Episode 917 - Martial Arts Round Table

In this episode, Jeremy sits down with Dave Kovar, Buzz Durkin, and Chris Rappold to talk about the multifaceted benefits of martial arts.

Martial Arts Round Table - Episode 917

SUMMARY

The conversation with Jeremy Lesniak, Buzz Durkin, Dave Kovar and Chris Rappold explores the greatness of martial arts and its multifaceted benefits. It discusses the development of confidence through martial arts training and the importance of projecting confidence to deter potential confrontations. The conversation also highlights the emphasis on respect, courtesy, and self-control in martial arts, which sets it apart from other sports. The hosts discuss the role of martial arts in teaching leadership skills and instilling values in students. They also touch on the impact of technology and the need for human connection in martial arts training. The conversation concludes with a discussion on perseverance and the importance of maintaining high standards in martial arts schools. The conversation explores the importance of communication and humility in the learning experience. It emphasizes the role of instructors as guides rather than teachers and the need for a humble and selfless approach. The conversation also touches on the importance of balance, meeting students where they are, and creating a non-judgmental environment. The hosts reflect on their past teaching methods and the need for continuous self-reflection and improvement. The conversation concludes with a story that highlights the negative impact of harsh training methods and the importance of love and support in nurturing students.

TAKEAWAYS

* Martial arts can aid in every aspect of life and help individuals deal with challenges and enjoy life to the fullest.

* Confidence can be developed through martial arts training, and projecting confidence can deter potential confrontations.

* Martial arts emphasizes respect, courtesy, and self-control, setting it apart from other sports.

* Martial arts training develops leaders who possess qualities such as respect, courtesy, and hard work.

* Technology, such as AI, can be used to enhance martial arts training and create more opportunities for human connection.

* Teaching perseverance and maintaining high standards are crucial in martial arts schools. Instructors should communicate with students and create a non-judgmental environment.

* Humility is important in the learning experience and instructors should be guides rather than teachers.

* Meeting students where they are and creating balance is crucial for their growth and development.

* Continuous self-reflection and improvement are necessary for instructors to provide the best learning experience.

* Harsh training methods can have a negative impact on students, and love and support are essential in nurturing their growth.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction and Setting
08:09 Martial Arts as a Tool for Developing Leaders
25:22 The Role of Communication and Humility
32:33 The Negative Impact of Harsh Training Methods

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SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Jeremy (00:01.082)

So here we are. We are at the 20th Martial Arts Symposium. We're in Waterville Valley and I'm loving this backdrop.

I kind of wish we had the fire going. But I am... I wish you'd. It's a little chilly in here. Dave's freezing to death. It was 34 degrees when I got up. What is it back home for you? Yeah, a little warmer. But, you know, I'm just lucky to be here.

with these three gentlemen and two of you have been on the show. We're gonna get you on the show soon, Chris. And I just thought it'd be fun to sit down and chat and just kind of see where the conversation goes. You just had a conversation with a bunch of the school owners talking about school owner sort of topics. But let's talk about some things that might be more.

broadly appealing. I asked Buzz while you two were grabbing your coffee what he wanted to talk about and he said how great martial arts is. So maybe let's start there. You know we've got we've got time actually Andrew can I have that can I have the hat because I don't know if they can all see but you're all wearing a 50 year Buzz Dirk in school hat and now I have mine. Nice. Yes. Yes. Looking good. So now we're all matching we're all in uniform.

What makes Mosh What so great?

Jeremy (01:45.338)

I think what makes martial arts so great, one of the things that's multifaceted is the fact that it can aid you in every aspect of your life. As you go through life, life struggles, life's good times, life's bad times, the martial arts can be a rock and anchor to help you deal with all the challenges that you may face and enjoy life to its fullest. I think what makes, there's so many things, right? But I think every parent should have their kid teach them how to swim and have them do martial arts, right? But when it comes to like,

so many different reasons, the one I'll focus on first would be like confidence. Now, you know, the bottom line, if you look at it, you can develop confidence through doing anything. Somebody can, through playing soccer or, but what makes martial arts unique is that ability to inflict bodily harm. And what I mean by that is, is that, yeah, what do you mean? Is that all of a sudden, you know, the kid on the playground, like if you were to go at any age, by the way, a predator is looking for prey, right? And let's just say the only way we were going to do that,

be able to go home to feed our families, we had to find someone we had to fight in a cage to the knockout. But we got to pick who we're going to fight. We're not going to find the big, we're not going to find, you know, Big John, it's not going to be the guy we're going to go against, right? And so the point is, is what happens when somebody develops more, starts training more source, they project a different signal of confidence. Kind of like the average predator is looking, they've got their antennas looking for prey, you know, so as someone becomes more confident, they're projecting confidence or less likely to be confronted.

in the first place. And the other thing that goes along with that and what makes more sports unique to other things is because of the nature that we're teaching is violent, it really obligates us to swing the pendulum to the other side and stress respect, courtesy, self -control that you don't get in a lot of other sports because it's not necessary. Like for example, my kids trained in soccer, played soccer for years and they had great coaches, but there was never once when the coach said, now Alex, don't misuse your soccer on someone because it's not an issue. But because we're teaching,

the things we don't it really obligates us to really swing the pendulum to their side so people get messages that they may not hear otherwise. It's funny you bring up soccer and it's funny you bring up not having to teach that. I was flipping through TikTok just this morning and it was a montage of women's soccer games where things weren't going as the players wanted and they're just hauling off.

Jeremy (04:10.586)

And what I think, you know, you're talking about that pendulum swinging, we make a conscious effort there, whereas most other pursuits just kind of ride the societal line.

you know it's no secret that people are angry frustrated maybe a little less respectful than they used to be and I don't know about you all maybe you hear it with parents or you see it in your day to day lives but there is a lot less respect and discipline and everything I'm gonna go the opposite way on that please do yes I think that there's far more respect and discipline than than what it first meets the eye

because the challenge is Mr. Durkin's not gonna be on CNN tonight. Why? Because he's polite, he's respectful, he's courteous, he's humble. But if Mr. Durkin takes out an Uzi, well, let me tell you something that's all we're gonna hear about. So I think there is the appearance of, boy, you know, kids these days and this and that, but we have schools full of teenagers and children that are respectful.

courteous, humble, doing the very, very best that they can. And I do see it in other places as well outside of martial arts, but I guess I want to be optimistic because I see the same things that you see, Jeremy, but I just want to refuse to believe it. So maybe it's selection bias. Yeah, well, and it's also been around forever. There's a quote, and I could pull it up in a second, but it goes like this.

You know, kids these days have no respect for their peers. They won't stand in the room when their adults crawl. They're lazy, thoughtless, signed Socrates. So literally, it's kind of a generational thing. As we get older, we look back and are perceived. Not that there aren't areas of society where it's worse, but I agree this. I don't necessarily know that in general. I think we're doing our share to kind of keep the respect factor there, you know. And I guess that begs the question. If there's...

Jeremy (06:16.652)

There's maybe a fight going on between societal pressure and what we're doing and trying to identify the best in people and resisting that kids these days instinct. How do we get involved in that? How do we use our position as martial artists, as school owners, as people with reach to...

If not, always keep things moving in the right direction. Let's keep them from sliding. I'm very, I don't like to prey on people's fear. So for example, God forbid there is an abduction or a rape or something in our community. I'm not going to be the first karate studio that puts an ad out, you know, defend yourself against rape because I think that's preying on fear.

That being said, the media, and when I say the media, I don't mean to like make the media bad, but what is in popular culture is an, it continually exposes an overwhelming need for confidence and cures for the obesity epidemic, et cetera. So I think as long as we're positioning ourselves as we're on this side and we're working against that,

We don't really have to do anything else. We just need to make sure that what's reflected in our heart, what's reflected in our beliefs is amplified within our community. Because I think there's a lot of parents out there that are fearful. And in some cases, without really the facts to back it up, but they are fearful. They are looking for things. And as long as we position ourselves appropriately, I think,

you know, we can help them.

Jeremy (08:09.818)

I think the ultimate goal of martial arts training is self -perfection. It's not that I can beat the other guy, the other guy can beat me. It's self -perfection. And how can we as teachers, through teaching and exposing our students to the virtues of martial arts training, the virtues of being a black belt on a daily basis, that's so powerful. Like Chris said, confidence, patience, stick -to -itiveness, work ethic, all those things we present to the student and the parents are most appreciative of that.

And I think at all our schools, I think we're developing absolutely leaders. We're developing people who are respectful, courteous, hardworking. And these are the kids that will rise to the top. And I think it's a... We believe so strongly in the martial arts and its benefits. And selling is a transference of feeling, basically. So we feel so strongly about this and we pass that on to the next generation. We're gonna develop some...

some wonderful leaders. I'm so confident of that. You know, the human mind is easily influenced by anything spoken with conviction. And when you believe in what you're doing, the people around you just kind of pick up on it.

I think that's why it's such an important reason that we kind of stay connected to all the benefits of martial arts. Because then when we communicate that, people pick up on it a little bit more and they're more likely to be involved. Chris said earlier that I teach the most boring style of karate there is, and that's debatable. But. It was a compliment.

Jeremy (09:49.722)

I didn't say that, and I don't believe it, by the way. What is the most boring stuff?

Jeremy (09:59.898)

You brought up fear, and if I'm hearing you correctly, Dave.

Maybe you don't even acknowledge the fear. You just, you just leave, right? You say the good stuff with conviction and just maybe ignore. Yeah. You know, your precious point, you know, like, like anybody here, we've all done self -defense clinics before. I actually have a program with Sacramento County. I have a contract with Sacramento County. We do what's called our live safe training program. And I've done hundreds of them. And I think it's pretty good program. Right. And the whole intention when I do this is you guys have all done a self -defense clinic where everybody comes in and they, they're scared to death. They don't know what to expect. Or.

If you've ever done one for like the county they have to go so there's a bunch of people don't want to be there and my goal is to have them leave and power empowered and feeling good but the point is is if you The reason why there's very few people that have made their living teaching self -defense successfully like that's what they lead with it seems like it's because People are so concerned about that, you know And so they kind of block it out and the only time you ever get a good turnout if that's what you do is right after a bad event you know, I mean and and so It's like I think that's why you aspire to

to the positive stuff versus moving towards versus moving away from. And it's interesting, you guys remember back in the day when the Yellow Pages ad, the picture was a guy doing a flying sidekick on the nose or grabbing the knife out of the hand. And that was how we advertised. What we didn't realize is the general public doesn't, when they see that picture, they don't think of me. They think, am I going to be hit in the nose with a sidekick? Because it's the fear thing. So I think because we've got to really do a good job of when we're

not just talking about the positive benefits and it's safe but really backing that up.

Jeremy (11:44.89)

Where do we take that? And what I mean is, I'm getting the sense that the three of you are pretty much in agreement in, you know what, we're just, we're not gonna go there. We're not gonna respond to fear. We're not gonna indulge it. We're not gonna let the world change what we do.

Jeremy (12:07.13)

does that create an opportunity to maybe double down on some of the things that are historical, traditional, within our...

world within the martial arts world. We can say, you know what? We've been doing this for a while. The world is veering hard leftover here. We've got to do even more of this. We've got to do even make even more. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say, I don't know if it's exactly what you're looking for, but I think as we become more digital and you know, more automated and AI takes a bigger effect, I actually think that benefits us because I think there's the need of real contact.

is going to become more and more scarce and the better we are at it, it's going to draw people. It's like keeping that kind of human connection strong. The human connection is important. There's an old saying, between the teacher and the student, there is only the teacher and the student. And that's very profound. And that idea of one -on -one, you taking a personal interest in a student, that student, that person reciprocating, I think that's very powerful and very meaningful.

I'd agree with both of them. Yeah, I think it's I think when emails first came out I started to be able to recognize oh this isn't my little trick

I everybody calls me Chris anytime I sign up for anything I call it Christopher. So whenever anything says hey Christopher I just wanted to touch base with you I know it's that so I created a little system for identifying what's spam and what's actually coming from someone personally. I've also seen. That's why you never answer my email. Just keep calling me Christopher. I've also seen.

Jeremy (14:07.834)

And by the way, I'm not poo poo and AI. Chat GPT blows my mind and I'm using it more and more and more. I'm so grateful. It's like Star Trek to me. But that being said, I've started to see, oh, okay, I can tell this is AI generated. So to what these gentlemen were just talking about, AI creates a beautiful opportunity for the personal side of what we do to stand out.

out even more and make us even more relevant because we're going, we're not going against the tide. We're probably all using AI, but we're not using AI as a replacement for human connection. And it doesn't matter how good all of these systems get, we're still physical, mental, spiritual, emotional people that we need, we need each other. Yeah. One of the ways, and I'm curious what you're doing,

with AI. We're using AI to create more opportunities for time, to spend more time. If this thing I was going to do was going to take me four hours before now, I can do it in 10 or 15 minutes and I've got that much more time to engage with my students or engage with our customers. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, and I kind of look at it like I'm still figuring out how I can use it, you know, but I've had some things I've wrote in a couple notes that like I had it plug in, you know, how to how to handle it.

a disgruntled person in a very nice way in a hundred words and I couldn't believe how articulate and empathetic it was. So I see the benefits of it completely. And the thing is that you can't, it's here. Like we whine about, oh, everybody's on their phone. Well, the bottom line is I remember getting on a plane and looking at all the people on the plane ahead of me and everybody was on a phone and I'm kind of like, I can't, what the world's coming to. And I sat down and I pulled out my phone. So it's here and it's kind of like, so we got to embrace it and use it to our advantage.

benefit you know either like that's the it makes no sense to do anything but that you know but as a tool yes not as a replacement yes human connection and I you know maybe even mr. Durkin is going to use AI but I don't imagine I'm going to get an AI generated postcard from him I'm going to send you one since Christopher it'll be spelled wrong with an F in there somewhere yes you know you

Jeremy (16:37.276)

Kind of danced around it. So let's let's go at it Phones connection this trend within the world that we're watching having some pretty profound impact

on youth. They don't have the value, whether or not it's the skill, they don't seem to value. I think that's a safer way to put it. For that human in -person connection. I notice it in some of my younger students that there are some things that I need to interface with them a little differently. All the more reason why we're so important. You know, like how many of us, you've all had this happen that someone came back from school and got their first job and said, the reason

I got a job is because they were impressed with my ability to look into the eye when I shook their hand. You know, talking about some stuff that we, that more and more especially even post COVID, they're getting less and less of it. And so I just see us as that making us even more valuable and more important to really teach that generation of kids how to interact with others. And the more schools that are teaching those things, the more schools there are like that, the better off for the society. I truly believe that. I know it and I'm sure it's the same at your schools. The

developing future leaders and people that aren't afraid to shake your hand and look you in the eye little little eight -year -olds or seven -year -olds it's how are you today Mr. Durk and how are you today Mr. Repo and that's that's that's so wonderful parents see that and parents yeah I want my child to have that that's that's critical I think I don't just another thing that I guess I'm addressing a little bit but I think post -COVID with all the stuff's going on I feel like we've got a

double down on on on really being really clear on understanding difference like one of the things that I'm talking about all the time with my team to talk to today and the parents is about the difference between the quick muscle and the perseverance muscle because it feels like in certain cases it's like people elect their kids to quit sooner than they should or they quit themselves and and the whole point is we got to teach people the only way you develop perseverance is by wanting to quit not but if you wait until they want to quit to have that talk it's too too late so it's like

Jeremy (18:51.66)

like having that conversation on an ongoing basis. Hey, there's going to be a time when you don't want to do this. That's OK. It's natural. What are you going to do when you get there? And kind of educating them. So we can keep them in our program because there's something magical happens when someone grows up in a martial arts school. We've all seen it. But it takes them to be around for a long time. And that's kind of on us to make sure that we're doing everything we can to make it hard for them to move on. There was a time in a little phase I saw in some of the videos.

of the communications where people, for example, were fearful of not passing a child on a striped test or a belt test because, well, listen, I can't afford people dropping out. So as a band -aid, what they did is they lowered their standard and they maybe said, well, that's the best he can do right now, or however they justify it. We'll catch him up before the next one. Absolutely. And I'm very pleased and proud because within the culture that

I've created it my schools thanks to these gentlemen is I We've we've done enough communication in a way where a parent will say I really appreciate that because you know what? He has been practicing the way he promised you and you noticed I really appreciate your consequences. I really appreciate you holding his feet to the fire like that and now that enables us it empowers

My teachers to not be gun -shy but to be authentic in the feedback that they're given them and to Mr. Cobar's point not failure is is fatal. It's it's it's feedback and now here's the steps that you need to do to improve We're right with you, but I I see more in you than what you're showing in yourself I've seen you do better. So I want you to go back this weekend. I want you to practice it and when you come in on Tuesday, let's do it again. I

know you can do it better than that.

Jeremy (20:54.042)

And it's a different reality. And for the short sighted, I'm going to give them stripes and I'm going to give them this. I just I think you're I don't see where it's sustainable over time. I have this fundamental belief in humanity that people are like goldfish. We grow to the size of the bowl that were put in. And I think a lot of people, you know, want want to help others feel significant. So they shrink the bowl and that fish looks really big. That's a great analogy. And yet.

What happens when you take that same goldfish and you throw it in a huge backyard baller? Can I use that analogy by all means? It's not it's not a Jeremy original. I don't know where it came from. I've been saying it a long time I'm gonna say it's a Jeremy. Hey, you guys are welcome on the show anytime keep keep There's nothing enlightened. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel

Jeremy (21:54.906)

Yes, sir. Society, I think in a lot of ways, to kind of bring it back to where we started, sometimes a lot of us feel like we're in a whack -a -mole game, right? We start to grow, we start to do something significant, and I'm sure you've all received criticism, we get criticism all the time, just by existing and just by doing something good, people look for a way to cut you down because instead of them growing, they're trying to chop your legs out from under you so that the disparity between their effort and yours doesn't seem as big. Yeah.

I tell you that's one of the kind of the mindsets I have is I try to deflect negative energy, right? And it's hard to do, you know, it's hard to do. But what's helped for me with that negativity is first off, I don't even, you know, like I don't, if I know there's stuff, I'm not searching to find stuff that's, you know, it's like I'm not going there. But when I do, I'm reminded of a quote that my pops share with me and it was, hurt people, hurt people.

You know, so when you're like, you know, so the people that are lashing out, they got issues. And somehow that helps me to deal with the criticism when it comes this way. That really is a good one. Boy, that's a second good one here. One of the things that I try to do is I try to take what I believe to be the most core aspect of martial arts into the rest of my life, which is how good am I going to get solo? Right? In order to progress, we need other people to test against, right? Iron sharp and sire. So you tell me,

me, hey, I'm starting a podcast. My genuine feeling was cool. How can I help you? I hope he gets really good because that's going to drive me to get better. That mutually beneficial concept is so critically important. As the student gets better, the class gets better. As the class gets better, the student can't help but get better. So it's a synogenistic. And the instructor has to get better. Of course. So that's the individual gets better.

the class gets better. If a class is getting better, technically whatever, the individual can't help but get better. And it's so wonderful when you have students appreciate that, understand that concept. It lends itself to such a marvelous spirit in the dojo. And it's good for the teacher to articulate that and remind the students of that's what's happening. You know, students have a lot in their minds. It's up to us to remind them what a wonderful thing is happening. You helped someone else get better in their life. They helped you get better. This is...

Jeremy (24:22.508)

Let's go for another hour.

Jeremy (24:52.364)

I really appreciate you doing that because I might just, I'm used to, hey, you're my training partner, whatever, but you know, I really like the way you work with him because I was trying to explain to him that concept, but I watched the way you worked with him and you made him better today. That is so beautiful. I'm going to interrupt. Yes, please. Just last week, we had the same instance happen in the class and I wrote a personal note, thanks for helping Erica look so good in class. And oftentimes we wait until something bad goes on before we communicate.

So communicate with the good as well. And that exact same thing that you're mentioning now, I had an opportunity to do thanks for making Erica look so good in class. Wow, where'd that come from? I think there's this belief, especially among students or people outside, that the learning experience is one way and it's topped out. That the instructor is responsible for all of the education, but we all know that it's what I would call crosstalk. It's that...

community I tell my students yeah I'm in the front of the room I'm leading the experience I'm not necessarily teaching I'm cultivating the environment whereby you learn yeah and I think that there's a dramatic difference between the schools that recognize that which ensures all of you and others where maybe there's a little bit of ego no no I don't want you to show them that let me show it you're gonna show it wrong yeah right yeah for sure yeah I think the

the humility of being a guide on the side instead of the sage on the stage. I think what I like about both of them is accomplished as they are and how revered they are by the industry and by their student. I know, I know, I know. But the reason that they are is they're very selfless.

and their approach. They're not trying to suck up all of the attention and the praise for the work they do. They selflessly give it out. So that enables, let's say it was a classroom environment, that enables the partners to share in the development of everybody instead of it all comes from Mr. Kovar or it all comes from Mr. Durkin. So I think the more humble that we can be, the more, one, it teaches a lesson of humility.

Jeremy (27:21.644)

uh... creates a culture where people grow and thrive and be reinforced for the correct behavior which enables that to happen.

Humility is so important. I've had a number of conversations this weekend with people about humility and that it's something we value so much as a community, as a community of martial artists, but maybe we're not always great at instilling it.

Jeremy (27:57.818)

How do we instill it? How do we...

help students who are getting contradictory signals pretty much constantly that humility is worth cultivating themselves and others. So just to be clear, I am the most humble. If there's a competition for humility, I would have voted for you for that. That comes from Park and Rec episode. It was so great. If there's a competition for humility, I would be in first place. It was the funniest thing ever.

I think that all of us have ego, myself included. Even Buzz has ego. But I think it starts with teaching people to, there's a time not like there's how many times have I wanted to say.

you know, kind of spout what I believe or, you know, what I've done. And, but I've learned that even when that, when that ego comes out, just to shut up and not saying, well, it had that moment that passed, you know. And I think it's one of the ways I think it is by, let me be, got a few people that maybe are a little bit of work, you know, at appearing it. And a lot of times it's because they're, they're compensating for maybe their, their insecurity, but it is through, I'm a big fan of the Socratic method of learning, which means you get people in small groups,

and ask some questions, right? So one of the questions might be, imagine you put a bunch of people, maybe some guys that are egos out of control, ask them who they admire, right? And you get them talking and they're gonna, and what do you admire about that person? And generally you can kind of lead somebody to, you know, someone that's not blowing their own horn all the time and then you kind of have them, oh, well talk to yourself, how do you guys do about that? And a lot of times people will kind of go, yeah, I tend to maybe brag more than I should and it's a way to,

Jeremy (29:44.972)

to kind of expose that without being too direct, so to speak. Sometimes that can have an effect. No, I agree. And the students will certainly pick up on your vibe. And so it's up to us to, if being a black belt is truly about being ego -less, even though we, martial artists, have tremendous ego, then that idea of projecting that humility,

doing away.

I mean, it's transference, again, I'll go back, it's transference of feeling. People see something, I can't quite say what it is, but I see something in you that I want to have. I see a quality in you as my sensei that even if I can't put my finger on it, that you have that I want to have. And I mean, let's face it, people see things in the sensei that they want to have. If they didn't see anything that they want to have, they wouldn't be there. So there's some, sometimes it's intangible too.

sometimes it's subconscious. But that idea of seeing something in the teacher that you have a quality that I want to have. And by the way, that's true.

Jeremy (31:04.09)

martial arts. I remember one time I was lucky enough to score a point on my instructor and he blasted me back blasted me back because that method at the time was if you hit me I'm going to hit you twice as hard back. Okay and I'm super grateful for all of the people you know that I've trained with but at some point in time I

I had to stop that cycle. So I'm in class and somebody just BAM! You know, gets me. At some point in time, I had to be the renaissance person to say, boy, that was a really good shot. But again, when we're working here, we're training partners. So, you know, just be please, let's be careful of control and not be like, OK, OK. All right. You thought that was hard, huh? And because if you don't bring

that cycle then you create you know you're taking a step into the culture of the way it was and it's so you have to be able to you know find that place between stimulus and response in not to get too off there but in history the person that I've always admired you know the most is Gandhi for the reason that he didn't fight back all of the people

in history that fought back we all look at them for their courage and their tenacity and their this I Don't know if I'm a strong enough person to have you know my people killed and refused to fight back so That you know, that's that ultimate example in my mind so my little My little in my micro section of the world that I can influence You know taking the hit and not responding with that force is my way of

of teaching that to the children or the teens or the adults. Yeah, I think one of the things that you mentioned that's just so important is our ability to break the cycle is that analyze what we do in our school and are we doing it because that's the way it always was? Like we had this tradition that I picked, it was an Ed Parker thing from American Kempo that after we got there black, but we punched him in the stomach really hard, right? And then, you know, he would do the front kick and sometimes he'd miss and it would go low. It was like, so that was,

Jeremy (33:33.42)

was what we did it was and I remember one time it just didn't feel right right and and and so it was and then we did this thing where we take them in another room where nobody saw it happen it was a secret experience and and finally one day I go what are we doing why are we doing this and it was a thing I had you in this thing with every new belt rank with a blacklist like a birth of a new baby when there when there's pleasure there's also pain like didn't I just beat the tartum for two hours you know and so we got rid of it and what was interesting is we had a bunch of people initially they came up so can I have my punch I don't feel

like, you know, okay, I'll punch you. But how quickly that left and it got me thinking, what other things that are we doing because we always did that aren't really a good thing? And by the way, the things we always did was just came up, your instructors or his instructors just came up with it on the fly one day in class and it becomes dogma. So I think it's important that we analyze the experience to make sure that we're getting results we want. Right. In Mr. Derkin's formative years, I always remember monitoring to him, don't walk in the footsteps of the master.

seek what he sought. And you know, I was so proud when I clicked with him, you know, that. I like what you're saying though, because, you know, I'm hearing that story and I'm hearing what's going to create a conflict in the culture of I really want to earn my black belt. I'm dreading passing my black belt test, right? And that conflict is going to make people resist it, right? Reward the behavior you want people to do.

I want people to train really hard and get better and pass tests and progress. Why am I going to punish them for doing that well by hitting them really hard? One of the things we have to develop to be successful is balance. And we have to have the balance of the training with the balance of the regular life. How many times have you had a new student come in and so enthused about martial arts at the expense of going grocery shopping with your wife, the expense of cutting the grass?

I think that that's why we stress excuse me that our new students we only let them come twice a week and for that reason because what happens otherwise is within I don't care if someone's been around for a while they get completely out of balance and Said they get burned out really quick. You know they see all this progress initially made so like I don't care how badly you love this Right now you can only come twice a week. You know we'll talk again in a year

Jeremy (36:02.7)

we need to be exact same thing so one year act which is based on two classes and for that reason i want to balance with the with what's going on because the so it was really first that's at the expense of other people making so much sense i i have not heard of a sculpture other schools do that heard that before but get it do you do something like that for the same reasons i think so with the enthusiasm uh... i find uh... you know let me be stereotypic for a second

they never really fulfilled his destiny of being a world class athlete enrolls his five year old and really takes to it and you know I'm gonna stop bringing him five days a week and then the kid hates it. And one of the things we teach is balance. Physical balance for sure but mental balance and it's a constant thing. And I've had students even adults since why can't I come three times because I know it's in your best interest to come twice. Do you trust me as your teacher? Yes I do. I love that one.

that phrase is, tui ui de ari, roughly translated means moderation, variety, and balance in all aspects.

black belt testing for my organization because by that time whatever challenge I'm putting in front of them to officially earn that rank or that merit I'm sitting there taking notes and evaluating the students so that we can improve because if I was their teacher or my instructors were their teacher and if I'm putting them up for something that they

they can't succeed at, what does that say about our teaching? So I sit and I take notes. I already know how the students are because we've already evaluated them. I'm looking at it more holistically and saying, what can we do better? And I'm very forthcoming with that, with the students and the parents. My evaluation there is not the individual merit, though I can give you that feedback. It's how can we be better? Because you're, you're,

Jeremy (38:09.42)

or our product, you know, it's a sign of how we're doing. So it's very different from that egocentric place of we're going to, I'm going to put something in front of you and I'm going to make you fail and I'm going to, you know. What's that expression, no bad students? Yes, sir. No bad students. If the student's bad, who's the teacher? Who's teaching that student? You know, and one of the things that,

like just like there's somebody out there saying well I'm on my students to be you know, but you know, I don't want a baby and yada yada. Well, we've all been to the plane. I remember having a very small school. I was struggling to survive and all the students I had were really good because you know, we'd go to the terms we do really well because I scared away all the people that really needed the program. You know what I'm saying? So the people I had on them were going to be fine anyway. And so it's, and so what I think is important is that we ease people. We can make people, we've all taken people that were very timid and

and made them warriors, you know what I'm saying? But we gotta go to where they are and kind of ease them into it. And if we do that, we can influence a lot more people than if we're too hard too soon. And that's kind of the ah. Too hard too soon was my mantra for so long. I'll show them how tough it is. And I turned away more people who needed it the most. 100%. They needed it the most. And through my lack of being a good teacher, I turned them away.

Was that self -reflection difficult?

You just said it very plainly and very acceptably. You called yourself a bad teacher at that time. And your question is? Was that difficult to face and say, you know what, this is on me. I've got to make a change. It took me too long to figure it out. I'm dumb. It was a gradual coming to an understanding and I said, who's leaving? What did we do to that person? I mean, when someone would come in, I would take the two strongest guys. This was back in the

Jeremy (40:12.748)

I would take the two strongest guys, have them come down in front of that person sitting down watching the glass and start pounding their arms and their legs. I think I'll show how strong we are. And little does I know of this person sitting there going, these people are crazy. 100%. And it was the same with the kids. So too tough on the kids even with their promotions. What is a little yellow belt? What is an orange belt with one stripe? If you have the world's strongest

best yellow belt they shouldn't be a yellow belt. That's really pointed. You know what I'm saying, seriously what the heck are they still the yellow belt for? This is not about lowering standards at all. It's like starting being realistic with your expectations, right? You know and bringing people up.

I think, you know, our organization and again, thanks to their mentorship is where very excellent at meeting students where they're at when they come in the school. If I can meet them where they're at, then from there I can grow. And I think the mistake that I made was that I'd want them to meet me where I am and I'd want them to meet my expectation as a beginner student. And, you know, with all of the, you know,

the attentional issues and the physical limitations and the injuries and if we don't meet them where they're at we're gonna lose them I as a as an accent to help with my jiu -jitsu I have one of my coaches is a black belt in jiu -jitsu and she's my yoga teacher and she's into she's influenced my language she'll say things like

like everyone you have, you've come here this morning to take the class. Some of you may have an injury, some of you may have a little pain, some of you may have been up late last night. Please respect the way your body feels. You're honoring me by being here today. And I know you want to push yourself, but please be in tune with how you feel and honor. So she creates an environment of non -judgment. She does not allow us to be.

Jeremy (42:32.652)

lazy because she knows her students. She knows she can tell the difference if I'm being lazy or not.

but she's made, she's allowed it to be okay to let Chris be whatever percentage of Chris is there on that day and it's okay, it's okay. And the best you can do that day is the best you can do today. And I've gravitated to bringing some of that language into my black belt classes, you know, just the phraseology she uses and I'm not lowering my standards at all. What my students are feeling from me now is,

They don't feel, probably unknowingly, because it was never my intent, they don't feel like I'm judging them. You know, it's okay. And I think that's a beautiful thing. And by comparison of what she has taught me, I think we could have done a better job. And I'm pleased to say that's been a nice language that we've brought into our organization.

You guys do similar things. One of the ones that I've had a hard time with and I'm still working through is...

I grew up in an environment where if we were late to class, we were punished. And I got rid of that because I'd rather have my students there. I'd rather have them there late than not there at all. And if I punished them, I'm telling them show up on time or don't show up at all. So years ago, I trained under Grandmaster Jean Rea for a long time and I respected him greatly. He was a real big influence. And I remember one time he used to have what's called a discipline set. And if you showed up for class, you automatically went over the corner and you were punished.

Jeremy (44:16.332)

beforehand right you know it was like we tried to do in a loving way but when someone comes to play man they there they're stressed out the permits late they say sorry man I would say I'm glad you're here you know and which is the truth you know and it's a lot of time to say when the kids decide in their phones right how why would you how can they drive to the dojo seven -year -olds are never the reason that they're late yes no man it's like you know we I think that's important especially if there's a trend like it's the same person it's always late you're gonna say hey mom is there anything we can do to you know I noticed that we have a hard time getting Bobby here at

at four o 'clock. Is there anything we can do? Is there any way I can help? Like, you know, is there something in the... But if it's, you know, every now and then it happens, it happens. You're just glad they still showed up. We have a mantra at our school, from the White Belt to the Black Belt, you're never late at Buzz Dirk and the Karate School. That's that. Little kids aren't unresponsive for them getting there. And when adults come, even if they come in a half hour late, I'm happy they came. They made the effort to come. They could have been anywhere else and they still chose to spend their time there.

one of my uh... one of my uh... friends uh... that grew up in uh... in the same kind of environment that i did he had a uh... he had a bulletin board when i walked in his school and it said the wall of shame and i'm looking at it and i'm saying what is the wall of shame are those people that haven't paid their tuition yet this month are you a guy that would put on uh... like a

a brown tip on the belt and you call it the baby tip. And if you whine during class, you got a baby tip. And by the way, he's not in business anymore. I'm embarrassed to say this, but I shouldn't say this. I shouldn't say this, but back in the early days, this was way, way back. We're talking 1974. Give me the year. 74. I was five. All right.

We had a bulletin board. We put the best bruises on the bulletin board with a Polaroid camera. And at the end of the week we'd pick who had the best bruise. Who had the best discoloration? That was yellow, green, blue. That's the most 70s martial arts thing I've ever heard in my life. We had a bulletin board. Take a Polaroid picture.

Jeremy (46:34.202)

you know what's interesting is like when your wisdom comes from experience remember you know and and it's like can we learn from our mistakes and everybody has been in this business all

really long time. Either you learn early or late, but eventually you go, oh, that wasn't really smart. But you've got to pay attention. You've got to be analyzing. What did I do well? How can I get better? And that's got to happen on a regular basis. I mean, one of the things that, say I'm teaching a black belt class and there's 25 black belts in class, I'll do different ways to welcome them. For instance, I'll go to the back of the line and shake everybody's hand before the class begins. Thanks for coming. Thanks for coming. Thanks for coming.

is lined up, everyone wants to do their best and work really hard today, take one step forward. The class takes one step forward. So even at the end of all of our classes, all of our classes, we bow out and the sensei stays there and one by one the students come by and shake hands and give a little hug without fail every class to make that bonding that come out. My students have started clapping.

when class ends. Which is great. Sometimes people hear things like that and they think, oh you're getting soft. It's not soft. We're teaching human beings. We want that connection and love. And my personal belief is this. When you feel that somebody loves you, you'll walk through.

fire you want to raise your standard let the students know that you're you're asking them to do something out of love and belief in their abilities not out of anger and they will you want to raise the standard in your school make sure that they feel that

Jeremy (48:45.658)

There's a story that profoundly, and it's from the mid -90s, affected me. There was a woman, and I won't mention her name, but at what she did, I would never have gotten in the ring with her. She was absolutely vicious and world renowned.

And we were at lunch. I brought her into my school to teach. And I was asking her about her training methodologies. And she talked at length about how her instructor would hit her and slap her and hit her with a stick and tell her she's no good and all of that. And I said to her, I said, you know, you've got to be number one on the planet Earth. Like with that, have you ever wondered how good you could have been?

If you had somebody that actually showed you that love and support and kindness And here's what I wasn't expecting this this woman who I feared Her eyes welled up with tears and she said I think about it every day of my life Because in the process of creating that warrior He he broke her spirit and he missed the he missed the whole flippin thing and i've never forgot that

I want to put a punctuation mark there because unfortunately we do have to wrap. I know you guys all have other stuff. I want to thank the audience both in the room as well as watching and listening. How can people get a hold of you? Do website, social media, any stuff like that? If you want to send me an email, send it to Christopher.

Jeremy (50:32.794)

You can find me on Facebook, Christopher Rappold. Feel free to reach out.

buzz at buzzdurkin .com and I'm old school. I prefer talking on the phone than I do emailing and I prefer a seat meeting in person than I do on the phone. So I'm very easy to get a hold of, buzzdurkin .com. Dave .covarcovars .com is it. I appreciate it's been a great, it's been fun being on your show. Appreciate hanging with you all. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thanks, guys.