Episode 583 - Should Martial Arts School Owners Be Responsible for Their Students
In this episode, Jeremy and co-host Andrew Adams talk about Should Martial Arts School Owners Be Responsible for Their Students?
Should Martial Arts School Owners Be Responsible for Their Students - Episode 583
Every martial arts student is so different that school owners cannot tell how they are going to use their skills outside of class. Say, for example, the events in the hit series, Cobra Kai. If you are a martial arts school owner, do you need to have the knowledge of how your students use their skills? In this episode, Jeremy and co-host Andrew Adams talk about Should Martial Arts School Owners Be Responsible for Their Students? Listen to learn more!
Show Notes
We mentioned Episode 514 featuring Cobra Kai’s Jon Hurwitz
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Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hey, there. What's happening everybody? Welcome, this is whistle kick Martial Arts Radio episode 583. Today, Andrew and I are talking about whether or not martial arts school owners are or should be responsible for the conduct of their students outside of class. I have a feeling this one might ruffle some feathers. I've said that before. I like ruffling feathers, makes you guys think. Well, first off. If you want to check us out and see the collective glare of Andrew’s skull and mind, we are on YouTube. And of course, you might be listening to this audio. Most of you listen to this rather than watch. Where can you watch? If you want to see our facial expressions, it's super intense. I mean it injures making faces right now. But I have introduced myself. I'm Jeremy Lesniak, your main host for the show. I'm the guy that, you know, I've put everything I have into this organization, this company whistlekick because I love traditional martial arts. And, so what does that mean? Well, go look at whistlekick.com. See, what does that mean? You'll see all the things that we're working on including some of the things we sell. We got a store. Yes. Because we've got to cover bills and with these bills, we sell you a thing, you give us the money for the thing and it goes to cover some of our expenses and if you use the code PODCAST15, that'll save you 15 percent on whatever thing or things you decide to pick up. Yeah, if you want to check out the shop on its own website whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. Our goal is to connect and educate, entertain traditional martial artists around the world no matter what style you are in. So, that's why you're going to find every episode we've ever done. At that website you can find them all over the place. We don't put anything behind a paywall and at the website you're going to find links and transcripts and photos and videos of all kinds of cool stuff. It's all to support you with the traditional martial artist. If you want to help us out, you can make a purchase. You can also share an episode; you could leave a review somewhere. You could tell friends about what's going on. Follow our social media we're at whistlekick or you could support the page on patreon.com/whistlekick as little as 2 Bucks a month. You can show your appreciation. The more you throw our way, the more exclusive content. Yes, I mean the exclusive content we're going to give it back to you whether it's a draft of programs or books or behind the scenes on the show. The only place you're ever going to find out what upcoming episodes we have is through patreon. Consider that if you value what we do. Andrew, what’s going on man,
Andrew Adams:
Not a lot. How are you today, Jeremy?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm good. Thank you.
Andrew Adams:
Excellent.
Jeremy Lesniak:
This is a spicy topic.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, yeah. You said potentially ruffle some feathers. All right. I think we will ruffle less feathers than you think.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I like ruffling feathers.
Andrew Adams:
I know you did.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It means people are thinking and engaging. Yeah, in themselves and in deep thought. Andrew Adams:
Which is good.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think it's important. When I think about the goals of the show, it's not for me to say “oh, this is what you need to think.” I think I've been pretty clear about that over the years. I never just want to just smash knowledge into people's brains. I want them to hear what we say. And then consider it. If that doesn't change anybody's mind that's totally fine as long as you're willing to have your mind open to being changed.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, absolutely. And this topic came to us. I didn't come up with this topic myself; this was actually brought to us. Which is also something I want to throw out there like we love that. I personally love it when someone else says “Here's an idea. Maybe, you guys want to discuss this.” And maybe the answer is “well, thank you.”. Yeah, we might, we might not but this particular topic came in. And it stems from this person who we all both know. Everybody listening is…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Both of us?
Andrew Adams:
Both of us. And everyone if you'd listen to the show for any point in time...
Jeremy Lesniak:
Everybody is listening.
Andrew Adams:
You have heard of or know of the infamous Leslie who helps us with our schedule.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't know if she wants to be infamous but she's definitely critical.
Andrew Adams:
She's not just infamous. She's like is there.
Jeremy Lesniak:
She is so much more. For those of you, who may be new to the show. If you're hearing Leslie’s name for the first time, she's behind the scenes as a producer on the show. And she does a phenomenal job. Really appreciate all the work that she does.
Andrew Adams:
And is a great person.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, a great person and martial artist. I mean she's a good friend. I really, really value it. It's nice when you get to work with our friends.
Andrew Adams:
Absolutely. Like what we're doing tonight. So, she...
Jeremy Lesniak:
What’s her question?
Andrew Adams:
So, she had been watching the newest season of Cobra Kai. And Jeremy, I'm assuming you have seen.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I have watched the entirety of season 3.
Andrew Adams:
Okay, as have I and for any listeners out there, we're not going to switch or will get into any spoilers at all but there are some things that the students of martial arts within this show do that are not good. Shall we say... And so, her first thought was should their instructors be responsible for the bad things that the students are doing? And that's the premise of our discussion today.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, and you know the thing I want people to know and if you're watching, you're wondering why am looking down, I'm looking up on my phone. It's one of the things that is a little different with the video versus audio where we get to edit or you don't see my face. We had Jon Hurwitz who was the head writer kind of the spearhead behind copper highland for episode 514. I was getting that number so I can put in my notes. And I don't want anyone to think of that. As we talk about the subject that we are seeing. Anything really negative about the show because 1 of the things I like is actions speak for you. I don't think there's anything wrong in pointing out either flaws in a creative subject which is not what we're doing. We're talking about the fictional aspects of the story and if they were real. Here are some things that we would feel strongly or moderately about in the conduct of the characters who would then be of course the real people. Things and beings are flawed. Characters are flawed. So, what we're really going to be talking about is the characters and some of their conduct as if they were real people.
Andrew Adams:
Well, and I don't know that. We could even do this entire conversation and never mentioned Cobra Kai from here for now because my thought wasn’t... We're going to dissect what the specific students in the show did. Though we could do that. It's more of just a general thought. Should I be responsible for something one of my students goes out and does?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yes, and there is such a can of worms there and I think that if we're going to start, we've got to do what we have been doing. For the last few times, we've done this and started to cut things off and look at them in segments because there are examples that we can use and some of them are more extreme than others. Yeah, so let's start with what I can think of as the most extreme example. Someone comes to a single class, you teach them how to punch, how to make a fist, how to throw a front kick, they go out and they punch somebody in the face and you know that person was never planning on coming back to a second class. Are you responsible as an instructor?
Andrew Adams:
Well, it sort of tells me that as a first-time student in class, I want you to go out and punch that person in the face. I would say no.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I would agree, I think. Ultimately, we are all responsible for our own actions. And that's where I'm going to come to draw a hard box around that statement. If I do something, I am responsible for that action but it does not mean I'm the only one responsible. It does not mean that outside influence is irrelevant because it is. Here’s another extreme example. If I have a 3-year-old who is looking to me for input in martial arts or otherwise and I give them a stick and tell them to go hit another 3-year-old, they don't have the judgment to determine that's not a good idea. That 3-year-old is.responsible but I'd say I'm more responsible in that case because my influence over them is probably greater than their own influence over themselves at that age.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, absolutely. It's just so much running through. There's a lot of context that would go into this type of thing and you know one of the biggest things for me is how much does the instructor know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What do you mean by know?
Andrew Adams:
If I'm a martial arts instructor which I mean I am but I'm not. I don't own my own school so I don't have my own students. So, everything I say here, it's hypothetical. But I have a class whether this person comes in for their first class, they've been with me for 6 months or a year. If they come into the dojo and I have no idea of what they are doing out on the street. Here, let's say, this particular student has been going out and vandalizing property or specifically using their martial arts training to beat people up but I don't know anything about it. Am I responsible for what this student does? I think in the first initial moment, I would say no. Now the minute that I find out that they're doing this. And I continue to instruct them then I think I'm [00:10:13-00:10-14].
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right. What we think about... No little bits of this stuff and honestly this probably comes from watching Law and Order. More than anything else but when you talk about crime on that show, they talk about means motive and opportunity. And I think we could apply that same sort of metric here. If we think about someone responsible, so many crimes are too strong a word. But did something take place that was wrong or if we're passing a judgement on this? I mean that's what a crime is. We're deeming that something is judged to be incorrect. The values of society are what call the judge. Sitting up on that big chair, right? Motive and opportunity mean the student has come in and you have the ability to influence them. Motive, you have a desire to leave them in a certain direction. An opportunity, they are willing to listen to you. And maybe you could flip. Means an opportunity pending on how you look at it but I think those are really the 3 pieces. Yeah, do I have access to the students? Are they willing to listen to what I tell them? And am I trying to lead them in a direction? Because you could teach martial arts strictly from the mechanical perspective. I don't know in the dozens but it could be done. It's just here how you punch; here's how you cook I'm not going to give you any context on when to use that. So, there's a motive, right? If someone comes in and you know, let's go back to that first example. They come on day one and I tell them “here's how you punch and kick”. I don't tell them don't punch and kick people that are trying to harm you and they go often punching 2 people who are trying to harm them. My level, my degree of responsibility I think in society is probably minimal to 0 but if I'm a decent instructor, if I care, I probably feel terrible.
Andrew Adams:
Sure, sure. Absolutely. I would agree you would feel, you'd be horrible as what I'd. But would... Is that really would one realistically consider that my fault or your fault? I think the answer would be...
Jeremy Lesniak:
I am probably not. But because of that potential scenario and the realization of, far as I know, every martial arts instructor on the planet, they recognize what you're teaching, has a combative element. Whether it'll actually, you know, some hardcore self-defense school or I mean Taichi. I would imagine. Every instructor understands that there is a martial aspect to it. It's a martial art and they understand. Okay, there are some disclaimer type things that I've got to get out of the way. One of them is you don't use this unless you need to use it now. Of course, different schools, different instructors are going to take that different directions. I think about it for the sake of our discussion. We have to draw some line in the sand. Somewhere anything in this case. It's that generic disclaimer. Yeah, I have heard in those words at multiple schools. You do not use what we teach you unless you need it to protect yourself or someone else.
Andrew Adams:
Yep, and sometimes it's in the registration form you may fill out for the school. Yeah, like you're agreeing to only use this if you're absolutely necessary.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yep, yep, yep. So, the situation that we are talking about is someone using... Well, we've got a split here. You brought up the example of vandalism. I don't think there's a lot of martial arts going on in vandalism. I mean I could kick through a window but...
Andrew Adams:
Destroying property.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't know how much that matters. For the sake of argument, I think we need you to exclude for time's sake.
Andrew Adams:
Sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Non-combative conduct.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, I would agree.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because it's such a huge can of worms. We talk on the show. I think everyone knows my feelings. I'm fairly certain you're on the same page. I and Andrew... I believe martial artists are better people. I believe further martial arts training makes people better. So, if we look at it from that aspect then one could make an argument that poor social conduct outside of combat aspects of defense is still relevant in the development of the martial arts student. But, it's so new. We're not going there today.
Andrew Adams:
Sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We're going to limit our conversations strictly to fighting. Let's call it fighting.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because that's what happens in Cobra Kai. That's what happens when we're talking. If it was as it needed to be. It would be self-defense.
Andrew Adams:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But we're talking about fighting. So, when I reframe this subject to you when I say you know for sure a martial arts instructor will be responsible if your students go out and get into fights. There is a different tone. What's your initial response here?
Andrew Adams:
Again, I have to go back to do what I know about it. If I don't know, if I have no idea that my students are going outside and beating up people. How could I possibly be held culpable for that? Now, again. I'II go to tell my students to go mess with other people, right. You know maybe whether it's in school and bullying them or out on the street. If I tell my students to go beat someone up, well then yes absolutely. I think I should be held responsible for that but if I have 0 idea, is that my fault? I would make the argument, no.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I agree. Who gets to determine then what is self-defense? You know this episode will come out after the 2 episodes that we've done on appropriate use of force.
Andrew Adams:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know we have the internal discussion with us and then we had a follow up episode with sergeant Hamilton where we unpacked a little bit more from the legal side. So, when in this case, who gets to decide? In theory, the only relevant person in the conversation that was there is the student, correct? Do we trust the student to make the determination? And I'm going to see what we have to do because otherwise we should be teaching them.
Andrew Adams:
Exactly. Yep, absolutely. I think the minute that I find out that my student is out there beating people up and getting into fights, I think from there now I become responsible. It's going forward. So, if that student comes back to the dojo or dojang or my training facility and I continue to teach someone who I know is intentionally going outside and beating people up, I feel like I am responsible and that is on me. That violence has it. I am now a part. I would agree, I would agree.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Maybe not legally responsible but you are responsible if you continue to teach them. In such a way that there is a reasonable belief that they will continue those actions.
Andrew Adams:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
This is why so many martial arts schools and to be honest all of them that I've ever participated in, I'm aware of, had the one strike policy. If we learn that you are using what we teach you in a way that it is inappropriate and it is deemed to be obviously inappropriate you will be expelled. Because that threat has to be there. I think not just for fear of the student. You know, because there's a consequence but I think also for the culture. I think the culture that students have to understand and if we think about Cobra Kai, neither none of the schools that are discussed bring that up at all that I recall.
Andrew Adams:
No, I don't I don't believe so either and there's some pretty serious violence between the 2 schools' students that happens within the show. And you can't make the argument that at least the cobra kai students, their instructor absolutely knew what was going on and you could make the argument I would have to go back through and watch season 2 again because it has been a while. But I don't believe that Daniel had the knowledge that his students were, you can correct me if I'm wrong and if you’re listening, if you're like “you're wrong”, tell me, that's okay. I believe Daniel was kept in the dark about the violence that was happening with the students. You know, his daughter Samantha,
Jeremy Lesniak:
Season 2. Yeah, if I recall.
Andrew Adams:
He did not realize what was going on through season two. And so, you can make the argument he shouldn't be held responsible. But you know, moving forward you have to watch season 3 to find out what happened, right?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now, so far, we've only talked about the initiation of the fight, who is starting it versus who is defending themselves, But I think we also have to consider, here's the phrase again: the appropriate use of force. And was there an opportunity similar to extracting oneself? If you pick a fight with me and I break your arm and then I break your other arm. It's probably unnecessary.
Andrew Adams:
I would agree but that I think that goes I think that's a different topic because we're discussing if my student does that, if you get into a fight with my student, you start the fight and my student breaks both of your arms. Am I as the teacher is responsible? That's the question.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think those are along the same line. I do.
Andrew Adams:
Really? Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because think of what has to happen for that break down to occur. Not only do I have to not understand or not take to heart the concept that the use of what I learned in my training is for my own defense. And only for my own difference, right? We've talked about this and honestly goes back before we did that other episode about this, before it's come up a number of times over the years that we've been doing this show, this idea. The cliche is if I get the opportunity to run away. I need to shoo it, right? That is safely right away.
Andrew Adams:
Yep, I would agree.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think it's all along the same lines if I have a student and that student, if somebody picks a fight with them and my student goes way overboard, I mean let’s say did the most extreme, kills the other person unnecessarily and am I responsible? I'm going to say yes.
Andrew Adams:
That's interesting.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because I gave that student skill that they did not have. So, we're looking for the maturity to properly utilize.
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, and there's so many nuances within there. Which we discussed at length with sergeant Hamilton about what would have been appropriate. So, many different factors that would have to be determined as to whether it was appropriate or not. It's difficult. It's difficult for me to say definitively. Yes, it would be my fault. Because there's just so many variables.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure. I get that where I'm coming from. I'm looking at this whole situation. My responsibility as an instructor and I like you. I do not have a formal school. I do not have students of my own. I have and this was something that weighed on my mind. And I also, you know, still teach periodically to schools I am part of. As well as you know schools are not part of. And I am hyper aware that if I teach something that has a violent combative element to it, I need to be aware of the context. I am not going to teach ideologists and I don't know, clawing its throats to 4-year-old.
Andrew Adams:
Sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There's an extreme example because it's a little easier to see. I need to set the tone. If I'm teaching something that is violent, when is it being used? Why is it being used? What are the things you're watching out for? You know, one of my fundamental beliefs is that if you get to the point where violence has occurred. There is a 99 percent chance that you've done something wrong leading up to it.
Andrew Adams:
I would agree.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You could have, you should have, you might have, right? All these hypotheticals. That's a whole different subject that we might tackle another time. What if I need an instructor...? Here, I think it is the best test. If you are an instructor and even if you're not a martial arts instructor, if you're a parent. Did you hear about your student, your child, someone that you have responsibility over, responsibility for their upbringing whether it's in life or in the martial arts and you hear about them having done something and you feel guilty? I think that's the clearest indication because we can bat once around. We can talk about that and we can give 1000 examples and you could come up with 10000 more.
Andrew Adams:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But if that guilt comes through. I think you were definitively responsible. What do you think?
Andrew Adams:
Yeah, I would agree because that guilt has to come from somewhere. You know it doesn't just randomly show up.
Jeremy Lesniak:
No, that doesn't necessarily mean that if you don't feel guilty that you haven't done something yet.
Andrew Adams:
That's true, it doesn't go the other way.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But I think the vast majority of martial arts instructors are good people who want to do the right thing and they want their students to do the right thing and they understand what we're saying and they agree. I mean there's a reason that it's a cliche because most people subscribe to it. Here's another place for new ones. There are some dirt bags out there. Some dirt bags achieve ranking open schools. And they teach other people to be their bags and that's literally the story that we're talking about within Cobra Kai. Dirtbags. Teach your bags to become dirtbag instructors. And teach further dirtbag students. And yes, some of this stuff starts to get walked back, some of it starts to get analyzed. In order for the philosophical discussions to take place there needed to be this conflict. We probably would be doing this episode without season 3 of Cobra Kai.
Andrew Adams
Yeah, that's true.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right. And so, I think it leads to an important philosophical discussion and my hope is that if you are a school owner and you haven't sat down with your students recently, and had a good long talk about appropriate force and what self-defense means to you and what your responsibilities as students of the school are, I think you should.
Andrew Adams
I would agree.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think it's something that should probably happen on an annual basis. I think those conversations are critical. We get so bogged down in the physical stuff that we miss opportunities to have conversations that speak to the why and help people understand their role as a martial artist, as students in a school.
Andrew Adams:
I'm a firm believer that martial arts schools should not be 100 percent just learning how to kick and punch. I think there needs to be some level of discussion and sometimes... I remember in high school sitting down on a Saturday class for an hour and a half and never getting up off my butt for an hour and a half. And the instructor just did... I don't want to say lecturing because there was some back and forth but like just talking sometimes about history. Which we have gone out like to talk about right on this podcast. Sometimes it’s about history and culture, sometimes it was about self-defense. And things of that nature. And I think that's important. I don't mean every single class but a few times a year, I think it's appropriate.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I completely agree. This is where I see some schools especially in children's classes having conversations and mat chats or you know, whatever phrase they're using for. I think that's great. You know, to have a conversation periodically to unpack a certain subject to make sure people hear it because especially if you're younger. You don't need to hear something the first time, where you don't really get something the first time. You hear there's better ways. You have to hear something repeatedly. You've got small kids. telling them not to do something one time. It doesn’t really have any effect. Right? You've got to tell them over and over and sometimes over and over again in the same sentence.
Andrew Adams:
Yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, if you're going to share that information. You've got to have a reasonable belief that those students are not going to abuse that knowledge. And let's go to an extreme example of a gun. You won’t give somebody a gun unless you think they can responsibly own and operate the gun.
Andrew Adams:
Yes. Good point.
Jeremy Lesniak:
My kicking is not nearly as extreme as a gun. It takes nearly, it takes far more work to cause harm then with the gun. But the concept is still the same.
Andrew Adams:
Yep, yep.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If you wouldn't give your 5-year-old a gun and you’d give your 5-year-old a knife, you probably shouldn't be teaching your 5-year-old. I guess I would use groin grabs, another really extreme martial arts technique.
Andrew Adams:
Yep, exactly.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Notice I said probably. I'm not saying definitively because of the nuance. Yep, we just rename this the nuance podcast.
Andrew Adams:
The open clear communication to nuance podcast.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I like it. I like it so the question at this point is have we missed anything?
Andrew Adams:
I think the only thing to continue to consider is if I, as the instructor, know bad stuff happening and I continue to let it happen, that's the thing,
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let’s hit that point. You’ve brought out a couple times and I feel like I've steered the conversation away. So, let's say, you're the instructor and I'm a student and you get when... I've been training for let's say a few years. I am some kind of middle to upper colored belt rank. You know something in the blue, green, red, brown something in there. I spent enough time training and I should know better. You have indicated to me on multiple occasions and as part of the group, you don't do this unless you need to. Right. I have heard it; you have a reasonable expectation that I know. I should not be causing harm with what I'm doing. And I go off and let's say somebody, let's say, I'm a high school age kid. And I am getting clearly verbal abuse from another kid. Okay, you know we're both 16/17 and you know its constant name calling. You know, picking on me kind of a thing. And one day, I don't just pop him in the face but I go to account. I take my frustration and anger out on him. And it is very clear that I was the aggressor and went pretty far with it. So, the situation now can go. Now, back to you.
Andrew Adams:
Okay, in this type of situation, I think it would be important for the instructor to have a good open discussion with you. So, if you were my student, I would sit down and have a discussion with you. And I would obviously because you're 16. I would involve your parents. And I would have discussions on whether we should consider getting some third party outside help whether it's a psychologist or psychiatrist to talk about what you're going through. I'm clear you've been bullied but I need to make sure that you… I have to have a reasonable assumption that this isn't going to happen again. If I'm going to continue to keep you as a student. My first inclination would be to not have you as a student unless you could be proved to me that this was a one-time thing. And you can learn how to get past or find other ways which I would help you with find other ways to work out that frustration that you had with this particular bully.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now, here's the question because I already have that information. You've taught me. I know how to punch and kick. I am reasonably competent and now I have the satisfaction because I remember what it was like to be 16/17 getting picked on. I think even if I felt on some level was wrong. There would be some satisfaction in stopping this bully. They're still kids. I'm thinking of someone from high school. You know what. I wouldn't mind taking a couple shots on. You know I'm well past high school age but that's still there. If you cut me loose. Now, there's no guidance. And I still have that skill. So, are you... is the cutting loose purely for me responsibility aspect.? Or you might still feel guilty as we already said has some indication of responsibility. If I go off and do it again because now there doesn't seem to be any consequence. No tie, no supervision with regard to that physical skill set.
Andrew Adams:
Well, again. That's why I would have had a sit-down discussion with you to determine where you were at. And is this something that we can work through. I would rather keep you as a student not for the financial reasons but for the reasons you just mentioned like if you do leave and go off and continue to hurt people, I would feel guilty because I'm the one that gave you that ability to do that. So, I would rather keep you and continue to teach you and be an instructor and a coach-mentor you know, to help guide you through that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I'm with you. I think this is one of those we're trying to come up with a one size fits all. That is just not going to happen. The specifics of the situation, the students, their home life, how long they've been training, etc. I think it's all their mental state, I think matters so much. We could come up with examples. Where throwing the kid out is the best choice or keeping the kid in is the best choice to “hey, you and I are going to have a hard sparring match and I'm going to let you take some of your frustration out on me”. Andrew Adams:
Yeah, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because I can take it.
Andrew Adams:
I think the takeaway listeners should have from this episode is that, if you're not having discussions with your students about this type of thing you should be.
Jeremy Lesniak:
The only way to head this off is through conversation. And if you limit that conversation to a few words here, there. Assuming that you agree with us that this is an important lesson. Think of the other important lessons you teach in martial arts. You don't teach them off handedly once in a while. If learning how to punch is critical, you spend time teaching how to punch. If learning how to get out of a choke. It's part of your self-defense curriculum is important. You don't just do it once a year, you spend time. You drill it. You make sure your students know it. This is the same thing.
Andrew Adams:
I would agree.
Jeremy Lesniak:
If you want your students to be responsible with the material that you give them and make sure that they use it in the way that you deem most appropriate, you need to have that conversation with them not just once but frequently.
Andrew Adams:
Agreed.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Anything else we should add?
Andrew Adams:
Nope. I think that was good.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right? This is great. You know, one of the things I like is that this one came from Leslie. I think some of the last topic conversations we've had have come from listeners. So, if listeners, you've got stuff for viewers. As you do. If you've got questions or subjects that you want us to unpack, let us know. Maybe the 2 of us will tackle it, maybe we'll bring a guest on to unpack it. You know, if it's something that requires an expertise that Andrew and I don't have…
Andrew Adams:
Because I'm an expert in nothing.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm an expert in what I don't know. Actually, I don't even think I am that. I don't know what I don't know. That’s what happened, you get a couple nerds talking. Anyway, we do want to hear your topic suggestions, your questions so go ahead, write in jeremy@whistlekick.com. I’ll share with Andrew. We'll go from there. The other things that you might want to be aware of, you can find us on social media we’re at whistlekick everywhere and that includes YouTube, our Facebook and Instagram and all that. Right? You can support us by making purchases, patreon or sharing episodes, telling friends, saying hi to people to wearing whistlekick stuff, you know all that is good. And we thank you. We appreciate you because as I used to say, without listeners I would just be a crazy guy talking to himself but I think it's changed a little bit. So, in this case without interviewers, I would just be hanging out, chatting about martial arts with a friend which sounds far less consequential. So, I don't think I'm going to use that again because nobody's going to give me any sympathy over that one. All right. Let's close it out, Andrew. Until next time.
Jeremy Lesniak and Andrew Adams:
Train hard, smile and have a great day.