Episode 560 - Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang is a martial arts practitioner, instructor, and founder at Yang's Martial Arts Academy (YMAA).
The taller the growth, the lower you bow. The more you learn, the more you should be humble.
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang - Episode 560
There aren't many guests here in the show who grew up in uniquely difficult situations and our guest is one of them. Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang grew up in wartime where 15 year-olds like him at the time were required to learn martial arts and conditioned to fight whenever required. Later on in his life, Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang found himself studying PhD in America where he started his first martial arts school in the 80s. Presently, he has written over 30 books about Taichi and healing. Listen as he tells us about his books, movies, and Star Wars!
Show Notes
You can find out more about Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang by going to their website
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What's going on everybody? Welcome! This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio Episode 560 with today's guest, Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang. I'm your host, Jeremy Lesniak, I'm the founder of whistlekick, and I'm a passionate traditional martial artist. I love martial arts, probably about as much maybe a little bit more than you. And that's why you're here because we talk about martial arts. In fact, whistlekick does a lot for the martial arts community if you want to check out everything that we're doing, go to whistlekick.com. Look at all the projects that were involved in all the products. We're constantly looking at how to bring you more how to improve what we're doing and really isn't that the hallmark of a martial artist, how do we make things better a little bit at a time. Well, hover at whistlekick.com one of the things you're going to find is our store. It's one of the ways we fund all this stuff that we do. And if you find something there that you like. Use the code podcast 1560 15% helps us know that the podcast leads to sales. Everybody wins. If you want to check out the website for the show, go to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, a whole separate website, we bring you two episodes every week, and the goal of the show is to connect and educate and entertain traditional martial artists around the world. You want to show your appreciation for what we do. Like I said you could make a purchase but you could also share an episode you could follow us on social media, spread the word about what we're doing, you know, share a post somewhere. Tell a friend, pick up one of our books, leave a review or support our Patreon patreon.com/whistlekick. It's a place where we post exclusive content and if you contribute as little as $2 a month, you get access to it. Let's talk about the show. Today's guest has done a lot. Now I know people say that, oh this person's done a lot now, this person has done a lot. Dr. Yang has written books and founded a publishing house and taught directly or indirectly. I can't even fathom the number of people. He is well regarded, well respected. And even if you aren't familiar with his name, there is a very good chance that you are familiar with his work. On today's episode, we talk about his books and we talk about movies, we talk about philosophy we talk about Star Wars. It's a great conversation that I think all martial artists need to hear. I don't know that I say that very often. I don't know that I've said it at all. But it's definitely true of today's episode. So, here we go. Dr. Yang. Welcome to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio.
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
Thank you. I’m happy to be here.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, I appreciate you being here. And, you know, let's start. Let's jump right into it. And I always ask almost always asked the guests, pretty much the same old me You could call it a boring question I think it's an important question we're, we're on a martial art show where martial artists, we're going to talk about martial arts. We've got to know how you got there. So, when did you start training?
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
Well, I tell what. I was born in 1946, it ended up now I'm 74 years old now. So when I started I was 15 years old, by you know at the time between Taiwan and the Communist China at the time still in the war time. So everybody prepare for war. So I remember when I was a 15 16, we are learning how to use the M1 rifle already, not only men the woman too, so they have to learn how to fight. So when there's a war there will be 03:31. When you 03:32 you die. So therefore, that's the time we grew up in a time is a war time. So because the war time so 03:40 psychology wise, it's not peaceful because everybody say okay why should I go to school, you know, you go to school you're gonna die in the battle anyway. So because then you'd be conditioned your mind has been brainwashed to fight for the war. Okay, so I'm not a 03:56 situation. A lot of people have a different concept, say, okay, what they want to do sometimes become silkier. They want to show they're brave enough and some people just a little bit cowardly, so they go to become gangsters. So the kinds of chaos. So when I saw 15 years old at the time. I find a Master, the White Grandmaster in the mountains. So, and from my friend's introduction I went there to learn White crane from this master. So I lived with him for 13 years and 04:30 to the United States in 1974. I came to New York State for Purdue University to get my PhD. So at the same time I stayed with him for 13 years. Then, when I was 16 years old, because I was nine years old to 15 years old. Actually, nine years old to 12 years old that time there's not much food in Taiwan because everything we prepare for the war. So, especially in my family we have a night children's, I was a number two. So, most of the time you're starving. So, a lot of my brother and sister, and includes me, and the develop the 05:12. So they all say never disappear, never disappear from I was nine years old until 15. And so one day my wife Grandmaster asked me, because when I was training, I was a cold sweat, and my stomach pain. And then I sit in the corner, and he come and take a look, and they check my paws. They say for a year some problem internally, I say yes because this pain since I was nine years old. Until now it never go away. And the doctor says also. So, he say, I heard we practiced Tai Chi Chuan will help you to relax internal organs for healing. Because the next time see that times in 1960 that time is so conservative. So what you learn from one master you cannot learn from the other master is considered betrayal. So, because he said that they left me improve the status I can learn Tai Chi Chuan from the other masters. So, because the reason when I was 16 years old I fell searching for Tai Chi Master for free I can heal mine also. So I file there's a teacher is his teaching English and also teach the soccer game in the good High School, the guy was in 06:30 high school. So, one morning I went there and to see him as him, he can take me 06:37. At a time, there are five students, he had already was that the students from the good school and only one from the gangster high school. They see amazing parks. After I learned from him for six months. The first thing I learned is our deep breathing, how to move the long back the spine and learn to relax internal organs, see, after six months, the amazing part is the episode, 07:03 also the start, reduced. And after one year, and they very seldom, come back again. So that's means I stopped practice Tai Chi Chuan. A lot of people ask me, you say, why you're so young, you're 16 years old you start learning Tai Chi Chuan, it's not because I like it. I hate it because it's just slow motions, and you know but 07:27 I learned to become, and to know how to move the body so I can move on internal organ and relax and softly and with the deep breathing, amazing part of this help my internal organs to relax and repair itself. So I practice with a Master 07:46 or Tai Chi Chuan for two and a half years. Then I went to Taipei already. I went to Taipei for my college, for my universities. So from there, in my classroom in my second class, I guess, and none of my classmates is called Newson Jo. He learned long fist. Long fist, you know, in China, long fist is special and for long range fighting is come from non-style, non-China, and I learned that White Crane is the southern style is a because, you know, in China. You see the Great Wall, on the north so Great Wall is a dry land. In dry land, that's a people they ride a horse, and they use a leg or kick them for martial arts, but we go to 08:32 river south because the Himalaya, there's two big river from China. 08:38 river and also, River and Jiangsu River. So most people from Himalaya. So that's two big river coming down so that's where they develop a lot of small rivers, and a lot the lake. So 08:53 the southern Chinese martial style they have to have a good route. And most of 08:58 fighting, because very often you fight on the vault. So because recent southern style emphasized the routine is don't use the leg as much but sometimes hinge is good, and like to stick with them, and the same time they emphasize short range fighting. So, because the reason my customer loves long fist and long range. So first thing we met each other. He said he knows I learned White Crane and I know he love long fist. First thing he say, hey that's fine, that's fine. Then we just go to classroom, push the entire chair away. And then, and then we fight. And after fighting few times I realized, gosh, he's leg is fast because from the long range I have a big problem. But when they get closely in the short range, they can get problem. So after that I say why. Can you teach me how to kick? Why do you want me to teach you to kick, how to long fist, he says I can get my master here. That's why we get the Master Li from Taipei to come to our college at that time and we found the clap. And that's why I started on the long fist. So that's why in my lifetime after three masters. White Crane is the longest one and the Tai Chi is the shortest one is two and a half years and the long fist about eight years, until, when I was 27 years old, and came to United States in 1974. Okay, that's how I get started. And that time because to me is that psychologically, you're preparing for a war. So you have to think you keep thinking about, will I be brave enough to accept the 10:29 when I go to the war. Would I be able to handle the situation with confidence. See, that's all I'm looking for, but at the same time, you know, I've never got back to ask my father. And if I can learn martial arts, because that time, a lot of kids learn martial to fight, become gangsters. It surprised me my father say, Oh no problem, I say what because I expect he will be against it. Then later my grandma told me because the 11:01 family. We live next to the military airport, but with Japanese controlled Taiwan at the time, and later four years after the war, the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, then American join the war. When American joined the war, then American started to attack Taiwan, especially military base 11:22 military airport and the Young's village, next to the airport. And that's another big problem because Japanese they hide a cannon in the village, and to shoot American airplanes. So because the reason America had the bomb the beach. So that's another 11:40, which people up the war about 40% of killed because of war, and the young people didn't move to the city. So, my father moved to see because the sadness of what happened there. And my grandma told me at a time before the war actually Young's village, there are 700 people, all lost limbs young. So, in about 78% to 80% trained martial arts includes a woman. So because it's a family style. I didn't know that until my grandma told me that my father never against me my father say Oh Okay, go ahead to learn. So that's how I get started.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Wow. There's so much there that we can talk about I'm not quite sure where to start. I think I want to start with the Tai Chi.
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
No, the White Crane probably the one that influenced me most. Yeah because my wife Grandmaster, he's a farmer. Okay, he's not 12:38. He couldn't read, he couldn't write, he's just very pure farmer. When he was 16 years old, because he had family styles, but 12:49, he couldn't allow to learn family style. Because when he was a child, he was given away to another family, probably his grandma's family to carry the last name, but in China this common, you have so many kids, and so give some away, and to carry the name for the other family. So because he was not allowed to learn family style enough when he was 16 years old, he discover 13:14 cell phone messaging. He's the teacher is from Mainland China in the mountain. So he asked, he went there and asked to be accepted as the students. So, he was accepted so he was there when he was 16 years old, he stayed with the Master Jin for 23 years until Master Jin passed away, because that time they have nine students in total because nine student totally their time in Chinese martial arts, no family this is a lot of students usually they take only two or three. So, he was the number nine, he was youngest one. He stayed with him for 23 years until Master Jin passed away. Then, four of them they stay in the tomb and protect the tomb for three years, because they are afraid anymore what some people come to dig the tomb where they decided after three years they secure tomb, then they separate. So, so 23 years he learned from Master Jin so we 14:15. So that's why I started to learn from him. When I started learngin from him, I was 19th, actually, in my groups and 19 I was the number 19 I was the youngest one. So, this amazing part is he changed my life, because before I was 15. I was, I like to fight, I was a violent, because I was not happy about my life, all the starvations, all the get ready for war, and so many kids in the family. And it's not peaceful, my mind is not peaceful. But once I started from my White Crane Master. I found out he's different. He's a farmer. He's very peaceful everything with nature, they grow a chicken, 14:59. And the amazing part is that the philosophy, he understand about life is so deep. Okay, just give us some of the stories I learned from this guy, because I was within 13 years actually he is more closer to me than my father, telling the truth. Because, like I can talk to him. No problem. And he can give me a nice advice, my father because I'm the Japanese mentality when asking question you just slap your face is just not ask crazy, those kind of mentality. Yeah, that's a Japanese time the father authorities. See, but my White Crane Grandmaster is not the same thing. See, so one for example there's a few stories here I want to share with you, because those are stories. This story is the one continue to affect my life until today. And the amazing stuff on 16 years old, 15 years old, all the stories that stuck into my mind. Always keep remind me about what the person I'm supposed to be. My master say, my White Crane Grandmaster say you look, one thing you're learning martial art is not learning martial arts. I said what he said no, you're learning martial art is the way to learn the meaning of life, to understand the meaning of life. So you have to challenge yourself, and you have to suffer, from the suffer you have to fall enough to stand up stronger. See, that's the mentality is different because it's not the same. So when I listen to them. I say yes I have to accept the challenge. Okay, so that time everything I learned this from surface. It's not a question, one day, he talked to all of us. He say, look, all you look at your 16:49 appearance is all the forms, and they don't know what is the meaning behind the forms and how we created, because that's important, you will know how they created that you don't know the meaning of the moments, then that's mean, not only the feeding is shallow. You can even use it in the fight, in the defense. Okay, then you tell us the story, he said there's a boy. This boy comes to see a master. He said hey Master, I heard you can change a piece of rock into gold. Is that true? Master. Yeah, it's a true, your piece of a gold, I change one for you. But boy, say, No, no, no, I don't want to go. I want the trick. My Master, even know the trick you can create. If you don't know the trick, all you do is just go. 17:39 after you spend it you got nothing. Because of this reason, that is why it inspire me say wow. This mean that's what I'd like to say, wow, that's me, I want to learn every moment I want to see traced back to what is the reason of their moments, and what the defense offense, the purpose, and in this case I will know. From there, I will be able to create new things. So that's the one thing that those have us talking for him, he was not educated, but you can understand this through 23 years with his master by learning martial art. Okay. One day, I was after one year, I was so proud of myself, because I believe after one year, I can do better than and now my customer he was there for three years. Then, one afternoon I went to see him, because after the school I'd have nothing to do, I went to see him, and he was there for he saw when they have to talk to him, and mentioned about all I think I'm better from that guy what do you think? I was hoping to give me some praises. Oh you did a good job or something like that. No he didn't. He look at me and said, Hey, he is still young, because when I was 16 years old I didn't grow up yet. I still very short. It's a little Yeah, you see the bamboo because bamboo in China and in Taiwan is everywhere. So, you see the bamboo. I say yeah. He said, you see the taller they grow, the lower the bows. So let's mean the more you learn, the more you you have, then the lower should bow, this mean you should be more humble, or that hit me so hard that makes me very amazing important person for my life because this sentence, always keeping my mind when I accomplish something I should not bother myself. What I do is to keep my head bowed down and continue walking, continue learning. And that's how become today what I am. So because of what he educate. And now those things is a very amazing part two is one day I saw two of my classmates, the same movements, White Crane movements and two of them they come up with different applications. And to me is one movement and one application because of my mind is stubborn. Then they come to ask me say which one is right. Then he look at me say hey, how much of one plus one. I said two. He said, No, it's not two. I thought it's kidding because one person everybody know. But he said no, it's not two I said how come it's not two one plus one is two. He said your father is one, your mother is one. you have five children, now you have a seven. One plus one is a seven. Then I start to say, that's the art. If you treat our head, one plus one is two. If you treat us alive, the 20:33, can be developed through the feeling, so one plus one can be many. See that's why is there so many styles exist in China. It doesn't matter, she need 20:43 any style they have so many different branch of style, but it come from the same principle. But once the student learned that they learn to bring into their feeling, and to their bodies, figure bodies, structure bodies size, and they tried to modify and become their style. That's exactly in China. So, becomeso many styles. Train style, young style but style and style whenever is meant to be, because it's an art. Art is created by feeling and this feeling is a life, when feeling's a life is creative. He is not creative, is that okay. Have they explained it, understand that was also open my mind. Very imagined, very much. The reason because I was so stubborn, I put myself in a corner. When I look in a corner. All I see is a corner. That's it. But now he teach me how to turn my body around 180 degree. All I see is not convex a huge room or a huge space. So since then I saw open my mind, but not only I learn from him. I learned from anywhere I can and I try to open my mind keep my self humble, and then that's how I learned continue learning continue learning as I have written more than 40 books, then the power is so many videos because the more I write, the more I share, the more I learned, and so writing is actually motivation of my learning. So, that's a, that's an amazing part to me because, to me my successes come from this philosophy. And another thing is they're very fun things is when they come to see him I was so depressed because one my classmate he's very good. And he can remember things so fast and learn so fast. I was stupid. I learned very slow. Yeah, a little bit slower so I was frustrated. So one day I just come to him. I say well yeah look at that and I'm so stupid I cannot learn fast and then compare with someone I know I'm so dumb. Don't even look at me. You say, hey, why do you look around? ? Because you want to plow because he's a farmer, so you want to plow it because you want the plow. It's not because people around you want to plow. Why you look around? You think you are head, you're so proud of yourself, then become lazy. When you are, you're behind you get the praise you get so stressful. Then, why you look around it because you want to learn out you want to learn it just keep your head down and keep plowing, keep plowing plowing. Okay, keep digging, don't look around, don't compare one day. When you say, Okay, I'm taking a break. Okay, well you took a break and look around and see where's everybody because you dumped in so far behind. You cannot even see them. See, that's exactly what I do. Since then I just keep my head down, keep plowing, keep plow, keep learning, keep writing, whenever I can. The more I learn, the more I share the more I share the more I learn. Amazing. That's my life. So let's understand why he called learning martial arts, or even teaching martial arts is a way of life is the meaning of life so amazing part. So, and this also we say oh this thing you wrote a copy that you have to go through the self conquering. Yeah, if you don't have a self conquering, then that's why people call self discipline, because they always say okay, you, you should be outside round. Inside square. I see what you mean outside rock, you say you want to get along with the people this society is a big ball inside a lot of small balls. If there's one square, either up grind down to be a ball or he'll be kick out of the circle. So he say you want to be getting along with people outside be round, so you don't have problems other people, but inside you have to be square, because you don't have square in your inside with you, then you don't have a discipline. Oh, yeah, that's also this another lesson because I can tell you all this lesson in influenced me. Because, that's why I'm staying consistent I set up a goal for myself, and I try to conquer myself and see for example, I hate physics. I have visited but in that when I got my PhD in science, people say, Oh, how can you help you get to all with a master's degree and PhD. I said that's because I hate so much, because I know the conquer myself, I have to stay inside. If I can stay inside How can I conquer myself, if I like it. Then there's not concrete 25:30 I do what I like and then there's no concrete and then my spirit cannot be developed. See, that's a conquered my self. Okay, the more I want it, the more I have to do it. So, that's how. That's how I am today. Yeah, I'm 74 now I'm still a student and continue learning.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Did you say 40 books? You’ve written 40 books?
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
More than 40 books. More than 40.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Why the first one?
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
The first time because the first four book actually published by unique publication, because the time it says current United States. Okay then see after I got received my PhD in 1978, in 1978 on that time, I already been in America for four years, and that time Bruce Lee just passed away, and at a time, as long you're Chinese. They think you know martial arts. So, the martial art is so popular, and all normally that the school children school people turn people not like today. Today's very peaceful. Okay, so the time I say, Well, I get a 1978 when I received my PhD. And I 26:48 engineer for six years, and I hate it. I didn't like you know I feel like a six years, I got no life. Because all I became is a money slave. Every day you drive traffic and go work so hard. Go back, you're so tired, and then you sleep. Pretty soon, 60 years pass already what I think about what's my life, not to think about, I got no life. I'm only man's slave. So after that, I decided to quit. See, because of good timing because the time in 1983. The Martial arts is still very good so when I stopped 27:26 in 1978 actually I start writing book because I tried to introduce myself to the public. So that time the Unique publishing publications. They then took my first book, and therefore, they say now is too big. Because 27:41 long fist, isn't too big, but it's a very popular inside the older long fists contents inside. So, that's the reason that's a separate income. Sharing 27:53 to me is that American don't know Chinese 27:58, but then know Japanese Jui Jitsu. Yeah, that's a touchy to actually from Chinese to China. Because a Japanese culture you know 50, 60% of Japanese culture, came from China. That's why you look at Japanese. The latest symbols inside 50% Chinese symbol so I can read Japanese. Japanese can be Chinese, but we cannot talk to each other like we can communicate each other by writing because Japanese they learn everything from China like a Judo. Judo come from Chinese wrestling and karate come from Chinese White Crane and Jui Jitsu come from China. But people know to Jui Jitsu or Keto. So I say okay, I want to introduce myself to the public. 28:51 What did you know about. So that I since then the my first books China So, today you can see because the friends they see they have a martial encyclopedia. The authority, 29:03 not see my names, there is a martial arts encyclopedia. That's because definitely first book of China after that people still realize, oh, Chinese of China is the origin of Jui Jitsu and Keto. all those locking technique. But eventually, then in channel there's no China style, they're not China style, China is existing in every style. Because in Chinese every style emphasized four thing. Okay, Ti is kicking, Ta is striking my hands and 29:34, na is the chin up. So it means in kicking and striking when they pass in Japan become Karate. And then when the restaurant can become Judo and China go to Japan becomes Jui Jitsu, Akido. So, when these things they actually 4 things has to be together. Before you can see wrestling, especially against kicking and punching. The wrestling in rotate people down you had to really touch people's bodies. But before you touch me, I will kick you. I will punch you before you even reach me your hand reach me. So, the can reason, in order to take people down you had to wait and two people attacked you. So when they time, we'll give you a chance when they fail the attack, so you can get in where we can take them down. Okay. And then, for no reason they have to touch it, but I cannot is not easy to against kicking punching, you know it's not easy, but 30:29 knows it's easy to get people to touch you. So why don't you talk to 30:33 luck and why are we so never Chyna against the restaurant and kicking them punching against 30:41. So in China, any style, in order to make the style complete you had to 30:48, kicking punching and the wrestling and kicking and the Chyna those four things. But today's you know there's a lot people don't understand the letter I try to educate people. Because the people they go from Japanese mentality of Karate. Remember, I was laughing when in 1974, when they come to United States. The first thing that there's a song there called Kung Fu fighting, Kung Fu fighting. I was amazing because Kung Fu is not fighting. There's no conflict fighting because mostly Muslim teachers and law enforcement, by taking piano, you can learn painting, you can you can go to your car, whatever. As long as you take a spend time, and energy accomplish anything in Chinese called Kung Fu, don't fool me time, energy, there's nothing to do with a martial art. Martial art is a Kung Fu. Kung Fu is not necessarily martial arts. Okay, that's the first thing I do with Americans mentality. Okay. The second thing I was so surprised when looking at Chinese Kung Fu is request for in the yellow book is under Karate. I said what, it's Karate it is from China, and how come Chinese Kung Fu is under Karate. Why? What was the reason. I realized after the Second World War, American Navy force and the Air Force, they stay in Japan to protect against Russia. So, American soldiers. They learn karate and then bring it back to America, in 1950s, and early 60s, then only they invite Japanese master come to America so let's say Karate is oriental martial arts first introduced in this country. So that's everything, everything over 32:37 Marshalls is Karate, even today, a lot of people still Karate. Chinese Martial Arts, oh Karate. So I want to understand that. So, Anyway, that's a pass. Okay. So starts on now I hope I don't know, after so many books and videotape. I publish it, because I found it while I'm in a publication, I found it. I found it and about 16 years ago, I sold it to one of my employees. Actually, he was my student, and he did a good job and continues to carry the mission. So, the way we published now has been recognized in the whole world. So, so my book is mostly published by them, and I write novels. I write six novels, and then try to, because I read a novel last few years, and tried to, to share people about feeling of my life because I cannot wait to be 33:35, but people say why not. He said now in my lifetime, I have a lot of positive things and negative things, and it should I mention about both. If I only say the good part not the bad part, then I'm lying is almost like a sealer commercial always carry the goods of the products, they don't tell you the paper, they don't tell you the size of a 33:53. So, I cannot do that either on the rail for big awkward yeah I have to expose one I had one who betrayed me while I cannot write and so I said, Okay, then. How can I share my story? Then I write novels. So, I encourage people go to amazon.com find the novels. Read my novels and know my life.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Which do you enjoy writing more novels or the more instructional non-fictional?
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
Because the question that novel is for me is more relaxing? Yeah, because I have create story, and put my life story mixed together with the novels, and novel help me to prevent my 34:37 keep my mind busy I'm gonna keep my brain busy all the time. All the time. So, you know that they say you don't use it you lose it so I have to keep my mind right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So let's talk about the using it the martial arts we heard about your instructors in China. But you've lived in the US for a long time. Yeah. Yeah, what happened with your training when you got here?
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
Because the question that novel is for me is more relaxing. Yeah, because I have create story, and put my life story mixed together with the novels, and novel help me to prevent my 34:37 keep my mind busy I'm gonna keep my brain busy all the time. All the time. So, you know that they say you don't use it you lose it so I have to keep my mind right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So let's talk about the using it the martial arts we heard about your instructors in China. But you've lived in the US for a long time. Yeah. Yeah, what happened with your training when you got here?
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
Because that's exactly what happened 19, because I learned from three masters in 1974, I come here and look around, look around at the time to pay $1 $1 is big money to me how can you have to pay $1 to even observe to watch a class in the martial school. Okay, it's not easy. So I pay $1 for men to watch the class. After watching so many praise about six praises I say that's not martial arts, this is not essence to us. I realized the old martial quality is very lower that time, because everybody in the last couple moments they open the school because everybody wants to learn martial art because of Bruce Lee. Okay, so that's another problem so that's when I was going to do I start thinking about how can I share what I learned with America. So that's why I started sharing. But even now, I went back to Taiwan. Taiwan also not because of modern style or modern lifestyle, then the martial arts is not really serious now. They treat it like a hobby. It's not like a when we trained in 1960s, we trained it with very serious. It's a very traditional, but now today martial arts is not really as serious as used to be, and train people train for fun is now like the death situation. It's not only that, because since martial arts have become a business for example I learned from three masters. I didn't pay one penny, because they just want to teach you. And that's it. and you stick with them, and then time all the students we accept it. We commit ourselves we train hard, but today is now today so many business between teachers and students is money. And there's no moral, there's no compassion, there's no relations. He said, Masters, Masters so I pay you money you're my employee, that's all. So those cover attitudes so that's why there's no respect there's no martial morality today. When I see that I feel very sad, because the bigger Chinese martial arts, 37:17 you see most of good Chinese martial art, a high level martial arts from monastery. Okay, I don't care. Thai teaching is 37:25. Okay, 37:27 come from Buddhist monastery from Shaolin. Okay, and a lot of martial over monastery their monk, the monk they are supposed to teach people how to kill people, the 37:40 of useful defense on that because people don't understand. The train martial art is I have a two aspect of training. One is the inside and the one is 37:50 side is physical manifestation inside is your mind, because your mind initiator anything then attributes outside. So question is two parts. So the deeper the mind is the stronger, no more powerful, it's not can be manifest. Okay, but to the outside is manifest. So forms, but inside is called meditation is the mind, focus, alertness awareness and the spiritual cultivation self-conquering or what you call self-discipline. All this internal today, I feel very sad, because you can see all the martial art movies today. They will emphasize the good side they don't emphasize the inside. All they emphasize killing, violence. I feel sad because I remember before I was in praise for the movie is a movie series in in TV called Kung Fu by Dave Karen's. Every show inside still talk about morality, talk about the life, talk about everything. So this show in London, because I didn't like the fighting the fighting was bad, but Christian philosophy, I like it because this really matters to Chinese philosophy, but then it also in 1980. Until now, it's all gone. You can see they don't see more movies, larger movie come fantasies become like a Superman, like, what Disneyland. And you can see that even Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon this our oldest. The Jackie Chan, not Jackie Chan, 39:29 movies all gather wire hang in there fly around. So, when I was in Egypt. About 20 years ago, I was in Egypt for the seminars; I was invited to have a lecture in the college in the universities. Inside amazing 127 come to listen. And you know what the first thing they asked, they asked like can I teach them how to fly like a Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. Oh, look at the students, 40:01 then ask them a question okay, tell me. Okay. How many time Chinese team wins Olympics? Chinese 40:10 Wake up and then another student asked me and say, Oh, I heard Chinese Master will be able to protect their mind send a cheat or kill people miles away. I look at him and say well look at George Bush still alive. Right. If Chinese can do that. They already cure American prison, whatever. There is not, 40:44 that's an Oscar thing it's not realities.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Why do you think people are obsessed with these ideas and specifically as you're saying, we tend to think of these dramatic larger than life ideals. Being part of Chinese martial arts I've never heard anybody talk about, you know, Taekwondo practitioners doing any of these things or, or Okinawan masters doing this.
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
Because they have more real, Chinese become fantasies. And this is a fantasy because the people like it let's start from Mainland China, when they emphasize the modern Zu. Modern was so they started from 1970s Okay, under the founding and they all they emphasize the forms, there is no mean of the moment so they seize performance and we make a beautiful make an outcome out of it, and because the reason you ask them, because I sponsor, the championship base while I'm the master, me and Boston, MA Cosima is Danielle's mother. three of us we sponsor 41:50 before in 1980, because 1980s, who still can't get big, and we sponsor Beijing, so Team Beijing was something suppose the best in the whole country, and I, we invite them come to America for six cities to perform in Boston, I talk to them and check these master 42:10 was there too. So, on the bus I asked them there. For example, I took them to Harvard University on the technical Harvard University they perform beautiful they are because those the trend is not easy is those are competitive is not easy, very impressive. Isn't it easy but it's beautiful. So, but I've tried to see okay they have such a good reflexes and the last thing, how much of them can really use it for fight. So, when I was in Harvard University I chose the biggest member in the team. I go there, my right hand block his left hand, and locked it. He doesn't have reflexes. He doesn't know how to get out. All he said just don't hurt me. Don't hurt me, and perform tonight. Now as I feel sad because I've been training since they are five six years old. Until now 20 years old, then they cannot defend themselves, and they call martial arts is called is called dancing is a performance. So lesson on the bus as been as the Japanese master he said, What happened because China where they emphasize so much a mother who 43:15, he said. People like like become a movie star. They want a movie star Odyssey so looking so they end up today's martial arts, movies, this all emphasize looking fancy, fancy things and those kind of superpower things. And that's why you wonder Christian you know this, they say, do what movie I like, I like all movies like the old movie like a checklist first movie the Shaolin Temple. A Shaolin kiss. Last time, they don't have those kind of fantasy things. This because they're more real. But now if you like it. You don't have the feeling you feel like everything like Superman is almost like, you know, Star Wars right? Star Wars, Star Wars starts with episode 4, 5, and 6. Those three, I like it. Then, when you come to 1,2, and 3 all the computer graphics stuff, and everything you just feel like it's not real. Each I feel like I'm the kids, and then they treat me like the kids especially now what Disney 44:20 the reason of a show now looking for signs. What is that, so that's that's a question the people's 44:31 they don't think deep, for example now, I'm always said your classical music, classical music helps you focus and develop your feeling deeply touch you. But today, the kids don't want to listen classical music. You cannot find a classical music station, easily in the radio. And all they want. All these things and numb yourself and the very show. And that's it. What is the feeling of we got today and I emphasize looking emphasized material things, the spiritual thing in terms of things, the frequency 45:11 greater. So that's why it must be feel so sad, so awful I don't know if I keep writing books hopefully I can brainwash some people to join me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm wondering, as we talk about martial arts and how it's changed and some of the places where you think it's. I guess failing. Yes. How can those of us who love martial arts and train. How can we help? How can we make it back?
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
First one year on the movie. Because the movie affect everybody for example 1960s all the movies all the movie star cigarette in the movie 1960s. And after that, all the school kids everybody had to learn because cool, is a fashion. So much influence society so much people don't understand it. So the martial arts, the movies that come out has to be really right, the righteous and help people to direct people in the right way so one way and emphasize now is the violence, and all these things and that's what made me feel sad. So in the first thing is to see the public for example. Now, we talked about Chinese martial arts, you got chance marital arts in Taiwan, in China is in a college course. In a college course because he's talking about spiritual side, talk about internal feeding and talk about the performance. But it's not in this country, everything inside violence, when they emphasize violence now people start hitting, because it cannot be classified like a golf, a like a basketball, like it cannot classify them because it’s a violence. That's because the emphasis so much of violence of the Chinese martial art or in the movies, and the people like it you know therefore make me feel sad, you know the humans. We have a genetic memory. Okay genetic memory is that in your limbic system that's in genetic memory developed, so the thousand years of history human history. By repeating history. But he looked at the make yourself nervous because all the end will have a genetic memory, for example, the cows, after they were born, they already know how to start and milk, they already know how to find a water. All the thing is genetic memory, the genetic memory come from repetition in the history. Okay. So, look at that. Then we have genetic memory, and then look at human history and make me scare between human history. You see, is all about conquering, killing, raping, slavery, all these bad things, violence, and the look at this violence, even until 1950s. Newton's Second World War. How can I went to the camp in Poland. Hitler killed 6 million Jews in four years. How can humans solve violence. And this is in our blood, but also we have a good side, in our genetic memories compassion, and the kindness although things. Christians today in the movie the general public, they don't emphasize the good power human don't continue, focusing via exhausting because they sell those things they sell people like to see movies of violence. And then they sell that's because in the 48:35 in our blood, but we continue to encourage people to be violence, how can human come to the peace. Because we don't we suppress done with the good part of our genetic memory that made me feel sad. So in this case, the human continued like that, our spirit you know grow. He was free cannot grow. I don't think you can go to other 48:57. The one day on human would be able to jump into hyperspace got the other 49:02. The alien will have to have an a war with us to choose. Because the question their alien they'll be able to come to those if they're ever seen. If they come to Earth already, so let's mean their spiritual is very high and then I'll clear the concrete. But human, we've got everywhere we abuse we conquer, our spirit so long. That's because we still have that genetic member. That's why you see the movie Avatar. That's really a good lesson, but that's a human. So, when can we human will be able to go the other premise. Because so far we can. Yeah, we are able to do it, then they have to stop you from going there. Otherwise, you know, they cannot be safe. So because humans, compared with the whole the whole thing screamers agree, humans and violence and humans selfish. Humans viruses like a like a matrix. But anyway, so because reasonably, you want to change it, we have to see all the public includes your spatial data emphasize, focusing the martial arts morality side of training from martial arts morality, how you can conquer yourself, your culture and you will train your beat patients at endurable and the compound and think. Meditation is a key. You see it's a traditionally our Chinese martial arts. Everyone meditate. That's why I stopped meditate when I was 15 years old. But today, they don't meditate or they do a shop or they do okay I got a competition, okay I win, I win. Our business glorified. And that does make me sad. I'm 74, maybe I'm old fish. I try to compare with today, all the time. But I found so far we got the wrong way. So that's a reason now poverty slowly. Not slowly very fast. Yeah, they slowly, they push all this violence away. They don't want aspirants 51:03, you know. Yeah. This continued growth, the martial art is going to be dead. Because we continue to emphasize will emphasize a good part of discipline all we emphasize is it is a balancing killing. Okay, I'm sorry.
Jeremy Lesniak:
No. No apologies, this is exactly what we go for on the show. I told you I don't, I don't talk much I prefer to hang back and let the guests tell the stories and you're telling wonderful stories but I think we're really on something that is, it is important and I know you said maybe, maybe it's because you're older but I think that we especially in Western culture we don't value the opinions of our elders, I think martial arts is a place where we do. But I think what you're saying here I think it. I don't expect everyone listening to agree and that's okay but I want them to hear what you're saying because I think you have a really good point that martial art has become such fantasy. That it becomes really hard for not just the general public, but those of us who train to separate the reality from the fantasy and if you can't separate that even while you're training it. How do you know how to train, and why to train?
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
Well, anyway, they give us something so we can compare, we compare to get the price that's all that's what they give to you. So, because you see oh Superman, he say okay I want to become Superman after they try so hard I say now I cannot become Superman okay I quit. Okay, what else.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm digesting I'm trying to pick one of the 400 questions I think I could ask you right now. And I think I want to go back you talked about when you first came here, that you visited schools. And you observe schools I said you want six of them and none of them had what you thought was worth your time now. Did you, did you eventually find something or did you open your own school?
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
Because, I find this. The court is not good they know that they know a little bit, they start teaching, and every school have 200 students. Oh, gosh, and say wow they make good money, and then I say no, my, my goal is to get my PhD so I went to Purdue because one of my classmates teach in Los Angeles and in the San Francisco. In the San Francisco area. He told me say when you go to for your 53:39 for what you train, I guarantee because he learned from me when I was in Taiwan so he knows me. So he said, You I guarantee you got 200 students in six months. I said no no not my goal is coming into a nice space to get my PhD that's my goal I set out my goal, I got so nice I went to Purdue, Georgia, I went to Purdue, then then I stopped because in order to do I got a scholarship. The scholarship is a tutor is a instructors cost you time to teach. And each month I got $320. And in that $310, my wife come next year $320. We spend $17 a week for food, because the rain to the school is $120, and I had to send $50 home to help my mom because we have so many kids, and the second one, my oldest brother is a military doctor than the money, so stick with me. The next one is all in the school so I have to send $50 on behalf of my family. My mom say $50, you send back, we can support the kids, suppose all the people for one month about leaving. That's how strong American money was at that time. Okay, so now I spend $1 to watch everyone that to me that's Ouch. Because $1 is a lot of money to me. So that's when I was in Purdue, I started, second year, and the 55:04 is my first students in America. Yeah, because he liked it so he helped me to form the Purdue Kung Fu Corp. So that's what we started. And there's a time each month, I can get extra money I can get almost 200 hours ago, his students only pay about 15 or $20, because Jeff is more hands on that. So, to me, is even $200 that's a big money for me. So that's why I started teaching. After a teaching career for one year, then Purdue University, the theatre department. They invite me to teach Tai Chi Chuan for the students. It was a current. I was surprised I was impressed I say wow, why do you want to learn Tai Chi Chuan in the theatre department for the students. Is a no because they know when you practice Tai Chi Chuan, they put their performance renowned nature, a more calm, and that's what they want is for to help this stage performance. Okay, that's why I started teaching that and also earn some money. So from there, that's how I start teaching, when I start teaching, I stopped organized what kind of book I want to write so eventually when I come to United States, I realized one thing important things. I cannot find Master here in America. If I want to find a master maybe in China in Taiwan I can find it but not in America, definitely. So since then I say, Okay, what can I do. The first one I had to learn how to teach myself. And then no one to teach myself, I start collecting information for example, I started teaching Purdue for Tai Chi trip. I didn't know too much about Tai Chi, and I learned two and a half year with Master 56:42 in Taiwan that's all I had. So, when in Purdue and I start collecting try to find any documents in 1970, 1979, when they went back to Taiwan, I go to the library. I go to bookstore because there's no internet that time. So, yes, find any information I can I bring back the United States, I studied them, and still learning from there. I tried to interpret because all this ancient writing interpreted. So through the collection. And the compound. And after that, comprehending is understanding. After that, and I started to write it through the way people can understand goes through this process. After I finished one book, and now the topics. Very good. So because the reason I will first book as I learn see all these motivations come from 1979. Okay, because the 1978 and 1974, I come to United States, and the 1978, my mother come become my first child was born. And my mother told me say, you know, your wife Crane Master passed away two years ago, I was completely shocked because he's like my father and my mom is why he didn't tell me. My mom looked at me say, What would you do if I told you, I couldn't answer because she knows if I know my master passed away, I will quit school, I go home. My mother looked at me said that's why I cannot tell you to me your school is more important than your master's funeral. See, that's the things. So because of reason that in 1979. I stopped working as a post doctor research associate. So that time, I got a vacation, I went back to Taiwan. After five years. In the United States, and I went back and my Masters two son took me to his tombs. I said on his tombs, I was so sad, because I couldn't see him and I look at the tombs. I sit there in the hot summertime. I sit there almost two hours just to stand in was there with me. And when I look at tomb. I keep thinking, What is, what is the loss. None of them my 59:06 includes me. 59:08 knows, he was his master for 23 years. And then none of us have taken our commitments and the original capability. So, because reason things. Last, bear with him in the tombs, his loss, there are preserved in China, but it's lost. So finally, is sitting for too much story to him. That's my bow to you. When I come back to America. I never did I learn anything I know, and reveal to the outside. There's no secret and share with people. If you don't share with people that I was gonna be dead. So that's very surreal and keep my promises that I commit since 1979. I started writing heavily. And that's why the book from produce from Unique publications that coming out. After four books unique publishing, then I realize, because you have to follow exactly what they want you to. But the way I write is not the way they want. They want more like surface stuff, but I want to know is the theory behind, what is the root behind what training is not just only performance only the forms, you don't have a meaning. So, because reason. After four year after four books that publishing and decided to start my own publishing at a time. It's not easy, because there's no computer. There's no software, you can write whenever I go to Purdue University I go to Harvard university to learn typesetting. Then I should photograph and the time where the shoot picture and every 60 pages become one sheet. After that, the year the paste it to get a picture pasted whatever that's how I started the publishing business. And then, beginning I don't even know if I can survive in 1982, I start, I quit my job because after six years in the engineer, I was so sick of it. I know if I continue stay there I'm gonna kill myself so finally I quit. When I quit. I started writing the book and then I started teaching, and the first two years very tough. First two years because my name is not that big yet. Even though I have a full book published, but it's still not big. So the first four years is very hard for example the first year, because we didn't, I didn't have a job. So I didn't have any insurance, but they take some time you know I got a cold. When I got a call I tend to pneumonia, and the temperature going up come down going up come down and hang in there for what two three months until one of my students, or he was studies pewter is the doctor good to become a medical doctor and he can come back from 1:01:58 and come to visit me, he said, Hey, Doc they look awful. They say yeah I don't know why my temperature, up and down for two three months away. He said, Wait, wait, so he went back to bring those put in the ear to listen to your heart. I don't want to call this English, my English not that good. So, it isn't he said you have a pneumonia. I said, What you say you had pneumonia. Question two three months you should be dead by now. So that's why I contact my brother because my youngest brother is a doctor's. So that's a clock ticking right away because I couldn't get the prescription. So my brother sent me. Tell me the antibiotics, right away. After I receive antibiotic. I take it and amazing three days four days later temperature become going down and become stable. And then you see six months later, my first book come out, is the 1:02:54 for health and martial arts, and those along, I was writing. I was an editor, no I hire people were editing my English. Okay. And I was writing, I was a typesetter, I was everything. I was the garbage collector, I was a teacher, I was doing everything I'm a Superman. That was Superman, and then. Yes, the book publisher, I tried to contact with the older older Martial Arts stores, and then become have for my goods from publishing from a Unique publication. So some of the start 1:03:30 people start buying my book, and I published myself. Okay, so after that for a while then one of my students, 1:03:40 became very committed, then we help you to open the market. That's why he's not. He's the owner of a new I'm a publishing speaker he started scrubbing, he quit his school, he quit his job and come to help. So I said come on I cannot pay you. He said, No, no problem. So I pay you by percent your employees sell and get 20%. That's how we started and we started very difficult. On the nothing no finance, no money, nothing. So we started step by step on book after next look at learn, we learn from the past we know what book is good, what books not good, what book can sell our books not sell some beginner is writing to survive. So that's why the beginning of my writing is yellow books for surviving and about one third is for myself. Yeah, but once the company becomes stable after 10 years. Then I still write a book, maybe I can learn. For example, the deeper aspect of Tai Chi Chuen, 1:04:35 is part of a Chinese martial art training. So that's I want to know deeper and deeper, but end up now my 1:04:42, so many books and publishing in 1:04:44 because since then. I practice and I studied ancient documents, I understand them and tried to write them and try to share with public. Through this process, I learned to teach myself. So, since 1974, I came to United State. I learned from myself, of course not for myself from ancient documents, because the ancient documents, give me the guideline, because that's what had been passed down for thousand years. So those last document to me is so important. So I'll definitely do it my way see my book, when you read my book inside a lot of ancient court ancient documents quotation inside. That's why.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Let's shift gears a little bit as we start to wind down here. You're still going. I know I know many people. And we've talked to a number of people on this show your age, and the people we talk to on this show that are your age are like you they're there, they're still going they're still working very hard and achieving and sharing their information, but if we look at the rest of the world. Someone who's 74. They're often they're just done. What motivates you? Why?
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
Let’s go back to when I was 50 years old. When I was 50 years old, okay at a time. I start thinking about past. I don't think about the future because my father passed away when he was 48. Okay, that's why I was 50 years old, I'm two years old than my father. So I'm ready to go. So by the time I think about the past, so that's why it's every time think about think about future. Okay, one of my best friends from Venice. Every time I went to Europe they come to meet me because he can speak Germany, he speak French, he speak English, he speak all the European language because he worked in a casino. In the casino you have to speak all kinds of language. Then he interested in martial arts in Tai Chi Chuen and 1:06:53 so he always come to meet me in the first step, and you try me around so we become very good friends. So, when I was 50 years old. He died. He just as age as me. He was dying he died because 1:07:05 meditation. So that's the reason we don't people don't know meditation right. They don't know, don't take a risk. Yeah, he talked about he asked me about the 1:07:16. I told him I don't know what really I heard of it by, I don't know the details I cannot teach you want to learn that but not in meditate in the Venice, in the ocean, the ocean The head is about the water and the 1:07:30. He cannot breath. The answer is 1:07:35 mouth on the ambulance arrived here when the doctor 1:07:39 his body, his lung. He sounds like a scuba diver, and go to from the ocean deep ocean come to the surface very quick. So there's a blood saturate into the vassals. Then he died for the course. And the doctor said the only reason he was holding the breath while you meditate in the water. So that's what I know right away, he's alone in total shock breathing. So for a year I went to Venice, I went to his tomb, to show my respect and his friends Franco, was there I ask Franco and said when he learned this a total 1:08:16 will be from the Japanese master in the in Venice, I say Can you take me to the Japanese Master, I need to talk to him. He said they must accept your six months ago so since then I lost contact. So, So after his death. And so realize why I keep thinking about past, and waiting to die. So, since there is no like then definitely I will die. So that's why I started praying ahead as okay, now I survived 50 not sure, actually go in for 60. So, on 60 are praying 10 years. What I want to do for next 10 years. So for 60. I'm still alive. I pray next year until 70. Now when I was 70 years old. I'm still alive. So now I'm praying up to 80. We see for another six years, and see what come out began this six years. I'm going to appreciate. And now a book, 1:09:15 house, and they're not a book, the scientific foundation of ancient Chinese secret of youth. Yeah, because that's one, because now what's amazing today, you can get a lot of information verified my modern science, and they can come up very good theory how and why ancient 1:09:37 be able to meet hundred and hundred and 20 years old, but at the same time, ancient time. The average age, only about 40, early 40s is the beginning of the last century the average age for humans is only 47, you think about thousand years ago. How can people leave hungry, that's the most, so that the reason is, is that understand why they can leave so all become from today's face, I can verify that amazing so that's how I start sharing with people, all these my new understanding, I start sharing with people, hopefully will benefit the future for humans.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Make sense. This has been absolutely amazing such wonderful stories and I bet we could go for hours longer we'll have to have you back.
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
I don't know, I'd be dead by then.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, I always ask the guest to choose how we end. So, what last words what final thoughts would you give to the listeners today? What do you want them to take away from our conversation?
Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang:
Don't looking for glory of odds. You like the odds because you like the odds. You like the art. Keep your head bowing down, keep practicing, conquer yourself. Be patient and learn from them slowly, you will understand, then that's one things you know I'd like to get people to understand. The second thing that when they tried to learn martial art, tried to learn the meaning of life, instead of just okay just the martial arts for glory, for fighting, the cage fighting the world. 1:11:18 Yeah, so a lot of things, you know no thing is for glory, but your life is so short. What are you looking for the kind of glory? You see, when I try martial art is not only I feel fulfilling for my life. I feel spiritually, physically, I'm happy. Yeah, even now, I'm happy because since I quit my engineering job. I enjoy my life so much that isn't because I don't care what other people. I care is me. How can I develop? How can I keep my body healthy. Yeah, because my father died at 48. Yeah, but I'm already 74. See, okay, our a winning. So, human average age, now the male is 81. So, if I get over 81. I win. So people they still know when things, take care of themselves, is not only physically, spiritually, in particular, today's one thing I'll tell you one thing, people today in the heaven. 1:12:26 to heaven, but they don't realize 1:12:28. By the way you go through 1960s, like in my life. Today, everything you appreciate. Every bite, every piece of food you put in your mouth. It feels so appreciate. It's not like today I see a lot of kids today, I don't like it so aware 1:12:46 because today they are in the heaven, they don't know they have, because there's no comparison. So they think what they are here, is that hell because they don't think. I think that to me that's a heaven. So, because reason they should understand child 1:13:01 the past to understand how much they had. They always should be appreciate what they have is not say what they don't have. The most important what they have, doesn't make you happy so when you don't have. Don't compare to think about your life, think about how you make your spiritual go higher. Yeah so because inside most spiritual life and physical I evenly the most I had the bags, instead of the physical side, you see today a lot of kids have everything ,1:13:32 card and whatever they do all material things, you ask them, are you happy? No they're not happy, they commit suicide. So thats' why I don't understand. To my generation, lost heaven. Okay, so, I will see I don't know you're always understand that today. But I think the older generation 70 years old, they should know what I say.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What a powerful conversation. What a generous storyteller, man, two great stories. And we had a really good time talking with Dr. Yang, and I hope you'll check out his work. Check out all the things I mean it is not a hard person to find on the internet, let's put it that way and if you're maybe new to his books. Pick them up, check out his novels check out all this great stuff that this man has contributed to us, to the martial artists, the world and to you, sir. Thank you for your time. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing these great stories, I was, I think, transfixed is probably the best work to me minute to think of that one. If you want to see more we've got links and photos and all that at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, every episode gets its own page. Sometimes people post some comments we definitely link to other relevant episodes we put up transcripts once we finish them. It's a whole bunch going on there and if you want to support that work. Remember you can visit the store at whistlekick.com use the code podcast 15 to save 15%. You might also consider buying one of our Amazon books or telling others about the show or supporting us at patreon.com/whistlekick. And if you see somebody out there in the world wearing some of the whistlekick on it. Say hello. Talk to them. Find out how they know whistlekick. Maybe you can share some stories; maybe you make a new friend, or training partner, heck. We all we all need to stick together as martial artists, there's a lot that we can do and you know I think there's a lot that we talked about, or at least I heard about you. We all heard about. On today's episode things that we can do to help make things a little bit better. If you want to reach out by emails jeremy@whistlekick.com and so that's all. Until next time, train hard smile, and have a great day.