Episode 358 - Sifu Harinder Singh Sabharwal
Sifu Harinder Singh Sabharwal is a martial arts practitioner and instructor in the style of Jeet Kune Do.
Forget about styles and systems, there are always arguments about this style, that style, my master is better than your master. It's just a big waste of time, we're all so much more alike than we are apart.
Sifu Harinder Singh Sabharwal - Episode 358
Traveling the world may be fun when you're on for a vacation but traveling as a kid and not having a home may not be that enjoyable. Sifu Harinder Singh Sabharwal has traveled from India to a lot of countries because of his father's work and then ultimately ending up in California as an adult. As a stranger in a foreign country, his father had him to train martial arts so he's able to defend himself and his love for the art never faded. Sifu Harinder Singh Sabharwal has trained with several styles and today, he is a practitioner and instructor for Jeet Kune Do. Listen to this episode to know more!
Show Notes
Here are some of the books mentioned by Sifu Sifu Harinder Singh Sabharwal:The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari, The Alchemist, Sun Tzu's The Art of War, Miyamoto Musashi's Go Ron No Sho, A Master's Journey: Secret Memoirs of a Warrior, Healer, and Mystic.We also mentioned Bruce Lee.You can find him on the following websites and social media platforms:www.sifusingh.comwww.jkdathletics.comwww.mindboxing.comTwitter@sifusingh on instagramHarinder Singh Sabharwal on Facebook[gallery type="slideshow" size="full" ids="6225,6226,6227,6228"]
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below or download here.Jeremy Lesniak:Hello everyone. Thank you for coming by. Welcome. This is whistlekick Martial Arts Radio episode 358. Today, I'm joined by my guest, Sifu Singh. Maybe you're new to the show, maybe you don't know my voice. My name is Jeremy Lesniak. I'm your host for the show. I'm the founder at whistlekick. And I love martial arts. you can check out everything we do at whislekick.com. And if you buy something over there, you can save 15% using the code PODCAST15. We're adding new stuff all the time. If you want to check out the show notes for this or any of the other 357 episodes that we've got, you can find those at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. We've got a YouTube channel and a rapidly growing Instagram account. We've got Facebook. We're on Twitter. We're all over the place because we want to make sure that wherever you love and celebrate martial arts, we're there with you.Everyone has a story to tell. Everyone's journey into and through the martial arts is different. But at the same time, they're all pretty similar. What is not always the same is the level of passion that people have. Sometimes people have a lot of passionate when they start and it fades over time. Or sometimes people have a moderate amount of passion for their training and they continue with that moderate amount of training. But then some coming hot, they're passionate about their training. And yet as their lives go on, they continue to become more passionate. Martial arts continues to occupy a great place, even a growing place in their hearts and in their minds. And I think that's a good way to characterize today's guest. I think you'll enjoy this one; I know I did. So let's step back and welcome him to the show. Sifu Singh, welcome to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Jeremy, thank you very much for having me.Jeremy Lesniak:Oh, it's an honor to have you. We're going to have a ton of fun. I can already tell. Usually in the first 30 seconds, when the interview connects, I can tell who I've got on the line. I can tell their personality. I can tell whether we're going to jive and have some fun. And something tells me we're going to have some fun today.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:I have no doubt about it, man.Jeremy Lesniak:Maybe I should have said that in the end, Now, I've set the bar a little high, Everybody's nervous. We've got this. No, I know we've got this. Cool. Well, hey. It's a martial arts show. And so, our jumping off point, it's the same pretty much each time but it kind of has to be, doesn't it? Because we need some context for you as a martial artist. So, how did you get started?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Well I started when I was 6 years old in Washin-Ryu Karate in Toronto, at the University of Toronto Karate and Judo under Sensei Burt Conzac. We were immigrants. I'm of an Indian background and from India. And my family immigrated to Canada when we were really young. And my dad traveled a lot. So, my dad was a sea captain at that time and he wanted to make sure that growing up in foreign country and stuff like that, I was able to defend myself, build-up confidence and things of that nature. I actually remember when I was still living in India up to the age of 3 or 3.5 years old.. Because about 3 and 3.5 years old, we left India and I've lived on a ship when I was about 6 years old. And we've lived all over the world. But I still remember over my crib, there was a giant poster of Bruce Lee and one of Muhammad Ali that my dad had picked up in one of his trips. So, I still remember that so vividly. And so I think that was always an interest of his, and he also wanted to make sure that we could protect ourselves. And so I got into Karate and then I did Karate from 6 years old to 18 years old. It was a big part of my life. I competed. Then I moved to the United States, actually, on a tennis scholarship. I attended the University of California Davis. Completed my Computer Electrical Engineering degree. So, I put martial arts on a little bit of a hold for 3 or 4 years there while I was focused on tennis. And then a couple of events happened. One of the major ones was in 2001, we went to celebrate a graduation bonfire in a place called Ocean Beach.in San Francisco. It was literally like a scene out of a movie. We drove down to this bonfire celebration. We were the last 2 cars to get there. It was pitch-black at night. And the parking lot, if you can picture the scene, is elevated. And then you have to walk down from the parking lot some stairs, And then there's the beach and then people are about 100 yards away. So, they were about 100 to 150 yards away, down on the beach. We were elevated in this parking lot. And then while we're in that parking lot, you know what happens... Well one of the lessons I learned there and one of my teachers later pointed out that hey, think. Bad things happen to you when you least expect it and you're having a good time and your guard is down. So, what do you do? You're college kids, celebrating graduation. You pull up your cars, it was the very last 2 cars that arrived - there's about 5 or six of us - and what do you do? Pop open a beer and celebrate and do a cheers - and that's exactly what we're doing. And then literally, out of the darkness, 25 local gangsters that that was their turf. And we had no idea of this because Davis is outside of Sacramento which is two hours away from San Francisco. And I wasn't even fro California so I had no idea of any of this stuff. So, they were looking for someone and they were eyes out. Their eyes were totally glazed. They look like they're on another planet. And they approached us. First of all, it was like talking about attention or awareness being down of 25 people approaching me. You don't react or move or anything like that. At that time, you already just think that you're invincible and nothing can happen to you. And so, these guys approached us. It was really interesting. They had a form or in a format of how they would go through it. So, one of the guys asked one of my guys to the right of me for cigarette because he was smoking a cigarette. And while we looked over there, they all of a sudden grabbed my roommate. Because they were looking for somebody and it appeared that they were looking for, they taught, was my roommate because he resembled that person. And then 10 of them grabbed him, took him to the center. The other 10 formed a perimeter and then 5 people attacked out of it. So, within a flash of a second, all chaos had broken lose. And that was the very first real moment of my life... You know, I've been in competition sparring before, been in one-on-one street fights here and there before. But this was different. This was chaos. They didn't care. It was like a war, like no disregard for somebody getting hurt or not getting hurt. All I remember was they grabbed him and a two 07:07four coming at me. I did an upper block, snapped my elbow. And then I'm running. And then you have to make this decision happens where you actually go through your process of fight or fight. You have to make a decision. Do I just run away or do I help my friend? And I decided hey, I can't run away. But at the same time, I didn't know what to do. So I didn't know what to do in this scenario. It was crazy and it was like nothing out of the movies, nothing I've ever trained for. Nothing of any kind of thing that I've ever experienced like that before. People didn't come at you one at a time. People were charging you. And it really ended up looking more like a rugby match of people chasing me through cars. And that's what it looked like - swinging and you're hitting the back and you're running and they're chasing around you. So, it looked more like a rugby and football, and I'm the guy they're trying to tackle, running in between the cars. Then any kind of thing... You know, in the classical Kung Fu movie, everybody circles you, attack one at a time. So it wasn't anything like that. The most too distinct things I remember was one, I didn't know what to do. I didn't have a strategy. I didn't have a tactic. I've never experienced it. But on the other side of it, that was the first time in my life I experienced what I call the High Performance Zone. I have a new book coming out. It's called Mind Boxing: How to Win the War Within. Add one of the most important things is how do we get into the zone? And that was the first time I had experienced it. It was like this elevated state of attention and awareness. My time started to totally slow down. I felt like I was in The Matrix. And awkwardly, it felt really peaceful amongst this chaos. It was the weirdest experience that I've ever had in my life. So, that went on for about 3 to 4 or 5 minutes, maybe. Then somebody, obviously, called the police and you see the police starting to come down. They're about two miles up above the hill. Before they could make it down, the 2 guys that they were actually looking for happened to have walked by. And when they walked by, these guys just jumped on them. They forgot about us and they jumped on the 2 guys. And I remember dragging my roommate away. And then dragged him to the beach. I came back up, running back up like I need to get a license plate or something. By this time, these guys are loading up in their cars to get away. And I still remember it just like yesterday. There was a white Escalade. And I'm looking at the white Escalade but I couldn't make out the license plate. It was only about maybe 30 ft. or 40 ft. away from me but I couldn't make it out. I've been hit on the head a couple of times and it was really dark. And all of a sudden, I saw the driver's side door open. And this guy in gray sweats stepped out. And then I saw him reach into his pants. And then I just turned in and ran. And then I heard two shots. Now whether it were my direction or just up in the air, I'm not sure. But that day changed my life. I was filled with so much anger, so much shame. I was just obsessed but driven purely from this anger, this feeling of violation. This feeling of oh my god I thought I was tough and I thought I could protect my friend but couldn't. And I couldn't see anything other than the anger. So, I 10:24to myself. I said man, that night, an experience like this is never ever, ever going to happen to me again. And I graduated and I got my job. I got a very good job in Silicon Valley that payed a lot of money. So, I had freedom from that side. It afforded me the ability to train with Masters and Teachers. And so I sought out.. I went to two distinct paths. So the one thing I said was have to one, 10:48 instructors I could learn from? And I thought the people training in the military and the police, they've got to know something different than in a dojo or whatever. Because they're preparing people for life and death. At the same time, I've always had Bruce Lee's The Tao of Jeet Kune Do with me. And Bruce Lee had influenced me a lot. And then I started to read Bruce Lee's philosophies, started to really get into it. And that pointed the way. I found a Jeet Kune Do instructor who had trained the Navy Seals and stuff like that. Then I became one of his disciples and eventually over for him and started teaching. But I went down that hardcore street fighting path. Now at the same time, I also... So, this is going to be funny, okay? And the listeners, you're going to laugh at this. But remember, I was just a 22 year old kid that was driven with anger. I was like man, I need to learn the Death Touch. That's what I need to learn. I'm going to turn around and touch people and turn them all. So, I was obsessed. Who's going to teach me the Death Touch? It's going to be really weird, right? So, I got all the books possible on it. And everything pointed to the Chinese meridians, the acupuncture points. And so then, I was like okay. I'm an engineer. I'm going to reverse engineer this. So, you know what I'll do? I'll enroll in a four-year medical Qi Gong program. So, I enrolled in a four-year medical Qi Gong program which is designed to help people how to heal. But I figured that if I went that route, I could learn the other thing, too. And then I got into Tai Chi and the internal arts - the Qi Gong, the Nei Gong and the Shen Gong - and the most interesting thing happened. And in my book, I talked about it. There's a chapter, it's called From the Death Touch to the Healing Head. I was driven by all of this anger. And then I went through the process of self-discovery and I went through the layers and I started to do the meditations and I started to release the anger and the shame. All of a sudden, I was able to forgive my attackers. I was able to let that go. And as I was able to let that go, all of a sudden, that anger disappeared and it was replaced by love and this idea of healing. And I started to heal myself. And I was like wow, there' so much more. So I continued down that internal arts path with the Tai Chi and Qi Gong and Nei Gong. And then on the other side, I was following the Bruce Lee philosophy. I was like okay, so what was Bruce Lee's mission? What was his path? What was his way of self-discovery? So I was more obsessed with the path that he took than the end result that he got to. So, we know that he started with Wing Chun Kung Fu. And so I said okay, I want to immerse myself in the traditional way of learning that arts. So, I went through that. And I was like all right. So, there's a boxing element to this. There's a kickboxing element to this. So then I started training with a professional boxer and then kickboxers. And then I went to learn the French art of Savate, all from Daniel Duby De Lavergne in13:49 off the coast of Madagascar. Because he was the guy that was one of the last people teaching the actual old-school street fighting Savate versus the box 14:00 which is more for the ring. How you really use the boot as a hammer and the way you kick and all that. So, I learned that from him. I also got into wrestling and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and got coaches and teachers. And then I started to study to those arts. And then i also got into Filipino Kali - the knife and the stick and the swords. And then I started studying the various different systems of Kali. And then really falling in love with the Andel Cabales to Angel's disciples and lineage. And then I started to really... I mean I dedicated eight hours a day to this. And then after a while, I left my job and I just focused 100% of the time on training and teaching. And lo and behold, now I'm here. I found and discovered through that one event who I truly was, what my purpose was. I wasn't designed to be in Silicon Valley in a cube which I hated. I just wast doing that because Silicon Valley15:04 I'm going to become a millionaire. I'm going to get a sports car. I'm going to buy a house and have stock options. I was driven totally superficially. And then everything changed. And then I went on this journey of self-discovery. And then I realized my purpose was to spread courage, confidence and clarity and using martial arts as a vehicle. And that brings me to present day today and I wouldn't change anything for a thing.Jeremy Lesniak:Wow. That's quite a story. You talked a lot of different stuff in there. And we could probably go back and pick about 10 different sections that we could fill another hour with each. But there's one that I want to talk about in particular.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Sure.Jeremy Lesniak:And there's some surface stuff to it that's pretty obvious but I've got a feeling that there's a little bit more. You talked about... And by the way, the idea of being a young child growing up on a ship, that sounds really cool. The first image that comes to mind is something like from Water World and I know that that's not anything close to that. That was the image that came to my mind. It was you running around on a ship 16:16 everything. That was fun. So, I'm going to hold onto that image for a little while longer. But you said you took a break. And that's one of the things that we talk about on the show from time to time. Martial arts is always there for you. And so during this gap, this incredibly intense situation arises. And just the way you're talking about it, it's clear that this struck you. You said this was in 2001.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Yeah.Jeremy Lesniak:That's a story that 17 years old. If you graduated in 2001, even a little bit longer, right?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Uh-hum.Jeremy Lesniak:17.5 years.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Yeah.Jeremy Lesniak:But the way you described it was as if it made such an impression, such a permanent mark on your mind that I'm sure you could recount a whole bunch of other details that you didn't share with us.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Yeah. It's as fresh in my mind...Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:...as the day that i happened.Jeremy Lesniak:And when something happens that is that powerful, when it leaves that lasting of an impression, it becomes pivotal. It's a milestone. it's a moment that we can look back. And obviously, your concern, you desire to not be in similar situations again or to feel at least a little more prepared in similar situations should they arise led you towards some of the training that you did.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Yeah.Jeremy Lesniak:But what I want to talk about is how you felt in the few days immediately after. You would stop training - put it on pause - however you want to look at it. And I know how I would feel in that situation. I've got to guess as to how many people would feel in that situation. When we combine such a significant occurrence with the fact that it happened during a time when you weren't training.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Yeah, yeah.Jeremy Lesniak:Is there something there? Am I...?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Yeah. No, absolutely. The days after, you're kind of in a haze. When meet the kiss of death, comes that close to you and you just got out of that... If those 2 guys hadn't walked by, I don't know how we would survive. Because I remember when the ambulance left, they weren't moving. My roommate was beaten badly. It took him some time to recover. I snapped my elbow, I've been cracked on the head. I was just running around. I would have probably ran out of gas eventually. So, who knows what could have happened. So, divine intervention saved up. So from two perspectives, you're sitting there like a) I can't believe this happened, then b) I was more of thinking about I've never experienced anything like that before, I've never seen anything like that. I've been in a lot of fights growing up and even while I was still in college and I wasn't practicing, I still had a few fights here and there, break out of parties and things like that. I mean, it's college, right? But still, nothing went bad. And so the experience was so overwhelming that it shakes you. And I think the universe has a certain design. So, whenever something happens to us like a disastrous moment, we're given two ways of looking at it. We can look at it like oh my god, I can't believe this happened to me and then let our thoughts kinds of feed that energy. Or the idea becomes okay, why did this happen to me and do we use this as a catalyst for growth? And that's kind of what I started to switch into right away. Because it was like there's never been a time when I trained anything like this. I trained this kind of mindset or this feeling. There's that thing: you fight the way you train and you train the way you fight. So, there have never been a time that I experienced the feeling. Let alone not knowing the strategy but the feeling, right? And so those two things were seriously missing. So, I totally felt like I didn't know what to do and that's what scared me more than anything. I can't believe I had no idea. And I've spent 13 years training and teaching and competing and doing all that - a big part of my life - and I thought I knew or had a sound understanding of it. And I realized I really didn't have a clue. So, it was like a feeling of being so lost and frustrated and angry. Man, I was angry. I remember the feeling was just anger. And I felt violated. I think anybody that has gone through abuse or some kind of physical trauma like that that somebody else imposes on them, they feel violated. And then there's an element of, and I'll be honest, ashamed. I felt shame. I felt less than a man. I was like, I can't believe this was done to me and I didn't know what to do and I didn't... My ego was hurt. I couldn't save my roommate. I'm supposed to be this bad-ass Karateka and I couldn't do it. And who I thought I was was just shattered in that moment. But it was one of the most freeing moments of my life. Because that led me into really... Driven by anger, obviously. But afterwards, what I discovered would have never been possible without it. But really, to answer question, the feeling was just anger, shame, not knowing, feeling lost, uncertain. And you didn't have an anchor. Because I thought I always had an anchor. That in this realm of martial arts and protecting myself and protecting my loved ones, I always thought I had an anchor. And that anchor now wasn't there. And it was a big part of who I thought I was. Because even though I wasn't actively training, my mindset was still always that of a martial artist. So when I approach my studies and things got stuff, it was that idea of this isn't tough. I can get through this. Oh, this is a challenge. All right. Let's head it on. Oh, things are getting too stressful? Let's do some breathing exercises. So, that was always like my.. The warrior. The warrior was still there. But then I felt that the warrior had been injured and the spirit had been injured. And that was the scary part.Jeremy Lesniak:That anger, it makes complete sense. And it's something that I'm sure I would experience in that situation. But where was it directed? Were you angry at yourself or others?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:I was angry a) at myself, but b) more at those guys. I think of things like, oh man. I'd get so angry and sit there and be like you know, these guys commit this beach like this. I'm going to do some rumble stuff and it points them by the boat, come from the ocean. And you know, all the movies you watch as a child by Commando and all this. You start running these scenarios, these crazy whacked-out scenarios in your mind that you're never going to do. But why am I even thinking about it? Later on, I'm going to be like why are am I thinking of these stuff? I'd get a machine gun, I'd get all these guys done. That's what I was thinking. Because that's how violated I felt. We have emotions. And later I learned, obviously, our emotions are energy and energy has to be processed and transformed and let go. And one of the most important things for you to know, even the listeners out there, that if you had a traumatic experience, you have to get in touch with the emotion that's there. You have to feel it. You have to be able to talk about it. It wasn't easy for me as a younger person to sit there and talk about my emotion that I suffer them. And you didn't feel much like a man to go out and tell people you feel angry, ashamed and ashamed from using these words and hurt, this terminology, and even on a level of sadness that this thing happened to you. But once you understand the emotions, you get to feel them. You feel them that helps to start to process them. And then eventually, you want to extract the wisdom from the experience. And once you can extract the wisdom from the experience and process the emotions and let it go and realize that this moment was a gift, that moment was a gift and your attackers were a gift.Because they came and nudged you into the direction of who you were supposed to become and not who you think you are. That's what my father was at the time. I was totally superficially-driven I only wanted to make money. I was doing a career I hated but I did it. I said, I'm going to become an engineer. Just 25:12 Silicon Valley and make money. I mean there wasn't a single thing I enjoyed about it. Every single class, every single work day was torture for me. But I was in this prison that I created myself. And my attackers, God bless them. They freed me from it.Jeremy Lesniak:Absolutely powerful stuff. Now when you look back on that moment, on those feelings, how much of it have you let go of?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:All of it.Jeremy Lesniak:100%?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:100%.Jeremy Lesniak:Okay.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:All of it. And that's what allowed me then to... I lost my hair to Alopecia when I was 13 years old. So, I wore a wig from 13 to 28 years old. This attack happened to me when I was about 23 years old. And so I was still wearing a wig and covering my head. But when this attack got me into this process of self-discovery, this way of self-healing that I didn't even know because I was trying to learn the Death Touch. And in doing so, when I was able to let go of that anger first, then I was able to see this is what I actually am. A whole compartment of energy opened up. But there's another even that I've got to share with you and a story that's really important and it really ties end. That happened in June 2001 but in August of 2001, I suffered a horrible car accident also in San Francisco. A scab driver ran a red light at the intersection of Sampson and Sacramento and it was a one-way. I didn't see it. He ran a red light and he T-boned me. He hit me on the passenger's side and luckily, obviously, I was on the the driver's side. That passenger side door crumpled all the way into the center console. So much so that I couldn't take the faceplate off my stereo system. The car went 20 ft. and hit a pole on the other side. I was able to walk away from that but I injured my L4 and L5 vertebrae. I tore the muscles in my abdominal column. I injured my neck and I was jacked up. Obviously, my senior year of tennis was gone coming up for the next year. However, that was a huge blessing for me because I was interning at Franklin Templeton Investments that summer. And there was a business trip which comes like a reward. You're a college kid going to Franklin Templeton and you're working. And when they tell you oh, yeah you're doing a good job. You can get to go on this business trip to Manhattan and stay there for a week. That's a huge reward. So, all summer I was looking forward to that. This car accident happened. I missed two and a half weeks of work. So, I was behind of my project so I couldn't attend that business trip. But I was scheduled to be in World Trade Center Tower 2 on the 92nd floor at 8 a.m. on 9/11. Now that happened. So now that event happened and then the other... So, that event happened. The car accident happened. The attack happened. All in the span of three months. And those just shook my world completely. So I started to ask the question. So I started to ask the question, in car accident I had to figure out ways to rehab my back with missing the World Trade Center horrific terrorist attack? I still feel so sad about so many people we lost. That rattled my spirit. Like man, there's got to more to life. I just start asking these question. Just started asking these questions; there's got to be more in life. Then I'm asking the question, how do I fix myself physically? And then I'm asking the question how do I learn the ways to finish my opponents as fast as possible? What's the martial way? So, these three things were catalysts that really kind of pushed my development. And now when I think back and I look at it, that summer of 2001 was pivotal because it change every part of me. Not only did I recover from my back injury; it took me five years to figure out ways to do it. Doctors told me to have surgery and they said I'd never really move the way I could again and all those kind of stuff. I didn't listen to any of that stuff. I went back in. And once again, what led me into Tai Chi was getting attacked. Then when I got into that, I learned the Qi Gong and the Nei Gong and the breathing and the energy work. It also led me into looking into systems of physical fitness that didn't involve lifting weights and stuff like that. So I started putting body weight exercise like I add in kettle bells. And then I was able to not only recover from the injury but turn myself into an athlete like never before where today, I continued that process. Today, I'm 41 years old and I can confidently tell you that the 21 or 22 year old version of me that was a NCAA athlete couldn't hold a candle to me 20 years later on any physical fitness assessment test. From running a 40-yard dash to lifting weight, the focus, the speed, the coordination wouldn't even be comparable. It's s interesting how all of these things kind of happen. And 30:34 blessed. So you turn disaster into your master and what can you learn from it? And now looking back, that's one of the biggest things that I teach my students. You realize that you have a specific path especially as a teacher. All the teachers listening out there, there are martial artists that teach because there's something greater that they're giving. We teach punching and kicking but it's so much more than that. We're teaching a way of life. We're teaching people how to deal with struggle. We're teaching people how to find who they truly are, that this is a process of self-discovery. And that's a priceless gift that we give people. We're teaching then the warrior's way which is what got us all in it. Forget about styles and systems. There's always arguments on the internet about the style and that style, my master is better than your master. It's just a big waste of time. We're all so much more alike than we are apart. We do it for the same reasons. We do it to discover who we are and do it for the way of the warrior. We do it for the community that we build. We do it for courage, confidence and clarity. And we do it because it's a lot of fun. Because we're sitting out there, pushing ourselves to find what's the next level we can get? What's the ultimate version of ourselves we could be instead of sitting on the couch watching other people finally achieve their dreams and eating potato chips.Jeremy Lesniak:Are you familiar with the book of the movie Way of the Peaceful Warrior by Dan Millman?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Yes, I am. A wonderful, wonderful book.Jeremy Lesniak:Your story reminds me a lot of that.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Yeah, maybe.Jeremy Lesniak:There's some similarities in there. And listeners, if you've never read that book or seen that movie, the movie does a good job. But the book is incredibly powerful.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:The book is incredible. I've read the book. It's incredible.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Actually, I read the book in the process. Because when I was... I just wanted to seek knowledge.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Because I wanted to seek knowledge, I was looking everywhere for knowledge. I was gorging books - philosophy books. And we can sit here and we can make it about all the books I've read. But I've read hundred of them, hundreds of books. I think books are some of the most amazing things in the world because the stories allow you to connect to other people's experiences. And then they plant ideas in your head that cause you to ask more questions.Jeremy Lesniak:Absolutely.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Asking the question is the whole thing, right? The quest is based on the questions.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah. Yeah, there's something pretty powerful about the written word. When people look at cell phones, smartphones, and say we've got all these ways of communicating and the one that still so many people default to is texting. To me that makes complete sense. There's something inherent...Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Yeah.Jeremy Lesniak:... in simple writing, in communicating that way that just works. And it's worked for a very long time.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:I think you're absolutely right.Jeremy Lesniak:If I asked you to recommend a book from the multitude that you've read, especially that one that maybe listeners haven't read, what would you recommend?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari.Jeremy Lesniak:Oh. The title already has me.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Yeah.Jeremy Lesniak:Why that one?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:It was about this journey, right? So, when you're seeking, the... I think people read books for two reasons. First, people read fictional books to be entertained, to be taken on a journey. So, that's one way. And then there's other books that are nonfictional where people are seeking some kind of answer and so they're reading for information. But The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari is one that's giving you information but also telling you a fable, wonderful story. And so it takes you on this journey of self-discovery. And for somebody who's asking the questions, here is a book that talks about a guy that went through it. I don't want to give it all away but it's about a lawyer who's super successful. And then he gets divorced and all this kind of stuff. He's living this horrible lifestyle and becomes an alcoholic. Then he goes on this quest for knowledge and he meets these monks in India. And he starts this process of self-discovery. And what is that process? And it kind of catalogs that many comes back in the society and it shows us how no, as a transformed person, realizes that service, really, is the highest power, the ultimate goal. And we have to first discover who we are. So, you've got to do the work first on yourself. So like I say, you've got to put the oxygen mask on yourself to get who you truly are, really to the root of who you are. I think all the best books that I've ever read are about answering the questions who are you? Who are you truly? I mean, even General Sun Tzu; know yourself then know your enemy and you're sure to succeed. But knowing yourself is a lifelong process. And yourself, who you are, continuously changes. So, it's not one set sell. You're always changing so it's a continual process of knowing who you are and discovering. And then what's the next step? You keep peeling back the layers of the onion. And you get deeper and deeper. And I think the books that really strike us, that really strike a chord, always have some element of that self-discovery aspect. And when you can feel somebody else's pain, that in pain that you've experienced yourself, and they can describe it in a way that it's even better than you can describe it, it catches you emotionally. And like I would say, it's a known fact that most people will only change when the pain of the experience they're going through is greater than the pain of change. And that's the commonality throughout all great books. Sorry, go ahead.Jeremy Lesniak:No. I was just quietly agreeing with you.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Yeah. So, The Monk Who Sold His Ferrari is a great one. The Alchemist is another great one. Obviously, most of the readers here probably, I mean I have my Bible there sitting right next to me. Sun Tzu's The Art of War. Miyamoto Musashi's Go Ron No Sho. Here's another great book that people could really enjoy. One of my teachers wrote it. It's called. A Master's Journey: Secret Memoirs of a Warrior, Healer, and Mystic. It's a really cool book about self-discovery and the process. It's a true stories that he went through and the teachings. It really gives it a great idea of what the idea of Kung Fu really is about. Most people stop at the level of punching and kicking, and keep trying to take that to the highest level possible. But it's really much lower level if you think about it because the highest level 37:56 is Kung Fu or Karate or Jiu Jutsu, whatever your art may be that you're practicing, it's about perception. And perception comes down to energy. And energy comes down to how much available energy do you have for the present moment. So, how much of your energy is available? And often times, a lot of your energy is used to hold on to previous stories, past ideas, previous traumas - all of those things. When they're in your body, they're taking energy. So, we lose track of that. We lose the awareness around that because it gets buried in our subconscious. And the process of opening up our subconscious, to let go of those energy draining stories and ideas that are stored in your cells and DNA that you've held onto since you were a child. And the moment you start to elect all of that, your perceptions start to increase. It's almost like when you get your first boxing lesson. If you've got a good teacher, they're not going to teach you how to throw until you get over the fear of being hit. So, my first four months boxing, I had one hand behind my back, the other hand up, neck on my chin and I was just taking punches and getting over the fact of being hit. Then after a while, you just say okay, I'm not afraid of being hit anymore. And the moment you're not afraid of being hit anymore, any punch that comes, it comes like it's in slow motion. So, your perception changes because the fear of being hit takes your energy away. And then you're feeding that fear. And when you feed that fear, it gets you out of the moment. Because you only have a little bit of energy left to the actual act f defending the punch. The moment you can let go of the fear or whatever, in this fear of being punched, fear of failure, fear of what other people think, fear of not being good enough, whatever the fears that are out there in life - when you begin to let go of them, you have more energy for the experience. Then you can open up to the experience instead of trying to defend or protect or worry or guard. And when you can let go of that, man, it's the coolest feeling in the world. It's freedom. And so, you can either be in fear or you can be in freedom. Martial arts gives you a direct way to it. Because if somebody's throwing a punch at you, the moment you aren't afraid to be hit anymore, like oh my god, I'm not afraid. And now you go into regular life and fears it. That's just a derivative. I'm not afraid of somebody actually hitting me so I shouldn't be afraid of the projected fear like what somebody else thinks or a fear of failure that hasn't even happened yet because it''s in the future. Or the fear of not being good enough, who cares? Then you're a free man.Jeremy Lesniak:Right on. Now, you've spoken about the multitude. I mean just the sheer... I think I counted six or seven martial arts that you said you've trained.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:Yeah. At least, yeah.Jeremy Lesniak:It's a lot. It's awesome. I mean, I'm not saying that in any kind of negative way. I've done the same thing and I think it's great. I love cross-training. i love connecting dots between different arts. So, when you look at those folks that you've trained with, whether it's a boxing instructor - for four months you're only taking shots and not giving them - the Jiu Jitsu instructor or someone else, when you look at who you are as a martial artist today, which of those instructors had the greatest influence?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:I would have to say my Tai Chi masters - Sifu Arnold Tayam and Sifu Jery Alan Johnson and Sifu Bender. Because they came at me more from a self-discovery standpoint than from a pure fightings standpoint, and discussed the energetic psychology with me. That energy, genetic psychology of who you are and helping answer that question. 42:05like physical limitations. All my instructors, I love them to death. I wouldn't be who I am without them. But they gave me a foundation or the roots of coming from an internal perspective than just an external physical perspective. And that really helped shape everything that I do. Because I come from my core being of who I am and look for the moment and look to master the moment. And through mastering the moment whether in boxing or Jiu Jitsu or Jeet Kune Do, whatever it is that I'm doing, I'm able to access a higher version of myself, a a higher version of attention and awareness of the moment and express myself honestly. And to be honest, Bruce Lee, even though he wasn't my teacher, I still think he's the greatest influence in my life. Because it was his teachings that I was after; it was his philosophies that I was after. And I realized that the philosophy, with everything he wrote in the books that he talked about, I was learning and getting a chance to learn it through the Tai Chi training progressions and process. And the interesting thing is, if you look at the core symbol or Jeet Kune Do, it's not a Jeet Kune Do logo. It's a Tai Chi logo. It's pointing the way to the internal philosophies of Tai Chi and of the Tao, of the way, the rules, of nature, of the process of self-discovery. And he picked that symbol to represent this overlined philosophy. Because Jeet Kune Do is philosophy in motion. Jeet Kune Do led me to all the other arts. The Jeet Kune Do is the way of the intercepting fists. And you can only be intercepting someone if you can perceive what they're going to do. Often times we think interception is just about speed. That's not true, okay? To a certain degree, of course. If we fight only on the physical realm, of course. But the idea is beyond that, how do we access other levels of perception and awareness. What's the difference between Michael Jordan and everybody else? When you look at NBA athletes at that level, they're all amazing athletes. They can all put up the same physical numbers. They can all dunk, they can all shoot - they can all do that. But Michael Jordan was able to slow down time when it counted the most and do it more often than anybody else. He wanted the ball when the game was on the line. He wasn't afraid to shoot. He was in the moment and he mastered the moment. That's the difference between Michael Jordan and everybody else. But it's the same thing in martial arts and more so. You have to master the moment. What did Miyamoto Musashi said? You have to go into the void. Here's the guy that the master-less Samurai, wasn't trained by anybody, but was able to use his mind and access greater levels within himself. Because he had already dealt with fear and anger and the fear of failure in the future. Or not being stuck and limited to his experiences in the past. Because often times we look to our experiences in the past, bring them into the present moment and try to solve the problem based on what we experienced. That only works so far as a situation that you've already been in before. But if you're in a situation you've never been in before, you can't really go into past experiences to help save you in that situation. You have to be open to the experience and accept and let yourself figure it out on the fly. And the only way that can ever happen is if you have 100% of your energy to the moment and to the experience that you're connecting to the opponent, adapting to them and creating solution versus being up in your head trying to think of a solution. The moment you go in your head and you start to think, you go into the past. And that's going to instantly make you slower. So, these concepts and principles that Bruce lee talked about, I was actually able to learn them in the Tai Chi training of the Qi Gong and the Nei Gong. In that process, I was able to then bring back over into anything I did. And so, the underlying factor, while we're on the 46:22 way, is from that internal training. And I still continue to this day. There's no 46:29no mastering of the self, the internal version of yourself. There's no limit to that. And the deeper you go, the better you feel. And the better you feel, the more relaxed you get. But you just keep peeling away layer after layer. And it's very uncomfortable. I mean that's where you really need a warrior spirit. I don't care about people beating up on me or taking punches, being shove out. That's nowhere near difficult as taking a look at yourself honestly in the mirror - the good, the bad, and the ugly - and being able to accept and love it.Jeremy Lesniak:Cool stuff. Now, let's flip that question on its head. If you could train with someone you haven't, who would that be?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:I have to give Bruce Lee, man.Jeremy Lesniak:The most common answer to that question, without a doubt.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:It would have to be Bruce Lee, you know? I think that I would just love to experience it. To experience the master that he had over the moment, over his body, over his mind, over the philosophy and be around that energy. And to think about it, his energy was so amazing that to this day... That's why he's the most popular answer because his energy burst out through the screen.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah. Right.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:It just burst out through the screen. Because he was honest. Even though he was playing a character, the energy from within him would come out, right? And this and that. And everybody connected to that and wanted to feel that within themselves. And I think he was the perfect balance between killer instinct and higher consciousness. And together, the two parts of who we are as beings, he's expressing it honestly. And that's something so difficult to do. But doing it and doing it in that time when there was48:21 racism, being the first non-Caucasian person to start in a role in Warner Bros. and him breaking barriers. I mean, when him and Linda got married, it was illegal for interracial marriage. He was the first person teaching these martial arts principles outside of the Chinese circles. At that time, it was all secret. Before, if you're not Chines, you're not going to get it. And so he broke down so many barriers and so many different levels. Yeah, it would just be amazing to be around his energy for real for a while.Jeremy Lesniak:Yeah. No doubt or whatsoever on my mind. Now you mentioned some things about competition, I think, more early on in you martial arts career. Competition, of course, can be a polarizing subject in the martial arts. So, I'm just kind of curious. Tell us a bit about your experience with it and your thoughts on it today.Harinder Singh Sabharwal:So, I competed since I was six years old up until 18. I competed in kata and I competed in point sparring. And the funny thing is, up until I was 13 years old, I lost. I lost all the time. All of those six years, I lost. I lost to everything I did and never won a match. And all of a sudden, when i was 13 years old, the head Sensei was replaced. We had a new head Sensei and had a slightly different approach. And I jive with him a lot. And all of a sudden, I went from never winning... We had an annual tournament with over 40 schools that would kind of take part. And I started to win. And I won four years in a row and I was undefeated in point sparring. I think that... And now, I don't compete but I spar a lot. I roll a lot. So, I do spar a lot but I don't necessarily enter competition. But what I think is really cool about sparring or being in competition is not about the winning. It's about learning to lose. It's about accepting failure and invest. There's this Tai Ji saying. We say invest and lost. You have to invest and lost because after you lose and lose and lose and lose, each time you should get better as you extract the wisdom from the experience. And as you do that, you get better. Because when you win, you win. And when you lose, you get better. So, there's really no difference between victory and defeat. Competition gives you an opportunity for that. Another thing competition gives you an opportunity to deal with stress and pressure and things of that nature. So, it's still not a full-on streetfight, per say. Worse than life and death yet. But it gives you a progression to see what you can and yo can't do. So then once you do point sparring and then you get into boxing, you can into wrestling and Jiu Jitsu and MMA. We do a lot of that in our training. I spar with as many people as possible. So, my coaches and staff, I spar with them. And so, it's not necessarily the competition, per say. But for me, when I train them, because I train up, I train people much better than me in those disciplines. It gives me an opportunity to make myself comfortable in an uncomfortable situations. So, that's what I'm always looking for out of these kinds of things. To me, it's not about winning and losing. It's about can I make myself comfortable in an uncomfortable situation. My Jiu Jitsu teacher, Professor Marcel Louzado, smashes me for two hours. And you're just trying to breathe and make it through. You're tapping all over the place but you're like man, I'm not going to get tired. I'm not going to give up because I psyched myself out mentally. I'm not going to give up because the situation is so uncomfortable. And then when you make yourself comfortable in that uncomfortable situation and you enjoy the smashing, it changes your mindset. You get into... When I box with my boxing coach, Derek Sierra who is former PRO boxer, big dude and moves so smooth. And every time he hits you it's like a canon ball going off. And you accept that every time you go in. It's, again, a victory over yourself. It's not you beating the other person. It's an opportunity to gain victory over yourself by making yourself comfortable in that situation. Like I said, I spar with people better than me in the individual disciplines that I learn. And that makes me better. That makes me better at the experience. And putting myself in the zone so that I can create, connect and adapt. And it's fun because it's an opportunity. Once you get past fear, once you get past the discomfort, you have the ultimate ability to achieve stillness. So, there's three levels of stillness. There's stillness in stillness which is okay - standing or seated meditation. Then there's stillness in movement. All right. Now you're finding stillness in a form or in a kata or in shadow boxing. But then, those are all progressions to get you to find stillness in movement under chaos. now can you find the stillness when you're moving and adapting while somebody's actively trying to stop you? And then if you can achieve the stillness i that moment, that to me is what it's about.Jeremy Lesniak:What are your parents think about this?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:They love it now. They love it now. But just like any parents that love their children, they're like oh, you're an engineer. You'll be set for life. I was getting int the business side of engineering and strategic marketing and intelligence towards the later part of my career there. And they just want you to be successful. So, if they don't know something about a field or a profession, it's natural for them to feel a little apprehensive. But they were always supportive. And they say, we trust you and go for it. Nobody ever said no to me. But I do know that they definitely felt like okay, be careful and take of yourself and all that. And I've never looked back and neither did them. They're super proud of me now. They're super proud of what I'm doing and having an opportunity is a big part of what I do. I love the martial arts, I love teaching, I love training. I love that. But a big part of my business and my mission is to spread these teachings and philosophies outside of the martial arts world. So, I'm a speaker and a high performance coach. I work with a lot of executives. I work with entrepreneurs and I give talks all around the world. I speak on the same stage as this. I've had the honor of speaking on the same stage with Sir Richard Branson. I had Jack Canfield from Chicken Soup for the Soul. I've given talks in companies like Apple, Morgan Stanley Investments and A6 and Hilton and so on and so forth. So, I'm giving about two to three talks a month where I go in as a professional speaker. I talk about various topics of self-mastery. And it's all stuff that I've learned through the martial arts. And it's all about teaching to them how they can achieve the highest version of themselves. And I don't teach them any martial art. Just teach them the philosophies behind it and it's energetic psychology - self-discovery, how do you deal with stress, how do you prepare yourself for the day. When you're in a situation, how do you deal with people with different personality types. How do you plan? Because most of it is about the person. Because there's four things we can train. We can train our craft - whatever it is we're doing. So, if you're on sales or marketing or martial arts, that's your craft. Or you're a painter or a musician, whatever, that's your craft. And then there's the mind, the energy and the spirit. So, people talk about the mind. I was there to talk about the body. But often times, the mind, the energy and the spirit, though that's about the individual taking part in the action. So the man, the living being, the creating individual is much more important than any style or system. So, the person in the event is more important than the event itself. So, everybody always focuses on the tactics, strategies of their craft. How do they get better at that? But the focus is never put as much on the individual taking part in it. And that's where I come in and help them with that. I help them with leadership and help them to connect into the moment. And the biggest thing I'd say is I teach them how to become comfortable in uncomfortable situations. Because that is the true master key to success. When you're at the highest level of whether its entrepreneurship or athletics or entertainment martial arts combat, that is the skill that is going to actually determine victory or defeat. Because when everything goes crazy around you and you start to panic and your heart starts to pound and you start to get that armpit sweat and your mind starts to raise, your ability to identify that and get yourself back in the moment, this is what's going to determine victory or defeat. If you're going to lose and the person's better than you, so be it. But if you're going to lose because you can't get a hold of yourself and make yourself relax on demand which is a skill that has to be trained, then you're the first enemy. The first enemy you have to defeat is the enemy within.Jeremy Lesniak:Right on. Now what's going in the future? What are your goals? What are your plans? What makes things in and outside of the martial arts are keeping you motivated?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:So, in the martial arts, I'm about to launch a joint program with Century Martial Arts. It's called Jeet Kune Do for Blackbelts. It's a master's program. So, it's a place for martial artists that have learned their art and gotten to the highest of their arts. Because this is for people who are already black belts, dedicated their lifetime in it and what's the next level. What's the master's degree of... It's not in a sense of like I'm your master but master's degree is kind of like as in school. Your master's and PhD of self-discovery. So, first and foremost, if you're... Maybe you are in a punching and a kicking art or striking art, then you've got to balance that out by learning aspects of grappling and trapping and weapons. Maybe you're in grappling art, then you need to learn some striking. So, basically, balancing out first of the five ranges. So, there's five ranges of empty-hand combat. There's the kicking, the punching, the trapping, the clinching or stand-up wrestling, and on-the ground. So you have to have the ability to flow through that. Today, in the year 2018, you have to be able to be like water and transform there. You also have to be able to use weapons like edge weapons and blunt weapons, and be able to defend yourself over there. You have to be able to defend yourself in mass attack situations. You have to be able to defend yourself against people that are larger than you. And you also have to have theories and formulas and strategies on how to fight other martial artists that they challenge you from various different styles and systems. So, tactics and strategies... So, this kind of broken up into three areas. First is the development in cultivation of stillness and make a perception. Second is strategy. So, strategy leads the way. So, it's strategy and then the execution of the tools. And then the next part is the training methods that are there; and the teaching methods so that we can become better teachers and become better trainers. There's a big aspect of self-discovery. Kind of going through the same processes that I've gone through and discovering who we truly are, what are our natural gifts, bringing those thing out. So, self-development program joint with Century. So, we're going to launch that in 2019. And like most schools have a black belts programs, there are black belt club. You could think about this as where you would go after that, into the master's program. And this is kind of a big thing that I'm very excited about. I'm very honored to be working with Century. So, that's out there. I have another project that's already out there which I did with the Budo Brothers which is called Martial Arts for Everyone. Which is more of an introductory program that kind of introduces people to all the various aspects of martial arts and how to learn them in a very simple manner. And I'm doing projects with Masters Magazine. I have Combat Chess coming out which is all about tactics and strategy of how the combat is actually a chess match. So, the martial arts world, I'm very excited with everything that's coming out. And having the ability to teach and ability to spread and if people find it beneficial to them, I'm more than happy to help them. And I'm really excited about that. I also have a book coming out that's called Mind Boxing: How to Win the War Within. It should be coming out in summer of 2019. And this is a book that's probably good to people to people outside of the martial arts world. And it's more about the philosophical and the internal methods and teaching that allow people to dive inside. And first and foremost, deal with stress, deal with the obsessive thinking of the mind to help turn it off. Because like you said, we live in a world today, this digital world. We're always on and always connected but we're very disconnected from who we truly are and disconnected in our relationships. When we talk about performance, it has to first come with connection and balance and who you are - yourself and your energy. And then connect it to other people. So, it's a book about self-mastery. It's a book about discovering the cause of your own ignorance laid out in a manner that teach you the progression to self-discovery. O'm speaking and I'm talking all over the world at various different companies and conferences and things of that nature, and helping to influence as many people as possible. I've been blessed with my experiences and my teachers. I love what I do. I've been blessed with being able to find what I love to do. So now, it's just about how many people can I help on this path of courage, competence and clarity. And what else can I continue to learn? This constant path of growth and learning. So more than anything, I'm excited about the future growth and the learning curve of the things that I don't know yet. For sure, the thing that I do know more than anything, the ultimate truth, is the more I train, the more I learn, the more I realize that I don't know. And that's an awesome feeling because that means I can keep growing till the day I take my last breath.Jeremy Lesniak:So well said. If we go want to find out more about the things you talked about or follow you on social media or any of that, where would they go?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:My Twitter and Instagram is @sifusingh. And my Facebook is my name, Harinder Singh Sabharwal. So you can reach me on Facebook there. And my website is sifusingh.com, jkdathletics.com. That's my organization. We have about 50 schools across the world with instructors. If you're looking for Jeet Kune Do training, you can check that website out. And then mindboxing.com which is with regards with my book and my corporate speaking. And I handle coaching for executives and entrepreneurs. And I have another project that's launching this year. It's been on-going kind of... I've been doing it for two years but really taking it full-fledged out there. It's actually called The Masterful Man. And it's a training program that teaches the warrior's way for men that are out there that are successful business men, that are people who are family men, that are people who want to maximize their health, maximize their success in business and maximize their relationships at home and really get the best out of life by discovering the warrior's way. So, it's kind of Fight Club meets The Jedi. I've put it a little bit together and that's going to be the experience with crafting to them.Jeremy Lesniak:Nice. Sounds great. And of course, folks, we're going to link all that stuff over on the show notes - whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. So, you can check that out. And one more thing as we wind down here, what parting words would you give the audience?Harinder Singh Sabharwal:I believe that there's no such word as master. There's only such thing as acting master. And so that means, 1:05:21 master for me every single day. Be impeccable in your thought, actions, your words. And be impeccable in conserving and building your own energy. Don't let yourself get to a point where you're completely defeated and then you have to bring yourself back. Do things that feed your energy. Do things that builds you up. And be cognizant of this and then protect that. Because when you're in that state of heightened energy, you have more energy not only for yourself. You have more energy for your martial arts, you have more energy for your relationships, your business. And you can only be in a state of having more energy when you can honestly express who you truly are and continue to ask that question - who are you? And continue to peel away the layers. And enjoy the steps of the journey and it'll take you to freedom.Jeremy Lesniak:I think we'd all agree that we are who are because of where we've been - what we've done, what we've seen, how we've done it and who we've been around. But it's not too often that we can look at specific examples, a handful of occurrences that statistically shouldn't have happened. But they did and they catapulted us into a different direction on a different path. They allow us to become completely different people. Sifu Singh is one of those people. He can look back and say, this allowed me to become who I am. And I appreciate him speaking so honestly, so openly about not only those events but everything that came after it and how it affected him. Thank you, sir, for your time today.We talked a lot of stuff on today's show. You can find the links, you can find all kinds of great stuff in the show notes for this episode 358 over at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. If you want to find us on social media, we are @whistlekick - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube. You can email me directly, jeremy@whistlekick.com. Don't forget. Save 15% with the code PODCAST15 at whistlekick.com. We're also on Amazon. And thank you for your time today. I appreciate you and you lending me your ears. Until next time. Train hard, smile, and have a great day.