Episode 20 : Grandmaster Victor Moore
Grandmaster Victor Moore: Episode 20
Victor moore with Bruce Lee
So he got ready to walk away. I said wait a minute - hold it Bruce. Let me show you how it's done.
Victor Moore Trains Chimpanzee
This episode is with an amazing man, GrandMaster Victor Moore. Often referred to as Vic Moore, this man is the real deal and some have referred to him as "the Jackie Robinson of Martial Arts." I must confess that I originally found some of his stories difficult to believe. When we first spoke, which was a week before we recorded this episode, I was floored at what he said. After that lengthy phone call, I went off to do some research. I scoured the internet and spoke with martial artists that remember the 60s and 70s. I came back with a unanimous sentiment - GrandMaster Moore is the real deal, and what he says is the truth.There are a few people in the martial arts that have interacted with a number of the greats. We've had some of them on this show, but no one to this time has known more of the greats than this man. I had a lot of fun listening to his stories, and you'll hear through the episode that I learned to just listen when he spoke. Even today he is a force in the martial arts and one that I was honored to speak with.We discussed quite a few famous people in this episode, including Bruce Lee, George Dillman, Rod van Clief, Skipper Mullins, Jhoon Rhee, Melvin Wise, John Osaka, Ron Williams, Ray Hughes, Harvey Eubanks, Mike Foster, Ed Parker, Robert Trias, Joe Lewis, Mike Stone, Bill Wallace.
Show Notes
Traditional World Karate Association - TWKA.co https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nik8VQAcuGEShow TranscriptYou can read the transcript below or download here.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hello everyone and thanks for tuning in for episode 20 of whistlekickMartialArtsRadio. The only weekly podcast dedicated to bringing you amazing stories from traditional martial artists. I'm your host Jeremy Lesniak and I'm also the founder of whistlekick, makers of the best sparring gear on earth as well as great apparel and accessories for traditional martial artists. You can learn more about all of our products including our newest one whistle bar the only nutritional bar made specifically for martial artists. They're great for adding protein to your diet or when you just want something quick on your way to training at the studio. You can learn more about them and everything else we do at whistlekick.com and you can learn more about the podcasts including all of the past episodes show notes and a whole bunch more all for free over at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. While you're on our website don't forget to sign up for our newsletter full of information, discounts and lots of other useful martial arts content. If you're an Android user you can check out our new Android app on the Google Play store just search for whistlekick. It's an easy way to stay connected with the show and it's free. And now to the episode. This week's episode is with GM Victor Moore. GM Moore has led an exciting life and is a walking encyclopedia full of reference to the martial arts landscape in the 60s and 70s. He's trained with numerous greats and fought and won against a ton of names you'll recognize. I was in absolute awe just recording this episode. Now to be fair some of GM Moore's claims are huge in fact they're big enough that I had to check them out. But I can honestly tell you this guy is the real deal. He's the Jackie Robinson of martial arts and someone that every martial artist should know about and with that GM Moore welcome to whistlekickMartialArtsRadio.
Victor Moore:
Yes, thank you I'm glad to be here.
Jeremy Lesniak:Well I'm glad to have you here. I'm looking forward to hearing some of your great stories and I'm sure the people listening are as well. But I'd love for you to start by telling us how you got started in the martial arts.
Victor Moore:
Okay well we've got going back many, many years back in 1950 before most of you guys were born and I was as a young 02:20 and my older brother he used to grab on men and throwing me around and all and one of the bigger boys said he's gonna teach me some jujitsu I say some what? He says jujitsu I say what is ju ju zu 02:48. He said well it teach you how to fall, and how to throw. I said well we all know how to fall 02:56 you do is fall you say no you gotta learn how to fall safely. Your brother 03:03 swinging you around and you know how to fall so we had to 03:09 showed me to the correct way, how you had to roll and how you had to slam in the ground cause we don't have mats, so we're working on the grass outside 03:29 mainly and that was the beginning so grab 03:35 doing some of the 03:38. So that was my little beginning and going to the YMCA also one of the directors he was 03:54 judo I say well I know some of the juju stuff he said no this is judo it's a little bit different you wear a garment here and you gotta hold it a certain way well in jujitsu we just grab a person and grab them by the hand and take them down, anytime we can do 04:18 . Well Judo is more of systemized sport or 04:27 different so but I say I got started in my judo so here I am a young kid growing up doing judo and jujitsu and at the same time lifting weights at the YMCA at an early age at the house I had a coal bucket cause we had to carry coal to keep the house warm from the basement to the first floor I have a bucket and I used 05:01 with it and 05:04 so it was kind of a treat to be at the YMCA to be able to lift weights
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah
Victor Moore:
And learning all this judo and jujitsu stuff combination so I'd start tapping my brother so he was pretty amazed that I could keep up with him now and then swing him around 05:24 get stronger as of young age and doing all this judo and jujitsu and I just 05:35 year after year going to 05:37 and showing some of the same stuff as far as me and 05:51 jujitsu and judo you know we didn't have karate like them.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't wanna gloss over that because I think that's an important point to bring up so what year is this that you're saying that there wasn't any karate.
Victor Moore:
06:14 back in the 50s, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55 years after year then well it was 56 when I started the actual karate classes. Oyama he had come over here in the late 50s and all and he was demonstrating karate well this was something new to me, pretty much to everyone you know who's this guy 06:49 with his bare hand and he's throwing kicks and punches I say this guy doing some dirty fighting I say you 06:59 because when I was coming up you couldn't split, you couldn't flap and you couldn't kick and you never 07:12 that was the rule of fighting.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Victor Moore:
Well those guys were 07:18 bulls and everything else. I said I think I would like to learn some of that stuff. Nowhere in town the city of Cincinnati had any karate or judo at the time and one day I went out my back yard looking up on the hill from my house where we were living at there was a fellah doing these karate moves which I learned later was katas and doing basic techniques his name was Ryan William, older gentleman he was as his occupation he 08:09 for a living so we make 08:14 bigger and I went up the hill and watching him and seeing what he's doing different stuff, he's doing stuff like that guy was demonstrating on TV and I asked him if I could do some of that 08:33 son no getaway kid you're too young. Oh, come on I wanna learn some I kept bugging him everyday when I got home from school he's up there so I would go up the hill and we're just out in the woods cause you know there was no dojos at the time, I don't mats and stuff 08:56 in the woods on the grass. But I kept bugging him and bugging him till he finally decided he's gonna teach me a lesson so he got this young boy over there and start kicking and punching and help me doing all the kind of exercise 09:17 on trees climbing 09:22 and doing pull ups on branches and stuff and I'm asking is all these necessary he say yeah you gotta be in shape and we always had to clear off a porch that we were working in, that we were working on in we had to 09:43. Well 09:46 procedures you know so where is the mats there, we don't work on mats, work outside in the grass so that was the beginning so I'm chopping on trees and back in the days you have the heart in your hand and learn karate that was all part of it and I got to be pretty good at it. He's saying he wasn't gonna get me in the court that kept coming by so doing all these hard exercise and push-ups and throwing punches to me and kicks and all and I'm taking it. I was pretty 10:32. So he decided he would teach me I would be his guinea pig 10:43 and he had a younger brother, his younger brother decided that he wants 10:52 so we became his students, so back then the instructors training pretty much for themselves
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure
Victor Moore:
And you just kinda followed alone and he would have you doing stuff but he's gonna use you and throw the punches 11:12 blocker or else you're gonna get 11:17
Jeremy Lesniak:
Being a 11:21 was a whole different experience back then it sounds like.
Vic Moore:
Everybody had to go through that back in the days as we think so that was my beginning and that was he was showing he had to learn in the military he has just gotten out of the military and then he was saying everybody in the military had to learn this stuff here and had to learn how to beat the Japs and all and we have to use those hand to hand combat stuff and they would go to different schools, we met different masters and we was able to train in different styles we went here and there and travel around 12:01 we were able to learn different types of kempo what they would call it back then so one day he would show us on the fall system which was very different than the heart system another day he's showing us the heart system12:25 system we had to learn all about the body 12:28 where to strike, how to strike, how to 12:31 and how to focus 12:34 and this and that. I had to get a bucket 12:43 full of sand I had to poke your fingers in the sand that's supposed to toughen up your hand which is 12:51 strengthening your fingers learning how to hold your fingers together for what is known as 12:59
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah
Victor Moore:
And then we had a little, well we had another bucket full of little rocks and stuff and we had to punch on it on the hard base so toughening your hands was also just as much hard of karate as your stances and blocks and strikes.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It certainly sounds like a different world back then you know now where we talk about protective gear you know of course whistlekick makes protective gear and training on mats and here you are outside not even using you know 13:46 you're using a bucket of rocks and sand and your training on the ground
Vic Moore:
And we had to learn how to hit hard we had to hit trees as I said and to knock the bark of a tree. Then we turn around and we had to learn how to spar and make light contact or hard contact or a no contact. What does it mean no contact? Even though we're learning how to 14:21 self-defense it wasn't nothing about sport there was no tournaments back then. 14:30 self-defense on the street, if you're gonna be attacked or if the Japs gonna come back over here and try take over our country we have to know how to defend our self but then practice we had to learn how to 14:45 our punches so we had to be 14:48 full focused blow and stop 14:52 contact without 14:55 and on another day we had to make light contact another dar hard contact another day no contact so here they learn control because if they do it and learning control we would kill each other and we have to show that we could kill each other by being able to beat on hard streets and rough and dig our hand on to the sand everyday and he 15:27 with set of files hard files and I had to beat my hand on these hard files 15:36 my hand and my hand as a young judo snapper.
Jeremy Lesniak:
How old are you at this time?
Victor Moore:
I'm 13, 14 years old and I'm built solid as a rock from all these lifting at the YMCA you know lifting heavy coal buckets at the house and doing all these exercises and all. Where my parents didn't take too much of a liking to all these lift training and abuse that I was 16:11 and now beating my hands on hard files, boy are you crazy why are you doing it? 16:19 And why are you beating your hands like that 16:23 already digging them in sand so that was kinda naive to them but this was all part of the training that we had to go through and I have developed my hands, I had calloused on my knuckles after a couple of years and had my hands tough and then 16:47 one day 16:50 and there was opening a judo school 17:00 we can't stop here you know where we 17:05 up town and the white section of town where black folks didn't go. You got to the town and there's certain stores that let you do some shopping there, you can't get out here 17:19 oh but there was a judo school I wanna go in there and you know you can't go up here that was 17:30 and one day I got 17:33 and I went on up town. I wanted to go in this white man 17:41 which is a no, no back in the day and this is 17:47 fixed this now and here was a judo school opening up and I went up there a couple of times and I asked him if I could come in and well okay 18:01 let me come in I wanna participate pretty much had to take 18:11 with his students 18:13 6 people white people on the judo mat. I already know some of the judo, you do? what do you know? I know 18:28 let me see so I'd taken my shoes of and getting on the mat I'm doing my break falls back ward break fall forward break fall 18:43 break fall 18:46 hmm how are you doing that, how do you know that? Well I had a fella showing me, I'd been doing it for a long time. I also know some karate, we don't do karate here so they let me join the judo school and there again I become 19:09 I'm the one that they try to come up to and so to practice their throws so it's a good thing I do my break falls 19:20 but they all throwing me so I'm the one that was their guinea pig 19:31 and I took it very well I was pretty much disciplined but my parents was strict 19:37 showing me his karate 19:43 so I could take it I was already 19:48 and say and that type of stuff but they 19:57 and as they say at this time blacks didn't go into a white man establishment and then to be grappling and throwing people a black person throwing a white person was not too well accepted but in the judo school it was okay. So that was big beginning and there we had mats and I was practicing in my karate gi I didn't have a judo cause gi I had the only a karate gi so I had to get me a judo gi. The judo instructor was Ray Hughes so that was my first official judo instructor you might say in a dojo 21:05 a lot more rules that we had to go through cleaning the floor and cleaning the windows and, sweeping the mat yes sir 21:19 2, 3, 4 you know so I was indoctrinated really good with it and 21:27 that I could show all the right discipline. I was shown 21:33 just as well as anybody I was already versed with a lot of it learning the counters and stuff so I became very efficient. There Harvey Eubanks and 21:52 came in and they wanted to start a karate program, 21:58 kempo program, Japanese kempo program and later it was well Shotokan and Harvey Eubanks was doing goju karate and I 22:19 open up in the back room of the judo school because there were no karate schools and as you ask you never 22:28 you know we started our karate in the back room of judo schools somebody would come in they are teaching a little karate, so.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's quite the turnaround from the way things are now, isn't it?
Victor Moore:
Oh yeah yeah so everything was judo and I had been accepted in to a judo school and now here they're doing this karate that I liked more so and they had to accept me into the karate group which they only had a handful of guys 6, 4, 5 guys in the karate program so they accepted me in again so I'd 23:09 and go into the white man establishment and mingle with their group and here you gonna be 23:13 blows for the white people hmm I had to think about that, then I was accepted in 23:21 was real strict I would stay in a suite and clean and 23:28 discipline. We're learning goju karate 23:35 he had another style of karate that he wanted to be the dominate one teaching this other Japanese karate. Well 23:50 style of karate where we're gonna be studying and it's saying that build the matrix 24:01 most of us would be more of the Shotokan style of karate than the goju style and the Shotokan more or less became the dominant style of karate and we would 24:21 and then a gentleman from China 24:30 came to the university of Cincinnati as an exchange student and he had a total different system but it was familiar to me because it was on the Chinese system 24:47 moves, 24:48 hand blocking and striking and fingertip 24:54 sweeping and circling motion and all oh yeah I’m familiar with this . Well.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What year was this? What year was that with the Chinese gentleman?Victor Moore:
62 or so 63, 62 and here he was as an exchange student at the University of Cincinnati and he would come down on certain days and started showing us this form of karate that is said to be the first almost karate ever. Well what is it, it's Chinese 25:38 well this training was harder than even build a matrix 25:48 just became the more dominant style even though the students we have to kinda 25:55 up and look wide eye and see if we kinda go through it and take it we were getting beat with a bamboo stick. We're already doing push-ups, for now we're doing fingertips and risk push-ups, knuckle push-ups and weird jumping, lifting the leg up over a rope and we had to spar 26:19 you can't be running you can't be moving, you start off with maybe 2 feet distance away from each other with the 26:32 rope tied at your feet and you had to tie one 26:41 together so you had to learn how to saw 26:46 and you're right there nose to nose with him. 26:49 proved to be very 26:57 karate career I think that's why I was able to win so many tournaments and 27:07 drop kicks and all because of that close in fighting 27:18 fight on our knees we had to learn to fight laying down we then he said you're not gonna be always be standing and you gotta learn how to fight from any position. Well with 3 forms of karate trying to take place in a dojo who's gonna be the dominant one he's saying too and then the dominant one but eventually the school finally closed it, broke up and I went searching around the city of Cincinnati trying to find another judo or karate school and there was a judo school I 28:03 he has a nice big judo program going and I jumped in to that and then all of a sudden here comes a fella 28:21 and he's teaching another style of karate Shorin ryu and he had 28:31 and these karate instructors back in the days as we can say 28:46 have the data was crazy. They wanted to see how far they can get the students to quit. There was no see how many students you can get it was an attitude of how long are they gonna stay. 29:07 number maybe a dozen or 2 but you end up with only 4 or 5 students cause everybody had to quit, the training was just too 29:25 and we had to go outside on the car and run around bare footed, taking laps around the dojo, inside the dojo whereas karate was being taught was always on a hardwood floor. Now that's why a lot of our 29:48 we prefer at hard wood floor because that's what we were trained on.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sir, this is probably the best martial arts origin story that I have ever heard and I know you've got a ton of other stories I wanna make sure that we have time for some of those so I want you take a moment and think what is your best story, if you only had one story to tell and you'll have a chance to tell some others we could boil it off to just one, what would say your best story is?
Vic Moore:
Oh, I'm laughing at it because 30:27answer that would always come to my mind and that was the first grand national USKA tournament in the United States. One of the first tournaments in the United States is in 63 up in Chicago Doctor Robert Trias world championships and then 64 likewise in Chicago and then 65 he changed the name and from the World Championship it was the Grand Nationals so that was the first Grand National tournament which was held in Miami Florida in 1965 and people had been invited from all over the world and there was this one fellah big Mike Foster yeah I don't hear too much about big Mike Foster but back there in the day that was the man he was 31:33 a giant and weighing 170 31:41 pounds 31:44 and just knock his feet in wiggling in on you throw a side kick and you couldn't get away from it because he would be up against the 32:01 you will be outside 32:03 he has such power and he was breaking people ribs you know, 32:11 contact was permitted but not this match
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right
Victor Moore:
32:20 back in the day 32:23 used to be right outside 32:27 be right at the door and there was 32:29 people 32:31. Well Big Mike Forster was undefeated he has won all of his tournaments over in Japan he was doctor satoshi's bodyguard entourage when he came to the United States that was 4 or 5 32:51 and he traveled around with him, He won the tournaments up in Canada because Canada had more tournaments than well they were the first one to have tournaments before even the United States cause we used to travel up to Canada and competed 33:14 tournaments 33:15 and people liked it 33:20 first tournament and then Chicago well this was one of the biggest tournaments in the United States cause it had been growing people there are from Canada and Venezuela and Japan, Korea and there's Big Mike Foster and he had done got down to the finals and I had gotten to the finals and I was weighing in about 170 pounds, 5'8", 5'9" so I was a little midget compared to him.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You had 100 pounds on you?
Victor Moore:
Yeah back in the day Jeremy, we didn't have weight division.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay.
Vic Moore:
This day and time you all got all these different weight divisions and so many divisions that everybody wins a trophy, everybody, there's only 3 or 4 people in a division where back then we had 15 and 20 people in your division that you had to go through before you can even place. Well I was in the finals, he was in the finals we 34:33 to the final match and I haven't seen how he's knocking everybody out and breaking ribs and 34:40 well I used to go up into a 34:44 stance in a crouch and I bring my hand up and 34:49 the position 34:51 45 put my hands down on a cross so I could cover and bring my knee up almost in my chest so you couldn't get in on me I was hard to be able to get in on but I remembered this match because he was so powerful he coming on he'd do one cross over and throw that side kick and he hit my arm and it was so much force I sailed out of the ring I said ohh 35:35 I came back in, I jumped up on his 35:46 I swung around to his back I chopped him on the neck I dropped down I went through his leg, his drop kicks 36:00 there's jump kicks I was all over him like a mice on 36:10 he never seen so many techniques thrown on a person in his whole life he said that was the best he had ever seen in his life.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And it pains quite the visual I can imagine you taking all this 36:31 from this large man.
Vic Moore:
I said I can't let him touch and I knew how to sweep but he was too powerful to be swept so I had to jump on him I threw jump kicks I had to do ridge hands, chops, I did all kind of techniques and I ended up beating him and that placed me as the first African American grand national champion in the world.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Wow
Vic Moore:
The first USKA grand national champion so a lot of my titles just came from that match. The newspaper did a lot of interviews on me, there's a 37:21 that is circulating on YouTube here and there so that was one of my most devastating matches I mean those I knew if he had been able to hit me it would probably take my life out but with all the different techniques that I was throwing that was one of the most exciting matches. I got quite a few of them but that was one of the first ones and most exciting one. But back in the days Jeremy there was so many good fighters, there was oh people from New York like Thomas Lapuppet and Rod van Clief 38:14 Jimmy Jones and out of Chicago and out of rocket mountain region 38:25 and out in the west coast there was Steve Sanders, 38:29 there were just so many good fighters 38:34 over in Pennsylvania 38:41 oh it was just so many good fighters and Alan Stein, Chuck Norris, Joe Lewis, Mike Stone. Well when we went to a tournament all of these guys just about over here now the used to go to a tournament that made me wanna to you know good champions there and everybody else is from down the street around the corner, his neighbor his dojo you know it's really no competition but back then in the 60s in the early 70s everybody was, there was tournaments almost every week but there's the same people. Now you talk about well this is a national tournament this is a world tournament they have tournament down they label as world championships and there's nobody there from another country, nobody there from hardly from anybody even from another state and everybody is from the same neighborhood it is about and they call it a world tournament where back then there will be people from all over different country and different parts of the world but you have so many champions just for you to place in a tournament you've done something.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Vic Moore:
It wasn't a matter that you win 40:12 that you place and if you place wow my hats off to you. So that's what we had to go through and coming up in tournaments.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You just rattled off a ton of great names, names that I'm sure people listening will know quite well. But one of the things that's clear for anybody that knows you or has talked to you or I guess knows your history is a better way to put it, knows that you sparred with and...
Vic Moore:
And beat everyone up.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Beat all of these people so I'd like you to take a minute and tell us about that, you know as I researched about you you know of course we spoke last week but I spent some time
Vic Moore:
41:05 spit out a few names let's go back 1965 like I said beating Big Mike Foster and he had never been defeated. I'm the only one who first won to defeat him for years and years but at that time he had never been defeated, that's in 65, 66 I defeated the old Hawaiian champion at Daniel 41:27 tournament which was the USKA World Championship in 66 so there I was you know then in '67 Bruce Lee has the challenge of National Champions at the International 41:46 and that came about because he had been making movies and people was asking how fast is he for real to see for real is that all real and how good is he well his promoters wanted to prove that he could stand up against those national champions well 42:10 stated that he had a movie star here Bruce Lee and he's challenged any of us national Champions to a speed match to see how fast he really is. Well nobody jumped at his challenge as who wanna get up there, everybody more or less were 42:35 him as some of the guys were saying but who was he, he's never defeated anybody he ain't got no name he's a movie star 42:43 maybe a movie role 42:49 and I hate all these stupid champions out there and everybody's looking around, who is this guy you know he's a movie star 42:59 well Ed Parker was getting a little disgusting he says he was walking by where 43:10 and he looked over Robert Trias GM Robert Trias who brought karate to America in 1946 who was my main Sensei and to this day I give him credit for making me a super champion 43:27 nobody accepted his challenge maybe he's just as fast Robert Trias says I get some guys right here 43:38 Simmons, Jimmy Jones and Vic Moore my three top man here either one of them I bet can keep up with him do you think so ain't nobody jumping to his challenge. Master Trias says yeah I know so Ed Parker says we'll put 43:57 Master Trias says 43:59 going up there so this guy who we really are 44:07 either one of all three 44:16 at the same speed all three of us were super champions 44:20 Simmons one of the fastest guys in the country and Jimmy Jones from Chicago just as fast and Vic Moore 44:28 from Cincinnati all when we went to tournaments a lot of times they would say all three 44:36 no need for us to even compete because one is gonna get first one gonna get second one gonna get third they called us the three musketeers, we beat every tournament we went to. I placed in every tournament that I've competed in well so Master Trias knew who we were and he said one of y'all get on up there again we waiting at Vic get on up there and I would say no to him I wave my hand he says Vic get up there well45:12 Master Trias was so I get up and Bruce Lee says he's gonna step back 4 paces he's gonna come in and gonna hit me in the chest not hard 45:28 you know and I won't be able to touch it and I said repeat that you know pretty much for the crowd in here but he started laughing you know and he repeated and I said to myself now how in the world he's gonna get back and tell me how to hit me in the chest and I ain't gonna be able to touch it that's I said to myself lightning is fast but I damn had to keep up with it and then he gets back and he said you're ready I said yes, he comes in lightning speed punches at my chest and I blocked it 46:07 one of the finest blocks we've got and I'm already excited the whole crowd woohhh whaa did you see that? 46:17 and Bruce Lee a little bit embarrassed he said well Moore we'll try it again, he goes back he comes in I'd see 46:27 he's coming in with right hand here he comes, he comes in lightning speed and I blocked it even faster bhaam the whole crowd 46:46 well Bruce Lee is embarrassed, he reached out and tapped me on my right arm and he said boy you're fast, you're one of the fastest American I ever seen. Well they would stop him so he said well we'll do it again but he never asked me if I was ready which was okay I glanced off with my eyes cause somebody up in the audience says 47:11 it's a whole bunch of noise and I just kinda glance off with my eye at this time he strikes at my head with a backhand strike and then it never came close enough but I had just swung 47:26 and he steps in and close 47:30 was close enough to you and I started laughing at him and I'd say now what is that you've seen I wasn't ready and I took my 47:40 you're supposed to be punching to the chest and here you are trying to sneak one in at the head and I 47:50 there when I'm laughing 47:51 and then you know I just bowed to him and said okay 47:55 give you that one then you know he said well so he got ready to walk away I said wait a minute ho ho hold it Bruce let me show you how it's done. Oh well 48:09 I said no no come on you do your punch I'm gonna give you that one 48:16 you just tried to sneak that one 48:19 now I'm gonna show you how it's done, you block mine. So, I get back to the same distance and I come in I said you're ready he said yes, I come in get 48:28 your body 48:29 a lot of times people ask me how do you move so fast how do you win so many tournaments and all the lighter your body the quicker you can move. 48:41 it's so hard you're slowing yourself down, does that make sense to you Jeremy?
Jeremy Lesniak:
It does.
Vic Moore:
Okay so I'm lose as a goose I'm just so light I said you're ready. I move in and I hit him in the chest boom and I'm out he missed, he's swinging he missed. I say hmmm okay I say we'll do it again well okay so he's ready 49:05 I move again in lightning speed I hit him harder and 49:15 boom he missed again I said to myself whoo wow boy 49:18 everybody's whooping and howling, stomping and howling and yeah Bruce Lee about to have tears in his eyes I swear to God and my mother and father his grave. He's so embarrassed he wanted to walk out I said well come on we'll go one more time Bruce you went 3 times I'll go 3 now that's alright so he finally said okay well I was feeling so sorry for him cause he was looking so sad and embarrassed I just threw a regular punch to see if he can block that which he did that's why I advertise I beat him 4 out of 6 times, giving him that one well one of the fellas Frank Duke 50:05 in California he had called me and he said the two of us see that one punch that he tried to sneak in at your hip did you ever notice 50:17 I said well it did never come close well he said we'll slow it down look at putting on you vcs and slow it down and see he's 2 feet or so away from you I said well I know he never came close by that I never paid that much attention to it. I looked at it my seat and this is still owned video of what they show whether it's a 50:43 I'm 2 foot behind the line you'll see a line on the floor and he's 2 f00t on the other side, we're 4 feet distant, he comes in and he swing with a back hand strike and it stops 4 and a half feet away I said if he passed that line I'll give him credit for at least that back hand strike that he tried to sneak when I wasn't looking he never even came close enough for that to even count because he never even passed that line and if you see it now I can see it behind the line so he's 2 feet away from me and he only came to the line so he's 2 and a half feet away from me but then he steps up close to me like he might have been close which is all Hollywood trick 51:37 close enough to hit a person
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right
Vic Moore:
and I looked at that and I played well about 50 times and I played it over and over and over. Well the first punch will be through to my chest how do you tell there is a person walking to his seat in the back ground and got a white shirt on and he's going up the bleachers and when he came in for the second punch the person in the bleachers with the white shirt he had crossed over going to his seat and then he sits then you see Bruce Lee's pat me on my right arm you slow it down freeze it frame by frame he's patting me on my right arm. Why is he patting me on my right arm? That's when he's telling me how fast I was then that one punch that they show over and over like he’s getting 3 and 4 punches in on me which is bow faced 52:34 never ever come close but in the back ground there is no more movement as the same movement as the same, you see me bending over further and further but it's the same punch, the same back hand strike and if you take a marker pen on your camera I mean your TV or whatever you're looking at and you sort of 53:01 where his head is where my head is where his hand is where my hand is you would see it's the exact same spot so that tells you it's the same punch over and over you cannot throw 4 or 5 punches in your hand `your head and your every movement on each person is in the same spot.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, they edited the footage to because Bruce lost and they didn't want the world to see that.
Vic Moore:
Now but they would only be showing my punches when I hit him they don't even show that but wait a minute hey
Jeremy Lesniak:
Cause they're too fast.
Vic Moore:
Hey, wait a minute what about the part that Vic Moore 53:39 they gotta clear that up the punches that are blocked but from the angle that they wanted to show it from you can hardly tell. All you can see is the movement but we're both moving so fast you know damn, you can't really tell them that but that one punch they get it at an angle from a 90 degree angle and he's looking like he's coming close but they just see on the line there's some line on the floor he never even passed that line he never get close to me and they showed that over and over but people are too gullible they don't slow it down put it on slow frame you go click click click click click and freeze it and even there's a one inch punch, it's not a one inch punch we all got a one inch punch he's doing a 12 inch 54:38 he's pushing the guy you know this is Hollywood tricks that you know and all well he's folks called me and say Vic we don't want a documentary on Bruce Lee we would 54:53 to have different sports people to say something nice we got actors we got sports people we got Hollywood people you know and then that's all 55:03 demonstration if you would say something nice you know about where as I said well what do I get you know, you're gonna get me the footage well yeah we'll give you the footage if you say something nice 55:17 no you know very well he didn't beat me the footage will show that man, now Bruce Lee and I had did some little sparring cause he wanted me to see his jeet kune do, he said Vic will you look at my jeet kune do here and we'd go around a little bit and you'll see how you like well we did more or less I ain't proud of it you know at least doing that dropping and bouncing and I'm sweeping spinning and hit him anytime I want that's me that's Vic Moore ask anybody. Well he had the audacity to ask afterwards, how did I like his jeet kune do I said well Bruce I don't as you're seeing I can hit you anytime I want you could never get in on me and moving in a 56:08 you see my style 56:09 must have been faster than yours I said I'm too much of a traditionalist the 56:14 jeet kune do 56:16 that you're doing well some of the people like it yeah, I said yeah, I hoped it. Well you won't know 56:24 but you don't even see my punches that I threw and hit him and he missed and 56:31 now here I am 56:34 everybody there is and people's gonna say aint nowhere in the world he could beat Bruce Lee 56:39 Bruce Lee I said no 56:44 Be nice to him you know Chuck Norris could have beat Bruce Lee in a real fight or in a tournament and in a dozen other champions I'm not the only one 57:00 could, Jimmy Jones could you know I mean there's a dozens people could've beat Bruce Lee who are just as fast as Bruce Lee well that was in 67 same tournament I defeat Chuck Norris had been on Nationals, Chuck Norris when you get ready for his spin and back kick he moves his right shoulder, he comes forward and then he makes a spin here he comes he's on telegraphs, see everybody telegraphs, Vic Moore telegraphs, you telegraph, Bruce Lee telegraphs everybody telegraphs you just gotta be able to pick it well that's my expertise I pick your telegraph when you're gonna move how you're gonna move what's that you're gonna stick with or what hand you're gonna punch with and I that's another story I'd tell you how I developed all that on our next interview.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay.
Vic Moore:
But at least on with the spinning back kick instead of stepping back blocking like most most people try and do, Chuck Norris is too fast for you to block his kick. You step back and think you're gonna block it and you 58:05 you're really absolutely busted boom well I steps in who just when he spins I steps in and hit him right in 58:12 sent him to the floor, the winning match, the winning point. So, he stops the match, 58:21 point but Ed Parker says wait we're gonna have a meeting they go in the back ground with all the referees and stay 15mins and they come out and they say we gotta start over 58:37 and there and Chuck Norris raise his hands up to say well I don't know what's going on Vic you know 58:44 and he just hit me on the arm with just some little flashy stuff 58:48 and that's it that the match Chuck's win. When we got 58:54 Chuck Norris took his program and say Vic you know I didn't have nothing do with that I said I know that they cheat me 59:00 it was prejudice and I was often even come to tournaments at the time they wouldn't let me in the 59:09 where the tournament was is, this nigga can't come in you know boom and Master Trias or either the black dragon 59:17 if you don't let this boy in you don't wanna have a tournament because he's the defending champion oh well don't tell well we have to go around to the bac. No Master Trias says no you're coming in the front like everybody else. That's so much stuff we had to go through well Chuck Norris took his program and reeled on it to the man that beat me, Vic Moore.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh wow.
Vic Moore:
59:42 his wife at the time she took our program and she enrolled on here programs we say it programs back then and they and she's well known to the man that beat my husband you know and you know I've done you know gave him a hug you don't know that's why I said even to this day Chuck Norris never called us a name he was always fair and honest, treated her body with respect you know but there was people that call us names in the inward you know in the matches and beforehand wouldn't even let us in. Well that was in 6th and 7th dan, 68 I defeat Joe Lewis become the first world professional champion in San Antonio Texas. We were establishing an official world championship with 1:00:40 now we're gonna be having pros, we're gonna have money intervene well 1:00:47 defeated Joe Lewis at that tournament. They don't speak about it much, there is you'll read it once in a while in history books you know, that's in 68 and 69 Mike Stone never been defeated we're out in California to teen Championships, Mike Stone doing his thing sweeping in and reaching in, sending people airborne 1:01:17 doing his same thing cracking ribs, putting them on the floor, well come down to the final 1:01:25 and I have been there we are well we knew we were gonna meet eventually one day so here we are I'm a drop kicker he's a drop kicker 1:01:37 he's a drop kicker, Jim Harrison he's a drop kicker, we're the best drop kickers there were. I dropkicked on him boom he blocked it, boom I said what that's my drop kick I looked up on him he looked down gave me a little smile well we going all of a sudden he dropkicks on me I blocked it he 1:02:06 I gave him that same little wink back you know and we're going back and forth and then he caught me in his trap, he caught me in with his foot the sweep thing here comes the real thing coming at me I said oh lord I'm in his trap well you know in Judo and my main judo instructor was John Osaka I didn't give you that name but John Osaka was one of the top judo anybody in judo know that name John Osaka and he has taught me how to counter just about every throw and Mike Stone had me in his sweep and I just dropped low, caught him below the trap reversed it to my shoulder 1:02:51 and took my ridge hand inside of his ridge hand and sent him airborne and 1:02:58 head and shoulder and dislocated his shoulder. Oh, they mentioned Mike Stone lost to Vic Moore because he was disqualified yeah how was he disqualified did he stood up on a banana peel, did he step on his shoestring did he trip getting in the ring 1:03:18 no they don't mention Vic Moore 1:03:22 into a ridge hand yeah, he's great, he was good, I give him for all that boom but you just don't win every match somebody's gonna take you out a time or 2.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right
Vic Moore:
Well that was in 69, Vic Moore the only person to defeat Mike Stone as a black belt and 1970 Bill Wallace and I, Bill Wallace at the fest 1:03:47 65 miles an hour bom bom bom yeah 1:03:52 in the USKA together and oh we fought a few times and I'm stopping his foot, I'm telling Master Trias how I'm gonna beat him the night before. Master Trias says I wanna see you do it and I beat him with a ridge hand up to the gut but I looked behind him and when he turned to his head to see what I was looking at 1:04:20 you know 1:04:23 I come step in and threw a ridge hand boom but how was I stopping his kicks well I was able to play with his ankle patting him on the feet and hitting him on the leg. He was like are you crazy you won't know I chopped my hand across Jeremy at a 45-degree angle cause if I have my arm across your legs at a 45-degree angle you can't kick me because you gotta bend your knees to be able to kick me. There's no way you're gonna kick, throw a kick, without bending your knee but if I got your knee checked you can't kick me does that make sense to you at all.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It does.
Vic Moore:
Try it boom you get it with anybody or if you have the stick and you 1:05:11 across a person's knee at a 45-degree angle, they can't kick you. You can't throw a front kick, roundhouse kick, back kick or any kind of kick but people try and block the leg and step back and duck and dive and all that when really you don't have to but if you are gonna block it then you have to be faster than the person throwing the kick. It's timing, timing is more important than speed what good is your speed if you can't hit me. Timing is better than strength, what good is your strength if you can't hit me. When I do my seminar, this is some of the step I go over. So, if I hold my arm out at a 45 and you're trying to punch me you gotta come 1:05:56 so only one arm is gonna hit me on one side of the body. The other hand can't come around on that 45-degree angle so I checked your arms and I checked your legs, that's how Vic Moore beat everybody. Well in 69 Joe Lewis and I we've put on a demonstration of kickboxing on the Mary Griffin National TV show in New York Joe know he can always give Vic Moore the fighting cause we've fought several times but we was going so hot and heavy that the producers stopped it because they haven't seen nobody making contact like that in karate we had gloves we're doing kickboxing and we are the ones that introduced this full contacts thing and suddenly we had the first full contact match. Joe Lewis and 1:06:52 and Vic Moore and Jim Harrison out in California and that was the first full contact match. Well at least we fought in California they seem to think that the martial arts been stored to the 80s cause they all they wanna talk about is everybody from the 80s on up and they started this and they started this and they had the first this and first that thing and not the first nothing. We were doing this stuff before they were born and then they now say Bruce Lee coming 1:07:22. We were doing the stuff before he was born 1:07:27.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, GM Moore you went through I mean I've been jotting down names as you've mentioned them and it's I don't think I've ever written that many amazing martial artists down on a piece of paper at one time
Vic Moore:
But you know what I do wanna put in my chimpanzee, Vic Moore trained a Chimpanzee. A chimpanzee went to different tournaments, we went to Chicago, we went to Florida, we went to the Grand Nationals, we went all over just about the United States I had that Chimp out there demonstrating karate techniques. Ask Jimmy Jones, ask some of these guys Thomas Lapuppet he's gone you know but I just took that chimp to different tournaments to show that I could teach a chimpanzee karate. So not only was I a fighter but I was a teacher. I tell it to a lot of super champion.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't know what to say to that.
Vic Moore:
1:08:28 my chimp so and then later on people claimed they trained a chimp using this chimpanzee, my chimp, this is back in 1970s 74-75 you know boom. Well training a chimpanzee to do karate was more challenging than beating Bruce Lee in a speed match then there's one guy he has the audacity to get on YouTube and come out with 2 DVDs telling people that I'm a liar, that I never beat Bruce Lee because Bruce Lee never fought so how could I beat him. Well if you have a race and I beat you in the race I can say I beat you. If you're playing golf and my score is lower than your score I can say I beat you if we're in NASCAR and we were racing I get to the finish line I could say I beat you, right and do semantics if you want to on the main but how are you gonna tell me I'd beaten beat Bruce Lee because Bruce Lee was a movie star and he wrote books and crap and everything else I don't give a damn whether he wrote or what he didn't do I beat him in the speed match so that's a fight.
Jeremy Lesniak:
So, I'd like you think back over all these names all these people that you had a chance to spar or fight or whatever term you wanna use for it, did you have a favorite? Was there somebody that you enjoyed sparring the most?
Vic Moore:
Yeah, yes 1:10:05 you know I really enjoyed that fight with Big Mike Stone but Joe Lewis and I we fought probably more than anybody else. I think he got 3 of the matches and I got 2 but every time we fought truthfully, I beat him but they wouldn't give it to me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But you had fun with him?
Vic Moore:
Oh because I would raise my arm out for him to throw a sidekick and I know he's gonna take that step over, grab your arms, snatch you in and break your ribs you know boom well I would raise my arm up for him to grab my arm so when he grab my arm instead of me trying to pull away which is raising your arm up I jump in and lower my elbow and that catches his leg and then I take the same arm that he got hold of and 1:11:07 snatched down on it and then I hit him of the side of his head he gets so mad. 1:11:15. He was a good fighter he was, they call him the 1:11:26 he was one of the tough fighters. He used to make his students and he trained probably more good fighters than even I did he was an excellent trainer. He had 2 guys Rob Scott and another fella, black guy beat Joe Lewis in full contact but he used to make his students sit down at my ring side me and Joe Lewis fighting and 1:11:54 and they had to report back to him on techniques that I was using and doing but 1:12:05 excellent fighter I beat him but I had to beat him 1:12:11 because he used to study me he was tricky himself he was known as the 1:12:17 so I had to throw all of the counter stuff at him 1:12:21 Simmons and I he had to flip a coin after who was gonna 1:12:27 you know what Jeremy not only did I win and I'm not trying to 1:12:35 but I placed in every kata and weapon competition.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay let's talk about that for a minute.
Vic Moore:
And one thing you read in a couple of history books Doctor 1:12:53 was probably the number 1 kata champion in the 60s and the 70s and that was a goal to beat 1:13:05 to win first place when he aunt there you know taking 2nd place when he's there and maybe a third place 1:13:17 who always give me competition but I always place 1st, 2nd or third 1:13:29 in kata and weapon and for me to beat Doctor 1:13:37 and he put it in one of the history books that the only person ever him in kata was Vic Moore. Hey my hats off to myself on that 1:13:48. But there was 1:13:52 too who was a top kata champion he and I flip a coin and then we go to weapons, he and I we had to flip a coin and then demonstration. I used to, I'm the first one to start laying on the bed of nails and let them break 1:14:11 which we try and create and jumping 8 foot in there, breaking an inch board, kicking 3 times in the air and there was one Korean he had beat me he 1:14:22 5 times in there you know 1:14:26 but I won in kata I won in weapons 1:14:32 most of the time even with a bow and in demonstration I used to do a lot of 1:14:40 I used to break 1:14:41 with the side of my hand with a snap of the wrist not swinging my arm down I used to break 3 inches of concrete by having my fingertips on the brick and then snap my wrist faster than one and inch punch Bruce Lee so those are some of the things I used to do. Now there was 1:15:05 super champion always giving me competition in kata1:15:17 I don't know if you know that name
Jeremy Lesniak:
I don't
Vic Moore:
He was up in Pennsylvania somewhere up around there, he's the only 1:15:31 that I never got a chance to beat in kata but I've always placed second or third you know behind him you know and 1:15:44 he always was one of the top kata individuals but the super champions out there like I said Thomas Lapuppet from New York, Rod van Clief from New York, Jimmy Jones from Chicago, 1:16:04 Simmons from Pennsylvania, 1:16:10 from Colorado, Oklahoma 1:16:13 all of them are super champions and then you have the other fellas and those was the minority that had to fight super hard to even get a place 1:16:29 so prejudiced back in the day. Then you've got Chuck Norris and Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace and Mike Stone then others Allen Stein, Skipper Mullins, 1:16:49, Jim 1:16:53 all of the goes at the one tournament oh my god if you just placed you did something 1:17:02
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure
Vic Moore:
1:17:02 matter did you win oh 1:17:07 if you win is how did you do it did you place, yeah oh good congratulations because if you placed, that was like a world championship in itself man they got like I said world championships and ain't nobody there just their next-door neighbor down the street around the corner 1:17:27
Jeremy Lesniak:
People have asked me you know if you could go back in time where would you and I don't I've never really had a good answer to that question and I think now I have a great answer I would go back to one of these tournaments and see all these people. It never occurred to me that all of you would be at the same event at the same time.
Vic Moore:
Oh yes yes 1:17:50 and we all now Joe Lewis and I we had more battles and all the old times I'd tell you they went to tournaments just to see us, just to see Joe Lewis and Vic Moore fight. We will fight like cats and dogs and then afterwards we go into the restaurant, getting down to eating a hamburger and drinking up 1:18:09 cola together 1:18:15 yeah, we fought cats and dogs 1:18:18 we're going out to eat together.
Jeremy Lesniak:
But you were really friends?
Vic Moore:
Somewhat. 1:18:29 each other you know I mean I1:18:35 you know I'm just standing up there and big grown man you know 70 years old you know crying like a baby you know boom 1:18:44 you know so luckily, we were there but just look at all the champions, Jim Harrison.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's quite the list.
Vic Moore:
Oh my god.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What do you have going on now? Are you still teaching and training?
Vic Moore:
Yeah, I'm doing seminars and 1:19:06 the commissioner of my traditional world karate association that I've started back in 75 when I've seen karate going downhill Jeremy. When Master Trias starts getting too loose, relax and started letting all the Koreans coming in getting higher rank over everybody else and they're not knowing basic techniques and knowing katas and didn't know how to fight and everything else and permitting them to get away with murder as they say with bad techniques, bad karate and then there was Jhoon Rhee oh 1:19:48 gear and stuff but the Jhoon Rhee's tournament in '67 I was in the top 4 we're supposed to have round robin, Jhoon Rhee would not even submit me to fight the first and second round robin 1:20:05 the winner fights for first and second the loser fights for third and fourth, that was the way we did it right, I'm still doing it you know boom but no he wanted this other guy Joe Lewis who was a marine who just came to his tournament and he wanted to let him fight because he was a marine for first and second and there's other guy and told me that I had to fight for third and fourth, why because I had defeated the all Korean champion. At Jhoon Rhee's tournament the all Korean champion had a delegation from Korea, their government pay for him to come or about 15 of them. He's standing up against the wall putting his foot all up over the wall and stuff and everybody's saying ahuh Vic look who you’re gonna have to fight, I said yeah but that well I don't hit back I hit back 1:21:02 he had to fight that Korean. I treat that Korean worse than I treated anybody else, I sparred him around I snaked him I swept him he went up in the air to do a jump kick I went up in the air and kicked him out of the air, that's one match that I remember to this day you know, boom. Well they wanted to fight, they were gonna ride, they called the highway patrol in to share 1:21:29 the city police they're all in there thinking I said we don't need no escort me and my students we care 1:21:36 we got these demonstrations with them. I'm one of the first ones to start cutting a potato 1:21:42 and we had all our weapons and stuff and said we don't need no body guards you know if they wanna fight they can fight you know all the Koreans they grouped together 1:21:58 and say go let them come over, that's how prejudiced things were and they hated my guts, the Koreans, probably still do hate Vic Moore. Well Henry Cho wouldn't let me come to some of his tournaments because I had defeated the all Korean Champion, I defeated everybody I'm beating everybody now Vic you 1:22:21 enough tournaments we gonna let somebody else win. I got disqualified at one of the Korean tournaments up in Wisconsin, a full contact tournament for hitting too hard, what kind of crap is that you know so I couldn't even go into any Korean tournaments you know but that's some of the history the back ground so you know I've done but like I said we used to go tournaments they tell us we're not gonna win, Vic Moore you're not gonna win, I say how are you gonna stop me well we got three out of 5 judges, or 2 out of 3 in other words they can dominate what they wanna call, what they're not gonna call.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Vic Moore:
There was times I couldn't go in the hotel as I was stating I go to New York I had to stay with Thomas Lapuppet at his house cause they wouldn't give blacks a room in hotels a lot of times and in Chicago you know, couldn't go in a restaurant and eat and you go to tournaments you can't go in a restaurant and eat you had to ride on the back of the bus you know a lot of these blacks don't know I paved the way when they see me coming in and then I win these tournaments and stuff then they started looking at them a lot different but then they get jealous and don't want you to win their tournament cause they already got their pick. Steve Sanders, you know Mohammed he's in Atlanta Georgia now ask Jimmy Jones up in Chicago, ask 1:24:00 who's in Oklahoma or Colorado 1:24:04 guys up and ask them they can say you the same stories I aunt the only one. I might have been the first one to pave the way and the first one 1:24:14 started the association called the Black Karate Federation cause they sees it seems so bad that so many minority he started association because of that. Yeah
Jeremy Lesniak:
I wanna we're definitely gonna have to have you back on another time and talk I know we just scratched the surface for listeners out there, GM Moore and I talked last week just so I could get some context for what we've talked about today I think we've spent about 90 minutes going over a ton of stuff that we didn't even talk about today.
Vic Moore:
1:24:49 some of my best matches, I can set a later date you know, go over some of the matches, how I used to fight these different champions and all.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah that would be fascinating.
Vic Moore:
1:25:07 Doing what techniques I used to do, and Master Trias used to tell me he wanted me to win with certain techniques and I had to win the match with that technique it may have been a 1:25:19 it may have been a 1:25:22 and
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah why would he do that what was his goal?
Vic Moore:
He wanted to see how certain techniques worked against Mike Stone and Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace and all. He had an abundance of knowledge more than anybody and he wanted to see how certain stances, certain techniques where Vic you're gonna work from the snake all the way down the snake you look at some of my old matches and stuff how low I am in the ground or how am I all the way down in a snake or I'm up on one leg in a crane stance or the techniques that I'm using the jump kicks and double kicks, double side kick and I had to win with a double side kick. That'll mean he boom he 1:26:19 but I love him he taught me how to do the techniques so.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That certainly comes through, you've spoken with a lot of reverence about him but I want give people the opportunity if they wanna learn more about you. You mentioned that you have an association and you offer some seminars, are those, is there information available on the internet for them to be able to look at?
Vic Moore:
Oh yes hmm TWKA and for Traditional World Karate Association and it's under TWKA they can join the association. I keep up with my members on a bi weekly basis, a week or monthly basis, I give 1:27:03 over the phone and do skype and all. I take you to stance and technique like what I was telling you about on the phone how to stop how to get in how to position your body. There are certain ways you can position your body and the person can't even 1:27:21 everybody fights you know jumping up and down when a man is jumping up and down he's off balance so you time him you know when he's up in the air, he's doing nothing as when he come down you know.
Jeremy Lesniak:
right
Vic Moore:
He's jumping forward and back forward back when he jumps back he aunt doing nothing you can put your fingers 1:27:39 and go la la la la and then when he comes forward you bring your guards up. I mean this day and time people don't even know karate. I get on the internet and I'd say 75% of you don't even know what karate is about. You're jumping up and down street fighting slapping you're boxing. Boxing don't have the same technique that karate does, that's a different art.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Vic Moore:
You can't be running around the ring and call yourself doing karate you fight 1:28:11 stance in the art of karate so we'll get in to it sometime and
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah
Vic Moore:
the rest of 1:28:18 I know the audience would like to hear how I fought some of these guys or what kata 1:28:23
Jeremy Lesniak:
that's fascinating
Vic Moore:
How do you win in kata contest and weapons, what weapons and you can't throw your weapon up in the air and catch it behind your back and think you're gonna get a real score in karate? What are your opponents doing while it's up in the air waiting on it to come down when you catch it behind your back what are they doing waiting on you to bring it around to the front? come on when you're rolling on the floor what they got to do, stand still they can't stomp you 1:28:54 down on you? you're doing a backward flip 1:28:58 jumping and so 1:29:01 in your ribs while you're flipping in the air and stuff.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You're bringing up a subject that started to come up more and more in these episodes and it's interesting to hear your take on it too. It's something that and I know it's becoming a theme and you know it sounds like that association that TWKA you mentioned that your instructor had founded that.
Vic Moore:
Yeah Jeremy, Vic Moore he don't like that Vic Moore he don't like 1:29:31 when I was in Fayetteville, North Carolina. I wasn't that great at it but I studied ballet I was on my gymnastics team which we we are all 1:29:45 high school Cincinnati, Ohio. I like the gymnastics, I like ballet. Baton, twirling the baton, throwing it up in the air catching it behind your back I used to love to see the drum major 1:30:04 the girls doing their baton while I was on a football team. My coach used to say Vic 1:30:11 pay attention to this 1:30:12 you up there watching the drum major throwing up is you know it was fascinating but I don't wanna see all the crap in my karate. I don't wanna see ballet in my karate, I don't wanna see gymnastics in my karate, I wanna see karate in my karate.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right. Well said and I don't know that I could say it any better as I've mentioned in previous episodes I love gymnastics I do gymnastics I coach gymnastics but I think you said it pretty well you know gymnastics is gymnastics and martial arts is martial arts and then there may be a bit too much overlap these days. But you mentioned also some seminars, is the information on the seminars also available at that TWKA?
Vic Moore:
Yeah, my number is there people's welcome to give me a call I do answer my phone. I do skype with people everyday and I'm on the phone 2 or 3 times a day chatting with people from all over the country. I talk to white belts, brown belts, and black belts and masters. I speak with everybody, they want advice, they wanna hear some of my worst stories you know and 1:31:29 so I'm on the phone frequently.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well we're gonna make sure that we link to your association and your information from the show notes at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com so people can get a hold of you and learn more about you and.
Vic Moore:
And also, some of the info and demonstrations is on YouTube. the man that fought them all, Vic Moore the man that fought them all.
Jeremy Lesniak:
I was just watching that video yesterday.
Vic Moore:
And if you look at it 1:32:01 you see Bruce Lee never came close to me and they show it over and over and it's the same technique. Somebody wrote Vic 1:32:12 Vic Moore and he couldn't stop 1:32:14. He threw 3 punches and I threw three.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Well I think it's pretty clear in listening to you tell your stories that you that there's nothing that you need to exaggerate you know I need everything I needed.
Vic Moore:
Jeremy I've done enough in my lifetime that I don't have to exaggerate and 1:32:39
Jeremy Lesniak:
And no one should and I think it's amazing that you're willing to tell all these stories and thank you for telling them so let's wind down now. the last real thing I'd like to ask you to do and again we'll find a time to bring you on again but do you have any parting advice? There's a lot of martial artists listening and is there something you'd like to offer them for advice.
Vic Moore:
Oh yeah, my main saying is what I wanna be noticed for is I wanna see traditional karate come back to at least halfway where it used to be. I wanna see people doing real karate, down in a stance, executing karate techniques. People don't even know what a stance is, they're jumping up and down. they don't know what a ridge hand is, they don't know what 1:33:39 is, they don't know anything about breathing, the three levels of breathing and they don't know about bone alignment punching with the first 2 knuckles being allowed to 1:33:51 an elbow in a straight line the recoil of the opposite hand. they don't know about meditation is where your speed comes from, being 1:34:02 concentration where your power comes from focusing to a person you know they don't you call these elements, they go to a dojo, they put on 1:34:12 they kick a bag, they spar around with each other and they go home and they say they had a karate class. You haven't had a Vic Moore karate class in the man on the moon. They don't know how to kick with the ball at the foot, everybody's kicking with their toes and 1:34:29 you hit that 1:34:31 but because you got to pass on you don't have those injuries you know and when Jhoon Rhee came out with those 1:34:44 he didn't come out with 1:34:44 contact and hits I didn't know he did that it was for safety, if you slip and hit the person not for us to hit, to make contact and we all see karate the non-contact sport, there used to be a time if you can't 1:35:05 within a fraction of an inch you can't compete because you don't have a control. they don't know that, they think karate is hitting, they think it's kick boxing, they think it's boxing 1:35:17. So that's what I want to see and that's what our organization is about is to teach you stances, 1:35:25, back stance, kick stance, all these stances, all the blocks you don't even see a person blocking in karate nowadays. they don't even know what a block is or we just cover up 1:35:36. Covering up is not doing karate, it's blocking.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Vic Moore:
So that's what I would say to 1:35:47 start teaching real karate well we don't get a point for doing this technique and that technique so I don't teach but just because you don't get a point in a tournament there's no reason for you not to share that knowledge with your students because karate deals more than just tournaments, on the street there is no rules.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Vic Moore:
And the technique that you don't like maybe the students’ best technique to save her life or his life one day on the street.
Jeremy Lesniak:
My instructor used to tell us that, if there was a technique that didn't work for us, that we still had a responsibility to learn it and try to master it because you never know who you were going to be teaching and what would work for them.
Vic Moore:
Amen.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Wow
Vic Moore:
so, I'm available, I'm reachable you know so if anybody wanna contact me and chat with me or wanna have a seminar or whatever I'm more than welcome.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And that's incredible and I hope people take you up on that offer it's been a pleasure to talk to you and.
Vic Moore:
And I'd say that you know because see when I was coming up you couldn't sit and talk to a black belt 1:37:09 all in the same room with these high raking black belt.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Right.
Vic Moore:
I'm available.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Cool well GM Moore I really really appreciate your time this has been a lot of fun.
Vic Moore:
Well I appreciate too even having a consideration to even speak with me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Thanks for listening to episode 20 of whistlekickMartialArtsRadio. Thank you to GM Moore for his time and his absolutely wonderful stories. If you liked the show please subscribe so you never miss out in the future and if you could help us by leaving a 5-star review wherever you download your podcast, it would make a big difference. Those reviews help new listeners find the show and you might hear us read yours on the air, if we do go ahead and email us at info@whistlekick.com and you'll get a free prize pack including a shirt, water bottle, stickers and more, you know we'll even pay the shipping. You can check out the show notes with photos, video and links to everything we talked about today at whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. In fact, if you typically skip the show notes on the website this would be a good one to go look at. As we were putting this episode together we kept finding more things that warranted sharing and while you're over there if you wanna be a guest on the show or you know someone that would be a great interview please fill out the guest form and don't forget to subscribe to the newsletter so you can keep up on everything whistlekick. If you wanna follow us on social media we're on Facebook, twitter, Pinterest and Instagram all with the username whistlekick. While you're at it check out the great stuff we have at whistlekick.com, gears, shirts, pants and a whole bunch more. All made for martial artists by martial artists. So, until next time train hard, smile and have a great day.