Episode 624 - Andy Rodriguez
Andy Rodriguez is a Martial Arts practitioner and instructor at the Iwa Dojo - Delaware.
Being a family man helps me be a better teacher. You know, being a Karate teacher and practitioner helps me be a better family man, vice versa. They feed each other.
Andy Rodriguez - Episode 624
Andy Rodriguez is the Iwa Dojo of Delaware Chief Instructor for twenty years. The Iwa Dojo is a progressive traditional school (non-commerical) of martial arts promoting a positive harmonious learning experience. Okinawan Shorin Ryu Karate-do is the primary training focus. They also offer instruction, guidance, and training in Ryukyu Kobudo & Shindo Muso Ryu Jodo.
Andy Rodriguez was first exposed to martial arts in 1980 studying in American Kenpo, but it wasn't until 1984 that his passion for budo was fully ignited by Masaharu Sakimukai Soke when he began his Okinawan Shorin Ryu Karate-Do training. During his Karate-Do training under the tutelage of Masaharu Sakimukai Soke and family, he was also introduced and studied Okinawan Kobudo and Shindo Muso Ryu Jodo up until 1994.
He continued his martial arts training studying Aikido with Zenko Okimura Shihan in 1997. Although his exposure with Okimura Shihan was brief, he was thankful for the experience and for the valuable lessons learned. In 2000, he furthered his training in Shindo Muso Ryu Jodo with the Rembukan dojo up until 2002. In April of 2002 he decided to open his own private dojo focusing on Okinawan Shorin Ryu Karate-Do. In 2003 he requested and became accepted as a branch instructor under the Zentokukai up until 2010. In 2010 he reconnected with Sakimukai Soke and family, and was welcomed back to his original budo roots.
Andy Rodriguez credits Masaharu Sakimukai Soke and family for giving him a extremely strong foundation and passion for budo that continues today. He also is appreciative of Sensei Pizii and Sensei Lemus of the Zentokukai sharing training methods, Patrick McCarthy Hanshi of the Koryu Uchinadi Association for sharing the importance of two person training and the value of futari renzoku-geiko (two person flow drills), and Master Toby Cooling and instructors of the Order of Isshin Ryu for welcoming him in their extended family and sharing their impressive budo. Special thanks to Sensei Iain Abernathy's influence on our deeper understanding of bunkai. He is also very thankful to all Chintokan and Zentokukai instructors and members whom had an impact in furthering his budo development. He has been the chief instructor of the Iwa Dojo going on twenty years.
Andy Rodriguez is currently a branch instructor and member of the So Budo Kai under the guidance of Takako Sakimukai Hanshi and So Shihan.
Show Notes
You can find out more about Andy Rodriguez’s school on their website or at Chintokan.com
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hello and welcome. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio, Episode 624 with my guest today, Andy Rodriguez. Who am I? Well, I'm Jeremy Lesniak, and I'm just a guy who loves martial arts and said, “Hey, I want that to be my job”. So, I made it my job. And this show is part of that job. If you want to see all the things that we've got going at whistlekick, you can go to, drumroll please, whistlekick.com, because I don't name things in any kind of funky creative way. We make it easy. Whistlekick.com is where you're going to find out all the projects and the products that we've got going on, to enhance your martial arts experience. Because we love traditional martial arts and we're going to give you all the stuff we can to help you get as much out of your martial arts lifestyle as possible. One of the things that you'll find at whistlekick.com is our store, it's one of the ways that we pay the bills. And if you use the code: PODCAST15. you're going to save 15% on maybe some gear, or uniform, or a shirt, or a hat, or any one of the other many things that we've got over there. Now, if you want to dig deeper on this show, go to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. Remember, when I said I don't name things in any kind of creative way, whistlekickmartialartsradio.com is the place you're going to find everything related to this show, whether it's transcripts, or videos, photos, social media, and web links, all kinds of good stuff over there for this, and every single episode we have ever done. The show comes out twice a week, we bring you two episodes for free. And the whole goal is to connect and educate and entertain you, the traditional martial artists of the world.
Now of all this stuff that we do, if it means something to you, if you get value out of it, and you want to support us, well, first off you listening and saying nice things. That's the number one thing I can ask for. But if you're willing to do a little bit more, yeah, you could buy some, you could also check out our training programs at whistlekickprograms.com. If you want to get faster if you want the only training protocol for becoming a faster martial artist, you will find it over there for... I guarantee less than you think it would be. If you want to grab one of our books at Amazon, go to amazon.com and search for whistlekick and you're going to find all kinds of stuff over there. But we've also got a Patreon account, patreon.com/whistlekick, it's a place where we post exclusive content. And if you contribute as little as two bucks a month, you're going to get access. We've got a few tears over there. The more you throw, the more we're going to give you exclusive behind the scenes, audio, video, all kinds of stuff that you aren't going to find anywhere else. And you also get bonus exclusive merch that depending on the tier you're in, we just kind of throw you automatically we included that recently. We didn't raise the prices because we're all about value. My conversation today with Andy Rodriguez was well, it was fun. I just had a lot of fun talking when we talked about all the stuff that you would think. We talked about training. We talked about his school and teaching and how we got started and his views on a dozen different things. But what I think I found most enjoyable about this one is that because we agreed on a lot of things, and he was so willing to be open. I would take a stab and say, “Well, how about this thing?” And he would say yeah, and he was almost that if you know anything about improv, it's all over the place. And it was great. And we had a wonderful time was I had a wonderful time. I think he did too. And I think you're going to have a wonderful time listening. So here it goes. Hey, Andy, welcome to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio.
Andy Rodriguez:
Thank you very much, Jeremy. Nice to be here.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's great to have you here. Thank you. You know, listeners as I'm sure you all know, in almost every episode, we have kind of some pre-show, chat, you know, and it sets the tone. And I don't usually share what I just shared with you and with most of the guests because it gets almost a little morose. When I think about it that way, you know, but it seems like you get it. So, I'm looking forward to a good episode. A nice open episode, good conversation. Good stuff. So, thanks for that.
Andy Rodriguez:
Thank you.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, well, we've got to start somewhere. Okay, and I've got half a dozen questions kind of at the ready that I could ask you that would help us start. And lately I've been trying to introduce some different ones just for the sake of variety. So, I'm going to throw one at you that I've never asked as an opening question before, but let's give it a whirl. What was your last training session like?
Andy Rodriguez:
Last training session? Last was last night. And it was therapeutic. How about that? I had a great long weekend this past weekend with my youngest daughter's high school graduation. And so, we actually use my home dojo sometimes for family parties. And so, it was a busy weekend and I thoroughly enjoyed it, you know, we just had such a great time celebrating our daughter's graduation. And I could not after that was done could not wait to get the dojo back, up and ready. And train that very next day is almost like a release after a very exciting yet stressful weekend. But that's what the dojos force is, for me personally to kind of re-energize and reset.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's awesome, that you have a home dojo, is it? How much have you put into that people sometimes go kind of crazy with their home dojo?
Andy Rodriguez:
I like to keep it simple. My home dojo has, over my 19th year teaching and training at home dojo. And so next year will be our 20th anniversary. And I love it, I love it. I love that it truly feels like a family environment. A lot of the people that I've trained with me for many years, I've grown to kind of view them like an extended truly an extended family, through blood, sweat, and tears. And there's just a lot of sauces to have. For me personally upon dojos, it's what works for me, especially during the pandemic. You know, during the pandemic, I felt really bad for many of the commercial villages out there. And I want to... also please forgive me, I want a big shout out to my parent organization [00:06:44-00:06:46] down in Jacksonville, Florida, [00:06:47-00:06:58] for training back in 1984. Amazing individual, his son, and his mother is a learning organization right now. So, [00:07:07-00:07:10], they're doing an amazing job. So big shout out to them down in Jacksonville, Florida, for all their support. But you know, during the pandemic, I felt really, you know, it was a very difficult time. I actually work in health care. So, it hit me personally hard on a professional level. Besides, on the dojo level, of course, we could not train for a couple months, I had to deal with currently in a lot of crises at the long-term care facility that I work at, for the first couple months when we had an outbreak. So, it was very challenging, I had to put a pause on regular teaching and training for a couple months, it was really the first time that I had to do that, and 18/19 years. So, it was very difficult. But we started a phasing approach with my dojo, after things started to kind of slow down a little bit, as far as the pandemic and nearing the spring and summer, you know, phased in with outside training. And because you know, we have such a small dojo of as far as membership, it's a lot easier to kind of keep track of the individuals as far as contact tracing and for screening and things like that. So, we are pretty much up and running to normal training by June or July, which was great. So, I thoroughly enjoy it. I give all respect to all those individuals who are able to have a commercial dojo and keep things going. It's very challenging. I know. But all those who are out there, you do good work. Thank you.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, it's, it is not been an easy time for martial art schools. But one of the things is that we've seen kind of, as we were coming out of everything, is that there's a lot of pent-up demand. And it's sad that a lot of schools have had to close but the ones that have managed to survive, are attracting students at a rate that many of them had never seen before. And I'm hopeful that this will lead into, you know, I don't know if I want to go so far as to say, another golden age of martial arts enrollment, but maybe at least an uptick?
Andy Rodriguez:
I think so I think that once you know, we had the pandemic, I think the initial thought was, “Oh, well, it's okay, you can do it online”. But I think after a few months, people were really, you know, they were really hungry, to connect with others and train others on a personal level in a dojo setting, in a gym setting, and they missed the value. I mean, you hear our own stories of masters, you know, famous masters, they go in solitude to the mountains, and they figure out a secret technique and they bring it down, they call this is my [00:09:55-00:09:56]. You know, this is what I discovered, and I've been in the mountains in solitude. For many years, and I came down to share this with you, I felt like that the pandemic was almost like the world make making everyone go to the mountain, to solitude. And it was very interesting for me personally as a martial art for, you know, since the 80s. That I really value training in solitude. But I so value training with others. Oh, my gosh, it just gave me like... Wow, I just missed it so much.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, I'm right there with you. And I know, we're not alone in that. Here's a question. One of my kind of core philosophies in life is that any negative, if you look at it creatively enough, there's a positive there, maybe it's just the lesson. But I think oftentimes, professionally, you know, whether it's a business or our job, or whatever, if we take a negative situation, there's a way that we can turn it into an asset, you know, liability can be flipped?
Andy Rodriguez:
Absolutely.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Was there anything like that for you, as you went through the process of, you know, pulling back and then stepping back in over the last 18 months or so?
Andy Rodriguez:
What was interesting was that, when the outbreak that happened at the long-term care facility that I work in, and I've been there, this will be my 25th year, work on a regional level and human resources, but many of the individuals that work at this facility, I hired them, and I always felt like all the years I've been practicing martial arts that, you know, I feel confident that I could take care of myself and take care of my loved ones. But when the outbreak, you know, really happened in that facility. And in my facility was the first outbreak in our state was us at our location, our location was ground zero. And I remember coming home that first day, and after we had lost so many people, to me, patients that in less than a week, close to 11 residents. And I felt helpless and I thought to myself, he did all that training? I mean, I can't block the virus, I can't punch it. What do I do? So, you know, there was a lot of thoughts that came online. And I remember that our founder of our association said that training physically is very important. But you have to really train mentally as well. And at that point of despair, [00:12:45-00:12:47], wow, I am really lacking on my mental training, on my spiritual training. And he's not the first to say that. [00:12:55-00:13:05] however, well you train. However, no matter how physically strong you are, if you are mentally not clear sighted and stable, you're not going to be able to use your art for self-defense. And that moment of despair at that time was a time for me to kind of like, “Okay, all right”. And I actually, you know, to the point of tears, what do I do? I didn't really have to go into the facility. I did not really have to go into the facility because I could work from home. But all these people count on me as a leader. And so, if I didn't show up, why would they want to show up? And so, at that point, I felt weak that my training wasn't strong enough. And then in the end, I did go in the very next day, and just try to be supportive, help all the departments as well as I could, even though I was afraid of deeply afraid. And I think that maybe the training did help me a little bit. It did make me realize that I still have a long way to go and it's never ending. But that to me was kind of an eye opener. That you know, all the training that we physically do. You know, that it really the true foundation is your mental training that's required.
Jeremy Lesniak:
The true foundation? Yeah, yeah, now. That's a subject that I think a lot of people get. I think they either completely agree. I don't have a lot of experience with people who find gray area there. Now personally, I think the mental side, the personal growth, the self-development, whatever you want to call it of training. I think that's the key. I think that's the true value. Yeah, if you want to get stronger martial artists in the best way, you want to get faster if you want to get more flexible martial arts is not the best way. Right. But I think if you want to become the best version of yourself, I think martial arts is the best way.
Andy Rodriguez:
That's right. That's right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Here, was it in your training? Because when we start, I don't know, any white belts, you walk in day one, and they're like, you know, I'm really excited to become a better person. Right? Like we all start with punches and kicks and stances and whatnot, or, you know, trimping and thinking of equivalents. And you're absolutely right. Where was it in your journey, that you started to pay more attention to this other aspect? Where, here we are, in hindsight, this bigger piece of the training the mental side?
Andy Rodriguez:
Well, you know, my Sensei, frequently would do muscle or meditation. But early on in late 80s, when I was moving up the ranks, he generally would have the senior ranks. Usually it was brown belt, and above assists a little bit with teaching the other ranks, the little ranks. And I didn't really, really appreciate I didn't really understand why I was asked to do so I just did it. And then as years passed, when I opened up my home dojo, I starts to understand over time, the value of teaching because you meet a lot of different types of people. When you teach children, you learn a lot of patients, and you make a lot of mistakes, you know, and hopefully, you learn from them. So, I think that from my personal journey, I'm actually teaching the art. Actually, moved me further ahead, on my journey of personal growth. That to me was, as I reflect back, what's what really helped me personally.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When you think about that approach, let's call it a tool in your toolkit. Hmm. Are there any times in your life that stick out where you were thankful that you had that available to any difficult times challenges that you said, “I'm really thankful for my martial training and that it gave me this”, because it made it easier for me to work through or around over whatever you choose?
Andy Rodriguez:
For me, personally, I think the teaching all those years, actually really put me on to appreciate being humble. I've been at different seminars. you have certain individuals that they're very, very confident, and sometimes calm. Confidence comes across a little bit over the top. And I was probably there at one time, and over the years, I realized, “Oh, that was me and my ego”, I need to feed my ego. I have some insecurities myself and that training and working with others, no matter if they were my senior, or they just start walking. They walked into class for the very first day. And when they asked questions, and maybe even challenge why we do certain things, and instead of being defensive and saying just do it, what have you that actually spilled over for me in the workplace where I learned to work with all different types of people. And as far as we're working in management that was extremely helpful and also extremely helpful in my family life as well. So, they all I think help each other being a family man helps me be a better teacher. The karate teacher and practitioner help me to be a better family man and vice versa. So, they kind of feed each other well, as long as I know where to recognize where that negative side that I need to work on to prove.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm with you. Yeah. All right. Now, I don't think we got there. Pardon me if I'm misremembering, this is one of the recording multiple interviews. In a day I try really hard to empty my cup. My brain. Yeah, in between. It doesn't always work. I think I heard you say you started training in 85.
Andy Rodriguez:
I started in 84.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay, but I don't recall hearing the ‘why’.
Andy Rodriguez:
Ah, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Have we talked about the ‘why’?
Andy Rodriguez:
Yeah. Andrew told me that you would ask the ‘why’.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, this is like my favorite. But my two favorite things about people to learn are why did they start training? And why are they still training?
Andy Rodriguez:
Right?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right. So, let's tackle both of those. Let's start with the ‘why did you start’?
Andy Rodriguez:
Actually, I started in 1980, I started American Kempo. And I trained there a couple years, I was an adolescent at that time. And, you know, looking back, I really think my parents were paying the tuition because they really did not have a lot of money. They were raising six kids. My dad always worked two jobs. And then there was at some point where I had to stop training because they just could not afford it. And then over a year or two, I heard about this amazing teacher, [00:20:58-00:21:00] in Delaware. So, I started, working very young, saving my money. And as soon as I got my license, I was able to buy a car, I signed up, and I could not wait. 1984. So, that's when I start. The reason why I start. I would say there are many reasons people start training. And I would say, for many people, when I look back, it was fear. I lived in a neighborhood where we were probably the only on Puerto Rican descent. And so, when my parents moved to the suburbs, when I was one year old, we were the only Hispanics have lived in a certain neighborhood. So, growing up, I had, there were a lot of white kids in the neighborhood, and I look different. When they asked me where I was from, I was different. And so, with that, I was bullied a lot. And I didn't know years later is that the same people that became my friends over the years, they viewed me as a bully too. They said that was a tough kid on the block. And I actually was able to somewhat take care of myself in the neighborhood, but I constantly think deep down inside. Looking back, I probably would not have said that years ago. But now I realized that it was based in fear. And that's why I started training. And I started taking American Kempo. It was a great, it was great a couple of years, it just something didn't feel right. And they used to tell me, you know what, your content is awesome. But different for some reason, the way you move is different. I don't know what it is. And I did well employments and then I found [00:22:50-00:22:58] and I remember a train there and he's like, “Hey, have you practiced?” And he spoke very, very broken English. “Have you practiced Okinawan Karate before?” I said, “No”. He said, because you look like you practice before. So, my movement was kind of natural, to the concept. And in to me, when I started training, I felt at home, like, hey, I've been here before. You know, it felt right. And back then we had, he had two-hour training sessions, which was awesome. And they were intense. I remember walking out of the dojo and my chi was just totally drenched. Almost every night. I remember having so many pains in my legs and my arms. But it felt right, it felt good. And then over time, you know, you start moving up in rank. And you start going to tournament and I did very well in the tournament scene, of course, you know, the Kata regional and national tournament site, you know, one high award nationally as well. And that was attractive because you start people start noticing you, you start getting a little... Your name is in the papers like “Wow, my name is in the paper”. And at that time, didn't realize it but I started using the reason why I started training or I want to say start training because the fear was not an issue anymore why I continued to train and why I continue to train now. And what I learned a few years is that I just enjoy it. I just enjoy it. Karate by Jesse Enkamp. [00:24:40-00:24:42] the young Japanese Sensei in Japan showed a constancy but he interviewed a few Okinawan Senseis that.... They were in their 70s and I think a couple of them said pretty much the same thing. He asked him why do you still train into your 70s or 80s? They simply said, I just enjoy it. I just enjoy training. And one sensei said, “Well, have you ever? What would you? What would you say if just one day you just stop brushing your teeth?” And sensei was like, well, I need to brush my teeth. He said, “Well, I need to train”. That's how I treat my training. It's like, it's something that's part of my living. And that's how I kind of view my training. And today, it brings me joy, I see it, how it has helped me over the years grow as individual. It doesn't always work for that. For everyone, though, I think you have to allow the training to develop the person, the person has to allow it. Some people train for many, many, many years. And they're constantly just primarily focused on the physical aspect of the technique and the strength and the speed. But they lose the awareness of what it can do to a person as far as their spiritual development. I don't even say spiritual, more of their personal development as a human being.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm right there with you. And I'm curious, you know, I got a theory, way back when you were doing Kempo and you didn't move like that. But then you started this new organization. You moved a little more like them. Did your family do a lot of dancing in the home?
Andy Rodriguez:
Jeremy, that's awesome. Yeah, my dad was a pretty awesome dancer. You know, the Hispanic dances from Puerto Rico. He was always cutting the rug at parties and at weddings.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I had a feeling and one of the things that I can say as someone who has trained at a whole bunch of different schools, Kempo, Japanese, Okinawan and I mean, I've been all over the map is that in the Okinawan Kata, I find there's a rhythm to them. Yes, even if you are not taught that rhythm. If you spend enough time doing those forms, you're going to find that rhythm. And I'm guessing that's what you had going in, because that's what your body knew. That's where your appropriate receptive awareness was headed, was towards some kind of rhythm. That I won't say it's absent in Kempo forms, but I have not seen it in the temple that I've trained.
Andy Rodriguez:
You think it's the rhythm of the Kata, of the rhythm of the individual doing the kata, could be a combination of both.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It could be I think you were putting in a rhythm. I'm guessing you were putting in a rhythm that they weren't used to seeing. Yes. Among Kempo practitioners.
Andy Rodriguez:
Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's funny. Yes. But in a different context. It was expected and even appreciated.
Andy Rodriguez:
So, you're basically saying I was doing the Chacha? Is that what you're saying?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, you’re doing it. It can be kind of like...
Andy Rodriguez:
The Chacha Kata.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, I'm trying to come up with the hybridization of the of those words that I don't have anything. Anything more fun than that. So, let's go with it. The Chacha Kata. Cool. Thanks. Thanks for going there with me. I appreciate it.
Andy Rodriguez:
You're welcome.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, at what point did your training become like that? Brushing of the teeth? It sounds like you really identified with that statement. So, I'm guessing you feel that way about your training. When was there a point when you said you know, “I can't stop doing this”?
Andy Rodriguez:
Now then? Yes, that's a good question, too. So, I got married in 1995. And then married 25 years last year, my lovely wife...
Jeremy Lesniak:
Congratulations.
Andy Rodriguez:
Thank you. And first few years of marriage was awesome. But the first two to three years, I mean, I stopped training at the gym's [00:29:23-00:29:14] about 94. Got married and 95 for personal reasons. But the first couple years of marriage, you know, I was off. And my wife when we dated, she knew I was heavy into martial arts. And the first few years and when we have forgotten that we were married, she's like, what's wrong? There's something not right. And I just don't know, I can't put my finger on it. And I just didn't think I would miss it. Didn't even think about it. But then I realized, you know what, I'm mentally off my guinea because I'm not doing what I'm passionate about. I'm passionate about my wife, of course, but you have to have something else. And so that set that point where I realize I started training again. And then things started to come and normalize. And it was almost like “Brain Balance” within me again. Like this was part of me, this is something that is as equal to my right arm. My right arm is missing. I'm going to miss it. So, when I started training, I felt a sense of, you know, again, balance and peace. And that's when I came to realization that this is something I just really cannot stop. This is part of me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I understand. And I suspect that many, many, if not, most are darn close to all the people listening can relate to what you're saying, you know, people, we don't have a whole lot of casual martial artists listening to the show, they listen because they're really passionate about martial art, and they want to hear other people who are passionate about martial arts. How do I ask this? When we think about how martial arts helps us grow and develop become a different person, I think you would agree with me, a better version of ourselves. When we think about that growth, where is that most apparent, if you were to take someone who knew you really, really well, up until, let's say that the day before you started training, where maybe you know, a little bit after, but they hadn't seen you until now, maybe 10 or 15 years in your training, 20 years now, whatever is easiest to think about. And we reintroduced you, what would they notice is different about you?
Andy Rodriguez:
Well, there are a couple... There's an individual actually, that train with me now. And we knew each other 30 plus years ago, under the same organization, and then another individual that trains with me as well. And that we again, we knew each other back in the 90s. And they it's funny that you asked that. We've had this conversation in the past year, separately, they didn't speak to each other, they know each other very well. But somehow that topic came up, “Andy, you're not the same person that you were when I first knew you”. What do you mean? “Well, you were kind of a hothead”. You didn't have too much of a filter. And I still have to work on my filter, sometimes social circles. But you would you say anything other than the etiquette; you're always getting in trouble with sensei. And but yeah, it was more of so much energy balled up, just like having a difficult time controlling that energy. And that's how they kind of described it but you're a different person now. Whatever has happened to you, it must be the training, must be again, you know, being a family man, and all these things put together, that helped change it because you are so different. And so farther ahead than you were years ago. So that to me, it's nice to hear, I know, I have a long way to go.
And when I get there, I'll probably be under the ground. But that's nice hearing, you know, my own kids too. I have three children. And I specifically, you know, one of the reasons I started a home dojo was to share my martial arts, my karate, primarily to my kids. And so, each one of you know, both of my boys, I started at age five, and voted friends and family and their kids, so they would have other kids their age to train with. And my daughter started age four and they would, over the years helped me grow as a person and as a teacher, because, you know, one of the things that.... If you're an instructor and a commercial dojo, and you teach a class, and then you go home, very rarely do. From your immediate students, they can't give you immediate feedback, because maybe they're not family, but I had family, we just walk right in the house. And so, they will say, “Why did you say that?” Why did you? Why are you focusing on me when you're correcting me? Everyone was looking at me. And so, I would get those comments from my own kids. And I would say, you know what, I need to work on how I work with others in different ways so that I can get the same message across but also be sensitive to each individual and how they receive that correction. So, between my friends over many years and my family, having that feedback and being open to feedback, and sometimes it was painful to hear, I was able to grow and continue to grow.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let's kind of jump into an alternate dimension, Time Machine sort of thing. Awesome. Let's pretend you didn't find martial arts. And let's say, today, we're having a conversation. Obviously, wouldn't be on a martial arts podcast, but we're sitting down talking and I'm learning about your life. Obviously, you wouldn't have a home dojo. There are lots of, you know, kind of micro experiences smaller things that we could check off and say these things wouldn't have happened. But what about it at a deeper, more fundamental level? What would you be doing, if you hadn't kept training or found training to begin with?
Andy Rodriguez:
Well, I mean, I grew up in an OK neighborhood, but there were some tough areas. And I had some friends that were involved in drugs and alcohol, very, very young ages. And I truly believe that if I did not start training, and I didn't have, I mean, my parents were amazing. I can't say anything more, but they just worked all the time. And it was hard for them to parent when they're working all the time. And also raising six kids. So, when I was able to start training with Master Sakimukai, he basically was helping my parents bring me up and go on the right path. And I think that if I didn't have that, I would probably not be where I am at all today. I would many of the friends I grew up with are unfortunately, either in jail or, you know, we're not here anymore. And I think my life will be totally different.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, it's interesting when we consider that question, because I think so many of us what you were talking about, you know, that high energy, that intensity, as a youth, I fully identify with that. And, you know, I don't know if any of my past instructors are going to listen to this episode. But you know, if they do, they're nodding along right now saying, “Yeah, yeah, Jeremy, he isn't”. He wasn't the only one. You were like this too. And for so many of us, martial arts, almost this accidental intervention, that whether it's fate, or you know, higher power without luck, whatever you believe. I'm so thankful. I suspect you are and so many others are thankful that it happened at the time that it did, because who knows?
Andy Rodriguez:
That's right, who knows where we would have gone. And everyone finds different, you know, there are other, of course, other people that are not into martial arts. They could be into music, they could be into writing, they could be into art, I think what's interesting about martial arts is that camaraderie that you build your learning, learning certain values to help develop you as a human being, that you don't really necessarily get the same thing when you're studying how to play a guitar or a piano individually. So, I think with that respect, that worked for me and other people, they probably didn't need such an activity to put them on the right track, because they may have already been there. I definitely needed it. That's for sure. So, my parents were grateful that I started training, and I had an outlet and I had an awesome teacher and an organization of supportive friends and dojo mates to help me along as well.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Have you ever had a student that reminds you of you as a youth?
Andy Rodriguez:
My daughte. Yeah, yeah. My daughter. She's got that Latin temper. So yeah, she definitely. My two sons are more like their mother. Very gentlel, but, you know, they could take care of themselves. But definitely my daughter, for sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
In seeing some of yourself in her, does that make it easier/harder, both in training her?
Andy Rodriguez:
It was definitely more difficult. Because when you're in that person's place, and you say, “hey, I've been there before”. I know what you're dealing with. I mean, when you know, especially if it's your own child, they don't really get it. They probably think that she's probably thinking that it's just lip service. And, you know, I get that. I mean, I remember when my father used to talk to me when I used to get in trouble and you would probably say the same thing, don't go on this path, because it's going to happen. What have you learned from my lessons? What have you...? So, something, you know, you've kind of learned that, or at least in the last couple years that all you can really do as a Sensei, regardless if you're the father or not is really guide and be a good example, and be an open to them, as well, to help, allow them to help you as well, because I would say that my daughter's, you know, and my two sons were a big help for my overall development over the years. And all you have, basically just kind of leave it up to the universe. Hopefully, they find the right way and just kind of point the way, and they can either choose that direction or not, it's up to them, you know, my daughter is 18. Now, as a father, as parents, we had to make the transitions like we really can't. Tell her exactly what to do anymore. She needs to make her own choices, just like we did, you know, went through with our boys. And I kind of try to apply that in the dojo setting, like, you know, for those who are not blood, you know, you try to give them advice, as far as training advice, but it's really up to them to take the ball.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, I get it. One of the subjects that comes up on this show is around the magical educational benefit, not just of training, but of teaching, and how being on the other side. So, to speak, especially your early experiences, as an instructor can be so transformational to your own training and understanding of the arts that you teach. Did you find that for you? Could you give me an example? I mean, I'm not sure. I was trying to pull myself out of it. But I'll put myself right in the middle of it. I learned more in the two years, I had my own martial arts school than any other two, probably five- or 10-year period of time training. Oh, yeah, it was so revolutionary. To me, it was a combination of “this is what my instructors were trying to get me to do, oh, this is what they meant”. Or you run out of ways to explain a thing to somebody who's not getting it, and you keep coming up with new ways. And one of them creates a light bulb moment ago, I have to go completely relearn these 17 things now with this new understanding.
Andy Rodriguez:
Absolutely, I think that as a martial artist, me personally, I don't think I would be where I am today, if it wasn't for teaching, because it made me feel responsible, like, “Okay, I have class Monday night”, and coming up on the weekend, when I'm thinking in my mind what I'm going to go over and I really need to know my material, and you need to know your material. If people, if your students are going to ask you questions, and you are kind of flimsy on your answer. And you're not certain, then they're not going to have confidence you and actually, you're not going to have confidence in yourself. So having my own dojo, 19 years now, I learned very early on back in 2002, that I really needed to immerse myself in a different way as opposed to down to my sensei before because basically, I was just following the whole time, not in leadership position. And you'll learn that to be a good leader, you have to be a good follower. But you also have people that count on you. They're coming to your dojo, because they're bowing to you to say, “Hey, we're trusting you to teach us.” We're trusting you to give us the right answers. And there's a lot of two that put me on those like, if they trust me, that means I need to do my homework. I want to know more about Okinawan martial arts history. I want to know how Okinawan karate was influenced by not only China, not China, but also by Japan and also maybe Siamese fighting as well. I want to know all that. I want to know Okinawan karate, what really is it all about? Was that to me? Today, I do Okinawan karate is almost like the original MMA from years ago, and it gives me great... It's exciting to me to learn more about it. And then not only learning more about Okinawan karate in its history, but also sharing that with the people I train with. And the more we understand it, me personally in my and the people that I train with, it gives more meaning to what we do. And as a student, you're really, you know, when I was on the other side of the coin, so to speak, you basically are bowing to person to, hey, just show me the way, could you just go ahead and catch my fish for me and feed me? I'll just do the physical training for sure. With my own people that I train with, I also try to encourage them to do their own research, to do their own work, to be their own self censor, not to always rely on me. You know, and I always tell the people that I trained with, “who's your number one Sensei?” I sometimes will ask that question. They're like, now, it's you. When you go home, I can't be with you. 24/7, you know, if you're the one that has to self-discipline yourself to train at home, you're the one who... If you want to know more about the history of Okinawan karate, you can come to me. Yes, but you can do your own research. So, I try to empower my students. And also, for me, it brings me joy when I see someone actually go to that level to have a deeper understanding and look at the different applications and Kata in a progressive way and go to the nth degree, instead of just showing up doing the content keyhole, not asking questions, going home and not really dissecting what they're doing. So, I encourage that from white belt with a black belt, of course, when you're Kyu rank very early on, you're just finding the basic things, but doesn't mean you can't ask questions. That doesn't mean you can't have good interactive discussions. So, I hope that answers your... Does that answer your question?
Jeremy Lesniak:
It does. It does. And now I've got a follow up for it. Awesome. When we talk about those good conversations, you can probably imagine as the host of a martial arts podcast, I love good questions in conversation about martial arts, regardless of the subject and almost Irregardless? Yes, I think it's a word of the setting. Is there a way that you as an instructor, encourage especially earlier younger students to ask those questions? Yes, I mean, what do you do to help them feel more comfortable and asking those questions? Som they can they can pull the value out of the answers?
Andy Rodriguez:
Well, I mean, it really depends on the age to like, you know, the little ones, and actually don't teach little ones any longer. It's teenager and above. But when they're little, it's very difficult for them to ask questions, but you'd be surprised what they do ask. My general approach every class is when we do an exercise or a drill. It could be a concert, could be an application drill from the Kata. I always ask active “do you have any questions?” There are no stupid questions here. Give it to me. Let's, as a group, let's talk about what's in your mind. What your thoughts are? Do you have any concerns that something's not going to work or not work? This is a safe space. So, there's that constant discussion, pretty much every class that I have with my members, so that there's no fear to ask those questions. There's no fear to look dumb. There's no fear to, “oh, I don't want to put Andy on the spot”. Because I don't want to, I don't want to feel like that. I'm trying to make him look bad or, yeah, but it takes time. Of course, it's building that trust. A lot of people that train with me now have been training with me for many years. So, it's kind of built into their mindset. And this is, you know, one of the things that I wanted, when we say martial arts tradition, this is the martial arts tradition that I want to pass on, in my dojo, that, you know, when you look at the definition of tradition, you know, one of the Marian definitions says to something like “to pass on a pattern of thought”. And I would say that what I encourage is this pattern of thought, or behavior, that it's okay to ask questions to dive deep, as long as you do it in a respectful way, on both sides, not only from the student, but also from the teacher. And I try to teach them to ask these questions in a respectful etiquette way. But really, everything is open for discussion. So, that's kind of just built that into our dojo culture. And I have been for many, many years. So, it's ingrained in that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And that's what I would have expected is that it's a cultural thing. Yes, I have a theory. And, you know, given that this is part of your culture, I would imagine you would agree, and I don't know how that we test this theory. But I would imagine that if you have a culture where asking questions is encouraged, and it leads to better understanding, as well as more enjoyment, better skill, better retention? Yes, I think I think when we value people's inquisitive nature, which is not always accepted in martial arts, that's quite often you do it this way. Because this is what I'm telling you to do. And there's time and a place for that, you know, I'm not going to suggest otherwise. You're in the middle of your black belt test, you probably don't want to raise your hand and say, but why do we do it like this?
Andy Rodriguez:
Right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Probably, definitely the exact worst time that you could do something like that. That's right. But I'd love for the listeners out there just to think about this point. You know, if you have a school do you encourage even facilitate understanding via questions? Because, you know, it doesn't matter what period of history you go to, you will see that the best academics have some element of question and answer as part of the educational process. And it's something that I think a lot of times in our modern setting, especially our modern martial arts educational setting, that relies on tradition, that we don't always encourage that. It's either considered to be extracurricular or go read this book, or, sadly, we have instructors out there who teach what they teach without understanding what and why they teach.
Andy Rodriguez:
Yes, yes. There's another approach that I do incorporate occasionally in our dojo. Years ago, I trained at a seminar and it was a Koryu, old style of martial art, judo. And we still practice that. We practice that also in my dojo as well [00:52:52-00:52:54]. Anyway, it was about a six-to-seven-hour seminar and the lead sensei said they will be no talking and no questions the whole day. And at the first you know, you think that well, that's terrible. How am I going to learn but my sensei used to say this to [00:53:15-00:53:23] you know, their questions. Yes, you can learn a lot from questions and that feedback, back and forth. But we also want you to develop your judo. Learn by watching, learn by feeling that technique, learn by watching others move and how they move correctly or incorrectly. And there's something to be said to that occasionally, I will have a class and say, okay, there's no discussion today, we're going to try this type of training today, we're just going to learn by watching, learn by feeling, you know, and if we're doing the drill, I'm going to do it, if I feel that there's something that you can improve upon, I'll do with you, back to you. So, you see how I do to you. And you will feel the technique and feeling the technique. Sometimes it's the best teacher than actually just verbally transmitting the knowledge but you have that physical transmission of knowledge that passes through, which is very difficult to get on a zoom call. So, there's pluses, like you said, the very beginning of this podcast, there's negatives and positives to both sides. I would say that sometimes, you know, just watching, just feeling the technique. Just being a sponge is one not one excellent method as well. But the maturity level that [00:54:52-00:54:53] has to be there is very, very hard for a white belt to get that for someone who's just coming in the first day.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Absolutely. I'm right there with you. We all learn slightly differently. Some of us learn kinesthetically. You know, by doing some of us learn visually, some listen by hearing, some learn best by observing two people doing it, you know, and I think that in any kind of good educational environment and a martial art school is an educational environment. You know, first and foremost, the diversity of those instructional techniques, I think is really important. It sounds like you recognize that. Yeah, absolutely. I can see all kinds of benefit to shut up and just do it. Yep. And you're going to figure out part of it, maybe not the whole thing. We're going to figure out part of it. And you might be figuring out part of it that you wouldn't figure out if you were focused on. When do I get next the opportunity to ask this question, so I can understand this part? Exactly. Because you've only got so many brain cycles, and you can't put them all everywhere. You're going to have to split them up if you're worried about more than one thing at a time. Sorry. If people want to find you, website, social media email, stuff like that, where would they go?
Andy Rodriguez:
Thanks, Jeremy. Appreciate that. I have a private dojo in Delaware. Actually, my dojo is at its capacity. But I would refer anyone who's interested in our organization, to look up chintokan.com down in Jacksonville, Florida. Organizations called sip Budo Kai and Chintokan. They are an amazing organization, teach karate, get a long history, they're actually going to be celebrating 60 years of martial arts, teaching and training next year, meet amazing people. Also, I have sister dojo, run by Sensei, [00:56:59-00:57:00] down in Virginia. We are kind of.... He trained with me years ago in the early 2000s. And very accomplished martial arts in his own right, amazing background. [00:57:12-00:57:13] He's looking for some new students as a good man, very talented individual and an awesome teacher. I learned a great deal for him as well. So just want to shout out to those two locations. And we're, you know, the main might, you know, the main parent organization and the [00:57:32-00:57:33] dojo, Cole pepper, Virginia.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Nice, nice. And, of course, you know, we'll walk that stuff at the shownotes at the website whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, for anybody who's new and skip the intro. Thank you. Thank you very much. Of course, of course. Well, thanks for being here. And this is your opportunity to kind of sum it up or parting words, you know, anything like that. You know, what would you want to leave the audience with at the end of our conversation today?
Andy Rodriguez:
And this might be a good topic for another podcast. But there's a gentleman that I discovered not too long ago. His name is, are you familiar with Alexander Bennett? I'm not. Alexander Bennett is a New Zealander. He comes from New Zealand, and he is a professor at a university in Japan. But he's a conditional Kendo teacher and practitioner. And he's an amazing scholar about the history of Kobudo. And I only lead this quote from Alexander Bennett here on this podcast, which I thought was really just hit me deep. And I think it applies to not only Japanese Kobudo, but other martial arts traditions. This is his Japanese Kobudo was hardwired into saying that tradition is the be all and end all and that it must stay as it is. Because it is the way it has always been. But actually, this goes against traditional Kobudo because Kobudo has always been about evolution and change.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I told you it was a great conversation. I told you, we were all over the place with some really good stuff. I want to thank Andy for coming on the show. Thanks for just being such a great guest. I had a lot of fun. And I hope you the listener also had a lot of fun. So, a few housekeeping notes, keep these things in mind. You want to go deeper, maybe missed a link or a mention on the episode somewhere where you're driving, you want to write things down, go to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, go to Episode 624. You can find all the stuff that we talked about. If you want to support us, and I hope that you do, I'm going to give you three things that you could do. You could support our Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick. You could tell somebody about the show, say “Hey, are you familiar with martial arts radio?” No. Well, here's my favorite episode. Give them your favorite episode. Don't just send them a website, send me your favorite episode and tell them why you love it. Okay. And then here's the third thing, go to whistlekickprograms.com and grab the speed training program. Check it out. It's not that much time commitment. It is based on the latest scientific principles. And it works. It really does. So, check that out over there. If you have an idea for the show, if you have some feedback, a gas topic suggestion, something like that. Email me jeremy@whistlekick.com. Remember, you can follow us on social media. We're all over the place at whistlekick. And that's what we've got for you today. Got another episode for you coming soon. So, until next time, train hard, smile. And have a great day.