Episode 360 - Sifu Glen Doyle
Sifu Glen Doyle is a martial arts practitioner and instructor. He is a former Kung Fu champion and practices Irish Martial Arts.
There's a sense of comfort that you get right away when you cross over certain martial arts...
Sifu Glen Doyle - Episode 360
Sifu Glen Doyle
Learning how to fight is sometimes instilled into us on a very early age. Sifu Glen Doyle learned boxing as soon as he began speaking because of his father. Later on, he would turn into martial arts such as Kung Fu and stick fighting. What makes Sifu Doyle special is that he practices Irish Martial Arts traditions that are part of his roots. Sifu Glen Doyle has a lot to tell so, listen to find out more!
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below or download here.
Hello and welcome to this show. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio episode 360. Today, I'm joined by Sifu Glen Doyle. My name is Jeremy. I'm the founder at whistlekick. I'm your host on the show. And martial arts is a huge part of my life. So huge that it became my career. You can check out all the things that we work on at whistlekick. Many of those things, I am personally involved in over at whistlekick.com. Don't forget. If you buy something, use the code PODCAST15. Save this 15%. It's a thank you from us to you and honestly, lets us know that this podcast is worth doing. Because let's face it. This is a business and we've got to make some money somewhere because I need to it. Not a lot but I do need to eat something.Here we are, 360 episodes in and we're still finding new martial arts to talk about. Did you know that there were Irish martial arts traditions? Well, today's guest not only has family lineage through Irish martial arts but also something that most of us would consider more contemporary, more conventional in that Kung Fu. So, we not only get to talk about each of those arts but the contrasts, the similarities between the two, and the wonderful story that unfolds as Sifu Doyle talks about his life and his navigation through both of those arts and what it meant to him and his family. So, hold on, listen, and learn something. Sifu Doyle, welcome to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio.G
len Doyle:
Thank you very much. Happy to be here.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm happy to have you here. Now, listeners, this was one we were chatting just before we started the episode that I think we were both afraid that this might be the episode that didn't happen. There were a number of power outages on both ends. It was crazy. I've had issues with losing power here. I've has issues with guests losing power there. I don't think we've ever had an episode scheduled for a time where both sides lost power.
Glen Doyle:
I like to respond like an echo.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Awesome. But we're here now and I appreciate your flexibility in rescheduling. I've been looking forward to talking to you.
Glen Doyle:
My pleasure, my pleasure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Great. Well, let's start the way we start a martial arts show. We need some background. We need some basics. We need to learn how to make a fist and punch as it were with who you are. So, how did you find martial arts?Glen Doyle:
Well, I mean, I was more or less, not to sound melodramatic, but I was kind of born into it. My dad was a boxer. And he boxed for a number of years. Mostly when he was in the Canadian Armed Forces but he was always boxing. And so, he started me whether I wanted to or not. In 1969, when I was 4 years old, he put on the boxing gloves and I got my first lesson. And it went on till however long dad was alive. He started me boxing and then in 1972, he started me in stick fighting. And then I wanted to branch out and learn other styles and stuff. So, in and around 1981, I branched out and joined a Chinese Kung Fu club in Toronto. And I stayed with that club until my Sifu, Sifu Lore King Hong, passed away in 2008. So basically, from 1969 to present has been my martial arts path. But I got basically involved in it with my dad started punching at me and didn't give me a choice but to punch back, so.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Wow. All right. So, you've got a couple of different things going on, a few different martial arts.
Glen Doyle:
Uh-hum.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And one of the things that I find personally fascinating is how people start to relate those back to each other.
Glen Doyle:
Right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, what does that look like for you?
Glen Doyle:
Well, I mean, you could... If I go into boxing and if comparing boxing in Gung Fu, a punch is a punch. No matter how you do it, it's just going to be a different way of explaining with or a different way of executing it. But the end result is the same - you're trying to hit something. The comparisons that I always was a little more interested in was the stick fighting style that my dad taught me was from our family. It's an Irish stick fighting style. And when I branched out and explored the other martial arts, be into Gung Fu and then I dabbled in some Filipino stick fighting, I just thought it was really interesting the geographically, the two countries - Ireland and Philippines - are so far apart. But when you put a stick in a hand, there's going to be some principles that are going to be very similar and some are going to be completely different. So, I was always amazed at the way the footwork might be explained differently but the end result's the same. And sometimes, the footwork looks almost the same. So, it reiterates and it just emphasizes to me that if you've got 2 legs and 2 arms or you're basically a human being, you're only going to move a certain way so many times or a certain way so many different times and things are going to crossover. So, as a martial artist, when I branched out into other arts that weren't culturally the same as mine, there was a nice kind of camaraderie built up in my mind right away. Because it was like, wow, this isn't so different. I'm not in such a foreign land after all. This is great. And there's a sense of comfort that you get right away when you crossover certain martial arts. When you find the similarities, it's like you're home but you're not. You're on the road but your home is... It's like when you go travelling, you take a big suit case and you want to have a lot of your stuff around you even though you're in a bizarre place or a different place because you have that bit of that comfort, because you've got some items from your home that make you feel a little more comfortable. And I think, when you crossover two different martial arts together, that familiarity is what makes you feel comfortable and allows you to really open your learning curve and really kind of accept the techniques more readily, more instinctively rather than just kind of forcing a square peg into a round hole. If that makes any sense.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It certainly does. I've spent a bit of time doing some Filipino stick work and I would imagine that 90% of the folks listening who have engaged in stick work have done it through some kind of Filipino Eskrima or Arnis, you know, Southeast Asian tradition.
Glen Doyle:
Uh-hum.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You said that you had done some sort. Are you able to relate to us the... I expect a lot of similarities but where are the differences?
Glen Doyle:
Well, I mean, the Filipino style that I dabbled in - when I say dabbled, please understand, I'm not professing that I studied it a long time or I'm really super-efficient
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure, sure.
Glen Doyle:
But I dabbled in it and the fact that I did often on for a number of years because one of the instructors at the Kung Fu club that I was training was from Cebu City in the Philippines.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Uh-hum
Glen Doyle:
And anytime he was teaching a class, if I had the time to do it, I would jump in and play around with it. It was called Arnis. It was... That's crazy. Just falling out of my head now.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's okay.
Glen Doyle:
Lapunti Arnis De Abanico, there you go. Sorry. And Abanico, I believe, is fan style if I'm not mistaken. And it's a single-hand stick fighting style. Which is the biggest difference between what I was taught with from dad which was two-handed. And the stick is a lot longer in the Irish system, a little heavier because the blackthorn is a heavier wood. Where the Filipino system is using the rattan. A lot of whirling strikes in the Filipino systems are very fast, explosive. And I found that I like the way that the multiple quick hits, the rapid hits in the Filipino system is something I really love. They were so different from the Irish stuff. So, I was like a kid in the candy store when I first played around with it, so.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Nice. It almost... You know, I have some Irish roots. In fact, my father lives to the south side of Cork. I've used some blackthorn sticks. They're durable, they're heavy. So, is the stick fighting tradition that you come from, that you're passing on, is there some synergy there with bladed weapons?
Glen Doyle:
No.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay.
Glen Doyle:
The only connection to bladed weapons is... Basically, the Irish stick fighting came to be simply because of penal laws and whatnot. Irish citizens especially the peasants weren't allowed access to weapons. A lot of Irish men fought in foreign armies in the 1700s or 1800s. And they learned fencing, they learned sword playing with foreign armies. So, when they came back, that's all they had to drop on. But because they didn't have access to bladed weapons, they used stick. And they had to adapt the slashing and stabbing motions for more thumping and striking. So, the only kind of influence in any kind of bladed weapon would be the way the system was approached. Because all, at one point, all Irish stick fighting systems for one-handed based on sword fight but with a stick in your hand. And then somewhere in my family line, my great great great great great uncle, I think it go back five or six generations, he was a pugilist and he decided to put two hands on stick. And the stick was then parallel to the ground, horizontal. And it changed the way we approach the stick fighting. So, any kind of access or comparison to bladed weapons kind of really disappeared when that happened. And now, the pugilist of the boxing influence kind of took over. It became a much more close quarter kind of thing. We had to get in close. Which when you have a stick, you want to keep the opponent on the end of your stick. So, you want to have them on that last six or eight inches for maximum velocity. And then here's something my dad taught me where it's like close in, close in. But I have this long stick why do I have to close in? But that would probably be the only... If I could really say any kind of bladed. But there's no other weapons in the system I learned from my dad. It's just the blackthorn. That's it. No knives, no nothing else. So. Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay. Interesting. I'm going to have to find some video. Do you have a video? Is there a video of this thing?
Glen Doyle:
Yeah. I have a bunch of stuff up on YouTube.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay, cool.
Glen Doyle:
Just the live stuff; me teaching some seminars. It's not instructional.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay.
Glen Doyle:
It's just in a collage fed to some music. I had a website for a while when... I had to get permission from my dad to teach it outside the family. And that was the whole story itself. And I had website up. It just had pictures on it. And I got a lot of emails and a lot of communicational people. You can't tell much from a picture. You can only tell so much. And a lot of the feedback, I'm not going to go into it, was oh my god, this to this and I would do this and it was all this kind of stuff. And I just kind of let it roll off my back for a couple of years. And then I said, you know what? Maybe I'll just put something I knew just so people can see the motion and the movement. And maybe that will help them understand the pictures they're seeing. So, I put up a couple of videos. And it was the exact opposite type of feedback. I've got people like oh, that's how it works. And it was definitely the right thing to do. Because you kind of got to see the style to understand it. And then now, I find that people are really... It really launches more questions but they're more listening with excitement rather than derision.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Uh-hum.
Glen Doyle:
And it was all because I put a few videos up. So, I did that just so people can get a sense of how it looked and how it moved. And I find a lot of Filipino stick fighters actually are the most interested. They love watching it and they make their observations and similarities pop up and the differences. It's usually a really nice interaction when I talk Filipino stick fighters. They usually have really interesting questions about certain techniques and the style, and how this came to be and how that can be. And then, of course, they'll bring up wow, it's very similar to what we do. And then it's kind of like 2 kids talking over a couple of toys that they have that are very similar, right? So.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Glen Doyle:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And those are some of my favorite conversations with martial artists. And I think those conversations are more enlightening, more productive, more enjoyable when you start from a place of similarity.
Glen Doyle:
Of course. Yes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Rather than a place of difference. And I mean, I can... I'm trying to think of something that I haven't done martial arts-wise. Kung Fu might be the furthest from what I've done as a complete style. But I can sit down and I can talk with a Kung Fu practitioner and we can start from what do we have in common? We can have a lot of fun. We can maybe even share, spar, and have a good time. Or we can start from differences which tend to be philosophical and that doesn't help anybody.
Glen Doyle:
No. Usually... Well, it sets the tone, right? Because I think when you come from a place of similarity, then the camaraderie is built right in. If you come from a sense of difference, there's always this little underlying tone of are you saying your style is better?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Glen Doyle:
Because it's so different? I mean, I've studied this. I know my style really well. Why are you saying yours is better? And it's like, you're not saying that but if you're coming at them from the differences, people tend to lean towards that. It seems to be kind of human nature. Well, what's wrong with my style? What do you mean your style's different? What do are you saying? When you come at the other person from the point of wow, and we do this. It's very similar to what you do. All of a sudden, they listen with their ears wide open rather than looking for reasons to be offended, right? That's been kind of my take on it. And when I teach seminars, I always have my opening speech and I always say, I don't denigrate or take away from any other style. And I always say that I'm saying that we do it this way. I'm not saying it's better or worse than what you do. I'm just saying you're different. And that seems to really actually set the tone for the seminar and I knock on wood. I haven't had any issues at this point, so.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's great.
Glen Doyle:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Good. We'll make sure to link the YouTube channel over on the show notes for this. And for folks that might be new, if you came in, if this is your first episode, we put the show notes at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. Now you, a few minutes ago, mentioned a conversation that you had to have with your father to get permission to teach this stick fighting style outside of the family. Would you be willing to share that?
Glen Doyle:
Sure, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What that was about?
Glen Doyle:
Yeah. Well, I mean, this system was only passed on through family. So, you had to have the surname Doyle to learn it. And they were very strict about that. In Irish traditions, oral tradition is very, very predominant in Irish culture. A lot of times it's because the occupying forces wanted to kind of diffuse the culture, they wanted to stop the language. Anything to do with individuality or priding your country or where you're from, they want to kind of take that away. You know what I mean? And so to preserve certain cultural aspects of the country, a lot of things were taught in secret or behind closed doors or secret meetings and whatnot. And that include language and music and whatnot. So, the stick fighting was no different and it was passed on father to son, through family. And if you didn't have the last name Doyle, you didn't learn it. And because the stick fighting stuff could differentiate between families. It could differentiate between counties or towns. So, you could have a town that have one stick fighting style. You could have a county that didn't have the factions from like Tipperary and from Wicklow and Wexford and whatnot. You had the Yellow Bellies, you had the 18:01 There's a bunch of names that you could... So, they would have a similar style. But anyway, so, ours was based on family name and it was passed on. My dad was very strict about it. When he taught it to me, we spend most of our weekends. He had a full-time job as an iron worker. So, he didn't have a lot of time during the week. But on the weekends, we'd be doing the boxing and the sticks. And he would always reiterate, this is ours and keep to yourself kind of thing. And eventually, after being in the Kung Fu club for a number of time, my Chinese Kung Fu instructor, Sifu Lore, he was so open because he wanted to share his culture with everyone. And he was amazing that way. And it really rubbed off on me. So, I started saying to my dad, this is such a cool little system and I'm your only son and you're teaching it to me. But if I walk down the street tomorrow and get hit by a car and get killed, it's done. It's gone. And that really bothered me. So, I started asking my dad in the early '90s. Can I start showing some guys down at the club just some stuff? And he was adamant; no. And my dad... To give you a sense of my dad, to see and get his kind of mindset, the way he was, just a little capsule thing of his personality, he forged my granddad's signature to join the Canadian military when he was 16. I lied about his age. And he spent his 17th and 18th birthdays on the frontlines in Korea.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Wow.
Glen Doyle:
And he summed up his personality with this - I'm going to keep it clean for the listeners...
Jeremy Lesniak:
For sure.
Glen Doyle:
And if it's offensive to some people, I do apologize. But it was what he said to me. Because he was really a hard man and I always used to say to him, you're really hard to people. You speak your mind so you come off rough. And he said, you have to understand me because I killed my first man before I ever slept with my first woman. And that kind of summed up my dad for me. And I mean, there's no part of my... And you can edit that out, too, if it's not appropriate. I have no...
Jeremy Lesniak:
No, absolutely not. I think that's pretty important.
Glen Doyle:
It really set his tone for me. Because I can't even wrap my head around that. No matter much I tried. That sense of what he must have went through at 16, 17, and 18 years of age. I always gave him a wide berth after that. I always try to step back and understand because he was very straight-edge. He was very straightforward and he said what he said. If you didn't like it, he really didn't care. So, going back to saying dad, I really want to kind of share it with some other guys at the club, just a few guys at the club, my closest friends. No. He was adamant. And then in late 1997 or early 1998, he got diagnosed with metastatic colon cancer. And he was only given a couple of months. And we spent all the time together. I was very, very fortunate that I got to do everything I needed to do for closure. And the fact that I got to have my last talk with him, I got to hold his hand, I was there when he took his last breath. I mean, the relationship that I had with my dad, if I wasn't there, it probably would have driven me insane that I didn't get the goodbye. So, I was very fortunate that I was allowed to share those times. And we talked about a lot of things. And the one thing I brought up again was I really wanted to teach this outside the family. I don't have any children of my own. So, again, the style is endangered of just becoming extinct if I pass on and don't teach anyone. And it took a lot of talking but finally, near our last talk, before he went onto morphine and couldn't talk anymore because he's in so much pain, he finally gave me permission. And if he had not, you and I would be having a completely different conversation right now and we'd just be talking about Kung Fu. So, yeah. I was very grateful that he eventually relented. Now, do I think he was happy about it? I couldn't really say. But all I know is he did give permission. And whether it was his last act of love or not, I don't know. But at the end of the day, he gave me his permission to teach it outside the family. And after, we had his service and I had his ashes and I spread his ashes over our land. We're from Newfoundland originally. And I started to slowly get the style out there. I mean, I had an interview with Inside Kung Fu and I think it was 1995. And I got into the moment. The new journalist was really, really good. He really played me really well, for lack of a better term. And I blurted out the Irish stick fighting. And then I immediately stopped talking about it. But he didn't mention it in the article. And the bullyrag that I got from my dad about that, let me tell you, that went on for a couple of years. So, I learned my lesson. But yeah. He basically gave me permission just before he passed away. So, there's a sentimentality there when I teach as well. It's like he's in the room with me, which I love. And it helps me cope. I mean, he's been gone since '98. But it just doesn't seem like... It seems like yesterday to me. I still think about him all the time. And the sticks is a way for me to kind of revisit our time together and stuff. So, there's a real emotional sentimentality to me teaching it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now, when... Those of us that came up in... I guess I think of it as Asian traditions. When I think of the 24:25 Kung Fu style or Karate style, quite often, there's a family dynamic.
Glen Doyle:
Uh-hum.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Some kind of splinter there. But I haven't had the opportunity to speak with someone who came from that close-guarded family tradition of a martial arts. So, forgive me as I'm asking you some of these questions that I've always wondered knowing that you don't speak for everyone. But you're the best I have.
Glen Doyle:
Okay. No problem.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Why? Why was your father so resistant to people learning this family style?
Glen Doyle:
I think it was just the cultural way. It was just cultural and the way he was raised. Again, with it being guarded and not wanting to basically... Like self-preservation, really. I mean, you always want that. If everybody knows your style, then the percentages of being able to counter you go up.
Jeremy Lesniak:
True.
Glen Doyle:
And every system that you ever come across is one-handed. And now suddenly, you come up against this guy and all of a sudden, he starts one-handed and drops his stick into his other hand. And he comes at you from a pugilistic horizontal base stick pattern. It's going to throw you. And I think, that element of surprise ups the success factor. So, I think it was a combination of it was tradition - it was the way he was taught. And my granddad was probably exactly my dad, a no nonsense Irish man. Do what I say and don't question me. And I think that coupled with the fact that technically, you'd like to have a surprise or two in your back pocket. I think the combination of those two things in the formula is probably why he was still adamant. Because when I would explain to my dad how if Sifu Lore said, oh I only teach Chinese, I wouldn't have been learning this amazing stuff that he was teaching me. I could see my dad understanding what I was saying. But the stubbornness of no, we don't share it because of whatever reason. I could see there was a wall up for the longest time. And I'd be lying to you if I said I understood it. But it's just I think it was, for lack of a better term, the programming. It was just the way he was raised. And he kept it without being... What's the word? Not pure but he just didn't want... He wanted it untainted. And when you get a style and you put it out into the public domain, it gets changed right away. People are going to adapt it to what they think the movement should be or the way they would do it or strategically how they think it works for them. And all of a sudden, the style ceases to become that movement or that way of executing a technique that's been passed on for generation to generation. And it means he was big on not changing the techniques. Because, like my dad said, the system was... And I think he was talking about all fighting systems. But when he's pertaining to our sticks, as he said, he was born on a battlefield. And through evolution and through faction fights, techniques that didn't work, you got your head bashed in. You knew if they didn't work, they didn't get passed on. And he said, nowadays, everybody likes to change everything. But most of the people changing the styles aren't haven't fought to save their lives. It's theory or they got padded equipment on. So, they're not getting punished for their mistakes or it's a game of tag. And again, I'm not coming down on anybody who spars or anything like that. It’s not what I'm saying. I'm saying what he said to me. And he said, why would you change something that has been proven? But because here in modern day society, now it's like well, this is faster or flashier and whatnot. But it's just a theory. I think, for of the thing he was worried at, if I put it out there into the general populace, it was going to get changed a lot. But it would still have our name on it. And he said, if someone changes it and the technique doesn't work, it still got our name on it. And they go out and try to use the technique and they get their head bashed in, well our name takes the hit. So, that was kind of his kind of approach. And I think that's one of the reasons he was really adamant aside from the fact that it was tradition that it was just taught to Doyles. And I think he wanted something to pass onto his son that was just for me, I guess. There could have been a father-son dynamic there that I wasn't picking up on. Because I was all about this. I loved it so much, I just wanted to share it with everyone. A little bit of family pride, and pride is a double edged-sword.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It certainly is.
Glen Doyle:
And so I think that maybe he was trying to dissuade me from that. And I've been teaching it outside the family now since just after he passed away. So, it's been about 20 years and all the stuff he said has happened. It’s been changed, it's been this, it's been that. So, he wasn't wrong. I've had to lock away and discontinue associations with a lot of people because of what happened. That dad said would, sadly. So, I have to kind of give my hat to him because he wasn't wrong. But on the other side of the coin is, I've met some amazing people that passed it on and they're amazing. So, on the other side of the coin, I was right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right. Can you talk a little bit more about the stuff he was right about? I'm not asking you to name names or identify anything so clearly that people could infer names.
Glen Doyle:
Yeah. No, no. I wouldn't do that anyway. But it just... basically, what would happen is a lot of people would come under the guise of oh, I want to learn it the way you learned it. I wanted to stay traditional and I want to learn and then pass it on and whatnot. And really, all what they wanted to do was they wanted to up the 31:16 of their school by saying they offer Irish stick fighting. So, it was more of a business thing. And what they would do is, they would just take certain elements that they like from the system. And they would incorporate it to what they already taught. So, if I did a numbered system... So, let's say I taught a sequence or there's a technique that, let's say, has five movements in a sequence - I'll try to be really kind of basic here - and we go move it 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. And they take the movement. Well, movement 1 and 2 would be from the Doyle system and then movement 3, 4 and 5 would be from where that they learn. So, it would become a hybrid and it would get infused. And then what happens is it started to... Then the people, they taught would then change it a little bit when they start it. So, two or three lessons down the road, it didn't even look anything like what I have taught them. Yet it still had our family name on it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Glen Doyle:
And you'll see it. If you search Doyle stick fighting, you'll find a number of videos on YouTube aside from mine and you'll see. If you have martial arts eyes, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. And I don't deny anybody that I trained. If someone wrote to me and said, blah, blah, blah, says this and I will not lie. I'll say yup, he learned under me. But I will also say, but he has changed it a little bit. So, the stuff he's teaching is influenced or has a flavor of what I taught. But it's more of what they've done to hybridize it. So, I'm very honest but I don't deny anybody I've ever worked with. Even if I no longer teach them, I will still say yup, they learned under me. They came to a seminar. I'm not going to cut off my connection to them that way because I don't think that's fair. They did put in the time. I just want to try to keep the style out there the way it was taught to me. So, if somebody comes to me or goes to somebody and wants to learn what was taught back in Ireland, hopefully, they can find somebody who does that. Not somebody's version of a version of version 33:37
Jeremy Lesniak:
Makes complete sense.
Glen Doyle:
Because some people want that. They want that authentic style. Some people really do. And others are fine with learning the hybrid stuff. They're fine with it and that's all fair to them. I have no problem with that. But when your name's attached to it, when your family... And again, because of the sentimentality and emotional connection to my dad, I won't lie. There's a little chip on my shoulder about it. Some days it bothers more than others. But I've learned to live with it now. And now, when I teach, I'm very particular hen I teach one-on-one in person. I just started doing an online course on video. I'm going to test that out and see how that plays out. But I don't want to... Because of a couple of bad experiences, I don't want to just say I'm not teaching anyone. Because that defeats the purpose as well. I don't think that's fair to people who want to learn it. So, I'm trying to find that. It's like you're trying to walk that tightrope, right? And you’re going to have to make some concessions which I learned that I had to. And at the same time, every once in a while you're going to find that one or two or three or four people that are just going to take it the way it was given to you and they're going to treat it that way. And they're going to make sure it stays authentic and how it was passed in. And those are the victories that I take. And then all the other ones, I've got to spend some time with different people and different personalities and I choose to take the positive away rather than the negative. Because if I keep the negative, man, I'll just be the grumpiest person in the world. And I don't want that. So.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I get it. I get it. Now, I can completely see what you're talking about. It makes a lot of sense.
Glen Doyle:
Yeah. I mean...
Jeremy Lesniak:
The idea that it's not just a martial art. It's your lineage. It's your tie to your father and so many things. And I don't think anyone else is going to fully embrace that even if they intellectually understand it.
Glen Doyle:
Yeah. It's a... It's tough to put into words. And when it first started to get changed and whatnot, I was livid. And I have the Irish temper like everybody else in the family. My initial reactions were very cutting off the nose to spite my face kind of thing. And then I learned that that's not going to do anything and I have to kind of adapt and take more of a philosophical approach to it. Just see where they were coming from and walk a mile on their shoes just to kind of wrap my head around it. And then it kind of eased the blow a little bit. If that makes any sense.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure does.
Glen Doyle:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now, I'm sure that you almost have walls up to make sure that the Kung Fu is not influencing the stick fighting. But I'm guessing that you don't have the same rule go in the other way. So, how does the stick fighting influence your Kung Fu?
Glen Doyle:
Again, going back to the beginning when we started talking, the thing about the stick and the Kung Fu, it was all about the similarities. But also, the way I teach the sticks, my dad was very... He taught what he felt like that day. He had a system. He had an agenda of how to teach it but it wasn't so evident. Like I think he would get me to go over some stuff that he taught me the week before and they based on what I did incorrectly or what I did correctly, that would shape what we work on that day. When I started to teach it, I found that the way I taught it was very much influenced by the way I learned Kung Fu. Meaning, you learn your stances. You learn your foundations, boom, boom, boom, boom. When my dad taught me, I got stances and whatnot. But he got me into the stick punches, then he got me into what the hand was doing. And I know I'm using a lot of terms that people are kind of not going to understand because they don't 38:05 the style. But he got me chasing the stick and crashing the gates and all these things. But I think, if he had more of a system in place, I probably would have learned it quicker because it took a while. Because, I mean, I was only 7 years old when I started, right? But I find that the Kung Fu influenced me in the way I taught the stick. Because I, for a lack of a better word, I systematized it in the fact that I did stances fist, all footwork, footwork, footwork. Because dad was really big on footwork. But I think, even though he was big on footwork, he kept throwing other things at me just to kind of keep the ball rolling. In his mind, I was learning at a pace that he was happy with. Whereas when I teach, if you don't get your stances and you footwork, you're not learning anything else. You're going to be holding the stick forever doing nothing with it because it's all going to be from the waist down. And that's very Kung Fu - stances, stances, stances. Strong horse, strong punch - that's it. That's the two things you need before you do anything else. And I got to that point when I taught. The similarities between the footwork was very interesting because we have a thing in our style... Because it comes from fencing footwork initially. And then with the boxing influence, the heels are a little different and we step down heel-toe and then we really calmly drag the back leg when we were dancing. And I found... It's so amazing because in the Hung Gar style of Gung Fu that I learned, it's almost exactly the same. When you step from a cat stance, you step down heel-toe and then you pop back into your horse stance. And if I had to explain, the stepping in the Irish stick fighting and the stepping in Kung Fu, if I use heel-toe-drag, it works the exact same for both styles. So, the influence, if you want to use that term, was all about the similarities. The Kung Fu wouldn't give influence anything technically in sticks. Because I wanted to make sure that the way it was passed onto me, I pass on to other people. So, I very evident about that. But I did use the way of explaining Kung Fu, the way that Kung Fu was taught to me, I did let that influence the way I explain the sticks. So, I hope I'm makings sense the way I put that out for you there. I have a tendency to be quite verbose and quite 40:50 And then at the end of the five minutes, people go, I didn't understand a damn thing you just said. So.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, as you were talking, I'm doing it.
Glen Doyle:
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm taking those steps. And yeah, I can certainly see the similarities there. My experience with two-handed weapons is limited to Japanese style sword and very little. But the footwork there from what I was taught sounds very similar to what you're describing, so.
Glen Doyle:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Makes all kind of sense.
Glen Doyle:
Yeah. But I'll do, Jeremy, when we get off, I will send you some video links of me actually teaching.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, perfect.
Glen Doyle:
Just for you. I'll just send it for you.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure. I would watch them
Glen Doyle:
In that way, you can see what we're talking about. I don't think it's going to... I think you're getting what I'm saying but I think if you see the way I teach it, you'll go oh, okay. So, I'll do that for you. I know right now, the listeners are like what about us? But you get special treatment, so.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, I appreciate that. I've been doing all the work here, so.
Glen Doyle:
There you go.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You and I are doing the work. Listeners, they just get to enjoy all of this. Cool. All right. Well, when you look at this - how do I want to call it - this hybridized martial arts mindset that has become you and these various influences that you have.
Glen Doyle:
Yup.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's pretty clear how important your father was. I mean, he started you and gave you this foundation and you've added to it and expanded it. But what would you want to add on? If there was someone that you could train with that you haven't, who would that be?
Glen Doyle:
You mean living or dead? Or just living?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Living or dead. Anywhere in the world, anywhere in time.
Glen Doyle:
My dad was very much influenced by Jack Dempsey.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay.
Glen Doyle:
So, I would say probably Jack Dempsey for a couple of reasons. One, because of my dad's movement was very much like Jack Dempsey. Because he was a big Jack Dempsey fan and also because of the boxing. But also, Jack Dempsey was quite an interesting person because... I don't know if a lot of people know this but I believe he was in the coast guard, if I'm not mistaken. Now, I could be mistaken about that. And if I am, I apologize. But I know he was in service in some point and I think it was the coast guard. But he taught a lot of self-defense stuff. It wasn't just boxing. It was knees and elbows and whatnot. So, he was a very, very well-rounded. And I think he would just be an amazing person to train with. Simply because he's almost what I would say a similar thing to what I do is that he's got the boxing but then on the other side of the coin, he had the other fighting techniques that were, if you want to call them, street or a little more lower body and upper body. Because with the knees and strikes and the elbows and whatnot. So, I think he would be an amazing person to train with. I would love to talk to him about his mindset. Because he had that ever forward kind of attack. And when my dad used to teach the sticks, he's always going to say that phrase - ever forward, ever forward. So, just on that alone, I think that would be my choice. I would love to go train with him and just to pick his brain and just to see how he saw the martial world, and see how he would approach it. So, that would be my answer.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Nice. I'm sure from your time training and travelling, teaching - whether it's your own students or seminars - you've got a lot of stories. What's your favorite one? It can be sad, it can be happy, it can be funny. I love the stories that martial artists have and that's really the root of this show. It was I just want an excuse to get people to tell me their stories. So, what's yours?
Glen Doyle:
Wow. Can I get a tone for the story? Do you want a story of me learning from someone or do you want me teaching someone?
Jeremy Lesniak:
The one that... So, here's the set up. You and I are at a barbecue and we find out that we're both martial artists.
Glen Doyle:
Uh-hum.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We're sharing a beer, whiskey or whatever.
Glen Doyle:
Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I tell you about the ridiculous time that Bill Wallace kicked me in the ear and said some horribly inappropriate things.
Glen Doyle:
Bill Wallace kicked you in the ear, too?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, yeah. And I cannot repeat what he said on the air because it's that terrible. I'll tell you after. So, there's that story. And you're trying to meet me or one up me with one of your ridiculous or fun or impressive stories from your time. So, what would that story be?
Glen Doyle:
Well, first of all, just let me say that I, too, have been kicked in the ear by Mr. Wallace. So.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's a great club to be in, isn't it?
Glen Doyle:
Yeah. He... I was in Quebec at the Capital Conquest. I was teaching there and it was the first time I met him. He's an amazing man, don't get me wrong. But yeah. He just targeted me for the whole weekend. I don't know what I did but he would not leave me alone. And the sick part of me kind liked the attention but man, it was an interesting thing. So, we have that to share, you and I. Just wanted to say that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well, that's... I train with Mr. Wallace now.
Glen Doyle:
Okay. I don't know if he remembers me. But if you say my name...
Jeremy Lesniak:
He probably does.
Glen Doyle:
... in Quebec Capital Conquest.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Glen Doyle:
You can see if here remembers me. He might not but.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I bet he does because I've seen his memory in action. And it is impressive. This is for you as well as everyone else listening, when he pulls someone up, he's gotten very good over his years at identifying who's going to be a great training partner or a great Uke. Someone who will play along, who has the right sense of humor but also has enough skill for him to work with in his demonstrations. So, it is an amazing compliment across multiple factors when he pulls you up.
Glen Doyle:
Yeah. Oh, well that's... I'll take that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. As you should.
Glen Doyle:
Man. I mean, there's two stories that I'd love to tell only because I think they really shape me as the instructor that I am. So, maybe that is something you're interested in. And it's interesting because, like I said, I have my two main instructors. I have my dad and I have Sifu Lore. And I have kind of one story from each. So, would you like me to just pick one?Jeremy Lesniak:
You can tell both.
Glen Doyle:
Okay. The first is my dad. And this was when I was young, and I never forgot this. Because I thought at that moment he was the meanest man in the world. And then looking back on it now, it's an amazing thing. But I was in elementary school. I believe I was in grade 4, maybe grade 5, and for some reason... A little bit about me for people, because people don't know me, my mom is like 4'11". My dad was 5'3". So, I'm 5'4". I'm a giant in my family. But anyway, I was little. I was a really little kid. So, grade 4 or grade 5. And for some reason, this kid in grade 8 just didn't like me and was giving me some grief after school. But I was fast, like I could run really, really fast. So, school ended. The bell ran and off I went. I live about 6 blocks from the school. So, I was full out sprint. Jesse Owens would be looking at me going, not bad. Like I was gone. And I got home and he couldn't catch me. He was close but he didn't catch me. I got in and my dad was home. He shouldn't have been but he was home because he got rained out. Because, like I said, he was an iron worker. If the weather's too rough, they don't connect the beams up high. So, he was home early. I came in huffing and puffing. He asked me what happened. And I said, oh this boy at school wanted to beat me up but don't worry, I got away. And without a word, he got up and grabbed me by the back of the head, took me outside where the bully was still there, made me stand up to this guy. And of course, I got my butt handed to me. But when my dad figured that I had enough, he stopped it and took me in. And I felt so betrayed and so angry that my dad would do that to me. And he just looked at me and said, you run today, you're going to run tomorrow, you're going to run for the rest of your life. No running. And in retrospect now, I think that was something that I took very, very literally. And it shaped me to who I am. Well, I hated it at that time. I think I'm probably the most grateful for that lesson and all the lessons he's ever taught. So, that's the story about my dad and not funnier or humorous but life-changing. And for Sifu Lore, do you remember in China when they had the Tiananmen Square stuff going on?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, absolutely.
Glen Doyle:
Well, they had a big vigil in Toronto which is where I train, where the club is. And Toronto is interesting because it has a number of Chinatowns. So, not just one Chinatown. Toronto has a bunch of them. They kind of pop up. And the main ones aren't Spadina and Dundas. And the old China town - and again, if people don't know Toronto, this is not really going to be a good reference but it's close to where city hall is. And it's called Old Chinatown. And in the '80s, it was slowly shrinking. And the big Chinatown about 10 blocks away in a place called Spadina and Dundas was going to be the main big Chinatown. But anyway, they were having a big vigil at the city hall for the Tienanmen Square. And the Chinese community, because our club was so involved in the Chinese community, they hired us to do kind of a crowd control. Because they were expecting a lot of people and they expected them to be passionate. So, we were there. I didn't want to say security but that's technically what we were, right? But we're there just to make sure that nothing got out of hand. So, Sifu got us all together. We all went down. It was a lot of people there. It was a big, big gathering. Everybody had candles and whatnot. And so, at this point, I'm in my late teens or early 20s and we all were. We're all like young studs, young bucks. So, we're all faced around this one section and the speech has start. And there's on guy in the crowd starts to get really passionate and wants to go up and speak. So, he tries to push his way up to the stage. And Sifu's sitting there and he loved his Tim Horton's coffee. It's a rule in Canada, you have to love your Tim Horton's coffee. But anyway, he was having his coffee. And this guy was really, really passionate. He's like, I want to go up there and speak. He's saying this in Chinese. I didn't know what he was saying but I could tell by his body language that he was getting very, very aggressive. So here, all of us, these young bucks full of piss and vinegar, we do Kung Fu, we're awesome, we're going to just... We're just going to be right out of the movie. We're going to take care of this. People walked up to the guy and at this time, he would probably be late 70s, maybe early 80s. Sifu Lore walked up and he has his coffee in one hand. And he's like, look, you can't go up. And the guy just made this rushing motion. And to be honest, to this day, I blinked and Sifu threw this uppercut out of nowhere. Just enough to knock the guy down. And it diffuses the situation. It was an amazing thing because he just gave him this uppercut out of nowhere. The guy went down. And while the guy is falling, Sifu's trying to explain to him look, you can't go up there. He's still trying to explain to him after he just knocked him. So, anyway, it diffused to take the guy away and whatnot. And we're standing there feeling like the most useless people in the world. Our Sifu who's not exactly a young person took care of this guy. All these young guys are standing around, didn't know what happened. And we looked at... When we went out, one of us said, Sifu, we're so sorry that we didn't do it. And he goes, ah, you know, I'm not a master. I'm not a Kung Fu master. And we were looking at him like, what are you talking about? And he goes, I spilled my coffee! If I was a real Kung Fu master, I wouldn't have spilled a drop. I'm not a master. He was shaking his head. And I found that to be the funniest thing because it really set the tone for Sifu. Because when I joined, and it was a traditional Kung Fu club, he told me call him Jimmy. His English name is Jimmy Lore. His Chinese name is Lore King Hong. And I did it for about a year and it just didn't feel right so I started calling him Sifu. But his attitude towards titles really affected me. So, even though I have a Sifu title, I don't really make people call me that. And I think I get it from that story. Just because he was so innocently casual about ah, I'm not a master. I spilled my coffee. I just... I close my eyes and I can still see it happening. And it really impacted me as a martial arts instructor because his honesty about it was humorous. But at the same time, it was such a raw honesty that I think it really affected me as an instructor where I didn't get so hung up on the titles, and I didn't get so hung up on being perfect. I got more about the execution. And if a technique is meant that you don't get punched and you do it but it's not the way that you learned it but you still don't get punched, it's a good technique. It worked. So, I kind of used that story to justify or explain how I kind of approach sometimes when I teach. Where if, in the heat of the moment, something changes, at least it still worked for you.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Glen Doyle:
So, yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Those are two great stories.
Glen Doyle:
Oh, okay.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Glen Doyle:
I don't know if that's good enough.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Knocks it out of the park. That's what I was looking for.
Glen Doyle:
Yeah, yeah. So, one was a life lesson for me and the other was a lesson on humility and casualness of the additive of the title, I guess. You could class it as56:13
Jeremy Lesniak:
Undoubtedly. Now, what's keeping you motivated? What are you looking forward to as you look out over life? I'm assuming you're not planning to stop training.
Glen Doyle:
No. I had to stop training for a number of years in 2012, 2013. It's nothing to do with training. It's an out of training injury. It's more hereditary. But my shoulders, I have this thing called frozen shoulder. I don't know if you've ever heard of that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I have.
Glen Doyle:
I got it in my left shoulder and then I got it in my right shoulder. But I have it really bad. But it is genetic. My dad had it in his elbow. He got frozen elbow when he was older. And what would happen was, it came out of nowhere. I went to every person you could think of and no one really knows what causes it. They have theories. But I woke up with it one day... I just woke up with it. Then I had it. I went to bed feeling fine, woke up the next day and my left shoulder, I could barely lift my arm. And it was really debilitating and I couldn't teach. So, I had to... I thought, actually, my teaching was over. I thought my career was over because I couldn't do much with it. And then they say it can last anywhere from a month to two years. And mine lasted the full two because my body is that way. But it started to loosen up. I mean I went to rehab and stuff and it did help a bit. But teaching was really tough. And then as the left one was getting better, it actually moved over to my right. I had to deal with that on my right. So, I only told recently... Like in the last year and a half have I really started teaching again. So, I didn't do a lot of physical stuff because I couldn't move. So, I gained a lot of weight and I'm still happy with where my weight is. So, what I'm looking forward to now is my shoulders are... They're still an issue but I can teach again and whatnot. So, I'm looking forward to using the teaching and my training to try to get back to where I feel a little healthier. So, I'm using it as my motivation but also as my tool to reinvent myself at this age. I'm 53 now. So, I'm just trying to get to a point where I can still teach, do things. But also, just to improve my overall mobility and get my health back to where I want it to be. I mean, I'm not in poor health by any means. There are people on this planet way worse off than me and I feel blessed that I am where I am. But I'm going to use what I learned and what I teach and whatnot to try to use that as the catalyst to get me back to where I want to be physically. So, that's probably where I am right now. And it's been frustrating. It's really a test of my patience and you really try to look at yourself in a different light. When you think something you've had for so long which just suddenly got taken away from you. Because I thought it was gone. I thought my martial art career was done. I really did and I had to embrace that. And it was a pretty dark time for a couple of years. I mean, I'm still coming out of it. I'm still a little... I still have some dark days. When I can't move like I used to, it's frustrating. But there's motivation in frustration if you know where to look. And that's kind of where I'm looking now. So, that's what I'm looking forward to in the future. It's just to get myself back. And also, I haven't given up on wanting to pass my family's stick fighting style on to the world. I still want to do that. And that, again, is why I started the online course. Because it allows me to teach on my good days when my shoulders are really working well and whatnot. Because doing live seminars is great but every once in a while, I get up to do a seminar in some bad days. It's a bad shoulder day like I call it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Glen Doyle:
And it's like, ugh. Because when I go to teach a seminar, I'm all about the people taking the seminar. They're giving up their time for me. They're allowing me to step into their minds and move things around. The way they move physically, the way they move tactically - that is a huge honor. And I never want to misrepresent myself and I never want to take that time with them and not maximize it out so they'd benefit. So, if I book a seminar and then on that day, my shoulders aren't working for me and they only get 50% of what I can do or they only get half of me demonstrating and showing how it's supposed to work, I feel like I let them down. And I don't want to do that. So, I think that's probably why I came up with the online thing. Because I can tape it, I can make sure it's edited in the best way to show the technique, the best way I did it. So, they get that sense. Because I do it like a seminar, obviously, but I'm talking to the camera. But they get to at least see everything I'm talking about. Where in a live seminar, I'm kind of having a bad day, sometimes I have to crossover stuff. And I just don't think that's fair. People are giving their time and their physical availability and, again, allowing me to step into their mind and influence the way they move. They've got to be getting the best part of me, right? So, that, I'm not there yet. So, that's why I really tapered back my live seminars right now. Because I'm not into place physically with my shoulders just yet where I know I can show up and be ready to rock and roll for their benefit. Because, again, I'm all about the people taking the seminar. Because I want them to walk out of that seminar going, that was the best three hours, four hours I've ever spent. I'm not saying that from an egotistical thing where I want them to tell everybody that. I want them to feel that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay, yeah. I get it. Without going too deep, I've experienced not that injury but certainly some injuries that have limited my ability to present information. And I know how frustrating that can be.
Glen Doyle:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
When it's keeping you from multiple goals, your own training, and the ability to pass on your knowledge. I understand that.
Glen Doyle:
Oh, yeah. You shake your fist to the heavens quite a few times.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now, you mentioned this stuff that's coming but you don't have a website. So, what do people do if they want to keep tabs on you and sign up for this course when it's ready or keep up on where your seminars are going to be?
Glen Doyle:
Well, I have a Facebook Group. There's a Doyle Irish Stick Fighting Facebook Group and everybody kind of joins that. And anything I have coming up, I make an announcement there. I do have a website. My website is for me as a whole because I'm writer as well and I really embraced it a lot when my shoulders weren't working so well. So, I write scripts and stuff and I do films and whatnot. So, my website is more of a catchall but there is a page on there that people can write me and contact me and keep tabs on what I'm doing martial arts-wise. I'm a terrible businessman, okay? And I've always have been... I've lost so much money teaching. I'm surprised my wife is still with me but she's an angel. And she puts up with so much.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I apologize for laughing.
Glen Doyle:
No.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You're not the only one.
Glen Doyle:
No, I know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
There's something about martial artists that inherently, we just want to share.
Glen Doyle:
Yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We just want to give it away. We don't want to do it for money.
Glen Doyle:
Yeah. And I've given a lot away. But you know what? I come from that honestly because, again, going back to Sifu Lore, when I joined Jing Mo in 1980... It was '81 crossover. It was in the winter of 1981. It was what we call a Dungeon Club. I don't know if you've ever heard that term. But the only way you join is by knowing someone. It's the old style Chinese club. There's no advertising. If you know a member, you... Now, I came across it by accident. And I was, again, it was near city hall. I was with some friends down at city hall and I've been looking for at martial arts. As usual, I know it sounds really, really stereotypical but I saw a Bruce Lee movie. And I said, wow, I want to do what that guy does. I really want to see what it is. So, I did some research and I found that he did a thing called Kung Fu. So, I said, okay I'm going to try and find Kung Fu. So, I was actively looking for Kung Fu clubs in Toronto and all the ones that I visited, I just... You know when you just don't feel it? I just wasn't feeling it. I went to visit all of them and I just wasn't' feeling it. So, I was kind of oh, maybe the Kung Fu is not what I'll do. Maybe I'll try Taekwondo or an Aikido. There's a bunch of clubs. Toronto had so many to choose from. So, anyway, I was down at city hall with some friends. I was there to try to impress a girl which I failed miserably. And I was going home and I was cutting through this parking lot to get a street cardio home. And from the 2nd floor fire escape, this fire door was open and I heard all of this clanging and banging and this ruckus. And it sounded like a martial art class because people are making noise and whatnot. So, I was like there shouldn't be a club here. There's no markings on the building, there's nothing. But it was at the 2nd floor that there was a fire escape. And it's not the kind that you have to pull out. It was just stairs, just metal stairs. So, I just walked up and took a peek in. And I saw all these guys using these weapons. Some guys were 1:07:06 a heavy bag, some guys were doing hand forms and stuff and I kind of peeked in. And Sifu Lore was sitting, watching everybody and he spotted me. And he's like, hey, what are you doing? I was just startled. I said, sorry I heard what I thought was a martial art class and I was just peeking in. And he told me to come in. And he made me sit down and he made every one of his students do a form for me and show what he taught. I mean, you understand I was in my teens. My hair was long, I look like a punk, really. For lack of a better term. And I couldn't believe that he made all the students do a form for me and I was sold. And then I said I want to join. So, I showed up the next day and I was like... The average price back then when I looked at all the other clubs, again, this was in the '80s, it was about $65 to $70 a month to be a member. And he charged me $10. And I couldn't believe it. I'm like, okay. So, I gave him $10 a month. I trained, I went... It was open every day, seven days a week, from 5 AM to 10 PM everyday. Except on weekends, it was noon to 5 PM. But 5 AM to 10 PM on weekdays. I went everyday, didn't miss a day for six months. It was insane - the amount of training. And then I have finished my first hand form and we were doing a demo, a show for... I forgot what it was for, some event somewhere in Chinatown. And Sifu asked me to do my form that I just learned. And I was said sure, I'll do it. So, that was six months in. So, the next day after doing the show, I came in and I came to pay him. And he goes, no, you're doing so much for me now. You don't pay no more. So, my entire martial art education, my entire martial art Kung Fu education, cost me $60. So, I've come by the giving it away for free, honestly, because I trained with that man till 2008. So, $60 is what I payed for my entire Kung Fu education. It's ridiculous.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sounds like you got a good deal.
Glen Doyle:
Yeah. If you calculated the hours of training, I don't even think... It's like $0.001. Per hour, I don't even know what it would be. But yeah. So, I come across it honestly in that regard. Sorry that I went off some tangent there. But I thought I would share that with you because it was the way I was... It was my experience with Kung Fu. He was such a generous man. And as soon as I started doing shows, he was like, okay. You're sweating for me now. You don't have to pay no more. So, I'm sure that he would giggle at me telling that story. But yeah. It was always tough for me. When I first started teaching, even when I taught women self-defense and whatnot. It was so hard for me to take their money. It almost felt criminal because I was so used to just teaching.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Glen Doyle:
But you got overhead. You've got to pay the bills. The thing with Sifu, because he was so big in the Chinese community, he didn't pay for the space. They just gave it to him. The Chinese communities then. So, he had no overhead. So, it was a little different for him. But you don't kind of factor that in when you're kind of learning. You're just wow, I got all these for $60. And now, I'm charging people all this money to teach what I learned for $60. There's a little bit of guilt there. But I got over it eventually.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't know if I agree with that.
Glen Doyle:
Well, maybe I didn't. But as far as my...
Jeremy Lesniak:
Maybe mostly, halfway.
Glen Doyle:
As far as my wife's concerned, I've got no work, okay? Between you and me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay. All right. I won't tell. I promise. This has been a lot of fun. I've really enjoyed getting to talk to you today and totally worth the wait to reschedule. So, again, thank you for your flexibility.
Glen Doyle:
Thank you so much.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I want to ask just one more kindness if I would.
Glen Doyle:
Sure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What parting words would you offer up to the folks listening today?
Glen Doyle:
Well, I would say... I'm almost paraphrasing my dad to a degree but not so much. If you're taking a martial art, it comes from somewhere. I understand that the current state of mind is new is better, everything needs to be updated. But through evolution and actual life and death experiences, those techniques you're learning have been passed on for a reason. And they belong there because they earned the right to be there. So, maybe just respect the past so much. Don't be into it in an all-fire hurry to change things. Maybe just see how you can adapt them. And the other thing is, don't be just a fighter; be a warrior. And that's the one thing that my dad and Sifu Lore, they said it in different ways but they said the same thing. A fighter is someone who fights to keep themselves safe or to overcome their opponent. But a warrior not only trains for self-preservation but also fights for those who can't fight for themselves. And when you're a martial artist, you're taking on a responsibility from the ages before you, from the generations before you. So, try to be a warrior and always remember that there's people out there that can't fight for themselves. If you have the opportunity to do it in a safe legal way, always try to fight for those who can't fight for themselves. Because it comes with the territory of being a martial artist. Maybe it sounds a little cliché but I think that advice has really kind of rested in my heart. And so, I'd probably say that as my words of wisdom, I guess.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I bet you could tell I had a ton of fun talking to Sifu Doyle. I mean, what a great guy. What great stories. And how powerful it is that he gets to pass on something he loves that is both martial arts and his family? I'll admit. I'm a bit jealous. Thank you sir for coming on the show today. You can find show notes with a bunch of photos and notes and links and other cool stuff at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. If you hit whistlekick.com, you can sign up for the newsletter, you could make a purchase. And don't forget the code PODCAST15 to save 15%. Uniforms, gears, shirts, sweatshirts, sweatpants, water bottles, training journal - there's a bunch of stuff. I just added a bunch of stuff last night. And if you want to just kind of follow all the other stuff that we're doing, social media - YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. We are @whistlekick. My direct email address, jeremy@whistlekick.com. We keep it simple. And I thank you for your time today. Thanks for coming by, for giving me an opportunity to host this show. Until next time. Train hard, smile, and have a great day.