you know, in a lot of different spaces where, you know, we create a place where we can train. And so, I've also traveled all over the country training with all kinds of different people over the years. So, yeah, what attracted me to the art is, like I said, I really wanted to be able to, I wanted to be able to enter into difficult situations, and be able to be graceful, have that power with grace. And I also, like many people, really intrigued with martial arts as a human being and kind of always thought, Is it possible for me to do that kind of stuff?
Because, yeah, I mean, I think at this point in my life, you know, I love the fact that I can, I can still roll, I can still, and a lot of times when I'm speaking, I'll roll up to the podium. And, I can do that without losing my breath or hurting myself. And I think that's pretty awesome. Great. Yeah. So, I really, My thing that with Aikido, I really wanted to do was somehow, you know, a lot of people might study martial arts for self defense, or because they're afraid or they liked the exercise. And whenever I'm teaching, I always like to ask people what it was that attracted them to Aikido. Because it's always different. It's always different. And I think, you know, it goes between some people who just want to learn how to fall down and get up. Some people want exercise and stretching, and kind of the aerobic aspect of it. Some people want something more spiritually oriented. And some people have been practicing other arts and are tired of getting beaten up. So I think that might be the most primary place where people come to practice if I've been doing this or that, and I'm too old to do that anymore. I want to do something, I want to do something that's so hard on my body. And of course, Aikido can be hard on your body as well.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You mentioned something a couple times: this idea of learning Aikido to these were exactly your words, but essentially diffused conflict. And I find when someone's bringing up something multiple times, it suggests that the opposite was something in their lives. Was there, did you grow up with a lot of conflict or anything like that?
Karen Valencic:
No, I grew up, you know, I grew up in a wonderful family, where my father was an engineer, my mom was a biology teacher, and I had two brothers. And we sat down together as a family every day at five o'clock. And so we had a solid family structure, but that was their attention. Yes. Was there? You know, frustration? Yes. I mean, like most middle class families, you have to go through things. And, so I think I kind of took on a role in my family of wanting to make everybody happy. And maybe that's because I was the only daughter or whatever I was, I was a middle child, I was a middle child. And so I spent most of my life trying to make everybody happy. And of course, that's a losing battle. So I can't say I had a trip.
I'm not gonna say I had a traumatic upbringing. And that's, I mean, I feel really grateful when I know what a lot of other people have gone through. And I but I also felt like I I think when when you feel like you never went to argument, you know, I think that's, it's like when you have a good viewpoint and you can't get yourself hurt and you know, when I actually was introduced Aikido, I was married and and I married someone that had was very was older than me and also was had incredible verbal skills. And, and I frequently when we would disagree on things I would frequently leave feeling just frustrated, and he would think everything was fine. And then the next day, I would bring it up again, and he'd be like, I thought we've we settled all this and it was just like I found, you know, even with a lot of therapy. I never felt like I could find my voice quite right. And I've learned that through my practice of Aikido.
And it's like how do you show up and enter into a relationship without losing yourself? And for me, that's that to me, and I'm in a sentence is what Aikido is, is how do I show up? How do I engage it? I can bring with me what I'd like to bring with me and bring the rest of myself back. And so for me, that's what that practice is about is really creating my own presence. And, and I think, I think the whole aspect of entering, it was probably my biggest area of learning is how do you really enter into something that's scary. And I had some fabulous teachers and practice partners that really allowed me to encourage me to really enter hard. And so that Yeah, and so you know, over the years, and your listeners don't know this yet, but I've actually written a book and a second edition that I call spiral impact, which is all about how you master conflict. And it's not about resolving conflict or managing conflict, it's really about mastering conflict, because the fact is, we're surrounded by conflict. And if we're not, that, that means we're, we're isolated, and we're not learning. And if we're isolated, we'll probably have conflict with ourselves.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think we all know what internal conflict feels like. Yeah, right. I think sometimes those are the worst ones, because you can't win. No, you're always losing an internal conflict.
Karen Valencic:
You're right, you're right. And, you know, and it's fascinating to see what's going on in the world today. And with, particularly with people, you know, and I have found it's just fascinating how divided we have become, and I, I really feel like, you know, you can't force people to engage with you that don't want to, in a productive way, but but I have found, I think these skills are more important than they've ever been in my lifetime. And you know, I've been around a while.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, sadly, I don't see it going away.
Karen Valencic:
No, I don't either. I don't either, at least not for a little while.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think we've got some more work to do. Now, you talked about the difference between mastering conflict, and you use two other terms, you know, using conflict, et cetera? Well, it sounds like that was something you've talked about before. So could you kind of break that down? What do those differences look like?
Karen Valencic:
Yeah, yeah. So you know, because I speak a lot to business audiences. And so if you were to, if you if I were to do a Google search in terms of what kind of keywords do I want to have, people are typing in conflict management, and conflict resolution. And, those in you know, and for me, both of those words, particularly management implies, we got to get rid of this, we got to get rid of this. And so, and I find that people tend to, they tend to have different choices, some people just will do whatever they can to avoid conflict. And, you know, those are our, our comedies, you know, if you look at the funny shows, they're all people avoiding conflict, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
To disastrous results, usually. Right, right. It comes when I watch, and I just, I'm sometimes literally, but usually in my head saying, but if you just spent an ounce of effort communicating it, avoiding this, right, or making this painfully humorous result at the end.
Karen Valencic:
Right, right. And when I go into an organization, a lot of times, I'll tell the leadership, you know, when you think about it, people have learned their communication and their conflict skills through usually their family. And there aren't that many functional families out there, or our entertainment or media. And there aren't very many good examples of, quite frankly, constructive conversation is necessarily entertaining and doesn't draw people in. But that's not really how you want to run a business or run your life. So because it's exhausting. But yeah, management is kind of like, okay, and it's interesting, because years ago, there was a company that hired me and I would come in quarterly and I would do these two day training programs and conflict. I called it using conflict creatively back then. And I went through phases where people wanted to come because they knew that was part of their development. And then I went through a phase where people would send people because they wanted, they felt like they needed it. So people would come.
They felt like they were being punished because they had handled conflict badly. It's so funny how that word conjures up a lot for us. But, but when you think about it, and I do a program I call it momentum at the corner of conflict change and innovation, you know, those three things conflict change and innovation, you don't have, you don't have one without the other two, that you it doesn't exist. And so most people want to innovate. Most people want other people to change, but they resist their own change. And all of those things create more conflict. And the conflict is I mean, you can see what the pandemic is, how many innovations have been come forth through that conflict of the virus. So, those three things are really, really intertwined. And if you don't, if you don't allow conflict, then you don't allow the innovation to come forth. And so, but it's got to be what I call innovative conflict, and most people think of destructive conflict. So. So that's the difference.
So, Jeremy, we're, most people watching this are probably listening.
But how I define conflict, and I'm going to show you, but I'm going to describe this to your listeners, our listeners. But if you take both of your fists and push them together, that tension is conflict. And what makes it creative or innovative depends on how hard, how hard, how fast or how long that pushes. And so what I teach people is you got to have the, you gotta have that engagement to push. But then what you do is you spiral, and Aikido is all based on a lot of fiber, and that's where it comes in. Yeah, right. And that's where that comes from. And that's where you can start influencing and collaborating. Because now you're, you're moving in the same direction. And so and that's all Aikido is really about, how do we blend, and you know, there's that beginning of learning to blend. But then there's the more subtle place where you actually can help fill, you know, you can feel a person center and kind of move with that. And it's really magical when you can do that. And so, in my work and in companies, I've created a model, I call it spiral impact that really puts that into a form that people can practice in their work. And it's simple, it's a simple thing.
And when they can see that demonstrated, they really get it. I mean, people really get how the fact that being confrontational, doesn't get them anything that they want. And at the end of the day, it's what is it that you want? Are you getting it or are you not? And if you're fighting for it, usually you're not. You might get it in the short term, but you don't get it in the long term. So that's my deal. Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting, too, as a woman, and I'm not a hefty big boned woman, I'm a fair boned individual, tall and kind of willowy. And I find that for me, in my Aikido practice, it's to my advantage, because I cannot muscle my way through technique. I just don't have learned it the right way you couldn't do? I do and I am so aware of that with many of the men that I practice with it. I have an advantage, in a sense, because I can't force technique. I have to get it. I have to get it. Right. And I think that's an advantage. Yeah, so I did not enter my martial arts practice, feeling like, I need to be able to defend myself on the streets, or, you know, I really came in from, you know, I'm here I was an automotive engineer, and I just really want it to be able to enter into my world and be able to have a positive impact, and be able to be heard and be able to influence influence in a in a way and you know, influence can be really manipulative, actually. But I wanted to be able to do that.
And, it's exciting to be able to be at a point in my life where I know how to do that and be able to voice that and show up and, and, and I think also Aikido done well, there's a certain amount of training that comes with the empathy because if you really want to an end, I think there's I think there's layers and I'll say agree it and I'll say, you know, unfortunately, a lot of people jump around and don't stay with something for long enough. And I will say that a big turning point for me in my practice came after 20 years. And I will say I practice because I'm gonna continue now that the pandemic has changed things for all of us, but I but you know, even then I had it. Did online stuff? I have mats in my basement, I do rolls every day on my carpet. I mean, I'm, I stay pretty active with the movement. But, it was 20 years of consistency, I'm talking three to five days a week of practicing that I had a really amazing breakthrough. That just totally shifted my entire experience of Aikido.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And we're gonna talk about that.
Karen Valencic:
I will.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay, good. Okay, good. Because that was a beautiful setup, but I was starting to get afraid that you were just going to move on?
Karen Valencic:
No, no, I want to hear about this secret that I can't share. No, I'll tell you. And, I should precede this by saying I am going to tell this, I'm going to tell this story. But I have had so many wonderful people teaching me along the way. And I consider almost everyone that I've practiced with as a teacher. So there's been people that are senseis at the front of the mat. And there's also people that I train with. So I feel like 20 years of practice set me up to the experience of this one piece. But there was a teacher and he's, he's now been deceased, I think for 10 years now, which is mind blowing to me. And Kevin [00:26:23-00:26:25] Sensei, he was from Chicago, he was one of Satomi sensei's top students. And Kevin, Kevin was, he's he, I mean, he really lived. Aikido was from my, at least from my perspective, really truly his life. And he at that point in his life actually had started practicing Systema, and was going to Russia and, he started really taking some of those concepts and putting them into his Aikido training.
And, he, I went up to a seminar, and it was in June. And there were only a handful of people there, there might have been five people in the seminar. And it was such a rich experience. And Kevin actually, he I showed up there and he was kind of a quiet kind of awkward gunner guy. And he gave us a changed personality. And it was just like I said to the guys, what's up with Kevin, he's so friendly. And, and they said, you know, he came back from Russia, like a changed person. And you know, he was really teaching in a way that was so deep, it was so deep. And I think a lot of people that practice Aikido thought he was just a little off, but he really was talking about structure and flow and, and really the nuances of how we're walking and, but the thing, and he had us doing some of these exercises, and what I really got in his thing was how little well, I guess how little my physical movement had to do with my success in technique, compared to how relaxed I was.
And if he would do this thing where someone you know, grab, do a wrist grab, and then the assignment wasn't to figure out a way to do the wrist lock, the assignment was to notice where you're tense, relax where your attention is. And it's just like magic happens when you do that. And it's like, a lot of times I hold tension in my calves of all places. And it was just like, just really interesting because when you let go of the tension, not only you have an effect on your partner, and yourself, and you can actually feel your way more through the technique than if you try to do a prescribed movement that's really gross. So it's really more of that internal, that internal aspect of Aikido that really just can make an afternoon go by in a flash, I mean, it was just was so engrossing to me, and so I think not everybody practices Aikido that way not everybody values, practicing Aikido that way but for me, that was is where the magic is in the practice. And so that was a real turning point for me. And that was about 10 years ago, 12 years ago, now, I guess.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, did it change now obviously. We could spend hours unpacking that, but a lot of it was gonna be lost without, you know, physical demonstration and partner work and things like that. So absolutely. Let's take it from a little bit more of a surface perspective. How could we call it an epiphany realization?
Karen Valencic:
Yeah, I guess we could call it that. That was kind of like the first time I was introduced to it with Tom Crum. It was like time stood still, it was like, oh, wow, I get this world shift. And yeah, for him. For me, it was.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So I would imagine on the other side of a world shifting event like that, how you practice your Aikido must have changed. And that's what I'm curious about. What were you doing differently? Were you, in your practice? Because it sounds like, as you said, you're very disciplined. But you're not going to keep doing the same things in the same way.
Karen Valencic:
Right? No, no, those changes look like it is actually relaxing more, when I'm practicing. Letting go of that precision of I've got to do it this way. And, approaching my practice more from a feeling state, which is, someone grabs ahold of you, instead of, you know, instead of thinking, oh, I need to do this technique, it's more relaxing into it, and trying to connect with the other person. So because I think essentially, Aikido is not supposed to hurt people, and certainly there are people that practice that hurt people, you know, so, but if I think, you know, really masters at that, at Aikido, you're not feeling those ganks on your bones, you're feeling more the floor dropping out, and, so for me, whenever I practice, it's always really about that focus of, of connection, and feeling the connection.
And it's like, it's not just yanking somebody to get them off center, but it's really kind of connecting with them in a way that you can kind of more influence their movement than forcing it. Because I think, sometimes I mean, because, you know, you could do, you know, across, you know, we call it yoke mannucci, which is, you know, as a tack to the side of the head. And, you know, and I can flow with that. But at some point, I gotta have a connection with my partner. And a lot of the time, it's easy just to throw them, but this I want, I want my partners to feel like instead of feeling thrown, feel like they've just been dropped gently, that becomes my goal. And, and so yeah, and there's no end to the joy, I think that comes from practicing like that. It's so much more fun, then drilling down and technique is so important. And I don't mean to discount that you kind of got to, and that's why I think it's important to stay with something a long time because I could never have gotten to where I was, had I not put in the time before. And so, how do you know how to get there?
And I also personally believe that in my practice, you know, I practice meditation and breathing, when I'm not practicing Aikido. I mean, I think those are things, a lot of times people want to show up and be able to do, you know, all these things, but it really requires that, that everyday practice of being present with yourself. So I think those are all really important parts of the practice that not all dojos spend time with. And most of the dojos I've had ongoing practice with don't tend to spend a lot of time focusing on those particular specific things. But I have, you know, my initial work with Tom Crum, he was very big into breathing, and meditation. And we would start all his classes with 20 minutes of breathing, and 20 minutes of meditation. And, you know, that puts you in a really fine place to begin.
Jeremy Lesniak:
One of the things you're talking about with what I'm hearing, these aren't your words, but I'm hearing partnerships. You know, when you are training with someone, when you are defending yourself, it's partnership and the more that you try to create space. There's almost this paradox because, you know, in martial arts we're generally taught when we think about self defense, when you can run away, right, right, but up until that point, in a lot of settings, I'm not even gonna say say most or many but I'm not gonna say most certainly not saying all but a bunch. You're at greater risk when that person is farther away. You've likely had far more experiences than I have. But I'm sure you know what I'm talking about here, where you're working with someone who's just so good, their eyes can be closed.
Doesn't matter what you do. You know, they know where you're moving before you do, right. And so most of us are somewhere along that path. But we're not good enough to, to react instantly yet, if we can close that distance. If we can have less time for the other person, if we can have more hands on them. Yeah, we get a better understanding in grappling work. This is often discussed, as you know, when you're attacking, you're trying to create space when you're defending you're trying to reduce space. Yeah, and I don't come from a grappling background. I don't come from an aikido background, though. I've dabbled penny bits in both. I'm more of a stand up Karate guy, Taekwondo guy. But the same principles apply there that if your opponent's all the way out there, are they kicking? Are they punching? Are they running at you? Are they picking up a brick? And yet if they're right there in front of me? Yeah, it's scary. Yeah, but they have far fewer options. And I'm actually safer.
Karen Valencic:
Exactly. Well, it's that old saying of keeping your friends close. But keep your enemies closer. Right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We know, very eloquent there. Yeah.
Karen Valencic:
Yeah. And, you know, I think I wrote a blog about this a long time ago. But I have two daughters. And they were both in Boston for a while going to school. And we were we were, this, to me, illustrates the point we were, we were out downtown, and we were coming back to the suburbs where they lived. And we were on the green line, anyone that knows Boston, while the green line sometimes just stops, and just says, trains out of commission. You just get out wherever you are. And so we were in that situation. And we got out and it was dark. And we were gonna just walk back to where we were. And it was interesting, because there were some seedy kinds of bars around the corner there. And then we kind of were walking up a hill.
Jeremy Lesniak:
the seedy bars in the outskirts of Boston. I went to school in Worcester. Oh, did you see the bar?
Karen Valencic:
You know, so here I am, my daughters are there and here, you know, they're in their 20s. And I'm, you know, their mom, and I'm, so there's a man who starts following us. And, and so I am, I'm thinking, Okay, we are in my you could feel I could feel my daughter's tense. And I thought, okay, so they think their mom is going to protect them. Because I'm a martial artist, right? I'm thinking, oh, so but you know, what I did is I applied exactly what I teach. And exactly what we're talking about, I relaxed. I literally turned around, and I walked with this man. And I talked to him. And I asked him if he was from around here, and he wasn't really interested in the conversation. But I made a choice rather than being fearful and contracted. I just turned around. And I asked, you know, I started asking him questions about where we were, and then he just kind of went off to the side. And I don't know that he was a real threat. But it was, you know, what do you do in that circumstance? And that's what I chose to do.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And stop presenting yourself as a potential victim, you know, because what victim is going to have the confidence to do that?
Karen Valencic:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What you weren't the easy target, whether or not it was actually going to happen. Yeah. Seems like a sensible action to me.
Karen Valencic:
It seems sensible to me it works. I mean, whatever. Who knows, you never know what the other things were. Because you didn't experience some but exactly it's about clothes. It's about closing the space. So yeah, exactly. And that's kind of scary. And that's what I was talking about earlier about learning how to be me, you know, and it's you know, real me is entering and I keep it in Aikido terms. And so that's partly as part of a Remi is punching, you know, coming in, but it's also moving into a punch and moving in with it. And that's a scary place to be. But like you said, if you're not in the same area, you're safe, but if you're at swinging distance, you're really vulnerable from that standpoint. So, yeah, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now, I find that anytime someone is drawing correlations between martial arts and something else, right, like for you, we're talking about Aikido and conflict. And you've certainly brought Aikido into your philosophies on conflict. But it's likely a two way street, what is coming from writing and lecturing and understanding of conflict, and these corporate and other worlds, it's coming back to inform your Aikido practice and understand it.
Karen Valencic:
Oh, yeah, you know, what I so realize is that there's this really an importance to the somatic method of learning, which is, which what I mean is involving the body and the breath, and not just the, you know, a lot of times in corporations, we want to just have a formula that we can put into place that if this happens, you do this, and it's all very cognitive. And the fact is, is that we're, you know, we're very emotional, emotional, spiritual, physical beings. And we bring all that to work. And, I think, for me, the practice is always around trying to stay fluid and keeping my, you know, keeping my options open. What Darwin said wasn't the strongest that survives, it's the most adaptable that survives. And so and I think, you know, in this environment that we're in now, it's the people adapting to all the changes are the people that survive, it's not necessarily what we call traditionally the strongest. So yeah, I mean, so dinosaurs are dead, but…
Jeremy Lesniak:
As far as we know.
Karen Valencic:
Yeah. As far as we know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
As far as we know.
Karen Valencic:
Yeah. Today I will answer your question. You wanted to know how I bring my work stuff back to my practice. Well, I always get inspired when I'm practicing, I always do. And if I've got some kind of, because I say master conflict, I don't mean that I get it perfect all the time. I'm continually practicing. And I love what George Leonard said, when he said, mastery, master the true masters not, it's not perfection. It's the true Master who tries and fails and tries and fails again. And they stay in the game. And that's how I define master conflict. So and I have to say that, you know, I don't always get it, right. But when I recognize where I've gone off, I always will come back and take on my part of whatever it was that happened.
And, I'm totally willing to do that. And sometimes it takes me being on a map, practicing to work through my own stuff. So yeah, so I think, for me, the practice has really saved my life in so many ways. Because I don't process it. I mean, it really has and, you know, I've got one, one woman that's practiced with us for a long time. And she read my first book, and she said, You know, I never thought about how to apply this to regular life. And I think that's something that happens with a lot of people that are in martial arts thinking, how do you apply this in everyday life? You know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It ends when they walk out when they bow off the mats, you know, they put it all down, which, you know, I haven't read everything. Sensei wrote, but I feel like I've read enough to know that, you know, he'd be shaking his head hearing someone say that, because it seemed like that was the whole point.
Karen Valencic:
Right? Right. That's what I've taken from my practice. And again, people teach, and people practice for different reasons. And none of them are wrong. They're just different. And so for me, it's really a practice of my own self development. Plus, I love the movement. I love the fact that, you know, I can, I can get up and off the ground easily. I love, you know, just the connection with people. I love figuring it out, you know, as a mechanical engineer. I am, I guess we could talk about, you know, beginning Aikido is a lot like Newtonian physics, there's, you know, it's vectors. You know, it really is and I think, at some point, and perhaps at that 20 year mark, for me, it becomes more quantum physics where you're working with something that's a little bit more nuanced and dependent on other things, and it's not so much force following force blindly. It's being a little bit more cognizant than that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I like that analogy, because I've certainly worked with amazing martial artists who seemed like they were in two places at once. It's like, can you just hear how are you also there?
Karen Valencic:
Yeah, right. Right. Exactly. So I think, yeah, I've always thought that I haven't said this for a while but see to me when people say well is Aikido a defense of art? You know, my thing is it's an art of self development. And really that development to me is that I develop myself enough that I don't prompt an attack, you know that I become that person in the room. That's not prompting, attack. And so, and that, I guess that takes my place in my family to another level of the peacekeeper this way. In this way, I wouldn't be baking cookies to make everybody happy. I've just been showing up and being present.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm curious about that situation with your daughters, man. Did they feel any inspiration because you haven't mentioned if they trained what I'm getting the sense that they don't? Did that? Give them any inspiration?
Karen Valencic:
No. No, I guess that's, that's the thing. Children. You know, I think both of my kids practiced a little bit as they were growing up. And they certainly know how important it is to me. They really understand my concept of spiral impact. They get that and my one daughter is actually a public defense attorney. And she will say, and I said good for you, you know, because at the end of the day, being able to apply that to your everyday life is what's really, really, really important. It's, but no, my kids did not become Aikido practitioners. And yeah, I guess what do you do?
Jeremy Lesniak:
You have a will?
Karen Valencic:
I'm not sure. No. Well just hope that they find their own path. Because, you know, I mean, it's not a path for everybody. Yeah, it's not a path for everybody. Although, you know, I think that there's so much to learn. And I, and I do know, when I speak at conferences and stuff that the Aikido demonstration is so eye opening for people. And when you get the fact that, you know, it's it's the movement, it's it's not going head to head, it's, it's moving in and with that, that gives you more more ability to collaborate and influence and not fight is, and that's where power is, you know, I talk about that the difference between power and force. Force is a punch, power is a rotation. And, you know, we're, you know, in a world that's fairly happy to be punching people. Actually, I've been thinking a lot about who will slap them, and I think I might be doing a live stream to talk about that a little bit. But that was, you know, I think it was an out picture of what a lot of people feel in the world right now. Is it just like slapping someone?
Jeremy Lesniak:
If that had happened 10 years ago? I don't think there would be, there would have been much debate about it, I think it would have been a very simple assessment. For most people. This is a man who has more than 99 points whatever percent of the world seemingly has a storybook life and ignored a lesson that we were all taught in preschool. But I think you're right, that so many of us are so frustrated, we don't have the capacity to process that we cheer that on, we project our own desires onto everyone around.
Karen Valencic:
Because it seems like a simple solution. You know, it seems fast. But the repercussions, as Will Smith knows, are huge. You do something like that. But you know, I think, you know, I also think that there's a lot of people that may not be physically slapping somebody, but they are with their words, in other ways in our culture. And if that is, how is that? How do we accept that? Really?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I mean, words are harder to defend.
Karen Valencic:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I can't just step out of range. I can't close the distance. I can't spiral. Words. I can. I really have one to two choices. One is to plug my ears and the other is to try to not let it bother me.
Karen Valencic:
Yeah. And particularly if it's coming from where you're not in the same room, or on the same phone or on the same zoom call. It's when it's when it's just out there. So yeah. Yeah, because there are ways I mean, that's what I teach. Because, you know, in business, rarely do people punch each other. At least with the group. Yes, that's more of a rarity.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We've heard stories on this show.
Karen Valencic:
Yeah, it's not on theme. But you know, I mean, I work with a lot of teams that have done a lot of work in health care. And, you know, people can get pretty frustrated, but they don't tend to hit each other, although that does happen. But that's not really why I'm there. Or they're around when they're just, you know, frustrated and angry and then things get passive aggressive and aren't dealt with directly, or are not dealt with, in a way that really brings everybody forth.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So let's have a bit of a commercial here. You know, tell us about your book, tell us about your speaking. You know, there may be some folks listening to this who are interested in your book, they want to know where to get it. There may be some folks who say, you know, I'm responsible for bringing in a speaker for this, whatever for this event? Well, she sounds great. How do they contact you? Take it away.
Karen Valencic:
Okay, so my book is called Spiral Impact. And that can be… I wrote the original in 2007. And I, actually, on March the 17th 2020, I released the second edition, which I call the black belt edition. And it's a black timing. By the way, I know I was the best seller in eight categories. So I was really pleased. Yeah, it did it, it worked out. But it was just bizarre that it all happened to them on the same day, because that was the first day of lockdown here where I am. And so that book is available anywhere that you get books. It's available in hardback paperback and Kindle. And it's and that book is really, it's really a guidebook and I have a nice combination, I start every chapter out with connecting the content to my Aikido practice. And then I bring in some concepts that are applicable in terms of how you do that. And, then I have some short stories that are about people that I've worked with, and how they applied it, or didn't apply it. And it's an easy read, and, and wanting to always to be a very practical thing.
And, so that's available anywhere that you buy books, and my website, which is Karen… My website, you can go to spiralimpact.com, which is much easier to spell than my name, karenvalencic.com, they go to the same place. And I have, you know, I have content there I have, you know, stuff I do. You know, I do consulting, I do speaking, I do coaching, and you know, all of that type of thing. And I love speaking with groups, because I'll come in, kick off a conference. And you know, it's not your typical, sit there and listen to somebody, you know, I get people up, I usually invite somebody out of the audience to come take a swing at me, and we talk about, well, what do you do?
So, a lot of times my work is talked about later on, in the conference, because everybody can relate to it. It's like, you know, you just did what, what norm did Karen or whatever. So it's, you know, out pictures when I guess it's a little bit like when I say Will Smith, the slap, you know it. Pictured what people are thinking in their world. And so anyways, I do that. And so my website is probably the easiest place to get a hold of me. I have contact information there. But it's also Karen@spiralimpact, or karenvalencic.com. And I'm on LinkedIn. And I'm also on Twitter, although I don't do much on Twitter.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So once you're around, like you're hard to find. We'll have all this stuff in the show notes.
Karen Valencic:
Yeah, yeah, I'm not hard to find and always happy. I've got a thing on my website. And if you want to schedule a time to talk, I'm always happy to talk with people about what they've got going on. So yeah, that's it. Yeah. Awesome.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Awesome. Yeah. Well, thanks for being here. Sounds great. Yeah. And you checked on my end boxes with that question. So that's why I seem a little bit out of sorts. Normally, I'd say okay, and then we do this, but you did all that. So. So we've just had one more thing before we stop today and that is how do you want to leave it? What are your final words to the folks listening?
Karen Valencic:
You know, being a martial arts podcast, I really just want to invite your listeners to think about their practice, if they're practicing. And if they're not practicing, maybe think the same thing in terms of how is your practice helping you grow? And how can you actually deepen your practice? Or how committed are you to it? Because I think those are all things that are so very important. And like I said, I got my biggest 20 years in and I don't plan on stopping anytime soon. So I guess that would be how I would leave it and also just to recognize how you deal with conflict? How do you deal with conflict? Or do you try to use force with it? Do you know the subtleties of how to spiral with it?
And, you know, in a nutshell, and I'll leave you the five keys to spiral impacting that are 30,000 foot, those are, first recognize when you've got conflict, and then choose one of the following four. Turn your statements you're making about it to questions and or acknowledgments, or both. It's centered. Think about what your intention is. And that's the thing that most people forget about with conflict is what's their intent? And the fourth thing is support. How do you support yourself? Who's your support system? What are you reading? What is it helping you with, you know, all those things. And so that's how I teach people how to spiral impact and bring that martial aspect to their life. So, they have power with grace.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Like I said, at the top, awesome conversation, philosophical, we're talking about so many different things. And I just love these stories where people find martial arts and then martial arts change their entire worldview. And that's what I heard. So, Karen, thanks for coming on. I had a great time. I'm sure we'll talk again soon. I appreciate it. Had to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. For all the show notes, that's where you're gonna find videos, links, social media, pictures, and more. Not just for this episode, but for every single one we've ever done. If you're down to support us, in all the work that we do, remember, you have lots of options. You could share an episode, you could leave a review, you could tell a friend, or maybe contribute to our Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick.
And you know, I'd love to visit your school teacher seminar. Can we make that happen if you're up for having me? Just let me know. Well, we'll find a way we'll make that work. Don't forget the code PODCAST15 gets you 15% off at whistlekick.com And if you've got a topic or guest suggestions or you want to reach out about a seminar, Jeremy@whistlekick.com. Until next time, train hard, smile, and have a great day.