Episode 666 - Sensei Kevin Comeau
Sensei Kevin Comeau is a Martial Arts practitioner and instructor of Karate for kids at Open Door Integrative Wellness in White River Junction, Vermont.
It gave me something to be devoted to beyond my practice. I started to realize around that time that this practice makes the most sense when it’s shared. Martial Arts is really a communal practice and not solely an individual practice.
Sensei Kevin Comeau - Episode 666
At the time of the recording of this episode, it’s the 39th anniversary of our guest’s Martial Arts journey. Sensei Kevin Comeau has come a long way and he shows no signs of slowing down. Throughout his career, Sensei Comeau has developed a passion for teaching a very particular age group. Presently, Sensei Comeau teaches Karate for kids at the Open Door Integrative Wellness in Vermont.
In this episode, Sensei Kevin Comeau tells his journey into Martial Arts, and how he found his passion for working with children. Listen and join the conversation!
Show Notes
You may check out Sensei Kevin Comeau’s school at opendooruv.com/martial-arts
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Welcome, everyone, you're tuned in to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio Episode 666. With my guest today, Sensei Kevin Comeau. My name is Jeremy Lesniak, show host and whistlekick founder. And well, what do we do it with? Okay, cool. Pretty simple. Everything we do at whistlekick is in support of the traditional martial arts. If you're interested in what we're doing to that end, please hop over to whistlekick.com, that's our online home, actually just revamped the website. And one of the things you're going to find there, well, you're going to find a store where we sell some stuff, because yeah, there are bills to pay. But if you use the code, PODCAST15 you're going to get 15% off the stuff there. From apparel, to events, to training programs, to protective equipment, and a bunch of other stuff, too. We have a separate website for this show, whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. Because we do a lot with this show, we bring you two episodes each and every week. And well, we do it. Because we're looking to connect and educate and entertain traditional martial artists throughout the world.
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Today's guest started martial arts in high school. And even as a kid found some passion for working with kids. And that right there, frames almost everything that we talk about in today's episode, including Believe it or not working with older folks, instead of trying to draw those connections for you. I'd rather let sensei Kevin draw those connections as he unpacks the story of his time training. So here we go. Hey, Kevin, welcome to whistle kick martial arts radio.
Kevin Comeau:
Good morning, Jeremy.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I appreciate you being here. Did you get snow where you are?
Kevin Comeau:
When I woke up this morning, on the little canoe in our backyard, there was a tiny little dusting, nice confectionery dusting up.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That early snow that most of us look at and go oh, for people down south they don't realize how dramatically different our opinion of snow changes, how much it changes over the course of a winter.
Kevin Comeau:
Now it's, I'm welcoming, coming in. I see all these folks on social media lamenting the arrival of snow. I'm ready.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Do you ski? Are you an outdoor snow person?
Kevin Comeau:
I ski. Yeah. I bring the kids, my wife might bring the kids in. We have a few nice local areas up here, [00:03:52-00:03:54] near where I live. And it is a great way to get out there with the kids. You know, my kids are at the age where they are trying a little bit of everything and seem just a great joy. So, get up to get out there.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Nice. Yeah, when the weather's right, and the conditions are right and everything just kind of clicks. You know, there's that feeling going down the mountain for listeners who may not have skied or may not have reached that level of skill skiing. There's something that's pretty magical about that flow down the side of a mountain.
Kevin Comeau:
Yeah, I get it's a beautiful feeling. It's the same feeling that you're getting with well-done martial arts that flow is such a big experience that you took my transition from me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Great. This is good. I'm going to have an easy time today. I'll just set them up and you can knock them out.
Kevin Comeau:
Jeremy, welcome to the show. I'd like to talk to you today.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's where I was going with it. There's something really similar when you're firing on all cylinders isn't there that it feels effortless, and yet still powerful.
Kevin Comeau:
It's a really beautiful thing. You know, and I recognize it. In sports. When I spoke with my clients, I was telling you a little bit earlier that my regular day job is doing massage therapy, including sports massage. I have a lot of clients who are athletes in different sports. And I hear them you know, no matter what sport you're in, it's something that they're all going after, you know, whether it's golfers or runners, they're looking to hit that beautiful sweet spot where you get that sense of effortlessness, you get that sense of energy and expansion, your whole body feels like it's bigger than it really is. It's this beautiful, universal thing that we're all going after, you know, some of us through martial arts.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Absolutely. No, this is a martial arts show, as we tend to look for the foundation and build from there, not only in conversation, but in history, it's a pretty natural way to go. So, let's do that. You know, what's your start point? Where's your origin story with your training?
Kevin Comeau:
That's a great question. Because today, we're right around today just happening to be my 39th anniversary of starting martial arts.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Cool, happy anniversary.
Kevin Comeau:
Yeah, thank you. I was thinking back when it was right around mid-November ‘92 that I started. So, it's nice to have the show today that we're recording today on this anniversary, and it was a happy accident. I guess I would say I was a high school student not involved in much except the team, which we mentioned earlier. And other things and a friend in high school asked me one day, hey, I'm going to a karate class. And on Tuesday night, come in. I didn't have a good reason to say no. So, I thought, why not? So, I went along, you know, with no expectations and no plans. And then 39 years later, you're still here. You remember that first class. I remember a little bit about it. It was a little late, so many Dojos around the country, this humble little basement studio with a concrete floor and iron tillers and a ratty old rug. And it was beautiful. It was beautiful to me, there's a heavy bag hanging up and no, I gave it a whack and thought, well, that hurts. And I met my instructor who was a nice guy with big muscles and tattoos just, you know, super friendly guy. But I thought, well, this is a different human being. For me, I think there's something I might be able to pick up from this guy. This is really unlike me in a really compelling way. You recognize that even at that age? I think I did. Maybe it's like the memory but maybe I'm ascribing too much wisdom to my 15-year-old self. But that's okay. Revision is just... Yeah, he was just really different. And over time, he came to represent me. I'm not sure what the right word is. A little bit of toughness, but in a really good way.
You know, I'm not that invested in toughness, as a general concept. But he, you know, he helped over the course of my high school years. Take this content and doughy white kid, you know, living in the suburbs. And, you know, start to get me in shape and, and teach me some interesting things like what's it like to get hit? You know, what's it like to tangle with? Something? What's it like to uh, to firm up a little bit? No, martial arts was really responsible for me. When I entered martial arts, I was overweight as well. So, I eventually lost that weight. And kind of transformed me into a couch sitting Cheeto eating Looney Tunes watching suburban kids into, you know, somebody who was really invested in health and wellness and being able to stand up for myself. The way you're talking about? This man makes me wonder how much of your willingness to stick around in the early days was the material and how much was him? That's a good question. I found the material compelling. Unlike some of the other physical activities, I had been involved in, you know, say, skiing or riding my bike around or just playing out in the forest in my house. This was new, the structure was new, you know, their kata and their drills, their exercises. And I was used to that sort of thing in my academic life in school, you know, having to do homework and exercises. And it was really appealing to me.
So, the material was certainly appealing. He was appealing because I think I had had the stereotype for that, tough guys, this fellow was a kickboxer and a jail guard and all sorts of different things. He was a really impressive figure. But it helped me kind of get rid of that stereotype that a tough guy is not a nice guy, because he was really sweet and wonderful and comical and helpful. He had all these wonderful attributes that went along with his martial toughness. And so, I definitely found his personality compelling as well.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What was next? What do you call a transition point, maybe at graduation? Did you move away to go to college? It was or, just stick around. And let's say you're there to transition well, yeah, three transitions in there, I started. And then two things happened before I graduated and went off to college. That was certainly a transition.
Kevin Comeau:
One was, before I got blackballed, just before I went off to college, I got my showdown with the first black belts from him. And that was a really wonderful transition signifies me, wow, I guess I really am serious about it, stick with and study. That traditional notion that you get your first Black Belt says, this is the beginning. Now you're a serious student, you're not an expert, you're not an instructor. Now you're showing that you're, you're a devoted student at this point. So that was important. But before that happened, something really deeply important to me happened, which was that about a year and a half into the practice, he handed over his kids' program. So, I was about 16 and a half or 17. It wasn't that old. And I had been helping them out with the little kid's class. As I said, I was a teenager. And then I liked it. I liked working with the kids. And at one point, he asked me if I was interested in taking it over, I later found out that he didn't actually like it. So, there was an ulterior motive on his part. To hand this off to me, somebody who I saw as trustworthy good with the kids, I was able to do something that he didn't particularly want. So, age, as I said, 16 and a half or 17, I found myself running the kids' program at my school. That was really a big transition. That was as big a transition for me as getting my first black belt. So then moving off into the woods, because it gave me something to be devoted to beyond my own practice. I started to realize around that time, oh, yes, this practice makes the most sense when it's shared that martial arts is really a communal practice. It's not solely an individual practice.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You realize that even at that age, that's a powerful realization.
Kevin Comeau:
Yeah, again, I think what I realized about the importance of that moment, probably came more in retrospect, I'm able to talk about it makes sense. But now I realized how important that was. I was just having fun teaching kids.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's amazing to me, people who teach martial arts, really anything to children. There, I don't think I know anybody who is indifferent to teaching children. They either absolutely love working with children in some specific age groups, or they absolutely despise working with children. And again, even particular age groups. I know people who like to work with three-to-five-year-olds, but not, you know, 11 to 15. Oh no, it's very true. And the blessing community was that I had no idea that I had a certain confidence born of ignorance. That, oh, yeah, sure I can, I can run kids' classes. And I'll just copy what he was doing, when I was watching him teach kids classes. But I'm really glad I started that early, because since I've stuck with children's martial arts education, to my adulthood, I feel like I've gotten a lot of my errors that way. At a time when, since I was young and close in age to the children. It was very forgiving. I think if I made mistakes with the kids, the kids naturally forgave me, because I'm still young myself. You know, the parents weren't holding me to a high standard either. But I really liked it from the start. I think I saw, you know, a little bit of myself and the kids and thought, oh, how great wow, I started age with this kid starting at six or seven, whatever, but a cool thing.
So, it's always been appealing. And when I went off, you know, you asked about transitions. I did of course graduate from high school and headed off to college. And in college, I kind of missed it because there were no little Kids around for me to work with. When I went off to college, I looked around for that kind of thing. You know, at the time, my first school was a Kempo karate school and I looked for something similar on campus. And they didn't have anything. They had a taekwondo club. So, I worked out with them for years. But I definitely missed being with the kids. So, I think one thing that was important about the college years was reminding me that, oh, you know, this that really felt fulfilling, that's the missing aspect, and we get back.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And did you set out to make that happen? Or was it more of a, you know, this whole, this will come back around when it's time?
Kevin Comeau:
What happened there, and, you know, you can make the argument that I was working with kids, when I was working with the taekwondo club, because we were all kids at that age. But near the end of my undergraduate experience, I started to look around in the community, the campus didn't offer what I wanted. So, I looked around in the local community here and found the fellow who would become my mentor and my sensei, which is run train who your buddy Andrew knows very well, since Andrew studied with us, when he came up when he was living up in this area. And I joined since a dream school and you know, he became this magnificent figure from, you know, so, so kind, and yet so capable, at the same time, a set of a different mix of what I had in my first instructor, somebody who has both a fantastic human being and a fantastic martial artist as well. And of course, in his school, he had a Kids program too. So, at that point, I was engaged, not only with my own practice and starting to learn, more appealing form of martial arts that I've done with school, but also getting back to work, kids as well.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What’s next?
Kevin Comeau:
Next, in the next after, I was able to work with since he trained for a while after I graduated. And of course, I didn't stick around this area and eventually came back to this area after four, five.
Jeremy Lesniak:
No, when you say this area, where do you mean?
Kevin Comeau:
Oh, sorry. So, I'm in Vermont. So, I was like a dream school up here. And then embarked on a few years of traveling around as many people do after college, and headed up to the West Coast, and lived in Tacoma for a year, lived in Phoenix for a year, came back and lived in Boston for two years doing my massage training. In all those spaces, I was looking for martial arts, because at that point, I really felt invested. But I don't know if you've ever traveled around a lot and bounced around a lot. But it's very frustrating. So, when I had worked with sensei, I found his approach and the arts that he was teaching so appealing. And then I moved. And like when I went to college, and only found the taekwondo club wasn't my primary art. I worked with it for a while. Similarly, when I went up to the West Coast, I looked around and found in addition to school, which I worked with for a few months, which was nice, but it wasn't quite what I was looking for a fella doing Shotokan, and then went to Phoenix and finally found a go to school, which is the style that I do like. But then I was only in Phoenix for a year with this wonderful school. And then I moved again, then went to Boston and had to start all over again.
And one thing that Trinitarian taught me was the value of your own internal drivers. Because if you don't have a home base, you don't have a home school. If it takes a lot of energy and a lot of focus to keep up with your practice. In the absence of a stable instructor who you have available to school. It's really hard to keep up with the practices. That takes a lot of commitment. And sometimes they succeed and sometimes I fail. Several months at times, without really training. I always knew I would get back to it at some point. So, after all these years and traveling around, I finally settled in with my freshman massage degree in hand back up here in the upper valley as a sensei treating them and then spending 30 more years training with him. So, I definitely had that time period of wondering, do you think you needed to go through that? I think it was really helpful. So, I think one thing it gave me was appreciation and a perspective. One phrase that I learned from a book professor in college, which I've always retained and really delighted in, is the phrase crack detectors.
In the context of the course, the college professor was using it to refer to the developing part of adulthood developing that sense of what's true and what's BS. And having trained with I found a really great instructor to start out with, and then connecting with sensei Treme, when I headed off to the West Coast, and then back to Boston, I probably took part for some time in half a dozen different dojo, everything from Aikido to issue that goes to the shutter con. And some of the instructors were really fantastic. And some were really, really not. So, I think getting that breadth of exposure to different dojo and different approaches, different styles, different everything. Refined my crack detectors and gave me a great sense of what was worth pursuing. So yeah, I'm glad he went through that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now you made a comment and think I heard it correctly. It sounded like there was a finality to sensei treatment to your time with him.
Kevin Comeau:
Yeah, he retired a short time ago. But then he's recently got back into martial arts training. So, I'm looking forward to reconnecting. My schedule is really tough right now. So, it's been hard to connect with him. And help him do that. So, it means I've been running a children's program, here in White River Junction. Which, you know, it's been interesting with getting back in the swing after, after recent events. With the kids, it's been really fun to get the kids going here. So, I have a small group going. I don't have any adult classes, particularly, but I'm offering some women's self-defense classes and pretty much mainly focusing on the pitch right now. One thing that's transpired in my current expression of martial arts is very important. A few years ago, I picked up Tai Chi as a secondary practice. So, most of my martial arts training has been in karate, and also some Japanese jiu jitsu and a little bit of judo. But I picked up Thai Chi when I turned 50, which is now close to five years ago, and added that to what I do and started getting into fights with you to be able to leave basic classes.
And that's become a real joy in my life. So that knows it's come out, I find myself these days, in terms of my not my own practices, certainly, but in my instruction, focusing primarily on the very young and the very old. Because as you know, Tai Chi has a reputation for drawing a lot of elderly folks. Yeah, because it helps so much with balance and coordination and things like that. So, it's become really fascinating to me to compare and contrast what I'm doing with those two different groups, you know, working with a group here, which are primarily from age four to 11, or 12. In the program I have here in White River Junction. And then working in tight Sheehan. In the Tai Chi classes I leave, there are people of all ages. But of course, a large portion of them is older in their 70s and 80s. And I'm teaching one class a week at a local place with independent living for older folks, where all the students exclusively are in their 80s.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now, I'm curious, I'm really so you found fairly early in your affinity for teaching children. And it didn't quite say it this way. But it sounds like there was at least some intention in not offering adult classes at this time, you know, maybe partially available. But a lot of martial arts schools will shoehorn that in wherever they've got to, because for a lot of instructors, teaching kids pays the bills and teaching adults is their passion. Right, right. But then we skip forward, I don't know, 6070 years in human development, and you pick up this other group. So, where's the synergy there? I'm sure it's in there.
Kevin Comeau:
Yes, you know, part of what I'm limited by right now is scheduled. So, I have my own little kids who are ages 6, 10 and 11. And so one thing that's really tough for me with all of their schedules, is that I'm largely not free after about five or five, which is when your typical adult class takes place. So, with tasty food I've been able to find that I'm successfully able to offer it during the daytime, and there are people who can come. And of course, when you're working with an older population, or by and large retired, they have the time and flexibility to come there. So, it's not that I find working with all ages appealing. Logistically, I find myself right now most easily working with, as I said, very young, very old. Keep going, tell us more. Yeah. One thing I was thinking about before the show took place. I was thinking how it's interesting that so much of my focus right now is on what you might call martial arts, beginning and end of life. And there's so many people in martial arts who sort of focus on those dynamic middle years with adolescents and young adults. And, you know, of course, that's an age category. I'm right in the middle, you know, before so. But I find it really interesting to think of what the arts can offer to the very young and to the very old.
So, for example, I was thinking of the respect involved. I had a very interesting short conversation years ago, when I had a chance to take a daylong seminar with Morio Higaonna, who's a very famous Goju-ryu Instructor. And I wanted to ask him, because this isn't the kind of thing I've heard. I know martial arts; I hear so much about what's important in working with adolescents and adults and so forth. But I don't hear a lot of people talking about kids, and what's important to kids. And since that's one of my focuses, I wanted to hear his opinion on that. So, I had a chance to ask him through an interpreter, his wife, his English is not that great. You know, send him what you've heard. I never hear people talking about Budo. You know, working with Buddha with children. And what's your opinion, you know, what's the most important thing when you're working with children trying to teach children Buddha? And his answer, you know, him being, you know, one of the most famous martial artists on the planet was with writing the answer.
And he said, the main thing you need to do with children is to work on etiquette to get that sense of respect established so early. And he said, in addition, you need to put a lot of effort in making sure that parents are on board. So, whatever you're trying to do in the dojo, teaching respect to children, you know, make sure that it's being backed up at home, talk to the parents about how they can support that. You know, those I was just so fascinated by that response, you said anything? No, the whole realm of martial arts, but it all boils back down to that. And, you know, it's interesting, because when I worked with the older folks, the respect is, it's just there, it's great. When I work with the kids, I think the respect is there just needs to be shaped. At some point, I haven't done this so far in my teaching, but I would love to create an opportunity to do some instruction with the kids and the old folks together. Let's see what happens.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I was going to ask you, what do you think would happen? It sounds like it's more experimental. That would I have no idea? I think it would be a complete waste for it. I think everyone would enjoy it. But who knows what comes out of it?
Kevin Comeau:
It's true. But you know, when I've been working with the young folks and with the elderly. I think I've recognized beyond the art and the curriculum of the arts themselves. That exploring martial arts really taps into something for the young and the old, and everybody in between to which, you know, I think there's a fundamental need, maybe it's the deepest need of people, which is the need to belong. People want to feel valued; they want to feel like they're attached to something important. Yeah, that's bigger than themselves. You know, with the kids. You know, I don't want them to feel like they belong to my program because they wear a certain patch or they get a trophy or even If they stick, you know, the best hidden sticking to my agenda, I tend to feel like they belong, because they have this inherent value. As a child, I think that's something that all kids need to hear. And when I, you know, transpose that into the elderly population, you know, one thing that pains me is to see how their society, the elderly is often cast aside and not valued, you know that, but often to be too old to be of any use. But I see that same need there that needs to belong to something that's really important. So that's, that's really fascinating to me, to use martial arts as a way to get people to have this group that they can belong to, and get some value in and feel this wonderful camaraderie. I'm teaching a class, as I said, at this local, elderly, independent living place. And it's the most marvelous thing.
Now, these six or seven folks show up every week, as I said that between 80 and 90, are sometimes in their 90s. And they have a marvelous time with each other. And obviously teaching time here that he grew up not really focusing on the martial side of martial arts, you know, it's Tai Chi, mostly for balance, I do talk about the martial side of their interest. But now, there are some similarities, even within groups, they have this wonderful camaraderie, they feel important. But at the same time, there is a self-defense component, even when you're tired. And what they're learning is to defend themselves against decline. When you're at that age, things, very often, they're not working so well. You know, one person's knee is off and another person's hip is unreliable, another person is forgetful, and can't remember the next step in the forum, you know, from moment to moment. So, I don't know, it's just been a really marvelous thing. So, I think even there, there's that sense of self-defense, you know, the enemy for the older folks, not external. You know, for them, again, it's that tricky need to learn to shore my defenses against something happening there.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Quite often, when I see adult programs, especially adult programs that may have a good chunk of older adults, you know, when we think of a typical adult, “adult martial arts program”, we've got everything from, you know, 12, or 14, in a lot of schools up through. But if we were to look really closely at those ages, they do at least it when we're talking about that age demographic you're working with, it's a lot, it's a lot younger, you know, in the old quote, the old person in most martial arts schools is going to be 40 or 50. And when I see people who are older, I remember I had a gentleman start. This was years ago when I had my school, and he came in at 72. Hmm. And I'm thinking a lot about Rod right now. His name is Rod. And he brought a childlike attitude to it. He wasn't so much focused on getting it right. He was focused on showing up, having fun learning, building some relationships, he was deaf as a door to boot. So, you know, I'd be shouting at him, not because I was mad, but because I was trying to get him to hear me. Yeah, from across the room.
And what I think about him, when I think about other older folks that I've seen in classes, and I promise, I'm bringing this back in a moment. I think a lot of people teach older adults as simply adults who are less capable, and the frustration can come through from the instructor. It sounds like and I'm wondering if this is the heart of the synergy for you. You're leading with something else if you if anybody who teaches kids successfully teaches kids leads from joy. I've never seen an instructor who's great with teaching kids anything who does not find a great deal of joy in it. And just the way you're describing some of these folks who are limited in some ways, I'm going to guess there's a lot of joy in there for you. And you're giving them permission implicitly to feel joy in their practice.
Kevin Comeau:
Yeah, I think that's very true. And yeah, when into that, it happens to my other Tai Chi classes which have more mixed action. Specifically, when they go into that group that's exclusively 80 and above. I go in both assuming nothing, you know, I assume no competence, no capacity. You know, sometimes not even the ability to stand on your feet for more than five minutes at a time, because some of them get very tired and have to sit down and some come in with walkers. And since I start from zero with no assumptions at that point, it's all exploration. So, when they come in, all right, I can take a good guess at what's not working in your body in your life, right now. Let's start with what is working, you know, let's find, let's find something you can do and build from there. And to me, that's a much more positive and much more joyful approach than taking the paradigm of problems like oh, what's wrong? So, you know, I do the same thing in in mind massage therapy, actually, you know, when you do therapeutic massage, like I do, you're used to people coming into the office, and giving you a litany of what's not working, oh, my rotator cuff, oh, stiff neck, sitting, on and on and on and on. And then the massage therapist, you're expected to do something to try to fix it. But I learned something really valuable a long time ago from a great figure in the massage field. Who said, you know, given, I'm paraphrasing, given that folks will tend to shop at your office focused on what's wrong, it's good to remind them that if they arrive at your office on any given day, under their own power, you can assume that there's more going right with that system.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's important. So, it's really important, really important.
Kevin Comeau:
It's a really important mindset to me that, let's start from what's really working here. And what I noticed what the folks you know, who show up at the Tai Chi class, the older folks are, when they walk in the room, and we have this camaraderie that I was talking about before these, they have their crew that they found the little group that they can belong to, you know, they might come in with the walker, they might come in limping, or you know, having forgotten their hearing aids or something like that. But they come in, and what they leave with is a smile. And we start from there, because they're really happy to be there. And I'm really, you know, it's really, it's, it's really quite marvelous. And I think, you know, to tie this back to the concept of self-defense, you know, so many people think that martial arts are supposed to improve your capacity for self-defense. Again, you know, we're not practicing Tai Chi as a martial art with the soldiers. But what's happening is, they're shoring up their defenses, not just against, you know, a knee that might betray their Lord, and their balance, but against loneliness to know, they're forming this wonderful bond with each other and with me. So that is something we all look forward to every week. And that defends against the loneliest defense against isolation. Those are the things that really kill folks. So, to me, it actually makes perfect sense to qualify that as a self-defense class. I agree. I think quite often, the definition of self-defense becomes hyper narrow. And honestly, I think a lot of the people who get tunnel vision on self-defense just don't want to do forms.
Jeremy Lesniak:
How can I justify not doing these things that I don't like, anymore?
Kevin Comeau:
Oh, it doesn't matter.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm a self-defense practitioner.
Kevin Comeau:
Interesting. On the other side, just flip it back to this is? No, because as I said, before, you know, with the older folks, practical self-defense, you know, defending against that person's going to jump out of the bushes and try to grab them. It's really not their concern, certainly not their concern. And when I think of the kids now, with the kids, there is more of a plate, I think, focusing on more practical self-defense pieces, with kids because they're still developing as human beings. The techniques are important, the curriculum is important, skills are important. But to me, what's really important is to help them develop or find the self-that's worth defending. They need to find out who they are first, because I think the foundation of self-defense isn't the techniques. No, that's a vehicle that's going to help you know, learning good techniques for self-defense. But you're not going to apply those until you have this fundamental sense that you are a self, that's worth defending. So, and that, to me, is what Buddha, you know, doing martial arts education with children is really about is to shore up that sense of self, which to me is more important than any individual technique? And how do you do that with those young kids? Um, to be simplistic, I love them. That's where I started, it's just having to start. It has to start with that sense of affection and love. So, you know, their parents love them, theoretically, and we hope they come in. But you know, what it means in that context is to not make maybe the word that you used earlier is just as good a word as love. Because love can seem a little bit morphs to some people, but that sense of joy.
So, I think people who work with kids and want to help them develop that sense of confidence, that gives them the spirit to want to defend themselves that they ever had to do so physically, is to delight in the children. And, and, you know, you get, you know, some children in my class, as with every child's class, really easy to deal with, and some are really difficult. So, I try to make the point of taking them all equally, and finding delight, even in the ones who present as more difficult. One thing that's been really nice over the years for me, is since I haven't tended to focus my kid's instruction on competition, no, we don't tend to go to tournaments and chasing after the trophies is, I've been able to have a program that's a little bit more relaxed, there's not the stress of having prepare for any competitions. So, I found over the years that I'll get a lot of kids coming to the program, who have some real challenges to find that it doesn't work for them to be in a structured sports program, they find that a little bit too overwhelming. So again, kids with Tourette's Syndrome will get kids with autism, kids said the other thing, and, you know, to my delight, they feel like they'll have a place that they can all fit there. They're not expected to fit into any one particular mold. So yeah, to get back to the original question, to help them develop that sense of themselves, that's developed that self-that's really worth standing up for and defending. It all starts with delight, just showing that, you know, whoever you are, you walk through my door, you are valued, where you belong here.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let's kind of bring it up quite full circle, but almost. You talked about assisting with the kids' class, when you were a child, yourself, and the instructor handing that over to you because he didn't really enjoy it. It sounds like your love for teaching children has grown rather than just kind of stayed stagnant. And in that case, makes me think maybe you have some ideas for people listening who don't enjoy teaching children as much as you do. Are there things that they might do differently? Is there a mindset shift you might encourage that may help them move closer to enjoy. Again, this is how we pay the bill.
Kevin Comeau:
Yes. Yeah, it's tricky, because, you know, I hearken back to your comment earlier that there do seem to be folks when it comes to kids who really love it and who really hate it. So, in a sense, it's easy for people like me, who have always had an easy affinity with kids. But you're right. No, there are practicalities in a dojo that historically, it's the kids who pay the bills. And so, if you're an instructor who doesn't feel drawn to that you feel like you need to offer that. Just to have a well-rounded school or to pay the bills. He said that's a tough one. Mindset, how do you change your mindset? I guess one thing that comes to mind when you ask that question is rather than start with one's assumptions of what kids are and how kids behave, and what can happen, or what can't happen, you know, based on your assumptions, is to maybe start either externally or just internally in an internal dialogue with yourself every time a new child comes into your school, to ask two questions. Who are you? And what is it y0ou want because I think our agendas as instructors, our agendas can really get in the way. You know, we all have an agenda, we have curriculum, we have bills to pay, there's all this stuff, we have our own identity structure, and we think we should be as an instructor. But I think if people remember, whether it's, you know, an eight-year-old, or an eight-year-old, coming into a class for the first time, and whether it's Aikido or Tai Chi, you know, the art doesn't really matter, is to say, right, well, who are you? You know, who's this new child? Who exactly are you? And what is that word? Because I think if a child comes in, you know, your question is how to get over some resistance or reluctance or tension and teach children. I think if you allow children to show you and tell you who they are and what they're looking after, then the children can start from a place where they're more delighted.
So, you know, the image that comes to me is often you know, one of my traits about little kids is when it comes to the difference between boys and girls, whenever new students, they are okay. When they show up at a dojo, it seems to me like girls want to learn martial arts. boys want to do martial arts. So, in the beginning, my bit of a gender stereotype, when the boys come in, because I've never actually had a female student, boys will come in and they'll say, oh, this is Kata. Let me show you, I'm going to show you. And when my eyes are rolling back my head, they're going to show me something they saw from some power rangers. But you know, and that used to irritate me a little bit. Like, you know, I got to get on with the lesson. Like, you know, you don't know, Jack, the kid, let me know, just shut up. And let me show you really quick. But then I realized, wait, wait, wait, when they're saying that to me. They're really excited. You know, it's like my own kids, you know, who knows if they come in the house and say, you know, Papa, Papa, look at this, and I'm in the middle of washing dishes now. But I have to as a parent, I have to remind myself, all right, stop, turn around, you know, what this child is showing you is really important to this child. And if I can pause and take that in and acknowledge it, and share a little bit of that delight, then we're going to have a good relationship. This summer, I think the same thing can happen when children show up at classes for a dojo, that, you know, they may have their own notions and you don't, in your eagerness to go in with your own agenda. You don't have to spell staff, you know, you can make a little room by asking those questions like, who are you? You know, what's important to you? You know, tell me a little bit about yourself. And what do you want?
I think that's a question that is sometimes missing in adult classes as well as kids' classes for the instructor to be able to say what is it you want to class? I remember years ago, when, for instance, a tree my instructor had an older woman come into class in her 60s. And you know, 60s is not old and other than 50/60/30 Old. It's all relative, as I approach it correctly, but at the time, you know, he did the wise thing. He asked her Oh, you know, what's know? What are you looking for? From class here, he didn't want to assume she was there with pens or exercise, right? That he's just sincerely interested in knowing. And she told him and as it turned out, she practiced for months. And then she stopped. And that was her plan or plan to be a long-term nurse. She just decided, you know, I'm here and I want to explore it and learn a little something. And then when I'm done, I'm done. And when she finished her time at the dojo, she was happy he was happy. But you know, he made that important decision. He didn't just assume that's what she wanted. So, I think when it comes to kids, be original. No, take the time to be able to find that pause button on your own agenda. Because you might find that to your surprise, kids might actually delight you if you give them the chance.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know through all this, you're teaching. But at the beginning, much of what we talked about really the heart of what we talked about was your own training and you, seeking, looking for things? Hmm? Are you still looking?
Kevin Comeau:
I am still looking. And one thing I feel blessed by is that, you know, I have a natural curiosity about things. So, when I first started that first Kempo class back is a 15-year-old. I was curious enough to say yes to my friend at the high school locker, say, yeah, go to class, we'll see what's up there. And then as I progressed, and went to different geographical areas, I retained enough curiosity to say, oh, there's no karate school in this area. But there's an aikido school, maybe I'll maybe I'll try that. You know, being open to some different approaches. So, I guess I would say that I'm seeking without a distinct sense of what I'm seeking. So, like, I don't know if that makes sense. But I like the notion of pursuit. You know, if somebody has something to offer that seems valuable enough, I want to hear about it. I want to, I want to try to, and, and things do, I think if you retain that sense of curiosity, things do build on each other. So, for example, as I mentioned, five years ago, I started off with Tai Chi, which I just dabbled in a tiny bit, before. And now I've got this great affection for Tai Chi, become this Tai Chi evangelist, go walking around telling everyone that they should try it. And it's been this, this wonderful, new thing that I can, I can seek, I can seek. And so, as I explore more of the ideas and concepts in Tai Chi, I feel that one is right back to my karate practice, oh, this is really interesting. This, this thing in Tai Chi is where that thing came from. So, I continue to make these connections. As I continue to explore, you know, the Tai Chi in particular. So, I think, you know, as I said early on, you know, as I get out of high school, and ahead, that first a fresh, you know, ink still dripping blackbelt. You know, thinking that, oh, at least now I feel like I'm serious about things. I'm hoping that I retain that curiosity and that sense of searching. Until the day I die. The thing that's different I think about me now as a 54-year-old, is feeling. Feeling like I've got a pleasant pace about it, that I feel like I can explore. And I can practice so that I can try things out. Without a really powerful agenda. You know, I don't feel like I need to be the best at something. I don't feel like I need a particular trophy for something or a particular title. It's just fascinating. Just fascinating. Love it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, what if people want to get a hold of you.
Kevin Comeau:
Want to get a hold of me? Probably the best way is through the website. I am currently teaching my program Tai Chi and the kids' program through something called Open Door workshop, which is a health and wellness facility up here in White River Junction. Yes, it's a great little spot. We have folks like me doing massage therapy, we have acupuncturists, we have a physical therapist, nutritional therapy, and we have a variety of classes, dance classes, yoga, Tai chi, the kids’ martial arts. And I think I sent you the link for the other website. So, if you go to the website, and you click on practitioners, you can find my contact information there. And if people listening to this podcast have any interesting thoughts about what I was talking about, or the populations I'm working with? And I'm certainly happy to engage in and so some discussion about any of that over email or things like that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
In one sense gone all over the place today and yet in another way I think it's been a really direct conversation. It's not the right word, cohesive conversation. And that's not to say that other conversations that we have on this show are bad. I think most people would say that's not very cohesive, it's disparaging, it's not how I mean. If longtime listeners know I love the wanderings, they're fun. We wandered, but at the same time, we didn't really wander. We had a theme. We didn't... We had a theme; there we go, is a good way to say it.
Kevin Comeau:
Yeah, we're your thing. And I'm like, there's so many things to explore. Yeah, so many things in martial arts.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I'm just enjoying it. I'm enjoying this theme and what's coming out of it. And, you know, after we're done here, I'm going to have about 400 follow up questions that come to mind that I could have asked you. And we're going to wind down here in a moment. But I'd like to give you one more. Maybe it's the easiest question I can ask. But I think it's also the most important because we have this theme, because you have this almost track, philosophically anyway, that you've been on. You know, you talked a bit about age and how things change over time. So, let's fast forward the tape. You look out 10/20/30 years, when you are in this age group of those folks that you're enjoying working with. If we were to sit down, you know, I would come visit you in the home, the same facility that they're in, you know, hopefully you're not there, but let's see if I can afford it. Oh, it's one of those. Okay. Let's say, you're there. And, you know, Martial Arts Radio is still going 30 years later, and we're on episode, you know, 14 million. And I come to sit down with you, and we have a chat. And what would you hope you would be telling me about where this path this theme has taken you? Up to them?
Kevin Comeau:
Yeah, I love that question. That's a great question. Because I feel like I could answer that. You know, in a very honest and sincere way, I can answer in a coma. You can do all the above if you want. The person in which I had my 85-year-old self would hope that sort of out behind the parking lot. I would have snuck in a little monkey and just after my afternoon, you know Jell-O snack. I can go on with my old hand there. Yeah, I feel like, I think so many of your listeners have found their passion in the martial arts. I feel like I'm a lifer. So, you know, again, I like it. It's a mind massage. Question people have asked me, because I've been doing massage therapy full time now for 28 years. And you know, it's a vigorous profession. There's a lot of wear and tear on the body. But I'm feeling great doing it. When people say, oh, we know. When do you think you might retire? When do you think you might stop, retire? But it hasn't even occurred to me really. I can see tapering. But I don't see retiring because I do have this fascination with it and this passion for it.
So yeah, maybe you know, an age 84. You know, I'd be six years into a new Capoeira practice. If you can picture that. I love it. I hope so. No, you know, one of the most inspiring things I see when I look around social media to find these old clips of, you know, 87-year-old, okay, now, and still breaking boards and things like that, you know, and then they break three or four boards, and then they go lay down for a nap for three hours, but they're still doing it another. So, I want to still be at it. And I still want to be sharing, because I think to me what's more important than the arts, and any of the details of the arts, is what I alluded to earlier. From that sense of sharing the community. As I said earlier, to me, martial arts don't make sense outside of the communal context, that it can never be an individual pursuit. It's not a team sport, exactly, like soccer, basketball. But what it is, is it's a way to communicate and to share something with other people. You know, to me, the most important phrase in martial arts that I've learned is one of the mottos of Kanō Jigorō, the judo founder, which is [00:59:38-00:59:40], which is the principle of mutual benefit. So, when you're practicing arts now in his philosophy, all you know is that rising tide floats all boats, that the whole point of your practice is to help yourself improve and to help all of the folks you're training with improve.
So, when I teach kids classes, I'll say to the kids from time to time, what's your first job? What's your most important job in this class? And they'll have these wonderful answers like Oh, to focus, pay attention, burn the carpet. To me, those are not the primary instances and knowing your most important jobs, make sure that all of your classmates are okay. You know, you need to make sure first and foremost that you're all doing, you're all in this together. And if we can establish that, then we can learn kata, and we can focus and we can pursue all those other things. But we're in this together. And so, I hope, I mean, five years old, training somewhere, I hope I'm not doing it alone.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I have to say one of the things that has really stuck with me, since we closed the conversation of this episode, is this idea of the similarities between working with young kids and older adults. There's something that really interests me there. And I'm looking forward to the next time I teach both groups, because I want to see if I can bring even an ounce of the joy out in working with those folks that Sensei Comeau talked about today. So, sir, thank you. Thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for doing all the things that you do.
If you want show notes, they're probably in your podcast app, but they're also at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. That's where you're gonna find the photos and videos and the social media and the website links and all that good stuff. If you're down to support us in all of our work, well, you do have some options. You could leave a review, buy a book on Amazon, or help out with our Patreon,m patreon.com/whistlekick. Did you know we have a free flexibility program and you can get it with all of our programs at either whistlekickprograms.com or if you want to grab programs and throw a discount code on top of it, whistlekick.com, but the FLEX program is totally absolutely 100% free. If you've got feedback, whether it's topic or guest suggestions, ways we can improve or you want to say hey, you did this really well. We want to hear it. Email me Jeremy@whistlekick.com or social medias @ whistlekick. Until next time, train hard, smile and have a great day.