Episode 562 - Mr. Chen Tang
Mr. Chen Tang is a martial artist and an actor who stars in Bruce Lee's Warrior and Disney's live-action Mulan.
I told Shannon Lee to her face, seeing your father (Bruce Lee) made me, for the first time, in America be proud to be Asian
Mr. Chen Tang - Episode 562
Bruce Lee is an inspiration to all of us but Mr. Chen Tang admitted that Lee is his inspiration to be a prouder Asian in America. Starring in the live-action Mulan and the series Warrior, Mr. Chen Tang wouldn't have made it into these Hollywood films if it's not for his training with Wushu and Kung Fu. In this episode, Mr. Chen Tang tells why he is passionate about acting and his present and future projects. Listen to learn more!
Show Notes
In this episode, we mentioned Sherman Augustus (Badlands).
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What's going on everybody! Welcome! This is whistlekick martial arts radio episode 562. Today's guest, Mr. Chen Tang. I'm Jeremy Lesniak. I'm your host on the show and the founder was okay. I love martial arts and that's why everything we do here at whistlekick is in support of the traditional martial arts. What does that mean? Well if you want to know what that means go to whistlekick.com. Poke around; see all the things that we're working on all the projects and the products. Yes, there's a store there. We sell some stuff it helps cover some of the expenses, that's kind of an important thing of a sustainable business or at least try to. And if you see something over there that you like if you want to make a purchase use the code podcast 15 saves you 15% off, saves you 15% off. That's probably not the best language but we're gonna roll with it, it'll save you 15%.There we go. But if you want to check out the show whistlekick martial arts radio gets its own website whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, super creative. I do all the naming if you can't tell which bring you two shows a week and the goal of the show is to connect and educate and entertain you the traditional martial artists of the world. If you want to show your appreciation, of course you can make a purchase, like I said, or you could share this episode or follow us on social media or check out a book on Amazon or leave a review or support the Patreon patreon.com/whistlekick, throw us a couple bucks a month. We'll throw you some exclusive content. Throw us a few more dollars, we're gonna give you access to more. We release exclusive audio, video, books, all kinds of stuff over there so check it out. Consider helping us. Today's guest is a name that you may recognize. He has been involved in some projects that are being incredibly well received and in fact, as we were talking today. Two of the projects that he's been involved in has been nominated for some pretty substantial awards and in fact, as I was talking with somebody on his team, just before the show. He's the only person in common between the two. Now it's true. He was willing to come on the show to promote his projects that I'm not going to name because I want to let that unfold organically. But the conversation we had was anything but a typical media appearance. We had a great conversation. And, to be frank, we talked for a good 20 minutes after we closed the show. This man is a good man, an exemplary martial artist and the type of person that I was just happy to get to know better. Now one bit of caution. We're not editing the language in this episode, not because it's particularly filthy, or because there are powerful stories that require using foul language, but because it just didn't feel right. And that might sound odd, as I said in the intro but I've got a feeling, as we roll through, you'll see what I'm talking about. In this conversation we talk about everything from philosophy and acting and of course, martial arts to well, instead of spoiling it all, I'll just let it happen for you. So, here we go with my conversation with Chen Tang.
Chen Tang:
Cool. All right, now we can talk shit. All about 03:20.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, I should probably tell you and it may not be the first time I guess that she was your mom just the way she was talking about you. When she was talking about the awards, it was just it was so she was so proud.
Chen Tang:
Yeah, she's like, she's sort of like I joke that she's like my LA mom. She's like a cool aunt, you know like not like 03:45. She's just do what she can do and you know you're like family. You know we've been together for now. Gosh, six years now, you know, and she, her background is actually she has over 20 years of experience doing like high end concerts, like MGM Caesars Palace stuff like that to like bring over like long the home and you know like J Child and stuff over to the States, and basically just do like cross Asia, you know, and concerts, and she just was the producer for that for like 20 plus years, and now she ended and recently she was like you know what I love film and all my friends are in film; I am going to basically help you manage your agent stuff, because it's a very different world. For, we need a team that, because I'm Chinese so like we, you know I'm cross country. So, she like it basically she's only, she has, you know, basically helps manage the career for like three or four clients and fortunate to be able to say like, to have her, clients or like they have like multiple Emmys and then I had her other client who's my age is in Taiwan and China right now. He's starting this Netflix show right now, that's 05:11
Jeremy Lesniak:
She's the common denominator. She should be getting the award.
Chen Tang:
Yeah, she if it wasn't for her she's like she just kills. I mean, It's like the best, the best people that you could ever work with, you know, and...
Jeremy Lesniak:
How did you get connected with her?
Chen Tang:
Um, so the story goes that you know this was back when she was still doing like concerts and every now and then they just need like hosts like a bilingual host. So she found me through her cousin who's a casting director in New York, and I know her cousin, and he recommended me to her and then like it just sort of blossomed from there you know it wasn't a planned thing it was just like when I first met her, I thought it was just gonna be like, Oh yeah, nice to meet you, you know, just do this thing for you and. And then I was like, Oh, I actually need this. So, yeah, it's been it's been great.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Man, that's awesome. That's awesome so cool that you found her well if it's okay with you. I kind of want to, you know, we'll go back and clip a little bit but I kind of want to keep that stuff that we just talked about in.
Chen Tang:
Yeah. Please. You know...
Jeremy Lesniak:
Good with that, we can just keep rolling because, you know...
Chen Tang:
You want me to stop my video, by the way, just so that there's
Jeremy Lesniak:
Ideally, I mean we're gonna suppress that later.
Chen Tang:
I got ugly face out of my out of my screen, cool.
Jeremy Lesniak:
They don't generally give awards to ugly people.
Chen Tang:
I don’t know. I think all the best actors like are interesting looking. So I'm always thinking like, well I think I'm a character actor. I don't got what it takes to be the good looking like heartthrob, but I got the acting. You know, so...
Jeremy Lesniak:
What about me I'm over here running a podcast? What does that say? 500 and some episodes deep on an audio only show.
Chen Tang:
Yeah. I think he's got a wonderful voice that's what it is.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Thank you. It takes a lot of practices as anything does is, as you know, but let's dig into it, you know, and normally we do this stuff kind of pre-show so I'm just gonna roll into it the audience is going to get to hear some old I'm going to tell you for the first time honestly in five and a half years.
Chen Tang:
Yup.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We have a saying on the show that the best stuffs on the edges. So don't be afraid to wander. Don't be afraid of tangents. I'll pull you back if you get too far out there.
Chen Tang:
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But really, I, you know, I'm especially aware when we have someone on who's done a bunch of media that you get the same questions over and over again. And I don't like asking the same questions.
Chen Tang:
Oh yeah, this is gonna be a cool interview then because there's some sons there's like, I think it was like Groundhog Day for a while though last few months, you know, in a good way. Yeah, but still…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right. And a lot of that is that, you know, we're talking about martial arts content and a lot of the people interviewing him and interviewing you. I'm sure aren't martial artists, they don't have the nuance, they don't train. They don't know.
Chen Tang:
That's right, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
They don't know the community, the industry, you know, I've been pretty lucky with some of the folks that I've had the chance to talk to and been approached, you know, we've done, we've been part of the media tour for a number of shows as they've rolled out you know but we got to do some stuff for Badlands. We got to do some, you know, HBO reached out and offered Shannon Lee to come on the show, or even launched yeah so I'd like to say that we're doing something right.
Chen Tang:
Yeah, you know when you when you have a real passion and it comes out and like. you know, there's some things that, you know, people ask me about obviously like warrior they did a lot of people leaving feeling low on love but a lot of people really like a 08:53 by the action scenes, and I'm like, you know, there's so much that goes into it. And I could explain it all day to somebody who doesn't really know like anything about stunts or martial arts, but it wouldn't quite make any sense, you know, so they're just like they see the whole product. We can get into like detail stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak:
They assume that, you know, a five minute action scene maybe that takes, oh okay, you know so they bring people out and they rehearse it a couple times you know like they would lines, and then you roll, and you know maybe you get it the third or fourth time and you know, there's an hour and you take a break, and they don't really realize how deep and how long, how many days or weeks a five minute scene can take.
Chen Tang:
Yeah, exactly.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When did you get started in instant work? Let's talk about the physical side because it sounds like that's something that interests, the way you talked about it you're passionate about deep. What was your first stop? Let me ask you that. What was the first thing you did on film?
Chen Tang:
You want to you, would you believe that no I cannot sit here with a straight face and say like, Oh my gosh, I can't sit here and have worked with these like world class people and say like, I am anywhere near like a stunt person or a martial artist like you know I have some experience in martial arts I grew up like doing about seven years of Wushu Kung Fu, you know, here and there right and I've always been an active dude, but these people have dedicated their entire lives to it, and people, you know, Brett Chan and Johnny Yang on the stump and their stunt team and all the wonderful stunt people that we got to work with. And then also in, you know, Mulan as well. But let me just start off this interview by saying, I am a complete novice when it comes to this stuff. I really am. And they basically carried me and taught me so much, and basically made me look good. Okay. And so, by being associated with like by being sort of like near them. I have, you know, people have assumed that like oh my gosh like you know you must be a macho, you must be like a stunt. It's like group to experience dude, which I am not. I am just an actor that moves well that 11:17 can really that has some martial arts background and, you know, and I'm not afraid to get into it. So let's just start with that let's get that out of the way. All right, and then I'm being very real, you know. So, but so the answer to your question, actually believe it or not, you know, I would say the first real stunt sequence, I've done on any kind of like television or film was actually believe it or not it was Mulan. Mulan was my first like real thing where we get extensive stunts.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Really.
Chen Tang:
Yeah, absolutely. You know I did from, you know, like here and there, you know, you do some stuff here and there, like if you get, got to get punched on camera, you've got to like go through things on camera, but I can't count that as like you know we actually were in the stunt gym rehearsing and you know they do with the previous and all these things right and you, you learn it. So Mulan was definitely, it was the first one, and I got quite lucky to work with just world class people like that for my first experience.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's got to be powerful and is it something you'd been looked forward to do? To doing or was it something that maybe because you're doing a really good job of articulating this this line and we've had a number of stunt performers on the show and we've had actors on the show. And I might be getting the episode wrong but I think it was 12:44 I don't know if you know him he was on Badlands. And we had a pretty good conversation again from my memory serving, talking about the difference between an actor who does stunts and a stuntman who does acting. And it sounds like you've clearly defined who you are, you're an actor who's doing some stunt work. Because it's something that you said hey, maybe someday I'll get to work in that way.
Chen Tang:
I think, well you know, when I learned this acting thing, you know, it was always a I don't know why it ended up that way I was just always just like I'm enamored with my craft just as you know stunt people and martial artists are enamored with their craft. But always my focus and always been my goal, you know what I'm an actor and the actor, my actual worldview is I will do whatever it is to be in the life of this character, and you know if I'm playing a soldier, soldiers need to learn how to fight. Soldiers need to learn how to you know, 13:49 you know, learn tactics and all these things that is something that this person would know. And you know, for someone like 14:01 on warrior it’s like, I'm a fighter, you know, this is what I do. It's part of my life, you cannot separate the two. So that's what I always go through, you know, whenever I'm picking up any kind of like stunt work. I was really actually pretty nervous about it, to be honest, when I first started with Mulan because it was so new, and there was a lot. I mean, like, even you know you're in like 10 kilo armor. I mean it's a lot to learn. You know, and for me. I was just like, oh wow okay so I'm gonna learn this and however I feel about I'm not putting in character maybe my character in Mulan was like, Oh, well I'm really nervous about how to learn how to use this sword, you know, I might cut myself right and all these things. So it's a wonderful layer that I don't think that I separate very much from the life of the character. I don't just layer it on. In other words, does that make sense?
Jeremy Lesniak:
It does, that anxiety that you had setting and doing that stunt work? I'm guessing that doesn't pop up for you often.
Chen Tang:
That anxiety pops up for me more often than I would like to admit.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Really.
Chen Tang:
Yeah, because the thing is, you know with the thing with, you know, you're doing a scene and as an actor, it's like, okay, you are feeling these things emotionally but when you do an action scene. If you do a stunt thing, you will feel it physically. Does that make sense?
Jeremy Lesniak:
It does, yeah.
Chen Tang:
So, one of the things I remember being on warrior. And I remember doing one of our fight scenes. And I remember Brett Chan are amazing stunt coordinators, and he was just like, you know, I was doing this move where it was like a sort of a flying knee into somebody, it was a sort of a quite a long jump, I have to really go for it, you know, and the guy's got a pad and everything you find that he's just pulled me aside he was like, Chen, you got to kick them. Like literally have I meant, you know, you can the intentions got to be there but you got to make contact. You can't be afraid of it and I realized that I was like, yeah, you got to commit and follow through because of course, you know, you don't want to like, you know, he's like, yeah, of course, i get it, you don't want to hurt him but this is their job and, you know, because you do not want to hurt him because you have a good heart. These people will have to do it again and again because you didn't, you know, and then they're gonna get tired and then they could get hurt. So you really got to follow through and to go there and put another like, you know, body onto another human being. I think all martial arts is sort of like that that whole thing, like a punch in that you got to follow through, you got to go through the guide. And that thing took a little, it didn't take a long time for me to kind of get my head around but it really did, that was one of the big things at first because we're just not used to doing it. You know what I'm saying.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. It sounds a lot like the way I would imagine acting, the way you described having to wrap your mind around, throwing that kick and you have to commit. You have to put yourself into it. You have to make it real. That's how I would imagine acting to be.
Chen Tang:
Absolutely, you know, doing stunt work taught me so much about that it too because, you know, we, as you know, the actors like it's an imaginary reality but if you're doing it right and you really in it, like you really commit and go through with it. Those feelings are real. So like, you get hit and you take hits and you get hits, and that's one of those things. There's a lot of crossover. It really is.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm sure. You mentioned Wushu, and Wushu as an art, anybody knows Wushu knows it's geared for presentation, for competition. And there's a solid, I would call it an element of acting within it in the way that it's presented.
Chen Tang:
That's right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Did that fall in? I mean did the Wushu were able to draw on some of that experience as you started working this stunt stuff?
Chen Tang:
Oh yeah, absolutely because, you know, I've learned Wushu, as well as, like the actual grappling aspect of it. So as well, like Southern Kung Fu, which is actually, it's quite, you know, it doesn't look that great but it's quite effective. You know, it's very low, it's very centered very grounded, lot of short explosive bursts kind of thing and I always gravitated towards that. For the Wushu side, you know, I spend some time with a northern long kiss, but it's just never really took hold for me because I was never one of those guys that was like, Oh, you know what I'm gonna go into this competition to like show. I rather just be a new 19:32 and yeah does that make sense? And so, that actually, but when I when I wouldn't do the stunts I was like, oh this was actually extremely useful. It's only because like, you know, Brett was saying like can be very fast. You're quite fluidic, you know, with your movements and I was like, you know a lot of that has to come from like you know years of just doing that I think there's something about Wushu and Kung Fu in general is a very flowing, it's all about low and it just links the body in a really interesting way. So it really helped a lot with the stunts.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Nice. I was just saying if you slow down all martial arts enough. If you give people freeform movement and ask them to move really slowly it all looks like Kung Fu, because their mind starts to move fast enough that they can move their body in multiple ways simultaneously.
Chen Tang:
Yeah, I know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You know, which seems to be a hallmark of most of the Kung Fu styles that I've witnessed
Chen Tang:
Yeah and you know…
Jeremy Lesniak:
And a little bit under…
Chen Tang:
Looking back at like traditional Kung Fu, I'm talking about traditional real ass Kung Fu, you know, I think Kung Fu nowadays when it gets a sort of bad rap because of like it evolved into this sort of like, you know, it's been around forever and so like it's you know it's going to evolve into different branches and some of them is very presentational and artsy and whatnot and showy, but the way I always looked about it was and following Bruce Lee's example, you know, Kung Fu is like very, it was a combat art, you know, this evolve out of real thing, like people had to protect themselves and kill people, you know. So that right there has always been like I'm a bit of a, like a traditional hearted guy, you know, when I was when I look back onto those things it's like, all of this is expression of human movement and for a very specific reason and that kind of mindset was very prevalent in our show Warrior that because one of the things I really liked about our fight scenes on Warrior is not only did it tell a good story, but also like all of none of the movements were really just for sort of like, you know, show everything was sort of like 21:58 I'm talking about every little movement was intentional. And that was a big difference because I was like that, you know, there's a reason why I would move this way and that's what Brett said he's like there's a reason why like you know you would want to go here, not there and you want to make sure that you clock that person before you go, you know, just like, just like he has an intention, so that's one of the things I'm like, you know...
Jeremy Lesniak:
And you hit the nail on the head for me for what I love about that show is that in most martial arts, television, and cinema. There is a hard line between stories in the fights. And if you go back to you know the old stuff, the old Hong Kong films. You see that, you know, the story is just kind of an excuse to get to the next fight scene. Whereas in Warrior and in a good movie like to in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. The fight scenes are continuing to tell the story.
Chen Tang:
Correct, yeah, and all that credit goes to, again, back to Brett Chan and his team, but also to the writers, Jonathan Troper, our show runner, is himself a martial artist. And he has years of experience in martial arts. And he actually one of the things he said to me, when I first got on the show, he was like yeah I'd love to write all the. He writes it in, he writes, like if you read the script, it's like, you know, we'll change it a little bit maybe the previous stuff doesn't quite fit or work for the character or the dynamic, but he literally writes it in. He's like, you know, 23:37 does this thing on this thing. And for this reason, and you can tell why, you know, you fought through it all. So, so a lot of that was. It was such a blessing to have that. That level of specificity and detail. And it really shows on the show.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Does that as an actor, does that give you enough space to still find your spot and put your character forward if everything's written out that way?
Chen Tang:
Oh, very much, very much. For me, I actually am a big believer in the power of limitation power constraints, because when you constrain something you actually have a framework to kind of bounce off of if you just actually like if you just, it’s sort of like saying like, oh, you know what do you want to eat? You know, like you're here in LA. What do you want to eat? I'm like well tell me what you feel like how do you feel like, what kind of cuisine? You know it's almost like too much. So, actually when they give you that kind of framework, and by that point you're like, you're so dialed in with your character you know your life the way I if you know you've done your preparation. You really know how I see the world, you can actually use that sort of as creative juice, and like, well, why would I, you know, just to give you a concrete example. It was, I had decided that on the show is very circular. You know, I have a chain, you know, this is a distance 25:16 you know you can really take on multiple people at the time. But it's also like just the style that we had found me and Brett. We had found was just this sort of like a flowing kind of circular thing that was, you know, purposely designed to be very different from both Andrew Koji style, and, you know, Jason Tobin style and there was a reason for that. And by doing that, like we were like finding like a lot of this that ups like sort of like chokes and racking up attacks with that chain, and I was like you know that gives me such an interesting way of seeing the world as home because it's like, what would it be like to always think as a default to sort of move around things rather than just what happened directly. What does that give me as his life, you know like I can bring that into like almost every scene. Every acting scene, its things like that would talk about, and that, you know, me as the actor would be like, oh, you know what on this point and this in this moment, we maybe to sort of like get around him in this way. And it's not in the script. Does that make sense?
Jeremy Lesniak:
It does. In fact what you're saying reminds me of something that I've often said I'm, I love martial arts. I love every aspect of martial arts but I'm most passionate about forms. And I've found as I've progressed saying that the most individualization in forms, the difference between a great form, and a not so great form. It's the space between the movements. Anybody can throw that kick, anybody can throw that kick well. But what you do before and after that kick, and it's what I'm hearing you say about what you're bringing to the character, and the way you see your role reminds me a lot of that.
Chen Tang:
Yes, because it's your personal truth. You know, this is your personal expression. This movement because you know we're all built into different bodies right you know the human body is extremely dynamic, but in any space of time. We can only move how we move and how you move naturally sort of unique is a unique fingerprint to yourself. And so, you, you can use that as a starting point of where you want to go and that is, that's attention to detail of the individual is a big reason why Brett would say something like, you know, if you put a silhouette, all the characters in the show, you should be able to tell who they are just based on how they move that was his overriding tension. And I've never forgotten that I love that attention to detail is because it is really based on, you know, you call it the space between bones but yes, that's correct because how you choose to move and that next moment is unique to you. And I maybe I would approach it different, right. And that's what makes something like all that's your unique way of moving, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
As you're coming on ask this question. As your time spent doing this martial arts work on camera. Has that changed anything in the way you look at, say martial arts in general. You know, if you were to go back I don't know how much time you spent training I'm guessing you're really busy so probably not a ton. But if you stepped in and you did a couple of, you know, did an hour of Wushu training. Would it be different now than it had been?
Chen Tang:
Yeah, very much so. I think its number one, I would be a lot more intentional, I think, you know, because look the thing with forms sometimes is like you start to think of as like your own movement in individualistic, right, because you just do this. Let's say it like a, like a basic like Wushu form, you know, and you can see that sometimes like, you know, you start to get into that because you're rehearsing these moves again and again and again just to do this form but one of the things that doing well. Really also any if you actually go into like a fight, or a competition, or any kind of, especially a stunt work. You start to link that the two human beings are always in relation to human beings always. You're always moving because of another thing so it's a push and pull effect that I had really sort of gotten from doing the stunt work that sort of like really made it very visceral apparent to me, because it's like you're always in relation. And if you're doing it right, you know like, even with the forms. This movement is for a certain reason, but we and I'm guilty to that. I'm guilty of like forgetting that sometimes because you're by yourself. Right?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. Are you always this thoughtful? You sound like a philosopher in the way that you're talking about.
Chen Tang:
Man, I have been accused of overthinking sometimes, of course. But, I’m very thoughtful dude yeah and I think it's a curiosity for me, you know I'm always curious, I just my brain I don't know why I just get lost in things.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You've always been like that?
Chen Tang:
I've always been like that. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay. Were you the daydreaming sort of kid that the parents had to shake because you were off in your own world? Or deep in a book or…
Chen Tang:
Luckily they didn't shake me so I was just stayed in that daydream but you know my grandma actually told me just a few days ago, I was talking to her she was like, ever since you were a baby just would go to sleep sometimes he would just sit there looking at your hands. Literally I was like, are you serious? She was just like, yeah like force you to go to sleep and then when you start to go to sleep you just go into sleep. But if you wouldn't, you know, like sit there for hours just like looking at things, you know, I guess it's just sort of natural.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What did you enjoy in school?
Chen Tang:
The first thing that came from a science man, I mean, it's just that curiosity. Like I remember I would go to the library and like get like 20 books and I would read one of the many times that went to the bath. That was the ritual, you know,` just like devour everything about anything. I'm not fasting.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Just hungry for knowledge.
Chen Tang:
Just infinitely curious. I'm fascinated by everything. Honestly, I'm fascinated about other people's lives, not so much like my own as an actor. I'm always curious about other people's stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So what about biographies?
Chen Tang:
Oh yeah, definitely. And sometimes even, well biography, you know, I'm one of the first, you know, I think for any martial artists like you. I think most martial artist have always been somewhat fascinated by Bruce Lee, right, that was always like a childhood idol of mine, but I get fascinated by the biographies of like, it's funny that you say it's interesting things on the edge, I'm always like really fascinated by like lives of people on the ragged edge of life. And I'm talking about like just they don't necessarily have to be famous like I have a friend in New York and he's a professional drag queen. And I'm like, What is that life like, you know, let me just sit with you all day I can just be the fascinated by that, you know, or like the cop, or the guy who wants the civil war but what's his whole life like I'm fascinated by that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Do you ever take that fascination the next step would you spend a week working at that 711 or learn how to do drag and step out on a stage?
Chen Tang:
Oh absolutely! Especially, you know, it's very helpful for my job. It's sort of like, we can get paid to do that, you know, we, I'm actually just talking with a friend right now we're putting together a project that it actually has to do with a world of drag. And so that might, that could be a role for me in the future. So literally, I was telling him I was like, I need about half a year about like four or five months to go there and just sort of immerse myself and do that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It’s a fascinating culture.
Chen Tang:
Fascinating. Oh yeah and then I take that form for a try to check that for every job that I do, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, here's the here's the question that I kind of have to ask you. There are a few cliché ones that are gonna pop up I suspect and everything leads to as we're talking about this. And if you could play anybody who would that be?
Chen Tang:
Oh wow. That's like asking a mom with a very child, you know, like, I, Jesus, there's like a whole list.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Where you can ask that question of moms as long as the kids aren't around.
Chen Tang:
Exactly.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because I've learned that a lot of parents do have favorite children.
Chen Tang:
It's hard to admit isn't it?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I mean I grew up a single child so you know I was the favorite and the least favorite depending on what kind of terrible things I was doing so I didn't have to reconcile that, and it was seriously, it was like five years ago I heard a mom say oh no we definitely have favorites.
Chen Tang:
Oh well, I think my favorite role right now I mean it always changes moment, you know, like year by year but right now the first thing that pops up in my mind is. Well, two things obviously a huge dream of mine would you do like a Bruce Lee biopic. I mean that terrifies me because you know it's been done and tried so many times. I was like man to do something like that really deeply and well and it habited, that would be insane. Also, I have been 36:22 one of my dream roles is there's this play by David Henry Wong called end butterfly. And it's basically in a nutshell, it's about a romantic relationship between French diplomat in the 1930s, and a Chinese opera singer who he believes to be a woman because the man she plays the piano in the Peking Opera, the men play the women's roles too. So it's like, it would be the role of some needling, the opera singer, just because it's so fascinating. It just that for me, transformation.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So the makeup, the costumes, you dig outside of it?
Chen Tang:
I do.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I've heard some actors don't.
Chen Tang:
Yeah that's not me man because it gives me so much. You know…
Jeremy Lesniak:
It’s a tool to tell the story to share the experience to really dig in.
Chen Tang:
And also it makes you feel different. I mean, look, like, put it simply, you feel different when you're wearing a suit versus like a hoodie and sweats. Yeah?
Jeremy Lesniak:
For sure.
Chen Tang:
Yeah, if you let it yeah like that's just an extension of that. Like you just feel different, you are different. And then all of a sudden, you just a different you.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You mentioned playing, Bruce Lee and the pressure that would put on you. Do you feel any of that now given that it's, you know, his daughter's involved. And it's his concept that you're working on with Warrior.
Chen Tang:
Do you mean do I feel any pressure being a warrior?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yes.
Chen Tang:
You don't believe it or not, no because it was, she no she was our executive producer right and then she were like, the legend. She's the best. She's amazing but she has so much love for this project and everybody had this sort of pure love for the show when we were working on. It was literally a labor of love from the top to the bottom. I'm talking about even the drivers were like really into it you go to work every day. And it's rare that you find that so because we came from it from like sort of fewer intentional place that really do the best we could do. I didn't really feel any sort of pressure to sort of live up to anything. And also that also stemmed from Shannon 38:54 because she was like, you know, what we're gonna make, you know, this was my few shoes like his father's idea but, you know, he only did a treatment of it, and then now we're gonna like take it and run now. And then to also like honor him and honor his legacy, and to build off of that story so we sort of made it our own, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's nice that you have that. I guess that freedom, because when we talk about Bruce Lee, here we are, you know, so many years after he passed, and he’s still the most influential recognizable martial arts figure in the world. It’s legacy. It’s just almost religious.
Chen Tang:
Oh, absolutely.
Jeremy Lesniak:
In understanding, I mean we could draw a correlation to someone else who has or several who have filled large roles after their passing, especially directly draw that equation but it's on the spectrum. It's in that direction.
Chen Tang:
For me it has doubled later, you know, as an Asian person growing up, you know, overseas. As an Asian American growing up, you know when I was a kid that I remember I told Shannon this to her face I was like your father. Seeing your father made me for the first time in America, be proud to be Asian man. How freaking cool is that. Yeah I get goose bumps talking about it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What was it like for you getting the opportunity to tell her that?
Chen Tang:
I got so emotional. I made a little recording myself and I was really getting super emotional. It was sort of like me like, you know, in the moment it's almost surreal. You know, you can't even view anything it's like so surreal, 40:54 hits you, and it was so funny talking to her. And, you know, she's so down to earth and so loving and so wonderful of a person. This is so funny how normal she made it she was just like, Yeah, dad was like this and ,you know, freaking dad was like that and I was like, dude you, Shannon. Dad was fucking Bruce Lee. So, he was like that sense of surreal-ness, you know, so yeah I just really getting really emotional after it. I was like, I can't believe that happened.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's not often we get to meet our heroes and it is, you didn't, you didn't get to meet him directly but you got in a sense you got to do something that few of us ever get to do which is to take something that was important to one of our heroes and work with it, help bring it to life. To help express that vision, and to be involved with the person who clearly is the keeper of the Bruce Lee vision in Shannon and what an amazing job she's doing.
Chen Tang:
Oh yeah. I'm just so grateful.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Wow.
Chen Tang:
Yeah, gratitude to the max, you know, and then I've got to do that back to back actually because move on with something as a Chinese person. We grew up with that story, since childhood. You know, like to do those two things back to back. I mean, people are like, man, he's just a happy dude. I'm like yeah I'm happy to be grateful for. I really do and you know, and I never want to forget. Yeah, so it's like what to some of the great experiences of my life and I’ll remember to the day I die.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Mulan has this history, you know mean. You talk about the story as a kid, you know, the Disney film, the legacy of that and how important that was to so many people. Because of the story was telling and the culture that it was coming out of, at a time when those stories weren't really told in mainstream media. We're seeing such this this amazing transition point just over the last few years just in the time of this podcast. We went from. No leading Asian, Asian American actors in Hollywood, to quite a few shows, movies, crazy rich Asians did amazing at the box office and it seemed like it just blew the doors open.
Chen Tang:
And a we have been working towards that, you know, we'll get there. My, honestly, my sort of dream and endgame would be like, you know, this is not just this is not an Asian actor, this is not, you know, an Asian writer or some basis a writer who happens to be Asian, that's the end right now it's just like there's another person. And the more we do what we do, the more we are sort of visible, the more it becomes normalized, and I think that's, of all things, that's for all things.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. We have a saying on this show that martial arts styles are more alike than they are different. And yeah, we can focus on the differences and we can fight about it we can argue.
Chen Tang:
And people love to argue about that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, it drives me nuts.
Chen Tang:
Why can't you appreciate and just do your thing.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Or why can't we compare notes and get better because of it.
Chen Tang:
That's right and...
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think it's like fusion cuisine.
Chen Tang:
Yeah, I don't understand because like you know even talking about like mixed martial artists like you know, I don't think there's a mixed martial arts out there that's not appreciative of like I'm talking like professional like a fighter, or like well yeah, you know, what can I learn, well that's so true artists way man, you know, they're like, we're Bruce Lee, you know, you go back to Bruce Lee. He studied fencing, boxing, and these things, like dance.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You talked about it as an actor as your craft. Yeah, I'll step in and do drag. Y’all work at 7 Eleven. You want to immerse yourself so you have I would assume as much material to pull from when you create and with these characters.
Chen Tang:
Yes, because every little thing. There's a saying in Zen Buddhism, it's that I like to always kind of remember, it basically says, how you do anything is how you do everything, right. And because it really is true because look if you one of. I'll make an example one of my favorite books that I love to read is the Book of Five Rings near Moto Masashi right. Yes. If this is if you're a martial artists, you haven't read that. This man starts off his book by saying, My name is 46:14 Masashi and I'm a samurai and I have killed 61 men and single combat. And this is my tree decent body. But if you look at it, he goes really deep, because he basically is sort of saying, you know, all art effects other art in like that's why a samurai must study painting or something else. You know, you can learn a lot about the way of seeing the world that could actually influence your art and so you know I might be getting a little 46:45 stop me if I'm getting a little too philosophical here like, you know, what 46:48 pull it back get going on this like sort of.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't think you can get too philosophical for me.
Chen Tang:
Okay, great.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There are listeners out there laughing at what you just said because that's. This is the stuff 46:59
Chen Tang:
Well yeah. It's like you know when you really deep dive into something, you know, really deep dive into something, you start to get influenced by like other things even the, what do they call it like, you can learn a lot about like the, let's say, let's take an example of somebody who was designing a plane, they were laying on the bench he was looking at the flights of birds to design his flying machine. Just to let you see the world money so that that is, that to me is being, that's to me is having an artist's heart, an artist soul. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Do you work in other art forms?
Chen Tang:
Yeah, I've always loved art; I mean I remember just drawing and paintings. Yeah. So, again, my grandmother used to say like, for instance, you were true, you just let sit there and draw things, the things you see. Some old book of them. And it's always been something that's been really close to me. But to answer your question of why I wanted to be a soldier that was one of my dreams I didn't know what I wanted to do after high school so I actually was going to enlist in the military. One of them, my actually one of my big regrets that I did in my life. I have a military family via the Chinese military but they're a military family, many of my relatives were in the military and just have that background. So it's always sort of in my bones, you know, I can't sit here and explain exactly why I feel that way. I just always just had a calling to it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's funny because as you're just as I'm thinking about it as you're describing it acting sort of seems like a combination of the two. It's the structure of the military that you talked about really appreciating and it's the creative side it's the expression, it's the space in between. Whereas painting, you know any constraints that you have you, they would be self-imposed and so they're not really constraints.
Chen Tang:
Yeah, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
For acting, here's your structure. Now find your space within it.
Chen Tang:
Yes. Yeah, I guess I never thought about it like that. I guess you’re right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What do you think you would have painted? If we were on a very different style of podcast and you would gone off, you'd become a painter and a celebrated painter, would be here talking about your paintings, what would they be off what would the subject be?
Chen Tang:
One of the things that draws me to a piece of art is a sense of rawness, and when I say rawness, I mean like something like a Picasso's Guernica. I don't know if you've ever seen that painting. It's just like a, it's so raw of just in motion. In a moment, motion just plastered onto the talking canvas. And if it doesn't have to be perfect, expressionistic sort of abstract things like really call them very much, just something that has to do with emotion in motion. Does that make sense? I don't know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It does. For anybody who's seen it, and I just made a note on the piece of paper I keep buying me we're gonna drop it. Image of that in the show notes.
Chen Tang:
Guernica, yeah I mean like if you've watched that you just like well this guy feels really strongly about something, and in the thing is just like a very raw pure expression of emotion, and it's just so pure so stuff like that, you know I wouldn't do like life like stuff. To be honest, just really all about how I feel in the moment, responding to where I am in life. At that moment, maybe I'll pick up later on in my life.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I hope so I, you know, when I think about actors who paint the one that's coming to mind is Jim Carrey, and I don't know if you've seen any of his work but it's amazing. I mean he's really like gone deep on some of it, it sounds like it's been really cathartic.
Chen Tang:
Oh yeah, I think, you know, that's the thing. We, as actors is again it's sort of like we are, have that constraint, right, we have an end and when you when you get to paint is like you have no constraint, this is just you. You can just really express that how you want to express that. I think we need that, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Would you consider yourself a sensitive or emotional person?
Chen Tang:
Fuck yeah like somebody's ex-girlfriend tell me she was like, you're like a hurricane, a hurricane it's a little overwhelming sometimes, I was like okay, I'm sorry, that's sort of how I am.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Not a lot of filter going on.
Chen Tang:
I can't say no a lot of filter, I just feel really deeply. You know, and stuff, it's really just sort of really sensitive to things; you know like I can walk into a room, I could feel the vibe and feel somebody's energy immediately. And I don't know why, I don't know why.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Some people are just wired that way it's, it's something I can relate to. So the question and I asked this from the position of someone who knows this is a question that has an answer, how do you cope with that? How do you handle walking into a room and feeling the negativity? Maybe if someone's stewing in the corner or…
Chen Tang:
I lean into it, and I know that, like, you know, that's how you I'm not gonna feel 54:28 in the moment. You can just holding space for that. That I think that's a big one of the big cornerstones of good acting is listening, you know, listening, and will really lean on really accepting what the other person's feeling in the moment and they just don't work with that, you know, and that That to me is like you know you say the word cope I don't think there's a word cope I just sort of like dance with it, sort of, just like, allowing accepted. Does that make sense?
Jeremy Lesniak:
It does. It does. I don't know if it's gonna make sense to everybody else but I'm sure at least for some people.
Chen Tang:
People are not gonna be listening as much as this dude is like is this guy on.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, you don't let's put it this way they've been most of them have been putting up with me for years. So, if they can, if they can handle that they're probably good with this.
Chen Tang:
I hope you don't get a bunch of drop offs and subscribers that listen to my episode. 55:28
Jeremy Lesniak:
Here's the beauty of this show and here's why I don't care. This show was set up with a concept around what I wanted. It was the show I wanted to listen to because it didn't exist, and it was bringing on martial artists from all over, all styles, all usage of martial arts in their day to day lives, and having them tell stories. That's exactly what you're doing.
Chen Tang:
I love that. I love that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Martial art is as far as I'm concerned the most amazing tool for personal growth that we have available.
Chen Tang:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And you're talking about how it's led to all these things and so much of what you're talking about, even when you're not talking about martial arts, you could look at from a martial arts perspective. And that's it's beautiful to me.
Chen Tang:
Because it's the martial arts, you know the art of human expression, human movement, and…
Jeremy Lesniak:
Art is the noun.
Chen Tang:
Art is the life like again goes back to like Miyamoto Musashi affects the other art. You know, all things.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What are your goals? What fires you up when you get up, day to day and you say, you know, I am super pumped about achieving this accomplishing this of learning. What are those things?
Chen Tang:
I think, in the same way that many, you know, let's say like a martial artists like that. They want to just really become great at what they do. Right, and to mastery. I think that's really what drove somebody like Bruce Lee. Now he just wants to be that his own mastery of what he does, it's a little bit difficult to put into words. But it really is that concept of like you know what, I just want to be great at what I do. And I've always been sort of wired that way I remember when I was a struggling actor man, just trying naked, just trying to keep a roof over my head. I became a bartender. And that's an art too, you know like, cartella, you know making that's hard, and it has his own techniques and I just remember being fascinated, just deep dive into things to become great at what you do. And then that that is sort of the journey in itself, you know that's, I know it's a bit of a Zen, kind of like way of going through the world and I can't deny that of course yeah you want to you want to like have a successful career you want to, you know, make money you want to, you know, you want to do these things and that's important to you or whatever but whatever it is, it's like you know you want to do the best you can, at something and a big part of that for me is like, if you told me you know what Jen, you're gonna go off and like do million like huge films and you're gonna have a lot of money and all this success. But then I'm also not really wonderful at what I do. That is acting. I would be like, I would look back on my life and be like, man that that is an incomplete life. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Mastery over, let's say broad results, you know, mastery over participation, I guess.
Chen Tang:
Yeah, like the mastery over the external but the non-mastery over the internal. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I would ask you about bartending because that's a subject that hasn't come up before. Every, every bartender I've known has a spirit, a particular spirit that they love working with, you know, and, like, what I'm thinking of actually two that I know. And for both of them it's Hendricks Gin.
Chen Tang:
I'm so happy you said gin, because that was gonna be my answer, gin. Gin, and by the way anybody in that he plans to go to South Africa, South Africa has some of the world's best gins, not a very well-known fact, some of the world's best gins, I don't know why. Maybe it's the you know the British influence or the European influence but like it. It's got like dozens and dozens of local gins, like that also use like botanicals that are native to like this, southern tip of Africa, that you can't find anywhere else in the world aids and it's fascinating.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I have to. I don't do this often I have to brag a little bit on my local area. Because, you know, I'm in the woods of Vermont, we have the smallest capital city in all of the US. The only one without a McDonald's its 8,000 people. You can walk up and just like hang out and eat lunch on the capitol steps, it's that small. And you know what else happens to exist in Montpelier Vermont right now?
Chen Tang:
What’s that?
Jeremy Lesniak:
What has just been named the best Gin, Barnhill Gin just got a perfect score. In whatever the relevant periodicals, I just saw this…
Chen Tang:
I’m gonna right that down. You're taking notes. I'm gonna take notes for myself, I need that Barnhill Gin.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It taste like local honey like it's just, it's an amazing spirits, a cool company, and there let's see, 2, 4, 7 miles away.
Chen Tang:
Wow. Wow. I'm getting, I'm writing this down.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Try it and then let me know I want to hear what you think.
Chen Tang:
I will, I will.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's good stuff.
Chen Tang:
Yeah, like, you know, it's so funny is bartending actually believe that bartending gave me a lot to my life, you know, like also just the way of looking at things because it's really it's this craft. I was really fortunate to be able to say I was really well trained. I, the people that sort of started this whole cocktail movement in New York, and milk and honey, you know, please don't tell these like cocktail mixology bars and stuff. The people that advised them. They gave me a lot of training and so I really like to learn just the history of it and why things are like this, why things are like that. And, yeah, we, I could geek out all day there could be a whole another show right like I could geek out all day about. But yeah, definitely gin, man. Gin is a like, if you really know how to use it. It just makes the best drinks. I think it's just like the best drinks.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's a very versatile option. When you were when you're bartending. I'm sure you had exchanges with, especially if it was in New York some of just the strangest, most interesting, colorful people you could imagine. Do you ever refer back to elements of them and you're acting?
Chen Tang:
I don't know if I do it consciously like I just know that like man I I experienced a lot like New York City, you know, nightlife like, you name it. I've seen it or done it, you know. It's some crazy stuff that happens.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It’s the craziest city on the planet as far as I'm concerned.
Chen Tang:
Oh, me too. Yeah, I agree.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So what's next? You know, I'm noticing the time I want to make sure I'm respectful of yours and we can start winding down but you know what's coming for you? What are you like are there projects you can talk about?
Chen Tang:
Well, currently, 2020 has been a little bit of a weird year to say atleast. Yeah, I mean our industry you know was shut down. And it's just now, gear back up and you know we'll get back into auditions and stuff so, so it was sort of like they push the pause on it. As far as projects, because I mean I'm just taking a look at some scripts right now. Really just auditioning, and really wanting to land. Another great project, and I'm willing to wait for the right one, it doesn't you know I don't just want to be like, just give anything. I spent much of the recording team and just really deep diving into my craft. It's like you know it would be like a listen as a martial art show, you know, martial artists is like they always working on their own, their game in a way that we're working on their, their technique they're working on something to improve themselves in their art, and that's been the majority of my focus lately it's just been like just really deep diving into my acting craft even more. And also to...
Jeremy Lesniak:
Can you speak a little on what that looks like.
Chen Tang:
Okay, you know, just something like a concrete example. Yeah, working on your memory, my memory. Like I would just memorize like pages and pages like listed like that's taken for granted sometimes as an actor, you're like, well, you got to learn lines but how many things do you know by heart. You know, like how, especially if you have something like an audition our turnarounds is like you know get the audition, two days before it's due. You know, all you have to go in for. And for me it's like I always knew that like all my memory needs a little work, because sometimes I'm a little slow, you know, and so they would literally be like you know every single day would like memorize a poem or like a monologue, or something, you know, and just improve that aspect. That's like a small portion of it, you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. That’s great. I appreciate that you know I had suspicions. But most of us aren't actors.
Chen Tang:
Yeah, you know, and there's so many things that I could get into but at the end of the day it's like there's. It's sort of like an athlete, you know like LeBron James would be like spending time on his postgame, you know, post-up game, you know, something like that. It's like, what little details you can we always improve that. To go back to another question you asked is like that that's what gets me every day. I'm like what can I improve today, you know, fires me up.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It’s that a quest for more that growth, that knowledge, you’re sponge.
Chen Tang:
Yes, yes. Yeah, absolutely. So hopefully you know, as I'm pretty sure this next year is going to be something I'll be probably be working on something in the next year. So, that, that is what we have to touch back on it later date.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sounds good. Well, I was give the guest the opportunity to pick the final words. You know, it's not a questions, it's what do you want to leave the audience with? What thoughts, or wisdom, or instructions, or whatever. What do you want to tell them as we head out to the outro?
Chen Tang:
Number 1, I want to thank I guess for your time and I'm so grateful for how much you just love what you do, you know, if you are listening this program, it probably means that you love martial arts very much. And you have an interest in it. And that's something to be 1:07:18 that's something to take fall in love with. You know, that passions on what we do, that passion for growing, that passion for improving ourselves, that's what 1:07:31 of life and that's what Bruce Lee would wake up every day to do. Improve his body, improve his art, improve his mind, and improve something. And that right there, you know, if you have a passion, man. Do it all the way. Every single day and you know, even when times are hard. Just know that right there is what the stuff of life is. And you are deserving, and you are worth it to pursue what your heart desires.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I told you that was a good one. I told you we went deep. I told you we went broad. If we were to make a list of the number of topics covered in a given martial arts radio episode. I got a feeling this would be at the top for the number of different things that we've talked about. And I loved it. We heard how much he love learning, and experiencing, and checking out new things. And that really came through. I've got a feeling that he and I, he and anyone could have talk about anything and he would love to something to add. And I just find that to be so admirable. I had a lot of fun with this one and it's 1:08:44 who he is. So, Chen. Thanks for coming on the show. Thanks for going deep and thanks for your trust with this interview. If you want to know more, if you want to check out the show notes, where we've got some photos, and links, the stuff that we talked about today. Go to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com episode 562. And while you are over there, you can signed up for the newsletter. You can check out our other episodes. You can find a link back to whistlekick.com. There's just a ton of stuff. If you want to go deeper with the things that we make and if you find something that we make that you want to buy, Podcast 15 gets you 15% off . Don't forget you could also leave a review or help us out with the Patreon. And if you see somebody out there rocking some of the whistlekick on it, say hello. Let them know how you know about whistlekick. They could tell you the same. Maybe you'll make a new friend or a new training partner. If you want to follow us on social media, were at whistlekick. And if you wanna write me personally, jeremy@whistlekick.com. That's it for now. Until next time, train hard. Smile. And have a great day.