Episode 676 - Mr. Stephen Watson
Mr. Stephen Watson is a Martial Arts practitioner and instructor at the Someday Farms studio in Connecticut.
You know what’s the plural of a why is? “Whys?” So, if you have enough why’s, you have “wise.“ That’s been my driving motivation, just continue the why not because we need the result, but because we’re living in the presence of that practice, of that process…
Mr. Stephen Watson - Episode 676
Mr. Stephen Watson is the founder and former director of Silent Dragon Schools. He immersed himself in Eastern philosophy for over 30 years and his martial training (the how) began in concert with his interest in philosophy (the why). Mr. Watson’s motto is: When you have enough Whys you have Wise. He specializes in transmitting a profound understanding of “why.”
In this episode, Mr. Stephen Watson tells the importance of our Whys in our lives and his journey to the martial arts. Listen and join the conversation!
Show Notes
You may check out Mr. Stephen Watson’s online portal at linktr.ee/SomedayFarm
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What's going on everybody? Welcome. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio episode 676. My guest today, Mr. Stephen Watson. I'm Jeremy Lesniak, I'm your host for the show and the founder here at whistlekick. And, well, I love traditional martial arts. And that's why we do everything that we do, want to see everything we do go to whistlekick.com. That's the place to find out about all of our projects and our products. It's also the easiest way to find the store. That's where we sell the products, using the code PODCAST15 is going to get you 15% off a T shirt, or a hat or a hoodie, or maybe some sparring gear and of the other number of things that we have over there. The show whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, the one that you're listening to right now gets its own website, and it is whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. Because I was always taught to keep things simple. Show comes out twice a week. And we're working hard to connect, educate and entertain traditional martial artists throughout the world. If you want to support the work that we do, there are lots of ways you can help, you could leave a review or support our Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick.
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I had the pleasure of meeting today's guest at Free Training Day this year in 2021 and exchanged some messages with him online. We have some people in common. I've heard wonderful things. And I'll tell you what, this is a fun episode. We recorded it on video, even though we're not releasing the video. And it led to some really different dynamics and I think you'll be able to hear it. It was a ton of fun. Had a blast. And yeah, I'll just suggest that you enjoy it because it is to be enjoyed. Here we go. My conversation with Stephen Watson. How are you?
Stephen Watson:
Alive.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, that's a good start. So that's all I haven't done any of these with anyone who's not alive yet. I don't know how they'd go.
Stephen Watson:
Go very fast. I don't return stones.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Weegee plugin though.
Stephen Watson:
Oh, yeah. There's a podcast called The Dead Authors podcast.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's so funny. The ones with who is it that plays L. Ron Hubbard?
Stephen Watson:
I'm trying to poll three names. Really genius idea for some of the funniest creative comedy material.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, that's brilliant.
Stephen Watson:
And you can learn about these folks, you know that they're playing to those pretty sure the educational; is trying to give you a little bit of a frame here. I think
Jeremy Lesniak:
We're gonna put this out in audio. Okay, but the video you know, some we don't do video all the time. But I've dialed in the internet connection here. You know, I'm quite deep in the woods. But I've got redundancy and you know, for some folks. I just get the feeling that oh, it'll help things go a little better. Like this one.
Stephen Watson:
Yeah. I think you're right. Yeah. I had my Wi-Fi go up the other day. And my backup I have a whole backup Wi-Fi system, they both have a Monday class, it's around the world on Zoom. And that's like, I don't know, I started posting all my notes that are written translation stuff. And I said, Well, if I can't get online, you'll have your work to do. It'll be blessedly free of my face.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, it looks like you've got one of those fancy cameras that follows.
Stephen Watson:
I think I just turned it off on you. But yeah, there's no real need for it, I find it works really well for doing what I do, which is a lot of teaching on Zoom. Because, you know, I come closer to the frame I moved, my hand was doing, the only thing is after a year of zoom teaching, you know, I get used to teaching and, you know, it stays where I put it, and I step off line to scratch, or fix my pants and like the camera in a really step off.
Jeremy Lesniak:
The joke I've always made with this show, because in the book, I have two internet connections now. And I've got experience. So, I was able to bridge those and everything. But before that, I was really worried about the quality of the internet connection. And so the joke I would make with people is no, no, let's turn the video off on Zoom. And that way you can pick your nose whenever you want.
Stephen Watson:
Yeah, yeah, exactly. when I teach workshops, you know, I'll bring, probably not for too much longer, but you know, bringing my CDs and my DVDs. And you know, and I'll have the same lecture that's audio and you know, mp3 only, you know, whichever way you want. And I would actually just charge more for the audio only. Because I told him, it's premium. You don't have to see me, you know, people are so confused. Like, why is it more of a project? So actually, the other ones last? I didn't actually raise the price.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's like the joke you have a face for radio?
Stephen Watson:
Yeah, exactly. Somebody told me once you have the other face for independent radio, which is just an insult. Yeah, that was really, really good. Pretty, pretty, pretty well. So stuff like that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, so we got a choice to make here. Do we? Do we treat the zero mark where you came on as the start? And we just charge ahead? Or do we kind of press fun?
Stephen Watson:
Let’s play it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay, let's do it.
Stephen Watson:
Either way, you want to do it if you want to talk through an intro and then start and then decide later that I like this way or saying anything? I don't mind.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But I like this way. Because I found that and you know this? You know the little bit that I've known you and the bit that I've talked about. I suspect that you have quite a bit to respond to with this observation. I've noticed over the years that when I allow this very organic conversation that we've just had to be the flow into the show, you know, I record an intro later. Sure, it is much more authentic, much more genuine than if we say okay, we're going to pause. I'm going to tell you all these things to keep in mind about the show. Right, right. Yeah, we're gonna do it because people come back into it in a much less authentic way.
Stephen Watson:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It also gives you, even if it's subconscious, a sense that you're almost eavesdropping, like you've come to the table that your friends are sitting at you. You're a few minutes late parking and they are ready. And okay. This is oh, so you guys heard about that? And then you kind of come into it. It's more casual. Yeah. You know, as opposed to, obviously, formally Invitational. And now I'd like to introduce, you know, when I've been introduced in events, you know, there's somebody up there that doesn't know how these microphones are standing in front of…
Jeremy Lesniak:
The lights, right? It's all over the place.
Stephen Watson:
They have their Gi on. and then they'll start the CV, you know, and I'll run up on stage and I'm just like, Steve, it's just Steve. My mom just told me that it worked for years and years, I don't need it and they just want to say, you know, this part of the accomplishments and like, I don't want to have an introduction. Let people get to know me and half of them all hate me. You know, that's experienced teachers, and some oh, thank God, he's not so bad. And that's a win.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Isn't that such a paradox, though, that even among many of us who push back a bit on this tradition of rank and accomplishments and justifying one's existence as a martial arts by CV, that we still kind of expected? Well, yeah, I'm gonna know that this guy is gonna come teach well, Who's he? What does he know? Where was she? What did they do? What do they have to say? Why is that worth my time? Right? Like we're in this conflict in a sense.
Stephen Watson:
Yeah, when I have new people come into an ongoing class, I'll kind of indicate we're about to start, you know, sip my tea and you know, something like that. And then I'll have everybody go around and explain what the class is just briefly, a few sentences. So, the new person doesn't hear from me, they like, it's going to be a sales pitch for me, because I can't help it like, not even if I'm trying to sell but that is my job, it's my, you're going to give a check to me when this is over if it goes well. So, I'd much rather hear in their own words, how it'll change, like the same student has been in my class for 10 years. They'll say it differently this time, because there's a new realization, or they've taken their training in another direction. And then I'll have them go around and introduce themselves and are more or less say, you know, say who you are, like, I'm Fred, but also how you fit in like, or how it is that you're here.
And then they might say, it's only my third week, I don't really know how but I like her. She's nice. Or I've been here for 26 years, and I've done this and then I started this and that my kids studies, they're okay. But then the person really feels like there isn't. It's like that roundtable idea. There isn't this focus of me, the person up on a, you know, a pedestal with the awards in the, in the, it's us, we're all doing this, I just have a key that the door to you know, start the thing on time. But we're all doing it. You know, I have a teacher that he starts the event. And it's an event like people fly in, you know, all over the world and cool, there's 1000s of people and there's the, the energy, like it's about to start, you know, and then he comes out and he says, and he's the hero, right? The lights come on. Like, he's right, you know, and he's playing the hero, but that's who everybody seems to, which isn't who he is, but that's who they're seeing. And he says, I want to thank you all for being here, which is anybody would say something like that.
And he goes, if you weren't here, and now he's aware that are all they're all thinking that this is the archetype of the practice soul, the Perfected man, the, you know, the 90 degree, whatever, you know, just, we all bought tickets to do this, right? And he says, I want to thank you all for being here. Okay, we've heard this before. And he says, if you weren't here, I would be at home watching the next. And it's not just funny and unexpected, right? But it's authentic. Yeah. He's like, I know me. I don't, I wouldn't be out training. I'd be at home, watching the next but I have this thing. And you're all expecting me and I have a duty and you know, I'm a responsible person. And of course, he enjoys being there. And he's good at it and all the rest. But he's literally saying, “This isn't about me. And it's not about you. It's about us. It's about something shared”. And, you know, if you're the teacher, you might have a bit more to share. If you're carving a turkey, you might be putting more on other plates than everybody else is putting on yours. That's reasonable. But it means free. The ego, right? Don't just try to convince myself to Hang on. I'll be with you. Jeremy. It means the ego. Okay, got it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Anybody listening to this is picking up on the humor? You're you? Is it fair to say you're someone who doesn't take themselves too seriously.
Stephen Watson:
I take play more seriously than most people take work. And play is my work. So, I don't work. I mean, I do kung fu, that means hard work, right? But it's very playful. And it's seriously playful. There's a point. Right, it's not just dismissive or escapist. Although, you know, it has a time for that too. But it's not just let me shift the attention or let me make something funny for the sake of funny. it lubricates relationships, you know, it lubricates your own insights, whatever needs to come out or come in, you know? So, it's fun to be a bit mischievous. It's fun to recognize the form of formality, and deform it, or reform it? In some ways, you know? So a little origami with society. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Go deeper into that concept of serious play.
Stephen Watson:
Yeah. So, I'll tell you, or the audience share with whomever. This is interesting because most of my teaching is in private lessons, I don't have a lot of classes, especially after COVID, even less, in the COVID area, their classes disappeared pretty fast. But meeting one on one, and staying 12 feet apart, and mostly practicing outside this has been doing particularly for my art, because it's not BJJ or something we're not, you know, face to face sweating and yelling, you know, or Judo or something. We're doing Tai Chi, for example, and having some space. And so, what I'll say is, at least to start, if it's a conversation, we'll see where we go. Something that I tell my students, it's the last lesson when they complete their first form, which might be four years, five years after they start six years, eight years, right?
I'm very slow. And so it's usually in a private lesson. So, they're the only ones hearing it. And that means that people that are coming up behind them, don't hear it until the time that they finish. So they finished the form and I'll say, must, must be exciting. Let's just do it. Once you have a whole thing to do. It's pretty exciting. Oh, good for you. I'll take your picture, you know, let them fall on the ground and go, I can't believe it. And then I'll say in China, where this art is, was developed, the term used for Tai Chi, the verb teaches us that you cannot do Tai Chi. You cannot work on your Tai Chi. You can't be scholarly. You know, perform scholarship on Tai Chi Chuan. You can't wrestle with Tai Chi Chuan. You can't interrogate Tai Chi Chuan. You can't do it like an etude. As a musician. These are not the terms use the term for doing Tai Chi Chuan. That's what the artists you play.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's, it comes in from…?
Stephen Watson:
That's the verb from Chinese. Yeah. So the idea is, well, as soon as I say that people say, well, good. Okay, that all syncs up, because I just spent five years studying with you like, okay, yes, that's not really a revelation. But throughout, they've been saying practice work on wrestle will be challenged by getting into work on my touchy terms they use. And whenever I teach them, probably every class, they learn some kind of Chinese term about, you know, some philosophy or something. And as soon as I say that, they kind of sit back, they're like, “Okay, what's the lesson?” What do you mean, when you say play? And I'll say, well, really, it's just what you think we mean by play. It's the same term that a kid uses all day long. And what is the kid doing when they're playing? If you ask the kid, I'm just playing, if you ask an adult, particularly somebody that knows about pedagogy or childhood education, they know that kids are growing, they're learning that as far as the kid knows, they're just playing, they're having fun.
What I see is that they're developing dexterity skills and language skills and social skills and all that hand eye coordination. I'm doing things. They're learning, they're growing by working, but you can't really tell a kid to grab your Legos and work on them. So that feeling of play is like integral to the art and indeed to Taoism, which is really kind of my, my real interest. Tai Chi Chuan, just kind of being a vehicle to maybe get me there and then play when I'm there. So, you know, play as you know, radically important. You know, my accountant won't want to hear that, you know? Oh, no, Mr. Watson. You are, this is hard, you need to listen. But to the extent possible, you know, wake up playing, go to the playing and play in between.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Have you always had this philosophy? Let me ask in a different way. Did you find what you found martial arts wise because of who you are in this philosophy? Or did this philosophy find you, because of the martial arts you chose?
Stephen Watson:
I would say it's inextricable. I could make a case that it's shaped me. And I could make a case that I found that thing that fit me, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, which is, that's a basic Taoist response. And the truth is somewhere in the middle. So I can tell you a little bit about, you know, how I got there, if you want to get kind of will get us to that place. What I noticed is that I asked questions as a kid, I guess a lot of kids do most of all kids too. And I was probably fairly pessary and incessant, you know, insatiably curious, which is, the parents would say annoying, you know, but I am sinistical. Be curious. And I noticed that whatever question you ask if you've got an answer, whether it's fully true, a lie, or somewhere in the middle, like a mistaken answer, whatever answer you receive, including no answer. You could meet the reply that you get with the word why. And you can do that to be the annoying younger brother or something, right? Which isn't, I don't think what I was doing, I was just literally like, okay, the sky is blue. Why?
Well, because of the way light is refracted. And why, when you see the light, when it finds another density, it has to change angle. All right? Well, because we can just go on and up. And if you are a parent, you probably had that happen. And see, okay, this is just going on and on. And there's a point at which as a parent, because you're not playing, you have things to do to accomplish duties, responsibilities, and as an adult, when this happens, you generally will find yourself saying, because I said so. Shut up, go to your room. That's enough for now. The priest asked for it. Teacher read it in the book. In other words, we're done. I've answered six in a row. And there's 6 trillion billion infinite more, but I am trying to cut down. In other words, there's no satisfaction to the why. But my practice wasn't to reach the goal. It's to live in that practice of the process, which serves me well in the martial arts. Because it isn't about the next rank and the next, you know, now I can break five boards and so forth, or whatever it is, it's how was this? How was this workout? Having learned something that I have fun? Did I get hurt? Yes. They asked, no, I'll be here tomorrow. Like that. That's all I need. I don't really care what it adds up to, you know, doesn't matter. You're still 6000 hours away from a certificate. It's fine. My only question is, did I have fun this hour? That I learned something today, not what she did? Did nobody get hurt? Not just me. Yeah, she has no, okay. I'll be here tomorrow. Perfect.
Ultimately, we arrive that shut up or religion, right, we arrive, or religion will give you an answer, which is something like because it's meant to be or because God wanted it for. It's beyond us. So just, you know, put your hands together and pray or whatever this sort of, and I don't mean to make fun of it. But those answers really do serve people. Because they're relieved of the why? Because some monk, or you know, rabbis said, “No, because this is the way God works”. Oh, god, it's good. I can just focus on my taxes. Now. I don't have to thank you. It's a relief for a lot of people. For me, it's not a relief. It's like I had more reasons to follow. So that led me to philosophy. You know, because philosophy embraces the idea of why follows why we're not trying to stop math. We're not trying to arrive at a solution or an answer, like if we went out for coffee or drinks, you know, like the idea is just to kind of hatch around this idea we're playing with, it doesn't really have to end up as something that's a business meeting. But if we're just having drinks, it was fun just to talk football for an hour, like, we're not trying to solve what the Bengals are gonna, we're just talking about it and anybody, anything you want, you want an end to that right?
You want, okay, this means that we're gonna ask Rachel to do this, and I'm gonna follow up with that, and another meeting here, and then we're gonna launch the project. But that's reasonable. So, then I began setting religion, and we're probably talking, you know, when I was eight, or nine or ten, or something. And so I just read everything I could, I asked everybody that was not interested around me. Then I found more things to read. And everything I read was kind of, you know, wrong, you know, obviously, my view, or incomplete or in the wrong direction. And Santa, I talk to people, and I read religious stuff, and I read philosophical stuff and stuff that's sort of new agey, and maybe somewhere in between. Nothing was quite right, and then finally happened on Taoism. And I will tell you that my first thought after reading a very bit of it was, Who are these thieves that are sneaking into my brain at night and stealing all my ideas, writing them down and pretending they're here 1000s of years ago. Once I got over the, the insult of being robbed, I thought, let me just read everything I can about this
Jeremy Lesniak:
How old are you at this point?
Stephen Watson:
10/11 something in the ballpark? I don't know. And so I started, you know, studying that. There's nobody really around to teach it. And then I realized that what it was teaching us in Taoism, is that the practice of Taoism is, is the practical actions of your life, not sitting in a pew, sitting in a temple, bowing a certain number of times with the right incense or wearing a specifically funny hat for your religion. But it was about moving, like with a body, like a physical practice, not, you know, wherever spirit where I don't know where to point for spirituality. But it's about the body. And so okay, how do you do that? Well, there's this thing, tai chi, that's the sort of method for practicing the body in that philosophical way. And then it just took years to find when and how I could actually do that. So my, what my bio says is that you know, what the plural of y is? Just say it just says, okay, yeah. So if you have enough wisdom, you are wise, right? So, like, that's been my driving kind of motivation, just continue the why not because we need to resolve, but because we're living in the presence of that practice of that process. And the moving of the body is sort of a physically grounded place. And it's done very playfully.
It's very round and soft, rather than rigid. It's the practice of Tai Chi Chuan has a practice of saying, yes, not a practice of saying, No. When we look at most martial artists, we see that, well, the the setup is on here, you're there, you punch me, and then I'm going to show you the cool thing we do, you know, or you hit me with the stick or two guys, you grabbed me, and you know, whatever it is, we've done this 1000s of times 10s of hundreds of 1000s of times. And everyone's cool. Like that's cool, I love application number 17 against the cross risk graph. Oh my god. Okay, cool. But what he says, in my view, is kind of my read event, is that when the guy does the thing to you, I don't say no.
Which is what most martial arts do the moment he punches, I say no. And I step offline, like I block and what in one way or another, which means I might dock or shift or bob and weave or whatever it might be, but generally, it's just saying no, whereas Tai Chi is just like, oh, thank you energy for me. You know, I'm gonna put it over here. Oh, you're connected to it must have fallen down. So it's this kind of process of not facing fear or resistance, the incoming energy and meeting it and then playing with it, which is pretty difficult to do. Of course, it's much easier to be…. You know, I don't want that and, you know, do your blocks and the blocks work, you know, but they tend to stiffen people up, as I'm sure you've observed. And it's only later when people get a little wiser and or more injured, that they have to become wiser. They kind of soften up and they find some effectiveness there. So, we see the soft body and Tai Chi Chuan. But people often miss the soft heart of it as well, you know, which maybe we could relate to that sort of playfulness, in spirit and in body.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm with you. Okay. Yeah. How do you get from reading about Taoism? To physical practice? What I mean, maybe give us some of the chronology in the more tangible steps.
Stephen Watson:
Yeah, for me, it came down to, until I can find a teacher, I will have to let all of nature be my teacher. And that means a lot of time outdoors, in the forest, at the seashore, on the rocks, in the desert, really whatever. But basically away from man. Which, you know, that gets that person. And maybe that's really just more my personality. But kind of moving away from the artifice of understanding that mankind often seems to demonstrate and say, Well, I haven't seen a tree that is a tree poorly yet. Right, or rock, or a mollusk or a butterfly. But we've all we don't have to name names, because, you know, obviously, Andrew is not here, but we've all met people who are not, you know, the best form of people that they can be.
That's not to say, there aren't people that are exemplars and you know, worth hanging out with studying under, you know, falling, you know, that's fine. But you can't pick a poor teacher, if you pick a rock, or a tree or a river, you can pick a poor teacher, if you pick a person, we all we all know that it can be poor in terms of morally or ethically poor, and they can be poor in terms of just teaching skills. And we can hybridize that that can be poured both. So for me, it was just a lot of time, you know, reading what I could, you know, poetry and philosophy, being outdoors and being patient until I found a person who could teach me using English.
You know, which the rocks can't do, you know. And that was just, you know, years and years later, when that kind of worked out and starting to study with my first teacher who's now passed, you know, led me into, you know, Kung Fu, and the other arts that I do. But I've always seen them all as kind of supporting my Tai Chi. And my Tai Chi is really my method for trying to get at philosophy. And I said, get out, because I don't mean get like, fully. You know, yeah. Understanding that seems unreasonable to try. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now, we've had over the over the six and a half years that this show has been on. We've had a number of die that each one practitioners come on. And just like every other art, they've found that practice, for different reasons, you know, this, the variety of reasons someone starts training in any art, you know, it really runs the gamut. For sure, but you said something that I don't know that we've heard before. That your other martial arts practices are to support your Tai Chi practice. What do you mean?
Stephen Watson:
Yeah, so quite often, I'll just say this, as lead in, just to make sure that you and I are communicating. I've seen quite a few people that have a base arch, you know, they did Taekwondo, and then they found their way into doing Baguazhang or Tai Chi Chuan or something, and they did Kata, Isshin-ryū for this long and then they did some Krav Maga and now they're doing BJJ, and that's where they, you know, a lot of people have that the base art story, which they might have. don't practice anymore. They might practice, you know, and a lot of people pretty well carried two or three arts as I'm kind of equally adept at all three. And I, you know, I teach this Tuesdays, you know, and that's pretty cool. But they generally don't start with Tai Chi. They start with, you know, really whatever was in their local YMCA, and whatever their brother was studying whatever was down the street from that, you know, exactly, they don't usually know what they need, they just find what they find, and they can afford it. And it's on a night that they don't also have lacrosse.
And so I guess it turned out that they were doing, you know, [00:35:40-00:35:41]. Okay. So that's how it started. And I think that's pretty cool. Because you get this kind of education, in whatever art you studied, assuming it's safe, you know, morally, ethically, physically safe, you know, you get a pretty good education of okay, I kind of have some general idea of what the arts can offer. But I also now know enough to know what to ask for and what to prefer and what to seek. And so I think it's a reasonable thing for people to kind of start where they started because most people don't have, at the end of their career, the job that they started when they were 17. They started with mowing lawns, and doing whatever it might be, and there's a bunch of reasons to change among them, you can earn more money doing.
But never minding the money for a moment. You learn from your early jobs, what it is you want in a job, what it is you don't want, what it is you value, what a job can offer, what a job can't offer, what's available, how to ask for it, and then you find your way hopefully, we would expect to some balanced cradling have a practice. You know, whether it's profession or, you know, martial art. So I did that. Did we click there that was saying all that, does that show that we're understanding each other? Does that answer your question?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. Okay, keep going. Great. Questions don't have to be answered. As long as you say it was worth listening to.
Stephen Watson:
All right, and meeting. They don't have to be answered. It's so easy. I should just be nervously cheering my fingers, you know, shaking my tea. Like every time you ask something,
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, we can try that you've gotten the confident route, we can switch it up a bear light.
Stephen Watson:
So my understanding of, of course, Kung Fu, is that it? Kung Fu is not a description of punching, kicking, arm bars, sweeps or whatever. Kung Fu is a description of somebody, you know, wholly applying themselves over the long haul, in the direction of their intention. So, it's often translated as hard work, something like that. And I would say that makes sense to me. It's sincere, honest, effort over time. And so going through is really how you're going to do as well as you might do whatever it is, you're going to do. So going through the study, the practice of Kung Fu, is the practice of how, which later on will apply to be making a salad for lunch. Later on, it'll apply to me driving when I have to go pick up my car at the service station. And after that, I'll apply to teach Tai Chi. And then after that, it'll apply to me stretching up before going to bed, and then it will apply to me taking my notes at the end of the day, etc. And occasionally, Kung Fu applies to me doing martial arts, the things that everybody calls Kung Fu, that's fine, too. And so once I began to kind of have an opportunity to touch each one, I also then had an opportunity to study kung fu with the same teacher, as well as one of his students.
So, I went to two classes, two schools, like, each week, I had like eight classes a week to try and just soak up anything I could. And Kung Fu was interesting and functional on its own, like, I've made money teaching the arts, like people come to me that's what they want to study. And it's fun, and I'm proficient at it. And it hasn't gotten boring. And there's a deep well, it's great. Was it what I was looking for? No. Am I still a boy who grew up watching kung fu movies? And therefore it's cool. But that's not why I'm doing it. I'm doing it because it helps me with the how of anything else I apply my consciousness to, which for me is largely my philosophical Avenue, right? Or maybe a lane, maybe it's very narrow Boulevard.
So, for me learning Kung Fu is really about okay, this is learning how to learn how to develop muscle, you know, hopefully it can apply to, you know, tying my shoes and blowing my nose and, you know, anything I might do you know, everything. And, you know, maybe someday I'll get in a fight and I'll have a cool story about how I finally use my kung fu. Which won't be true because I will have gotten used to the fruit. You know, that's not the story anybody wants to hear of course, right? Just stacking firewood using kung fu is not a great story you want to hear. Okay, three guys wait last time I heard the story is two guys. Nevermind, three guys jumped out.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And just tell them how well you could tie your shoes.
Stephen Watson:
Yes. So, that was kind of the same thing. Every other art that I've done has similarly been helping me to inform and support my growth in or gross through my touch each one practices. So, I've done sister art, Tai Chi Chuan. Baguazhang, and Xing Yi Quan, if you will. So I've had an opportunity to practice those for a number of years. And they're all just like with kung fu like, oh, and I happen to do a kung fu called Black Dragon. When I say Kung Fu, I mean, kind of narrowly my type, you know, my family style. But doing the shooting of Xing Yi Quan is loads of fun. It's really functional. It's really cool. And I make money because people want to study that. So cool. We teach. Do I love that and care about it? No, I don't, it's fine. I know why I'm doing it. I'm doing it because it's a sister to Tai Chi Chuan, which is a method for me to kind of get to really understand the philosophy.
And so by doing it for what it's worth, for me, it's worth more to some people, some of my students, than it is to me, which is great. So I'm glad I can preserve it, to be able to pass it on, because somebody else will love it in a way I can't. Or haven't, you know, Baguazhang, which I like more than Xing Yi Quan, and I really, really enjoy it. But it's not quite for me. But I can do it professionally. I've taught it for years, I've done it for 25 years, I really do enjoy it, but not as much as touching each one. And I don't enjoy touching each one as much as I enjoyed that, you know, but I'm clear on why I'm doing it. They're all sort of aspects, it's kind of like, if you're going to buy a house, I guess maybe not these days, but you would log on, and there'd be a picture of the front door in the house. And like, that looks nice. And it says two bedrooms. That's what we need and the price point we can.
But the truth is when you go there they're going to walk around the house. So you want to see it from different perspectives, including probably climbing in the attic, going, you know, looking in the rooms knocking on things, but you at least walk around and see. Wait a minute, there's no back wall. Similarly, doing Tai Chi allows me to see things from here. Doing Xing Yi Quan allows me to see them here. Doing each one allows me to see them from here. Doing kung fu and doing Aikido allows me to see it from here. But I don't feel like I've lost sight of what I'm seeing it for. They just offer me different perspectives on what I've tried to stay true to looking towards.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What I'm finding interesting is my initial reaction to the way you kind of presented those that you love these arts in different ways and in different amounts. And most people don't admit that. Most people would say, you know, I started with this, and I do this, and I do this and then I do this and you know, I can teach this and this. And that's it. It reminds me of the way a parent would say, you know, I love all my children equally when, right? I grew up as a single child, but I observed families that had, you know, friends with one kid and there were two or three kids, and it seemed pretty apparent that those parents were alone, different times, perhaps one child more than another but they would never admit it. Now you're admitting it. And my initial reaction was one of Oh Almost resistance, then went through what went through my head was if you were looking at things in a more holistic manner, the job that I do that makes me money that allows me to have this time with you today, right? He's relevant, and maybe not the practice of a martial art, but it is practice for a martial art. And I think when I look at it that way, what you're saying makes all sorts of sense.
Stephen Watson:
That's great. That's really cool. Yeah, I know, people will say that I started with judo, then I did karate for 12 years. Now I'm into whatever. They don't really say, Now, I only love this. They'll say now I'm into this, or now I'm doing or recently I've been doing. And it's like, well, I can see the love that you're demonstrating. By your actions, you know, and you might still have fun and nostalgia and a deep reverence for when. And I think that's fantastic. And I don't know that it's necessary to love your art, you know, I think it's really helpful as a human being, as a member of society, to earn from the art, what you can earn from it. And if you happen to love it, I mean, that sounds great. You know, I don't know if I love my art. But I don't, I'm sure it doesn't love me back, it doesn't know who I am. So I don't know if that comes into it. I've found love in my art, you know, so many kung fu brothers and sisters and teachers, and you know, like, the artists full of love, right. But I don't know if I have an objective relation to it. Where this is this other that I can love.
I think that love is an expression that we have of relationship, insofar as I'm currently recognizing self and other which could be stranger or enemy or whatever, or just the barista, or, you know, somebody I have an interaction with for a minute, or love, which we would probably think is a very high form of insofar as we're experiencing self and other love is a pretty good way to experience it. But I don't think of my art as other. Like, it's in me, it is me. You know, for me the most anything else, you know, and that doesn't mean, the art that I experienced in me is the one that I see out there. perfected by my teacher in the way I see it, right? Because I could never quite get it all. And I misunderstood some stuff. And I wasn't there for that class. And then he died, of course, but the art that I am, expressing practice isn't really something I have a relationship with.
Like, I don't really think of myself as having a relationship to my femur. If you cut my leg off, and it's on the other table in the operating room, I would have a relationship with a longing. Oh, no, that's right now I don't feel like having a relationship with it. Like it is me, me and my femur, which is called Steve, we have relationships to other things like you right now. And so, I don't know where I'm going. But I'm certainly comfortable. Not going on and on about how much I love art. I'd certainly, you know, thoroughly enjoy and play at the practice of and including all the mess ups and everything. You know, I screwed that up again, like I'll never get this move. Like, that's as much fun for me as getting the move finally, which is more rare, you know. And that's as much fun as just sort of an ordinary class, you know, kind of just kind of nothing really memorable happened tonight, but we all sweated and worked on stuff and you know, I'm a little healthier. That's great. It's thoroughly enjoyable. You know, that plays out in humanity. You know that our arts allow us.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You've mentioned a few times that you didn't use this word, but I'm going to use tools to understand it. Tai Chi Chuan which is a tool for understanding your Dallas practice. How has that progress been going?
Stephen Watson:
Oh, great. That's really great. So try out a metaphor for you. Right? So, let's imagine that we're both rich and we have gone to a really fancy resort. That really, really fancy one that the other one that we were not. We're not rich enough to see photos. But believe me, it's great. And you said to me after breakfast, like, hey, they have this lazy river, hop on the thing, and it goes around like a big loop for whatever a mile, I don't know. And I'm just gonna hang out and get a drink, hang out for an hour in the sun, and then I'll meet you at lunch. You go do that sounds great. So, later on, when I see I'm gonna probably say what?
Jeremy Lesniak:
You're gonna tell me how it went?
Stephen Watson:
No, you went,
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, you're gonna ask me how it was?
Stephen Watson:
How was it? Right? How, like, did you have fun? Did you meet anybody? You know, was it really cooling? Or did you refill your drink? Are you relaxed? Was it fun, right? Was it aesthetically pleasing the other palm trees around or whatever it might have been? Now, let's say, instead, you and I wake up, and we have our breakfast. You're obviously in the Presidential Suite. So we'll meet at breakfast. But anyway. And we had breakfast and you say, Hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna leave early. I have this thing that came up. And if I leave in the next 20 minutes, I can get to Atlanta, and then or whatever. So I'm going to hit 95. And I'll catch you later. Sorry, I can't stick. Okay. Then later, you call me from the Hartsfield airport. Right? Few hours later, right? What am I going to say? I'm gonna say, did you make it okay, how was the traffic? Did you make it in time? Did you make your flight something like that? I don't know why I'm imagining this resort is in Georgia, but whatever.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It sounds nice. I mean, I'm excited.
Stephen Watson:
Next time, we'll do the podcast, they're on site.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Or we could go to it, we could take a flight to the airport. And record. I've spent a bit of time in that airport. It's not a bad airport, you know, we can find a place that is not bad.
Stephen Watson:
It's really, really massive. I had the best sushi of my life in that airport. I couldn't believe it. massively, massively Good. Great memory. So you're in the airport, you call me? I'm gonna say did you make it on time? Did you make your flight? How was the traffic? Are you safe? Right? Did you have a good time? These are two different stories. One is the lazy river. One is the drive from here to Hartsfield Jackson. So when you asked me how is it? How are the tool arts and the arts that I see as tools? How have they supported me getting the other one? To me? I feel like that's a question as if I was going to the airport. But I was on the lazy river. So the question I think is, the question that I can answer is not. Did I get there any sooner? Did I make it on time? Did I have a good time? In other words, they're not goal centric questions. They're process centric questions. So it would be really weird for me if you came back from the lazy river, and I said, did you get there? Did you make time? How was the traffic like those who just such? Like, obviously, we're asking a question about was it fun? Did I enjoy it? Was it relaxing? Those sorts of questions? Right.
So this is called there's a term for this. It's called the finite game and an infinite game. Ever heard these terms before? So, if you and I say we're going to shoot a game of basketball, what we're going to do is we're going to play three periods, or whatever it is in basketball, or we're going to play the 12, or we're going to play for 10 minutes. And then at the end of it, we look at the score, and then you razz me for a year that you beat me. But if we were just shooting baskets, while we wait for the shuttle to arrive to bring us back from the resort, we're not keeping score, we're just chatting and thrown at the end of that. Nobody says who, who won. And we also don't have to wonder when we end, we just stop when we're not having fun. Or like the shuttle buses here or your arms getting tired. Or I missed three in a row of kind of, you know, I'm gonna just have my coffee. Whereas if you and I said let's play to 10 and at eight points I kind of was like, I don't really you'd be like, Are you kidding me? We have two more points like we can't, we just can't stop now. Right? Imagine a sparring match if you just stopped and like, and there's like 15 times and slept like you just, it's just impossible. Whereas if you and your friend were just half sparring in the parking lot before dinner, as soon as they say your tables are ready, like, Oh, cool.
There's no demand to finish because a finite game must have downs, usually by how many quarters? How many periods? How much time to a certain score. And at the end of that you measure the score. An infinite game is just you and I playing catch, not playing baseball, an infinite game doesn't have bounds. And it's just measured by are we still enjoying this? Are we still..? I'm still on to actually kind of my arthritis is that, you know, that's enough for now. Thanks. That was fun shooting the basketball. So to me, I'm not constantly and probably not ever measuring, how helpful are these things to this deeper practice? I mean, I know that they're helpful. So it's not like, I don't know, eating candy bars thinking it's going to make my dad wasn't better, like, they're sensibly going to make it better. And I could probably point to ways in which they have, but it isn't my measure, by any measure. My measure is literally, this makes sense. This is fun. I'm enjoying this. This seems healthy, or growing, and enjoyable, and it doesn't seem destructive or hurtful in any way. That's a win. Right?
I want to create wins that don't have losses on the other side of the ledger. But a finite game is a game in which the common goal is to create a loser. That's the goal of a final, like, hey, you and I enjoy each other. We both like basketball. Let's make sure when we leave here, one of us is upset or feels less. Right. And that's what sparring does. Now, it's not the only thing sparring does, right? It also develops skills and hones things. If you can learn to take criticism, you can look at your video of y'all. Oh my God, I didn't realize I dropped my car. For sure. But it does, for sure. Create a loser because it creates a winner. It must. I mean, I guess you can tie. But it must do that. And that's not really my, my bag. Probably because I'd lose.
Jeremy Lesniak:
To say it another way. And at the risk of oversimplifying, losing all the detail. It's about the journey and not the destination.
Stephen Watson:
It's about the journey and not the destination. Yeah. It's what I call the goal less path. Goal less path. Yeah, it's it's direction, not destination. Right. And so many of us are really focused on our destination, and we see it with new people coming into the martial arts all the time. Sure. Question. One is, who's the teacher? Question two is how long until my black belt? I can't. I mean, I can answer it. You know, I can even sell you an answer. But I can't honestly answer, nor do I want to, you know, but you will be able to answer it. And when you have the answer, come back and tell me, hey, it turned out it was X. Cool. That's very interesting.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There are a handful of martial arts cliches sort of memes that circulate around social media, and the one that you're reminding me of is, you know, how long does it take to master this art? 10 years? Well, what if I train my toys hard in 20 years, right? And what's what falls out of the bottom of the equation is you're focused on the wrong thing. And that's what I'm hearing from you, as you talk about all this is, you're willing to suspend the societally justified definition of what success is correct.
Stephen Watson:
Because at some point very early on, you had the good fortune and blessing to not be driven in that way. And you've been able to walk that path. Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah. You know, I see your society but I'm building a different one. You know, and I recognize I'm not a hermit, and I live in a society I benefit from, you know, but I think one of the roles is to suggest alternatives. Even if they're meekly murmured in the Gale wind of the rest of society, you know, That's, that's okay. To me it feels like it's being sensible, truthful, sincere. And of course, I feel it's necessary. But magic most people feel what they do is necessary. So, I'm not special in that regard. Yeah, I find it, it's much easier for people just to not really understand how society, culture, ritual expectations help to drive us or hurt us, if you will. And not even kind of see it, and then not understand it, and then not really act in a way that is healing and hold for the self and the community doesn't mean revolution. But I think it means education. You know, I think, you know, if there is a superpower, it's education, you know. And, unfortunately, education is a two way street. It's not indoctrination, it's education. Like, we need to have a relationship of rapport, some recognition and some time. And then obviously, you have to do the work, and I'll keep doing the work, you know, it's obviously complex.
But you can't just know the right answer, and then buy a billboard and put the answer up, and everything's fixed. Even if you do have the right answer. People have to be aware of it, including you, you have to develop a relationship, there has to be time spent, and then work done, and then probably review and read repetition. And, you know, so unlike a lot of people, I have my small little school, trying to say what I think is important and necessary, to the few people that are around to hear it. And hopefully, it's enough people that the lights can stay on. And you know, that's the work I'm able to do, you know, I think that it's very easy to think you have the answer. And then mistake that for thinking everybody's ready to hear it. So you have to wait or create those opportunities for people to be in your field that will cure it. For example, I was at a workshop not too long ago that you were teaching. And I'm just making this up, but you're doing your thing, teaching your thing. You can imagine I was sitting there saying, well, that's not right, I have this other way to explain that there's a better way to do it. And that wasn't thinking that but I might have been right. Or somebody might have been even if I'm like objectively right? And you're objectively wrong, even though you're teaching. If I stand up and say listen up, everybody. This guy's got it wrong.
Here's the one true answer. Nobody's going to hear it. Nobody's invited me to teach them your teaching. I'm just going to be seen as a rude guy who's, you know, arrogant or something, even if I'm objectively right, right. In other words, that's not the time and the place. The time in the places when those people see me as the teacher, however, temporarily, and then could just be somebody asking for advice. And it could be a regular student of mine, man, it's like okay, now we have a relationship. And now I'm hopefully practicing that. Sharing my understanding. This, you know, doesn't really do me any good to have the answer, but not be able to convey it. It makes sense. Yeah. And I totally made that up by the way.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I saw the smile on your face. Good job. People rarely smile that way when they think that what I'm teaching is crap. Maybe they are thankful that they don't have to learn anything at that point. But no, I wouldn't. I would not have imagined that.
Stephen Watson:
No, it was really fun.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm glad.
Stephen Watson:
The way you are Andrew both had a really good sort of play vibe. Yeah. Like, sort of deflating the formality. A little bit in teaching series stuff, but there wasn't a very just, you know, don't be and so it was nice.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Thank you. Thank you.
Stephen Watson:
I always have whenever I'm tea, I don't know if you can see behind me I have a pooh bear.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I see.
Stephen Watson:
Usually whenever I teach I have a stuffed animal with me. I love because it prevents the onset of formality.
Jeremy Lesniak:
To be overly formal and throw around titles when there are stuffed animals.
Stephen Watson:
So, I travel with a little piglet or something and set it down and people, you know, the tones of voice are all different. And they know what they're getting right away.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So here's a question, please. Because I'm gonna guess that there are a good chunk of people listening to this who hear you. They can academically, educationally, perceive what you are sharing these ideas. Right. But they're also observing enough to recognize that much of what you're saying is completely counter to how they have approached everything. Right? Where might they start? How do you move from finite game, to in game
Stephen Watson:
if you choose? Yeah. And then moving from one to the other. isn't like the door gets closed and painted over behind you, and you can move back and forth. Like I suggested with the accountant. If the accountant calls after like, pay attention, she says this much money on this date, and you don't want to mess something like that up. I can understand that. So I think there are probably innumerable ways, there is probably no easy way to do it. But every way to do it is simple. Because we know simple and easy are two different things. So there are probably innumerable ways I don't want to suggest that I have the best way. Because it might very well be different for everybody. But a great way to do it is to take your shoes off, where you wouldn't normally take them off. Maybe not in the hospital or the restaurant, maybe like there's probably a health reason you shouldn't be there, maybe take your shoes off where you normally would, you know, something just a little bit out of the box.
And you know, maybe somebody makes fun of it, or maybe says hey, you need to put those on? Or what are you doing, or that's funny. Maybe it leaves things a little bit, lightens things a little bit. But importantly, physically, it removes the separation between yourself and the earth. Right, it might not remove all of it, you might still be on carpeting, which is on top of the sub floor, and you're on the fifth floor of the office building. So, I prefer you know, if people can do it to you know, actually do it on the earth, outdoors, it's now it's December, it's maybe a little harder for people in this part of the world. But it might not be impossible, and I didn't say you have to be barefoot all day, you can do it for three minutes. And while we're talking about it, most people that I'm likely to teach in person are gonna say I can do that on the earth barefoot and what they think is lawn when I say Earth, but maybe the lawn isn't the most natural thing. It's just more natural than most of what you step on. But it maybe isn't really the most natural thing, although it's fine, great.
Go do it, but maybe just walking through the forest, or on the rocks at the beach, or just like a little bit more connected to the earth to help you physically sense the connection to the earth, not any magic flows of Yoda energy or anything just physically connected to the earth. And so when I talked earlier about, you know, studying philosophy and stuff, you think we'll study philosophy so which college and what degree and how many books and what was the you know, your six year degree about? No, no, it's, it's really much more about sense. The body senses physicality more than it is about the mind. And so literally trying to make your connection to something natural through the feet, which is about as far from your head you can get. Right? Is a really healthy thing later you can think about it. Hey, that might have meant this philosophical thing and in terms of Chinese medicine that let me look that up later. Okay, your brain, they'll do what your brains gonna do but let your body right, that is the feet. Feel the Earth One of the most? I would say probably two thirds of my classes and private lessons mostly. Yeah, yeah, I would say that's probably true, probably like four, for a day meeting this description. They probably look more like a psychological session than anything else. Like we warm up, we physically move their bodies, they have a question about what they're learning. And then, so anyway, my sister's still staying with us and the thing and we talk and they open up and we share, and we talk when we talk. And then at the end of it, I'm trying to find, here's a perspective you're forgetting, here's an insight you haven't yet had.
Here's an exercise. Here's a poem to read. Here's a practice that you've already learned. But this is why you learned it, maybe try that in this context, or here's a whole new thing you haven't learned before. But to kind of basically do a prescription, like here's a prescription based on that. But somebody peeking in would probably think it doesn't look like a Tai Chi class. Quite often, right? And my advanced students who maybe have been with me for 25 years, you know, they might come in and just sit and we just sit for two hours, it doesn't look like Tai Chi. After 25 years, I don't really need to see their form. I know what they're, you know, they don't need to show, but they have other stuff. They want to talk about whatever late and so we're using the brain. So that's great. It's fine. But anyway, probably my favorite advice that I've given very often, which is deeply Chinese, it's intrinsically philosophical. It's perfect in every Tai Chi book. And that is, I'll say to people this week, you know, probably most people just see every week, this week, when I wanted to do when you're going about your life, when you see a swing, stop what you're doing and get on the swing. Just swing? Well, I can see that there might be a school and it wouldn't. I'm not a member of that park. And I have no, I gave you the homework. When you see a swing, stop on the swing. Was there a deep foot? I don't know. I'm just thinking of swinging, like reconnecting with something that's that basic, which doesn't need the philosophical underpinnings to reveal something to you of the world and reveal something of the world to you.
And I say reveal, but it'll probably remind you of the swing guide. I used to do this. When I was six, I would never walk past this room. You know, even if my mom says we're late to try and get on. Now, you all these spots, I see this swing, but I don't even pay attention. And if I do think about it, I have all these thoughts like, I'm not dressed, right? And what would happen if somebody I know sees me, and I'm late for my Starbucks appointment? And maybe I won't fit and I might pull my back out? Like, no, no, just kind of this way. I didn't say go really high or do it for half an hour. Just kind of on the swing. And so to your question, how can somebody start going on a swing? Course I mean, that metaphorically, it might not be a swing, it might be something similar. So try that, you know, when you see a curb, you know, walk on the curb instead of next to the curb, like you might have done when you were a kid, you know, that little balance being us do that for a minute. Just allow a little bit of the romance of delight to come into your life that comes into or opens up something different than purely through the intellectual.
Yeah, and not that, that reminds you of who you've been, you know, and we have this weird thing in our language where we think that we grow up. And it means no longer as if we're larva becoming butterflies and becoming wholly different. But is that necessarily true? Like, can't we continue to be who we've been? And like still calling back your account and doing adult stuff like, can't we continue to be who we were? Must we stop being kids once we're adults? So in Taoism, they talked about the value of being childlike not childish, childlike. And when you hear the two words together, you can say oh, and then think about it before, but there's definitely a difference. Not only be childish, but be childlike. And you can be childlike. While you're moving your excavator and doing a very adult thing, you know, like, you can be chocolate.
Jeremy Lesniak:
An interesting example. Because I don't know, what is more child like them, they are taking in the dirt. Yeah, with a toy truck. Yes. This one just happens to have a diesel motor.
Stephen Watson:
Right. Exactly. So yeah, that feeling of kind of, you know, I talked about the physical connection with the, the substance of the earth. And then the physical connection with the, maybe we'll call it psychological or emotional action or movements like on the swing, those are both like important elements to what I do. And obviously, it doesn't have to be a swing. And it doesn't have to be your bare feet. It can be something similar, like a garden with your hands or, you know, walk on the beach. And I'll often tell students, like, look, here's how much it costs to study with me. And then it'll add up, because you'll be here at it for a while. That's how it goes. And you can look around, I haven't gotten rich, but it still costs, what are you going to do? If you want to save yourself some money, like just go sit under a tree every day. There's nothing I can teach you that won't be taught there. But it turns out most of my students are Americans. And that is not tempting. That sounds like you need patients. It sounds like so much.
Yeah, then they'd much rather hear it in English. And I'll tell them like mostly my job is to shortcut things. Like, here's how I did it wrong for six years, here's the lesson. And the lesson is four words or three minutes or one exercise. So that you can get further faster than I failed to do. And that's mostly what I described myself as an unknown teacher, that's what my job is, I'm an unknown teacher, my job is to unteach the things that you think you already learned. Which gets to that idea of kind of remembering the childlike nature, remembering the pleasure of the Earth, remembering the infinite game, you know, you know, a kid doesn't know what work is, they know what play is, you know, they have to learn it in school, what work is you got homework, you know, work on your project, and then they think that doing sports is going to be play like, “Okay, I have to do on the schoolwork, all these subjects”, and then I get to play but once they get to play, they realize all the all the sports are finite games. We have the semi finals coming up and we have the regionals coming up and you have to make the team and you know, or you have to be third chair, bassoon, and you know, even if it's music, and they, they sort of co ops that, you know, finite architecture, which has a place has a role like I'm not against it. I'm really just rather pro all of it
Jeremy Lesniak:
How can people get a hold of you? Website, social media, anything you're willing to share?
Stephen Watson:
Yeah. If you type in linktree in Google. Yeah, I don't know if you know the site linktree and then type in someday farm so three words: link tree, someday and farm. t=That'll take you right to my linktree page, which is like linktr.ee/SomedayFarm however, they abbreviate it but that'll take you to most people interacting with me on Facebook. I have a pretty good presence there. But my linktree will take you to my YouTube page, it'll take you to my Patreon page and will take you to all that. I post on YouTube, I think every day. I've filmed for things today already. And so I do a lot of zoom classes so people can join. Whether it's you know, doing, you know, a self defense class or stretching class or a philosophy class or whatever, tai chi. And then I post a zillion things on Patreon and YouTube so people can follow you know, outside the bounds of time and space.
Jeremy Lesniak:
This has been great and, you know, I think our format here. So this is where I pass the ball back to you for one last bit of bounded finite play because I'm going to record an outro intro now. A little later. What are your final words? What do you want to leave the audience with today?
Stephen Watson:
I wouldn't say you say train hard smile. Have a great day. Yeah, I say train soft cry. Have a great life. And I like yours. Maybe I'd sign off with train software. So I don't say train only softer stop training hard train. And like, remember, there's another there's another element here, train soft cry. People think smiling is better than crying until you cry and you realize, oh, this is needed. I don't think crying is a negative, it's another lubricant. As smiling can be for sure. And then have a great life. Which isn't necessarily longer than a day you know, could be less than a day. So to really have a great now, but I'd say have a great now is you know, have a great now, deliver a great now, share a great now.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, if you're still listening, you probably listened to the whole thing, which tells me you know how fun a conversation that was. I've had the pleasure of talking to all kinds of martial artists. And I always enjoy my time with them. Hopefully that comes through when I record these episodes, you can tell I enjoyed myself. But even though I'm enjoying myself, I wouldn't always describe my conversations as fun. This one was fun. This was a ton of fun. And I hope that you enjoyed that part of it. I hope you smiled because Stephen and I certainly did. Stephen, thanks for coming on the show. I look forward to the next time we get to connect in person.
Listeners, check out whistlekickmartialartsradio.com for the show notes. And if you're willing to support us remember whistlekick.com/family. That's where you're gonna find all the things like Patreon. Like book reviews, we give you all the links to make it super easy. I put a bunch of time into this page recently. So check it out. Don't forget all the stuff at whistlekick.com from training programs to T-shirts to shorts. There's even shorts over there right now. Use the code PODCAST15, get yourself 15% off. And if you've got suggestions, feedback, anything like that, a guest we should talk to or if you want to schedule me to come to a seminar, teach a seminar at your school. We can do that to Jeremy@whistlekick.com or social media @whistle kick. So that brings us to the end of another episode. Until next time, train hard, smile and have a great day.