Episode 708 - Gene Myers
Gene Myers is a Martial Arts practitioner, Psychologist, and fellow Podcaster.
I found that hand to hand combat was really interesting to me. You could really improve yourself in any kind of combat. It kind of tells you who you are as a person, can you lose graciously, things like that…
Gene Myers - Episode 708
Starting a podcast is not an easy feat but would you believe it that the very FIRST Martial Arts podcast started as an after-class weekend affair? Gene Myers is one of the original hosts of Karate Cafe, which was verified as the first martial arts podcast. Gene Myers has been training in Chibana-ha Shorin-Ryu karate and Hakutsuru Kenpo since 1993. Gene recently retired after 30 years of serving people with developmental disabilities and psychiatric disorders.
In this episode, Gene Myers talks about how the Karate Cafe podcast started as well as his journey into the Martial Arts. Listen to learn more!
Show Notes
Listen to the Karate Cafe Podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
How's it going, everyone? Welcome. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, Episode 708. With my guest today, Gene Myers. I'm Jeremy Lesniak, and here on Martial Arts Radio, we bring the best martial arts podcast we possibly can. We're constantly improving, constantly looking for ways to make everything that we're doing better. And if you want to see all the things that we do, well head on over to whistlekick.com. And you're going to see all the things that we've got going on. If my voice is new to you, I'm Jeremy Lesniak. I'm your host for the show. I founded whistlekick, because I'm a passionate traditional martial artist. And that's why we do all the things that we're doing. And if you find some stuff that might be missing in your life, you may want to pick something up at whistlekick.com. We've got everything from training programs to apparel, training equipment, so check that over there, check that out over there. And if you use the code PODCAST15 it's gonna save you 15%. Now, the show whistlekick Martial Arts Radio gets its own spot, its own website, whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. And if you head over there, you're gonna find things like transcripts, and videos, and all kinds of good show notes, stuff related to this, and every other episode we've done, they're all available.
If you were to sit down and listen to them all in a row, you would die, because there are hundreds and hundreds of hours of interviews and topic driven conversations that we've had over the last seven years. What's the goal? Why do we do it well, to connect, educate and entertain you, the traditional martial artist of the world, if that goal, if the things we're doing mean something to you, you have a number of ways that you can support us and show your appreciation, you can make a purchase, you could also tell a friend about us or perhaps join the Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick. Okay, it's a place to go. If you think maybe two bucks a month is a good entry point, you're gonna get to know what upcoming episodes we have, you're gonna get a back channel to the team. And it goes up from there. It's a wonderful value, as evidenced by the fact that people don't stop contributing to the Patreon very often. And if you want the entire list of all the ways that you can help us out in our mission, as well as a kind of a constantly shifting batch of behind the scenes content and other fun stuff.
Go to whistlekick.com/family. It's not linked anywhere you got to type it in. But it's worth it. We change it weekly. Gene Myers today's guest was one of the originals, one of the first people involved in the martial arts podcasting world. And I had a wonderful time talking to him, of course about those beginning times, but more so about him and his time training and what he does and why he does and really, as you would all come to expect his story. So here is my conversation with Gene Myers. Enjoy. Hey, how are you doing?
Gene Myers:
I'm a little intimidated. Why? Well, you know, you've had some pretty accomplished martial artists sign in the 600 some odd episodes you had.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I know. How do you think I feel? Well, when asked to talk to him.
Gene Myers:
I'm small potatoes compared to those folks. So, I know you're not.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yes, I am. The only reason this show is mine is because the guy that I asked to do it went and had a stroke and almost died. Oh my god. Yeah. Like, true story. Cuz I went, well, we kind of have to do this. I don't have anybody else. So I guess I'll friggin do it.
Gene Myers:
You've been doing this a long time.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Seven years.
Gene Myers:
Wow. Now, seven years later, what's that? Twice a week to write?
Jeremy Lesniak:
We started twice a week with episode 39. So, not quite a year before we went to two.
Gene Myers:
Okay. Wow.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You were doing it so much. I mean, you started a decade before I did.
Gene Myers:
Well, yeah. But I mean, no, it's about 2000-2003. I think.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay. So, 12 years before I did.
Gene Myers:
You had Paul and Danna, and yeah. Not too awful long ago, and they kind of know a little bit of the background, but yeah, so. And 2003, I was training with a gentleman, Pete [00:04:38-00:04:40]. And the two of us would talk a lot about martial arts and various related subjects and it failed Friday nights, Friday evenings, we would have blackbelt class and very often we go out afterwards a bunch of us you know, that attended class and we bring our significant others and we go to a local tavern and, you know, [00:05:06-00:05:08] and down some chicken wings and, you know, talk about the martial arts. So, Pete had this great idea. At the time podcasting was in its infancy. So, and Peter being the technical wizard dead, he is thought, geez, it'd be nice to record this, because we can't be the only martial artists around that do this kind of thing. And maybe there, if we recorded it and had a forum, people would join in, we could converse with other people, you know, all over the world, maybe. And so that's how we started. Some of those set early sessions. We were a little bit overserved, let's say. But still, they were fun. And Pete sold the show to Paul Wilson. Couldn't have found a better person to take over.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Some good stuff.
Gene Myers:
Yeah. I had the honor of staying on with him for a little while. Dan Williams joined us later on and only added to the quality of the show, Dan's more of an eclectic martial artist, whereas Paul is in
Isshin-ryū karate is of a different lineage than mine. And, the three of us had at it for a little bit, but you know, life being what it is, I dropped out and turned the show over to them. And they've been doing great ever since. So interesting. We were, according to Peter's research, the first martial arts podcast period. And there was some controversy about that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I tried to remember, because I acknowledged the controversy. I'm trying to remember if we talked about that, on the show, like on air, or if we talked about that off air.
Gene Myers:
Well, if you might have spoken about it here. But in case you didn't just just to refresh your memory chart, there was a couple of guys down in Texas that came on maybe about a couple, two or three months after us that were claiming that they were the very first podcast, martial arts podcast. And, we kind of challenged them on that. So they had a little bit of resentment. I mean, it wasn't a competition, they did their thing. We did ours. But you know, as I recall, they were a couple of them, they may have been excellent karate practitioners. But a couple of arrogant guys I thought, and I told him I saw in an email.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm sure that went really well. Oh, people are being told in their areas.
Gene Myers:
Well, like I say, they may have been proficient, you know, beyond all expectations. But I didn't care for their attitude. And, as a listener, I felt I had the right to give him some feedback. They were asking for feedback all the time. And so the very next show, they really taught me a new one. Which was fun to listen to.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, arrogant being your opinion, but it sounds like that response indicates a great deal of sensitivity.
Gene Myers:
Oh, yeah. I mean, they weren't. They weren't humble by any means. And they made great fun of my rank. It was the fourth time at the time.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm so sick of that crap. I can't even tell you how sick of that crap I am. Really? Because yeah, because your opinion is less meaningful on a non technique, non training element. Because if you were a 10th on and you called America, they would have listened. Whatever.
Gene Myers:
I don't know about that. They don't seem to take feedback very well. But anyway, that's it. It was fun. I enjoy listening to martial arts podcasts. You know, the karate cafe and you guys when I can.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's good stuff. We're in good company.
Gene Myers:
Well, that's why I say I was a little intimidated coming on because you've had some very accomplished people that have written books and starred in film and television and one do all these huge tournaments and I'm just a little small potatoes. I'm just, you know, a fifth of that. Practice is really by myself now. My wife and I moved. We were originally from the Syracuse area in the central New York area. And I trained at Finger Lakes, karate and Auburn for years. And about two and a half years ago, my wife and I retired and we moved to Albany, which is probably a little closer to you guys.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Here, you're three hours for me.
Gene Myers:
Yeah. And anyway, there were no schools, no shortage of schools around me. So I either have to go back to, you know, Auburn or there's Isshin-ryū school in Rhode Island. Or Connecticut, I've been there once. It's Marc Spears Dojo.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Is that the closest school of your lineage? Is it all the way from Albany to down there?
Gene Myers:
Yeah. Wow. Pretty much.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Here's a question. And this question comes up a lot. And so it's, please understand, if you listen to the show you understand it, when I ask questions, there is no agenda to my questions other than I'm genuinely asking the question. Sure. It may sound loaded, it's not loaded, why not train something else? Why does it have to be? Or why is it important to you that it is the same lineage of children?
Gene Myers:
Well, I'm 67 years old. And I've been training in this art for about 30 years. And it would be very difficult for me to switch to another style of karate. Only because I'm just, I'm set in my ways. I have trained in other styles, I hold down rank in Hakutsuru, Kempo, White Crane Kempo. And we trained in circle jiu jitsu, which was a derivative of Wally Jay's small circle jiu jitsu. And so I'm not opposed to trying something else. I trained in judo some time ago. But you know, you get to be my age. And, and I've considered it, believe me, I've considered it. And I've sat in on a shoulder kind class, locally. Very good martial artists, excellent show to con practitioners. But the class that I saw in this was just one class, I am not doing full justice here, but I like to study Bunkai.
And, and to me, you know, studying Kata is just the physical performance of the form is only the beginning. You know, you have to delve into the bunk, I fully say, you understand the cut, and I didn't really see any of that in the show dokkan class. Now, like I say, I only saw one class, and I may not be being fair to them. But there was a lot of emphasis on the physical performance of the forms. So, you know, I have considered it. I haven't found one that I'd like other than the shoulder con that I thought I might try. But if I would rather commute, you know, to either to New England, or back to back to Central New York and train there.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There's something to be said for spending leisure time and finding what you like, and furthering that, you know, and that's again, that's why it wasn't a loaded question, it was a genuine question. Because when people move and leave a school that they enjoy, it's not an uncommon experience. And I think hearing different perspectives on how people handle it. I think it's really valuable to the listeners. The only answer as far as I'm concerned, that is a wrong answer is to not train anymore. Right kind of mirrors you know, what's the only wrong move in a self defense situation not moving? Right? Anything is better than nothing. And I think the same thing applies in terms of training and if you're training scratches that itch for you and you're digging what you're doing. I see zero issue with it.
Gene Myers:
Yeah, we finished the house we bought, we finished the basement, that's where I am now. And I'll come down here and there's room enough to move. So I come down and practice kata and, you know, work out down here. But that's one part of training for me. Other parts of training are research. So, you know, it includes books and videos like that. And, I'm always in search of good resources to further my knowledge of the martial arts and self defense. And I'm forever looking for different interpretations of the kata that we study. And it's an interesting pursuit, it keeps you very busy. The only downfall for that for me anyways, I have no partner to train. I use my wife once in a while.
Jeremy Lesniak:
How thrilled is she about that?
Gene Myers:
She objects to the training.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Did she start training? Does she train?
Gene Myers:
No, no, no, she never did. My daughter did. My oldest daughter, Erin in Eisen. In fact, we started together. And she got to be, she got to be pretty good. She got up to her green belt, which is a couple bullet black. And, but then she was more interested in gymnastics and went that way.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sounds like an adolescent early team. Yeah.
Gene Myers:
Yeah, basically. And, which is fine. She did her own thing. And I just stuck with it. And karate for me, in addition to just the self defense aspects. I mean, there's the dough part, which is the self improvement. And then there's the jiu jitsu part, you know, where you're actually learning, you know, are incorporating the self defense techniques into your, into your persona, so to speak. But it's also a social aspect, isn't it? I mean, I was a psychologist for over 30 years. And literally, I was on call 24/7. And I didn't have much of a social life. I mean, we had friends and everything, but we didn't really get together that much. So my social needs were filled by going to class most of the time. And, and, you know, moving here, you know, I don't have that. So, and then, we had a pandemic. Nobody was training anywhere, right? Unless they were doing it virtually. But yeah, it's a social aspect. It's a self improvement aspect. It's learning self defense. All of that. It just feels so much. So many needs that we have. I think in society, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I agree. you mentioned, you started with your daughter. What was the reason?
Gene Myers:
Well, growing up I was kind of a punk.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, we're gonna put this out in audio, and I mean, this complimentary? Would never have guessed that.
Gene Myers:
Oh, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Based on what I'm seeing from you, there's no vibe of being a punk. Please continue.
Gene Myers:
Thankfully, as a kid, I was kind of a jerk. And especially when, in the early grades, I went to Catholic school, and there was no physical education. Now, you gotta remember, this was in the late 1950s. We bought a new house and I transferred to a public school and they had, you know, physical education classes. And I really took to sports. Whereas before I wasn't really interested in and, and that kind of helped me get into improving myself, not just physically but mentally and emotionally. So my physical education really kind of grew up from that. I was always small. I'm only five five. And I was one of the smallest people in my junior high school.
pool, you know, college. So I got picked on a lot. I asked for a lot of it, like I say, you know, some a lot of it was deserved, but I got tired of fighting, you know and getting my ass kicked. So I took up wrestling. They had a wrestling team. And my brother and I joined the wrestling team and we got to be where we were pretty good. But I found that, you know, hand to hand combat was really interesting to me, you could really improve yourself by any kind of combat. It kind of tells you who you are as a person. Can you lose graciously, you know, things like this.
Jeremy Lesniak:
These were things you were realizing even at that age even younger, okay?
Gene Myers:
Yes, yes, yes. So from there, you know, in college, I studied judo for a little while. And I was always interested in karate. Enter the dragon was the movie that really, you know, it really got me going in that. So I tried taekwondo for a while. Not really, my thing. Started in Goshin jutsu karate for a little bit. That was okay. Then, in college, you know, I kind of got away from it. Later on, my family and I were at a festival. And much to my surprise, a guy that I worked with at his karate school was doing a demonstration. And I was completely unaware that he was a karate instructor and came to find out he was very proficient, and, and held a pretty high rank in the showroom. So that's where my daughter and I joined. We were just so impressed with the demonstration that we decided to pursue it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. And was she aware of these things that were kind of in the back of your mind, from your time as a youth? Did she know your history with combat?
Gene Myers:
Not a little bit. Only, like the things that I told her. I mean, you know, I didn't tell her how big a jerk I was. But I told her, you know, you know, I wasn't really the nicest person and, you know, Junior High in high school. But luckily, she was never that way they take after their mother, thankfully. But, yeah, she's still interested in martial arts. But she doesn't have the time for it. I have a granddaughter with special needs who is taking martial arts. Well, she'd been doing that. A little, a little under a year. And I am very proud of her. She's really learning more to be more social, learning to interpret other people's facial expressions and emotions, or coordination is just, you know, really, really improving. So, you know, I'm very happy with that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's great. I think there's really something to be said for, you know, specifically special needs kids, but kids have all types. The vehicle of martial arts allows them to learn within the context of movement. And anybody who's taught a group of kids knows that if you can keep them moving, doesn't matter what it is, you know, recess is one of the easiest things you can do with a group of kids, right? Like, where you get them outside. And let's, you know, let's run a couple laps. And then let's sit down and talk about this thing. If you can keep them moving, you can keep them engaged. And I think we are on the verge as a population of finally trying to get that. I think there are some light bulbs or some switches flipping in here. And my hope is that more and more kids, you know, like your granddaughter will get to experience it.
Gene Myers:
Yeah, yeah, thanks. Research has shown that martial arts can really improve. Special needs kids coordinate Shouldn't their communication, their ability to socialize, it improves their self esteem, much more so than, say soccer or baseball or some other sport. And really, you can, there's no, there is no limit to people with special needs be they, you know, kids or adults. One thing that martial artists think of, or school instructors think of, is that she's I don't, I can't expect as much from somebody with special needs. And that's not true. You know, I mean, they're kids, just like any other kid, they're people, you know. And you may have to tailor your lesson to, to appeal to their strengths. But, it may take longer for them to be proficient in a particular concept or technique. But they'll get there. You just have to persevere. No, no, the person and tailor, like I say, tailor their lesson to what they can do.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Which I think you should be as an instructor, regardless, sure, I've had the opportunity to work with some special needs kids, not over long durations of time, but shorter durations. And I learned very quickly that my assumptions of my own teaching skill were grossly overestimated.
Gene Myers:
Really?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. It's because I think, are much better than adults at reflecting back what you give to them. Right? If you, if you teach them, if you give them an instruction, and you leave a mile wide gap, in the middle of the instruction for them to inject their own understanding, they're going to do it. Sometimes they'll do it to be, you know, a bit of a punk as you've described yourself, but sometimes they're just doing it out of ignorance, you know, they didn't understand what you meant. But I found again, in my limited capacity, that the special needs students were even more directly reflective of what I asked them to do and what I gave them to do. And when I got it right, when I did a good job with it, they nailed it. They did an amazing job. When I didn't, neither of us was happy.
Gene Myers:
We know how to teach. Most of us know how to teach. Some of us do better than others. And some of us do better with kids, some better with adults. But nevertheless, we all know how to basically transmit the information. With people with special needs, you can't be afraid, you're not going to, and I picked this in the spirit when she was attending, you're not going to fix them. They don't need to be fixed. Right? You will fail. But when you do, you just pick it up and try something else. And, you know, the expectation, you shouldn't have to lower the bar for anything when you're working with a person with developmental disabilities, or any kind of disability.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I agree.
Gene Myers:
Don, we had done for example, we had a gentleman that trained with us that had cerebral palsy. And he could walk and he had pretty use of his upper extremities, but you know, his walking was very difficult. But, you know, he was doing kata right along with the rest of us. And once we were doing roundhouse kicks, and people wanted to do it, you know, they wanted to try doing it to the head area, you know, and obviously he couldn't do that. So the standard was, okay, roundhouse kick to the head. Okay, it doesn't tell you how to do that. It just tells you to do that. So he says, I can't lift my leg up, is it okay, tackle the person then roundhouse. You've accomplished the standard. Right? And who's to say that's wrong? It's not wrong. You did what you're what the technique called for. And that seemed to work pretty pretty well. So I guess, adapting your teaching to the person's strengths and weaknesses. If you do that, you don't have to change. You don't have to lower the bar, your expectations can be the same. For those folks. That can be for anyone else.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Totally agree. And of course, you know, you've got the secondary part there where, you know, if you're in a “real situation”, you really want to kick to the head, I'm kicking them in the knee, lower right. And, I like what you're saying here, this idea because this extends beyond special needs or physical disability challenges. Because we're all different, right. And anybody who has been successful teaching for a while knows that they are adapting what they teach how they say what they demonstrate, based on who's in front of them, the composition of the class, or if it's a one on one situations, they're making modifications on the fly, good instructors, recognize do that, that they need to do that the best instructors recognize and are able to do that. And when you're, when you're willing to look at things in that way, that, hey, we're all a little bit different. My roundhouse kicks, not quite gonna look like your roundhouse kick, even if, you know, theoretically, we're good to go with all of our limbs and everything.
We're just there, there are small differences, we have different experiences, it's going to look a little different. And I think when you can take a step back from standardization, because standardization, I think, is what leads to this concept of we have to fix, right, we have to we have to intervene in whatever way that gets from where you are to correct the right way, you know, but that that suggests that something's broken. And I think and that, that, I think is a disservice not only to the individual, but to the beauty of martial arts and helping people move on their own individual path in the direction that they, I mean, we all kind of wander in the same direction, but we're not on the same path.
Gene Myers:
That's for sure. Yeah. Our instructors, I had the privilege to train with [00:31:59-00:32:02], who's a 10th time in the Isshin-ryū Shabana lineage. And he would say, make karate your own. And by that he meant, as you point out, we're all different. Some of us are big, some of us are small, you know, and there's an infinite different number of differences between us, and your karate is not going to look like my karate mine is not going to look like yours. So you make it your own. You do what? What suits you the best. Nakazato Sensei, tense down in shorinjiryu, what a big, big fella, very big and strong, okay. And, his blocks would be powerful. He has senseis blocks that were softer and misdirection because he was a smaller guy.
So, they're both correct. You know, and you can't like, you can't expect someone to do as you point out, exactly like what somebody else is expected to do. Now, when I think when you're dealing with ranks, beginners, that's a little tougher, because you're the expectation is, this has got to look like, you know, this is just got to look like a mate, this got to look like you know. So when you're teaching the fundamentals, you may have to be a little stricter with that. But once somebody reaches Dan rank, then they can start learning and then start adapting their martial art to what they can do. Right?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, lower ranks, they're so far off the target. That you have to be, it's kind of like, if I was going to drive from here to Albany. I can let up on how strict of an angle my car drives, the closer I get. If I'm off by 30 degrees on the campus, as I started driving to you, you know, I'm going to end up in the kip. See, I'm going to end up in New York City, maybe even Trenton right, like, this is not where I want to be. Yeah, no disrespect to Trenton. But if I get really exact, even if I'm wishy washy, even if I'm all over the place, even if that road is swinging back and forth, and up and down, it's keeping me more or less on track. And as I get better as I get closer to the quote unquote goal, or in this case, this destination, yeah, I can relax a little bit. Okay, I'm going over there. So let's head back, sometimes I veer off, sometimes I veer back on and I get the freedom to do that. As I know where I'm going and have more experience on where I've been.
Gene Myers:
Sure, that's the journey, right? Yeah. You know, just constant. For us, it would be constant refinement, trying to get a deeper understanding of the things that we're doing. And ultimately, if you can pass that knowledge on to other people, I mean, that that's the ultimate, you know, to practice your art and to be able to teach others I think is I mean, it's, it's the no matter what it is, whether it's martial arts or, or astronomy or what, you know, that's the most gratifying profession. I think that that there is. Yeah, yeah. Switch it up a little bit here. Please. I have your book. Oh, hit one of your books I have. The stronger people are harder to kill. What do you think? Well? It was excellent.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Thank you.
Gene Myers:
Yeah. Excellent. I'm very committed to physical fitness. And I haven't been using that phrase. But I would say that all things being equal, the better condition fighter is the one that will prevail?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Absolutely. And I don't think there's anybody that disagrees with that, if they're being honest with themselves. Well, with the condition that you threw in all other things being equal? Yeah, I think that's a critical statement.
Gene Myers:
I hope that's the case. Because you still have, you still have people that come to the dojo or training hall, whatever, once or twice a week. And that's the extent of their training and the rest of the time there. You know, they're, they're not paying attention to their physical fitness. At any age, kids, especially, you know, they don't, I mean, they're all in shape anyway, most of the time, but they, it's very important to be physically fit, in case God forbid, you are confronted in the situation. Going to class twice a week, once or twice a week, and calling that your training, obviously, is insufficient. You have to train on your own. And to supplement that training, you know, you have to do some kind of conditioning. It doesn't matter. I don't know what that is, some people lift weights, some people, I like bodyweight exercises, I've done them for a long time, because you can take them anywhere. I think I can still work out as hard as I do. You know, I've been to class and square, you know, I'm doing well, I'm looking around at younger people, you know, and they're, they're not in nearly as good a shape. And, you kind of worry about it, you know, you kind of, you know, are you going to be able to survive a fight.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And this is a delicate subject, because when it comes up. I think there's a portion of the population that can use it as the expression of an ideal. Stronger, people are harder to kill. Being healthier is an objectively good thing. Right? And we can say objectively that, again, all things being equal, carrying excess body weight makes you less healthy, right? Like, these are things that we can state and and if people are being honest, and they're willing to be real with research and the way the world works, these are things we can all agree on. But sometimes people get nervous, they get anxious, they get offended. We live in a country where the majority of the population based on the metrics that are put out is overweight. And it can be really hard within the martial arts world where we tend to be pretty darn inclusive. I mean, we were talking about special needs people you're not seeing a lot of special needs integration and other pursuits in the same way that we are inclusive in the martial arts. I mean, most schools, we don't care who you are, what you do, we want you to show up and try. And, you know, I'm going to try and work on my thing, and you're gonna be over there working on your thing, and I'm going to move on my path at my rate, and you're going to work on your path at your rate. And, that's a good thing. And we're doing individual sports together. So, but the rest of the world doesn't always offer that opportunity. Right? Because those relatively subjective metrics within the martial arts become much more objective. You know, if I'm much heavier than I am, I'm not going to run as fast, I'm probably not going to make the track team.
Gene Myers:
Yeah, yeah. Well, there are people who may be heavier than, you know, their ideal body weight should be, but are still very healthy. You know? So, but nevertheless, it's the health aspect and not so much the weight or what you look like, it's Can you physically perform, you know, when the chips are down? And, you know, like you point out in the book, Your chances are better if you're in shape. I mean, there was a study that I was reading just the other day where cardiovascular fitness reduces your risk of dementia by 33%. In older adults, so, I mean, exercise does so much for you as a person, I mean, not only, not only physically, but mentally and emotionally. It's, it's just, it's so important. And there used to be a President's Council on Physical Fitness, where it was that for those kids yeah. Started by, I think, John F. Kennedy. And it was emphasized in the schools, you know, all schools had to have physical education. And, and there was, you would be assessed, we'd be assessed every year. And the number of setups we could do push ups, we could do a shuttle run, like that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sit and reach. I remember the sit and reach.
Gene Myers:
Yeah, there you go. And they measure how far out. And we don't see that anymore. You know, we really don't. I mean, I don't know what gym class looks like, today. You know, it?
Jeremy Lesniak:
My understanding is it's dramatically different depending on where you are.
Gene Myers:
Okay, all right. Nevertheless, there should be. I mean, we should be teaching, you know, our kids to take better care of their bodies. I mean, we kind of have a little bit, maybe they have health class, but, you know, I mean, let's be honest, you know, most kids really, health class is a joke, it always has been. And it's, I mean, no disrespect to health care teachers or anything like anyone like that. But, you know, unless it's established early, that we really need to take better care of ourselves physically. You know, we're just going to continue down the road where obesity is going to be an issue, but the match is going to be an issue. Our health care costs are going to continue to spiral. And, it's just, it's that good. You know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We've turned a tipping point recently in the US and, you know, for our international listeners, you know, I can't speak to the global numbers, I'm not as aware of those. But in the US for the first time, our life expectancy has gone down. The first time that's happened to our knowledge, really ever and, you know, I'm sure we could, we could go back hundreds of years and see blips where you know, a plague comes through and knocks it down on average. But if we're getting better on all these things, that number should continue to go up or at least plateau, it shouldn't be going down. But it is going down. And it's going down in direct correlation from my understanding of the data with a lack of movement, an increase in obesity. And again, this isn't this is not attacking obesity. It's the recognition that you know, choices have impact, choices carry consequences. And I think movement and exercise which I term is two very different things are absolutely critical to health and to me, I go so far as to say that being unhealthy knowingly being unhealthy is not self defense, if the goal of self defense is to remain alive, and you spend 90% of your time, preparing for a situation that has a very small likelihood of occurring, and you spend virtually no time preparing for something that we all face aging, and preparing for that, are we really defending oneself?
Gene Myers:
That's an interesting thought.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Not original to me, I forget where I took it.
Gene Myers:
But well, that was less, it's still, you know, we'll give you credit for. It is, to me, part of your training. Isn't that true? Just like, just Well, okay. I like to research Bankai, you know, and from that learning or mental aspect, you know, that's part of training for me. It's mind, body and spirit. Right? That's the foundation of most martial arts, you know, improve your mind, improve your body from your spirit? Well. You have to address all three, in order to consider yourself a complete martial artist. I'm not there yet. You know, I don't know who is, I'm sure, you know, the great masters have attained that level. But, you know, it'll take me, you know, the rest of my life before I even come close to that. But still, that has to be part of your training, you know, as you say, that it just, it just makes complete sense. We can talk till we're blue in the face about the importance of, you know, practicing at home, and, you know, exercising or taking better care of yourself physically. And until somebody really gets it. You know, it's just not going to happen.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't know if this is Tony Robbins, I've heard it in the context of a Tony Robbins thing. I don't know that it's the original statement, people will do more to avoid pain than they will to gain pleasure. Right? And so what do you mean by that? When do people often stop smoking? When their doctor says look, like, these numbers are bad, or you have like you have during the beginnings of lung cancer, etc, like, people will maintain their course until they're giving it a very strong, dramatic reason. Not to it's it's how we're wired. And I think understanding that and being willing to maybe play with what you term those consequences, not waiting till it's too late. Yeah, yeah, I think that that's something that I kind of play some mental trickery with myself. Because, yeah, working out isn't isn't always fun. It's not always easy, you know, working hard and getting sweaty, when you can sit on the couch and eat chips, you know, that one is a much easier decision than the other. But what about on the other side? You know, how do you feel after you've been sitting on the couch for two hours eating chips versus, you know, after you spent 30 minutes, even working out, even at a moderate pace, like, you're gonna feel a heck of a lot better, they're the post chips.
Gene Myers:
And, you know, whatever form your exercise takes, it should be enjoyable to you, so, don't have that, you know, geez, I gotta go work out. And it should be something that you actually look forward to and in fact, incorporate into your everyday routine. If I would dread having to, you know, go out for a mile run or something like that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Me, both not my favorite. Yeah,
Gene Myers:
I mean, I'll get my cardio some other way. But I enjoy doing bodyweight exercises. And it's a great stress reliever. I found I mean, I can be in a very foul mood, and go down stairs and workout and I feel much better.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And it's really hard to be in a bad mood when you're exhausted.
Gene Myers:
Yeah, yeah. And you know, you get those endorphins and the Incapsula is activated, and you know it they are the runner's high right So you do feel a lot better about things. So, to me, it's inconceivable how somebody can, cannot want to exercise or move or do something to make themselves healthier. It doesn't have to cost a thing.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But there's tears. You know, Andrew and I recorded a few Thursday episodes earlier today. And one of the things that comes up, and this comes up a lot for me in my non-whistlekick professional work, I do some business and marketing consulting. We're at a point in society now where people are so afraid of making the wrong choice of getting things wrong or doing things incorrectly, that they will not take any action. Because with the growth of social media, so many people are very quick to judge and tear people apart. Even take pictures. I mean, there are entire social media groups dedicated to people looking foolish in a conventional gym, you know, lifting gym. And if you're someone who is thinking about lifting weights, and you know nothing about it, and you bumped into a few of those videos, you're now potentially terrified of stepping into that space looking foolish and being made fun of so no, I'll just stay home or nobody's gonna make fun of me. Sure, there's cultural reinforcement into this. So I don't want anybody who's listening to think that either of us believe this to be easy. It is simple, but it is not easy. And I think it's an important distinction to make.
Gene Myers:
Sure, if it were I mean, what's that old saying? If related to karate, if, if it was easy to be a black belt, everyone would have one? Right? Anything that's worth doing takes effort. Sometimes the hardest thing to do is the right thing to do. And it's maybe it's just because, I mean, I'm older than you. But still, when you get to be our age, I mean, not that we're the same age, you understand what I mean? I think we have a better appreciation for that, because we weren't raised with social media. And, and it's, it's, it's really, it has its purpose. But it's been in many ways a detriment to civilization.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Any technology that we seem to develop swings on a pendulum, you know, there's this rapid adoption, and it reaches a crest, and then it starts to fall back. And I think that that's where we are with social media, I think we've realized, oh, there's a bit too much of this. And people are leaving in droves. Facebook reported its first ever reduction in user activity. And you know, at least temporarily, their stock dipped considerably, because people realized, oh, wait, this has gone as big as it's going to, at least in that aspect, as part of their rebranding with meta and everything else. But there's a lot of benefits. I mean, every technology has benefits. But you can go back, you can read about the printing press and the critique of giving people access to information that they can just What do you mean, they don't have to go through the nobles in the church to learn what a book says, like, like this dangerous? You know, we were saying the same things. Now, we will continue to say the same things with technology. But that doesn't mean that there isn't tremendous benefit. You said you enjoy training, training Bunkai it's pretty darn easy to connect with some of these folks in the world. And we've had a few of them on the show in Abernethy, of course, and, and others who live in this world and we can learn so much from them without having to, you know, fly to Scotland.
Gene Myers:
He's one of the resources I regularly consult. Yeah. But he is and you've had him on the show, I think. Paul and Dan have had him on their show as well. And he's a great guy. He's very humble. And he has a great sense of humor. But the stuff he knows is amazing. And although we don't train in the same art, he adapts his Bunkai to fit the art that you're doing. You know, so there may be a tangential relationship between the two. But nevertheless, you know, he'll, he talks about, well, if you're in Isshin-ryū, you might go to buy this or something, you know, and it's just a guy who is just brilliant.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. And he loves what he does. And it comes through. Oh, I think that's why he's been successful. You know, anytime I have two sayings, when I have two boxes I try to check when I'm teaching, I want them to have fun and I want them to learn something. And if you get the first one, the second one's a lot easier.
Gene Myers:
Yeah, much easier. Yeah, much easier.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, I was gonna kind of circle back to some things. Sure. You know, you sound like you spent a lot of time in introspection. And it sounds like you've always been a bit of that analytical kind of contemplative personality. So I'm sure you've spent time thinking about, you know, what you might have done differently with the knowledge that you have. Now, this is one of my favorite questions to ask guests, because we have folks who are new to martial arts learning. And in fact, sometimes I even get emails from people who are considering martial arts and stuff, they kind of dip their toe in by listening to people talk about martial arts. If you were to go back to day one or year one, or you know, somewhere in there, with what you know, now, what you've experienced to this point, what might you advise yourself? Are there words of wisdom that you would share?
Gene Myers:
Don't be afraid to fail.
Jeremy Lesniak:
How do you define failure?
Gene Myers:
Well, to me, the way I would think about it, back then, is if I didn't do something, exactly the way I was shown, or taught. In other words, as a beginner, I mean, this is completely unrealistic. But I would think that as a beginner, I should just be able to walk out onto that floor, and be able to do what the instructor is doing just like him.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You're not alone. I think we've all had that feeling.
Gene Myers:
And yeah, and that rarely happens. It looks so simple. Why can't I do it? Exactly. You know, I'm athletic, I can do this. But, you know, obviously, there's a learning process that goes along with that. And there were several times that I actually stopped trading for, you know, a few months, because I was discouraged, and maybe comparing myself to others. As human beings, we tend to do that no matter what. I mean, in martial arts, that's, you know, that is definitely the wrong thing to do. You know, if you're competing with anyone, you're competing with yourself, can I improve? Can I be better today than I was yesterday? And as a newbie, so to speak. I didn't learn that. I didn't, I wasn't aware of that. And it would, like I say, be discouraging. And, I'd stopped for a while. But then, you know, said, There's something there that kind of calls you back. And you go back and maybe a little wiser, you know, maybe a little more mature. And this would be to answer your question. That would be it for me. How about for you?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I started when I was pretty young. But I think the best advice I ever received in martial arts wasn't given in terms of advice, it was given in terms of a realization. And, and I've talked about this on the show a couple of times, but in the initial school that I trained in, the first person or the Black Mountain had had a high rank before I don't remember it was black belt or brown belt, another karate style. So here in black belt pretty quickly, he was, you know, incredibly dedicated to train five days a week, etc. And I think it was like three to four years, he earned his black belt. And I remember being probably eight or nine, and standing there with my mother. And she said, What does it feel like to have a black belt? He said, you realize how much you don't know. It sat with me for probably a good 10/15 years before I realized the depth of the wisdom in that statement. And it led to what I and a number of other people refer to as white belt mentality. I just want to learn, I just want to train. I don't care who it is. I don't care if I've been training longer than them. I don't care if they have higher rank or lower rank.
If you have anything to teach. Well, I want to learn it. Because you talked about being a complete martial artist. To me that's an unattainable goal, because there's so much and the more I learned, the more I realized there's even more that I'm never going to learn, but it doesn't stop me from driving towards it. And when I was younger I was martial arts was the first thing I found where I received recognition and validation from other people. So as a kid was the biggest nerd in school, but had martial arts, I became arrogant within that context. Really? And so yeah, yeah, because here I am, here's this thing where, I'm good. And people tell me, I'm good. And nobody anywhere tells me I'm good at anything other than the teachers at school, and I get, you know, I get pooped on for that, by my peers. And I think if I could go back and say, It's okay to be good. But it's not okay to think so highly of being good, that you start to put on blinders and you miss opportunities for getting even better.
Gene Myers:
Yeah. And that's a humility that we try to have, we think we're humble, you know, but oftentimes, we're not checking your ego at the door, when you come in, to any situation, to me is the ultimate white belt mindset.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know, easier said than done. Oh, for sure.
Gene Myers:
I've found that I've learned so much from working with white belts, you know, and it's because, you know, let's be honest, if it's their first exposure to martial arts, that you're going to tell them to throw you, you know, okay. And it could look like anything coming at you, you know, so you have to, you know, where you're used to, you know, you're the other, the other yudansha doing it exactly the way you should you do it with proper technique and form and whatever, this could come out of nowhere. So, you have to be prepared for that. And, and just there. Many of them have an enthusiasm, you know, for the art, they just want to drink it all in. And you think to yourself, maybe subconsciously, she's I remember when, when I was like that, I wish I had that enthusiastic spirit right now. And then if you think a little further, so why can I you know, it's like, you know, it's a journey. And we will never attain, you know, the goal that we're working for. But the journey is, is the reward itself, right? I mean, we're getting a little philosophical here.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I didn't mean to play, never apologize for that on here. It's my favorite stuff.
Gene Myers:
Anyway, I don't mean to pontificate. But, but still, it's, it's, it's deeper than learning how to kick and punch block. And also much more, you may start there. But then, you know, if you're serious, it can make you a much better person. And, you know, most of the martial artists that I've had the privilege of training with and meeting are very nice people. And there seems to be a difference almost between them. And the average person who doesn't train in the martial arts. I hesitate to call it a warrior mentality. But there's humility and confidence and, and just an empathy, you know, for other people. And we tried to attain that, we fell down a lot, you know, but then you get back up and you try to try to get back on that path. And I'd like to think that I'm, I am on that I'm there kind of a person, I hope, but, you know, that it'll be up to others to judge you know, but still, like I say, it is more than just practicing techniques, you know, to defend yourself, it's, it's your entire life. And people say, you know, you know, I do karate or I take karate, and to season my artists? That kind of gives you a chuckle doesn't it?
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's like, you know, it's so hard to find the correct verb, we've actually had a fair amount of discussion with various episodes about that verb is, is there one that you use to describe?
Gene Myers:
I study? Right practice? You know, I practice karate. I study karate, you know, but, you know, I take dance lessons, you know, and I, I, but I think, once you get to a point where it becomes part of you that then it's something that you practice, you know? And, yeah, so that would be my verb. What will be yours?
Jeremy Lesniak:
This one did not come easy to me. But play. Oh, we've had that come up. I think there were two or three guests. And I apologize. I don't remember which of the guests brought this up. But one of my big things is to go back to finding your why why do you train? Why do you continue to train? And, you know, for me, it's so ingrained in who I am, that I don't think I could stop. You know, I'm 43. I started training when I was four. How do I stop doing something I've done for that long? How do you walk away from that? And what I like about, you know, and this is not disparaging your choice of word, or anybody else's choice word, you know, practice or study or train. I do all of those two. But I am happiest when I play martial arts, because think of all the things that we play, right. You're doing it, you don't have to. It's enjoyable. It's best when other people are involved. Right. And that describes my happiest moments in martial arts with other people and making friends we're working together, we're making each other better. And yeah, there's some, there's at least some smiles. Maybe even the laughter at our mutual experiences.
Gene Myers:
For sure, I never thought of it like that. I mean, although it is very enjoyable. Yeah. Some of my happiest experiences in the martial arts have been like at a training camp, where our association has gotten together, and everybody's on the training floor all at once all doing the same thing. And you're part of a whole, and it's, you feel a sense of belonging. And yet, there's an individuality to it. You're trying to do better, whether it's to impress somebody else, or impress yourself. But there's a joy to it, not unlike what you would get if you were playing something with other people.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's not a perfect word. But I'm sure, there's probably some Japanese concept because all the best Japanese words seem to require like six different English words, and we shoehorn them in and, you know, we get something right. There's probably some Japanese concept that better expresses this, or if nothing better, we can make a German word, squish six of them together and just have a run on sentence. It's a single word. They're great at that. But I want to have fun, because if it's fun, I'm going to keep doing it. And there are plenty of times for being serious, even in the context of training immunity, and I'm never going to run someone's rank testing with like mirth. Like, it's not going to be a joke, you know, I'm going to want them and everyone else involved to take that seriously. Because, you know, traditionally, I think it is more impactful. If you do that. Your look on your face tells me you agree. I do. But that doesn't mean that there aren't even in that context. Where there's some humor, maybe it's intentional, usually not. But there can still be humor and joy. Because we're hardwired to continue doing the things that bring us joy.
Gene Myers:
Sure, yeah. It's interesting. I'm still digesting the concept of martial arts because well, okay, you. When we would spar, I've often referred to it as a rough game of tag. So, yeah, and, when you get hit, at least this happens to me quite a bit. If I get hit, I kind of laugh a little bit. Because there is humor in that. It's like, holy crap, how, you know? It's fun not to get hit so much, but it's…
Jeremy Lesniak:
With someone that you like, and trust. Yeah. And you're, again, it's that mutual benefit. You're challenging each other. The delta between skill is not usually so great, that you're not helping each other out. And one of you lands something or does something that you haven't pulled off before something unexpected. You both smile, it's like, oh, okay, You caught me, I see what's going on here. Right. And even, it could be a strike that drew a little bit of blood in some, some context, or, you know, a good shot to the ribs. You're like, oh, like that's gonna bruise and you're still smiling and laughing about it? Yeah, there is if a stranger walks up to you on the street, and kicks you in the ribs, and you're bruised. It's gonna start a fight. Right? Like, like context matters. Within that playfulness, things are…
Gene Myers:
Yeah. That's a neat, unique perspective that you have. And now that I think about it, it is very much like playing. And, but I think it doesn't become that until you've been playing for a while, let's say, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Serious play. I've heard others term it that way.
Gene Myers:
Yeah. It is fun. And, like I didn't start training at such a young age as you did. But it's definitely become a part of who I am. And I can't imagine if I, God forbid, had to stop for some reason. But what kind of a person I would be, I'd be miserable.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What could make you stop, though? You know, and hopefully, I won't be specific. I don't want to put those things out to the world. But, you know, I suspect you just as I know, people with some pretty severe physical challenges who still train, train, they still progress. And they still love what they do.
Gene Myers:
Yeah. I don't know what depth it would take. Maybe? I think that's the only way I'm done. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even if, even if we succumb to some debilitating injury. Training, you could still train, you know, in some fashion. Whether it's, I mean, physically, mentally, whatever. You can, you can still do some kind of training. And, yeah, I don't think I could, I couldn't stop and if I did, I'd have to be six feet under. Really? That's what it would take. For me anyway. What's the most interesting topic you've talked about? And you're the guest?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't know how to answer you, you're doing a really good job of turning this back around. I like what I have podcasters on because we end up with this odd dynamic. And it's like interviewing who I find fun, because just as the impetus for the karate cafe was a real organic conversation with other martial artists and a desire to capture that. Mine was to say, I remembered people at martial arts events, summer camps, you know, hanging out, I was high enough rank at a young age that I could kind of be on the edge. And listen, I couldn't talk but I could listen. And they'd get a couple of beers in them. And they start telling stories. I was like, I love these stories. But if you ask them out of that context, or without, you know, the social lubricant of the alcohol, they, you know, I'll tell you later, they wouldn't tell the stories. My favorite thing about what we do is when someone gets somewhere through conversation, because I consider conversation discussion on martial arts to be an element of martial arts training, that understanding, you know, we are, in my opinion, practicing or playing martial arts right now, not the physical attributes, other than I'm just stipulating fairly well.
By ugly at times, but we are working through some of the mental concepts, which I think are just as if not more important as we progress. But when someone starts into one of those concepts. Oh, and I can see them or hear them connect dots that they've never connected before. Somehow through our conversation, they had an epiphany. And it's happened maybe a half dozen times over the years. And I absolutely love that. Because they usually email me later. And they're like, I don't I'm still reeling from that. And I think open honest conversation about martial arts is something you know, we don't have much open, honest conversation in the world, let alone about a subject that most people consider to be physical. When we both know from training for a long time, it's not actually, I'd say that the longer you go on, the less physical it is. I could not throw a roundhouse kick for a few weeks, and step back out and probably be 99% of where I was, when I stopped.
Because I've done enough roundhouse kicks. I can't train everything all the time, there's too much to do. But as we get into these things, it enhances my understanding. So, when I go back, and I throw that round, roundhouse kick, I have a better understanding of why I'm throwing it. And it's that much more meaningful and impactful, figuratively end, if the case calls for literally.
Gene Myers:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let me turn that around a little bit. Aren't you a better martial artist because of the conversations you had on your show?
Gene Myers:
Yes, and not just on the show, but in most any conversation I've had with another martial artist, but like you say, this is I'm learning stuff here. And it can be a martial artist from a completely different style. But yeah, I believe that's true. And I would like to think that's true for most any martial artist, it just improves you. Because in one way or another, the person you're conversing with is taking kind of the same path you're on. And there's a sense of camaraderie almost. And I'll share with you what I know, and you share with me what, you know, it's reciprocal. And, I mean, that's what a conversation is supposed to be. And, you know, when you talk about these, these informal get togethers, they after a cat after class, a camp at nighttime, you know, where, where the adult beverages are flowing, and, and people tend to loosen up the stories that you hear, on, you know, the, the insight that you get, is just something that you haven't, you can't measure that you can't explain it, but you just feel you almost feel like the same way. Like when I described how I felt like, doing kata with 100 other people on the floor, you know, it's almost the same feeling.
You know, it's just, like I say, that sense of camaraderie of having a common, you know, traversing a common path towards some goal that we know we will never attain. And yet we do it anyway. You know, I mean, that's to be that's a passion that very few people today have for anything, you know, anything period. And it's, it's self improvement, it's, it's learning how to protect yourself and your loved ones or other people. And it's just, it just continued. You just grow every day you grow. Here I go pontificating again. But you know, you get my point. It's just hanging out with other martial artists, whether it's training or playing, or, you know, getting drunk together. It's almost like a fraternity that you know, that you're always going to be a member of you just missing the varsity letter jacket, I guess.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Maybe we should make it.
Gene Myers:
Maybe that's what these are supposed to be.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Maybe we should start doling out instead of rank belts. Big fuzzy. Like, you know, if you do karate, for taekwondo practitioners? Turn your uniform into a letterman jacket. Yeah. I'm gonna show up somewhere with, like a big fuzzy, I don't know what probably whistle kick logo because how do I define what I do? Big fuzzy whistlekick logo on the chest and see if anybody gets it.
Gene Myers:
Yeah, yeah. They might mean your podcast and your website. I mean, you are some renown, let's say, some reach. Yeah, you're one of the, one of the foremost martial arts podcasts around period. Well, thank you.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's really just because of the persistence, you know, you talk towards the top about the guests that we've had on and it's really, it's just a result of continuing. You know, as we get guests of a certain notoriety, we can reach out to other guests who are a little bit bigger, and say, Here are these three other guests who are maybe just a little bit below and we just keep climbing the ladder that way. And it really, to me, just reflects how everything in martial arts goes, you just keep going. If you don't stop, and you apply some effort, you're gonna, you're gonna move forward might be slow. You know, the show doesn't move forward quickly. But we're moving forward.
Gene Myers:
Well, I mean, you've completed almost 700 episodes, and in the comparatively brief time that you've been on, I mean, you guys are pretty prolific. Yeah, it's all very interesting. And all and again, when you listen to a podcast, when a martial artists listen to a podcast, whether it's yours or Karate cafe, or whatever it is, again, you're taking part in that conversation, so to speak, that you would when you're after class, when you're, when you're socializing with others, and or whether you're on the training floor, you know, doing kata with all those people, it's still the same, still the same sense of belonging, and that you can relate to what's going on. You know, I think that's why a lot of talk radio is appealing.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know, if I understand correctly, it's really the only broadcast radio genre that continues to survive. You know, people have switched to streaming and downloading music and their vehicles for music. But talk radio still has a place because people want to feel part of that conversation. You and I are having a great conversation. But there are a whole bunch of people who are listening to this conversation. And they're part of it. It's a one way part, you know, we can generically say things to them, we can't single them out. But they can still feel like they're, they're adjacent. And, and I think there's a lot of value to that. I certainly listen to podcasts, both martial arts and otherwise, and that's my favorite thing about it. I feel like I'm there with them. When it's done. Well.
Gene Myers:
Yeah. Well, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's what this appeals to, right? I mean, that's what keeps you coming back. And if you find one or two that you particularly like, you know, those will be your go to podcasts. Now I got, you know, I got some time to kill, you know, I'll listen to this or when and unlike talk radio, you can listen to podcasts, obviously, anytime you want. You know, I have favorite radio programs that I listen to, but unless they're podcasted, you know, unless I listened to them live, you know, then I miss them. But anyway, it's a great venue, you know, and I'm so glad that it developed into what it is, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Thanks for kicking it off. Oh, well.
Gene Myers:
But I had nothing I was just asked to like, basically, I was the talent. And that's in quotes. You know, I just introduced the shows and things like that, but it was fun. It was one and it still is a lot of fun to listen to, to you guys and some others. And I'll just keep doing that. I give you a lot of credit for sticking with it man.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't do well at stopping things. It's, there's a skill, it's stopping things. And there are some things in my past that I wish I'd stopped doing sooner. Glad, I did not stop doing this. Yeah, because it leads to some great stuff. So I got one, one final piece, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna fade here. So what do you want to tell the listeners? You know, you've already told them quite a bit. But this is, this is where we roll out. And I'll record an outro later. What do you want to tell him?
Gene Myers:
Yes, I don't know. I can't think of anything other than what we've been talking about. It's definitely worth it. And it can be, it can, it's going to be whatever you make it out to be. And it can improve you as a person in so many ways. You know, just keep doing it. You know, I have no words of wisdom.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I mean, I've got you already using charity.
Gene Myers:
Yes, I'm completely spent no more wisdom here. But I appreciate you inviting me on that. Like I say, I've, I've been very intimidated. You know, because of the, you know, who you guys are, in the end of the people that you've had on. I'm just small potatoes. But nevertheless, I'm very grateful that you found the time to talk to me. And it's, it's been an honor, I hope that you guys will continue with your success. It's, you definitely are making a difference in the martial arts world. On behalf of your listeners, we appreciate what you guys do.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I hope you've enjoyed that. I certainly did. Hopefully that came through gene thanks for your time. And I'm really looking forward to getting to connect with you in person. Audience. If I forget, if this came up during the episode, or if it was outside, he doesn't look that far away. So those of you who come to whistlekick events wouldn't surprise me if you see him at one of them. In the near future. I'm looking forward to that. Head on over to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. See the show notes that's where you're gonna find the videos, links to social media pictures, so much more. And it's not just for this episode remotes for all of them. They're all over there. And if you're up for supporting us in the work that we do, you have lots of options. You can leave a review, you could buy one of our many books on Amazon or help out with our Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick. Want to bring me to your school? How about I come in and teach a seminar? We can do that. Reach out and we'll make it happen. Don't forget the code PODCAST15, gets you 15% of anything that whistlekick.com. And if you have feedback topics or guest suggestions, anything that you want to share, email me Jeremy@whistlekick.com and our social media is @whistlekick. Until next time, train hard, smile and have a great day.