Episode 604 - Kyosanim Melanie Gibson
Kyosanim Melanie Gibson is a Martial Arts Practitioner and Author from Forth Worth, Texas.
The white belt days can be pretty boring ang tedious too and I don’t want to make it sound like it’s totally rainbows and unicorns but in that first class, I was sweaty and exhausted but it was great because I got out of my head. That’s what I was really looking for.
Kyosanim Melanie Gibson - Episode 604
Kyosanim Melanie Gibson started at the age of 10 and stopped at 12 but the 2 years of martial arts left a lingering presence inside her. After battling mental illness throughout her life, Kyosanim Gibson knew she had to return to training in Taekwondo. However, in an unexpected turn of events, a relationship prompted her to return to taekwondo and as she said, the rest is history. Presently, Kyosanim Melanie Gibson' has written a book, Kicking and Screaming, where she talks about her battle against mental illness and her way back to Taekwondo. Listen to learn more!
Show Notes
Get Melanie Gibson’s book: Kicking and Screaming on Amazon.
Kyosanim Melanie Gibson
Show Transcript
You can read the transcript below.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hey there, you're tuned in to whistlekick Martial Arts Radio Episode 604 with my guest today Melanie Gibson. I am Jeremy Lesniak, I'm your host here for the show and the founder at whistlekick, where everything we do is in support of the traditional martial arts. If you're interested in what we're doing to that end, visit whistlekick.com, that's our online home. It's also a place to find our store where we sell some stuff because somewhere along the line, we got to make the money to pay the bills. But as a loyal listener, you can save 15% off the stuff we've got over there by using code: PODCAST15. Wasn't long ago, was it last week? I just updated the Core Collection of products; you know that the simple stuff that we always have on hand. So, if you haven't been over there recently, go check it out. We'd keep the prices as low as we can. Basically, by the time you use that discount code, we pretty much breakeven That's the goal. It's not really a money-making venture. It's more than just remind you, hey, whistlekick is here. And well, it's a long-term strategy, we don't have to go into that now. This show has its own website, and it is creatively named whistlekickmartialartsradio.com, we bring you two shows each and every week, with the goal of connecting educating and entertaining the traditional martial artists of the world. Now, if you want to show your support for the things that we do, you can do a lot of different stuff. Like I said before, you can make a purchase. But you could also share this episode with somebody, you could follow us on social media, you could tell a friend about what we're doing, you could pick up one of our books on Amazon, you could leave a review anywhere, or you can support our Patreon. Patreon is a place where we post a bunch of different and exclusive content and a number of you contribute each and every month to that and you get access to a whole bunch of stuff, patreon.com/whistlekick. And you can get in as little as two bucks a month. And honestly, the more you put in, the more we're giving you. Yes, it is tiered. And I make really, really sure that we are over delivering on what's there. There are stated things that we're going to give you each and every month. And quite often we go above and beyond that because well, I want to make people happy. People don't generally stop contributing to the Patreon, which to me, that tells me that we're doing something right there. Let's talk about the episode. I had a wonderful conversation with Gibson, we talked about a ton of different stuff. We talked about how she started martial arts, we talked about the break that she took, we talked about some of the things that occurred during the break that she took. And we talked about why she ultimately went back and how it has changed her life. It's a story that I think many of you are going to relate to. And I hope you enjoy it. So here we go. Hey, Melanie Gibson. Welcome to whistle kick martial arts radio.
Melanie Gibson:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hey, I'm happy to have you here. And you know, we've got some stuff to talk about. I've looked into who you are a little bit. I don't usually do that. But I have no pressure but I have some high hopes for this one. I think you said before we got going that you are used to talking for a long time. So, that right there in itself gives me high hopes.
Melanie Gibson:
Oh, no, no pressure at all. Okay.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's going to work out great. I have a feeling and you know what? I host the show, and I've got the experience doing it. So, I've got a pretty good track record. So, let's just dive in. Let's, you know, instead of me talking, why am I talking so much? You're the ones supposed to be talking. So, let's give you a chance to talk. How about an easy one? When did you start training?
Melanie Gibson:
When did I start training? So, I started training when I was 10 years old. I grew up in a rural West Texas town called Snyder. And for some reason, I told my parents I wanted to do karate. I wasn't an athletic kid. I was one of the last kids picked in PE class. I didn't like sports. I was a really good swimmer. And but that was about it. And I wasn't what you'd call a tomboy, either. I just like to read and draw. I was pretty introverted kid and I don't even know if I'd seen The Karate Kid at that point. This was around 1989- 1990. And but I just I don't know if I had this hidden tough streak. Something I told my parents I wanted to do karate. Well, there wasn't a karate school nearby and they certainly weren't going to drive me 90 miles to Lubbock or Abilene. there happened to be a Taekwondo. Excuse me a Taekwondo school, West Texas Taekwondo Academy run by a very nice married couple. And so, one night they told us at the dinner table, hey, we're going to start doing Taekwondo. And I kind of was taken aback. I thought, oh, no, they made good on the thing I talked about. So, we went and watched a class and I had no idea what to expect and I just fell in love with it. I loved the discipline. I loved hearing the smack of feet on focus pads. I love seeing everybody run around saying yesterday. Bam, and I'm a fairly structured and organized person. So maybe that appealed to my brain. But that night when we got home at my house, my dad and I kind of danced around doing kicks and strikes each other saying, oh, yeah, they did this. And they did knife hands and this and, oh, it was wonderful. Because we saw self-defense, we saw probably a little bit of sparring. And so, I was enchanted by it. And so, we did that until I was about 12. A couple of things happened in our lives life just happened, you know that that can happen sometimes. And so, I stopped for about 22 years until I was in my early 30s.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Wow, it's quite the pause. And so, I don't want to dig too much into what happened when you were 12. But I want to talk about your memories of that time. We've had a number of guests on the show who had to put down martial arts for a period of time. And, you know, it's always there to pick it up. In fact, that's one of the things that I like to say martial arts is always there for you when you're ready to go back to it. But if you stop doing something for 22 years, and you've done it for a few years, something must have lingered in, I think everybody we've had on the show who has a similar story. There was always something in the back of their mind saying, I'd like to get back to this. This was a good thing in my life. I miss it. etc. Does that describe you?
Melanie Gibson:
Yes, very much so and nothing really bad happened. It was just kind of a turning point in our lives. My dad took a different job that required a lot more time because at the time, all four of us were training my parents, my brother and myself, and I was going into junior high. So that was a big transition I got into theater and band and other activities. And it just was one of those things that we stopped doing now I will say, I did start to really dread sparring. I hated it. I couldn't think of what to do is the same reason I hated improvisational acting in high school is that it from my child's mind. I didn't know what to do now is as an adult, as far it's a lot more intuitive. But it is a kid that does that was kind of lost on me. I didn't have that innate talent, but some people do. So, I really was dreading it. And so, by the time we stopped, I wasn't too heartbroken. But I think I lost something that because I had some problems later on as a teenager and adult sometimes. I wonder I still been doing Taekwondo what I have gone through so much suffering, but martial arts do stay with you, it never leaves you. And there were certain things that stayed with me like the mind body connection, I didn't really have words for that when I was, you know, 10/11/12 years old. But that was very appealing to me. I started doing yoga when I was a teen as a freshman in college. And that mind body connection was there. And I think I had developed that doing Taekwondo as a as a kid. And so that was very appealing to me. I did a ballet and modern dance for a couple of years in college. And I think that Taekwondo background, helped me really be in touch with expressing through my eyes, through my hands, my legs, my whole body. What I was trying to express how, like when you do forms, or anything is having that strong connection to the body. So that stayed with me. And by the time I started back as about 32, I had hit a really low point with my mental health. And we can get into some of that later if you want. But I was at a point where I thought I have got to do something positive and wholesome and fulfilling for myself. And it was funny, because a little before that I'd been in a little brief relationship, and I told my mom, well, if it doesn't work out with this guy, I'm going to go back to Taekwondo. Because I had except for the sparring. I had pretty fond memories of it, I thought, oh, that'd be kind of fun to start back and try again. And so, I got to this really low emotional rock bottom, I thought, okay, now we're never I've got to do something different. So, I started looking for Taekwondo schools and here's where fate or God or the universe or something, put this into my path. And I discovered that my Snyder instructors Grandmaster. So, if you're not familiar with Taekwondo, those who are listening is that there's a higher rank of black belts. And they reported up to this Grandmaster operated his school in Fort Worth, which is where I live now. I live in Fort Worth, Texas, and he operated a school about five miles from where I live. And I remembered him from my childhood days, he used to come to our tests. So, he'd sit there and he kind of glare at us and intimidate us until we looked away. He wrote our names and Korean on our uniforms; he came to our tournaments. So, when I discovered that this connection to my childhood was right here in Fort Worth, my search was over. I had to start and the rest is history. That's how I got started into it. And that was that was around 2013. And I've been back in love ever since I think Taekwondo was one of my first loves. And it's nice to be back in that mindset. Again, I feel like I'm 11 years old again.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's a great feeling. starting over again, it is the Kismet of the fate of it that someone from the lineage of your childhood was right there. It's like it was meant to be. Yes. And so, you figure out that he's there. And you step in? What was it like going back? What was that first day, those first moments of reentering the dojo?
Melanie Gibson:
Oh, it was great. Before I even started a first class, I'd gone to talk to him and watch a class and I ended up not watching the class. He was very chatty man. And so, we ended up sitting in his office and talking for about two hours, which was great, because we gossip about people, we both knew in Snyder. But I started my first class happened to be on April 1 April Fool's Day, which was pretty after because I've been acting like a hotness fool for years. And that white belt class was great, because I remembered certain things. I mean, I'd done maybe kick boxing aerobics over the years. And like I said, that mind body connection was ingrained in me when I was young. So, I remembered the basics like below block punching, snap kicks, basic things. But it was, it was wonderful. It was it was magical. Now I will say, you know, the white belt days can be pretty boring and tedious to so I don't want to make it sound, totally rainbows and unicorns. But in that first class, I was sweaty, I was worn out, I was exhausted. And it was great, because I got out of my head. That's what I was really looking for. Um, some people start martial arts to learn self-defense, or they want to get in shape. I didn't really need to get in shape I was I was actually underweight. Because I was drinking whiskey for dinner every night, I was a pretty bad emotional state. So, it was just like a shock to my system. It was like a positive shock to my system to say, okay, I'm out of my Fortress of Solitude, where I'm sitting there just tormenting myself with my anxiety and depression. And I get into something where I'm around other people. So, you know, in martial arts, you get this instant community. And it gets, you're so focused on something else, that you're not thinking about your problems, you're not thinking about what you did at work that day. That's something I really love about martial arts. And I'm sure people who do other martial arts can feel the same as that. It gives you such a singular focus, it makes you so present, that you're really not you're not thinking about what you're going to have for dinner, you're not worried about something happened at work yet the other day, is that you're completely in that moment. And I don't even know if I realized it at the time. But I had that euphoric feeling after that first class. And I think that's what it was. It got me totally focused and present, and kind of broke that spell that I've been under of all this negative thinking and all the problems I was having with my mental health.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Oh, you can't lay out a visual like whiskey for dinner and not and not expect me to go there. So, I'm sure you. You knew you were setting it up for me, huh? That's Yeah, that's what's going on there.
Melanie Gibson:
All right, we can go there. So, I have had mental health problems my entire life. Now as a kid in West Texas in the 1980s, we didn't really have language for that. And my parents happened to be from other states from larger metropolitan areas. But there weren't any resources. And you know, I was just kind of written off as a moody kid, and a moody kid who sometimes got angry, who sometimes cried. And that's just kind of how I thought I was, and didn't really know what to do with that. So, I think that's why I turned to drawing and sometimes writing stories so much to express myself, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I'm glad I grew up with that arts background. It started to manifest more when I was a teenager, I started to have body image problems and disordered eating. I don't know if a flip got switch when I hit puberty, but something happened. Nothing really traumatic happened, but it's just like something in my brain started to switch and a lot of times these mental illnesses can manifest themselves as teenager and a young adult, it's our brains are still growing and sometimes those flips do get switched. And are the switches get flipped. I always get those two mixed up. But things started to manifest itself. I had some, like I said, some eating disorder problems. And I think just depression and anxiety hit pretty hard when I was in college, and what was later diagnosed as bipolar disorder and my thing was don't recommend this, I never sought treatment for it. Because I thought I just had to power through it, go to school, go to work, get a job, take care of myself, I am glad my parents instilled in me that independence to take care of myself, but maybe use a little too much. Because I never stopped to ask for help. I was very, I'm very stubborn. And I never asked for help. And I finally got to a breaking point around 30, where I was feeling suicidal when not the first time. And I just thought, okay, I had enough where with all and enough self-awareness to think this has got to stop, this has got to change. So, I called the employee system flying that I had to get set up with a therapist, and eventually a psychiatrist got me on some medication. And that was the start of treating my mental illnesses. So, depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, with the official diagnosis later got diagnosed with kind of an atypical form of anorexia. So, I'm at a normal weight. But the restrictive behavior is there, the all the mental parts of it are there because an eating disorder is very much a mental illness. So, I did okay, with therapy and medication, I was still lacking a lot of self-awareness, I was making bad choices. This showed up a lot in relationships. So, I think if I could sum it up, I am somebody who's crazy ex-girlfriend, I'm sure some poor guy has some stories about me. And what it was, is that I was just seeking love from other people and other things, because I couldn't give that love to myself, I was seeking external validation. So, I put it all on these poor boyfriends to give me that validation. And of course, you can imagine, they tended to disappear once I started getting pretty demanding about it. So, that's really how the Taekwondo thing came about. And I'm kind of embarrassed now that it was just this dumb little relationship that didn't work out. But that's when I hit that bottom and thought, okay, I feel absolutely miserable. Therapy, medications are helping. But now that I look back on it, I still didn't have a lot of self-awareness, I still wasn't taking a lot of responsibility for my own actions, I still wasn't making a concerted effort to change. what you've got to do when you've got mental health problems is that yes, you get treatment for professionals. But you can't passively just hope it happens, you'd have to do the work yourself. And so that's how I got into Taekwondo. And that's what I started to notice as I trained was that I was starting to develop more of that discipline, inside and outside the dojo. I know that I've listened to your podcast about martial arts lifestyle. And that's what started to happen is that the discipline and the focus that was happening, while I was training, translated over into how I was coping with my mental health, it didn't happen overnight. In fact, I got into a pretty toxic relationship, right about when I started Taekwondo and took a while, and some bad experiences to get away from that relationship. But the growth happened eventually, just like when you're training from a white belt to black belt, or a yellow belt or anything, is that that change doesn't happen overnight, it happens in little increments, and you start to yourself awareness gets stronger and stronger, and you start to see, okay, this is what I need to do. That's positive. And this is what I need to do differently. So that's how whiskey for dinner was happening. I have a set that really low point over that, that was one of those one of those boyfriends. And that's when I thought, okay, I've got to do something. And that's when I started Taekwondo.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's interesting, because it gives you a reference point, you know, you talked about these challenges, coming up with puberty, and you started martial arts, kind of pre-pubescent so you have a reference point for what it sounds like, healthy involvement in martial arts, and its contributions to life looked like. Now granted, there's a big difference between being 11 years old and being in your 30s. But it sounds like it was a kind of a stake in the ground, something that you could look back to, similar to the way that I described and heard many others describe a black belt test. This is a line in the sand. This is something I can look at and say, this is me in this context, and it sounds like you had the opportunity to do that. And we're doing that when you went back. Am I hearing that right?
Melanie Gibson:
Yes, I think so. And when I think back to who I was when I was 11, I was still pretty, you know, had some dark sensibilities about me. I was pretty sensitive and shot and all of that, but I wasn't so focused on getting attacked. from other people and getting that validation that I said I was seeking, I love to do Taekwondo, other than sparring eventually, which I love sparring now, but back then I was kid, it was different. But I was very focused on my own interests. I love to draw. I wanted to be a cartoonist for Mad Magazine at one point, and that translated into writing later, I was obsessed with my parents, Beatles records. And I was just into my own thing, I was drawing cartoons. I was listening to the Beatles. I was doing Taekwondo. And I wasn't so focused on this external validation that, you know, kind of took the place of chasing boyfriends or chasing college degrees or chasing jobs. And so, when I started Taekwondo, it was like, that feeling again, of doing something just for me. You get those accolades in martial arts, or you get praise. But just doing it for yourself felt more important. And that's what I felt like when I was a kid doing Taekwondo that this is something I'm doing purely for me purely for my enjoyment. Yeah, moving up in rank is great. And that feels good. And eventually, that that does really you do want to get that black belt. But that's what I was feeling is I am doing this just for me, there's really no ulterior motive. It's pure.
Jeremy Lesniak:
It's pure. Is that something that you felt or recognized? In that moment? Or has it only been in hindsight?
Melanie Gibson:
I think it's been a little bit of both. It did that first feeling after that first white belt class as an adult. And I started over as a white belt, because I just wanted to relearn everything. And I started to notice something, but I don't think I could put my finger on it. And now that I've looked back on it, through hindsight, I've realized, oh, okay, I got back to doing something that was purely for me, it wasn't seeking approval, or attention, or something to soothe my ego, or anything like that. It was just pure positivity. And that's also the thing, I think, with a sense of community for martial arts is that I'm not always an easy person to be friends with, I am fairly introverted, which is, there's nothing wrong with that. But I just don't really like spending time with people. I like doing my own thing. Or I never, I always have a hard time with groups of people like a Bible study or a running club is that eventually I get kind of tired of it like, oh, okay, I don't want to get together when you guys want to get together and do all the things you want to do. And it always felt like a push and pull. And with my martial arts community, there was something again, very curious about that, where it was very positive. And I felt like I could give more. And I don't know if I can quite put my finger on it. But I just wanted to give back to that community. Again, no ulterior motive, there was nothing I was really trying to seek from my instructors or eventually started teaching. Nothing. I was really trying to seek for my students, no validation, or nothing to make me feel better. It's just something I wanted to do. So that there's something special about martial arts, when you have that community of people. And it's that same feeling is that pure positivity makes you want to give back. You get so excited when you see other people achieve something even when you're competing with them. Is that that feels different than I have with other interest groups or groups of friends.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay, I got it. No, we've talked about your second stab at being a white belt, which, by the way, I applaud and personally really enjoy. There's nothing better than putting a white belt on again, not having anything expected of you. It's a wonderful place to be in the back of the room there. Nobody, nobody expecting you to demonstrate anything. Longtime martial artist, people have started over probably nodding along going yeah, I get that. So nice. But you stuck with it. And you know, I'm doing some rough math here. But sounds like you stuck with it longer than you had the first go. So, what did that ongoing process look like? What did that transition from? I'm going to give this a try again, it feels good. I'm happy with this decision to this is a thing that I'm committed enough to that I'm going to be there for years.
Melanie Gibson:
I think that happened pretty early on. Because Taekwondo was something familiar. So, when I started something brand new, like a brand-new martial art or a new musical instrument or a new language, that might have been a little bit different. It might have had it might have had a longer period of thinking, well, this is just something new. I'm going to try and see how I feel about it. I knew pretty early on how I felt about Taekwondo. It was instant love and maybe I got a bit of an addictive personality. So, there might have been some of that going on. But I knew pretty early on that this is what I wanted to do. And you mentioned my childhood tenure as a Taekwondo, I was thinking, testing for red bell was just as special as testing for black belt, because I never got to that rank. When I was a kid, I'd gotten to blue with red stripe. And that was a really special moment. Transitioning to red belt, I felt like okay, this has been 22 years coming to get to this next step. And I already know when I was pretty committed to Taekwondo them, but when that happened, I thought, okay, now I'm really in this. And now I'm really in this for the long haul. And I felt like, I was doing my inner child justice by picking up where I left off and healing some old wounds and taking responsibility for the bad feelings and the negative things in my life and saying, okay, I'm finally taking care of things and taking care of business now.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Okay, makes sense. Yeah. I'm with you. I bet a lot of folks listening are, are with you. So here's the question. We've talked about two aspects here. We've talked about the martial arts; we've talked about the impact on your mental health. What is your mental health look like now?
Melanie Gibson:
You know, it's decent. 2020 was a rough year, and it's been a rough year for us all. We've all gone through some collective trauma. We've all gone through some personal trauma, and total transparency, I started seeing a therapist again, because I think for me, the Texas snowstorm, and the failure of the government and the electric deadly electric grid to take care of its citizens was just devastating. And I thought, okay, I'm tired. I'm tired of feeling this way. I'm going back to therapy. So, it's different now being in therapy than I was 10 years ago, because I built that self-awareness through journaling, which is a really great tool, and also through martial arts. And you'd mentioned early that martial arts never leave you. So, here's another thing that's happened is that I tore my ACL and had surgery last year in July. So that was a big, big thing that happened. So that was bound to come up ACL patients are like vegans, and cross fitters will tell you we had an ACL injury eventually. So that's a big thing. And I don't know if that really affected my mental health as much as things like the pandemic, and how the snowstorm and other things but that showed me that I'm not really able to practice Taekwondo even right now. I'm still recovering. I'm doing Taekwondo, like things at home like forms, but I'm not back in the dojo training. But that that mental wherewithal and strength and perseverance that I have built up all those years, has stayed with me. So that made me feel better that when I was literally flat on my back with a leg and a machine that was moving my life back and forth. I felt better than when I did when I was suffering from the worst of my mental illness.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hmm. Can you elaborate on that? That's a pretty heavy statement.
Melanie Gibson:
Yeah, yeah. So, you asked about the state of my mental health, it has gone up and down with a pandemic, I noticed things like mood cycling and depression that I haven't felt in years. And so, talk to my health care providers. And the nice thing is, I've already been seeking treatment for it. So, it's different than when I was just kind of scrambling around in the darkness. But when I suffered my injury, the one nice thing about it is that it forced me to slow down really slow down, and prioritize. I had a couple of personal projects going on work was still very busy. I work for healthcare organizations, so that work never slowed down. And that was kind of the nice thing about having any injuries. And I could just, I could have just had to stop and just focus on the few things that were important to me. And it also made me really think is okay, this was a pretty devastating injury. This is a big surgery. It's a long recovery. Am I still committed to Taekwondo? And I'm not angry that it happened. It's very common. It's a common injury. It's common in high level athletes, it's common in women. So, it really hasn't been as bad as it sounds. And I said earlier that the physical pain is not as bad as the mental pain and that's true. I don't really want to go through another ACL tear again. But the pain that I've gone through post, the injury, the surgery, the rehab is still easier to take, then, how much I can torment myself with my anxiety or the mood swings of bipolar disorder or that despair. The suicidal feelings that is worse than the physical injury. I've gone through.
Jeremy Lesniak:
That's, that's powerful. And I'm sure you're not alone. I mean, I can certainly relate to quite a bit of what you're talking about here. And we've had a number of guests on the last year who have been pretty open about similar experiences and connections that they've had between mental health and martial arts. And I get feedback from those, you know, we get email saying, thank you. I needed to hear this, I needed to know, I wasn't alone. And anyone out there, you're not, there are a lot of people struggling and you know, I'm going to raise my hand is one of them right now. And knowing that martial arts is there, in whatever capacity, I think is a pretty great tool to have in your toolbox for dealing with this sort of stuff. And it sounds like that's kind of where you're at.
Melanie Gibson:
Yeah, it is. And even just something as small as stopping what you're doing and doing a form in your living room or doing a couple of blocks in case I have done that, where I'm just feeling stressed out either about work or something personalized to think, okay, just do a form and see what happens. And it pulls you into the moment that what I said earlier about martial arts making you feel very present, because I am one of those people, I have anxiety. So, I do spend a lot of time ruminating over worrying about things that'll happen or things that happen in the past. And that's something that can snap you into that present moment. And that's been so helpful. And even as I recover, just being able to do little things like practicing my stances, and very carefully practicing kicks and punches and things like that, that can take me away from say, the stress I'm having with work or even the stress itself of recovering from an injury. So martial arts are always there. I was at grandmasters banquet many years ago, and the Olympian Jackie Galloway was there and she gave a speech and she said, Taekwondo never leaves you. And it hasn't left me, it's still waiting for me is waiting for me to come back. I just like it waited when I was started when I was 12, and 13. And waited all those years for me to come back. And it's waiting for me to come back after I recovered from my injury.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And one of the subjects that I find interesting from a philosophical perspective, when do you stop being a martial artist? Right, you trained, you took a break, you trained, your kind of on a forced semi hiatus, you know, you said you're not going to the dojo. And there are people who would point at that incident, and say, well, until you go back, and I completely disagree. You're literally utilizing martial arts to move through to recover to overcome. And I think that there's nothing more martial arts than that. There's nothing that is more indicative of you brought up the episode that we did on living a martial arts lifestyle, there's nothing more indicative of living a martial arts lifestyle, then honoring your body and your health.
Melanie Gibson:
Yeah, I agree with you. And I agree, I disagree with those who say, well, you start being a martial artist, when you come off the mat is, I mean, maybe some people who just dip their toe in it and try it, and then they don't do it again. But once there's something that happens, and it doesn't have to be when you get a black belt, it can happen before that is if you make that commitment, you are a martial artist, and you will always be one, there may be certain limitations I have with my knee when I go back, I am still a black belt. I'm still a martial artist. And that has gotten me through this stressful year that we've all had. As I recovered from my injury, I still know that I've still got those skills, I've still got that mindset. And that was that was why I started martial arts in the first place. I'm not as kid but maybe so as a kid too, because I was just kind of interested in it wasn't again, it wasn't self-defense I wasn't afraid of getting attacked, is that I started it from my mind. And Taekwondo has got a couple of tenants around perseverance and integrity and self-respect, and all of that. And those are the things that grew. And those are the things that have stayed with me. Those are still in my heart in my mind, and they always will be all I you know, at some point, I may not be able to do jump kicks and who cares. I can still do other things I can still teach; I can still teach that martial arts philosophy. So that will stay with me forever. You can't take that away. And you can't take that away from other people who have had that moment where they feel really committed to their martial art and even if they stopped for the rest of their life, that's going to stay with them forever. So, I'm on your side. Once you're a martial artist, and you feel in your heart, you're a martial artist forever.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah. My definition is pretty similar. If you ever think that you will train again. You're still a martial artist. If you're if you say, you know what, I'm done forever. Well sure, then maybe you don't get that title anymore. But yeah, it's hard to pull it out of you. Once it's there... Once it's taken root, it's like the best infection you could ever have.
Melanie Gibson:
Right? That's what she wants to get.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, absolutely. I was trying to make an analogy with being a zombie, right, because we think of zombies as being, you know, infected and changed forever. And there's no going back, but I can't find a way to describe it in that way that's not horribly negative or suggestive of some really bad movies.
Melanie Gibson:
Oh, well, speaking of movies, it's funny that movies are helping me in my recovery. Because right off the bat, yeah, right at the beginning, when I had my injury. At first, I thought, oh, am I going to cry? I'm going to be sad that I missed Taekwondo. No, not really, because I couldn't even walk. So yeah, I had to use a chair in the shower. So, I was focused on functional, being able to drive again, things like that. So, I didn't really care, I didn't really have to think about martial arts. Now that I've gotten more mobile, I'm starting to get it's funny what's really appealing to me what I want to watch, I'll have my moments where I'll say to my partner, I need to watch a UFC fight, I need to watch people hitting each other. And so, because he does martial arts, too, and so we've both kind of felt that need to mentally get back into it. So, we've been watching a lot of Scott Adkins movies and Ultimate Fighter will find the episodes of the reality show and just watch fights. And I'll sit there and I'll kind of talk, we'll talk through it. When we watched the second season of Cobra Kai around, it was around August and I remember doing a lot of knee exercises at home and it made me feel connected to the martial arts rope because it kind of watch it and pick it apart and talk about it. And talk shop and just talk about the technicalities of and I thought oh, I feel like I'm getting back into it again. So that's what I've been doing lately is watching martial arts movies, and in the worst, they are the more fun they are.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Absolutely. It's one of those rare things that we can all appreciate some of the worst of the genre.
Melanie Gibson:
But there are some good ones too. And I got my crushes. I love watching Michael Jai White do a side kick or a back kick. He's just he so clean and he's so strong and sometimes my partner will send me a video of Michael Jai White doing a kick and I'll send back a little heart emojis and stuff for him. Those hearts are for Michael Jai White. So, him and [00:37:39-00:37:40] and Scott Adkins. I just love watching them move. They're my crushes. They're all nice-looking men. It's not really romantic thing. But I just … They're so beautiful in the way they move. I could watch [00:37:50-00:37:51] and do a flying knee from across the room all day. I love watching them move because there's a part of me that knows what some of those feels like I you know, can't do a 540 kick or anything like that. But you can feel it once you've done some martial arts and you got a little taste for it. It's fun. Like when you're watching a UFC fight or you're watching a martial arts movie, you kind of know what it feels like you kind of know what's realistic and what is it? And it's almost like virtual reality is that you can feel the fight happening even when you're sitting there. Doing exercises on your knee.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, yeah. I'm right there with you. It feels like you're not entirely alone. Yes, it's almost like you're there. It's certainly better than not being there. Now, let's go back because there's a transition that happened in there that I want to dig into a little bit and that is about sparring or fighting or whatever you're going to call it. You talked about when you were younger. It sounded like you appreciated all of the non-freeform all the structured aspects of martial arts, the forms, I would assume the lining up, you mentioned referring to people by title those sorts of things. And you said that you weren't really into the sparring. But as we've gone on, you've not only talked about sparring more positively but you haven't talked about the other things. So where did that change when did sparring go from something he didn't like to something that you enjoyed?
Melanie Gibson:
It happened as I was an adult and I got into training and I think part of it is I'm a still recovering perfectionist so maybe that was part of it as a child because it's very easy to perfect things like forms or one step sparring or okay and techniques and things that you can do solo or with a partner. Sparring is chaotic, and it seems like to somebody like me who's a perfectionist that there is no structure although there is a little bit more if you get into the strategy behind it. But I always hated that because I just I thought I did. I don't know what to do. And part of that was how self-conscious I was, as I'm going to look bad too. So that was a whole other level on top of it is not knowing what to do and then feeling bad that I didn't know what to do. But now I kind of like the endorphin rush of sparring. I'm not that great at it. But I like learning. And again, I like the doorframe brush. I like how focused you have to be because if you turn away for a second you get kicked in the face. So, it's pretty good motivation to stay focused. I like that. I'm 41 years old, and I have a corporate job people say pivot in my work more often than I've ever heard in martial arts training. So, it's nice to walk away from that and go into something where I'm fighting a 15-year-old boy. So, it takes you into a completely different mindset. But that's something I kind of have a love hate relationship to, I still get a little anxious before I have a sparring match because it's there's that little part of like, oh, crap, I don't know what to do. But I do very much like the other parts of it. I love doing forms. That's always been my favorite thing. I love working on technique. And some people will say, well, forums don't help you with technique at all. And I disagree with that, are you going to do the exact block in a sparring match that you do in the forum? No. But it builds a lot of muscle memory. And I think I like the details of learning something. So, I talked about the mind body connection earlier, that was something, again, is very appealing in yoga and dance. I've studied classical guitar that's also very technically demanding. And I like just plain old technique. I've said on my blog that you need to be a good mechanic, as a black belt, you need to be a good body mechanic. And I really like that with forms with kicking technique, with self-defense with learning how to move as efficiently and cleanly as possible. I'm kind of nerdy like that when it comes to martial arts, and then sparring is a little more freeform, and not as structured.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sure, sure. And you said it but I'm going to say it in a slightly different way. One of the things I like about sparring as someone who, you know, does deal with some anxiety, you have to focus, you have to be present, or you're going to get hit, I can do a form. And I honestly, I can do a pretty good form and my mind still be half some, you know, elsewhere. I can do basics and have my mind, you know, kind of thinking about other things. It's really hard to think about other things when someone's trying to punch you in the face.
Melanie Gibson:
Oh, yeah. That was the only time during tests that I wasn't nervous was during sparring?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Because you couldn't be?
Melanie Gibson:
No, you can't think?
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, yeah, I think there's something really special there. And you mentioned people critiquing forums. Anybody who's been a longtime listener to the show knows my feelings on forums. No, you know, I think incredibly, highly of forums. I think they are critical elements within martial arts. So no worries there. No having to convince me, that's for sure.
Melanie Gibson:
Okay, so we're not going to get into a Poomsae debate.
Jeremy Lesniak:
No, we're not. We're not and you know what, I've had people come to me and they've tried to, to out debate me and 100% of those people have walked away with their mind changed. So nice. I welcome all comers on that debate.
Melanie Gibson:
I got my opinions about [00:43:26-00:43:28], but we don't need to get into that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We don't. Okay. So, let's talk about what's going on coming forward. You know, that's a terrible sentence, Jeremy. Let's talk about what's coming up in the future for you, as you heal from this injury, and you step back into training. And, you know, do you have goals? Are you someone who wants to open a school or...? You know, what's next?
Melanie Gibson:
I do have some goals. First of all, I just want to get back into training in the dojo on the mat, and taking pads and doing forms and doing things outside of my home. So, the first thing is fully recovering from recovering from the injury. I'm not trying to rush it because that's a great way to get re injured. But back to doing some kind of regular training and black belt mechanic that I am. I am all about starting back from the basics. I may even do private lessons just to very carefully slowly build that back up again, I would eventually like to test for third degree black belt. That was something I had kind of had on the horizon for Fall of 2020. Obviously, that didn't happen and I'm kind of glad because I didn't really want to test in the middle of a pandemic is that you know, certain limitations on what you can do. So, but I don't want to rush that either. So, my short-term goal is to just get back into my Taekwondo school and start training again. And then a longer-term goal would be third dawn, as far as opening a school now, I don't want to do that I'm fine with my day job as I have it now. And that's a pretty big commitment. And you have to be very business savvy. That's something I admire about my instructors that she is incredibly business savvy with how she runs her school, the way she's adapted, during the pandemic has been really admirable, her business is picking back up. So, I'm going to leave the school stuff to the experts. But could I get back into teaching again? Yeah, sure, I could do that. I like to do that.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What do you enjoy about teaching?
Melanie Gibson:
It's a way to not be thinking about myself all the time. That was the thing I noticed, when I started doing some teaching, I had a really great somnium at my previous school. And he was like, say, he's the best boss I've ever had. Because he started giving me little leadership things to do before I tested for black belt. So, when I was a bow down right before it tested, he'd had me referee sparring matches or teach people forms. And I found that what I liked about teaching is that I could share what I love to do with somebody else. I've worked as a corporate trainer in my job, and I go to public speaking, I don't necessarily like it. But what I found, what I can, when I can get into it is if I really believe in what I'm teaching, and I get excited about sharing it with other people, and excited about what it can do for them, then that's when I become a really good public speaker, that's when I become a really good teacher is when I'm not so much focused on look at how smart I am. Because that's a really good way to fail, is focus on, here's this really awesome thing that can help you be even better. So that's why I would get really excited for other kids or students when they were about to test because I saw how they like to do it. And I saw how they were improving. So, and maybe that's my maternal nurturing instinct coming out too, is I just love to share what I love so much. What made me feel so good to help other people because I saw the positive things that it was doing for them as well as that Taekwondo and fits that martial arts infection is that I'm infected with it, want to share the good. The good word and pass it on to somebody else? It's almost a religious thing.
Jeremy Lesniak:
We've got to come up with a better word than infection.
Melanie Gibson:
But infection.
Jeremy Lesniak:
What I think we all get, I think everybody listening is saying, Yeah, I understand what you're saying. But I think collectively, we need a different word that we can, because we ran around saying, I want to infect you with karate, or I want to Taekwondo people would run away. Really afraid. And thinking that we were insane, which, you know, maybe we are to a certain degree, we punch our friends in the face and speak.
Melanie Gibson:
Hey, I know. I know. I mean, I actually like high five somebody one time to kick me in the head. So yeah, maybe they've gotten too many kicks in the head. But yeah, it's sharing something you love with somebody else. And that's the sense of community I was talking about earlier is that there's a lot of give and take, and you just want to keep giving and giving and giving because it's done so much for you. Now, do I want to be teaching classes every night? No. That's so that's a big commitment. And I have a day job. And you know, I like my nights off to I like to train I like to be a student. But that's something I could do is eventually getting back into it. I think I won't be able to help myself. I see a student and I think, oh, here, here's where I could come in and help them you know, with respect to the instructors running the class, you never want to overstep those boundaries. Of course, I exam. Yeah. Awesome. I'm really looking forward to some heavier training as I recover.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Now, your love for teaching or sharing is taken another form recently, correct?
Melanie Gibson:
Yes, it has.
Jeremy Lesniak:
You just finished something up something released recently.
Melanie Gibson:
Yes, yes. So, I have written a book. It's my first book. And it's a memoir. The name of it is Kicking and Screaming: A Memoir of madness and martial arts. And it tells some of the story that we talked about today of dealing with mental illness for a lifetime and getting kind of want to being one of those people whose hiding in plain sight. And getting to that rock bottom point where I get back into Taekwondo. And so, it takes you through this journey of white belt to black belt and then also the struggles I had around mental health. There's a difficult relationship that happens in the book. And you see that emotional and mental growth as I become a more proficient martial artist. So that is that is out and released to the world. As we speak. You can purchase it on Amazon, Barnes and Noble wherever you want to buy books in print or e-format. So, I really want to share my story with people. Well, not just martial artists, but people with mental illness who feel like they're alone because it can be a very lonely feeling. And very often in the media, we see the extremes. We see the suicide attempts, we see the hospitalizations, which are horrible things, and they do happen to people. But that's not the only story. And that's what I hope to tell is some of us look like we're just fine. We have jobs, we have families, we go to school. And it looks like everything's fine, which is kind of a defense mechanism to so one in five people in the United States have a mental illness. But there's still very much a stigma, we still feel like we have to hide it. So that's part of my mission with the book is to say, here's my story. I hope this can feel it makes somebody feel less alone.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Hmm. Sounds awesome.
Melanie Gibson:
Thank you.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Sounds like the type of book that we need more of. And if someone, I don't want to ask this, who is it for?
Melanie Gibson:
Who? If you imagined a line of people lined up to buy the book, not that anybody lines up and goes to bookstores anymore? But let's pretend they did. Because it's a better visual. There's a line out the door at a local bookstore, who's in that line?
Jeremy Lesniak:
I think it's anybody who likes a good human interest story. Because I have gotten feedback from early readers who say, you know, I'm not really into martial arts. I don't know anything about martial arts. I even had one reviewer say, well, Taiwan is not my thing. But they still found the book really interesting. Some of them said, hey, I learned a lot about Taekwondo. And I actually find it interesting. But it's not really a book about Taekwondo. It's about somebody going through a growing process. And I think we all go through that my vehicle just happened to be Taekwondo. So, I think people who are into memoirs, people who are obviously into sports and martial arts will get a lot out of it, because I do try to have the balance of enough about Taekwondo to make it interesting that the practitioners will recognize, but I don't want to overdo it. And I don't want to bore the lay people who don't know anything about it, or even the martial artists who you don't want overkill. So, I think we all love a good human interest story. That's why podcasts are so popular. That's why memoirs and biographies are so popular. And again, mental illness is so common in the United States and around the world, that I think a lot of people will be able to connect with my story, whether they're into martial arts or not. It's a story of overcoming a challenge. And we've all had to overcome challenges.
Melanie Gibson:
Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. Yeah, it's an interesting thing. You know, books by martial artists that involve martial arts, you know, are frequently looked at, by non-martial artists say, oh, I don't train that's not about me. And yet, I've never heard anyone say, you know, I can't read Charlotte's Web to my kids because they don't like spiders. You know, it's an aspect. It's an element of what we do of who we are. It's not the entirety, you know, we live a martial arts lifestyle. But that doesn't mean that there isn't overlap with, you know, the majority of people in the world as to what we do, you know, we still put our pants on one leg at a time. I haven't met anybody who doesn't.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Yeah, and it's what I like about memoirs is that I learned something about something different. Okay. My favorite book Hapa is a Memoir, and it's Into Thin Air by Jon Krakauer and it's about climbing Mount Everest. Never in my wildest dreams would I ever want to climb Mount Everest? No way. I don't even like walking up hills because it makes my legs sore. Absolutely not. I have read that book about seven or eight times. And I love it and that's what I like about memoirs because I've read books about swimming and acting and all kinds of things and it doesn't have to be those are things, I happen to like but okay with the Mount Everest thing. It's the storytelling it's the emotional journey that the author goes on is what's appealing to me and I happen to learn something new. And where can people get it?
Melanie Gibson:
People can get it anywhere books are sold. So, it's of course on Amazon and Barnes and Noble but I think it's on bookshop.com. It's wherever you prefer to buy books, you can get it in print form, if you like paperbacks, if you prefer e readers, you can get it on your Kindle or Nook or your whatever you use for your reader. So just look it up online and you can find it that the vendor of your choice and I think it's in bookshops as well. So however, people like to buy books, it's available. Okay, cool.
Jeremy Lesniak:
And I've got one more question for you. It's the one that I find myself asking a lot lately because I'm still trying to figure out the answer for myself to this question. If you could go back and talk to you know, 11/12-year-old you Before you stop training, and offer some advice, give some thoughts to, you know what the next chapters of life might look like and how to face them and anything? What would you say?
Melanie Gibson:
I would say it's going to be okay. Because I've always been a worrier, I still am. I worried a lot as a child. And I may also say, don't put so much stock in what other people think of you, especially since I knew I was going to leave my small town and go off to college and all that. But I said, keep your focus on what interests you, not what other people think of you keep following your passions. And that'll lead you to happiness. And eventually, after a very long and winding road, speaking of The Beatles, I've followed my passions, and I've built a happy life for myself. And I don't even regret some of the pain I've had to go through because it's all worked out. But I think that's the main thing I would say to 11-year-old Melanie is that it is going to be okay. And keep doing the things that you love to do. writing, reading, drawing, art, music, Taekwondo things that make you happy, because that's the most important thing.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Nice, well said. And so, what about some thoughts for the listeners? You know, we're going to wrap up here in a moment. What are your final words for them as we fade out? From this conversation, this great conversation.
Melanie Gibson:
I want to go back to something we talked about earlier is that martial arts never leave you. So, we all have busy lives. We've all gone through a lot collectively and personally. And martial arts can be your anchor, even if you have to put it down for a while. It's going to wait for you and for those who listen who either want to try a different martial art or they just want to get into it, do something new, do w Jon Krakauer hat's fun, we have to do so much adulting with our lives, don't spend a second of your precious spare time doing something that isn't fun. If it stops being fun. It's time to find a different martial art, Taekwondo has never stopped being fun for me.
Jeremy Lesniak:
Like I said, at the top, pretty relatable episode, right? There's a story that I think a lot of us can understand. Maybe not in entirety, but at least in part, and I love having guests on who make me not along. And well, frankly, that's most of them. So, thank you, Melanie, I appreciate you coming on had a lot of fun. Good luck with your book listeners. I hope you do. Check it out, pick up a copy. There's a copy on the way right now. I'm super pumped to read it. And yeah, let's have you back at some point in the future. If you want to go deeper, check out photos and links, you want the easiest place to grab that book, go to whistlekickmartialartsradio.com. Go to the show notes page for this episode, and click the links, check out the photos, see all the stuff that we've got going on there. One of the things that we also do is we have transcripts for our episodes, and they don't hit that the date of release, you know, take some time to get that going. And we're constantly going back and adding more of them in but if you're someone who prefers to read or wants to read along, those transcripts are there for free for you. If you're willing to support us and the work that we do, well, you've got some choices, you could leave a review by a book on Amazon help with the Patreon, patreon.com/whistlekick. And don't forget, if you're looking for the ideal strength and conditioning program for martial artists, I made it you can get it at whistlekick.com or the new website which I haven't even updated my notes here. Whistlekickprograms.com. I can update my notes. Don't forget the code PODCAST15, gets you 15% off everything at whistlekick.com. And if you've got guest suggestions, topic suggestions, general feedback, whatever it is, let me know Jeremy at whistlekick.com or social medias @whistlekick. And I appreciate you joining us today. So, until next time, train hard, smile and have a great day.