Episode 23: Sensei Terry Dow
Sensei Terry Dow is a martial arts instructor, Bill Wallace student and former competitor from New Hampshire.
Sensei Terry Dow: Episode 23
Terry Dow Bill Wallace
I first met Sensei Dow during the planning stages of our Superfoot Seminar, with Bill "Superfoot" Wallace (who was on the show). Through that process I learned we had a lot of mutual martial arts friends and what a great martial artist he is.Sensei Dow operates a martial arts and fitness studio in Manchester, NH that is also the official Northeast headquarters for Superfoot Systems - the kickboxing system created by Bill Wallace. Those are certainly big shoes to fill, but I can personally attest that if anyone can fill them, it's Sensei Dow.As with all of our guests, though, it was more Sensei Dow's story that I wanted to hear. Sure, his relationship with Superfoot is a critical part of his life - but how did he meet him? What chain of events led him to where he is now? Well, we have the answers in this episode.
Show Notes
Movies: Chinese Connection, A Force of One (Available on Netflix)Actors: Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Chuck NorrisThe Training Station WebsiteThe Training Station on FacebookMartial Arts Symposium on Facebook
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below or download here.
Hello everyone and thanks for checking us out today. You're listening to episode 23 of whistlekickMartialArtsRadio the only place to hear the best stories from the best martial artists. I'm your host Jeremy Lesniak and I'm also the founder of whistlekick, makers of the best sparring gear available as well as exciting apparel and accessories for traditional martial artists. You can learn more about our products like our super comfy hooded sweatshirts at whistlekick.com and you can learn more about the podcasts including all our past episodes show notes for this one and a lot more over at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com and while you're on our website don't forget to sign up for our newsletter full of information, discounts and useful martial arts content and if you're an Android user you can check out our new Android app on the Google Play store just search for whistlekick. It's an easy way to stay connected with the show and now for the review of the week, remember we read an iTunes review every week and if we read yours you just email us at info@whistlekick.com and we'll send you out a free prize pack a shirt, probably a water bottle, stickers and some other cool stuff and we're even gonna flip the shipping on that. This week's review comes to us from sleepless nights and it's titles a great resource for knowledge seekers and it's a 5-star review and it starts out - I do a lot of thinking how my training is affecting me spiritually, intellectually and emotionally, as I increase my general martial arts education by hearing the stories and musings of far more experienced and advanced practitioners, as well as pick up new knowledge about other styles and traditions, I'm also struck that the prevailing theme is that pursuing martial arts training equals self-improvement. Tuning in to these conversations helps me affirm my own progress as I struggle forward in my training. And thank you for that great review and I have to say I agree as I listened to the guests right along with you guys, I'm constantly inspired and reaffirmed in my own training, and now to the episode. Today we're joined by Sensei Terry Dow from New Hampshire. Sensei Dow is a kind man and a great martial artist but he's probably best known as Superfoot Wallace's number 1 guy. If you've ever attended a Superfoot seminar, you've probably met Sensei Dow. Now while his relationship with the legend is exciting and interesting and we do talk about it, there's a lot more to Sensei Dow. I was happy to have him on the show and learn more about who he is and I think you'll enjoy hearing what he has to say, so with that Sensei Dow, welcome to whistlekickMartialArtsRadio.
Terry Dow:
Thank you very much Jeremy, pleasure to be here.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's a pleasure to have you on and I think we both know some of the places that we're gonna go today but who knows where we're actually gonna end up and that's always the fun piece 02:46 it's to see where the questions take us. And you know let's just start with the first one, the one that is probably the easiest. How did you get into the martial arts and when and why and all that?
Terry Dow:
I started martial arts in 1983 when I was 9 years old. It was a combination of two things I had an older half-brother who is in to the martial arts and he was about 6'6" and 200 something pounds and used to throw me all around, that's all older brothers do and so that inspired me to wanna I don't know I don't necessarily wanna say defend myself cause he wasn't me to me per se but he also brought home a Bruce Lee movie and made me watch it and I thought that was the coolest thing ever and then shortly after that was in 1984ish the Karate Kid came out I think so it was just kind of a combination of all those forces combining and my mom had grown up with a gentleman that taught martial arts in our neck of the woods and I guess bringing me there to take some classes and so started in kenpo when I was 9 and just never stopped.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well cool, do you remember what Bruce Lee movie that was any chance?
Terry Dow:
I wanna say probably Chinese connection but that could just because it's my favorite Bruce Lee movie, I don't know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But we're telling stories so by all means it'll be Chinese connection.
Terry Dow:
Right why not, nobody.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Stories don't always have to be 100% accurate to be 04:18
Terry Dow:
Right
Jeremy Lesniak:
Have you stayed with kenpo throughout I mean are you you know have you been on the same path or have you veered training?
Terry Dow:
You know we the 04:32 system that I grew up through you know I give a lot of credit to a gentleman named Sean Flanagan who became my instructor as a teenager the person running the school left and Sean took over and Sean was really the person who's the most instrumental in kicking me out the door to meet other martial artists you know knowing how much I enjoyed kicking, there was a seminar with GM Wallace going on in the next state over and we were actually weren't even allowed to leave our school to go do outside seminars. I'm sure some of the listeners are familiar with the systems where the master doesn't like you to leave because he doesn't want your money going to somebody else or possibly seeing something cooler than what we're doing you know in house but I give Sean credit because he knew that basically with my ability to kick and my desire to kick that I should meet Superfoot and so basically when I was 18 years old I met Superfoot at a seminar and I had already had his DVDs and videos and tried to work his chambering and kicking and I was at a seminar where not a lot of people could actually kick above the waist it was more of a self-defense system and so because I had my knee up I think Bill saw it in the first 10 seconds of being at a seminar and walked over to me and leaned on my leg and gave me a hard time that my leg's better be able to lift that high when we're done kicking cause most of you that know him from you know days of old there was just thousands of repetitions of kicks and slow kicks and endurance drills and so though I died we became very good friends and then through Master Wallace I met a gentleman named Soke Michael Depasquale Jr back in I say maybe 1984-ish time frame and the kenpo school that I was at really the curriculum kinda died and I was at 3rd degree black belt and really it was just rehashing moves, the instructor of that system had branched out from kenpo in the kung fu and a lot of after you get the black belt there really wasn't a lot of material to be learned and so I saw Soke DePasquale and I thought oh my god I need to learn how to do all these arm bars, chokes and throws I thought it was probably the coolest thing I'd ever seen and he lived in New Jersey and me being in New Hampshire really wasn't that far considering I had phoned to California to live with Bill so driving to New Jersey seemed like an easy, very easy thing to do so I drove monthly to New Jersey to do seminars he had a third Sunday work out every month or different instructors would come and teach all day and started following him around seminars and man I've met so many people you know through Master Wallace over the years. I start to came back around the kenpo through Hanshi Bruce Juchnik for my own development and understanding purposes of the concepts behind a lot of the old set techniques but I don't know I just love kicking people I love being able to be a part of Superfoot's systems in the capacity that I am and though I have a lot of instructors that I would train under and support 1000% much of my time and energy outside of running my own school is with Superfoot at the time.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay so I can imagine some people that are listening to this right now and they're bouncing up and down in their chairs or screaming or whatever over something that you kinda glossed over went to California to live with Bill, so can you go back a moment tell us what?
Terry Dow:
Sure, yeah it was pretty surreal for me as well you know Bill was really the first celebrity that I got to meet in the martial arts so they think just the common bond of kicking sort of brought us together and you know I said Mr. Wallace I'd really like to come train with you is there a way I could that and he said sure here's my phone number give me a call, we'll talk about it and so I left thinking you know what answering service am I gonna get when I call this number you know, What Jim secretary's gonna answer and you know so I waited a couple of days and then I said I don't know I'll give it a call and so it was actually Bill wasn't home the day that I called and I get his home answering machine and I almost dropped the phone like you know he gave me his home number is he crazy 09:16 what is he doing passing out his home number and we reconnected you know at the time he was traveling pretty much 6 days out of the week if not more so it's hard to catch him at home but when he did get home he returned my call right away and we talked I was in College at UNH at the time and it was around November and so we set up basically the following summer when I was on break from College that I would come out to Los Angeles and train with him and you know he would tell the story a little differently he jokes that I called him everyday to confirm that I was coming out next summer I just wanted him to remember who I was so about once a month I'd call I make sure you know are we really on are you sure you're training me next summer, this isn't some weird gimmick where you're telling me to come train and then you're not gonna be there and closer to the date of me flying out there he was teaching out of Benny The Jet's place which is the Jet center and 10:20 at the time and he said you know hey the house that I'm renting out here the guy's got an extra room if you'd like to take that for $300 a month I'm like excuse me I said that's cheaper than any place I could possibly go I think I'm just gonna move.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Terry Dow:
But I spent the summer out there with him and he was just such a phenomenal guy you know probably learned more when we weren't training just because I got to hang out with him and he wanted to make sure that I had a good time in my trip to California so you know we'd head out every morning grab breakfast somewhere and hit the driving range just talk stories and martial arts and at the time I had just turned 21 when I went out to train with him so actually I might have been close to 20 when I met him thinking about that story but regardless I had just turned 21 and it was I hadn't even left New Hampshire at that point I don't think other than a couple of family vacations so it was a pretty wild time for me and he was just an amazing person.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Wow well that's cool and the next question of course is your best martial arts story but I wanna twist that a little bit because one of the things that I don't want to happen, I don't want our listeners to think of you as just this secondary piece of Bill Wallace because you've got your own experience and if I'm doing the math right you had over 10 years before he was an influence on you and you certainly have your own school now and you do your own thing, but of course you do have this connection that none of the rest of us have that's pretty incredible. So, I wanna ask you for 2 stories.
Terry Dow:
Okay
Jeremy Lesniak:
I wanna hear your best story involving Bill that you're allowed to tell, cause I'm sure there are some that you're not and then your best non-Bill story.
Terry Dow:
Okay I had the Bill story actually pre-planned so the non-Bill story we'll come back to.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure
Terry Dow:
Yeah, I just told the story at Karate College, they were doing a little pre- birthday celebration for Bill and they asked me to speak and I will say that of all the teaching public speaking things I've ever done in my life it was the most the most intimidating to be standing next to Bill telling a story about him so it would be way easier now that we're on Skype. So, I was competing at this, this actually just comes around to one of my favorite quotes by him and that's why the story is funny to me so I was competing in the Battle of Atlanta probably in the mid to late 90s and he was watching really did he step in and actually be a coach on the floor because he had so many people that dealt with him that he didn't wanna slight anybody by favoring someone on the mat. So, he would sort of standoff to the sidelines and then you get yelled at for everything when you get out of the ring and so I had gone in to overtime with this gentleman. We were both kickers and we were both just going to town where the kicking and nobody was really scoring anything and I think he hit me with one back fist and I hit him with one back fist which brought us into overtime and then I ended up losing the match in overtime to a punch and so of course I walk out of the ring and he's get the death of stare like what is wrong with you you know so I walked over and so it is a 2 part story so the first part he says let me ask you one question I'm like yes sir? How many punches did you throw in your fight and I said one sir, of that one punch how many landed I said all of them he said what does that tell you? 14:20 I guess it tells me to throw more punches sir and it's just really and so everybody that walked by for the next 10 minutes Bill interviewed and if you're coaching a fighter and he throws a punch and he lands it what would you tell that fighter to do? And of course they all say punch again and he'd glare at me, it turned into this whole ordeal and so we're walking back to the hotel later and when I lost in overtime I had tried to hit the guy with a hook kick and I think I either threw it, I was trying too hard to win in front of him I don't know you know what it was but either way I'd over turned basically so that my back was to the guy and which allowed them to basically come through with his punch and so you know we're walking back and he's like what are you doing turning your back when you kick and you know turned into another lecture. I was like I don't know sir and so he has a couple left over t-shirts in a bag and he picks it up to hit me jokingly like you dummy and I flinched when he picked the bag up and he's like oh my god he goes to look at me, he goes it hurts the same whether you see it or not, keep your eyes open. So, he proceeded to hit me with a bag of t-shirts until I could keep my eyes open which is I can only imagine we're standing on a street corner in Atlanta and there was this gentleman hit me with a bag in the face I don't know what people driving by were thinking but I have to say one of my all-time favorite quotes of Bill is it hurts the same whether you see it or not, keep your eyes open. There may have been some profanity in the quote but believe it peasy.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And there's a fair amount of valuable teaching in there too funny or not.
Terry Dow:
Right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Keeping your eyes open.
Terry Dow:
Yeah it was really
Jeremy Lesniak:
Is it a little bit easier to adapt and I can, you told that well and I can totally see that and of course people that follow whistlekick offline of the podcast know that you know we met through us putting on a seminar with Superfoot and I was fortunate enough to get to know him a little bit and I can picture the facial expressions that you're talking about and I can completely see
Terry Dow:
Most of them I think were anger
Jeremy Lesniak:
I'm not surprised
Terry Dow:
You know Bill if you're, if you're just at a seminar or you're just you know learning from him he's extremely encouraging and not only does does he have a phenomenal eye for what you need to do to fix something but he'll find a way to make you feel good about something you do when you're you know being that I loved with him and was competing and going into kickboxing there's a completely different side of Bill that wants you to be the best and I mean I think he wants everybody at their best but when you're sort of representing him he's a lot more harsh let's put it that way. There's a private side that you wouldn't see in normally.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Do you think that comes from you know high standards and perfectionist?
Terry Dow:
Oh absolutely.
Jeremy Lesniak:
He seems to be pretty hard on himself.
Terry Dow:
He's the most self-critical person I've ever met in my life not you know not trying to sound bad but you know he I don't think he's ever been happy with anything he's done which makes the rest of us think like oh my god you know if you're not happy with what you're doing what the heck are we gonna do but he never looks at it that way you know to him it could always be better it could always be sneakier, it could always be faster. There's some aspect of it that he wants to improve about himself and you know and that's just contagious I mean when you see somebody that's that good, that still wants to improve it you can't help but wanna train hard and be the best that you can be you know not only for yourself but just you know for me it was not to let him down you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right well that's a great story and I’m hoping that through that you've had a chance of shift some of your brain into a non-Bill story. You got something for us there?
Terry Dow:
Oh jeez man there are so many, I guess I'll go back to I had just gotten my black belt and I think I got it at 15 1/2 so I was 16 because I just started driving and it was the summer time and as a black belt in our organization you could purchase a red karate uniform and it was the coolest thing that you know ever for me because coming up through the system we did it was you know white uniform at white and orange belt and black uniform at purple belt and blue uniform at blue belt and they I just probably think sales marketing more than anything else but we didn't know that as students we just thought ah so cool we need to wear this uniform and so I had the red uniform on and it was the middle of July and I was driving my truck back from a testing that I had helped out with and there's an intersection near my house that is it's flashing yellow light in my direction and a flashing red light in the other direction and an extremely large motor cyclist had pulled out to the stop sign portion of it and assumed I was stopping and I had shifted to look and see if people are coming from the other direction and I had slowed down to maybe 20 miles an hour cause I felt like somebody was gonna cut out in front of me and so this guy sure enough pulls right out in front of me. I slammed on the breaks I bumped his motor cycle and as a you know as a motor cyclist myself and I'm sure many of the listeners you know super protective of their bikes and so here's this kid you know that bumps into this big Harley guy's custom bike and of course drops it, nobody's hurt but he's just mad that I've hit his bike and the guy had to be 300 and something pounds and I being 16 weighed about a buck 20 and 6'1" he's gonna pull me through the window with one hand you know so he comes over to the window and he swear at me about hitting his motorcycle and blah blah blah and he gets to my window and in my mind his hand was reaching in the window now whether it was or not I don't know but he's reaching in the window and he sees the red karate uniform with the black belt on and he stops and he goes, you're a black belt and then I didn't even have words I'm so scared you know I'm just looking at the sky line nodded my head without opening my mouth and he goes oh and he turns and walks back to pick up his bike I was like oh my god I gotta tell my mom that just paid for every martial art lesson I've ever had. the red gi just saved my life.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So the moral of the story is that we should all be wearing the red gis because.
Terry Dow:
Yes, I'm thinking things with a lot of stripes I think
Jeremy Lesniak:
It'll avoid self-defense situations entirely so
Terry Dow:
I don't have any idea but that one saved me man I don't know I don't think any martial arts was gonna help against the angry biker that was 3 times my size at that point you know, there's a reason for weight classes and fighting you know I don't think I had a shot.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Absolutely well those are 2 great stories and I appreciate you sharing them and especially the one that I didn't really tell you you were gonna have to share with us when we'd went over all this but I wanna switch gears a little bit now and dig into who you are as a person and of course the martial arts has been a huge part of your life and you started you said when you were 9.
Terry Dow:
I was 8 yeah.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, there's not a whole lot of Sensei Dow before martial arts but if you could imagine what you would have been without it you know how would you say the martial arts has changed you?
Terry Dow:
Man it's changed everything I mean I was a shy nervous quiet teenager that you know even though I was taking martial arts as a teenager I was still really insecure and quiet and shy so let alone the fact that I was going to college for electrical engineering so I'd have I guess I had have done something completely different than martial arts had I not met Bill but you know my instructor was more of a guidance counselor and you know just helped through pretty much every day to day thing that a teenager could go through from lack of confidence asking out a girl to afraid of the bullies that are picking on you at school and you know I mean I'd go in the opposite I live school right to the karate school and Sean would be there to go what's up buddy I don't know and dragged all the info out of me and by the time I get to college I just had made a complete you know physical and mental change where I had received my black belt and I thought Jesus if I can do that I mean why am I nervous about anything else you know and at the time I got into the sport karate circuit and was competing around New England and occasionally flying to you know other places to compete and just knowing that I would end up competing at some point against the best black belts in the country in the circuit that we were on really made me look at every other real life situation completely differently I thought you know man I don't have to be bothered by this bully I mean like he had no idea what he's getting into you know I feel bad for this guy and it just gave me the confidence to walk away from everything you know I really don't have a lot of stories where I had to fight I was a pretty good talker and able to maneuver my way around a lot of things but yeah I mean martial arts really gave it all me let alone you know how uncoordinated I was so.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well clearly that part changed I can attest to that.
Terry Dow:
I don't know I still trip over things but I'd probably be dead if it weren't for martial arts so at least saved me with break falls, right?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, so there's a lot of high points that we've gone over a lot of fun points, let's go the other end how about the low points something rough, something challenging that your martial arts training and experience helped you moved through.
Terry Dow:
I think everybody has those low points for me and I can't think of a time you know obviously broke it up with the girl friend I was living with and living out of my office for a short period of time 24:40 gave me a place to live but you know always being able to channel negative energy and or aggression into you know going to the gym and hitting a punching bag and training and just focusing on being the best martial artist I could be I think saved me from any other outlet you know whether it would have been self-destructive or just you know feeling like I needed to go to the bar to fight somebody because I couldn't go train I mean I don't know who knows what those other outcomes would've been but you know there's certainly times where you know you're not in a relationship anymore basically no place to live but hey I got martial arts it's okay.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Were you an angry kid?
Terry Dow:
No, I don't think so.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Are you kinda, no okay. Sounded like you were hinting at that.
Terry Dow:
You know through the, through junior high and high school because I was quiet and shy I got picked on daily and I think that builds a certain amount of anger.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Terry Dow:
So I don't have a lot of tolerance for bullies so to speak but you know it took me till later in my high school days my physics teacher knew that I did martial arts and I asked on my senior year a couple of weeks before the end of my senior year asked if I would be willing to do like a seventh period assembly thing they used to do and they'd have different topics 26:11 would you wanna demonstrate some martial arts and I guess so and so she set this thing up for me and you know about a hundred kids that our school had about 250 kids per class in 4 years so it would be 1000 kids at the high school and a couple hundred of them came I think mostly from my senior class and of those people that came some of them were the very bullies and people that were picking on me and it was kind of ironic because I did all the self-defense demos and throwing people around and break the boards and the bricks and you do all that stuff and some of them actually came up to me afterwards and like oh man I didn't know you could do that stuff I shouldn't have been picking on you just kinda joking with me. I'm like great 2 weeks before the end of school 26:54 get you guys to lay off of me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Should've done this freshman year
Terry Dow:
Yeah, I should have done the demo way sooner and here I am thinking the demo's gonna get me picked on more you know but somehow worked the other way so yeah, I don't know man 27:08 say angry but definitely a lot of pent up stuff from certain experiences you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, I can relate to that you know I, sounds like our childhoods were pretty similar so I get it so other than I mean you're rattled off a few people that you've trained under who would you say and we're gonna take Bill out of this, other than Bill Wallace cause he's the I'm sure he would be the answer, who has been the most influential martial arts instructor for you?
Terry Dow:
Well I'll go back to Sean Flanagan because he's the one that pushed me out the door to meet Bill and he was the one that you know I came back from that seminar saying you know Superfoot wants me to come to LA and train he goes oh great when are you going, what do you mean when am I going? you know I don't know if I'm going and he's like Superfoot asked you to come train in California the answer is when can I get there sir not I don't know if I'm going and so you know he was really always the one to push me out the door and we both he and I both somehow met Soke Michael DePasquale at the same time and so you know I took that first seminar it was Bill Wallace, Joe Lewis and Michael DePasquale and guy named Bob McEwen’s Aikido school in New York and I got to train that was the first time I saw Soke Mike and you know I came back I called Sean immediately I'm like have you seen this guy cause oh my god I just met him last week I was like you're kidding and so the 2 of us sort of began a journey under him and Sean essentially I at least in my opinion you know kinda did what I did with Bill where he spent you know a lot more time going to Jersey and training with Michael but he was always the one that I could come back to and every time I thought I learned some cool new thing I'd show it to him and he's go like I told you that years ago oh I was too dense to understand your teaching then sir you know the we'd always compare notes and he was you know like I said just always if extremely positive motivational force he's the one that talked me into opening a school while I was in college and he said you know I know you're not sure what you wanna do but we wanna open a branch in Manchester New Hampshire and we'd like you to run it. I said oh me I don't know if I could run a school and he's like what do you mean you know he's like we'll guide you through every step of the way all you have to do is teach classes and listen to us well that can't be too hard to do if I just listen to you guys and teach so ended up opening my school and just you know again he was there to kinda guide the business aspect of it continue the training because Superfoot living in LA at the time I'm not gonna be able to fly out there on a regular basis so you know side bar I just kinda followed Bill whenever I could get to him after that you know we went on little mini tours where I'd go for a week or 2 weeks at a time on a seminar circuit because essentially he was teaching every single day of the week somewhere and he'd go regionally let's say he came out to you know New England so he'd do a seminar Friday Saturdays Sunday Monday Tuesday and we'd be in Massachusetts, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island so I'd just do a little mini tour with him but I'd always have you know Sean to kinda come back to keeping me grounded and helping me push with the you know the school stuff and everything back at home so to speak.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Are you guys still in touch?
Terry Dow:
Yeah absolutely I just saw him actually the Saturday of the seminar we grabbed a bite to eat after we hosted Bill a couple of weeks ago right before you guys so and talked to him at least weekly.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, he's still influential in your life?
Terry Dow:
Yeah. He's one of the best man in my wedding as well so.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh cool.
Terry Dow:
Me and my old training partner Jeff Littlefield I talk to and Jeff was great because he was always gung-ho about training hard and neither of us cared about the bumps and bruises of you know training to train with some reality and intensity and as you know some training partners you know don't want you to hurt them or touch them or they don't wanna spar or they don't want contact and so not only was I fortunate to have the teachers that I've had but to have my training partner you know Jeff and I were just crazy gung ho beat the crap out of each other that was awesome hug it out go grab a bite to eat you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's nice. So, we hinted a little bit about your time through competition but can you dig into that a little bit more and tell us about it.
Terry Dow:
Yeah you know I got I had some really cool opportunities through Superfoot again I met a gentleman named Don Rodriguez out of Rhode Island who at the time was the well he still is the 32:16 you know team captain and so we did a seminar down at his school and he pulled me aside after the seminar it was only about an hour and a half for me and he said anytime you wanna come down here and train you know it's helpful for me to have a kicker like you so we can sort of train against it so to speak and at the same time you'll get a lot of experience and so I was doing a lot of sport karate stuff at the time and then I started going down to his school every other week to sparring night which had maybe 30 or 35 people and then on tournament weekends it would have any of the John Paul Mitchel guys that were in town so I had just a fantastic opportunity to spar with all of the local team members who were just phenomenal and so I did you know the basically the mid 90s to 98 every karate tournament I could get my hands on and you know the mixed reviews of results so to speak anytime I was not fighting the Nationally ranked guy I would pretty much win easily and then if I was fighting the Nationally ranked guy it would be sort of a good battle but sometimes politics would go the other way and sometimes you know you're just those guys were just better at the time and so then I thought well you know if I kick box and I knock somebody out, there's no more politics and so I got into kickboxing again Don Rodriguez helped promote a couple events and get me some opponents and I had lost my first full contact match by a decision I had taught well I knew there was 10 seconds left in the final round and I knew I was ahead and I was exhausted as anybody that's had a first full contact fight will know how exhausting it really is your adrenaline just dumps everything and you pretty much just on you know over drive for the second part of the fight at least for me and so he threw a front kick and I just thought I'm just gonna bounce off the ropes and clinch and then the fights gonna end and then I'm gonna win cause I'm tired well the ropes weren't right behind me as I thought they were and so the front kick pushed me back and then I didn't bounce of anything and as I put my foot back it actually hit the ring apron and I slipped and fell thusly being called a knock down and so I get up we go back to the corner and coach says you know you had to fight one until about 8 seconds ago they're gonna call that a knock down you're gonna lose the round and because it's a knock down you're gonna lose the fight and so I was so depressed for weeks I didn't wanna talk to anybody I didn't wanted to do anything I didn't wanna train I was just mad at myself and so he calls me up and he said you know you had a phenomenal fight like you can't just be stuck in your own head and upset you gotta get back out there and I was like well yeah I know what you're saying you know and so a couple more months went by and Bill calls me up he says hey I'm gonna be down at the ocean state you gonna come down? I was like yeah of course you know we'll kick some people have some fun and so I went out about 4 days ahead or so to work out with the 35:33 guys and coaches on Christopher's says hey you're trying out for the 35:37 team I was like I don't know man and he's like what do you mean and I said I don't know for a trial 35:44 team and I haven't really competed in a while blah blah blah and then he just stopped and looked at me like I was nuts. He was like Terry there's nobody in the country that you're gonna have trouble kicking in the head what are you even worried about and I was like I don't know and so I was like I guess I'll try. So no we're going into you know three months of zero cardio and all this stuff and so I'm like well I guess I'll try out for the team and so you know Bill's standing off to the side and I'm fighting this guy that I was trying to 36:18 he's a really really good boxer when we're doing I was going for the continuous contact division of the team which is similar to kick boxing as a matter of fact if anybody's done it depending on your opponent it's exactly like kick boxing you know the referees some of them will just let you try to kill each other and as long as nobody actually gets hurt there is no warning for excessive contact and other referees you know if you touch the person oh wait take it easy just continuous but I only found one or two of those referees when I competed at continuous a lot of times I didn't pull a single thing and as far as I'm concerned neither did my opponents and it was just to me it was kick boxing you know and it was a cool outlet because you could do it on a fairly weekly basis if you could find tournaments that had continuous contact divisions so back to the story so I get into the thing I'm fighting some guy that's come up from somewhere in Georgia or something like that and he's got these really good hands and we're getting on the inside and I'm kinda clinching and just working the inside game and I think I stepped on his sparring boot or something and so we had to take a quick like time out to fix his gear and I'm looking over and guess what I'm getting the death stare from Superfoot. He was like get over here and so I ran over and I'm like yes sir he was like you and I are the only 2 people in this room that don't think you're getting 37:43 out of you he used to swear and so I was like what do you mean he goes I know you're blocking the stuff on the inside but how do you think the referees are gonna score this fight he goes get back out there and kick him I'm like yes sir and so they said go and I nailed him with a sidekick and dropped him and I thought what the heck was I doing you know I don't really know why I was fighting the inside game it was just you know I mean my head trying to figure out the strategy of the fight I knew this guy was good and I didn't wanna make a mistake and then it came down to as simple as dude just kick him you know and so I ended up beating him ad getting on the 38:18 team and that was in 99 early March of 99 where the trials I believe and the competition was set for Italy so I just had an amazing experience of being with the US 38:33 team fighting in Italy competing. I lost 2 of the Italian fighter in my weight class in Italy with Italian judges so it went to a decision I was mad at myself again because I felt like rounds 1 and 2 I've was pacing myself a little too much and round 3 I believe I won and same feedback from coach you fought him rounds 1 and 2 like you fought him in round 3 yes sir. So, I did a lot of focusing on my school after that opportunity to be in the world championships they were only a couple of years so I did a lot more focus on just building the school, building my students having some of them compete and then a few years ago my wife who had come to me years ago actually has a student. I don't know if that's taboo to talk about on the show but
Jeremy Lesniak:
39:26 we have no subject is off limits
Terry Dow:
You know how you get the what it the protocol stuff and I think I agree 99.9 % of the time but if it weren't for martial arts and my wife training with me I would never have met her and
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I think that's an important distinction your wife and now the mother of your child
Terry Dow:
Right.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't think that's quite the scenario those 39:50 to prevent
Terry Dow:
Yeah well either way she was competing and doing some kick boxing and she won a title a lightweight kick boxing title through an organization called girl fight USA which was run by Christina Rando down in Rhode Island and and so we I had her child for the kick boxing you know position on the US team in 2011 and she made and so you know I'm talking to coach Rodriguez and at the time I had secured a spot on the continuous contact team the same year by default nobody showed up in my division and so they were gonna break it up in the continuous contact I was gonna go to Macedonia and I thought where the heck is that and then the sport karate and the full contact teams were gonna go to Ireland and I was like I don't wanna go to Macedonia while you guys take my wife to Ireland. So, he said well there's you know if you wanna do sport karate again he said there's a guy in the light heavy weight division which was up about 10 pounds for me is the 190 division I was about 183 and he said you know basically I'll arrange a fight for you guys and the winner stays on the team and if you're on that you'll come to Ireland with us cause it's a different division I thought G that sounds fun. So, he set up a fight for me in Connecticut and I beat the guy and ended up on the sport karate side of the team and got to go to Ireland in 2011 lost to the Irish guy in Ireland I don't know what the heck it is with me going to World Championships and fighting the home team but
Jeremy Lesniak:
You gotta stay here in the US
Terry Dow:
Again, yeah, I mean the odds the 50 something country is that participate in the local world championships I've been twice and 41:47 the home country in the first round I don't get it. So, but you know it's all that joking aside it was just a blast and the guy that I fought was great we had an awesome fight and I felt much better about my 2011 performance at 39 years old than I did in 2009 so our 99 oh sorry lost a decade.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It happens it's okay.
Terry Dow:
So, Christina ended up fighting the European world champion who went on to the gold medal rounds so that was a great fight but unfortunately, we did not progress ourselves but just an awesome team atmosphere and now I'm still just traveling with Bill trying to basically show people how Superfoot's systems can work for them.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But we're gonna come back to that a little bit.
Terry Dow:
It's hard not to
Jeremy Lesniak:
The plug, the plug absolutely no I'm gonna give you some time and talk about what that's about but you've trained with some incredible people I mean let's, let's not discount that but if you could train with anybody you haven't whether they'd be alive or dead who would it be?
Terry Dow:
Let's say you know it's there's probably 2 answers for me only you know because when I was a kid it was a Bruce Lee movie that inspired me and following Bruce Lee's philosophy is essentially growing up after that for training I would have to say him just because you know that was instrumental in me getting involved in martial arts in the first place yeah I met 43:31 and trained with him briefly and I think that's probably the next best thing in today's age but digressing from that I think it would have to have been Bruce outside of the fact that I did get to meet Chuck Norris but not train with him and he was such a phenomenal competitor you know in late 60s early 70s and just such a super super nice guy and he and Bill are really good friends so I don't know that he trains anybody anymore or I would have the opportunity to do anything but that would be certainly a bucket list because he's a live you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right, well if you ever do get the opportunity to train with Chuck Norris you have to come on the show and tell us about it.
Terry Dow:
Alright.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We'll throw that in some mini episodes.
Terry Dow:
Sounds good.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because
Terry Dow:
I'll bring a hidden camera.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah go pro we will sponsor
Terry Dow:
He won't notice
Jeremy Lesniak:
37 cameras strapped to your body we'll capture it from every angle and release a 3D 44:29
Terry Dow:
Chuck's foot hitting me and then you'll ceiling.
Jeremy Lesniak:
44:32 who wouldn't wanna get knocked out by Chuck Norris I'd do it, would be incredible. So, you mentioned Chinese Connection as your favorite Bruce Lee movie is that your favorite martial arts movie?
Terry Dow:
It's one of them I think simply because you know I like the movies where the hero is the hero and he's for lack of a better way to put it you know already a bad ass sort of defending himself for the rights of others and that's just like the feel-good movie for me I don't like seeing the kid get picked on for half the movie cause even though the end of the movie is great it makes me mad for the first half.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah
Terry Dow:
And then you know segue to like a Jackie Chan because the movies are just so much fun you know he's just such an amazingly skilled person. The choreography is phenomenal and they're just fun to watch all the way through you know. So, I don't know that I could pick a title per se but if you have to pick a title I guess you can go back to Chinese Connection.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay how about our favorite martial arts actor is that Bruce Lee or is that somebody more modern?
Terry Dow:
No, I mean I don't know that Bruce falls into the actor category for me you know I mean he was just kind of a martial artist showing his system via some fight scenes in movies at least in the way I view it you know so probably Chuck because he's done so many different you know different things some of it being martial and some of it being comedy or action or drama I mean I think he's sort of my favorite over all.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay are you a book guy at all any martial arts books?
Terry Dow:
No, not really in my teenage years Sean made me read books and report back in on different philosophies but as part of my martial growth but quite honestly, I'd rather at this point zone out and watch a zombie movie or something than take too much time to sit down and I'm a slow reader so it you know if I get on a plane maybe I'll read and I'll get a chapter done and I go oh hey I'm in California like wow that went well so I don’t get very far.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's okay there's you know we get so many books recommended on the show often the guest have 2 3 4 books that my reading list for the next 10 years is probably full.See 47:07
Terry Dow:
Absolutely I appreciate that you give me a little bit of a reprieve for a week.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Read Ultimate kick by Bill Superfoot
Terry Dow:
I was even 47:19 gonna say it but that was my expectation when you said I'm not much of a reader but I was expecting that but
Jeremy Lesniak:
Give me a picture 47:25 oh look 47:26 kick someone in the head perfect. You could flip through it and see the fight scene and then you're done.
Terry Dow:
We should make a flip book see if I'll make a flip book which is no words.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Actually, we could just do that I just take a bunch of his pictures and stick them together, it's a great idea.
Terry Dow:
Funny aside I have had to get throw out at least recordings of pictures I've taken of him because his foot is too blurry. He's still so darn fast that with you know with my good camera with my good lens on the right settings I just I can't I can't even capture so definitely no way to block it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Nope not I mean you thing if you're a third person watching it out think yeah maybe but I’ll tell you what man when it's coming at you to this day he'll be 70 later this year and I don't have a clue where it's going and you know he jokes that neither does he but honestly, he has the best reaction to your reactions of anybody that I've ever met. I mean he literally senses what you're doing as you're doing it and changes the technique I mean he set his system up in a way that allows him to see what you're doing and then change midstream I mean you know the sneakiness on the step ups and the chamber positions give him the time to see what you're doing and then he just throws one of the other techniques that come from the same positions so I don't know that that will ever change if he can raise his leg I think we're all doomed.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Still yeah it makes you wonder you know what because you know you can watch a video and everything but of course a video back from the 60s and 70s wasn't as good you know it's a little bit harder to get a sense of speed frame rates 49:18 and everything but just to have experienced him in I wanna say his prime because that implies that he just
Terry Dow:
49:27
Jeremy Lesniak:
Nowhere near it and he's still take me to task but just to get a chance to work with him then to see how much faster even then he was.
Terry Dow:
Right I mean you can look at you know the video footage from 70s and 80s that's up on YouTube you can go back to Chuck's movie with him a force of one and kicking off the charts fast in that I mean there's 49:53 throws to somebody in a bar in that movie that just I thought oh my god you know I thought I was getting a hang of this stuff and then I watch that and I was like never mind.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah.
Terry Dow:
There's only one Bill.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's right, yeah and that's a great movie to watch for that reason I don't know if there's a lot of other great reasons to watch that movie. As one of our mutual friends who is also very close with Bill Wallace told me he said Bill why'd you make such a terrible movie? And Bill's response was because they paid me.
Terry Dow:
Great answer.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, I don't know if that really happened but it does seem to sum up that movie and of course if folks if you haven't seen that movie a force of one I'll link to it with all the other stuff that goes in to the show notes, you've gotta see it it's on Netflix. So, let’s take it back we got 2 more questions and then I'm gonna let you run loose and tell us about Superfoot systems and all these other great stuff that you and Bill are involved in. So, you're obviously still training, you're still teaching, you're still bettering yourself what keeps you going you got goals that you're trying reach what's you know what's next for you?
Terry Dow:
Yeah I mean 2 fold really obviously with my wife and now daughter here at the training station in Manchester we obviously wanna continue to inspire people and train them and motivate people and you know for us it's all about lead by example and make sure that we can do everything that we ask our clients to do and I had always found that you know looking at someone like a Superfoot where you know he just sets the bar so high that it's always inspiring because you just keep trying to do that you know and a few years back Bill basically asking me to you know take on a senior student position so to speak the best way I can think to put it you know really makes you for me I wanna be the best that I can be so that I don't let him down so that you know I can pass on the system the way that it deserves to be taught and so for that it really involves a lot of kicking and you know I don't do as much stretching anymore my I had a hip injury when I was teenager that hurts to get into a full split but you don't need to be in a full split 52:36 to kick somebody in the head and so you know my body's pretty used to being about 90% there and just doing all the moves and stuff so you know I still do a lot of training and teaching a couple competitors I had some MMA fighters that I was teaching for a while and you gotta show those guys how the kicks work and so you gotta stay on your game and make sure that you can demo on everybody you know if you watch super foot in the seminars he'll demo on every single person that he can and if somebody's even able to block a kick then you're his partner and he'll mess with you until he nails you and to him that training you know so there's always a way to have fun there's always something to improve, we're human which means we can't be perfect so we can always strive to be better so yeah my goals are just to be the best martial artist I could be to represent my teachers and to be able to you know have a business with my family and inspire and help as many people as I can. Martial arts did so much for me that I think I feel like there's a martial art for everybody. It may not be one of the ones I'm teaching per se but I encourage everybody to look at different options because they have different demands for training and some being physical some being more spiritual etcetera but I really believe that there's a martial art for everybody out there and so it's just, it just did so much for me I wanna do my part to give back.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's great and I appreciate you sharing all that. So now it's your turn I mean obviously we know a lot about you, we know about your association with Bill Wallace and if people didn't prior to this episode they do now
Terry Dow:
We're forcing it on them.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And yeah, we're cramming it down their throat, they're gonna have to listen.
Terry Dow:
Don't tell them there's a mute.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh no absolutely not and there's no skip or fast forward button on anything that you would play this podcast. Now the seminars are still a big part of his life and now your life so tell us what goes on at a Superfoot seminar and you know what are the relevant bits people might wanna know and maybe if they wanted to schedule one at their school.
Terry Dow:
Sure, yeah I mean at this point in you know Superfoot's career, he's trying to pass on the years of experience of basically teaching his material I mean he's honed it down to such a precise science of how to move and how everything fits together and how certain things are sneaky and how this sets up this and how you fake certain techniques I mean there's a physiological and psychological reason behind every single thing that he does, there's no, there's nothing that he hasn't thought out 1000% in the system the way that he teaches it in a seminar so you'll get flexibility from him, you'll get the sneaky techniques and the sparring techniques and the kicking techniques whether it's applied to full contact or sport karate or just you know bettering your kicks in general. There are days when he'll go through some of the old conditioning routines that he did which was really what allowed him to do so much kicking, recreationally not a lot of people wanna go through that same routine so we don't always force it on people when we're teaching if they are interested and catch us after about you know hey how do I develop endurance or how do I get my kicks better and then some drills may come up for how to do that but it's you know it's pretty grueling work if you wanna master it to the degree that Superfoot has and there's no shortcut and I think a lot of people hope that there is and there's shortcuts to be able to do certain things and having fun and understanding concepts and improving yourself but there's no shortcut to being as good as Superfoot and if you look at the history nobody has ever been as good as him in my opinion for kicking and you look at his training routine back when he was competing and it was just nuts. I mean it was hours and hours and hours of cardiovascular sparring, kicking you know he'd do 6 3 minute rounds of just kicking and every time he picked his foot up at least 2 kicks or more would happen you know take the average martial artist to say okay I’m gonna time you for 6 3 minute rounds and all you're gonna do is double kick and higher and he'll get 1 round 2 rounds into it and be dying and no offense to any of the listeners but...
Jeremy Lesniak:
And most of us would both legs and he's not.
Terry Dow:
Yeah right and so the endurance aspect of that you know so you know the bread and butter of the seminars is basically the science that Master Wallace has honed over the years and there's certainly a substantial amount of information and I've encouraged anybody that gets a chance to work with him to not only try to understand what minute science he's trying to teach but also in just asking him questions you know how to improve something, how, let him just look at your chamber or your knee position or your step up and then attempt to put the ego aside and listen to the answer and go work on that answer because that's the other thing is we all either think we're doing it or think that we understand that we're doing it right but in reality we've probably got some, what's the word for it I don't pre-determined thing in our head that keeps us from fully comprehending the complete lesson. I don't know how better to put it we you know there's gotta be some minute detail that could be improved and if you can you know humbly approach fixing that then a lot of progress will be made and if you think you got it then never mind.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I think that's great advice for anybody learning anything from anyone else you know to keep an open mind and to stay humble and be willing to receive that information but as you said and I just wanna piggy back on this or really just validate it cause I've seen it, how good he is at drilling into what's holding somebody back say try this make this adjustment which is not something you typically get at a seminar at least in my experience you know people would usually looking at bird's eye view concepts and he will go as deep into you as you need to get better.
Terry Dow:
What you get from Bill and what I mean by that is there are some teachers that are only going to show you a tiny piece of what they want you to learn and you sort of have to earn your way into what I would consider a close circle or inner circle of you know of the system to learn why things work or the way they are and with Bill you get everything I mean you honestly get every answer to the best of his ability to help you. Let alone the fact that you know some teachers are better at explaining than doing or some teachers are way better at doing than explaining anything that they've done and you get someone like Bill who's you know was a Phys ed teacher, has a master’s degree in physiology and kinesiology so he was already a teacher before you know really getting involved in a seminar teaching circuit or being a martial arts instructor so the teacher came first and all the science and anatomy came first and now it's just a huge part of what he conveys to people you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right sure and of course you know if somebody wants to book a seminar, there's a contact form at Superfoot.com
Terry Dow:
There is
Jeremy Lesniak:
We'll link to that page from the show notes which are whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, I'm sure listeners know that by now. So, cool any last words any parting advice?
Terry Dow:
I would you know honestly just say that when I met Bill I don't know that I believed that I would be able to train with someone like him and he was just such a phenomenal guy that once I had the guts to go and asked him to do it and found that it really wasn't that hard to do my advice to people really is you know if there's anything that you wanna do you know don't have any hang ups about it just go do it and you know I was lucky that Bill is such a nice guy and so my first shot at doing the training that I wanted to do worked out really well but I think that you know like every industry there's really nice people and the not so nice people and I think you know don't let the experiences of the not so nice people keep you from trying to find somebody else that's gonna take you under their wing like Bill did for me you know I guess I could try to end with a Bill Wallace quote and he had I won't tell the long story that goes with it but the punch line basically is there are 2 types of people in this world, there are people that say I did it and there are people that say I could've done it, he said don't ever be one of the people that says I could've done something and because of the scenario that caused that advice it stuck with me you know very true to my heart and I think that you know it's really important for people to just try to do something try the best we can don't look back on life and wished that you had taken more time to do something with your family or taking more time to learn an art or you know whatever it is just be able to look back at life and say man I did the things I wanted to do and feel good about it.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Thanks for listening to episode 23 of whistlekickMartialArtsRadio and thank you to Sensei Dow. If you liked the show please subscribe so you never miss out in the future and if you could help us by leaving a 5-star review wherever you download your podcast, it would make a difference. It's those reviews that help new listeners find the show and you might hear us read yours on the air, if we do go ahead and email us at info@whistlekick.com and you'll get a free prize pack including a shirt, water bottle, stickers and more. You can check out the show notes with photos and links to everything we talked about today at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. While you're there if you wanna be a guest on the show or you know someone that would be a great interview please fill out the guest form and don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter so you can keep up on everything whistlekick. If you wanna follow us on social media we're on Facebook, twitter, Pinterest and Instagram all with the username whistlekick. While you're at it check out the great stuff we have at whistlekick.com, gears, shirts, pants and a whole bunch more. All made for martial artists by martial artists. So, until next time train hard, smile and have a great day.